So is anyone's hometown NOT on fire?

[Zeener Diode]

Wish I could say it ain't mine.

https://www.kptv.com/news/photos-show-flames-chaos-destruction-after-march-for-george-floyd-in-portland/collection_ba64497c-a287-11ea-a788-ab525c3b83b3.html

[Glazer]

If you treat people like shit and make them eat it for long enough, then all you need is a spark to set the world ablaze. Can anyone honestly tell me that if anyone treated white people the way we treat brown people there wouldn't be blood in the streets.

[Sunny Daze]

Well, several hours ago the march down Beverly Blvd went by the house I grew up in. I guess I'm out of the running. :(

[Jaglavak]

We have a nice bed of coals going here too. (https://www.seattlepi.com/seattlenews/article/fires-rage-protests-curfew-over-george-floyd-death-15305868.php) I don't get it. Why the hell would a cop just whack a guy like that?

[sturmhauke]

My little suburb is fine, but I'm in the Bay Area. Pick a direction, there's probably some shit happening nearby.

[kaiwik]

Seattle is participating. :(

[3acres]

Nothing much reported on the news here. Some rocks thrown, fireworks lit, and shots fired reported in Ferguson. Some windows broken at the Ferguson PD. The fireworks and broken windows seem like the only thing out of the ordinary for a Saturday night.

Maybe we should tell our police to arrest people without killing or crippling them. We could even start small: no killing unarmed suspects, especially not after you've already handcuffed them.

[Sputnik]

They really need to get some minorities on the PD. It's not the whole answer, but it's a step in the right direction. Plus, that asshole cop that started all this had 18 friggen complaints against him. Come on, 18 and he still wore a badge? Something is really wrong with that police department that they allowed him to continue wearing badge.

Oh and, several stores looted, buildings burned in a San Diego community.

[What Exit?]

Newark had peaceful protests and the police handled it well apparently. It helps the Newark Public Safety Director can remember the 1967 riots in Newark apparently. It appears we had some other peaceful protests in other NJ cities.

On the other hand, NYC had issues, 345 arrests and 33 cops injured with 47 police vehicles damaged. It got stupid as hell. Many protesters went much too far and many cops went much too far.

[eleanorigby]

If you treat people like shit and make them eat it for long enough, then all you need is a spark to set the world ablaze. Can anyone honestly tell me that if anyone treated white people the way we treat brown people there wouldn't be blood in the streets.

This, but from my small slice of news, it seems the people causing the most mayhem appear to be white guys, bent on destruction, mayhem and chaos. Also, the police is SOME places seem to have taken this to be a license for brutality. A news photographer is now blind in one eye due to a rubber bullet.
Linda Tirado (https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/photojournalist-and-author-linda-tirado-blinded-in-minneapolis-protests/news-story/7768888fcd3fa7f66dac6e2d89f25dcc)

Chicago is also represented. Mayor Lightfoot has been smart and closed the Loop (put all the bridges up. Control infrastructure and you control society; this isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially in times like this).

I support the protestors. The rioters, white nationalists and others I deplore and hope the book gets thrown at them. The corrupt cops (and it is not all, not matter how tempting it is to say that) need dealing with as well. I'm pro-labor, but by God, the police union needs busting, badly. Stay safe. Stay well (I'm waiting on another surge of Covid19 after all this).

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Maybe we should tell our police to arrest people without killing or crippling them. We could even start small: no killing unarmed suspects, especially not after you've already handcuffed them.



Admittedly, it's not easy changing a bunch of police force policies, but it is possible - the Use of Force Project has looked at what works in terms of keeping the lethality of police/civilian encounters down, and they've got some useful information for anyone who wants to lobby their local authorities:


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49956079637_1bd2736fcc.jpg

http://useofforceproject.org/#analysis


Watched video last night of the 9-year-old the police maced here in Seattle. Seriously, why? :rigs:

[Detroit Hoser]

Lansing (what I consider my "hometown" at this point, and just a twenty minute drive from my cornfield) has been relatively quiet. There's a gathering planned today but word is it's one that was organized via FB by "some white girl" who also invited cops. When it started getting bigger than she wanted she bailed, and the rally was picked up as an "pro-police" rally. Reddit and FB are reporting that BLM has nothing to do with it and wants nothing to do with it. It's going to be a shitshow at 11am today.

Ninety minutes away in Detroit, my home base, crowds have been behaving relatively well. There was a shooting two night ago during a protest, but it was deemed a drive-by with no connection to the protest, other than place and time.

An hour to the west, on the other hand, is Grand Rapids, and apparently shit hit the fan there last night. If they go into the affluent suburbs of GR and do something horrifying to Betsy DeVos' property, they could make two points with one brick, if you know what I mean. It's just a suggestion.

[Ludovic]

Nothing either in the Melbourne area nor in the Dunkirk-Fredonia area where I grew up. Orlando, ironically, has a lot of protests but seems to be peaceful for now. I say ironically because Derek Chauvin has a townhome there and there were protests there but they did not escalate, and you'd think that in a relative sense, there'd be more legitimate reason to torch it than a lot of the other destruction going on. I, unlike others, don't "understand" why people would attack random innocent people's property just because they're so angry, whereas if they attacked his home, I wouldn't agree with it since it's attached to others, but I would understand.

But from what I can tell there isn't either property violence or police brutality on the scale of other places in Orlando.

Maybe it is because Florida is so out of the way that the various agitator groups can't efficiently travel there. I know that's the case for concert tours, who often skip Florida, so maybe the Anarchist Tour also skips Florida.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

But from what I can tell there isn't either property violence or police brutality on the scale of other places in Orlando.



We should count our blessings while it lasts - the Orlando Police Department is pretty high in the rankings of cities where police kill civilians (https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/), with 13 people killed by police in the years 2013-2016

By comparison, Buffalo, NY has a higher general crime rate and a similar-size population, but no police killing of civilians in 2013-2016

Hopefully we won't go from looking at protestors/journalists who have lost an eye to those who have died.

[Sputnik]

2 examples of people getting fucking crazy.

A 20-year-old woman accused of hurling a fire bomb at Denver police ... a protest last week faces two counts of attempted murder and other charges

And

An upstate New York woman now faces federal charges for allegedly firebombing a police vehicle in Brooklyn, as protests across the country grow increasingly violent following the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis nearly a week ago.
Samantha Shader, 27, of Catskill, already had been charged with four counts of attempted murder, as well as attempted arson, assault, reckless endangerment and criminal possession of a weapon.

This is insane. People, take a deep breath.

[Cochrane]

I wish I could say the protests in Tucson have been peaceful. Rioting, smashed windows. No fires yet, thankfully. I can't say I support the police, since their ill behavior has sparked all of this. I lay the blame on Derek Chauvin and all of the police officers who act with callous disregard for people's lives.

[BJMoose]

A "rally" in Wichita went off peaceably.

[What Exit?]

Looking at some of these protests, too many protesters not wearing masks and not keeping social distance. There is still a pandemic going on. I support the protests but not the violence from either side and keep safe from COVID while you're protesting.

What a fucking fucked up time we're living in!

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

My life is now poorer and sadder that I know who the hell Jake Paul is https://www.tmz.com/2020/05/31/jake-paul-looting-tear-gassed-scottsdale-arizona-mall/

[SmartAleq]

That Portland is going crazy is not all that hard to comprehend--400,000 Oregonians have lost their jobs in the past couple months and the overload completely and utterly crashed the Employment Department's outdated and fucked up systems so there are hundreds of thousands of people locked down, scared of a pandemic and not getting a fucking dime of unemployment, let alone the federal bump. People are getting letter after letter telling them they have to "restart their claim" and if they dispute it the number they're told to call--and I am NOT making this up--is "000-000-0000." The head of the Employment Department spent the day yesterday sitting in front of the state legislature explaining why this is happening, especially since there's 82 million dollars of federal money sitting in a trust account that was earmarked for us in 2009 to FIX said shitty computer system. She hasn't even figured out that the claims specialists need to be allowed to work from home, says they're "exploring" that possibility. She needs to be fired out of a cannon into the fucking sun.

So we have hundreds of thousands of desperate people, with a three month "moratorium" on evictions but the landlords are promising everyone that if their rent is a day late they'll be getting their eviction notice on day 91 when the moratorium expires. They haven't gotten a penny of the money they're owed. They are one short step away from homelessness and can't afford food. Gee, what a big fat shockeroo that they're breaking into high end stores and looting the fuck out of them and what a further shockeroo that Craigslist is already full of ads for said high end items for sale. Desperate people do desperate things and I'm not gonna be pissed at them for "looting" when the oligarchy has been briskly stealing from everyone else--up to and including the TRILLIONS they just pocketed from the federal government for the COVID situation, leaving us regular people to try to function on the merest pittance of their leavings, what amounts to the sofa change in those giveaway bills. This is just Main Street taking back a little bit of what Wall Street has taken from them and I for one don't feel even the least bit of empathy for those soulless fucks in their multi million dollar mansions wringing their hands over dips in the stock market that represent the very real human tragedy of real people being curb stomped by the elites. Then the elites sit there and do nothing when one of their paid enforcement goons kills a man in cold blood--Amy Klobuchar, short listed for VP on the Dem ticket declined to prosecute that fucking cop for a PREVIOUS extrajudicial murder and is only upset that cops are getting hurt in the mess they caused. Fuck her, fuck the oligarchy, fuck the lot of them--we told them if they fucked around they'd find out and here it is, the bill is come due and true to form the elites don't think they should pay for what they've broken. If my fucking shoulders didn't hurt so bad I'd be out there stringing those fucks up myself.

[Jaglavak]

Careful there Hanover. (https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/5/29/21274828/drone-minneapolis-protests-predator-surveillance-police) Us dutiful taxpayers have spent 6 trillion in the last 20 years equipping and training our military to deal with just such a situation. And they've gotten pretty damn good at it too. And as usual, the people getting hurt by the riots are not the ones who deserve it. (https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-30/stores-immigrants-downtown-la-looting-vandalism)

[Rock]

There was a small peaceful protest in Albuquerque last night. A couple of nights ago there was a larger one but still only around 400 people. It shut down Central Avenue (the main drag through downtown) but there was no violence.

[sturmhauke]

Gee, what a big fat shockeroo that they're breaking into high end stores and looting the fuck out of them and what a further shockeroo that Craigslist is already full of ads for said high end items for sale. Desperate people do desperate things and I'm not gonna be pissed at them for "looting" when the oligarchy has been briskly stealing from everyone else--up to and including the TRILLIONS they just pocketed from the federal government for the COVID situation, leaving us regular people to try to function on the merest pittance of their leavings, what amounts to the sofa change in those giveaway bills.

Protestors Criticized For Looting Businesses Without Forming Private Equity Firm First (https://www.theonion.com/protestors-criticized-for-looting-businesses-without-fo-1843735351)

[JackieLikesVariety]

geez, Sturm, that's too true to be funny.

and, Smartie, didn't the head of unemployment get fired?

I just got my application for unemployment done yesterday. now I have to file the weekly thing.

so I'm guessing I won't be getting doodily anytime soon. if ever.

on the bright side, both Fred Meyer and Safeway are hiring. I see less than half the customers are wearing masks so that's right where I want to be. :rigs:

[SmartAleq]

No she did not, and she's worse than useless. Ron Wyden is outright calling for her resignation and Ron Wyden does NOT do that. He's a computer and internet kinda guy though and I bet this level of incompetence and utter fail in his state is making him see red.

This is the shitshow we're dealing with (https://www.wweek.com/news/2020/05/30/lawmakers-grill-employment-department-director-kay-erickson-in-rare-saturday-hearing/). Read it and weep.

[Jaglavak]

At that rate they should have all the current applications processed by Thanksgiving. Surely the peasants can get by on last year's potatoes and leeks for that long.

[What Exit?]

At that rate they should have all the current applications processed by Thanksgiving. Surely the peasants can get by on last year's potatoes and leeks for that long.

That does make an awesome soup you know.

[Jaglavak]

Yeah, if you've got some. (https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-05-30/us-food-prices-see-historic-jump-and-are-likely-to-stay-high)

U.S. food prices see a historic jump and are likely to stay high

I hope you like rice and beans too. Because pretty soon a lot of folks will be enjoying a cuisine of whatever is being handed out from the back of a National Guard food truck.

[What Exit?]

Yeah, if you've got some. (https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-05-30/us-food-prices-see-historic-jump-and-are-likely-to-stay-high)

U.S. food prices see a historic jump and are likely to stay high

I hope you like rice and beans too. Because pretty soon a lot of folks will be enjoying a cuisine of whatever is being handed out from the back of a National Guard food truck.

LA Times is paywall. What percent did it jack up?

[Sputnik]

LA Times is paywall. What percent did it jack up?



The Labor Department reports that the 2.6% jump in April food prices was the largest monthly increase in 46 years. Prices for meats, poultry, fish and eggs increased the most, rising 4.3%. Although the 2.9% jump in cereals and bakery products wasn’t as steep, it was still the largest increase the agency has recorded.

Dairy and related products, and fruits and vegetables increased by 1.5% in April.

From the article.

[Jaglavak]

Oops, sorry bout that.

Some of it was from people stocking up, and also a lot more people are cooking at home. Prices are not expected to continue rising this fast, but added costs to producers and processers will have to be passed along at some point. So don't expect a return to last year's prices. Most food production capacity is back up and running, and suppliers do not anticipate any major shortages going forward. Unless there is a new outbreak requiring another shutdown, in which case here we go again.

Bottom line; nobody is going to starve in this country due to lack of food. But with 41 million people out of work, some could get mighty skinny due to ending up on the wrong side of the glass.

[Sputnik]

From CNN Curfews as of 5/31/2020

Curfews:

▪California: Los Angeles County, San Francisco
▪Colorado: Denver
▪Florida: Miami, Orange County
▪Georgia: Atlanta
▪Illinois: Chicago
▪Kentucky: Louisville
▪Michigan: Detroit
▪Minnesota: Minneapolis, St. Paul
▪Ohio: Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton
▪Oregon: Portland
▪Pennsylvania: Philadelphia, Pittsburgh
▪South Carolina: Charleston
▪Tennessee: Nashville
▪Texas: Dallas
▪Utah: Salt Lake City
▪Wisconsin: Milwaukee

[C2H5OH]

So is anyone's hometown NOT on fire?

Mine ain't. It's utterly Corona-normal. In other words, pretty dead. But it's a small 20k-population town, not a large city. The nearest large city (Syracuse) had a small riot last night, though (10 arrests, no apparent injuries), and has an 8pm curfew tonight. I'm glad I haven't lived there for over 25 years.

[Jaglavak]

This is the shitshow we're dealing with (https://www.wweek.com/news/2020/05/30/lawmakers-grill-employment-department-director-kay-erickson-in-rare-saturday-hearing/). Read it and weep.

Aaaand wha-chingggg!

Gov. Kate Brown Fires Oregon Employment Department Director (https://www.wweek.com/news/state/2020/05/31/gov-kate-brown-fires-oregon-employment-department-director/)

[3acres]

This is the shitshow we're dealing with (https://www.wweek.com/news/2020/05/30/lawmakers-grill-employment-department-director-kay-erickson-in-rare-saturday-hearing/). Read it and weep.

Aaaand wha-chingggg!

Gov. Kate Brown Fires Oregon Employment Department Director (https://www.wweek.com/news/state/2020/05/31/gov-kate-brown-fires-oregon-employment-department-director/)

Poor Mr. Gerstenfeld must feel like Shadrach facing the furnace.

[Jaglavak]

Can you say, early retirement? If that guy has a lick of sense he'll load up the camper and be trail dust by tomorrow morning.

[Sputnik]

The cop who started all this is on suicide watch. There's an idea for saving the tax payers a ton of money.

[stormie]

OK, San Francisco has a curfew. The daytime protests were neither large nor violent, yet there was a huge police presence. I would call it excessive. There was a helicopter circling my neighborhood during the day. Warren went for a walk at 1 am and all was quiet in my neighborhood.

It was the street with the jewelers and designer goods that was hit. Unlike Watts or the post-Juice riots police or white people were not targeted, places where a lot of black people lived were not involved. We're not talking sudden uncontrollable expression of frustration and anger. Organized thieves and straight-up lovers of violence taking advantage of ire over yet another example of a disgrace to our society is disgusting. It gives people who want it an excuse to dismiss the protesters.

The Chron reported that witness "Retired Marine Frank Asaro said the looting was way more precise than it seemed in the aftermath. He watched as vans and trucks double-parked on Market Street and waited for people to make multiple trips into businesses to shuttle stolen goods into the waiting vehicles." The businesses have been closed since the beginning of the shut-down. Market Street has been closed to cars since before then. Between these two there was no traffic to slow down a getaway, lots of chaos, and not many police - a perfect situation for organized thieves with trucks.

In re: the curfew: if Warren wants to pee at 3 am, we're goin' out.

[3acres]

The cop who started all this is on suicide watch. There's an idea for saving the tax payers a ton of money.

They need to bring in the guys who were watching Epstein.

[stormie]

The cop who started all this is on suicide watch. You know what would help? If he plead guilty at a quickly-convened trial in which the press was welcomed, preceded by his courthouse statement of guilt, inappropriate behavior, and heartfelt regret, introduced by the Chief of Police condemning the original action and approving the guilty plea.

[Helena]

Arresting the three cops who were complicit would help.

I don't want Chauvin to be allowed to commit suicide. I want him to feel what he did and suffer the consequences for a long time.

[Cochrane]

Arresting the three cops who were complicit would help.

I don't want Chauvin to be allowed to commit suicide. I want him to feel what he did and suffer the consequences for a long time.

He lost his job, his wife is divorcing him, and he's probably going to lose his freedom. But that's not even close to what George Floyd's family is dealing with. But I do hope he feels even some small amount of remorse for what he did and what this country's going through right now.

[Sputnik]

I'm hoping we have three days of torrential rain.

[Dragonlady]

Arresting the three cops who were complicit would help.

I don't want Chauvin to be allowed to commit suicide. I want him to feel what he did and suffer the consequences for a long time.

He lost his job, his wife is divorcing him, and he's probably going to lose his freedom. But that's not even close to what George Floyd's family is dealing with. But I do hope he feels even some small amount of remorse for what he did and what this country's going through right now.

I'm betting the only sorrow he feels is for himself. He's most likely convinced himself that he will be exonerated (since he always has been before) or given a slap on the wrist (just to make it look good) because he REALLY didn't do anything all that bad. I doubt he will EVER see what the rest of us do.

And why aren't the other officers that were on scene in jail, too? If they had been committing a robbery where someone died, ALL OF THEM would have been charged with murder.

[SmartAleq]

This is the shitshow we're dealing with (https://www.wweek.com/news/2020/05/30/lawmakers-grill-employment-department-director-kay-erickson-in-rare-saturday-hearing/). Read it and weep.

Aaaand wha-chingggg!

Gov. Kate Brown Fires Oregon Employment Department Director (https://www.wweek.com/news/state/2020/05/31/gov-kate-brown-fires-oregon-employment-department-director/)

GOOD! It's amazing what it takes to get Comcast Kate off her ass and doing something--she's a term limited lame duck so it's pretty difficult to spur her into doing anything but the bare minimum. Some governors in her position would go balls to the wall making a splash since reelection isn't an option but not her. She's a go along-get along type and definitely not what we need these days. Here's hoping the senators will keep kicking her ass for the next couple of years.

[Zeener Diode]

The cop who started all this is on suicide watch. There's an idea for saving the tax payers a ton of money.

They need to bring in the guys who were watching Epstein.

You'll have to wake them up first.

[Glazer]

I love this guy's take on things.

OohKtPH0Bs4

[Shmiogenes]

I live in St. Paul and work in Minneapolis, so....

[SmartAleq]

How are you managing to type while hiding under the bed? Cuz that's where I'd be--your cops are way outta control mang.

[hilarity n. suze]

I love this guy's take on things.

OohKtPH0Bs4

Yeah, I like that guy, too. Except for one thing, I think the cops DO perceive journalists as a threat. They're not afraid the journalists are going to commit violence. They're afraid the journalists are going to tell the truth.

[hilarity n. suze]

A few years ago I read (or saw?) an article on the Camden NJ police department. What I remember is that they disbanded the entire thing and started over, with a lot of community input. And the result is that even members of minority groups in Camden think the police are doing a fine job. Serving and protecting.

Like I said, this was years ago and it was an experimental thing. So I googled "Camden police department" and the first hit I got was, "Camden police join protests"

Yeah. Instead of fighting the protesters, they walked alongside them and also protested. And it was peaceful. (Says the internet anyhow.)

[Derleth]

Nothing in Missoula, which kind of surprises me: We're a liberal college town, so we have protests for things like climate change, but so far we haven't had any sympathy protests against police brutality.

[Rat Diva]

There have been a lot of peaceful protests around here; no arrests, no violence. We're too far from the big cities for the destructive behavior to catch on, and the small cities aren't big enough to matter. But only about half the people seem to be wearing masks. A new spike in cases is the last thing anyone needs.

I see footage of stores and restaurants being looted and burned, and it makes me sad. Places like that have been hammered bad enough by COVID already, and those are employees who now don't have jobs to go back to, business owners losing their livelihoods.

Then I see the footage like the two NYPD vehicles running into crowds of people and the police coordinator trying to soft soap it by basically saying "yeah, well, they started it by blocking the way" and I understand the urge to burn the world.

Fuck.

[3acres]

2Cm7UMpFo0o

[Solfy]

I cannot remember a time in my life when there haven't been problems with racists cops doing horrible, racist things, and people protesting, and the peaceful protests devolving into rioting and looting, and society saying tsk tsk and something should be done and isn't that a shame. Then nothing happens, it all goes quiet, and a couple years later the cycle repeats.

What's it going to take to break the cycle?

See also: mass shootings (was going to say school shootings, but they're not just for classrooms anymore!).

Is America great again yet?

[Cochrane]

There is a statewide curfew in place here in Arizona now, 8:00 PM - 5:00 AM.

[Sputnik]

Oak Park Heights Prison is Derek Chauvin new home pending trial. It's apparently the most secure prison in Minnesota. He was moved not because he was an escape risk, but because they felt he was a target for other inmates. How to become the most hated man in American in 8 minutes & 40 seconds.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

There is a statewide curfew in place here in Arizona now, 8:00 PM - 5:00 AM.

Statewide? Doesn't that seem like a bit of an overreaction? Arizona's a big state, and it doesn't really make sense for people in Bisbee to be under curfew if there are demonstrations in Phoenix and Tucson...

Of course, making sense of things is not really high on a lot of politicians' priority lists right now. :(

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Apparently police and National Guard in Louisville KY shot and killed a restaurant owner in a crowd last night :(

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/my-son-didn-t-hurt-nobody-david-mcatee-louisville-business-owner-killed-by-authorities/ar-BB14TbAU

[sturmhauke]

My little suburb is fine, but I'm in the Bay Area. Pick a direction, there's probably some shit happening nearby.

Well, this didn't last. There were several incidents of looting yesterday, and a curfew has been put in place.

[Sputnik]

Once again, trump proves how tone deaf he is.

Trump signaled the move in a call with governors earlier Monday in which he promised a demonstration of "total domination" in Washington, as he railed at the state leaders for looking "weak" and pushed them to call in the National Guard to "dominate" protesters and wished there was an "occupying force" in cities across America.

"Washington, they had large groups, very large groups. ... But Washington was under great control," Trump said. "But we're going to have it under much more control. We're pouring in -- we're going to pull in thousands of people."

He's sending in active duty military personnel to protect his ass.

Listen rioters, if you must destroy things, how about some trump properties?

[stormie]

It depends on the person, of course.

Today there are fewer people out and they are all wearing masks. Is this a redirection of fear? I'm good with it, but people make my head ache.

[3acres]

Trump signaled the move in a call with governors earlier Monday in which he promised a demonstration of "total domination" in Washington, as he railed at the state leaders for looking "weak" and pushed them to call in the National Guard to "dominate" protesters and wished there was an "occupying force" in cities across America.

"Washington, they had large groups, very large groups. ... But Washington was under great control," Trump said. "But we're going to have it under much more control. We're pouring in -- we're going to pull in thousands of people."


Pretty tough talk for a fat baby hiding in his bunker.

[Glazer]

9VsCDqCy_l4

[Larry Borgia]

My neighborhood has been mostly spared so far. Someone tried to break into the 7-11 but it looks like that was just a regular crime. I figure it's only a matter of time though, unless TPTB get things under control. I know a lot of the business owners here. They're all, without exception, really good people. They don't deserve this crap. They've had a rough year with COVID and now they have to put up with these knuckleheads. It's not just property damage, these are real people, including the staff, whose livelihoods are on the line.

[Glazer]

The people that have been getting murdered in the streets by those who are tasked with protecting them are real people too.

[Baker]

Downtown, on the top of the local electrical utility building, there is a falcon nesting box, with two cameras. I turned in to watch the young biirds and thought I could hear voices. I thought maybe folks were getting ready for the annual banding, but no, pretty soon I could hear voices chanting, from twelve stories up. So I turned to the website of one of our TV stations, and there was some kind of a march down the main street, to a new social park. Folks seemed pretty calm, hope it stays that way. I'll watch the news later.

[Radical Edward]

There were peaceful protests in my town this weekend, and there was a rally at a neighboring town's court house tonight. No violence. However, there are rumors going around that there are riots happening in the downtown areas. There wasn't shit happening when I drove through there around 4pm. Local PD's Facebook page says nothing is happening and people should stop spreading rumors. I figure it's just folks trying to start some shit where there ain't no shit.

My granddad lives in Jacksonville, FL and there were riots there Saturday night. He and his friends and family are ok.

[SmartAleq]

The people that have been getting murdered in the streets by those who are tasked with protecting them are real people too.

Not to mention all the real people who're getting maced, tased, kicked, punched, shoved, shot with rubber bullets, paint cans and directly aimed tear gas canisters by cops in full riot gear. People keep piously intoning that "violence is never the answer" while being perfectly fine with cops employing all kinds of vicious violence against protesters. They're running people down with cars and fucking horses and siccing K9s on people lying on the ground. Fuck the police, seriously. Protesters are hurting some property--cops are hurting and killing actual people. Somehow that basic fact keeps getting lost in the rhetoric. Sometime very soon a bunch of out of control cops are going to open fire on the wrong front porch and the pissed off libertarian 2A enthusiast who lives there is going to take a dim view of this police overreach and is going to open up on those cops with the six AR-15s with the hundred round magazines he has stashed upstairs and then there'll be fireworks. When the competing steroid cases go head to head it's gonna be some real fun yo. :shrug:

[Radical Edward]

I hate to be like this, but every once in a while, violence is the only answer. There have been non-violent protests for years that have clearly not accomplished a goddamned thing.

[BJMoose]

Apparently police and National Guard in Louisville KY shot and killed a restaurant owner in a crowd last night :(

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/my-son-didn-t-hurt-nobody-david-mcatee-louisville-business-owner-killed-by-authorities/ar-BB14TbAU


The story, unconfirmed at present, is that law enforcement was returning fire.

[Larry Borgia]

The people that have been getting murdered in the streets by those who are tasked with protecting them are real people too.

How the fuck are my friends responsible? Have they murdered anyone? Done anything wrong?

Are you saying that if I get robbed it's reasonable for me to rob you?

Fuck all this bullshit.

[Katriona]

Apparently police and National Guard in Louisville KY shot and killed a restaurant owner in a crowd last night :(

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/my-son-didn-t-hurt-nobody-david-mcatee-louisville-business-owner-killed-by-authorities/ar-BB14TbAU


The story, unconfirmed at present, is that law enforcement was returning fire.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/01/867281529/louisville-police-chief-fired-after-black-man-is-shot-to-death

They turned off their body cams.

[Shmiogenes]

How are you managing to type while hiding under the bed? Cuz that's where I'd be--your cops are way outta control mang.

I work in those neighborhoods. I'm right out in the teeth of it every day. I think it's probably not as chaotic as the media is making it look. I went to Chicago and 38th today. The site of the murder. I took a lot of pictures. People had tables set up to donate food. I haven't personally seen protesters being violent. I haven't seen cops being violent either.

We do have fucking nazis here trying to infiltrate the protestsm throw fire bombs and generally try bto discredit the protests. A whole bunch of fake ANTIFA twitter pages got taken down today. Fuckwads pretending to be ANTIFA were encouraging people to "go into the whiye hoods and take what's ours." These are sick people, these 4chan red hat incels. It shgows how stupid they are that they actually think people are going to see that shit and actually respond to. They think they're maniplating people. They think theyr'e puppet masters. They don't seem to realize that THEY are the stupid ones and that this "ANTIFA" boogeyman they've invented doesn't actually exist, is not a real movement and has no influence. They forget that they are the ones who made this shit up in the first place.

[BJMoose]

Oh, great.

And they promptly relieved the police chief, who was already under some sort of cloud. This one is going to get messy.

[Shmiogenes]

Oak Park Heights Prison is Derek Chauvin new home pending trial. It's apparently the most secure prison in Minnesota. He was moved not because he was an escape risk, but because they felt he was a target for other inmates. How to become the most hated man in American in 8 minutes & 40 seconds.

His wife filed for dissolution the day after the killing too. Apparently he's on suicide watch.

Chances are, he would walk on the current charges, though.

http://www.citypages.com/news/experts-derek-chauvin-will-likely-beat-third-degree-murder-charge/570918851

Luckily, Minnesota AG, Keith Ellison (that guy who was the first Muslim in Congress) has now taken over the case and will probably up the charges and charge the others as well. The Minneapolis DA was dragging his feet, doing as little as he thought he could get away with. 3rd Degree murder is a fake charge in a way because it requires that the offender be a danger to "more than one person." This is the same trick that was used by the same POS Da to get Philando's killer acquitted. 3rd Degree murder also disallows anyone being charged as an accomplice, which gives the DA an excuse not to charge the other three. This kind of shit usually works with the public because all they see is "murder charges," but absolutely nobody is buying it this time and the Governor basically said, "sit the fuck down, you're not going to cockblock us with this bullshit this time.

I think it will probably end up being Murder 2. A lot of people want Murder 1, but that's really hard to convict on without proving premeditation or intent. Felony murder might be a possibility. Federal civil rights charges are also a possibility, but Trump would just pardon him anyway.

[Shmiogenes]

Apparently police and National Guard in Louisville KY shot and killed a restaurant owner in a crowd last night :(

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/my-son-didn-t-hurt-nobody-david-mcatee-louisville-business-owner-killed-by-authorities/ar-BB14TbAU


The story, unconfirmed at present, is that law enforcement was returning fire.

Sortry, but I no longer believe a word law enforcement says. They also tried to say George Floyd was resisting arrest before the videos came out. I assume all cops are lying at all times until proven otherwise.

[BJMoose]

I understand where you are coming from, but this is the worst possible time to jump to conclusions. Though most people will.

[Glazer]

The people that have been getting murdered in the streets by those who are tasked with protecting them are real people too.

How the fuck are my friends responsible? Have they murdered anyone? Done anything wrong?

Are you saying that if I get robbed it's reasonable for me to rob you?

Fuck all this bullshit.

No I'm saying we treat people like people to begin with. There wouldn't be any protests peaceful violent or otherwise if we held our police to the same standards as we do our military inside war zones.

[Larry Borgia]

Yeah, I don't think most of the people doing the property destruction give a shit about George Floyd or anything else. They may be Black Block, they may be neo-nazi infiltrators, they may just be young dudes who like to fuck shit up and steal things, I dunno. But all they're about is wrecking shit.

I'm bowing out. I'm gonna drink whiskey and play music loud enough to drown out the helicopters.

[Shmiogenes]

I know it's not the people who live in those neighborhoods who are doing it. I'm in them every day. Those people are extremely upset about the damaged stores. others are afraid. There are a lot of buildings with handwritten signs on them saying "PEOPLE LIVE HERE, DON"T BURN." They're under siege. I keep seeing stuff like "people are destroying their own neighborhoods." No they aren't. They HATE this. That's victim blaming and an attempt to make the victims look self-destructive and stupid.

[Larry Borgia]

I know it's not the people who live in those neighborhoods who are doing it. I'm in them every day. Those people are extremely upset about the damaged stores. others are afraid. There are a lot of buildings with handwritten signs on them saying "PEOPLE LIVE HERE, DON"T BURN." They're under siege. I keep seeing stuff like "people are destroying their own neighborhoods." No they aren't. They HATE this. That's victim blaming and an attempt to make the victims look self-destructive and stupid.

Yes, exactly. Thank you.

[Larry Borgia]

I'm bowing out. I'm gonna drink whiskey and play music loud enough to drown out the helicopters.Fucking Blackhawk helicopters.

[jali]

I'm crying again; this time because I love you guys.
I appreciate the responses in this thread.

Thank you. From my heart, thank you.

I live on the main street where the rioting began (Market Street) after the protesters were done. I live in an apartment building in Wilmington, DE.

The damages done by the opportunists, to the stores and restaurants in the neighborhood, are significant, but my car is safe.

I stayed inside and I didn't check for my car until yesterday evening.

[Glazer]

Please stay safe. We love you.

[SmartAleq]

Yes, plz, what Glazer said! :heart: :hug:

[Rat Diva]

Please stay safe. We love you.

Glazer is wise, and probably the smartest of us all for living out in the middle of nowhere.

{{jali}}

[Detroit Hoser]

I'm crying again; this time because I love you guys.
I appreciate the responses in this thread.

Thank you. From my heart, thank you.

I live on the main street where the rioting began (Market Street) after the protesters were done. I live in an apartment building in Wilmington, DE.

The damages done by the opportunists, to the stores and restaurants in the neighborhood, are significant, but my car is safe.

I stayed inside and I didn't check for my car until yesterday evening.

In non-horrific times, it sounds like a really nice place to live, right near stores and restaurants. I'm so sorry your home is being battered, Jali. :heart:

[Rock]

Hang in there, jali.

After a small peaceful demonstration on Saturday night in Albuquerque there was a larger, but still peaceful, demonstration on Sunday night. But hours later and into Monday morning some violence broke out. Relatively speaking it was minor stuff, windows broken and a few fires started- and clearly not caused by the same people who were demonstrating earlier, who had mostly dispersed and gone home. Last night was another demonstration and it too was peaceful.

[Solfy]

Eldest was upset yesterday. Her friends keep insisting that violence is necessary, and that to say otherwise is to side with the police. She's not backing down from her opinion that the violence is not as productive as it is harmful to innocent parties, and that it doesn't have to be an either/or thing. We're proud of her for sticking to her convictions and thinking for herself when it would be easy to go along with her peers.

[JackieLikesVariety]

I live on the main street where the rioting began (Market Street) after the protesters were done. I live in an apartment building in Wilmington, DE.



I hope you and your car and everyone you know continue to be ok. :hug:

[Sputnik]

Yeah Jali, stay on the safe side of today's insanity. IE, hide here with us.

Otherwise, I think we'll be okay. Pres Bumnugget waived a Bible at us yesterday signaling the religious right that he had everything under control, except for the virus, the unemployment, the rioting, the rogue cops, the fake press, Russian interference, Biden's meteoric rise in the polls, and that kid of his who looks like a werewolf.

[Detroit Hoser]

In non-horrific times, it sounds like a really nice place to live, right near stores and restaurants. I'm so sorry your home is being battered, Jali. :heart:

Okay, this isn't really what I wanted to say. But I don't know how to say what I'm really feeling. I'm a clueless old white woman who grew up in a white suburb with racist parents, and I still live in a mostly white, conservativeracist county. I've never experienced blatant discrimination like someone with dark skin does, not even with the bigotry I've felt as a lesbian. When I get pulled over, I fear the cost of the ticket on my wallet, not the destruction of bullets on my flesh, just because I'm a white woman. And my heart is ripping out of my chest with grief that black people have to try to navigate the world with this utter bullshit. I'm sorry our world is so fucked up, and that you have to suffer because of it. It's wrong, it's wrong, it's so fucking wrong.

I don't know what to do to make it stop. I don't know how to help aside from trying to not be part of the problem.

I want to hug you, Jali, and tell you that I'll share your burden, all of it, but not only is that physically impossible, it kind of makes you She Who Represents All Black People in Society, and that's not fair to you. So essentially, I kinda feel like no matter what I do, I'm going to say the exact wrong thing. And all I want to do is show love, and show that I want to help make it better.

So I'm just going to say that I love you and I'm sorry our world is full of hate.

Also, the chickens miss you. :heart:

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Eldest was upset yesterday. Her friends keep insisting that violence is necessary, and that to say otherwise is to side with the police. She's not backing down from her opinion that the violence is not as productive as it is harmful to innocent parties, and that it doesn't have to be an either/or thing. We're proud of her for sticking to her convictions and thinking for herself when it would be easy to go along with her peers.


She sounds like she's got her head on right. The last thing we need is more violence. There are plenty of people who aren't right in the head about that, and they'll keep stirring up shit as long as the rest of us let them. Hell of a lot of the violence seems to be started by police angry at the fact that protestors exist or something.

They forget that these neighbors in the protest will still demand justice in the end, and that police actions and budgets will be examined in this light, not in the light of some Mayberry scenario that only exists in the imagination.

[C2H5OH]

Apparently police and National Guard in Louisville KY shot and killed a restaurant owner in a crowd last night :(

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/my-son-didn-t-hurt-nobody-david-mcatee-louisville-business-owner-killed-by-authorities/ar-BB14TbAU


The story, unconfirmed at present, is that law enforcement was returning fire.

Returning fire as an excuse only works when the one they hit is the one doing the firing. Accounts so far are that the guy that was killed was not the shooter. Assuming there really was a 'shooter'.

[SmartAleq]

They keep telling us we need to accede to a complete surveillance state to make us safer and I'm starting to agree. All cops need to have body cams on at all times while on duty and turning off the cam for anything other than bathroom breaks and meals while on duty should be cause for disciplinary action leading to being fired in a swift escalation. For some reason that's the only form of surveillance I agree would make me feel safer.

[Jaglavak]

Such interesting times we live in. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepfake)

[Sunny Daze]

They keep telling us we need to accede to a complete surveillance state to make us safer and I'm starting to agree. All cops need to have body cams on at all times while on duty and turning off the cam for anything other than bathroom breaks and meals while on duty should be cause for disciplinary action leading to being fired in a swift escalation. For some reason that's the only form of surveillance I agree would make me feel safer.

Leave them on for eating too. :rigs:

Rioting Looting has spread out into the East Bay. We have a pattern now of peaceful protests during the day, accompanied by meetings with the police. Protestors disperse, it gets dark out, and the looters show up. The whole county is under curfew 8pm to 5am until further notice.

I thought I was stressed out with the COVID situation, but I've been educated. This is worse.

[SmartAleq]

Livestream each cop cam to a cloud server so they can be watched real time by anyone who's interested, just like scanner traffic is mirrored online. We're taxpayers, we have the right to transparency when it comes to our employees. Shit, as a call center employee every call I had was recorded and there were cameras all over the building to be in compliance with credit card information so we were on view all day long--why should cops be exempt? Maybe some accountability would improve their performance.

[Larry Borgia]

I'm bowing out. I'm gonna drink whiskey and play music loud enough to drown out the helicopters.Fucking Blackhawk helicopters.
Jesus, I don't even remember typing this. It turns out it wasn't a Blackhawk after all, some other military helicopter.

Also, this happened. Police trying to herd and corral protesters, when some good Samaritans let them all into their homes.

https://dcist.com/story/20/06/02/dupont-dc-home-protest-rahul-dubey/?fbclid=IwAR0k8LXv4wMMjlD9iyBulTtwStEwVOrBfmDiXmFn G-cfCn3hCgD-ignehg4

[stormie]

I <3 you Jali.

To make social change it's important to shock. Consider the press coverage of the recent protests and violence. I sure don't know about many places - LA, for example - but the violence here was not carried out by the daylight protesters. Remarkably, the boring daylight protesters got a heck of a lot less press coverage than opportunistic break-ins and a photo of a burning dumpster. Burning. Dumpster. If that's anyone's definition of violence and destruction anyone had better open their damned eyes. That level of . . .er, attention-getting action is reasonable. It's shocking, but less destructive than, say, bears.

It seems most actual race-related violence comes from two sides: decisions based on racism and fear whose roots are socially supported, and anger and frustration that overwhelms many people in the community. There are small violent groups, which are more notorious than their actions deserve. These groups polarize; doing little good to their cause and providing their opponents to cite their actions over and over.

I heard an interview with one of the original Montgomery marchers. The interviewer kept wanting her to say that things had brightened up considerably, but she wouldn't. She said she was disappointed. I am too. I genuinely believed institutionalized racism would go the way of smallpox by the turn of this century. I try to maintain belief - an unfounded view based on hope rather than fact. I'll just leave this here. (https://www.azquotes.com/author/14881-Desmond_Tutu)

[Sputnik]

Fucking Blackhawk helicopters.
Jesus, I don't even remember typing this. It turns out it wasn't a Blackhawk after all, some other military helicopter.

Also, this ([URL="https://dcist.com/story/20/06/02/dupont-dc-home-protest-rahul-dubey/?fbclid=IwAR0k8LXv4wMMjlD9iyBulTtwStEwVOrBfmDiXmFn G-cfCn3hCgD-ignehg4) happened. Police trying to herd and corral protestors, when some good Samaritans let them all into their homes.

Link is not working Larry.

[Larry Borgia]

Jesus, I don't even remember typing this. It turns out it wasn't a Blackhawk after all, some other military helicopter.

Also, this ([URL="https://dcist.com/story/20/06/02/dupont-dc-home-protest-rahul-dubey/?fbclid=IwAR0k8LXv4wMMjlD9iyBulTtwStEwVOrBfmDiXmFn G-cfCn3hCgD-ignehg4) happened. Police trying to herd and corral protestors, when some good Samaritans let them all into their homes.

Link is not working Larry.It should be fixed now. Here it is again.

https://dcist.com/story/20/06/02/dupont-dc-home-protest-rahul-dubey/?fbclid=IwAR0k8LXv4wMMjlD9iyBulTtwStEwVOrBfmDiXmFn G-cfCn3hCgD-ignehg4

[Metal Years]

Livestream each cop cam to a cloud server so they can be watched real time by anyone who's interested, just like scanner traffic is mirrored online. We're taxpayers, we have the right to transparency when it comes to our employees. Shit, as a call center employee every call I had was recorded and there were cameras all over the building to be in compliance with credit card information so we were on view all day long--why should cops be exempt? Maybe some accountability would improve their performance.

Excellent idea.

[Derleth]

Missoula's finally getting some protest action (https://web.archive.org/web/20200603035002/https://missoulian.com/news/local/counterprotesters-arrive-at-missoulas-george-floyd-rally/article_f3d25885-9136-53bc-8061-5bd80babe885.html), all peaceful.

[Radical Edward]

All is still quiet here, but there's a police car on every block downtown. In response, people are driving 5mph. I am listening to the police scanner, but all I hear is some stuff about a drunk guy. There's a petition going around to get our Confederate Participation Trophy removed from the front of the court house, which I support. Huntsville would like theirs removed as well. Birmingham's has been partly removed and they've imposed a curfew. That's about 3-4 hours from here, depending on traffic. Jefferson county enacted a curfew, but apparently forgot to tell anyone including the police officers who were supposed to be enforcing it, until it was almost over. Good job?

A doctor in Huntsville is pissed about how they are handling protesters. (https://www.al.com/opinion/2020/06/huntsville-police-called-out-for-inexcusable-behavior.html)

[Detroit Hoser]

BLM isn't planning anything for Lansing just yet, not officially, until things die down. Smart move, considering the actors that are trying to smear their name. I can't go out into the streets at this point due to a Satanic possession of my innards, and as Edna pointed out last night, "You will absolutely hate sitting in jail feeling like crap more than you hate sitting at home, think about that." I thought about it.

So I sent a message to the BLM organizer and asked how I can donate to whatever the deem fitting. Mentions were made of a bail fund and medical care, and I can throw some bucks that way. It's what I can do, so I will.

[Rat Diva]

Sorry about your demon giblets :(

THat's a good idea; I'm going to find out if there are any similar funds for the protestors around here.

Meanwhile, some shitstain made a post on Facebook about looting the local Walmart. It and surrounding stores and restaurants (including some independent ones that were just allowed to reopen last Friday) were closed early by police because they couldn't not take it seriously. Later the poster tried to walk it back by saying she was just joking :headwall: Stupid cunt.

[JackieLikesVariety]

I can't go out into the streets at this point due to a Satanic possession of my innards

:( damn! is it still giving you good days inbetween the bad? or just varies randomly?

[3acres]

So I sent a message to the BLM organizer and asked how I can donate to whatever the deem fitting. Mentions were made of a bail fund and medical care, and I can throw some bucks that way. It's what I can do, so I will.

After reading your post, I went looking for appropriate funds and found this Rolling Stone article:
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/george-floyd-protests-bail-funds-police-brutality-black-lives-matter-1008259/

They have a list of funds, national and local, including links.

[Rat Diva]

After reading your post, I went looking for appropriate funds and found this Rolling Stone article:
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/george-floyd-protests-bail-funds-police-brutality-black-lives-matter-1008259/

They have a list of funds, national and local, including links.

Perfect! ::smooooooooooooch!::

[Detroit Hoser]

Meanwhile, some shitstain made a post on Facebook about looting the local Walmart.

I was at my own local WM last night to pick up a prescription and nutrients for my weedlettes. They were out of pretty much everything anyone actually wants or needs, so those would be some disappointed looters. Also, the WM workers are no longer wearing face masks, but I wore mine to protect them, nonetheless.


:( damn! is it still giving you good days inbetween the bad? or just varies randomly?

It varies. The part that keeps me from doing much away from home is the shortness of breath that comes with the slightest exertion, even walking two hundred feet to the back of my yard. So I'm not going to do any protesting for a while.

[What Exit?]

The only protests I was ever part of was to stop a garbage incinerator from being built. Oh, also a counter-KKK protest when I was still in High School.

In honesty I'm not too likely to join a protest, especially in the middle of a Pandemic. Hell I get winded with a 1.7 miles walk these days. So I can only support from afar and soon will be donating to the Biden Campaign or select Senate campaigns. I'm still trying to decide which will be more effective.

[Sputnik]

In honesty I'm not too likely to join a protest, especially in the middle of a Pandemic. Hell I get winded with a 1.7 miles walk these days. So I can only support from afar and soon will be donating to the Biden Campaign or select Senate campaigns. I'm still trying to decide which will be more effective.

Imagine how good it will feel to help Biden win even though you were but one vote and a $$ contribution to his war chest. We can't afford for him to lose.

[Rat Diva]

The senate is important too, though. Anything to help erode the Republican bloc who are either ideallogically aligned with Trumpoleon or too wimpy to go against him.

[What Exit?]

In honesty I'm not too likely to join a protest, especially in the middle of a Pandemic. Hell I get winded with a 1.7 miles walk these days. So I can only support from afar and soon will be donating to the Biden Campaign or select Senate campaigns. I'm still trying to decide which will be more effective.

Imagine how good it will feel to help Biden win even though you were but one vote and a $$ contribution to his war chest. We can't afford for him to lose.
I've tracking the polls for Biden, state by state for a reason. It's looking like he'll win without my help, but things could still change. If a few close Senate races help flip the Senate to the Dems, that is an even bigger win.
The senate is important too, though. Anything to help erode the Republican bloc who are either ideallogically aligned with Trumpoleon or too wimpy to go against him.

Exactly.

[Detroit Hoser]

Amy McGrath in Kentucky is challenging Mitch McConnell. I throw five bucks her way every pay day.

[What Exit?]

Amy McGrath in Kentucky is challenging Mitch McConnell. I throw five bucks her way every pay day.

That's good*, but no matter how many slimy evil things McConnell does, he is still listed as Likely to win or as a Safe seat. Arizona, Colorado, NC & Maine all have close races, close enough to be considered a toss-up. Iowa looks like it might be close and Michigan (Gary Peters) should go Dem but is still close enough to need help.

Kansas is also interesting as the incumbent is not running, so there seems to be a chance to flip it blue. Pat Roberts is retiring, Barbara Bollier (D) has a chance against former Secretary of State Kris Kobach (R), he lost the Governor's Race to a Dem in 2018.

Maine: I use to like Susan Collins, as did the moderate Republicans of Maine, she has pissed off a lot of those moderates and could lose her seat to Sara Gideon.

Arizona: Mark Kelly (D), astronaut and husband of former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords has a chance against Martha McSally (R), the appointed replacement for John McCain.

Colorado: Sen. Cory Gardner (R) has a fairly good chance to lose to former Governor, John Hickenlooper.

North Carolina: Former Democratic state Sen. Cal Cunningham is running even in polls and fundraising vs. Sen. Thom Tillis (R) incumbent.

Iowa: is a messy race with 4 candidates it looks like. Incumbent Joni Ernst (R) has a narrow lead.


* All that said, giving to Amy McGrath (D) in Kentucky is probably a losing effort in Kentucky, but might draw money and focus to a state that wasn't expected to be in doubt for the Republicans.


Georgia is interesting: 2 seats at once and the state is heading purple. Both races look confusing at this point.



ETA: Sorry all, I hope this wasn't too far off topic for this thread. Maybe I should move this to the Biden Poll or it's own thread?

Started new thread here: 2020 Close Senate Races (https://www.giraffeboards.com/showthread.php?p=1615647#post1615647)

[BeeGee]

We've had protests during the day and looters at night.

The governor has called out the Texas National Guard to protect the capitol. One of the protectors has tested positive for Covid 19. If that's not a sign of the times, I don't know what is.
https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/officer-assigned-to-texas-capitol-security-tests-positive-for-covid-19/

Police used non-lethal rounds on the protesters who were at the police station and on I-35. Bad idea.
https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/everything-we-know-about-the-pregnant-woman-shot-in-the-stomach-at-austin-protest/

About an hour ago, the police chief said he's considering a curfew.

My new house is in a fairly nice area that's way too close to a homeless tent city set up under the overpass. I am home when I can be home.

[Sputnik]

This may help... All 4 officers now face charges.

The three other officers on scene, Thomas Lane, Tou Thao and J. Alexander Kueng, are charged with aiding and abetting second-degree murder and aiding and abetting second-degree manslaughter

[BJMoose]

Things got a bit ugly in Wichita last night. It is said a small group of troublemakers latched onto a peaceful assembly and started vandalizing and looting.


Today I realized that what needs to be done now is to end all public "protests". The point has already been well made. Continuing to repeat the same song night after night now serves no useful purpose.

[Zeener Diode]

Today I realized that what needs to be done now is to end all public "protests". The point has already been well made. Continuing to repeat the same song night after night now serves no useful purpose.

I'm hoping this is said with tongue-in-cheek.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Things got a bit ugly in Wichita last night. It is said a small group of troublemakers latched onto a peaceful assembly and started vandalizing and looting.


Today I realized that what needs to be done now is to end all public "protests". The point has already been well made. Continuing to repeat the same song night after night now serves no useful purpose.


I dunno man, I see the violence the police direct against peaceful protestors (I'm not talking about the stuff that happens at night) and it's pretty clear the point hasn't gotten across.

I'm not saying we need more violence, and I'm sure as hell not going to launch into some nightmare of "defending" looting, but I'm saying that the fundamental problem has not been addressed: the photo below is of a 9-year-old maced by police in my town just a couple days ago - broad daylight, no claims of looting going on

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49968525388_f98d1e2527.jpg



Fundamentally, the government derives its legitimacy from the people.

If people are peacefully protesting, even if they're blocking the street, they shouldn't be gassed, beaten, driven over by an SUV, attacked by police horses.

Using violence against the very people they work for, the police de-legitimize the very government they work for and represent.


Putting aside everything that happens at night, people are being attacked by the police during the day, during peaceful protests.

The point is that this is unacceptable. That point is not understood by a wide variety of police across the country, and we need to do something about it, because without a response, these officers will cause the next George Floyd.


I'm staying inside because of COVID, but I do recommend contacting your local city, county, state officials to complain - remind them why they're supposed to be earning their paychecks.

[Jaglavak]

Well, maybe some of the suits have a glimmer of humanity after all:

Snapchat stops promoting Donald Trump's account due to racial violence (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52912884)

On Monday, Snap's chief executive Evan Speigel had sent a memo to staff in which he detailed his views on the civil unrest sparked by the killing of George Floyd.

"Every minute we are silent in the face of evil and wrongdoing we are acting in support of evildoers," Mr Speigel wrote.

"As for Snapchat, we simply cannot promote accounts in America that are linked to people who incite racial violence, whether they do so on or off our platform."


As opposed to that soulless asshole Zuckerberg, who as always remains sold out to the core. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52877801)

[BJMoose]

Today I realized that what needs to be done now is to end all public "protests". The point has already been well made. Continuing to repeat the same song night after night now serves no useful purpose.

I'm hoping this is said with tongue-in-cheek.


Oh, I'm dead serious.

First, let me make it clear that I'm asking the protesters themselves to call a halt, not for the protests to be ended by force.

We need to move on to the next steps, the effective steps, the hard work of actually effecting change in the system itself. Standing around chanting the same slogans over and over is easy; holding politicians' feet to the fire is hard. But all too often, once the shouting ends, nearly everyone goes back to their daily lives, and nothing changes.

We've gotten the attention of the beast; now we need to do something to change its ways.

[Zeener Diode]

I'll argue that we need to keep the protests going. This isn't the Occupy Wall Street or ICE demonstrations; this is an issue of police brutality that has been going on for far too long. To stop now would send the message that it's just a fad, and we're looking to move on to the next new thing.

[BJMoose]

Whenever it stops it will look like a fad, unless we immediately start (and keep) applying pressure.

[Sputnik]

State autopsy shows George Floyd tested positive for coronavirus. Wouldn't it be something if the 4 cops were the next 4 diagnosed with it.

[Sunny Daze]

Wait - are you serious? BRB

Holy shit. He did. He was asymptomatic. This could be interesting.

[SmartAleq]

Chris Hedges weighing in on this mess and why it's happening (https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/06/02/treason-ruling-class). I find very little to contradict in his take on things.

[Derleth]

State autopsy shows George Floyd tested positive for coronavirus. Wouldn't it be something if the 4 cops were the next 4 diagnosed with it.Deep State BLM targeting police officers with Soros Clinton Coronavirus to Stop Boogaloos? Next they'll be turning the frogs gay!

[Glazer]

WFHgKUVXtkc

[eleanorigby]

Whenever it stops it will look like a fad, unless we immediately start (and keep) applying pressure.

This IS the way we, the hoi polloi, exert pressure. House of Reps has proposed legislation that addresses the issue of overreaching police, especially the immunity thing, which is ridiculous, IMO. They did so in response to the protests. Please note the profound silence of the GOP re all of this, and especially their WH thug.

We can only vote at certain times and the time between is long. By all means, pick up your phone and call your elected officials at all levels, but if you can march (masked with hand sanitizer), then do so.

I have no words filthy enough to express my contempt for rioters, looters and inciters of violence, whether they wear civilian clothes or a uniform.

At bottom, it's not a black vs white issue; it's us vs the racists. That's the heart of the protests. What we need to change is specifically police treatment of PoC, and also our hearts: white people need to recognize how much racism is marbled into our world and work to change it. Affirmative Action plans are not enough; we each bear personal responsibility. This thing has barely started, and without national leadership*, it's not going to get better.


*Trump will (and already has) make things worse. It will soon be open season on the citizenry, starting with those who (supposedly) don't look like "us".

[JackieLikesVariety]

Today I realized that what needs to be done now is to end all public "protests". The point has already been well made. Continuing to repeat the same song night after night now serves no useful purpose.

I could not possibly disagree more.

and "protests" - really? the protests and the protesters are real.

the rioters and looters are different people with the opposite agenda.

[JackieLikesVariety]

and Jag's link about zuckerberg was so good I had to share it.
but on facebook. :sciencefail:

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Here's a good overhead view of a protest in the Capitol Hill neighborhood of Seattle (https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/gv0ru3/this_is_the_moment_it_all_happened/) (I work a couple blocks from where this video was shot) - watch the pink umbrella at the police barricades lower center.

You can see from the video that what sparks the violence is the police grabbing the umbrella, and then after unsuccessfully trying to wrest it from the protestor's hands, they deploy pepper spray. Then up and down the line, more police start spraying pepper spray, and then flash-bangs.


The umbrella wasn't important, it wasn't going to somehow break the police line. What was important is a bunch of (mostly) guys who felt they were being disrespected by the very people they work for. The state can escalate violence all it wants, and it will probably "win." But a just state doesn't need to deploy violence against non-violent demonstrators.



Even if they can't articulate it, people know this. The violent crackdowns may eventually clear the streets, but at what cost to rule "by and for the people"?

I've been sending complaints to my mayor and representative, and then figured "what the hell" - and started sending complaints to other peoples' mayors and representatives.

After watching this video in Grand Rapids, MI of a solitary protestor (this time at night) facing a couple dozen police, who first mace him, then at point-blank range fire a tear-gas canister (https://twitter.com/jusalotofpain/status/1267638427723296768) or flash-bang at him on camera, I wrote the Grand Rapids mayor about it.


Don't just contact your own representatives, contact anyone you think will help.

[JackieLikesVariety]

starting with Black Lives Matter, here is a list (https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/money-and-power/g32730417/george-floyd-blm-how-to-donate-help/?fbclid=IwAR321olF0k71wfRI3z9NcU3FqvSKPMD9eVWAom_J dBDhvUNpyF8LhXz8oMc) of social justice organizations for those wanting to send some support.

[BJMoose]

State autopsy shows George Floyd tested positive for coronavirus. Wouldn't it be something if the 4 cops were the next 4 diagnosed with it.


Jeez. We're living in the worst novel ever written. Except, of course, it's real.

[jali]

Amy McGrath in Kentucky is challenging Mitch McConnell. I throw five bucks her way every pay day.

I'll do the same!

[SmartAleq]

The vast majority of violent incidents here in Portland have been started by the cops. We have SO much video of them arbitrarily opening up on peaceful protesters that it's getting ridiculous. I mean, if we were just being selective I guess they could rebut with bodycam video showing protesters starting shit--and yet, nothing. Wonder why that is? Is it that bodycam footage from the cops would validate what the protesters are publishing or do they just have their cams shut off because they don't WANT a record? Not a good look for them fucks no matter how it turns out. Then we have footage from Salem showing cops in body armor but riot helmets off having lovely kind conversations with white nationalists with loaded long arms in hand. Full riot gear, tear gas, pepper spray and flashbangs running SUVs into peaceful protesters but chummy AF with fully armed Nazis. Huh. Kinda makes you wonder, don't it?

[JackieLikesVariety]

Then we have footage from Salem showing cops in body armor but riot helmets off having lovely kind conversations with white nationalists with loaded long arms in hand.

WTF :rigs:

[SmartAleq]

Well, here's a bit of good local news (https://www.koin.com/news/education/portland-public-schools-cuts-ties-with-portland-police/)--Portland Public Schools has decided to sever ties with the Police Bureau and are removing School Resource Officers from all the schools. Way past time, you ask me--and this removes one link of the school to prison pipeline. A chunk of change is being diverted from the cops to fund teams that will actually be of use and benefit to children--social workers and counselors rather than cops strikes me as a huge move in the right direction.

[Glazer]

Lest we forget.

Hy3a6PvIcxI

[eleanorigby]

This, for me, says it all (besides the needless and cruel death of George Floyd):

PoliceBrutality (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/video-shows-elderly-man-hitting-his-head-on-the-ground-after-being-shoved-by-police-in-buffalo/)

There is NO need for this excessive force. I am fed to the back teeth with this toxic masculinity BS that demands cops be outfitted as if they were patrollers in Fallujah. They all think they're Clint Eastwood FFS. And we're supposed to see them as Andy Taylor. In reality, they're state-sanctioned thugs. Yes, I'm lumping them all together because too many of the good guys stay silent while the sociopaths run amok.

IMO, the police union has got to be cleaned up. Too many cops are on the payroll after 1, 4, 12, 19 infractions and complaints. Their body cameras should not be allowed to be turned off while on duty, nor should their dashboard cams. And please stop with this BS of "most officers never fire their weapons in decades of police work". Who needs to fire their weapon when they've got pepper spray, billy clubs, tear gas and flashbangs? It's sick. And what was done to this man was barbaric; they even prevent another officer from attempting to help. The Chief of Police says "he tripped". NO, HE WAS SHOVED BACKWARDS HARD ENOUGH TO LOSE HIS BALANCE. He was handing out flyers, FFS. He's elderly. So much for "protect and serve". Given his bleeding from the ear, it's likely he suffered a basilar fracture to his skull. They say he's stable, but you know who else is "stable"? Bodies on life support awaiting their organ harvesting. "Stable" covers a LOT of ground.

And the other video of those beasts (another town; they've all blurred together) groping that woman, and then 5 "officers" descend on her whipping the sh*t out of her with their batons. Fuck them. It's vile; they're vile.

[3acres]

The assailants were merely suspended, not fired. And will the officials who lied about it face any repercussions of any kind? No. It's all part of the fascist plan, leading up to our "Reichstag fire". The rethuglican party intends to become simply "The Party".

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Guess whose town didn't burn last night?


Seattle's Mayor decided in negotiations with activists to lift the curfew last night...

...cops didn't beat the shit out of anyone 'to enforce the curfew'

...protests were peaceful last night.

How does that work? Can anyone figure it out? Is it magic? :confused:

[What Exit?]

Guess whose town didn't burn last night?


Seattle's Mayor decided in negotiations with activists to lift the curfew last night...

...cops didn't beat the shit out of anyone 'to enforce the curfew'

...protests were peaceful last night.

How does that work? Can anyone figure it out? Is it magic? :confused:

She's a Witch!

Could it be most activists are peaceful protesters and by most, I mean high 90s percent?

[BJMoose]

It could and it is.

[Jaglavak]

The assailants were merely suspended, not fired. And will the officials who lied about it face any repercussions of any kind? No. It's all part of the fascist plan, leading up to our "Reichstag fire". The rethuglican party intends to become simply "The Party".

Bingo. I wonder which way the military will jump?

[Glazer]

QNq71mukKQs

[SmartAleq]

That footage of cops in Salem being buddy buddy with white supremacists? Some kind soul closed captioned it. Check this shit out (https://twitter.com/Satellit3Heart/status/1268863536299675648).

[Solfy]

This morning a colleague that I'm FB friends with, and who usually has similar political stances to mine, posted a bit about how three local business owners that he knows had to shut their businesses down because they were looted, leading to their employees being once again furloughed, and wrapping with, "So will you please contribute to the fund to bail the looters out of prison?"
The sarcasm was going over like a lead balloon.

Then this evening I saw at least three photos/videos of people seriously injured by the police while clearly and unambiguously peacefully protesting. I wanted to go back to his FB post and ask he was okay bailing out the young lady with the rubber bullet hole in her forehead, or how much looting he thought the homeless guy in the wheelchair was doing before he was shot by the police, but I'm happy to see he took his tone deaf post down and went back to posting guitar licks.

[eleanorigby]

The shopping strip near the expressway entry/exit was closed for at least 3 days and my little suburb was on lockdown/curfew due to protests and riots. I'm close enough to NW Indiana that when they had their own protests/riots the expressway exits were kept blocked (lots of back lanes to get to IN here).

Plus, the main thoroughfare for this district was torn up for road repaving.

Yesterday they opened it all up again. Gridlock to get to grocery, HomeDepot and Walmart. (I did not go, but saw pics. Insanity).

Now we have cicadas with the resultant seagull swarm (from Lake Michigan). Right now outside my window (Old House) it sounds like dock a Maine when the fishing boats arrive.

And Covid-19 is still very much with us. So... plague, locusts, pillaging. Famine coming? Could be...

[3acres]

So... plague, locusts, pillaging. Famine coming? Could be...

_8MJVBjhK0s

[raventhief]

Some family members keep posting "all lives matter" and acting oh so offended when the response is anything other than "amen" or "praise God".

I'm getting sick of explaining anything to anyone who also thinks trump is doing a great job.

[Ludovic]

I didn't like the phrase Black Lives Matter until yesterday, for multiple reasons, but now I like it because it's trolling Trump with BLM Plaza. I'm behind it until we get the CFSG out of office, then we can resume the circular firing squad.

[Rock]

Some family members keep posting "all lives matter" and acting oh so offended when the response is anything other than "amen" or "praise God".

I'm getting sick of explaining anything to anyone who also thinks trump is doing a great job.

I know, right? No one is saying "Black lives matter more" we're saying "Black lives matter too!"

I didn't like the phrase Black Lives Matter until yesterday, for multiple reasons, but now I like it because it's trolling Trump with BLM Plaza. I'm behind it until we get the CFSG out of office, then we can resume the circular firing squad.

What a great way to give the finger to Trump. Almost makes me want to move to DC.

[BJMoose]

I would advise against that. Given how Trump is calling up (in lieu of the military) everyone working for the federal government with access to something resembling riot gear (Park Service, Bureau of Prisons, Border Patrol, etc.), in a few weeks the streets of Washington will be teeming with USDA inspectors armed with test swabs laced with e. coli.

[Sputnik]

trump leading from deep in der trumpen bunker. Can we cut the ventilation or perhaps put a few skunks in it?

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Seattle PD seems to be backsliding after a couple days of peaceful protests - they deployed flash-bangs and pepper spray last night, and justified it by posting on Twitter a picture of a candle and claiming they were attacked with 'explosives' (https://twitter.com/SeattlePD/status/1269474731717087233).

They also refused to let an ambulance through their lines after a group of protestors parted like the Red Sea to let the ambulance by (https://twitter.com/itsjosephryan/status/1269158676037660672).

[Detroit Hoser]

Amy McGrath in Kentucky is challenging Mitch McConnell. I throw five bucks her way every pay day.

I'll do the same!

Turns out I was misguided by the "Dem" label, Jali. Charles Booker is also running, something I only learned a week ago. On the other hand, today I've learned all kinds of things about Amy McGrath that are enough to show me I've been contributing to a Republican in a Democrat's clothing. Booker now gets the pay day leftovers instead of McGrath.

[stormie]

Protests are a great way to bring attention to an issue. The press gets excited, people who were not interested become interested, government offices get worried. These protests have spread images of peaceful protesters and violent, arrogant police, bringing the point home, and have gained nationwide attention. We need to leverage this awareness into government changes. Pick an action you can carry out comfortably. To be effective, we need to:

- Support organizations that have acted on this issue for the long term, ie Black Lives Matter (http://blacklivesmatter.com/) and the ACLU (http://action.aclu.org/).
,
- Vote in every election from school board to President, and support appropriate candidates nationwide. A good organization for information about potential Democratic seats is SwingLeft (https://swingleft.org/). However, not all Democratic candidates are appropriate - research your candidates. There are good reasons for electing reasonable people of any (or no) party.
,
- Make your informed opinions known to State and Local representatives. Identify the most relevant offices. Call, write, email their offices, use their online comment forms, tweet at them, meet with them. Direct communication is taken more seriously than online petitions. Have a brief statement ready regarding a particular bill, ask where they stand and why, or propose action. Be calm and on-point. Attend public meetings or hearings. Make a public comment if possible. Don't speak to the same people on the same committee too many times or they will write you off as a crank.
,
- Write your own comment as the first paragraph of an online letter or petition. The recipients look for this as an indication that the signer is paying attention.
,
- Write letters to newspapers and magazines. Match your tone to the publication.
,
- Support businesses that support your views
,
- Film stuff and make anything interesting public
,
- Publicly do what you want others to do, and if anyone asks why, tell them. Calmly.
,
- Try not to get in stupid arguments and shouting matches. No hitting!

That's what I know

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Great post stormie!

9 out of 13 Minneapolis City Council members have announced they're willing to disband the Minneapolis PD and start fresh creating a new police force (https://theappeal.org/minneapolis-city-council-members-announce-intent-to-disband-the-police-department-invest-in-proven-community-led-public-safety/).

Camden, NJ did something similar several years ago - I've heard both good and bad things about it, but when a force is too corrupt, racist, and entrenched, it might need to be a first step.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Jeez - a man drove up to protestors this evening in Seattle, shot one protestor (who survived and is reportedly in stable condition at the hospital), then surrendered to police.

https://twitter.com/chaseburnsy/status/1269833325440462848

(the tweet erroneously says the man just flashed a gun, but if you read down in the thread there's more info about the gunshot victim)

[Derleth]

Great post stormie!

9 out of 13 Minneapolis City Council members have announced they're willing to disband the Minneapolis PD and start fresh creating a new police force (https://theappeal.org/minneapolis-city-council-members-announce-intent-to-disband-the-police-department-invest-in-proven-community-led-public-safety/).

Camden, NJ did something similar several years ago - I've heard both good and bad things about it, but when a force is too corrupt, racist, and entrenched, it might need to be a first step.What they need to do is destroy the union, and replace it with either nothing (police want to be kitted out like soldiers, but have you ever heard of a soldiers' union?) or something which is appendant to the city council and has leadership elected by the voters, who, after all, have to deal with the results when a police union goes off the rails.

[stormie]

I thought the head of the police force was elected? Have I not been paying attention?

We need to increase education requirements for policepersons, including training in communication, cultures, and moderation as a post-high school requirement for academy admission. We need to use basic measure of social skills as part of the admission criteria to the Academy. In the Academy we need to emphasize de-escalation and interpersonal skills. We need retirement, health, and promotion plans that support long-term police careers. And of course we need everyone from Lieutenant up to really, really want to create an equitable police force.
HAHAHAHAha oh I kill me.
Speaking of, we need to throw away any equipment that belongs in the military, and use a European model for weapons access.

And of course, we need to take away every fucking person's guns except for two-shot legit hunting guns and whatever was used during the American Revolution.

[Detroit Hoser]

For me, the line stops at disallowing unions. Maybe a new union with a better negotiator on the side of zero-tolerance abuse, and a retooling of the entire contract, but when you remove one union you're setting precedence for other kinds of abuse in the rest of the Union World. Admittedly, I'm not well-educated here, no smarter than the average yokel on the street, so there may be nuances I don't know about.

I'm willing to learn, but off the top of my head it scares my pro-union brain to forbid it.

[Sputnik]

When you have a police force that allows a cop with 18 citizen complaints against him to be a training officer for recruits, then it's pretty clear that you're passing along some pretty shitty police techniques. Fix the obvious problems first. Independent police review with teeth is a start.

[Detroit Hoser]

Burn it down and build it from a new foundation. If things are really going to change, this is the only way.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

For me, the line stops at disallowing unions.


You're right - disbanding a police department and firing all the officers does automatically destroy the union, but this shouldn't be an exercise in union-busting. Police unions are part of the problem, but they don't have to be. Police unions are toxic right now because policing is toxic, not because police are unionized.

As we recreate policing, unions shouldn't be able to protect criminal actions - can you imagine if an electrician's union were so powerful it could prevent investigations of its members for beating people up? Or wipe their criminal records clean?

We need to ensure that whatever new form policing takes; its new unions can't do that.

[Sputnik]

It's never going to change when the fearless bunker boy claims that peaceful protestors need to dealt with by armed federal troops.

Anyone who doesn't vote in November is clearly part of the problem too.

[Detroit Hoser]

For me, the line stops at disallowing unions.


You're right - disbanding a police department and firing all the officers does automatically destroy the union, but this shouldn't be an exercise in union-busting. Police unions are part of the problem, but they don't have to be. Police unions are toxic right now because policing is toxic, not because police are unionized.

As we recreate policing, unions shouldn't be able to protect criminal actions - can you imagine if an electrician's union were so powerful it could prevent investigations of its members for beating people up? Or wipe their criminal records clean?

We need to ensure that whatever new form policing takes; its new unions can't do that.

See, this is why I hang out here. You guys explain what I'm trying to say so much better than I do. :hattip:

[Sputnik]

The Dems are introducing a new bill for Police reform. Among the provisions;

Democrats want to lower the federal threshold for when police officers can be charged with using excessive force and limit “qualified immunity” which currently shields officers from lawsuits over their misconduct...

Democrats are also seeking to create a “National Police Misconduct Registry,” end racial profiling, bar the use of “no-knock” arrest warrants in drug cases, develop a national standard on using force, and limit the transfer of military equipment to police departments, among other initiatives.

From Politico.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/08/democrats-to-unveil-sweeping-police-reform-bill-307108

[C2H5OH]

... (police want to be kitted out like soldiers, but have you ever heard of a soldiers' union?) ...

[annoying pedantic git] Actually, soldiers in the US military effectively do have a union, although it isn't called or organized like a civilian union. The way the US military is organized, every command position from platoon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platoon_sergeant#United_States) leader on up to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senior_Enlisted_Advisor_to_the_Chairman) has a senior (E7 or above) enlisted guy immediately under him whose job is (at least partially) to represent all the enlisted personnel of the command and advise the officer on issues important to the TED*s. Of course, unlike the police unions, your platoon sergeant (or chief, in the Navy) will happily recommend your court-martial to your commanding officer if you abuse your position the way the various pigs in the news, lately, have. He's supposed to have your back, but you've gotta do your part, too, by not being an indefensible asswipe.[/apg]

*Typical Enlisted Dude

[hilarity n. suze]

Great post stormie!

9 out of 13 Minneapolis City Council members have announced they're willing to disband the Minneapolis PD and start fresh creating a new police force (https://theappeal.org/minneapolis-city-council-members-announce-intent-to-disband-the-police-department-invest-in-proven-community-led-public-safety/).

Camden, NJ did something similar several years ago - I've heard both good and bad things about it, but when a force is too corrupt, racist, and entrenched, it might need to be a first step.

I have only heard good things about the Camden experience. Mainly, that Camden's minority citizens now feel that the police are there to serve and protect. How did Camden do in the riots? What I read was that the Camden police marched and protested along with the rest of the protesters.

[hilarity n. suze]

The Dems are introducing a new bill for Police reform. Among the provisions;

Democrats want to lower the federal threshold for when police officers can be charged with using excessive force and limit “qualified immunity” which currently shields officers from lawsuits over their misconduct...

Democrats are also seeking to create a “National Police Misconduct Registry,” end racial profiling, bar the use of “no-knock” arrest warrants in drug cases, develop a national standard on using force, and limit the transfer of military equipment to police departments, among other initiatives.

From Politico.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/08/democrats-to-unveil-sweeping-police-reform-bill-307108

Denver had an incident. which took years and years to resolve and eventually resolved it in favor of the the plaintifss who were beaten up by the cops, but also, somehow, in favor of the officers, with, guess what, years and years of BACK PAY. So, in addition to the something like $3 million* that the city had to pay the victims, they also owe a chunk of change to the perpetrators--and to give these thugs their jobs back.

*As I remember, did not look it up.

[BJMoose]

Here's an interesting number: a recent poll claims 84 percent of Americans support the protests. Since, according to an old rule of thumb, you will never get more than 85 percent of any population to agree on anything, this is truly remarkable.

[Jaglavak]

One teensy little extra challenge: How to do scrap off the thugs without driving away the 90% of good cops who don't kick the shit out of people for fun. They need to know we are with them too.

[BJMoose]

Yeah. Ideally, you arrest the thugs and leave everyone else alone. But I gave up on idealism long ago.

[Jaglavak]

If you treat them all like shit that's not going to fix anything either. Lets keep our eye on the goal.

[Glazer]

Have the good ones arrest the thugs. Or they're thugs too.

[stormie]

Yes, Nonpolice vs Police is not a helpful long-term approach, but . . . I have been to this rodeo. It's difficult to get anything done without some hostility.

[elmwood]

Where I live now, Ithaca, New York, is one of the bluest little cities in the United States. Peaceful protest is a way of life here. The thousands of boomer hippies that live here are the original ACABers, and the local police are cognisant of that. While the local cops aren't entirely without controversy, they generally give protestors their space, help block and divert traffic in advance if there's a street closure, and maintain a low-key presence. So far, no problems. Just a peaceful little valley town with a few peaceful protests every day.

[SmartAleq]

Want the good cops to police the shit ones? Fix it so that any settlements for excessive force/wrongful death/being a dick cannot be paid by taxpayer money--has to come out of the police budget and the pension fund. Oh yeah, you'll see cops kicking the shit out of their own any time they get a toe over the line.

And let's stop sending cops out for people who are having mental difficulties, send a social worker. Don't send them out on domestic disturbances, send a counselor with a big list of instant resources to help battered spouses GTFO and stay that way, who can write out a restraining order and serve it right on the spot. Don't send them out for people experiencing problems with drugs, send a social worker there too, one that can impose a mental hold/dryout period in rehab. Only send the cops out for stuff that is legitimately a threat to public safety. Like as backup in case any of the above scenarios goes pear shaped such that you need someone with a gun and a nightstick to deal with it. Otherwise, nah. And no more goddamned riot squads either, nor militarized SWAT. Too many toys tempts certain types of individual to make every situation something that needs bringing the toys out so, hey, no toys. Cope, people.

[JackieLikesVariety]

Fix it so that any settlements for excessive force/wrongful death/being a dick cannot be paid by taxpayer money--has to come out of the police budget and the pension fund.

great idea

[Zeener Diode]

Want the good cops to police the shit ones? Fix it so that any settlements for excessive force/wrongful death/being a dick cannot be paid by taxpayer money--has to come out of the police budget and the pension fund. Oh yeah, you'll see cops kicking the shit out of their own any time they get a toe over the line.

And let's stop sending cops out for people who are having mental difficulties, send a social worker. Don't send them out on domestic disturbances, send a counselor with a big list of instant resources to help battered spouses GTFO and stay that way, who can write out a restraining order and serve it right on the spot. Don't send them out for people experiencing problems with drugs, send a social worker there too, one that can impose a mental hold/dryout period in rehab. Only send the cops out for stuff that is legitimately a threat to public safety. Like as backup in case any of the above scenarios goes pear shaped such that you need someone with a gun and a nightstick to deal with it. Otherwise, nah. And no more goddamned riot squads either, nor militarized SWAT. Too many toys tempts certain types of individual to make every situation something that needs bringing the toys out so, hey, no toys. Cope, people.

You saw John Oliver Last Night, didn't you? He raised the same questions, although others have been saying the same thing for years. If Congress is serious about reforming the system they need to start funding social programs that address mental health, drug addition, and recidivism. AND de-militarize the police, they're not the friggin army.

[Derleth]

Want the good cops to police the shit ones? Fix it so that any settlements for excessive force/wrongful death/being a dick cannot be paid by taxpayer money--has to come out of the police budget and the pension fund. Oh yeah, you'll see cops kicking the shit out of their own any time they get a toe over the line.Or see them clam up because they don't want Officer Asshole destroying their pension every time he beats some heads. Who assaulted those Black kids? Uh... I must have been at lunch. Sorry.

And let's stop sending cops out for people who are having mental difficulties, send a social worker. Don't send them out on domestic disturbances, send a counselor with a big list of instant resources to help battered spouses GTFO and stay that way, who can write out a restraining order and serve it right on the spot. Don't send them out for people experiencing problems with drugs, send a social worker there too, one that can impose a mental hold/dryout period in rehab. Only send the cops out for stuff that is legitimately a threat to public safety. Like as backup in case any of the above scenarios goes pear shaped such that you need someone with a gun and a nightstick to deal with it. Otherwise, nah.So don't send cops out unless you need to, at which point you send the cops out. I envy you your crystal ball, or whatever other ability you have to know beforehand that this time the abuser won't stop beating her husband and start beating the social worker, or that this time the violent asshole who thinks the Mossad is stealing their thoughts will be A-OK with being physically restrained so they can be taken to the psychiatric center without beating anyone up. Because sending an unarmed social worker into a hostile situation is a bit more responsibility than I'd be willing to take on.

I'm in favor of more shelters for everyone, no matter what they identify as. I'm in favor of dumping the damn Duluth model (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duluth_model) for the anti-scientific nonsense it is. I'm in favor of massively more funding for mental health. I'm not in favor of sending unarmed people into dangerous situations. We'd do better to build police forces full of people who know how to use minimal force, are willing to use minimal force, and who can be on-the-spot counselors capable of getting people to a real one as safely as possible.

And no more goddamned riot squads either, nor militarized SWAT. Too many toys tempts certain types of individual to make every situation something that needs bringing the toys out so, hey, no toys. Cope, people.I'm for the demilitarization of police, but there needs to be a level of response between armed patrol officer and National Guard unit.

... (police want to be kitted out like soldiers, but have you ever heard of a soldiers' union?) ...

[annoying pedantic git] Actually, soldiers in the US military effectively do have a union, although it isn't called or organized like a civilian union. The way the US military is organized, every command position from platoon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platoon_sergeant#United_States) leader on up to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senior_Enlisted_Advisor_to_the_Chairman) has a senior (E7 or above) enlisted guy immediately under him whose job is (at least partially) to represent all the enlisted personnel of the command and advise the officer on issues important to the TED*s. Of course, unlike the police unions, your platoon sergeant (or chief, in the Navy) will happily recommend your court-martial to your commanding officer if you abuse your position the way the various pigs in the news, lately, have. He's supposed to have your back, but you've gotta do your part, too, by not being an indefensible asswipe.[/apg]

*Typical Enlisted DudeThat's an interesting perspective. I never considered NCOs as being like union leaders or union representatives before.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

I'm not in favor of sending unarmed people into dangerous situations. We'd do better to build police forces full of people who know how to use minimal force, are willing to use minimal force, and who can be on-the-spot counselors capable of getting people to a real one as safely as possible.

I'm for the demilitarization of police, but there needs to be a level of response between armed patrol officer and National Guard unit.



We already send unarmed people into dangerous situations all the time. Nurses and assistants restrain violent patients without killing them, teachers deal with students fighting or in crisis without killing them, social workers and shelter personnel deal with people struggling with addiction/mental health/emotional crises without killing them, bus drivers and transit workers also deal with these people without killing them every day in this country.


Police aren't the only people who deal with the situations that might produce violence, and the propensity for American police to produce more violence, especially lethal violence, once they're called to a situation is just way too high - somewhere around 1,000 people every year (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police-shootings-2019/).

We've invested massively in a bunch of (mostly) guys with guns and sticks and an attitude approaching the comic book satires of the Punisher and Judge Dredd (https://twitter.com/cjane87/status/1270065350974070785/photo/1); it's not surprising that the result is a ton of blood spilled.


But I think we agree in the second part - there needs to be a way all these calls that come in can be responded to - think of all the car accidents, neighbor disputes, burglary-report-filing - and America's response to all this is to call the person with a gun and a stick so they can get to the next step in the insurance process. This is nonsense, and we need fewer of the people with sticks and guns, and more of the people who can mediate, handle report-filing, document, provide links to mental and emotional health support, and follow-up.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

NETA: And, oh my gawd, don't let me forget how many powerless folks in retail have to deal with other people's mental and emotional shit.

[What Exit?]

Nearby town of Hazlet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazlet,_New_Jersey)had a peaceful march. The town is overwhelmingly white. There were hundreds involved. It ended up being just 2 hours long in the end. The police apparently stayed clear and just kept the road closed.

It's actually good to see as it is a town that often votes Republican.

[BJMoose]

I'm with Derleth on this one. Reality is far too complicated for one-size-fits-all thinking; and, sometimes, extreme force is the only rational response. Do you want to send in a social worker to chat with the next active spree shooter? (And, if so, are you volunteering?) I recall a local incident a few years back where an officer was obliged to shoot a large dog that was attacking her. Was she supposed to try to scratch its head and call it George as it lunged for her throat?

Ideal worlds are wonderful things, except for the fact that they do not exist.

[Sputnik]

We've just seen an example of excessive force being used by federal troops to disperse peaceful protestors in Washington. This is the problem, not police shooting and killing someone shooting students in school. This is all about being able to police the police, as too many of them think the first response requires swinging a baton or pulling a gun.
I want all cops to go safely home after working a shift, but I also want deeper accountability when they 'claim' they felt threatened and used deadly force. Their policy of shooting to kill (aim for center mass) instead of disabling is pretty fucking stupid too.

[SmartAleq]

Well, y'see, we have these things called "dispatchers" and they use another miracle item called a "radio." If things are too much for your first responders, they can call in the heavies. Just like they do this very day all across the nation when a fire department team gets a call that turns out to be escalated. The fire department falls back and monitors the situation until the cops get there. And as for cops shooting dogs, don't get me started on the sheer number of dogs they've killed for being inconvenient--the cops barges in your house and scares you, your dog responds appropriately and BANG, dead dog. When it turns out the cops have the wrong house--which happens WAY more often than is appropriate, BTW--there's seldom even an "Oops, sorry about your puppers" moment from the fucking kulaks. Fuck those armed cowboys, they make way more problems than they solve.

As for "who's gonna volunteer for that" I will point out that in Portland we have about 1/3 the number of cops that a city of our size is usually equipped with and applications are slim pickin's but somehow our fire department is fully staffed and the ambulance companies have no problem keeping staffed either. Nobody already wants to be a cop because the environment and culture is so fucking toxic that anyone who isn't already an insane 'roided out PTSD case with control issues would entertain the notion of joining the City's Finest. There's no end of people who want to help people, but around here there IS a dearth of people who want to boss others around and shoot them if they don't behave like well trained dogs every time a cop barks an order. Funny that.

Oh, and our brand spankin' new police chief who just took over in January rage quit and good fucking riddance because she was being worse than useless, just like her predecessor. Now let's see if the next candidate has the balls to tell the fucking cops to stand down and stop shooting tear gas at every group of more than four people they see. They tried the cute trick of telling people that "Downtown is CLOSED and you can only get out of the downtown area to the west" (https://i.redd.it/9wcdnms19n351.jpg) which was a major issue with all the protesters who live on the EAST side of town and need to cross a fucking BRIDGE to get to their cars and go home. Fucking asshole cops.

And the fucking sonsabitches simply cannot help themselves--even knowing what started this whole mess in the first place, they are doing the knee on throat thing (https://twitter.com/DonovanFarley/status/1269701897377603584?s=20) just to tell us we aren't allowed to tell them "NO" on any subject whatsoever. They're targeting medical personnel trying to help. (https://i.redd.it/7rxmitpnyn351.jpg)

So the protesters shut down I-84 (https://i.imgur.com/rsjM112.jpg). Some dickhead in a pickup (https://twitter.com/abertolucci/status/1270195461140262912?s=21) decided he was pissed about this and crashed into the car blockade, then a protester in a car ran the guy down and crashed into him as he tried to hit and run.

But mostly things are like this (https://i.redd.it/l3qxpfpj7t351.jpg)--until the fucking cops arrive. Seriously, fuck those people.

[Sputnik]

But mostly things are like this (https://i.redd.it/l3qxpfpj7t351.jpg)--until the fucking cops arrive. Seriously, fuck those people.

Remember many cops are standing shoulder to shoulder, in solidarity, with those protesting. They aren't all intent on beating the crap out of innocent people.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

I think we're talking past each other, rather than to each other, and I'd like to try to change my behavior in that:


Do we agree that there's some sort of escalation response needed on a continuum:

Active shooter - need the person with the gun and the stick to respond

Person threatening others with a gun - need the person with the gun and the stick to respond

Person threatening others, no visible gun - YMMV*

Person attacking others with fists - don't need a person with a gun, but you do need the person who responds to be ready to use state-sanctioned violence

Person verbally abusive or yelling - don't need a person with a gun

Person being an asshole but not combative - don't need a person with a gun

Minor infraction like littering - don't need a person with a gun

Wellness check - don't need a person with a gun

Inanimate object (house, car) that has been broken into but no sign of the burglar - don't need a person with a gun

Fender-bender - don't need a person with a gun


This isn't intended to be exhaustive, and the world being what it is, even someone littering might eventually escalate into a gunfight. But what's a bit silly is to have all these things responded to by people with guns. There needs to be a system where people without guns - but with the training to mediate or write notes, or just witness and video-record - respond first. Perhaps those people will decide the situation is worse than the initial phone report indicated, and requires someone with a gun, which they can then radio for.

But our current one-size-fits-all solution of sending people with guns into all these situations is not ideal, and results in a significant number of avoidable deaths.


*Willing to talk about this more, but I suspect many will disagree

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

And another data point - last night in Seattle the police decided to try the non-confrontational route, and it turned out the protestors don't want their city covered in blood or ash (shocking, I know):


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49989055862_740e919328.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jamYHu)
https://twitter.com/EzraNBC/status/1270248212041830401

[Sputnik]

The red entries are clearly events that may require deadly force. That doesn't mean shoot first, ask questions later, but a decision has to be made as to what point it's no longer safe for the officers or the public to allow these events to continue. I don't think anyone questions that.

It's not just guns. After watching a few videos of police brutalizing protestors for peacefully exercising their right to protest brings up a whole category not on your list. Why do they need lethal weapons at all? If they must, water canons, not rubber bullets. Shooting pepper spray at a CNN reporter, 4 cops beating a bicyclist with batons, shoving an old fart on the ground and causing him to lay there bleeding, these are things that acts aren't acceptable even though guns weren't used.

[SmartAleq]

But mostly things are like this (https://i.redd.it/l3qxpfpj7t351.jpg)--until the fucking cops arrive. Seriously, fuck those people.

Remember many cops are standing shoulder to shoulder, in solidarity, with those protesting. They aren't all intent on beating the crap out of innocent people.

Not here they fucking well aren't--aside from some bullshit photo op crap and the same fucking cops were teargassing people 30 minutes after their performative dumbshow. Nah, for right here right now, fuck the police. ACAB.

[BJMoose]

Oh, grow up.

[SmartAleq]

Oh, adjust to reality.

[Derleth]

the fucking kulaksWhy are you demonizing victims of deliberate starvation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor)?In an August 1942 conversation, Stalin gave Winston Churchill his estimates of the number of "kulaks" who were repressed for resisting collectivisation as 10 million, in all of the Soviet Union, rather than only in Ukraine. When using this number, Stalin implied that it included not only those who lost their lives but also those who were forcibly deported.

[SmartAleq]

Try using the pre-1917 definition.

[stormie]

. . . others have been saying the same thing for years. If Congress is serious about reforming the system they need to start funding social programs that address mental health, drug addition, and recidivism. AND de-militarize the police, they're not the friggin army.Different times, different terms, but yeah, I can see this from decades away. It's very frustrating. I wish I could comprehend what people feel they would be losing.

A few of the activist platforms I read directed people to a particular information site on what white people can do to address racism in general and police reform in particular. I thought 'jeeze, this is written for ignorant racists, who do they think is reading . . oh.'

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Two quick things about the Camden, NJ police department in response to comments I hadn't responded to earlier upthread -


The Camden County Police Department did destroy the police union when it was created, because all the officers from the Camden Police Department that preceded it were fired. However, the new Dept. did re-unionize in 2013 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camden_County_Police_Department#Establishment_of_c ounty_department), so the current police force there is unionized. Excessive force complaints are still down 95% under what they were before the reorganization, so that hints to me that it's the policing that's toxic, not the unionized policing.


The bad things I've heard about the Camden experiment are that there is an Orwellian surveillance system in place in Camden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camden_County_Police_Department#Sky_Patrol), and that the new police department is overly reliant on fining people for minor bicycle and traffic infractions (fines that hurt a lot in a very poor community.)


I think we'll see more places conduct experiments like Camden's in the near future.

[Detroit Hoser]

I'd never heard of "kulaks" (https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/kulaks) until now. It absolutely fits.

the rural bourgeoisie, who became rich through predatory exploitation, loan sharking, and speculation. The word was first applied to the bourgeoisie forming in the Russian countryside during the 1890’s.

Kulaks arose among the peasantry when production for the market developed; they were the upper, prosperous stratum of the peasantry when the peasants still retained the features of a precapitalist class-estate. For the most part, kulaks differed little from other peasants in culture or life-style; they did agricultural work themselves. In prerevolutionary Russia and today in the developing countries, the kulaks basically represent the bourgeoisie in the epoch of primitive capital accumulation; they reinstitute a serf-like method of exploitation (through labor-rent and similar methods). In the developed capitalist countries, kulaks constitute a specific group of agricultural entrepreneurs: the landowners and those renting land...

[thorny locust]

In other words, they were farmers who managed to make enough money not to be living at the edge of starvation?

[BJMoose]

Oh, adjust to reality.

I tried that once. The pay scale sucked.

[Sputnik]

Choking people to death seems to have become a rite of passage for some cops.

Police body camera footage shows the February struggle involving Antonio Valenzuela, who died after Las Cruces officer Christopher Smelser was heard saying, "I'm going to f**king choke you out, bro."

The city informed Smelser on Friday of its intent to fire him. The four-year veteran of the force had been on administrative leave since the incident.


https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/las-cruces-police-officer-choking-death/index.html

[SmartAleq]

Check this out (https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759). Yes, I realize it's an anonymous Medium article but there's an undeniable ring of truth and the comments are full of people basically going "Yep, I'm/was a cop and he's right on the money." He makes some powerful points and I agree with him that our entire concept of policing is irremedially broken. So why do we keep doing this over and over? The bastardy is on full display all across the nation and yet people are STILL defending those out of control authoritarian fucks. It's absolutely an abusive relationship and we as a society need to rethink and remediate the holy hell out of the entire system.

[hilarity n. suze]

In other words, they were farmers who managed to make enough money not to be living at the edge of starvation?

I think they were essentially peasants who were slightly better off than the peasants below them, so they were, like, landlords to those lower peasants. Probably lorded it over them.

I would question using the pre-1917definition here in TYOOL2020.

[mjmlabs]

Thought about putting this over in the Foto Forum, but it belongs here.

This went up on a tree two doors down from me a few days ago:

https://i.imgur.com/IHps0d2h.jpg

Phun Phacts: This town is whiter than rice; about 9K total population, ~2.5% Black, maybe ~2% each Latinx and Asian-American, the rest seem to be inbred hillbillies locals from the same 20 or 30 families that have been here for 350 years. (Me, I moved out here 15 years ago for work, believe it or not.) So it's nice to see some social consciousness popping up down the street. For an idea of how small-town it is: This is a primary street, half a block up from the Police/Fire/EMS/Public Works compound, and the yellow sign poking out from under the BLM sign is someone's cutesy "Squirrel Xing" bit of whimsy.

Phunny Phact: The tree that sign is tacked to is literally next to a local cop's driveway. Like, as in "I was standing in the cop's driveway when I took that pic." Dunno if he put it up there, or if someone put it up there for him to see, or if it's all just a coinkydink; either way, it's been up for days and :thumbs: , I say.

[What Exit?]

I'm amazed it is still up, that is a good sign.

My Vets for Obama lawn sign got taken the 2nd night it was out (in 2008).

My White & Asian town had a rally planned for tomorrow, but it looks like T'storms will postpone it.

All the same, maybe real change is in the air.

[SmartAleq]

Relevant.

https://i.redd.it/b0s2qe4qq3451.png

[Anacanapuna]

I'm going to park this (https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759)here. It's 5,000 words and worth your time.

Because I don't believe in just posting URLs cold, here's a sample from the essay, which is called, "Confessions of a Former Bastard Cop." Some of you will feel especially validated after reading it, and you should. You've been right all along.

"Police officers do not protect and serve people, they protect and serve the status quo, “polite society”, and private property. Using the incremental mechanisms of the status quo will never reform the police because the status quo relies on police violence to exist. Capitalism requires a permanent underclass to exploit for cheap labor and it requires the cops to bring that underclass to heel."

And that's not even the best part. Believe me, this is a real eye-opener.

[BrickaBracka]

I'm going to park this (https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759)here. It's 5,000 words and worth your time.

Because I don't believe in just posting URLs cold, here's a sample from the essay, which is called, "Confessions of a Former Bastard Cop." Some of you will feel especially validated after reading it, and you should. You've been right all along.

"Police officers do not protect and serve people, they protect and serve the status quo, “polite society”, and private property. Using the incremental mechanisms of the status quo will never reform the police because the status quo relies on police violence to exist. Capitalism requires a permanent underclass to exploit for cheap labor and it requires the cops to bring that underclass to heel."

And that's not even the best part. Believe me, this is a real eye-opener.

What sickens me is that I already "knew" these things, in a vague "the water's not hot enough to jump out of the pot yet but I do believe they're cooking me" kind of way, but reading this fills me with a suspicious amount of confirmation.

It actually makes me think that since it's an anonymous submission that it reads like something an opponent of the police would write.

I remind you all that a thinking person can both agree with a thing and be dubious of it's origin and that doesn't automatically invalidate the thing. :sherlock:

If it were to come out that articles such as this one were written by an opponent of police, it would damage the credibility of the police reform "movement" (such as it is or isn't) - even though literally every piece of that article is clear and obvious truth to any compassionate thoughtful human.

In any event I sincerely hope legitimate police reform comes about before we get Gestapo V2, Electric Boogaloo

[SmartAleq]

I'm going to park this (https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759)here. It's 5,000 words and worth your time.

Because I don't believe in just posting URLs cold, here's a sample from the essay, which is called, "Confessions of a Former Bastard Cop." Some of you will feel especially validated after reading it, and you should. You've been right all along.

"Police officers do not protect and serve people, they protect and serve the status quo, “polite society”, and private property. Using the incremental mechanisms of the status quo will never reform the police because the status quo relies on police violence to exist. Capitalism requires a permanent underclass to exploit for cheap labor and it requires the cops to bring that underclass to heel."

And that's not even the best part. Believe me, this is a real eye-opener.

Pssst (https://www.giraffeboards.com/showpost.php?p=1617737&postcount=209). ;)

[What Exit?]

My town actually had about 200 show up for a rally with T'storms looming. I'm impressed. It wasn't long and we don't have a downtown, so I'm not sure how effective it was, but maybe out of those 200 mostly young people, some will become activists for change.

[JackieLikesVariety]

I'm going to park this (https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759)here. It's 5,000 words and worth your time.

Because I don't believe in just posting URLs cold, here's a sample from the essay, which is called, "Confessions of a Former Bastard Cop." Some of you will feel especially validated after reading it, and you should. You've been right all along.



And that's not even the best part. Believe me, this is a real eye-opener.

Pssst (https://www.giraffeboards.com/showpost.php?p=1617737&postcount=209). ;)


I was reading the dope thread about this and I see there are those who are certain it's not really written by a cop. because it talks about all the things protesters say! how suspicious!

[BrickaBracka]

Pssst (https://www.giraffeboards.com/showpost.php?p=1617737&postcount=209). ;)


I was reading the dope thread about this and I see there are those who are certain it's not really written by a cop. because it talks about all the things protesters say! how suspicious!

For me it feels like one of those things you really don't want to be so ... confirmed. Ya know?

It makes me skeptical not in a too-good-to-be-true kind of way, but in the version of that where it's too-awful-to-be-true even though ... it is ... and I just sigh with the kind of disappointment a parent would have when they walk in on their kid with a matchbox car stuck up their ass. You always knew that kid was a fuckin weird dumbass ... but good god damnit you're my kid and I have to deal with you now what. the. fuck.

[SmartAleq]

I used to belong to a gym that gave big discounts to cops and firefighters so I worked out with a LOT of cops and have had way too many go arounds with them from the other side of things--being a domestic abuse survivor means a bunch of unsatisfactory dealings with cops who come out on a domestic disturbance call--and everything he says rings way too true. A lot of cops develop almost a split personality to deal with the cognitive dissonance of what they're inculcated with at work vs what they know of the real people in their lives. Makes 'em fucking crazy after a while if they weren't already a bit nuts.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Hm. So cops lie to the media about businesses being extorted in the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ) --> police chief hears about extortion --> police chief tells media about extortion?


It's almost like there's a bad-faith cycle between police and some in the news media! Imagine that!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49999126707_2e368bd366.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jbfAqK)

Source: Seattle Times https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/seattle-area-protests-updates-for-thursday-june-11/

(but may be behind a paywall, so screenshotted for you here)

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

I didn't include in the screenshot the part of the article where the Times * does a good job of tracking down the source of these "rumors"...

Ari Hoffman, a former conservative candidate for Seattle City Council, quoted unnamed police officers about the extortion rumors on a conservative blog he writes for. He claims to have also heard these rumors on conservative talk radio.

Also Andy Ngo, who is editor at that conservative blog, and a generally pro-fascist writer from Portland, has tweeted these rumors.


Not surprising that the rumors are circulating, but interesting that police are taking information from these people seriously.




*If you know the Seattle Times, you're as shocked as I am that they included this part. I thought I'd have to write them off, but they are occasionally showing a ray of hope.

[Jaglavak]

Ari Hoffman, a former conservative candidate for Seattle City Council, quoted unnamed police officers about the extortion rumors on a conservative blog he writes for. He claims to have also heard these rumors on conservative talk radio.

How would you write up those quotes in standard MLA Citation Format? I can't seem to find it in the handbook.

[mjmlabs]

Dave Chappelle dropped a surprise half-hour on Netflix yesterday.

It's not really comedy, although I did literally laugh out loud twice.

It's called 8:46, it's very much NSFW, and I posted it over here in the YouTube corner, where YouTube things belong, I guess: https://www.giraffeboards.com/showthread.php?p=1618337#post1618337

[JackieLikesVariety]

Pssst (https://www.giraffeboards.com/showpost.php?p=1617737&postcount=209). ;)


I was reading the dope thread about this and I see there are those who are certain it's not really written by a cop. because it talks about all the things protesters say! how suspicious!


I asked an extremely wise person who is both a person of color and former law enforcement (SoCal) what they thought of it and then, when I read their reply, got the OK to share it:

IMHO…it’s pretty close to that bad.

A few thoughts...there are probably cops who don’t do ANY of those things. But...since the Supreme Court decided that it’s okay for cops to lie while speaking to/questioning suspects/persons of interest, then the first nine items on that list have been sanctioned by our government and are taught in Peace Officer Standards and Training classes.

There are some pretty “straight arrow” types who are otherwise decent humans. They often use the cop job as a stepping stone, a way to put food on the table while going to law school or while finding other “inspector” type gigs with the same city or county...for many, it’s years added to the pension formula. So, they ALWAYS need cops. Easier job to get. But then an “Inspector“ position in the Zoning Department shows up and there that cop goes.

They get exposed to stuff they are not interested in and not really trained to handle, night after night. They conclude that all persons matching the demographic of the area they serve are evil. IOW, cops working Chinatown decide that Asians are the worst people. But the cops working the Latino district in East LA say those are the worst humans. Meanwhile, in South Central LA, primarily Black residents are the very most worse, according to the cops who work there.

And, those training classes he mentions as worthless are mostly worthless, because the culture in place requires an all out group rejection of everything being taught. Those trainers should get Hazard Pay. Law Enforcement Administration cannot strategize its way out of this mess by forcing everyone into classes. An oft-quoted expert on, I think, organizational psych, said, “Culture eats strategy for breakfast.”

[Anacanapuna]

I'll admit that I did a double-take when I got to the part where capitalism requires a permanent underclass to assure a supply of cheap labor. That's straight out of a "radical sociology" class I had in college back in the early '80s. I've queried Snopes, but they haven't gotten back to me, and I haven't seen it on that website yet. So, yeah, almost "too good to be true."

OTOH, my father was a policeman for 25 years. I did not see him in that essay.

[Jaglavak]

Yeah, that and a few other things make it read more like a manifesto. Enough grains of truth embedded to make it believable. Not to say I necessarily disagree at least on some points.

[Glazer]

I'll admit that I did a double-take when I got to the part where capitalism requires a permanent underclass to assure a supply of cheap labor. That's straight out of a "radical sociology" class I had in college back in the early '80s. I've queried Snopes, but they haven't gotten back to me, and I haven't seen it on that website yet. So, yeah, almost "too good to be true."

OTOH, my father was a policeman for 25 years. I did not see him in that essay.

There's a huge difference between a police department in a town like yours and a department in LA or Baltimore. That's why white suburban america has a hard time believing what the police are like in occupied neighborhoods.

[SmartAleq]

Not to mention that your dad was likely already retired by the time the hypermilitarization of police departments really got into full swing.

[BrickaBracka]

OTOH, my father was a policeman for 25 years. I did not see him in that essay.

Some people are fortunate enough to live in Mayberry and never face the real difficult moral dilemmas discussed in that piece. So they have the good fortune of being able to say they had a good clean career free of any reproach.

Some people are faced with those dilemmas but they sidestep / ignore / condone them because they don't feel like they have the power to change it - or they don't want to jeopardize their own position by engaging with the bad apples.

It's that old "is an act of omission as bad as an act of commission" thing coming round again...

[JackieLikesVariety]

There's a huge difference between a police department in a town like yours and a department in LA or Baltimore. That's why white suburban america has a hard time believing what the police are like in occupied neighborhoods.

this

[Zeener Diode]

Link. (https://www.autoblog.com/2020/06/10/warren-michigan-police-pin-amazon-driver-parking/?utm_source=spotim&utm_medium=spotim_recirculation)

Police in a Detroit suburb are under fire after viral video emerged of an officer pinning a black Amazon delivery driver to the ground during an arrest after he had parked his delivery van on the wrong side of the street while delivering a package. The officer has reportedly been placed on paid leave while an internal investigation is under way.

Fox 2 reports that Dwyer is now recommending felony charges for the driver of resisting arrest, failing to obey a lawful command and failure to produce a driver’s license. The driver was arrested and taken away, and another Amazon employee had to come and retrieve the delivery van.

The station quoted resident Diana Gouim as saying the driver had put the package in her hands.

“And he was so polite to my neighbor, he offered to put it on the chair for her because it was heavy," said neighbor Geri Cheatham. She said of the police response with backup officers, “It was ridiculous for one little kid that was the size of me."

“We, several of the neighbors, spoke with the officer saying the kid hasn't done anything and the cop was like, well, 'He was parked the wrong way,'” said another witness, Jim Michaels.

“He was scared. He was scared. I don’t blame him. My heart was pounding because it could have gotten out of control totally,” Cheatham said.

I delivered for ABX, DHL, and FedEx for nearly 20 years. I would park on the wrong side of the street, on a corner, double-park, often blocking traffic (briefly). Occasionally an auditor would be riding with me. Never have I been told not to do this, even when in view of police. Never has an officer approached me, demanding to see my license while I'm making a delivery. Full disclosure: I am white. BLM

[Detroit Hoser]

Sterlingtucky in fucking Macomb County, which now ranks Most Corrupt even ahead of Wayne County and Detroit, is whiter and redneckier than you ever want to know.

[3acres]

This video mashup has been floating around for a couple of days.

_eXHuKaTCns

I think they're thugs and I'm not going to stop thinking that till they change their behavior. And it goes to the top. We know they abuse the few officers who do try to stop the thugs. More police commissioners, chiefs, and captains need to get fired.

[Detroit Hoser]

Agreed. I used to be in the "there are good cops, too" crowd, and of course there are...but when they are so outnumbered by legal thugs, does it matter than there's a smattering of conscientious ones here and there?

[mjmlabs]

I imagine Christopher Dorner would have something very interesting to say about the "good cops" thing. I mean, if. But no.

[Detroit Hoser]

Holy crap, I was just thinking about that guy the other day, and during the hunt for him how the cops shot up and blew away a newspaper deliverer who was just trying to deliver the damn paper, all because the cops couldn't be bothered with due diligence.

[BrickaBracka]

This video mashup has been floating around for a couple of days.

_eXHuKaTCns

I think they're thugs and I'm not going to stop thinking that till they change their behavior. And it goes to the top. We know they abuse the few officers who do try to stop the thugs. More police commissioners, chiefs, and captains need to get fired.

"How about a little respect?!"

I don't think "Fuck the police" goes quite far enough.

How about fuck you, fuck your brothers in uniform, fuck your hopes and dreams, fuck your bad days and your good days, fuck your favorite ice cream flavor, fuck your badge, fuck your power trips, fuck your itchy hemorrhoids, fuck your barber, fuck your dog, fuck everything about you - you little piece of trash.

This isn't a person who could ever earn respect. Everything about him would need to be torn down completely and rebuilt from the ground up.

He is the definition of the word "incorrigible".

[SmartAleq]

Those pansy ass fucks seriously piss me off--any retail worker takes more shit from customers in a day than those tender little wimps with their hurted feefees take in a year and amazingly enough the retail workers do not shoot people. Much. Then those heroes in blue backshoot people who panic and run from them because they're too fat and out of shape to chase anyone down. This is not a fucking video game, you shitbirds, this is real life and real people you're killing. I'm not gonna be surprised in the slightest if hunting season on cops opens up right quick. That's one way to thin the herd and if they don't stop escalating they're gonna be reaping the biggest fucking whirlwind you ever saw.

[Dragonlady]

I hope it doesn't come to that.
But I hope for a "covers all" psych evaluation. If you don't pass, you find another kind of work. From the top brass and union officials right on down.
A big part of the problem, IMHO, is that being a violent bully is ok with their hiring practices.

[SmartAleq]

Well, we have to keep in mind that a federal court agrees (https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-court-ruled-you-can-be-too-smart-to-be-a-cop/5420630) that it's okay only to hire the dumb ones and bar people who are "too smart" from joining the force. They say it's because smart people will get bored and leave but I surmise it has a lot more to do with dumb people being easier to bamboozle and being more likely to follow orders unquestioningly. This is not a good idea for those of us on the wrong end of the gun.

[teela brown]

We took a drive into Silicon Valley yesterday to run an errand. In Mountain View, on El Camino Real, we saw a lot of people waiting in a long line. As we passed, we saw what they were lining up for: a gun store. Fifty or more people champing at the bit to buy guns at a tiny store. In techie land.

[Dragonlady]

Im from Redwood City and I know exactly where you mean, although many years past. I can see the El in my mind. Holy crap - I can't imagine Techland arming up.

[BrickaBracka]

It's times like these that I am reinforced in my choices to NOT buy a gun.

#1 - when shit goes down, trading bullets isn't going to save you. So I may as well save money now.

#2 - there's bound to be a corpse somewhere with a gun on it if I really need one should #1 come to pass.

[Lounsbury]

In other words, they were farmers who managed to make enough money not to be living at the edge of starvation?

Yes, in fact if one looks at the actual economic history rather than hard Left spin. The stereotypical joke of the Russian farmers and the two cows (shoots his neighbour's cow) has roots in that social era.

Of course the Soviets used such terms as a political excuse to commit near genocide in the Ukraine and in the non Russian republics.

Anyone using the term Kulak lacks any moral bearing or is a political idiot - like using Jewish associated anti-capitalist smear terms (Oh I meant the pre-Holocaust meaning...).

[Anacanapuna]

OTOH, my father was a policeman for 25 years. I did not see him in that essay.

Some people are fortunate enough to live in Mayberry and never face the real difficult moral dilemmas discussed in that piece. So they have the good fortune of being able to say they had a good clean career free of any reproach.I can assure you we do not live in Mayberry. Every community has its dark side, mine no less than yours.

[BrickaBracka]

Some people are fortunate enough to live in Mayberry and never face the real difficult moral dilemmas discussed in that piece. So they have the good fortune of being able to say they had a good clean career free of any reproach.I can assure you we do not live in Mayberry. Every community has its dark side, mine no less than yours.

I do not suggest that your community is or was Mayberry. But that's about the only way you can have a career in law enforcement today without either A) committing legal atrocities or B) condoning them. Gotta police a neighborhood without them...

It was about the most gentle way I could think to broach the subject of your father being a policeman for 25 years but him not being represented in that essay. Nobody wants to think of their family that way, and you say you didn't see him in that essay. Your view of the man is singular, there are likely others who might agree with yours, and I'm not trying to cast doubt on your memories of a man.

Unfortunately all members of a given system are party to that system's outcome, for good or bad. We didn't get to where we are today because suddenly there was a wave of bad actions but everything prior to X date was ideal and wonderful.

As I said, is an act of omission as bad as an act of commission? That's not always cut and dry, but it is clear, in the absence of the "good cops" stopping the "bad cops", we end up with only bad cops (from the public's perspective). When average citizens can no longer trust that any given officer is a "good cop", then all interactions with police eventually become bad.

I doubt there's any real benefit to be had by trying to go back and vilify those who we once perceived as good men. It's like monday morning quarterbacking. But the truth is clear today - if things don't change, there won't be any more Anacanapuna fathers around that we could point to and say "They're not all assholes".

Without substantive reforms - and I mean actually destroying the current police and re-forming a wholly new and separate police, with a new set of expectations, a new set of regulations, and a new method of training - the presence of "good cops" in the police force is absolutely irrelevant.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

In case anyone thinks it's just some anonymous guy writing a medium.com piece - it really isn't:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50011237622_9a85ab5d39_w.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jcjEzC)


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50010979541_62bfbf1a67_w.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jcikRX)


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50010982366_e8e7716f32_w.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jcimGE)



It's a really fucked-up system, and I don't know that there's very much that's salvageable. There are some good things I've heard about smaller departments being systematically better, but it's hard to be sure.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Link to the Twitter thread above: https://twitter.com/mobinfiltrator/status/1271432151142223872

[Swammerdami]

I was reading the dope thread about this and I see there are those who are certain it's not really written by a cop. because it talks about all the things protesters say! how suspicious!

(I no longer participate in political threads at the Other Message-Board. I hope I'm still among friends here.)

I also worry about "false flag" articles. (Our right-wing enemies are fond of them; as just one of hundreds of examples, recall how Dubya's shirking of his military duties — a factual story that called his suitability into question — was deflected by "leaking" forgeries to Dan Rather; this helped Dubya's re-election victory over Kerry.)

But FWIW the "Bastard Cop" confession has the ring of truth to me. The incidents and tone are what I would expect if it were real. (It might have borrowed from fellows' stories. It seems almost certain that there are thousands of cops who feel like this one, mostly reluctant to speak out.)