Support for Abortion falls.

[Chacoguy]

From HERE (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/01/abortion.poll/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn) I must confess a bit of confusion; according to the article, a bunch of folks have become more pro-life/anti-abortion since Obama got elected. If you're an American, you've almost certainly thought about the legality of Abortion; most likely you've discussed/argued the issue with others. It seems, to me, that once someone forms an opinion about the legality of Abortion, that belief is pretty rigid. Apparently, I'm wrong and there are millions of Americans whose belief can be swayed by whom is in the White House.

So, my question is this: How rigid are your opinions on this, hot button issue? I could see someone's views changing, either way, due to an unwanted/unexpected pregnancy. But, could some lesser event change your mind? Do you know someone whose mind could be changed?(i.e. a discussion with a close friend, a presidential election etc.)

Please, everyone, I realize that this is an emotionally charged issue. DO NOT derail my precious thread by trying to debate the Abortion Issue itself. That has been done ten million times in a million other places.

[Elyanna]

My opinions on this issue are very rigid.

[AHunter3]

My perspective on the issue itself is extremely unlikely to change, but I have far less contempt, and more respect, for the PEOPLE who are on the other side of the issue than I used to. (Dunno if that's relevant or not)

[Victor Frankenstein]

I'm pro choice about all things medical (abortion, end of life/quality of life, etc). I do not expect this to change as I've been through a number of these things myself and I have no regrets.

[mlerose]

My beliefs/opinions on this issue are quite rigid and I can't imagine them changing.

[john ingram]

The thing that immediately struck me about that article is:

feel abortion should be legal in all or most cases

If that was the way that question was phrased, I'm not surprised by the outcome. Without seeing the actual questions on the poll, I'm hesitant to lend any credence to it, or how it rates against previous polls. If the poll had questions rated on various degrees of support for abortion (partial birth vs. incest or rape abortions), then I'd be interested to see those results. Otherwise the article leads me to believe that the poll was flawed.

[jayjay]

Extremely rigid. There is NO chance they'll change.

[john ingram]

And, to stay on topic, my views have not changed in 15 years. I doubt that they ever will.

[Trepa Mayfield]

Very flexible. I'm not willing to take a firm stance until the issue directly* affects me.

*Which means "directly affect someone I know" since I'm a male

[Radical Edward]

Extremely rigid, it would take some huge drastic thing to change my mind.

[Uthrecht]

Pretty much set, unlikely to change.

[blank]

Set here too- I tend not to let external influences effect my views anyway.

[WednesdayAddams]

Exremely rigid, and they will not be changing.

I will note a couple of things:

1. I wish they'd stop calling it 'support for abortion.' It isn't the abortion people are supporting. No one is for an abortion. They support the right to have one.

2. I have noticed a trend with opinion polls: ISTM that those who answer them are those who feel most strongly about the subjects being polled. And while there is very little middle ground with respect to this particular subject, there are those on both sides who feel very strongly about it indeed and those who have their opinion but aren't as passionate about it as others.

It's interesting to note that opinion appears to be statistically split down the middle. It has been at or near that since the inception of the law. I'm not sure I see that changing.

[severe delays]

I think it's perfectly possible to hold opposing viewpoints and possibly it's not surprising that one or other will hold more sway at different times in a person's life. In general I am pro-choice when it comes to abortion but personally the idea horrifies me. Which is not to say I wouldn't have an abortion if I felt it was the right thing to do.

Moral black-and-white issues are often much more complex than extremists on either side would have us believe.

[Mirhanda]

I can't see myself changing my mind on the issue of choices.

[Doyle]

I'm generally pro-choice, but I do find late term abortions disturbing. (I know know they're rare) But, being a pragmatic person, I don't see it as yes or no issue. Also, I find it strange that progressive Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law)has tougher laws in general than here in the US.

I know this question is nothing new, but which ever side you come down on, would you entertain abortion (on demand) laws that permitted it in the early stages of pregnancy, but outlawed it in the later ones? Also, lets pretend that this is not just a step to outlaw abortion completely.

[jayjay]

I know this question is nothing new, but which ever side you come down on, would you entertain abortion (on demand) laws that permitted it in the early stages of pregnancy, but outlawed it in the later ones? Also, lets pretend that this is not just a step to outlaw abortion completely.

This is more or less the way it is now. Third-trimester abortions in most states that allow them usually require two doctors' opinions as to medical necessity. There is no state that I'm aware of that you can get a late-term abortion on demand, and I don't believe that any but the most fanatic of pro-choice supporters would have a problem with that.

[Doyle]

This is more or less the way it is now. Third-trimester abortions in most states that allow them usually require two doctors' opinions as to medical necessity. There is no state that I'm aware of that you can get a late-term abortion on demand, and I don't believe that any but the most fanatic of pro-choice supporters would have a problem with that.

I suppose the question is - when is it a late -term abortion?

[WednesdayAddams]

A late term abortion is third trimester. There is precisely one doctor (http://coloradoindependent.com/30017/late-term-abortion-doctor-decries-tiller-killing-this-is-a-fascist-movement) remaining in the United States who performs late term abortions, and those are done only for a very few reasons:

1. Health of the mother is seriously compromised
2. Non-viable fetus: Fetus is so damaged that it will not live through labor or will only live for a very short time afterward (hours)
3. Fetal death.

I can only imagine how heart rending it must be to know that the baby inside you is dead, and you will STILL be forced to go through several painful hours of labor, and once 'born,' there will be nothing that can be done to revive it.

[Doyle]

A late term abortion is third trimester. There is precisely one doctor (http://coloradoindependent.com/30017/late-term-abortion-doctor-decries-tiller-killing-this-is-a-fascist-movement) remaining in the United States who performs late term abortions, and those are done only for a very few reasons:

1. Health of the mother is seriously compromised
2. Non-viable fetus: Fetus is so damaged that it will not live through labor or will only live for a very short time afterward (hours)
3. Fetal death.

I can only imagine how heart rending it must be to know that the baby inside you is dead, and you will STILL be forced to go through several painful hours of labor, and once 'born,' there will be nothing that can be done to revive it.

From what I've read, late term abortions could start being considered, by some, as early as 16 weeks. This is kind of my question. I think most people agree that an abortion should not be performed in the third trimester, save for the reasons you mentioned. If you noticed on the link, Germany, UK, Italy, and others only allowed abortion on demand through the first trimester.

[mlerose]

I think considering 16 weeks to be late-term is absolutely ridiculous. Many women don't even get an ultrasound until 20 weeks or later. And sometimes that's the first/only indication something is so direly wrong that someone might choose to abort a fetus at that stage.

[WednesdayAddams]

From what I've read, late term abortions could start being considered, by some, as early as 16 weeks. This is kind of my question. I think most people agree that an abortion should not be performed in the third trimester, save for the reasons you mentioned. If you noticed on the link, Germany, UK, Italy, and others only allowed abortion on demand through the first trimester.
16 weeks is barely out of the first trimester, so that's hardly 'late term.' Either those people can't count or they are unaware of the fact that higher brain functions are not even present until approximately 22 weeks. At which point most abortion providers will no longer perform abortions. IIRC, Planned Parenthood's cutoff is 21 weeks.

[Uthrecht]

So, um, should we start a new thread to start debating the abortion issue itself then?

[Doyle]

I'm not debating, I'm just asking questions to learn about a subject that I'm not that well informed. It sounds like 20 or 21 weeks is about right.

[Darmund]

Abortion Falls is probably not as popular a honeymoon destination as Niagara Falls, I would think.

[Doyle]

Abortion Falls is probably not as popular a honeymoon destination as Niagara Falls, I would think.

Khampelf would be proud.

[Uthrecht]

You don't want to know what they send over in a barrel, though.

[Darmund]

Khampelf would be proud.
I know. I kind of hate myself right now.

[severe delays]

From what I've read, late term abortions could start being considered, by some, as early as 16 weeks. This is kind of my question. I think most people agree that an abortion should not be performed in the third trimester, save for the reasons you mentioned. If you noticed on the link, Germany, UK, Italy, and others only allowed abortion on demand through the first trimester.
Just to nitpick: the UK at no point permits abortion on demand. The law requires two doctors to agree that there is significant risk to the physical or mental health of the mother, or to the health of her other children. Interpretation of that varies depending on the doctor.

Now in reality that means that women can abort based on judgements about the impact to their mental health and this in essence becomes abortion on demand. But from a purely legal point of view you can't just get one whenever you want. </nitpick>

There was a bit of a furore recently over the time limit. It's 26 weeks unless there are dire medical problems. Evidence of foetuses developing higher brain function earlier than the 1967 law first considered possible led to questions being asked about whether this shouldn't be put back to 24 weeks. AFAIK this wasn't ever settled on and the basics of the law remains the same.

[WednesdayAddams]

Abortion Falls is probably not as popular a honeymoon destination as Niagara Falls, I would think.
Hence the need for support.

[Doyle]

Just to nitpick: the UK at no point permits abortion on demand. The law requires two doctors to agree that there is significant risk to the physical or mental health of the mother, or to the health of her other children. Interpretation of that varies depending on the doctor.

Now in reality that means that women can abort based on judgements about the impact to their mental health and this in essence becomes abortion on demand. But from a purely legal point of view you can't just get one whenever you want. </nitpick>

There was a bit of a furore recently over the time limit. It's 26 weeks unless there are dire medical problems. Evidence of foetuses developing higher brain function earlier than the 1967 law first considered possible led to questions being asked about whether this shouldn't be put back to 24 weeks. AFAIK this wasn't ever settled on and the basics of the law remains the same.

Thanks for the info.

[SmartAleq]

IIRC, 24 weeks is the standard deadline to be labelled "late term."

My view that nobody has any right or say in what medical procedure a person has other than the patient and doctor involved is not gonna change, at all, ever.

[Ken S.]

I'm completely right. Why would I change?

[Defenestrator]

I have changed my mind in the past, but I really don't see it changing now.

[Chacoguy]

I have changed my mind in the past, but I really don't see it changing now.

If I may, what changed it? If it's too personal, simply don't reply.

[Defenestrator]

If I may, what changed it? If it's too personal, simply don't reply.

Eh, just talking to other people and reading about it on message boards. Also just a part of my general progression towards liberalness. Of course now that I am pregnant, that pretty much confirms my stance. I wouldn't wish this on anyone who didn't want it, for whatever reason.

[Flyfisheron]

Personally I'm pro-choice, and I don't think that anything will ever change that.

And as a man....... I don't think I have the right to tell any woman what she can or can not do with her own body.

[Giraffe]

Interesting thread topic. I think my views on abortion are still pretty firm, but they are a bit less rigid than they used to be.

[wring]

I found that my opinion on "what should be the position of the government on abortion" hasn't changed a bit. I also found that "what should I personally do" was a more complex question.

[Ratel]

Firm but not cast in stone.

[SoylentPopTart]

Pretty firm, in fact

And as a man....... I don't think I have the right to tell any woman what she can or can not do with her own body.

sums it up quite nicely.

[Uthrecht]

And as a man....... I don't think I have the right to tell any woman what she can or can not do with her own body.

Well, if it's my kid, I'd like just a widdle bit of say in it.

[John Corrado]

My views on abortion are completely muddy, and therefore change on whim.

I personally think abortion is destroying a life, and a terrible thing. Whether I think that means it should be illegal, as opposed to focusing on making sure that no woman is in a position of needing one, is murky and changes year to year.

And whether I'd remain firmly of the belief that abortion is a horrible thing if I were the father of an unplanned and inconvenient preganancy is a bridge I have not yet crossed and cannot predict my reaction to, so I tend not to care about the isssue at all.

[Andrew Jackson's Hair]

Not at all rigid. I don't stand much chance of ever being substantively disadvantaged by illegalized abortion in America. I don't really care either way.