Picket lines: Where do you stand?

[Zeener Diode]

(Continued from here (https://www.giraffeboards.com/showthread.php?p=1813799#post1813799))

I think it's fair to assess each picket line you might encounter with regards to crossing.

[Wolf Larsen]

I make a call on how legit the grievance is. If I think management is behaving badly, I honor the picket line. If I think the strikers are going out of their way to gouge out higher compensation I cross it.

Examples: A local supermarket did a shitty cut of benefits. So I honored the picket line and the company backed off.

Back in LA, the teachers union struck even though the pension promises were way out from being fiscally sound. Did not honor that one. And CALSTRS (California State Teacher's Retirement System) is now underfunded by hundreds of billions of dollars and the tax payers are on the hook for it.

[Zeener Diode]

My default is to not cross a line but I will at least take a cursory look at the issues at hand. It's remotely possible that a union can be wrong.

I'll give an example: there was a lumber/wood processing manufacturer in the PNW that went on strike in the early 90s. Teamsters, which represented them, settled on a contract and recommended workers return to work. A large contingent of workers objected to the terms and chose to keep picketing, going "wildcat." The company I was working at had just certified Teamsters to represent them, but did not yet have a binding agreement. My job was making deliveries to the offices of the lumber company around the region (mostly payroll and inter-office shipments). My supervisors specifically directed me to ignore the picketers; Teamsters agreed that the strikers were not sanctioned by them, but asked us to respect the lines. One of my coworkers was fired for refusing to cross a line in Longview, WA; on the occasion I was directed to cross the line, but after I reported that I felt threatened by strikers (I wasn't, they were well-behaved) no one else was directed likewise. The lumber company had to come to our station to get their deliveries.

[Zeener Diode]

Sure, I'll continue the hijack.

We need MORE unions. Specifically, we need white-collar unions. Corporate America is farming out so much work, and I'm not (necessarily) talking internationally. It's cheaper to hire temps from an agency than it is to hire full-time employees and pay them benefits. It's easier to hire programmers on a project basis. Had a friend who only did contract work. No insurance; no pension. Paid the bills, but no stability. All the C-levels see is dollars; coming from the inside, I see inconsistency and inefficiency. Yes, there is a large training cost to new hires. Guess what? There's pretty much the same training cost to the new temps, and they're more likely to move on.

White collar jobs and service-industry jobs have long been a target for union organizers; they recognize the fertile ground for corporate abuse and opportunity to gain members. The SEIU has done a lot in organizing and securing binding agreements with employers, but the rise of gig work and independent contractors now threaten their security. I strongly support the push to organize Uber, Lyft, Amazon, and Starbucks. The Burgerville union (https://bvwu.iww.org/) is a tiny step towards achieving this goal.

[Jaglavak]

In spite of my uniformly bad experience with unions, I understand why they are necessary and do generally respect a picket line. But when unions start acting like thugs then fuck them, I will stroll through those lines all day long.

I also think a union should be required to accept anyone who wants to join and actually send them out on jobs in order to be certified as a union. If they get caught favoring their buddies then they are no longer a union and let the boss fire them all.

[Zeener Diode]

In spite of my uniformly bad experience with unions, I understand why they are necessary and do generally respect a picket line. But when unions start acting like thugs then fuck them, I will stroll through those lines all day long.

If they're acting thuggish, the last place I want to be is attempting to cross their picket lines. Like others have mentioned, I'll take my business elsewhere.

[Pogo]

Sure, I'll continue the hijack.

We need MORE unions. Specifically, we need white-collar unions. Corporate America is farming out so much work, and I'm not (necessarily) talking internationally. It's cheaper to hire temps from an agency than it is to hire full-time employees and pay them benefits. It's easier to hire programmers on a project basis. Had a friend who only did contract work. No insurance; no pension. Paid the bills, but no stability. All the C-levels see is dollars; coming from the inside, I see inconsistency and inefficiency. Yes, there is a large training cost to new hires. Guess what? There's pretty much the same training cost to the new temps, and they're more likely to move on.

White collar jobs and service-industry jobs have long been a target for union organizers; they recognize the fertile ground for corporate abuse and opportunity to gain members. The SEIU has done a lot in organizing and securing binding agreements with employers, but the rise of gig work and independent contractors now threaten their security. I strongly support the push to organize Uber, Lyft, Amazon, and Starbucks. The Burgerville union (https://bvwu.iww.org/) is a tiny step towards achieving this goal.

When I worked at Boeing I was a member of SPEEA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Professional_Engineering_Employees_in_A erospace) which is affiliated to IFTPE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Federation_of_Professional_and_Techn ical_Engineers). In ~2000, SPEEA members voted to strike. I didn't vote that way but I observed the strike (hey! I'm a democrat from Pittsburgh!) At the time (Maybe still to this day), it was said that the strike was the nation's largest-ever white collar strike.

I don't really think it 'worked out' though. For example, the only changes for me were 1) losing ~ two months salary and 2) having the possibility of a year-end bonus that was worth about two months salary IF the company caught up on the lost work.

[Detroit Hoser]

I will not cross a picket line, period.

[SmartAleq]

I'm with Hoser, there is NO way I can possibly be informed enough about the inner workings of either a corporation or a union I don't work for or belong to for me to make an informed judgment on the validity of the strike action--I default into knowing that union busting is a completely sanctioned corporate activity, that worker protections are essentially nonexistent and that getting people to lose pay for a strike means they are fed up enough and pissed off enough to risk their safety and their livelihood. If for no other reason, I honor their courage EVEN IF it is misplaced. Therefore, I won't cross the line and if I see picketers while I'm out and about I'll give 'em a holler of "UNION STRONG!" and honk my car horn to let them know they aren't alone. I have much more in common with even the most venal worker than I do with even the most evenhanded and generous CEO and it will always be that way. I support labor.

[AHunter3]

I haven't crossed a picket line so far but as of yet I haven't been in a situation where genuinely necessary services or goods were only available if I did.

I've always been cynical about the modern incarnation of organized labor, without it translating into a drop of sympathy for the corporate bastards. I think all unions should push to have employee compensation be tied to a percent of some aggregate representing e.g. [the corporate profits + the compensation paid to the corporate officers, with a minimum floor] , instead of settling on a specific wage that may look nice today but will get stale with inflation. Tying wages to corporate profits gives the workers a vested interest in corporate success while at the same time taking a chop at exploitative arrangements where the corporation rakes it in but doesn't share it. And my first handful of experiences as unionized labor were in settings where union bosses had to approve my hiring and got a chunk of my nominal wages and imposed a bunch of rules on the workers and all in all were just another layer of bosses and didn't go to bat for us in any significant way that I could see.

I came to respect labor unions a lot more after being taught the history of organized labor. But I still feel like that train jumped the track at some point and became something other than how it started out.

[hajario]

My default is to support a labor union. It's pretty rare that I even have an opportunity to even see pickets and I am not going to bother reading up on every one anyway so I won't cross.

The Southern California Grocery Workers Union (or whatever they are called) can fuck off. Until they change their ways, I will not support them.

[silenus]

What Hoser said. I won't cross a picket line. Period.

[What Exit?]

I've never crossed one, but I've rarely come across any either.

I'm not exactly a pro-union person though. I thought pre-Reagan they were out of control. Now I think we need more Unions and with more power. The balance has swung way too far the other way.

[C2H5OH]

I'll cross a picket line. If you get violent about it, I'll kill you where you stand. And not think about it at all...

That said, I've never been in a position to cross one. So it becomes "meh", I don't care. Get back to me when it matters...

[JackieLikesVariety]

I came to respect labor unions a lot more after being taught the history of organized labor.

same, although I already was pro union because both my parents were. I will not cross a picket line.