R.I.P. Roe v. Wade

[mjmlabs]

We're gonna need a thread for the Roe v. Wade wake and appurtenant discussion. Here's one.

My top-of-the-head 2¢: Sure am hoping this plus the J6 hearings can flip the forecast "red wave" midterms into a blue wave.

[What Exit?]

...

My top-of-the-head 2¢: Sure am hoping this plus the J6 hearings can flip the forecast "red wave" midterms into a blue wave.
This would be the only good result from this horrible court. They might energize an anti-bullshit backlash.

[Sputnik]

I hope everyone realizes that this is a legacy of trump's presidency. Women Everyone everywhere need to vote the blue line regardless of the candidates.

[SmartAleq]

Won't make a fucking lick of difference. Red, blue, doesn't matter. We haven't even been able to get the Equal Rights Amendment ratified since, what, '72? Dem supermajorities including SCOTUS have come and gone with nothing being done to ensconce Roe into federal law, including motherfucking lying shit smooth criminal Obama who ran on it as a campaign plank. Abortion is a red meat issue for both side, no fucking chance anyone's going to let it get settled for once and all--right up until the point when over half the citizens of this country get fed up and start shanking judges in their kidneys. Keep it up, guys, every one of you has to sleep sometime and women are...everywhere.

[What Exit?]

Besides the violence part of that, the other issue is that women are usually the leading participants of the pro-life movement. The Politicians just take advantage of it.

[asahi]

I don't know...it's not like the Republicans have hidden their contempt for women's reproductive rights these last 50 years. They've been killing abortion by a thousand small cuts in many places, such that Roe v Wade - and thus, today's ruling - has become effectively moot in some states.

Access to birth control and ingestible abortifacients, as well as the fact that abortion has been legal (even if hard to obtain) in most states, has made abortion much less of an election issue than it would have been in the 1970s and 80s.

What's crazy about the ruling, and what is telling about the right wing extremist hacking of this judiciary, is the fact that Mississippi wasn't even arguing to reverse Roe v Wade. In typical Scalia fashion, however, Alito just decided to kick the door down on his own.

Better yet, Clarence Uncle Thomas decided it wasn't enough to torch Roe v Wade. He telegraphed where the Court is going next: gay marriage - indeed, gay civil liberties - will die in the hands of these justices. According to these judges, there's no more right to privacy. Period.

So, what the Court is essentially saying, a man (emphasis on that sex with the penis) can go out to their nearest gun show and come back with a truck full of military style assault weapons to "defend" themselves, and oh what the hell, if you're a white man especially, sheeeiit, you can go parading around town with them if ya like. But if a woman (emphasis on that sex with a vagina) has to defend her health or her life by terminating her pregnancy, she's just...fucked.

[SmartAleq]

Well, they also affirmed we have the right to carry guns everywhere we go so I expect a lot of dead wannabe rapists in the near future.

And "women" are not the forefront of the forced birther movement, it's evangelical Christians of both sexes. And we'll just see how those women feel when they can no longer slope off on the QT for their only moral abortions. If the prolapses don't get them the postpartum psychosis will.

[mjmlabs]

Cynical note to self: Invest in companies marketing low-recoil pistols to women.

On a note far more serious, here's the press release (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0428/0465/files/RVW_TST_Response_3.pdf) issued by The Satanic Temple (https://thesatanictemple.com/) in response to today's ruling:

ROE V WADE AND THE SATANIC TEMPLE
RELIGIOUS REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS

The news that Roe v Wade has been overturned is extremely distressing. The Satanic Temple (TST) has nevertheless positioned itself to try to protect religious abortion access for our members.

In states that continue to provide abortion services, we will take steps, including legal action, to ensure our members do not have to endure hindrances to access. That includes waiting periods and unnecessary medical procedures. In addition, we will continue to demand that states do not require medical practitioners to withhold medical information or that patients are not forced to bury or cremate fetal remains. Lastly, in states that require mandatory abortion counseling documents, we will be providing our own counseling, which we are demanding be recognized by states as a valid alternative.

In states that outlaw abortion but grant exceptions for instances of incest and rape, then, consistent with the Supreme Court's ruling in Fulton v. City of Philadelphia, TST members should be permitted a religious exception to perform TST's religious abortion ritual. We will have to sue those states to affirm our civil rights, but the law is clearly on our side. States that outlaw abortion and do not grant exceptions present more significant challenges. You can read about our current lawsuits here:
https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/legal-action.

TST also has a number of plans that we will be undertaking quite soon. First, we will be suing the FDA to permit TST unrestricted access to Mifepristone and Misoprostol for use under medical supervision as part of our religious abortion ritual. This request is being made under Federal RFRA. Unfettered access to these drugs would be a considerable step toward enabling TST to perform our abortion ritual without government interference. Again, the law is clearly on our side, but we are gearing up for a legal battle.

Lastly, TST is researching the possibility of creating its own religious abortion facilities. We will provide more information about this plan as it develops.

If you are interested in volunteering, please don't hesitate to reach out to RRR@thesatanictemple.com. You can support TST here: https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/fundraiser

We are committed to assisting our members, and we appreciate the loyalty and support we receive.

For further questions, contact karen@thesatanictemple.com

[Detroit Hoser]

And "women" are not the forefront of the forced birther movement, it's evangelical Christians of both sexes. And we'll just see how those women feel when they can no longer slope off on the QT for their only moral abortions.

Yup.

It's appalling that abortion has been essentially banned before AK-47s and other assault rifles. I suppose the SCOTUS is thinking that if women can just be patient the problem will solve itself between the ages of 5 and 18.

You know, school-age.

[Sputnik]

Won't make a fucking lick of difference. Red, blue, doesn't matter.

I disagree. When both houses of Congress are solidly blue, legislation restoring a woman's right to choose can pass the house and senate and become law. Too many red assholes prevents this now. Vote the blue line.

[thorny locust]

Won't make a fucking lick of difference. Red, blue, doesn't matter. .

You don't think it made any difference that Trump got elected and was able to stack the Court in the fashion that led to this ruling?

[SmartAleq]

Oh FFS people, do you not remember Obama CAMPAIGNING THAT HE WOULD FIRST THING CODIFY ROE INTO LAW? He had a supermajority, filibuster proof Congress AND SCOTUS but somehow after election abortion rights were "not a priority." He then fiddle fucked away the majorities and spent the next six years "battling" the Congress he helped create.

I realize Trump Derangement Syndrome is still in full spate but don't try to piss on my leg and tell me it's spring rain. The Democrats have fiddley fucked away every advantage and every opportunity to codify Roe into settled law and they've been doing it for fucking decades. Just the same way they've campaigned on health care reform then fiddley fucked that into meaningless rearrangement of deck chairs on the global Titanic. Try casting your brains back into the mists of time BEFORE THE ORANGE BAD MAN and recognize the blue fuckers use you just as much as the red fuckers use their useful idiots.

How about this, y'all PayPal me a quarter for every fundraising begging email you get promising that THIS TIME WE SWEARZ we're gonna "fight" for abortion rights. I'll be able to retire in luxury and move to a sane country in a matter of weeks.

Left wing, right wing, takes both to fly the fucking bird.

[Ludovic]

Won't make a fucking lick of difference. Red, blue, doesn't matter. .

You don't think it made any difference that Trump got elected and was able to stack the Court in the fashion that led to this ruling?

So I take it the answer is "yes. Clinton certainly would have appointed justices that would have overturned Roe v. Wade." That certainly is a point of view.

[Sputnik]

The bird of state will fly just fine with 2 left wings. I read that one justice wants to revisit same sex marriage. Prepare to start laying down basic human rights to appease Thomas and the beer bro.

[mjmlabs]

I'm hoping some GlobalMegaCorp bidnisses in pro-bidniss, anti-choice states start pulling up stakes and relocating to a state that doesn't view their pregnancy-possible employees as brood mares. I'm not holding my breath waiting, but I am hoping (if not "hopeful" per se).

[asahi]

Oh FFS people, do you not remember Obama CAMPAIGNING THAT HE WOULD FIRST THING CODIFY ROE INTO LAW? He had a supermajority, filibuster proof Congress AND SCOTUS but somehow after election abortion rights were "not a priority." He then fiddle fucked away the majorities and spent the next six years "battling" the Congress he helped create.

I realize Trump Derangement Syndrome is still in full spate but don't try to piss on my leg and tell me it's spring rain. The Democrats have fiddley fucked away every advantage and every opportunity to codify Roe into settled law and they've been doing it for fucking decades. Just the same way they've campaigned on health care reform then fiddley fucked that into meaningless rearrangement of deck chairs on the global Titanic. Try casting your brains back into the mists of time BEFORE THE ORANGE BAD MAN and recognize the blue fuckers use you just as much as the red fuckers use their useful idiots.

How about this, y'all PayPal me a quarter for every fundraising begging email you get promising that THIS TIME WE SWEARZ we're gonna "fight" for abortion rights. I'll be able to retire in luxury and move to a sane country in a matter of weeks.

Left wing, right wing, takes both to fly the fucking bird.

Really weird you're aiming your anger at the president who nominated two women to the SCOTUS and tried to nominate Garland, only to be blocked by a rigged Senate, which then installed 3 radical ideologues. Yeah, get pissed at Obama and then claim they're all the same.

Seriously, one of the stupidest fucking takes I've read in a while. I know you're pissed but that's no excuse for losing your common sense.

[asahi]

I'm hoping some GlobalMegaCorp bidnisses in pro-bidniss, anti-choice states start pulling up stakes and relocating to a state that doesn't view their pregnancy-possible employees as brood mares. I'm not holding my breath waiting, but I am hoping (if not "hopeful" per se).

It's nice to dream but if they're thinking strictly in business terms, they're not gonna touch this.

It's up to people in states across the country to get the fuck off of tik tok and instagram, and get politically active and just vote against anyone with an R next to the name. It's that simple. I don't know why so-called 'independents' and centrists believe in this bipartisan shit. You'd think after they tried to burn the Capitol down the little light bulb might start to flicker, but I guess not.

Sometimes, people have to personally lose something before they become angry enough to wake up and do something about it I guess. I'm not convinced that people are necessarily going to have Roe v Wade in mind when they go to the polls. It's not real enough yet. It'll get real when one of these conservatard states decides to go after birth control. Then it'll start getting real. And maybe, just maybe we'll start doing something about it -- if we still have a democratic option by that point.

[mjmlabs]

Oh FFS people, do you not remember Obama CAMPAIGNING THAT HE WOULD FIRST THING CODIFY ROE INTO LAW? He had a supermajority, filibuster proof Congress AND SCOTUS but somehow after election abortion rights were "not a priority." He then fiddle fucked away the majorities and spent the next six years "battling" the Congress he helped create.
I do remember that. And it pissed me off then, and it still does.

But I also remember that he inherited The Great Recession and spent much of his political capital steering us to the fastest recovery ever.

So while I am still super-pissed about that inaction, I'm also reminded that politics is said to be "the art of the possible." 44 is still "one of The Good Guys" in my book.

[mjmlabs]

I'm hoping some GlobalMegaCorp bidnisses in pro-bidniss, anti-choice states start pulling up stakes and relocating to a state that doesn't view their pregnancy-possible employees as brood mares. I'm not holding my breath waiting, but I am hoping (if not "hopeful" per se).

It's nice to dream but if they're thinking strictly in business terms, they're not gonna touch this.
I do not share your certainty. These GlobalMegaCorp types already provide travel reimbursements for employees who need to go out of state for medical services: These US companies will cover travel costs for employees who need an abortion (https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/24/tech/companies-abortion-reaction/index.html)

It's not out of the question that, viewed solely through Accounting Goggles, moving from a Bible Belt state to a more libertarian one might actually be a net positive (when accounting for the monetary value of public goodwill, and yes, also public ill will).

But I'm :pure: rn so I might not actually know what I'm talking about.

#KeepHopeAlive

[asahi]

It's nice to dream but if they're thinking strictly in business terms, they're not gonna touch this.
I do not share your certainty. These GlobalMegaCorp types already provide travel reimbursements for employees who need to go out of state for medical services: These US companies will cover travel costs for employees who need an abortion (https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/24/tech/companies-abortion-reaction/index.html)

It's not out of the question that, viewed solely through Accounting Goggles, moving from a Bible Belt state to a more libertarian one might actually be a net positive (when accounting for the monetary value of public goodwill, and yes, also public ill will).

But I'm :pure: rn so I might not actually know what I'm talking about.

#KeepHopeAlive

Quietly providing "care" is one thing; publicly pulling up the stakes and moving to one of maybe three or four reliably blue states like CA, NY, or IL is quite another.

[mjmlabs]

I do not share your certainty. These GlobalMegaCorp types already provide travel reimbursements for employees who need to go out of state for medical services: These US companies will cover travel costs for employees who need an abortion (https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/24/tech/companies-abortion-reaction/index.html)

It's not out of the question that, viewed solely through Accounting Goggles, moving from a Bible Belt state to a more libertarian one might actually be a net positive (when accounting for the monetary value of public goodwill, and yes, also public ill will).

But I'm :pure: rn so I might not actually know what I'm talking about.

#KeepHopeAlive

Quietly providing "care" is one thing; publicly pulling up the stakes and moving to one of maybe three or four reliably blue states like CA, NY, or IL is quite another.
And so's shutting down the regional offices and warehouses in Texahomasas in a reorg, while adding such elsewhere. I'd be buying office buildings in Boulder right now if I ran an REIT.

[asahi]

Quietly providing "care" is one thing; publicly pulling up the stakes and moving to one of maybe three or four reliably blue states like CA, NY, or IL is quite another.
And so's shutting down the regional offices and warehouses in Texabraskasas in a reorg, while adding such elsewhere. I'd be buying office buildings in Boulder right now if I ran an REIT.

It's corporate America that bankrolled the interests that loaded the bench with these fuckers. Did Exxon, Disney, Microsoft, Google, Meta want Roe v Wade overturned? No, maybe not, but they wanted to control the political system to protect their interests - union busting, tax loopholes, stock buybacks, getting gnatty little government regulators out of their crotch. Mission accomplished.

Roe v Wade's just a side effect. They do not give a drop of ant piss about whether their female employees can get an abortion. They'd rather they just not have to deal with this "women's stuff" in the first place. Hoping that corporate America is gonna some how level our playing field? Nice thought, but not one based in reality.

If we want to do something about the corruption of SCOTUS, we're going to have to get collectively pissed off enough to do something about it. There are lots of statewide races this fall. Vote, and FFS, just vote against anyone with an R buy his/her name. Keep it simple.

[mjmlabs]

Rebecca Traister: The Necessity Of Hope In Post-Roe America

"This is bad, it’s horrible, and it will get worse," says @rtraister. "It is incumbent on us therefore to use hope not as some feel-good measure. But to regard it as a tactical necessity and a moral and civic responsibility. To feel the hope and keep moving and keep fighting."

bYlhrboeXvo

#KeepHopeAlive

[asahi]

Protests are all good, but sustain it.

I remember lots of pink-hat women's march protests in January 2017. Made for lots of social media buzz as Trump was entering office. After that? When, you know, Trump was actually, one by one, stacking the Court? No - fucking - protests.

We gotta learn how to do this. It's not by getting social media buzz. It requires getting fucking pissed off and getting enraged. And it requires lots of chicken little hyperbole. Sorry, had to go there, but that's what it requires.

The time to go nutso with rage isn't *after* they've taken your shit from you. It's while they're trying to.

Do you all finally fucking get it now? Or do they need to take *all* of your liberties away from you before you wake the fuck up?

[mjmlabs]

Not sure you're helping.

#KeepHopeAlive

[asahi]

Not sure you're helping.

#KeepHopeAlive

Awww, you want positivity. You want hope. You hope that the corporations that helped fund the GOP put that SCOTUS bench together will suddenly have a conscience because women's health.

Bruh, stop being so fucking naive. I know I'm being an asshole. I was an asshole on SD and they couldn't take it, so I ended up here.

You can't watch your rights and your country being destroyed...and not be an asshole about it. You have to be a shithead.

[mjmlabs]

This ain't the Durp. Learn to read the room.

[AHunter3]

Next blog post is going to be "Patriarchy" i.e., Chapter 4: The Patriarchy Strikes Back

We told you so. It's not about abortion per se, it's about returning us to patriarchy, pre-feminism. And all the Otherisms like racism that are part and parcel of it. And folks said "You're pontificating. You're making it into a bigger thing than it really is. Seriously, the world is not all about women's oppression. I don't mean it doesn't matter or isn't important but it's just a part of the picture".

But the radical feminists said "It is the big picture. The entire history of social politics is whether there is sexual equality or there is not. All the other stuff is a subset of it. Patriarchy means old men got young men by the balls by first controlling women, hence sex, as a commodity. Patriarchy means controlling reproduction too, anchoring it to individual means of supporting the children. Patriarchy is a departure from tribal / communal responsibility for the children in a general sense. It isn't done just to divest general responsibility for children, though; it is done because it diverts so much individual young people's energy into channels so that their lives are obsessed with finding a relevant mating opportunity once those channels have been significantly narrowed. It also makes women and men adversaries, necessarily fearful of each other's motivations. However much she loves and cares for you, her social situation means she has to find a socially and financially stable partner because children. He find you fascinating and attractive but he is not wanting to be roped into supporting children just in order to get close to you.

Birth control and abortion meant it didn't have to be that way.

They don't like that shift.

I'd like to point out that pre-patriarchy it was tribal responsibility for the children. And no complex property to hand down. Pre-patriarchy was largely pre-agriculture.

What we know is that we, as a species, can exist multiple ways, can configure ourselves multiple ways. We adjust. It's not all hard-wiring. Ther are some hard-wired things but they can be rendered in a lot of different ways.

Patriarchy is one way. Feminism and associated social movements for equality gave us a different world. Some folks don't like it at all and they're doing their last-stand best to return us to the previous world. The long-term odds are against them but they're scaring the shit out of me to be honest about it.

[asahi]

Next blog post is going to be "Patriarchy" i.e., Chapter 4: The Patriarchy Strikes Back

We told you so. It's not about abortion per se, it's about returning us to patriarchy, pre-feminism. And all the Otherisms like racism that are part and parcel of it. And folks said "You're pontificating. You're making it into a bigger thing than it really is. Seriously, the world is not all about women's oppression. I don't mean it doesn't matter or isn't important but it's just a part of the picture".

But the radical feminists said "It is the big picture. The entire history of social politics is whether there is sexual equality or there is not. All the other stuff is a subset of it. Patriarchy means old men got young men by the balls by first controlling women, hence sex, as a commodity. Patriarchy means controlling reproduction too, anchoring it to individual means of supporting the children. Patriarchy is a departure from tribal / communal responsibility for the children in a general sense. It isn't done just to divest general responsibility for children, though; it is done because it diverts so much individual young people's energy into channels so that their lives are obsessed with finding a relevant mating opportunity once those channels have been significantly narrowed. It also makes women and men adversaries, necessarily fearful of each other's motivations. However much she loves and cares for you, her social situation means she has to find a socially and financially stable partner because children. He find you fascinating and attractive but he is not wanting to be roped into supporting children just in order to get close to you.

Birth control and abortion meant it didn't have to be that way.

They don't like that shift.

I'd like to point out that pre-patriarchy it was tribal responsibility for the children. And no complex property to hand down. Pre-patriarchy was largely pre-agriculture.

What we know is that we, as a species, can exist multiple ways, can configure ourselves multiple ways. We adjust. It's not all hard-wiring. Ther are some hard-wired things but they can be rendered in a lot of different ways.

Patriarchy is one way. Feminism and associated social movements for equality gave us a different world. Some folks don't like it at all and they're doing their last-stand best to return us to the previous world. The long-term odds are against them but they're scaring the shit out of me to be honest about it.

^ +1

Nice post.

[Rat Diva]

As a Pennsylvanian, I'm white-knuckling until November. For governor, we have Josh Shapiro, who has been the state's Attorney General who is firmly on the side of the angels, having helped block previous attempts at limiting access to birth control, Trump's travel Muslim ban, and repeated attempts to steal the 2020 election. He's quiet, competent, and low-key and I'm worried that in these days of howling assholes he's fucked.

Howling assholes like the Republiscum candidate for governor, Doug Trumpfelching Mastriano, who is on record as saying that My Body, My Choice is "complete nonsense" and wants to ban all abortions, with no exceptions for rape and incest. He also wants to force everyone in the state to re-register to vote, even though that's illegal under Federal law.

For senator, we have John Fetterman, a big, loud, tough Rust Belt liberal progressive and he's awesome. He's also against Dr. Mehmet Fucking Oz, may god have mercy on our souls.

If either Shapiro or Fetterman lose in November, I swore I'd never leave my house and my job and my hometown, I'm going to seriously contemplate getting the fuck out of the Commonwealth of Gilead.

[Pencil]

And, as with all other great empires in history, the cracks at the foundation are getting wider.

I don't have an immediate dog in this fight, but... conservative loons are sniffing around our foundation too and they get encouraged when something this big happens. All these ratf*ckers always imagine themselves to be at the top and that they don't really have to bother about rules. It's just to keep the plebs down and consolidating their tiny sliver of power.

But eroding the foundation will open opportunities for even bigger ratf*ckers. And then the current ratf*ckers are in for a nasty surprise.


I, for one, will not welcome our new sinoist** overlords.

*Sorry Ratty.
**Yes, sinoist.

[asahi]

As a Pennsylvanian, I'm white-knuckling until November. For governor, we have Josh Shapiro, who has been the state's Attorney General who is firmly on the side of the angels, having helped block previous attempts at limiting access to birth control, Trump's travel Muslim ban, and repeated attempts to steal the 2020 election. He's quiet, competent, and low-key and I'm worried that in these days of howling assholes he's fucked.

Howling assholes like the Republiscum candidate for governor, Doug Trumpfelching Mastriano, who is on record as saying that My Body, My Choice is "complete nonsense" and wants to ban all abortions, with no exceptions for rape and incest. He also wants to force everyone in the state to re-register to vote, even though that's illegal under Federal law.

For senator, we have John Fetterman, a big, loud, tough Rust Belt liberal progressive and he's awesome. He's also against Dr. Mehmet Fucking Oz, may god have mercy on our souls.

If either Shapiro or Fetterman lose in November, I swore I'd never leave my house and my job and my hometown, I'm going to seriously contemplate getting the fuck out of the Commonwealth of Gilead.

Nancy Pelosi is right, though: the Republicans want a federal ban on abortion, too. They are not satisfied with merely overturning Roe v Wade.

This whole movement against abortion is part of a larger (predominately ethno-nationalist) movement of traditionalism. It's about returning to a more "traditional" America, one that had God in schools and didn't let "showboating" gays strut around in funny outfits. (Not my beliefs, just for the record)

People might wonder, well who but Christians would vote for such nonsense? Unfortunately, there are men out there of all stripe, many of whom aren't even religious, who believe that the world has gone to hell because women can earn more money than they do. They think that women are taking over and displacing men. Just as white men and women feel Blacks and foreigners are displacing them entirely. There's been much made of Tucker Carlson and his touting of the so-called Great Replacement theory. Parallel to that is what I'd call the Great Displacement. Debasing women appeals to a lot of men who aren't happy with their lives.

[Sputnik]

Is it too early to call for defunding SCOTUS?

[JackieLikesVariety]

If either Shapiro or Fetterman lose in November, I swore I'd never leave my house and my job and my hometown, I'm going to seriously contemplate getting the fuck out of the Commonwealth of Gilead.

the PNW is nice in a lot of ways. :)

[running coach]

Dinsdale
You know, as unfortunate as this recent decision is, women - and America - survived somehow for near a couple hundred years w/ abortion largely illegal.

:linky: (https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/28?u=running_coach)

[Detroit Hoser]

Sure, until he finds his own daughter crumpled on the floor while hemorrhaging copious amounts of blood from the abortion she gave herself.

[running coach]

Sure, until he finds his own daughter crumpled on the floor while hemorrhaging copious amounts of blood from the abortion she gave herself.

That pretty much goes for everyone in the GOP.

The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion (https://ontd-feminism.livejournal.com/303092.html)

[Rat Diva]

Or the abortion you procured for your side piece in order to keep from paying child support. And to keep your wife by your side even though she hates your adulterous ass so you can maintain your "good Christian family man" image at any cost

[Rat Diva]

Sure, until he finds his own daughter crumpled on the floor while hemorrhaging copious amounts of blood from the abortion she gave herself.

Dinsdale is the one who cancelled a whole family vacation because one of his kids braided the fringe on a blanket. His daughter dying in agony is probably an acceptable tradeoff for moral superiority to him.

[asahi]

Dinsdale
You know, as unfortunate as this recent decision is, women - and America - survived somehow for near a couple hundred years w/ abortion largely illegal.

:linky: (https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/28?u=running_coach)

Let me guess: the poster is male and white. Civil rights is not his problem.

[Sputnik]

Sure, until he finds his own daughter crumpled on the floor while hemorrhaging copious amounts of blood from the abortion she gave herself.


Fresh out of college I took a job with the Welfare department, One of the things I did was interview, and grand aid, for TABS (therapeutic abortions) You would be amazed at how misinformed, confused and scared a 15 year old girl is when she finds out she's pregnant and can't tell her parents. She'll listen to anyone and whatever stupid advice they offer. And no, young lady, having sex standing up against a wall doesn't prevent you from getting pregnant. God save these girls now.

[Rat Diva]

Rebecca Traister: The Necessity Of Hope In Post-Roe America

"This is bad, it’s horrible, and it will get worse," says @rtraister. "It is incumbent on us therefore to use hope not as some feel-good measure. But to regard it as a tactical necessity and a moral and civic responsibility. To feel the hope and keep moving and keep fighting."

'
#KeepHopeAlive

Oh, there's hope. It's going to be a slow, ugly slog, but this thing is not going to shrivel up and blow away the way Horndog Brett and the Scroteboiz are hoping. There are an awful lot of pissed-off women (yo) out there, and we're not helpless. Thanks to the internet we're connected, coordinated, and educated. Some have very deep pockets and an axe to grind.

We can run for office, promote politicians who are on the right side, assemble, protest, talk to people. Support pro-choice organizations. Procure perfectly legal abortefacient medications. Pass around the names of doctors who are looking for a "girl's night in". I'm fully prepared to do any legal or fuzzy thing I can. For my niece and nibling, and my friends' kids, and girls who aren't even born yet who should never have to hear "you can be whatever you want that men say you can be."

[Sputnik]

I love California, the entire West coast for that matter. Women are safe here. Ladies, whatever happens in California, will stay in California. If you ever have a need, we're here to help. Your medical rights, and privacy are your business and yours alone.

In other news,

In the wake of the Supreme Court’s decision today to overturn Roe v. Wade, 83 elected prosecutors from around the nation committed to use their well-established discretion and refuse to prosecute those who seek, assist in or provide abortions, calling the criminalization of abortion care “a mockery of justice.”

These elected prosecutors – collectively representing nearly 87 million people from 28 states and territories and the District of Columbia, including nearly 27 million from 11 states where abortion is now banned or likely to be banned – argue in a joint statement that using limited criminal justice resources to prosecute personal healthcare decisions runs counter to their obligation to pursue justice and promote public safety.

https://da.lacounty.gov/media/news/roe-overturned-83-elected-prosecutors-commit-not-prosecute-abortions

The revolt begins.

[Rat Diva]

In spite of my earlier, uncaffienated lament, I'm ready to stay and be revolting right here.

[What Exit?]

In spite of my earlier, uncaffienated lament, I'm ready to stay and be revolting right here.

Well Pennsy could swing back Blue pretty easily. It is one Stacey Abrams away from being a blue state.

[Dragonlady]

I wonder how long it will be before some radical figures out that if you just knock off a few justices, you can get them replaced by people with different ideas.

[What Exit?]

I wonder how long it will be before some radical figures out that if you just knock off a few justices, you can get them replaced by people with different ideas.

Which is also really bad for Democracy. That happens in South America all too often.

[Sputnik]

Someone was already attested for threatening the Beer Bro. I hope people have enough sense to channel their frustrations into a war with ballots, not bullets.

[Guinastasia]

As a Pennsylvanian, I'm white-knuckling until November. For governor, we have Josh Shapiro, who has been the state's Attorney General who is firmly on the side of the angels, having helped block previous attempts at limiting access to birth control, Trump's travel Muslim ban, and repeated attempts to steal the 2020 election. He's quiet, competent, and low-key and I'm worried that in these days of howling assholes he's fucked.

Howling assholes like the Republiscum candidate for governor, Doug Trumpfelching Mastriano, who is on record as saying that My Body, My Choice is "complete nonsense" and wants to ban all abortions, with no exceptions for rape and incest. He also wants to force everyone in the state to re-register to vote, even though that's illegal under Federal law.

For senator, we have John Fetterman, a big, loud, tough Rust Belt liberal progressive and he's awesome. He's also against Dr. Mehmet Fucking Oz, may god have mercy on our souls.

If either Shapiro or Fetterman lose in November, I swore I'd never leave my house and my job and my hometown, I'm going to seriously contemplate getting the fuck out of the Commonwealth of Gilead.

Mastriano doesn't even want exceptions if a woman's LIFE is at stake, from what I've heard. I'm scared as all get out.

[thylacine]

I’m so sorry this has happened there. May it be undone soon. Pressure is being put on our leaders to protest loudly and consider sanctions if it is any comfort at all.

[Pixel]

Someone was already attested for threatening the Beer Bro. I hope people have enough sense to channel their frustrations into a war with ballots, not bullets.

To be fair, that guy was just having mental health issues. Kinda like the guys who shot Gabby Giffords and Ron Reagan. Target chosen for reasons that only made sense to them, rather than politically chosen.

[Katriona]

Nancy Pelosi is right, though: the Republicans want a federal ban on abortion, too. They are not satisfied with merely overturning Roe v Wade.
.

Then maybe Nancy should take a seat and stop shilling for anti-choice candidates.

[asahi]

Nancy Pelosi is right, though: the Republicans want a federal ban on abortion, too. They are not satisfied with merely overturning Roe v Wade.
.

Then maybe Nancy should take a seat and stop shilling for anti-choice candidates.

That's news to me - I'm gonna need a cite for that.

[asahi]

As a Pennsylvanian, I'm white-knuckling until November. For governor, we have Josh Shapiro, who has been the state's Attorney General who is firmly on the side of the angels, having helped block previous attempts at limiting access to birth control, Trump's travel Muslim ban, and repeated attempts to steal the 2020 election. He's quiet, competent, and low-key and I'm worried that in these days of howling assholes he's fucked.

Howling assholes like the Republiscum candidate for governor, Doug Trumpfelching Mastriano, who is on record as saying that My Body, My Choice is "complete nonsense" and wants to ban all abortions, with no exceptions for rape and incest. He also wants to force everyone in the state to re-register to vote, even though that's illegal under Federal law.

For senator, we have John Fetterman, a big, loud, tough Rust Belt liberal progressive and he's awesome. He's also against Dr. Mehmet Fucking Oz, may god have mercy on our souls.

If either Shapiro or Fetterman lose in November, I swore I'd never leave my house and my job and my hometown, I'm going to seriously contemplate getting the fuck out of the Commonwealth of Gilead.

Mastriano doesn't even want exceptions if a woman's LIFE is at stake, from what I've heard. I'm scared as all get out.

The thing is, even in states that technically allow exceptions for medical emergencies, any physician performing an abortion would do so with a decades-long prison sentence hanging over their head. All of these abortion bans are effectively total bans. Women will die.

[eleanorigby]

I started to read this thread, thinking it might be helpful. It's not. It's various people raging and spattering all manner of invective all over the place. Women are truly hurting. I doubt men can fully understand. That's not sexist; it's truth.

What has ever happened to you men here that has caused you to overnight become second class citizens? I don't need to hear about woulda coulda shoulda. Hindsight is always 20/20. We don't have the luxury of that anger now.

I sincerely hope that every last poster in this thread has called their elected officials, even if those officials are nutcase red assholes, to give civil feedback. I also hope all of you are VOTING in your primaries, down to dog catcher, every year, every election, every time. That's HOW the GOP theocratic thugs got to this point. They didn't waver for 40 years.

I can't read this. It's all so toxic. Work to help women and girls NOW; we have no time to waste.

[Katriona]

Then maybe Nancy should take a seat and stop shilling for anti-choice candidates.

That's news to me - I'm gonna need a cite for that.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/05/in-case-youre-wondering-nancy-pelosi-is-still-supporting-the-only-antiabortion-house-democrat

[asahi]

That's news to me - I'm gonna need a cite for that.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/05/in-case-youre-wondering-nancy-pelosi-is-still-supporting-the-only-antiabortion-house-democrat

Cool article, bro.

Now ask yourself: what's the alternative? A liberal democrat in a conservative district who would almost certainly lose that seat?

Here's the solution. It's an easy one. Yet it's surprisingly difficult. But the solution is: vote D. If you see a D, vote for it. If you see an R vote against it.

I can't tell you how many mother fucking morons - supposedly smart, informed voters - vote "independent" or "centrist republican" because "I cain't vote for the crazy libs"

The libs aren't the ones who tried to stop the peaceful transfer of power. The libs aren't the ones who loaded the courts with Salem Witch Trial prosecutors. If you want your country back, you vote against an R - period. No questions asked. Just do it.

Or, watch your country succumb to right wing fascism.

It's that simple. No other thinking or analysis required. Do you understand?

[asahi]

I started to read this thread, thinking it might be helpful. It's not. It's various people raging and spattering all manner of invective all over the place. Women are truly hurting. I doubt men can fully understand. That's not sexist; it's truth.

What has ever happened to you men here that has caused you to overnight become second class citizens? I don't need to hear about woulda coulda shoulda. Hindsight is always 20/20. We don't have the luxury of that anger now.

I sincerely hope that every last poster in this thread has called their elected officials, even if those officials are nutcase red assholes, to give civil feedback. I also hope all of you are VOTING in your primaries, down to dog catcher, every year, every election, every time. That's HOW the GOP theocratic thugs got to this point. They didn't waver for 40 years.

I can't read this. It's all so toxic. Work to help women and girls NOW; we have no time to waste.

Don't get sad.

Get mad.:raeg::raeg::raeg::raeg::raeg::raeg::raeg:

It's that simple. You need to be pissed off. If you're pissed off at me for posting, fine, I welcome it. All good. Rage on.

Get mad. Stay mad.

We need rage. This country was founded on it. Shaped by it. Will survive because of it, or die because of apathy.

[SmartAleq]

Do you ever consider maybe just shutting up when the women are talking? Ever?

[asahi]

Do you ever consider maybe just shutting up when the women are talking? Ever?

Not when they're wrong - no, I don't.

Like your rage about Obama. Sorry, but you're clearly not informed. You're pissed - I get it, but you're wrong.

To be completely, brutally honest, people like you, who really believe that there's no difference between the two parties, or who believe that the libs are so bad that they can never vote D but can only be an independent...*are* the fucking problem. I'm sorry, but you are. You're woman, I hear you roar, but you're uninformed, and you've fucked over your fellow women because of it.

Cold. hard. truth.

But I realized a long time ago on the derp and hard, nobody ain't interested in that.

[SmartAleq]

Oh fuck off you supercilious toady bootlicker. Fuck off right up your own asshole, sideways.

[asahi]

Oh fuck off you supercilious toady bootlicker. Fuck off right up your own asshole, sideways.

No, you fuck off. Based on your posts, I am confident that I have done more to defend Roe v Wade than you have. Sex ain't got nothin to do with it.

But I don't expect people to understand that - I was told time and time and time again that I was crazy for predicting a Trump coup or that we were heading toward authoritarianism in this country. I guess people have something invested in proving me crazy or wrong - whatever.

My life experiences lead me to my takes and they're usually right. I don't come from a safe space lol.

[asahi]

https://www.foxnews.com/world/u-s-allies-condemn-abortion-court-ruling-blinken-and-us-un-ambassador-join-critical-chorus

"The news coming out of the United States is horrific," Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau declared. "My heart goes out to the millions of American women who are now set to lose their legal right to an abortion. I can’t imagine the fear and anger you are feeling right now.

French President Emmanuel Macron tweeted on Friday: "Abortion is a fundamental right for all women. We must protect it. I would like to express my solidarity with all those women whose freedoms have today been compromised by the U.S. Supreme Court."

In Germany, Chancellor Olaf Scholz wrote on Twitter: "Women’s rights are threatened. We must consistently defend them."

Yeah, looks like the US is going to have a hard time selling countries like Ukraine and Russia that we're defending freedom and stuff, lol. Of course people these countries understand what freedom truly is, and value it more, which is why they defend it more.

[Detroit Hoser]

In other news today I'll either swelter or get rained on in my small podunk county seat corner of Cornfield Hell as probably a small handful of us gather on the Courthouse steps for a peaceful protest. I'm sure the press will be there and we'll get a small pic in Sunday's paper, right next to the all-state football champ from 2003 who is opening a new Jiffy Lube on the bypass.

But every little bit counts. Anyone available to bail me out later?

[Pencil]

Of course people these countries understand what freedom truly is, and value it more, which is why they defend it more.

You really don't know anything about politics in Europe, do you?

Marine Le Pen and her fascists just won a large chunk of seats in the French parliament. Loons are cos-playing government in the UK. Right wing xenophobic, transphobic, homophobic, misogynist ratf*ckers sit in just about every parliament in the EU and in some of them they're in power. Where they're not in power, they're pushing the 'normal' parties further to the right. They get this close >< to adopting the same policies, out of fear of losing votes to the ratf*ckers. Appeasement and triangulation is the norm since about 20 years.

Don't think for a second that if the systems where similar to the U.S. around here, they wouldn't do the same.

[Sputnik]

Yeah Weedy, we’re gonna bail you out and get you stoned on the way home.

PP of Utah is suing using the Utah state constitution to stop potential prosecution under the SCOTUS fukup. It’s a start.

[Rat Diva]

I can't read this. It's all so toxic. Work to help women and girls NOW; we have no time to waste.

If you mean asahi, he's a useless, butthurt loudmouth who likes to proclaim doom and cackle about how he was right after the fact, especially when he isn't. The other men in this thread are on our side so do't lump them in with him.

I have already stated I'm willing to do any legal or quietly illegal thing to do my part, which I also have done for Black Lives Matter and LGBTQ+ rights. I've donated money to the Fetterman and Shapiro campaigns, Planned Parenthood and the Center for Reproductive Rights, written letters to elected officials, and have voted in every election since I turned 18.

Meanwhile, I'm not going to apologize for using this thread to vent my anger and disappointment instead of unveiling my master plan for saving the world using this one wierd old trick discovered by a Shickshinny housewife, because I ain't got one of them and neither does anyone else, even you. It's going to be a long hard fight and moral support will be desperately needed. Forgive me for being human.

[Rat Diva]

Yeah Weedy, we’re gonna bail you out and get you stoned on the way home.

PP of Utah is suing using the Utah state constitution to stop potential prosecution under the SCOTUS fukup. It’s a start.

Meet ya there. Michigan is the biggest cherry producing state in the US and I can't get enough of those things.

[Rat Diva]

I wonder how long it will be before some radical figures out that if you just knock off a few justices, you can get them replaced by people with different ideas.

Which is also really bad for Democracy. That happens in South America all too often.

And making martyrs out of them would only make things that much worse...

[3acres]

Anyone available to bail me out later?

Can I bail you out with a credit card over the internet?

[SmartAleq]

There's nothing quite so fucking special as some loudmouth mansplaining penis person screeching and flinging shit around dictating how women must feel about things and demanding everyone do as he says. I edited my ignore list and now things are much more bearable.

I'm thinking at some point the Auntie Network might appreciate someone with decades of experience smuggling less than legal items around the country. Miso/Mife exists, no putting that genie back in the bottle and it's way easier transporting pharma than weed by a long shot.

[Pixel]

... I get it, but you're wrong.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/hMqvcoRpfMODS/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47m51i3rq60he1bjckyg3pkkbvfxl7 oiyrhrgxrrcv&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[JackieLikesVariety]

If you mean asahi, he's a useless, butthurt loudmouth who likes to proclaim doom and cackle about how he was right after the fact, especially when he isn't. The other men in this thread are on our side so do't lump them in with him.

I have already stated I'm willing to do any legal or quietly illegal thing to do my part, which I also have done for Black Lives Matter and LGBTQ+ rights. I've donated money to the Fetterman and Shapiro campaigns, Planned Parenthood and the Center for Reproductive Rights, written letters to elected officials, and have voted in every election since I turned 18.

Meanwhile, I'm not going to apologize for using this thread to vent my anger and disappointment instead of unveiling my master plan for saving the world using this one wierd old trick discovered by a Shickshinny housewife, because I ain't got one of them and neither does anyone else, even you. It's going to be a long hard fight and moral support will be desperately needed. Forgive me for being human.

:thumbs: :fist:

:hug:



Which is also really bad for Democracy. That happens in South America all too often.

And making martyrs out of them would only make things that much worse...

+1 or I guess I'm 2

I edited my ignore list and now things are much more bearable.

I'm thinking at some point the Auntie Network might appreciate someone with decades of experience smuggling less than legal items around the country. Miso/Mife exists, no putting that genie back in the bottle and it's way easier transporting pharma than weed by a long shot.

AT LAST because I came here to post why does anyone not have him on ignore? :shrug:

all those anti-healthcare for women peeps celebrating the SCOTUS decision might not realize it is an entirely different world now. in fact, hardly anybody knows about Plan C, and those who have heard of it confuse it with Plan B (the morning after pill)

PLAN C (https://www.plancpills.org/)

spread the word!!!!!!!

and, of course the rat fuckers will be trying to stop access to Plan C and they just flat out will not be able to.

meanwhile, SPREAD THE WORD!

[What Exit?]

Across 3 boards, I only have one poster on ignore. It is this asshole.

His latest shit was too much.

[Sunny Daze]

Thank you all for reminding me that ignore is a thing. There is no point in allowing asswipe to raise my blood pressure for his own amusement.

In other news today I'll either swelter or get rained on in my small podunk county seat corner of Cornfield Hell as probably a small handful of us gather on the Courthouse steps for a peaceful protest. I'm sure the press will be there and we'll get a small pic in Sunday's paper, right next to the all-state football champ from 2003 who is opening a new Jiffy Lube on the bypass.

But every little bit counts. Anyone available to bail me out later?

I will happily bail you and anyone else out.

I've been wondering if something like days of women striking (not at home, not in the workplace, no work of any kind) would be a good tool. Lord knows protests get media play, but I'm not sure that much changes. Let's shut society down, one day at a time.

[Sputnik]

Re the ignore thing. Please don’t quote him. It will appear even though someone has him on their iggy list. Thank you.

I am Sputnik and I approve of this message.

[Guinastasia]

Do you ever consider maybe just shutting up when the women are talking? Ever?

Not when they're wrong - no, I don't.

Like your rage about Obama. Sorry, but you're clearly not informed. You're pissed - I get it, but you're wrong.

To be completely, brutally honest, people like you, who really believe that there's no difference between the two parties, or who believe that the libs are so bad that they can never vote D but can only be an independent...*are* the fucking problem. I'm sorry, but you are. You're woman, I hear you roar, but you're uninformed, and you've fucked over your fellow women because of it.

Cold. hard. truth.

But I realized a long time ago on the derp and hard, nobody ain't interested in that.

And you're never wrong, of course.

Why don't you take your patronizing, man-splaining ass back to the Box where it belongs?

[What Exit?]

Please stop quoting him.

Otherwise, I think we all agree with you.

[asahi]

Not when they're wrong - no, I don't.

Like your rage about Obama. Sorry, but you're clearly not informed. You're pissed - I get it, but you're wrong.

To be completely, brutally honest, people like you, who really believe that there's no difference between the two parties, or who believe that the libs are so bad that they can never vote D but can only be an independent...*are* the fucking problem. I'm sorry, but you are. You're woman, I hear you roar, but you're uninformed, and you've fucked over your fellow women because of it.

Cold. hard. truth.

But I realized a long time ago on the derp and hard, nobody ain't interested in that.

And you're never wrong, of course.

Why don't you take your patronizing, man-splaining ass back to the Box where it belongs?

There was no mansplaining. I was responding to the comment that bizarrely called out Obama when he has probably done more than any president the last 20 years to protect abortion rights. It's not patronizing or mansplaining to point out that there's one party that put the six fuckers on the bench who just took away your freedom.

FFS, people, I think I am on pretty much everyone's side of this argument, but if I see inaccurate posting I'm going to respond to it. Why should I "shut up when the women are talking?" I think you guys here and on SDMB are in a bubble and don't realize how insular you are. I don't have these kinds of dip-fuck conflicts on other message boards.

[eleanorigby]

I started to read this thread, thinking it might be helpful. It's not. It's various people raging and spattering all manner of invective all over the place. Women are truly hurting. I doubt men can fully understand. That's not sexist; it's truth.

What has ever happened to you men here that has caused you to overnight become second class citizens? I don't need to hear about woulda coulda shoulda. Hindsight is always 20/20. We don't have the luxury of that anger now.

I sincerely hope that every last poster in this thread has called their elected officials, even if those officials are nutcase red assholes, to give civil feedback. I also hope all of you are VOTING in your primaries, down to dog catcher, every year, every election, every time. That's HOW the GOP theocratic thugs got to this point. They didn't waver for 40 years.

I can't read this. It's all so toxic. Work to help women and girls NOW; we have no time to waste.

Don't get sad.

Get mad.:raeg::raeg::raeg::raeg::raeg::raeg::raeg:

It's that simple. You need to be pissed off. If you're pissed off at me for posting, fine, I welcome it. All good. Rage on.

Get mad. Stay mad.

We need rage. This country was founded on it. Shaped by it. Will survive because of it, or die because of apathy.


Don't you dare ever tell me or any other woman what to feel, when and how about this subject, or any other. Jesus wept. You're not worth my time or my anger. I have more important things to do.

Men aren't inconvenienced in any way by this. STFU and maybe listen to the women in your life. I'm done here.

[asahi]

Don't get sad.

Get mad.:raeg::raeg::raeg::raeg::raeg::raeg::raeg:

It's that simple. You need to be pissed off. If you're pissed off at me for posting, fine, I welcome it. All good. Rage on.

Get mad. Stay mad.

We need rage. This country was founded on it. Shaped by it. Will survive because of it, or die because of apathy.


Don't you dare ever tell me or any other woman what to feel, when and how about this subject, or any other. Jesus wept. You're not worth my time or my anger. I have more important things to do.

Men aren't inconvenienced in any way by this. STFU and maybe listen to the women in your life. I'm done here.

FFS, I'm on your side.

I never knew my paternal grandmother. She died as a result of a botched abortion. My dad lost his mother when he was a kid.

Be that as it may, I will still respond to posts that are inaccurate. I get I am not popular. Wasn't popular on the dope. Whatever, it won't stop me from posting.

I don't find anything I've posted even remotely offensive. Telling you to get angry? Telling you to get outraged? Seriously? You're mad about that? I could get the umbrage if I were trying to be dismissive, but that's not what I've said at all.

Again, I think Geeb and SDMB are really, really fucking insular and club-like. I think the average pro-choice person wouldn't have been remotely offended by anything I've posted here.

[Sputnik]

Jebus dude, you’re coming across as incredibly dense.

[asahi]

......

[asahi]

....

[Andrew Jackson's Hair]

I'd like to point out that pre-patriarchy it was tribal responsibility for the children. And no complex property to hand down. Pre-patriarchy was largely pre-agriculture.

What we know is that we, as a species, can exist multiple ways, can configure ourselves multiple ways. We adjust. It's not all hard-wiring. Ther are some hard-wired things but they can be rendered in a lot of different ways.

Patriarchy is one way. Feminism and associated social movements for equality gave us a different world. Some folks don't like it at all and they're doing their last-stand best to return us to the previous world. The long-term odds are against them but they're scaring the shit out of me to be honest about it.

You're missing an important point. Understandable, since study of "the patriarchy" is almost entirely limited to feminist writing and teaching with its obvious bias. The part you are missing is that non-patriarchal systems do not survive agrarianism.

Let's start this easy. If it involves penises and vaginas, it's a "core" feature of evolutionary biology. You should only use the vague social conjecture if you can't solve the mystery empirically using the tools of biology. The "how" of patriarchy isn't as interesting as the "why", and the why is simple. Agrarianism was the first time in the pre-history of any given tribal group where that group had enough reliable extra calories to specialize women in child-birthing. Why is that important? Because they had neighbors. And if they didn't make the babies, they'd be exterminated or assimilated a generation or two later by the neighbors that did have the extra babies. Fast forward a few thousand years of competition, and evolution does its thing. Zero non-patriarchal societies of any complexity survive to the era of written history. None. All gone. Hothouse flowers. Orchids falling before a wave of kudzu. Population was power. Wombs were the key to survival, advancement and expansion. Those that tried something else did not survive.

Modern liberal society is a hothouse flower. It exists of course, we live in it. It is beautiful and it is dying with a negative birth rate, and has been for some time now. If that continues, our society will be extinct, opening the larger philosophical question of whether half our population should be allowed to doom us all because they feel like it. Women were given the keys to the West's genetic future about a half century ago, and they have been appallingly bad stewards of it. Absolute fucking shit at it. Intelligent people do not actually give a shit about the rights of ship's captain who has steered the collective ship towards an iceberg all while screaming "my body my choice!". Likewise, intelligent people probably don't care if some slut wants to vacuum out a 3-month old unwanted creampie as long as there is a replacement population on the way. But we don't have a replacement population on the way.

An oppressive system does not always mean a system of oppression. Oppression was not the point. Patriarchy cannot be properly understood as anything other than a breeding strategy. One so successful in fact that it overwhelmed any other strategy which faced off against it. You do not have "another way", the other way we have been trying for the past ~50 years is slowly ending our civilization. Maybe if "reproductive rights" came attached to "reproductive responsibilities" I'd be a little more sympathetic. But the hothouse flower doesn't like the term "responsibility", does it? Probably been designated a racist term by now.

Longterm, I do expect States of the Union that boost reproduction by whatever means to be substantially outperforming those that don't in the coming century, and I have the entire weight of human history as my fucking cite.

:chihuahua:

[Sunny Daze]

You seem to be under the impression that other forms of abortion or infanticide were not and are not practiced.

[Sunny Daze]

You seem to be under the impression that other forms of abortion or infanticide were not and are not practiced.

I do expect States of the Union that boost reproduction by whatever means

Fuck you up the ass sideways, you Gilead wanna-be.

[AHunter3]

What we know is that we, as a species, can exist multiple ways, can configure ourselves multiple ways. We adjust. It's not all hard-wiring. Ther are some hard-wired things but they can be rendered in a lot of different ways.

Patriarchy is one way. Feminism and associated social movements for equality gave us a different world. Some folks don't like it at all and they're doing their last-stand best to return us to the previous world. The long-term odds are against them but they're scaring the shit out of me to be honest about it.

You're missing an important point. ...

The "how" of patriarchy isn't as interesting as the "why", and the why is simple. Agrarianism was the first time in the pre-history of any given tribal group where that group had enough reliable extra calories to specialize women in child-birthing. Why is that important? Because they had neighbors. And if they didn't make the babies, they'd be exterminated or assimilated a generation or two later by the neighbors that did have the extra babies.


Yep, patriarchy had desirable adaptive features, which is why we as a species went with it.

It's not, however, proving a good modality for the post-agrarian world we've been living more and more since the end of the 19th century.

[Andrew Jackson's Hair]

It's not, however, proving a good modality for the post-agrarian world we've been living more and more since the end of the 19th century.
I myself can imagine at least a dozen better hypothetical ones. But none of the idiots howling in the streets (or here) are proposing anything useful, and what we have been doing is clearly self-inflicted slow genocide. Extinction as threat always supersedes every other concern.

[SmartAleq]

Well then, if you're so worried about extinction (with over 8 billion of us, lol) y'all better get crackin' on how to implant fetuses into men's peritoneums because we aren't going to be your handmaids any more. Fuck you, fuck anyone who tries to bring "evolution" into the argument without explaining how counter evolutionary it is that the #1 cause of maternal mortality is murder...by men. Get your own fucking house in order and stop expecting women to fix your shit.

[asahi]

Likewise, intelligent people probably don't care if some slut wants to vacuum out a 3-month old unwanted creampie as long as there is a replacement population on the way. But we don't have a replacement population on the way.

And I'm the asshole?

Whatever, Geeb. You do you, lol

[Sunny Daze]

Yes, nothing warms the heart so much as men telling women they need to get with the program and have all the children.

I wonder... which states have the strongest economies? Which states have the strongest protections for reproductive rights? Do those states have trouble with population? In fact, does most of the country live in those states?

[Jaglavak]

Don't waste your time, Smartie. We've been watching this capering ass monkey troll people for how long, now? You know he'll just keep working on any sore spot he can dig up and crapping up the conversation until you've had enough.

[asahi]

Longterm, I do expect States of the Union that boost reproduction by whatever means to be substantially outperforming those that don't in the coming century,

Uh, okay. I'm sure that Niger, Chad, and Mali are outperforming everyone else.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/total-fertility-rate

and I have the entire weight of human history as my fucking cite.

And what percentage of our evolutionary history has the human population exceeded a billion, let alone 8 billion? We live in a radically different world than the one we emerged from 10,000 or so years ago.

[JackieLikesVariety]

and I big Thank You to all of you not quoting him. I appreciate that.

[Sunny Daze]

This is fun! I can only tell that he's posting by scrutinizing the post counts. You lovely, lovely people. :hug:

[SmartAleq]

Sometimes it just feels real good to give a 135 degree roundhouse slap to some smug fat faced dickwad, Jag, I never try to fool myself it'll do a bit of good. Just enjoy the rebound right up to my shoulder, now that my shoulders more or less work.

And holy hell, are we finally managing a functioning DNFTT? Go us! :gun:

[Sputnik]

And holy hell, are we finally managing a functioning DNFTT? Go us! :gun:
Actually, same thing happened to carnal. He got ignored and finally slithered away. DNFTT does work.

[Swammerdami]

The four most liberal Supreme Court Justices often cancel out the votes of the four most conservative Justices, and the center-most Justice — the "median" or "swing-vote" Justice — decides many important issues. It may be interesting to trace the history of the median Justice.

Nixon appointed four conservative Justices; this made Byron "Whizzer" White, a JFK appointee, the median Justice. For many years, White, Arthur Kennedy and Sandra Day O'Connor formed a centrist core of the Court.

During America's Rational Era hyper-partisanship wasn't as lop-sided as we see today. Nixon's conservative appointees voted for Roe in the 1973 case Roe v Wade but White voted against her. (White also voted against Miranda in 1966; Miranda would have lost had this case been decided a few years later.)

Bush-41 replaced Thurgood with Clarence and two years later Clinton replaced White with Ginsburg. The net effect was to replace a centrist with a right-winger, but the median Justice (O'Connor or Kennedy) was still centrist. Bush-43 replaced O'Connor with Alito; the court was now split 4-1-4 with Arthur Kennedy the only remaining centrist. Arthur Kennedy was the deciding vote in many close decisions, sometimes siding with the liberals, sometimes the conservatives. He often wrote majority opinions for the Court.

Kennedy's retirement at age 82 and replacement with Brett Scumbag was a tragedy, since there were now 5 right-wingers. The median Justice was Chief John Roberts, who started his career as a political hack, working for Reagan and coming up with ploys to suppress black votes.

Finally the death of Ruth Ginsburg sealed the fate of American democracy. With five bat-shit crazies on the Court, Republican hack Roberts often finds himself voting with the sane minority! It may no longer make sense to speak of a median Justice; but it might be Kavanaugh himself if one insists.

[Andrew Jackson's Hair]

Uh, okay. I'm sure that Niger, Chad, and Mali are outperforming everyone else.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/total-fertility-rate
Oh, were you tracking standard of living or some other fatuous metric? Standard of living really is my favorite, as if nature red in tooth & claw cares if we are happy. A mother spider being eaten alive by her own offspring probably is not happy, but it is an exchange whereby she trades her biomass to give her offspring a slightly better chance at survival, and therefore her genes move into the future. Her suffering is not measured in the exchange, it is irrelevant. The cat ladies reading this cannot really understand this, because they live in the sheltered greenhouse and their definition of hardship involves having to switch to a cheaper detergent or hearing a different opinion on the internet. But I wonder, does a couple born in Bangladesh now spending their lives in an American convenience store, being the victims of armed robbery on a weekly basis so that their offspring can go to medical school understand it? I suspect that they understand just fine. They suffer, but their children will reap the benefit. Only a fool thinks this is not a competition. The Bangladeshi couple think it every time someone buys some overpriced bit of junk food. They think they're winning, and they're right.

So no, we were discussing biology. Sub-Saharan African (incl. Chad, Mali, etc.) migration has never been particularly prevalent until the last half century. Over 4 million of them live in North America now, with the numbers being considerably larger in Europe. Can you find 4 million Westerners living and having productive families in Sub-Saharan Africa? I bet you can't.

If I had a table covered in petri dishes each with a different specimen, and returned one morning to find that one such dish had become a festering mess but had spread and propagated in multiple neighboring dishes, I would call that a very successful organism. They are doing quite well. Not as well as my all-time favorite specimen, the Irish. But well nonetheless considering the late start. The kudzu overwhelms the orchid. Pay attention.


And what percentage of our evolutionary history has the human population exceeded a billion, let alone 8 billion? We live in a radically different world than the one we emerged from 10,000 or so years ago.

But we are not a radically different organism than we were 10,000 years ago. Human reproduction has not changed, ergo the strategies that previously governed are assumed to operate unless you demonstrate otherwise. Arguing that a different quantification necessarily results in a different qualification is a non-starter, it's like saying we've never baked a million bread loaves in a day so we aren't sure if the recipe still works or if we should still use bread pans. Nonsense. The base drives of the organism remain unchanged, it wants to propagate and eat things. Well, it would if it were healthy, anyway. Fat fucks like SmartAlex or whatever, they mostly just want to eat and get abortions and scream on the internet. Disgusting creatures really. Don't worry Smartie, no one wants to reproduce with you except Jag, and most people with Downs are sterile so there's no danger to your cobwebbed womb if that unfortunate situation should ever arise.

[JackieLikesVariety]

DNFTT does work.

I hope we can keep it up. :)

[Sputnik]

I see now much more clearly why women throw up their hands in frustration and leave threads. Take your biology shtick to your own thread. Reported Jackson’s hair for threadshitting.

[hajario]

I see now much more clearly why women throw up their hands in frustration and leave threads. Take your biology shtick to your own thread. Reported Jackson’s hair for threadshitting.

Discussion here: https://www.giraffeboards.com/showthread.php?t=58449

[Sputnik]

Thank you Haj.

[Rat Diva]

If the trolls could get shitcanned and this thread could be for the exchange of info, frothing rage, and ideas again, I'd be a very happy rodent.

[Solfy]

The internet and the media is full of info and frothing rage of all varieties this week. None of the info is new and all of the rage is impotent.

[Rat Diva]

:shrug: my pilot light burns hotter than yours.

[mjmlabs]

Planned Parenthood's Alexis McGill Johnson Responds to the Overturning of Roe v. Wade
from your friend and mine, Seth Meyers

6aVXRGsZfBQ

[SmartAleq]

Nice idea courtesy of r/WitchesVsPatriarchy (https://old.reddit.com/r/WitchesVsPatriarchy/comments/vmrfy7/post_1_star_google_reviews_on_crisis_pregnancy/) to leave two star Google reviews on listings for "crisis pregnancy centers" that pretend to offer medical services but don't and are basically information farms for the forced birth movement.

BTW, WvsP is a great community and very helpful and a balm to the feelings no matter how fucked up things get. It is a HEAVILY modded community that will give the relentless axe to clueless trolls and notallmen and the rest of the shitbird crew. I find myself spending more and more time there these days. Excellent memes and bitchin' shopping opportunities as well.

[hajario]

Nice idea courtesy of r/WitchesVsPatriarchy (https://old.reddit.com/r/WitchesVsPatriarchy/comments/vmrfy7/post_1_star_google_reviews_on_crisis_pregnancy/) to leave two star Google reviews on listings for "crisis pregnancy centers" that pretend to offer medical services but don't and are basically information farms for the forced birth movement.

The reason for a two star review is that Google will often remove one star reviews at the business owner's request.

[SmartAleq]

There's a lot of info and suggestions in that thread, I def suggest reading through comments. I like the way the community buttresses and helps each other build on their ideas, it's the crowdsourced brain in action.

[asahi]

But we are not a radically different organism than we were 10,000 years ago.

No, but we're certainly having a much greater ecological impact than we were then, and we're on our way to a civilization crash. We really don't need more babies right now, though that's not an argument for or against abortion. We're protozoa bumping up against the edge of the petri dish.

Don't worry Smartie, no one wants to reproduce with you except Jag, and most people with Downs are sterile so there's no danger to your cobwebbed womb if that unfortunate situation should ever arise.

Right, some philosopher you are.

[Katriona]

Do you ever consider maybe just shutting up when the women are talking? Ever?

Seriously.

[asahi]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/28/kamala-harris-abortion-supreme-court-roe-wade/

Harris also addressed Justice Clarence Thomas’s concurring opinion, in which he called on the Supreme Court to reexamine cases on LGBTQ rights and contraception. “I definitely believe this is not over. I do. I think he just said the quiet part out loud,” Harris said of Thomas.

He sure as shit did. It's bad enough that the Court just blatantly trashed 50 years of precedent -- something that Dobbs/Mississippi didn't actually ask the Court to do.

Thomas said, "Hold my beer" as he and his ideologues in robes prepare to destroy privacy entirely, on everything from birth control to gay marriage.

[eleanorigby]

asahi: I'm not interested in your credentials as some sort of ally here. You need to give space and respect to the women of this board by listening and learning. I will not apologize for being harsh with you; what you don't seem to grok is that this primal for women. You'll never be a 2nd class citizen in your country. There is no equivalent. I was 11 when Roe became law. I will be 60 next month. I've been "lucky" that it covered my reproductive life. I SHOULD NOT BE "LUCKY"; THIS IS A HUMAN RIGHT. Why do women always have to beg and fight for the most basic of any of the human rights?

But you are not the problem. I just took a gander at Andrew Jackson's Hair's posts. Holy hell, they're vile. Guess we're all helpless, hapless victims of our biology. Disregard our cerebral cortex, folks, we are only as evolved as our urges. Or something. Jesus wept. There's so much pig ignorance in this thread it should have the subtitle "Sty". And I am not here to correct or educate. You guys are so smart; you figure it out. Hint: most everything you think you know about women is WRONG. Start there.

I refuse to blame Obama, Ginsberg, or any Dem for this. This is the result of a determined, steady, focused attack on women and women's rights for the past 40 years. Time was evangelicals were pro-abortion (as recent as 1968). Time was Reagan was as well. Time was many GOP were, too.

Also, as much as I resent that people are creating gruesome scenarios to justify abortion (as if women cannot choose but must have had a tragedy happen or victim of a crime), and as much as I resent others from not accepting or acknowledging that the LOSS OF BODILY AUTONOMY IS SUFFICIENT IN AND OF ITSELF, we all know the GOP Cabal will not stop here.

So, I have a question. Do we vassals/vessels get to choose the color of our bonnets and robes or will that be determined by our position on the fertility spectrum? I need to color coordinate because that's a focus for my pretty little head.

[asahi]

asahi: I'm not interested in your credentials as some sort of ally here. You need to give space and respect to the women of this board by listening and learning. I will not apologize for being harsh with you; what you don't seem to grok is that this primal for women. You'll never be a 2nd class citizen in your country. There is no equivalent. I was 11 when Roe became law. I will be 60 next month. I've been "lucky" that it covered my reproductive life. I SHOULD NOT BE "LUCKY"; THIS IS A HUMAN RIGHT. Why do women always have to beg and fight for the most basic of any of the human rights?

I've seen my grandmother's death certificate on microfiche: perforated uterus. She was 28. She died on a hot summer day in June just days after her birthday. Antibiotics weren't quite a thing yet but sterilization and understanding of microbes was. She could have had a safe(er) abortion then.

I'm male, but I don't need to explain my street cred to you. I think you need to stop making fucking assumptions about people and welcome allies with a handshake, if not open arms. If you want to keep pushing me away, do it. It won't help your cause though.

Seriously, can anyone else here say they lost someone as a result of anti-abortion laws? I totally can.

ETA: This is not the way I wanted to end this post. To the ladies on this forum, yes, I feel you. I apologize for not being self-aware enough to express this earlier.

[Andrew Jackson's Hair]

But you are not the problem. I just took a gander at Andrew Jackson's Hair's posts. Holy hell, they're vile. Guess we're all helpless, hapless victims of our biology.
No. You did not understand. My point was not that you are a victim of your biology. Rather, you are about to be a victim of other peoples' biology. Do you understand now, with fewer words?

Today our primary competitors are microorganisms, and each other. It was extraordinarily foolish and self-indulgent to allow our birth rate to drop below replacement level for three consecutive generations.

[thorny locust]

Time was evangelicals were pro-abortion (as recent as 1968).

Thanks for bringing this up. The anti-choice position is not buried deep in a consistent two thousand years of Christian history; that claim is a lie (though a lot of the people repeating it don't know it's a lie.) This is not about religion, except that religion is being used as a prybar. This is about political power.

[Baker]

The only time I ever voted third party in a presidential election was in 1992. I was watching the vice-presidential debate, between Al Gore, Dan Quayle, and (Ret Adm) James Stockdale. When questions were addressed to the candidates the order in which they answered was rotated. When the question was asked about reproductive rights, Stockdale was third to respond, after weasel worded and long responses from the other two. He looked at the moderator and said "I believe that what a woman does with her body is her own business, period." The moderator looked surprised at the brevity of the answer, and kind of lifted his shoulders as if to ask "that's it?" and Stockdale responded "Period" Damn, whether you agreed with him or not you knew where he stood and I voted for him and Perot. Of course that ticket lost, but I'd love to learn about the alternate reality timeline in which they had won.

[asahi]

asahi: I'm not interested in your credentials as some sort of ally here. You need to give space and respect to the women of this board by listening and learning. I will not apologize for being harsh with you; what you don't seem to grok is that this primal for women. You'll never be a 2nd class citizen in your country. There is no equivalent. I was 11 when Roe became law. I will be 60 next month. I've been "lucky" that it covered my reproductive life. I SHOULD NOT BE "LUCKY"; THIS IS A HUMAN RIGHT. Why do women always have to beg and fight for the most basic of any of the human rights?

But you are not the problem. I just took a gander at Andrew Jackson's Hair's posts. Holy hell, they're vile. Guess we're all helpless, hapless victims of our biology. Disregard our cerebral cortex, folks, we are only as evolved as our urges. Or something. Jesus wept. There's so much pig ignorance in this thread it should have the subtitle "Sty". And I am not here to correct or educate. You guys are so smart; you figure it out. Hint: most everything you think you know about women is WRONG. Start there.

I refuse to blame Obama, Ginsberg, or any Dem for this. This is the result of a determined, steady, focused attack on women and women's rights for the past 40 years. Time was evangelicals were pro-abortion (as recent as 1968). Time was Reagan was as well. Time was many GOP were, too.

Also, as much as I resent that people are creating gruesome scenarios to justify abortion (as if women cannot choose but must have had a tragedy happen or victim of a crime), and as much as I resent others from not accepting or acknowledging that the LOSS OF BODILY AUTONOMY IS SUFFICIENT IN AND OF ITSELF, we all know the GOP Cabal will not stop here.

So, I have a question. Do we vassals/vessels get to choose the color of our bonnets and robes or will that be determined by our position on the fertility spectrum? I need to color coordinate because that's a focus for my pretty little head.

Wanted to +1 this post.

Sorry, I was wound up and in a foul mood last night and didn't read this really thoughtful post as closely as I should have. Didn't give it the justice it deserved.

I agree, these effers are not done yet. They're just getting started. As I see it, the anti-abortion movement are part of a traditionalist movement, which is inclusive to different authoritarian constituencies. Some racist. Some misogynistic. Many homophobic and transphobic.

We have a constitutional crisis right now. Ironically, until recently, I had always assumed that any constitutional crisis this country would have would be at the hands of a corrupt president or a rogue faction of the military. I hadn't really considered real the possibility that the worst constitutional crisis we've seen in over a century would possibly start inside the judiciary, but here we are. A judiciary that ignores precedent - because it can. In tandem with various state legislatures, we've got severe strain on our political system at present.

[Pixel]

Sorry, I was wound up and in a foul mood last night and didn't read this really thoughtful post as closely as I should have. Didn't give it the justice it deserved.

Too many Asahi beers, eh?

[asahi]

Sorry, I was wound up and in a foul mood last night and didn't read this really thoughtful post as closely as I should have. Didn't give it the justice it deserved.

Too many Asahi beers, eh?

I'm money bags now. I can afford more than Asahi beer. I can actually afford Kirin or Yebisu.

[hajario]

Going forward people need to be civil in this thread. This includes responding in kind. If you see a problem, report it. If someone persists, there will be thread bans or Boxings. In addition, any further discussion of AJH's anthropological theories can be discussed in a different thread if anyone is still so inclined but it is not to be discussed in this one.

[SmartAleq]

That oughta work, thanks haj.

I've been following some interesting threads on r/TwoXChromosomes and r/WitchesvsPatriarchy about the insanely bizarre cognitive dissonance between all the crowing men declaring that if we ladies would "just keep our legs closed" we wouldn't have to worry about abortion rights then right along with those are the threads bemoaning that "my GF won't have sex with me any more" because she's A) not feeling very sexxay having been declared an unperson and B) unwilling to risk PIV due to the danger factor. I mean, if the incels are mad at us NOW because we won't fuck them what did they think was gonna happen with the RvW decision?

I'm also waiting for Nancy to stop ripping up papers and kneeling in kente cloth and reading poems on the House floor and get cracking on starting impeachment proceedings against Thomas, Barrett, Kavanaugh and Gorsuch. The latter three for perjury and contempt of Congress for lying under oath that they would protect Roe as settled law and Thomas for multiple flagrant abuses of power including allowing his wife to use his SCOTUS email account to pursue fundraising for GOP causes, not declaring gifts and contributions received and for refusing to recuse himself from cases his wife is involved with. Oh, and multiple cases of sexual harassment but we know nobody gives a shit about THAT. If the fucking weenie ass Dems don't get off their asses, whip Manchin into line and DO SOMETHING, well, Gilead awaits.

[Sputnik]

A Florida judge on Thursday ruled that Florida's new law that bans abortions at 15 weeks is unconstitutional and "violates the privacy provision of the Florida Constitution."

In a verbal ruling, Second Judicial Circuit Court Judge John Cooper said he would be issuing a temporary statewide injunction that will go into effect once he signs the written order in the challenge brought by some Florida abortion providers. He said he will not be signing the order on Thursday.
The law was originally scheduled to go into effect on July 1 after it was signed into law by Florida Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis back in April.

From CNN

Maybe the states will come through after all.

[Pixel]

... I mean, if the incels are mad at us NOW because we won't fuck them what did they think was gonna happen with the RvW decision?

Actually, from my reading their writings and watching their videos, incels seem to be highly supportive of abortion rights because if they ever manage to get laid get a woman pregnant, they don't want to have to support the brat they produced, so they want an easy way to flush the bastard. Of course, it would be a mistake to call them 'pro-choice', because guess who they think should be the one making the 'choice'. (hint: it ain't the woman)

[eleanorigby]

Thank you, Haj.

What I'm seeing in real life and here (here meaning internet) is male sympathizers, but not allies. Hell, I'm not even sure what an ally would actually look like. I'm also not rending my garments or unable to sleep etc. I am implacably angry, but it's focused on the GOP and the "Christians" who have lusted after this for decades. Seriously, these are evil people.

I didn't say I was a victim of my biology; I said we were all victims of our biology. If men "just can't help themselves" and prey on women, we are all victims. And then there's the whole men can't get pregnant thing; more biology... Except we none of us are victims of our biology in these matters. Choices to control women have been made by men; not biology: misogyny.

Anyway, venting here doesn't do much except irritate others. Asahi's post caught me on the raw and felt very dismissive, but he's hardly the problem. Most folks don't mean any harm (trolls excepted; they enjoy it).

I do think we all need to call/write our elected politicians (federal) and tell them impeachment proceedings need to be initiated against these zealots on SCOTUS. America is in a crucible right now, and there is no guarantee it will come out okay. What a world.

[Sunny Daze]

Let's apply pressure to override the filibuster to pass abortion rights legislation.

If we can pass legislation to pack the court, I'm on board with that big time.

[asahi]

Contacting congressmen/women is good, but I think the fear has to be primal now. They need to see real street protests, like Vietnam War era protests. On a regular basis.

There is value in making people in power believe that they can be removed using extra-democratic processes - if they continue to deliberately ignore popular will.

[JimNightshade]

5TOsitZiMO8

[BrickaBracka]

Man, I don't know what surprises me more. The overconfident ignorance, or the inherent cruelty in the views of some people...

I only have one basic guiding principle for abortion - unborn babies ARE NOT more important than living women - and the only man who gets to even participate in the discussion regarding any fetus is the father. And that's only to ASK the woman what her plans are, maybe request one way or another, but ultimately, that's all it should ever be. A request. "Would you please carry/abort this baby" should be just as up in the air as "Would you please suck my dick" - neither one can be forced and it's up to the whim of the woman. Anyone forcing either issue is just as reprehensible as the other. If you don't like her response you go find another woman who shares your views. None of those women around? Maybe your views suck.

Fetuses don't fucking matter as anything other than POTENTIAL humans. They're not humans yet. I don't care if they're deformed, or retarded, or the wrong gender, the product of rape, or anything else. Even if they're perfect in every way. They're just not as important as the woman carrying them. Woman chooses to host the creature, creature lives. Chooses not to? Creature doesn't live. Period. Abortion up until like month 9, fine. Don't care. No special circumstances should be required. Change your mind? Fine. Smelled something off during breakfast and it made you queasy and then you got tired of morning sickness and you just want to be done with the whole pregnancy thing? Fine. I'll go get the vacuum for you. Bye bye fetus. Babies should be WANTED in order to be born. Imagine if every child out there had loving parents who wanted them...maybe we'd have fewer Mitch McConnel's running around.

You want to get biblical with it? Ecclesiastes 7:1. Babies ain't shit to God.

I have a daughter. I'm glad she's here. I love her. But I want her to be considered more important as a living woman than any unborn anything within her. Period. Her pursuit of happiness matters more than the potential life of a nonexistant human. Fetus make you sad? Kick out the unwanted tenant... "WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?" I did. And I determined that fetuses ain't shit.

Pearl clutching self righteous holier than thou assholes trying to claim God's will and protect their mental image of a fetus that they've decided to assign the ultimate value to... Fetuses ain't shit, neither is God. Neither one is actually here to petition for mercy or demand anything. Neither one gets to decide what happens. And humans trying to act on behalf of either of these nonexistant entities by forcing their views on others are just the worst.

For the record, I like kids. I think they're cool. I like seeing what they turn into as they grow. They should be supported in our society with programs, money, infrastructure, etc. But if they didn't make it out of the birth canal, the only thing that makes me sad, the only thing that stirs my emotion, is how much it might upset the mother. Not the loss of potential baby life.

This should be the entire fucking text of the law that replaces Roe: "Fetuses ain't shit - women matter more."

[SmartAleq]

Well, the abysmal ignorance of the majority of the population regarding the female reproductive system is a big driver of this shit. I mean, a lot of men actually think women are in conscious control of our periods, that we can stop and start them like peeing or holding in a shit or something. They buy the bullshit that fetuses have heartbeats when it's just a nerve response and the heart won't develop for MONTHS after that.

Basically this country was based on codifying the privileges of rich white men into law and fuck everybody else. The current batch of rich old white men in power are pissed off that women have choices and are choosing NOT to have kids because who the fuck can afford them these days? They're foreseeing a country where mix and brown and black kids are the majority and they are PISSED about it so they figure if they make abortion illegal, ignore rape and take away birth control they can stem the tide of the "wrong type of people" reproducing and force white women into baby slavery.

There's been a strong surge of searches for "vasectomy near me" and OB/GYNs who will do tubal ligation so expect some sort of pushback on that too. The thing is, if men freeze their sperm and get snipped and women freeze their eggs and get sterilized the entire world will be better off because that way no babies will be born that aren't very much wanted and planned for and cared about.

Forced birthers don't care about babies, they just want more control. One favorite tactic of abusive men is birth control sabotage because a pregnant woman or one with kids is more dependent and less able to leave. It's a sick fact that domestic abuse ramps up when women are pregnant and the #1 cause of death for pregnant women is murder. I really hope a trend develops where women forced to give birth drop it off at dad's house and disappear. That ought to send a very clear message--you made me have it so now it's your turn. Byeeee! Probably won't happen, though, women are SO indoctrinated to be caretakers.

[asahi]

https://www.businessinsider.com/brett-kavanaugh-dinner-mortons-swamped-calls-fake-reservations-roe-overturn-2022-7

A steakhouse chain is being flooded with phone calls and fake reservations over its defense of Associate Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh's "right" to "eat dinner" at one of its restaurants, where demonstrators gathered outside to protest his support of overturning Roe v. Wade.

The "right" to eat dinner, lol. The only thing richer than the irony here is Jeff Bezos.

1. Fuck Morton's

2. Triple Fuck Brett Kavanaugh

[BrickaBracka]

Fuck the world these assholes want to create.

[Random Precision]

I have been silent on this so far, not because I didn't have an opinion, but because I was too fucking pissed to speak rationally about it. Maybe I still am.

I've been seething since my home state passed a severely restrictive bill forbidding abortions after ~6 weeks, typically before a woman knows she's pregnant, with no exceptions for rape or incest. I repeat, no exceptions for rape or incest. When that point was brought up at the signing of the bill, Governor Abbott Asswipe said not to worry - they would arrest all of the rapists and put them in jail, so it would be okay. No mention of the FACT that rape is the most under-reported crime and a complete lack of recognition that once a man is a rapist, it's TOO FUCKING LATE, you complete asshole! It makes me want to slap the taste out of his head.

Smartie suggested that women forced to carry a pregnancy to term should just drop them off with the father, but I think they should all be bused directly to the Governor's mansion, the way he was busing asylum seekers to Washington. Let a few thousand babies start turning up on his doorstep to find out how much he really loves babies.

From now to November and beyond, the number one campaign statement from Democrats should be how the republicans support rape and incest as acceptable means of procreation. That they in fact are in favor of rape and incest and are determined to protect the parental rights of all such perpetrators against the evil women who would deny the rapists the right to be a father. This should be a fucking drumbeat all the way to the mid-terms. Refer to Brett Kavanaugh only as "accused rapist, Brett Kavanaugh". Someone else can think of a fitting title for Clarence Thomas.

Sorry this rambles a bit. Did I mention I was pissed off?

[SmartAleq]

S'okay, a lot of us are way too raw to even begin to talk about this shit. Problem with dumping babies at the governor's mansion is the fucktard would then pass a bill making child abandonment a capital crime--only for women, though. Men who abdicate THEIR responsibility by refusing to pay child support or taking on full or partial custody will be given a pass. I seriously think it's time the lawmakers in these states be given soap parties. Some guys you just can't get through to unless the lesson is delivered by other men who do it...forcefully. I would gladly contribute to the legal fund to defend those men and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.

[JackieLikesVariety]

I have been silent on this so far, not because I didn't have an opinion, but because I was too fucking pissed to speak rationally about it. Maybe I still am.

I hear you.

[AHunter3]

The absolute right of anyone capable of pregnancy and capable of indicating their choices to choose either to continue their pregnancy or to terminate their pregnancy shall not be abridged by any nation or any state or any family member regardless of that person's age or status or alleged mental state.

This right shall expire upon the cutting of the unbilical cord subsequent to birth.

Any nation not confirming this principle in law and in practice shall not be eligible to receive any financial or military support from the United States of America.

This principle will invalidate any prior or subsequent US law.

[Sunny Daze]

It's a nice thought.

[JackieLikesVariety]

it is - and very well said.

[asahi]

Fuck the world these assholes want to create.

Indeed, because it is a dark one, a highly regressive one.

In the past I would have been a bit cool to the idea of a group of protesters descending upon a political figure or a judge just because we/they didn't like an outcome.

But these "justices" exercised power and violated the traditions of their institution...because they can. Because they hold the power now, and they - and they alone - get to decide what the Constitution and all of the legal and political traditions really mean. And what's more, in the case of justices Alito and Thomas, they'll even cite their own past nutbar opinions, concurrences, dissents, whatever in helping them decide new cases.

No, when those in power who found there way there through subversion of the checks and balances and then upon their ascent to power deliberately subvert these mechanisms further to impose their own worldview on the rest of us, the rules about decorum and civility go out the goddamn window.

Sorry fuckers but you don't get to take away liberty on a whim and escape to your country club unperturbed.

[thorny locust]

Smartie suggested that women forced to carry a pregnancy to term should just drop them off with the father, but I think they should all be bused directly to the Governor's mansion, the way he was busing asylum seekers to Washington. Let a few thousand babies start turning up on his doorstep to find out how much he really loves babies.

I sympathize with suggestions like this -- but they leave the impression that the major problem is the care of children who have been born. While that's certainly part of the problem, the primary issue is forcing unwilling people to carry the pregnancy to term: to go through the entire experience of pregnancy, which while joyful for many is hellish for some and which can leave permanent physical and/or mental damage, and then the process of a full-term birth, ditto.


In the past I would have been a bit cool to the idea of a group of protesters descending upon a political figure or a judge just because we/they didn't like an outcome.

But these "justices" exercised power and violated the traditions of their institution

Part of the issue for me is that they said there is no right to privacy.

If there is no right to privacy, how can they themselves claim to be entitled to any?

[asahi]

Part of the issue for me is that they said there is no right to privacy.

If there is no right to privacy, how can they themselves claim to be entitled to any?

I think what the mean is, they'll decide which kinds of privacy you're entitle to, and which kinds you're not.

[Der Trihs]

Part of the issue for me is that they said there is no right to privacy.

If there is no right to privacy, how can they themselves claim to be entitled to any?As the line goes:

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”As far as they are concerned the right of privacy exists for them; but not for other people.

[asahi]

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/13/indiana-doctor-10-year-old-rape-victim-00045764

Indiana’s Republican attorney general said on Wednesday that his office planned to investigate the Indiana doctor who helped a 10-year-old rape victim who crossed state lines to have an abortion.

Get used to it.

Even if Dems somehow keep control of Congress and the WH, it won't matter. Part of the GOP's political strategy, and hence why they've prized control over the judiciary, is in returning power to the states. Dems will have to win state elections, not just federal races from now on, and the Republicans have made that damn hard to do.

[Sputnik]

Who didn't see this shit coming from Texas.

Sen. Ted Cruz believes the US Supreme Court was "clearly wrong" in its landmark 2015 Obergefell v. Hodges ruling that legalized same-sex marriage, the Texas Republican said Saturday.

This is just fucking insane, but in a world full of bigoted Republican hemorrhoids, it's clear they aren't done with attacking basic human rights. I hope Cruz chokes on a wad of chew at a NASCAR event.

[asahi]

Who didn't see this shit coming from Texas.

Sen. Ted Cruz believes the US Supreme Court was "clearly wrong" in its landmark 2015 Obergefell v. Hodges ruling that legalized same-sex marriage, the Texas Republican said Saturday.

This is just fucking insane, but in a world full of bigoted Republican hemorrhoids, it's clear they aren't done with attacking basic human rights. I hope Cruz chokes on a wad of chew at a NASCAR event.

Clarence Thomas basically encouraged people to challenge gay marriage.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/19-1392_6j37.pdf

For that reason, in future cases, we should reconsider all
of this Court’s substantive due process precedents, including Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell. Because any substantive due process decision is “demonstrably erroneous,”
Ramos v. Louisiana, 590 U. S. ___, ___ (2020) (THOMAS, J.,
concurring in judgment) (slip op., at 7), we have a duty to
“correct the error” established in those precedents, Gamble
v. United States, 587 U. S. ___, ___ (2019) (THOMAS, J., concurring) (slip op., at 9). After overruling these demonstrably erroneous decisions, the question would remain
whether other constitutional provisions guarantee the myriad rights that our substantive due process cases have generated. For example, we could consider whether any of the
rights announced in this Court’s substantive due process
cases are “privileges or immunities of citizens of the United
States” protected by the Fourteenth Amendment. Amdt.

Thomas seems to think his colleagues wouldn't agree with him to reverse those other privacy cases, and he may be right. But we really can't say with this court: they make it all up as they go along. That's the takeaway: we just don't know what they will or won't protect.

Even if they don't reverse gay marriage protections, I could certainly see the Court undermining gay rights in other ways, such as by sanctioning various forms of private sector discrimination.

[Der Trihs]

Even if they don't reverse gay marriage protections, I could certainly see the Court undermining gay rights in other ways, such as by sanctioning various forms of private sector discrimination.An obvious one would be to recognize the "gay panic defense (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_panic_defense)" as a legitimate one, which would effectively legalize murdering people for being homosexual. The more bodies that pile up, the happier they'll be.

[Sputnik]

I think you fenrised the quote tags there. That wasn't my quote.

[Pixel]

Fenrising quote tags is one of our sacred traditions.

[Der Trihs]

I think you fenrised the quote tags there. That wasn't my quote.Fixed, sorry.

[Sputnik]

No problem. I should warn you though, 2 more times and you have to wear the fenris suit for a day. It smells like a full cat box.

[Guinastasia]

Any word on Fenris?

[Baker]

Good news for those who support freedom of choice, at least for now, in the battle over abortion rights.

Kansans voted down an amendment to the state constitution that would have said there is no state right to abortion. This would not have banned abortion but would have left the way open for much greater restrictions on the procedure. As I type the vote is 83% counted and it's 60/40 NO/YES. So if every remaining vote was YES the amendment will still have been voted down.

[Rebo]

That is great news! It might not sound like much in the grand scheme of the Repugs, but people are speaking up. Finally.

[Rat Diva]

If it can happen in a red state like KS, it gives me a tiny shred of hope. And I'll take whatever shreds I can get.

[BJMoose]

Keep in mind that abortion really isn't a red/blue issue, though it usually is portrayed as such. Even in the rural counties about a third of the population voted to maintain the status quo. (That three times the number of folks in such counties who voted for Joe Biden.)

[asahi]

The one caveat is, I'm just curious to know who showed up at the polls. I'm guessing it was a lot of people who were highly motivated to vote against taking away abortion rights - a good thing, obviously.

But the abortion debate has often been 'decided' by ordinary elections, with people voting for candidates, not issues, and evaluating candidates on the merits of their personalities and the range of positions that they may take. And once these candidates get into office, they tend to misrepresent their constituents values and interests. Yet somehow, they get reelected, even after doing so.

Kansas is lucky that the Constitution explicitly protects abortion, but many states do not have such provisions. The war is still on, and while it is beyond clear how the majority of people feel about the issue of abortion, I don't see the war against reproductive rights stopping anytime soon. I think these radicals are just getting started.

If there's a solution, I think it's people becoming single issue voters for a time and voting against the party of autocracy - regardless of how they might feel about Joe Biden, AOC, the Squad, Bernie or any of the other high profile Dems and their position. As I put it in another post, when you've got a two-party system and one party has basically gone full-on authoritarian, there's no choice. The only choice is to vote against the party that's dressing up like fascists.

On that note, it should be noted that in Arizona, two Republican candidates won their nominations for statewide office by basically vowing to disregard democratic elections. And in Michigan, a candidate won her GOP nomination for governor by openly casting doubt on the 2020 election, despite all the evidence supporting its legitimacy. These are exactly the kinds of people who will vote to take away abortion, and other rights. Because power is their ideology.

[asahi]

And right on cue, Indiana proceeds to ban almost all abortions.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/06/indiana-assembly-passes-anti-abortion-bill-sends-it-to-governor

The Indiana senate approved the near-total ban 28-19, hours after house members advanced it 62-38. It includes limited exceptions, including in cases of rape and incest, and to protect the life and physical health of the mother. The exceptions for rape and incest are limited to 10 weeks post-fertilization, meaning victims could not get an abortion in Indiana after that. Victims would not be required to sign a notarized affidavit attesting to an attack.

In other words, not really much of an exception for rape and incest.

Idaho's law bans abortions even if it is to save the life of the mother. Ironically, they make exceptions for rape and incest. That law is scheduled to go into effect August 25.

It's good that Kansans went to the polls to vote against changing the constitution, but that's really an exception more than the rule. Yes, when you put the issue of abortion up for a vote, a majority of people want the Roe v Wade status quo - that's pretty clear.

But a majority of people keep getting suckered into not voting against authoritarians, and that is the problem. Once these people get into office, they stay there, and they strip people of rights because not enough people have figured out this one basic truth: the Republican party is evil, and it must be totally voted out of power. Unconditionally. No exceptions.