Vegas Mafia Night Five
 

With their bankroll running perilously low, the gamblers debated and agonized over the odds until the last minute. Finally, they decided to let it all ride on Bashorian Clement. Everyone held their breath as the final card was dealt...

Welcome to the game, you are Town Auditor. Immediately after the death of any other Town power role, you will receive a report of who they targeted and when, as well as any results they received. You win when all anti-Town forces have been eliminated.

But that's not all! With Bashorian's death, TexCat has fulfilled her Third Party win condition!! Congratulations to TexCat for a very well played game!

:party:

Welcome to the game, you are a Third Party Stalker. You don’t really care about the big picture, you just want to carry out your petty personal vendettas. You have no special powers other than your voice and your vote. You win if you stay alive until your archrivals Mahaloth and Bashorian Clement are dead (note: your archrivals have been selected at random without regard for role or alignment!). If you win, you leave the game, but the game continues until either Town or Scum reach their win condition.

But that...well, that pretty much is all, because that leaves four players in the game, and two of them are scum, so the Elvis impersonators have just left the building and SCUM WINS!

Congratulations to Colby11 and AsktheSilverPizza, and of course to our new friend Kaiveran. So many townies played super well, too. This was a very fun game to mod (despite the fact that I did in fact mess up on the LightFoot order).Thanks to everyone for playing, and I hope you had a good time. Remember, what happened in Vegas stays in Vegas.:handwave:

Hahahaha! Beautiful!

I should have voted more cleanly. Well played TexCat!

Bashorian's role was as he claimed.

Welcome to the game, you are Town Auditor.
Immediately after the death of any other Town power role, you will receive a report of who they targeted and when, as well as any results they received.
You win when all anti-Town forces have been eliminated.


Guiri and Meeko were vanilla town, SilverPizza was vanilla scum, and Colby was vengeful:

Welcome to the game, you are Scum Vengeful. Your partners are XXX and you can talk with them at YYY.
If you are ever killed, you will earn a bonus kill on the cycle AFTER your death.
You win when all Town and any hostile Third Party players have been eliminated.

Yeah we were killing Guiri or Meeko tonight, unless BC didnt flip in which case we'd have shot him just in case his claim was a 3p hostile to us.

Guiri town MVP, carried so much of the town on his back, poured his heart and soul into it.

I was moving my vote there at the end to make it seem like it mattered to the outcome for us, in case there was a last minute CFD onto colby or myself.

Didn't actually suspect texCat. Glad to have not voted legally, so she can get the win too. 3p wins are hard to get. I'd have been sad if my completely unrelated and blind to the result shenanigans suddenly denied her an earned win.

Glad that vote did not count!

If people piled on Colby today, he'd have taken out Guiri and then Meeko was my murder tonight.

I felt like I'd be able to win an endgame with TexCat and BC in it, and clearly I would have since she has a goal to eliminate BC.

Would have been very Vegas if she had had to win one more coin flip, though!

To all townies:

I completely whiffed on the alignments of Colby, Jan, and TexCat when I guessed from the sidelines. That was really difficult to guess.

I thought I was gonna be town. This team didn't look like a team at any point, it was hard to connect all 3 together.

She made her own luck, because I thought she was town up to the end.

If i had a hint she might be a threat, me and Colby could have annihilated her at the end. I asked Colby to be ready to move votes, even.

Because she hid well, no such annihilation happened, even though we had the option clearly in our hands.

I didnt ask Colby to move votes, because of that, she won, directly because she fooled me specifically.

Thats earned. Earned is way better than luck, imo.

@TexCat I knew you could still fool me, you awesome person.

Little did you know that you could take both of us out in one go.

Fun game. Thanks Eristic!

Mahaloth, I felt bad for continuing to push you.

Did yall know that Lightfoot was doc, or was that just luck?

Vanta with the crumb that is nearly undetectable until Vanta flipped, that was amazing play. Great game by Vanta.

I did not get a chance to see which townies guessed which scums correctly because I didnt fully iso AA or VB, but if you found any of them scummy, well done. You picked better than I did.

Finding any of them is a wp gg moment. They didn't stick out as scummy to me. Little did I know until I subbed in.

Wow that was a lot of investigative power for town. No wonder, the third party here acted like an extra mafioso given who she was randed to stalk.

Even with that power, it makes it difficult for town to overcome. I think Guiri more or less had to guess exactly me today to win the game for town, which is too tall a task.

Even just guessing colby loses for town in that position, because meeko and guiri would both be dead by dawn.

That's near impossible, and Guiri still didn't just sheep me, he was solving it out at all hours of the day for days. There's vast sections of my scumchat where all I am doing is praising his play and wishing I was town so I could give him a hand instead.

It broke my heart at the time, realizing now you basically had to pick me exactly to win, that's even more of a kick.

Geez, Guiri. What a hell of a player.

She had no cover and there were at least two posts she made which outed her.

She was easy to find because the people who didn't claim were mostly scum and the people who did claim claimed VT credibly, it was her or meeko and her posts where she knew Guiri was town and another one earlier on were scumslips or doc tells, and when you scumslip as town, you're a PR.

The scumslip was her knowing Guiri's alignment after the town cop died.

Only scum or the doctor could know that. So she was the doc.

It was not the hardest town PR to find. But it keeps my streak alive, there's been rarely a game I can't find them.

But I mean, it was like 2 candidates. anyone with my scum team could have found her. She played well, it was NOT her fault we found her.

Fewer vt claims would have given her cover.

https://www.giraffeboards.com/showpo...48&postcount=8

Here I basically outed that I knew LF was the town doctor because she confirmed Guiri's alignment as town. Because I hunt town PRs as town, to try to give them cover if I can, I can do that and not be outed as scum. But I basically did admit I doc hunted when I said that, and a lot of people would kill you if you admitted that.

I was being true to what I'd do as town. I found Silverjan last game I was on here when it was less than clear she was the doctor, and kept her alive and countered false claims against her, on fewer hints. That was a much harder find than LF here.

Well played. I had niggling feeling that it could be the two of you, and that’s why I included SilverJan in my ISOs, Bashorian just felt too easy, but hey, it was a very quiet game, little participation, and I often felt I was being too noisy… and that’s after playing a champs qualifier and mash on mafia universe where people were posting 150 posts a day…

You were heroic, dude.

I had no idea that on that last day, you were basically dead in the water because we already essentially had 3 votes. I had no clue.

I was still scared I'd make a mistake that you could catch, so I said little and waited for it to be too late.

I also advised Colby not to rock the boat. I was scared to death of you.

You literally needed to execute me exactly, rather than Colby, in that position, and have Meeko and BC both follow you, and then it could have still ended up in a tie thanks to TexCat.

If I died first, no vengeful kill comes from Colby and that means 2 townies survive to final 4.

It was the ONLY way to win from the position of final 6, if I am understanding correctly, now. I think we'd have needed to kill TexCat for you, too.

That's too hard. It's legit too hard unless SJ looked significantly scummy. I arrived too late on D4 for me to really be in danger, there was a huge wagon on a townie.

The hole was too deep, and you still nearly filled it in. I was in awe.

You were in an outnumbered, overpowered position and the scums were still commenting on your desire to solve independently, combing over each suspect carefully, trying so hard to clear BC (correctly), not just sheeping me and still suspecting Colby even though I kept trying to direct you onto BC.

You were top poster every day and you tried to solve hard every day, and never gave up on anyone. You were a fair juror and a good investigator.

You needed to have a fully active Meeko (RL seemed to pull Meeko away from the game more and more, not their fault) and Bashorian, it was difficult and scummy to make arguments that he was not town.

He also found it bad that I couldn't read his alignment correctly, and was right to suspect there, but like, every townie near endgame needed to align flawlessly to win that, it was really difficult for that to happen.

Really no one should kick themselves. When I subbed in I was like, I was never getting this solution, and all I have to do to win is not die. I basically voted with the majority and pretended to solve, that's it.

It didn't feel earned from me. Colby, Jan, and Kai, on the other hand, I don't feel that way. They earned it.

That was hard to find. It really was, didn't look paired at all.

If you found pairings you're better at it than I am, and that's what I think is my top skill. Did not find them.

Good game, everybody! Hey, possibly my best town game ever, maybe I should always die N1 before I can really screw up.

My D1 scum guesses were not too bad. Kaiveran (duh; I really hoped not, but after a certain N1 post I was pretty sure), TexCat, guiri. I thought Colby was 3P if there was one.

If I'd stayed in the game I probably would have reversed my town lean on LightFoot, at least for awhile, and my scum lean on guiri, definitely. Great effort from guiri, much appreciated!

Well played scum, especially Silverjan. I'm usually suspicious of her, and I wasn't at all. Kudos to TexCat for patience and guile.

Really fun setup TMQ.

That was a top tier snipe of Kai and a great crumb, VB.

Lightfoot doctoring Guiri was also a great call. Good usage of powers from the town powers that were able to survive that could choose targets.

Concur on TexCat's play, she blended in with town well, and early on sorta hinting she wasnt a town PR pulled murders off of her.

If she had randed any mafioso as a target I feel like it would have made the game harder for her to win and easier for town, but it might have made it unbalanced for her specifically. This was the correct amount of challenge for a solo semi-scum with no kill powers. It's really hard to get that balance right.

Not a single scum on the D1 yeet roster…

That was a rough D1. Townies guessing while blindfolded, on no case, no vote history, and no evidence, and town PRs are often scummy looking because they have something to hide and dont want to attract murders.

"Day one always sucks" isn't literally true, but it's my slogan for a reason. Town is liable to make big mistakes that they don't really have any reason not to make, yet.

Some games you get cursed with bad day ones. When I make setups, I try to make sure town still has a fair shot of it if their best PR dies d1 or n1, because town is liable to step on their own feet that day.

Actually catching scum d1 on visible logical reasons is a real triumph unless their mistakes are really grossly obvious.

I think this setup did account for that and town did have sufficient power after d1 misyeet. It only was when it got near endgame that the 3p was never found that town got grossly overpowered and it ran away from them.

D4 was sort of the precipice. Needed to pull back then, otherwise it was dooming odds.

Well played Texcat and Scum, and another standing ovation for Guri battling it out to the bitter end

Thanks to EW for running it.

I was wondering about this, I tried to be a bit coy and specifically not claim VT as that just reduces the pool for scum to hunt in, and to claim VT if you are a PR but later claim a PR gets into that ' they lied ' problem. Claiming VT early as a VT just seems a like a bad idea.

Not the most convincing plan I've ever hatched. Well, it worked...kinda.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...790/6lxvkn.jpg

Anyways, rreowrf! Congrats on a game well played, everybody!

Especially TexCat, who played the long game and pulled it off handsomely even in the awkward "hard aligned with wolves but neither knows it" situation that D5 was. I was pulling for this joint win from the grave 1000%, and I am incredibly pleased that it actually happened.

That said, it was no guarantee, by a long shot. This was a nail biter right to the end. Especially with guiri and Meeko crawling on us to the extent they did. Christ, you two are terrifying to play against, each for your own reasons. If more townies were just a bit more interested in brain-slamming this game along with you, we would've had a snowflake's chance on Nevadan asphalt.

The power roles this game also all got useful results and were pretty non-obvious outside of the LF/Guiri situation, so I'd say they played their roles well.

But enough of that silly shit – I've got some major air pollution to clear, with two players in this game in particular.

-------------

@Meeko

1.
Abso-fucking-lutely. I've learned not to take anything in an IM/UR game personally. Specific reasons will be gotten into shortly, but the gist of it is: it's all bullshit that we made up for fun. Nobody's really mafia, no one's really getting killed or investigated for said killings. It is – and I will repeat this until I'm blue(r) in the face – a guessing game and role-playing game, nothing more. So I try my damndest just to play my role, make my guesses, and not give too much of a shit about it. That care should be reserved for one's fellow players. As a wise man once said:



2.
My answer here is somewhat of a corollary to the above. Sometimes I get in my feelings and forget the wisdom I've just shared. But that's not your fault, and it's up to me to come to my senses, not you to apologize. Your handling of D2 was 100% pro-town and you did not a single unacceptable thing – don't you dare let the fact that I was spilling my own shakerful of salt all over the thread tarnish that achievement for you. You kicked my ass fair and square, and I can do nothing but congratulate you for it.

3.
This one asks for a bit more elegance, tact, and word count than the others, I reckon. Still, I think I can open with a simple enough statement:

Yes, I can verify that everything I said in that one indent in that one post is nothing but the truth.

It is entirely rational to not be sure if you can trust me, as we've only just met. I can promise you now, though – I will never ever twist OOG info, much less personal issues of dignity and respect, into mere ammunition for advantage in this silly game. That is incredible dickhead behavior.

And if this vow is ever found to be broken, I not only want to be banned indefinitely from Giraffe Boards, but I want everyone here to go to any other sites they play on, and tell them about me, and how I should be blacklisted on both the player side and host side by basically anyone with any measure of self-respect.

Because I know from bitter firsthand experience - that shit is toxic, ruins games, and destroys communities.

I knew a few people who didn't give a shit about any of that. People for whom anything and everything was fair game. They'd lie and cheat and manipulate remorselessly, not caring who they cut or how deep, as long as it got them their Ruby, their Gold Award, their stats boost, or even just for giggles.

There were a million justifications for this behavior, of course. The Wild West era of the Internet was not yet over, and common knowledge was you didn't survive if you had thin skin. Being an outright, unapologetic asshole was still semi-expected.

But we know better now. In the end, when you get down to brass tacks, there is a line to be drawn on what is and not acceptable in this game, and they fell afoul of it. They are incompatible. Either they go, or the community goes.

So I hope you all realize how important this is. This is a cautionary tale. I hope to fuck this is not the type of villain I live long enough to become – because I love the game and many of the people I've met within it – but if it is, I want no fucking mercy. I want the hammer to drop on my skull, hard. Because then, I'll be more likely to realize that I'm the asshole, and turn myself around while I still can.

I confess, I see more of myself in these guys than I like to admit. That's where the worry comes from. I get the intense competitive spirit that possessed most of them, because there were many times it possessed me too. Even when I was a highly respected member of my communities, with excellent standing and good relations with 90+% of the players – when I reminisce on these "glory days", what always bubbles up first from that mnestic hot tub is the intense passion and drive I had to do better and dominate at the game. To improve at every step, to learn from every failure, to hone both my verbal and mechanical skills into deadly weapons with which I crushed my foes.

Like them, I wanted to be The Greatest.

Unlike them, I was not, and am not, willing to fuck over my friends to do it.

I am not willing to poison a ludic well that so many drink from to forget all the madness and toxicity they experience in life.

And it is my firm belief that those who are willing to do that – who insist on bringing the madness and toxicity back in with them – should swiftly find themselves unwelcome in any Mafia community.

There must be balm in Gilead.

And honestly, being so loved and respected in those communities is what kept me from going over the line, always. If there ever was a clear choice between an okay winrate while keeping that love and respect, and a higher winrate that required me to shit all over it, I would without hesitation have chosen the former.

Because ultimately, in IM/UR, everything's made up and the points don't matter. What matters is the friends you make along the way – and if I can, eventually, count you and/or anyone else here among them, that's good enough for me.

Woof, rambling. That's what I do.

I'd attempt to bring things back, but I'm not sure going wayyy deep into the weeds of our original topic of discussion is appropriate for a postgame thread. Just know that being trans or NB or otherwise genderweird isn't about how miserable you are in the gender you're assigned, the expressions and configurations foisted on to you and/or expected of you. It's about how much better you feel when you try out something different, for your own sake. So if you find something in that wide open field that brings you joy, make note of it. Hold on to it. In a time and place that loves misery, it can be hard to let yourself feel joy. But you have to try, for your own sake.

Anything related you wish to discuss, my PMs are open.

While we're on the subject...

-------------

@Silverjan

In case it wasn't clear from the heart I gave this message – I accept your apology. I feel the need to apologize as well, for how harsh and confrontational I was immediately after in the N2 thread. Perhaps similar to your statement, it was a knee-jerk defensive reaction, without thinking.

If you're at all cognizant of the anti-trans moral panic sweeping the UK and US, my reaction might be understandable. Of course, that habit comes from (where else) social media, where mass blocks are a matter of survival, and anybody responding to my posts with anything remotely trans-negative could be a troll and/or obsessive engaging in bad faith, apparently for no other purpose than to make life miserable for me and people like me. I've gotten used to treading carefully and editing myself over the years, but honestly, I'm coming to the realization that it's all terrible and sucks and is just maliciously hacking our brains for maximum outrage and maximum profits.

Very few of the many shitty situations we currently find ourselves in would be possible without these huge, consolidated, corporate trash fires.

So nothing but solidarity on that front, comrade. As this is a very Web 1.0 refuge, let's try our best not to bring any more of that baggage in here, eh?

First, don't quit because of me. That would suck. Maybe this is already covered as of the above, but I want to make this clear as day.

Second, I don't particularly like gendered terms either. I would be happier than primordial scum around an undersea vent if every single "gendered" thing and concept simply vanished into thin air, and we could all do whatever the fuck we wanted with our earthly vessels and their ornaments, with no fear of reprisal. But unfortunately, that's not the world we live in, nor does it seem a soon-arriving future given everything hanging on them. So it's something we just gotta tough out for now, and I understand we all do this toughing out in our own unique ways.

And third, I understand your position entirely, simply from a pragmatic point of view. Before I had my own realization, I was – if not actively transphobic – a sworn die-hard believer in binary, immutable gender. After I realized I did not fit into these strictures, it's not like I set out to be weird as possible. In fact, the pronoun set I chose to use was rather conservative, making the most concessions to "polite society" while avoiding the numbering problem you cite in this post. It has the gender neutrality of "they", and is formed simply by removing the initial phoneme from the they/them set, but specifically inflects like a singular pronoun (ey is, ey does), and thus clearly refers to one person. As a writer of fiction, I know all too well how frustrating singular they can be – as soon as one person using it and one gestalt group get involved in the same sentence, it gets real confusing, real fast. That is, in fact, what motivated me to embrace neopronouns in the first place (which will be clear if I ever compile my latest bit of writing – a sci-fi flavor for an offsite game – into an easily accessible doc for public consumption.)

But that's only me, of course, ever concerned with practicality. Other people are not so concerned. Other people do not care at all, in fact, what will make their identity and presence palatable to large amounts of other people. As Harry Partch said, there will always be those who feel the need to go out and thumb their noses at society. They'll have the weirdest pronouns and be as ridiculo-gender as they please, with no deference or respect to anyone's traditions or opinions (bar a few compromises they deem required for survival, of course).

Those people are also valid.

Now whether all of those things are good ideas or not, and where the balance is to be found with any number of existing Human institutions – I hope you'll agree that these discussions are entirely outside the purview of an IM/UR game. Take it to "PPR" here, if you really want to. But in-game, what color is someone's pride flag or gender marker is of trivial concern, next to what color their rolecard is. We should play accordingly.

I try to tolerate and get along with everybody, and this absolutely includes you, Jan, so don't think I'm about to hold a grudge or try to be the Thought Police or anything.

Very often I am the weirdo, and people are trying hard to tolerate me. It goes both ways. Yes, there are often missteps along the way, but I always strive to amicably work through them with any community I find myself in. And I am always grateful for people extending their tolerance in this way, because it has always, always resulted in more fun games and better social cohesion within the playerbase. Without fail.

If we cannot end our differences, and we cannot make the world safe for diversity...well, at least we can help make our own little corners of the world safe for it.

-------------

Now that I've got all that cleared up, honestly, the biggest barrier to me playing here again is that I gave up the ghost prematurely, and now I'm gonna have a hell of a time not being on everyone's shit list, because now y'all know the depth of fakery I can pull off.

I went all out D2, and now Giraffe Boards knows what it looks like when I go all out. This is one of those things that a site remembers, like Pepperidge Farm.

So now I possibly have to deal with y'all Halfway Ruling the shit out of me every game, and/or taking all my words with a whole shakerful of salt because I'm Kai and everything I say and do can be part of my Dastardly Scum Plan.

But hey, that's how the game works. I've made my bed, and I've gotta sleep in it. If I'm going to be widely mistrusted and suspected by default, them's the breaks. I just gotta find some way to stretch and adapt to that. Just like in my glory days.

Adapt or die. Destroy, erase, improve.

And I never did this for recognition, or prestige, or any silly forum awards shows, but simply for the love of the game itself.

Hopefully, I'll have some time to think all this over, because I'm gonna try and host the next one :cool:

To everyone in this game, thanks for a good time!

Just now getting to check in as it is.

My time has not been my own.

Rrelated, how common is vinyl shower pan repair? My crack doubled in size today whil I was in.

I'll let you know if the boil on my chest is an ingrown hair, spider bite, or what.

Hopefully it will clear up faster than my shingles did (and still is)


Finally, did I mention my bed frame ?

And the two Thursdays from hell.


As i said a lot took my focus away from this game, this game.

Speaking of, hopefully Mendie will come around after my lunch (irl) before I clock in. She will clarify a few things.

Kaiveran

Apparently we ninja'd each other.

Thank you in advance. I scrolled through half of your hours long post here, at half, I knew I knew it was you. I appreciate the time you took. I will need more time to even begin to attempt to read this.... After work. A good 4 hours from now, easily.

Damn I need to put the phone down and eat.

Pizza and everyone else tends to have a lot of "post mortem" going on.

Good. Excellent. I intend to give all such posts their due time in reading, digesting, and responding.

I'd have more post mortem, if I had played more.

1. Revise my comments and vote on Kai over to "hunch" above all else, but my original vote reasons and rationale (as such) posts hold.

Mendie will cover the rest.

Pizza being scum, and me having had a vote on them .... And then being chickenshit, is THE thing I was trying to elucidate with my kai vote.

someone please take the phone from me, restrain my hands, and strap a feedbag on me already. Please.

So, I have been wanting to post this, but I didn’t want it to be the cause of the wolf win… cause I wanted to win without sympathy, and most of y’all aren’t on my Facebook.

If you check out my (very short) retirement post, I have a kiddo in the NICU. Well, he got to finally come home. He was born 3 months early, and spent 3.5 months in the hospital.

Now, his issues with his eyes have reappeared, so now we have to go back once a month for shots… and let’s add this onto a job, and the fact that said hospital is a 2 hour drive one way?

Yeah, it’s been a fun 3.5 months…

Back to the game…..

Guiri- I was so worried that you were going to flip onto me. I felt that it was only a moment away from it happening…

Meeko- much respect for you too. Hope things get better IRL

Post Prime - Vegas 0 - An awkward to end most of all of the awkwardness.

Hi. My Name is Mendie. I am trying a few things out here, and want to take a few minutes to clarify a couple of things.

1. I would like to test out using She / Her pronouns, please.

2. I will most likely, or at least until I find a better process, heavily rely on an outline structure [Such as this very frame and format here!] Complete with numbered lines and headings.

3. I reserve the right to make minor changes to this format.

4. Meeko is screaming at me here. He will hopefully confine himself to double parentheses (( I reserve the right to totally 86 all of Mendie, if I am brutally honest here. This is equal parts trial and experiment, for the both of us. Per se. I may have a few diagnoses, DID, is not one of them. I force a split here, per se, more out of convenience.))

5. Expect less posts.

6. Expect those posts to be more succinct and clear. I have a few more ideas on exactly how I want to create topics to play with, and respond to.

7. Quality, perhaps pointedly so, over quality.

8. I'm going to try to be less of a dick.

9. While 8 is true, yes, there is a pun in there. ((See, cause, If I'm looking at gender, from being Cismale, being less of a dick is kinda.. ))

9.5 They get the joke, Meeko. Shut up or I'll get the duct tape out.

10. Hopefully my humor, and random YouTube non sequiturs survive.

NETA

7. QUALITY OVER QUANTITY.



7. A. If Meeko were here, he would no doubt science/fail , facepalm , or Rebo here.

Damn, Meeko and his smileys. You want a casino? I swear that kid lives in one, what with all his flashy animations.....

I mean, it is Vegas Mafia!!

I highly recommend that people take a look at the dead chat – there is a lot of good commentary (and memes) there. Both PCM and I fully explain our play, at least

Can we see the scum chat?

Colby, sending hugs and good wishes for your kid.

I enjoyed the game, felt there was a little too much apathy, and it’s tough to get a read on people when they don’t post much. It’s a game and I hate to see people get bothered and walk way, of any alignment.

Looking through the dead chat, I don’t think we had any chance after the Mahaloth/Mordenkainen tie and follow-up. I seem to be good at finding PIS in town power roles and deducing they’re scum, I need to remember they could be town too (Gnarly and Bashorian). It was a pleasure to have Kai onboard this game, ey did a great job leaving no trail. Meeko did great too, Pizza’s whole “follow guiri” should have pinged me too, but hey, I was being pocketed.

About that, EoD vote shenanigans, there really were none, just me and one or both of the candidates. I almost forced three ties in 5 Days.

I will say, follow guiri came from the townie tactician side of me.

If I was town, and we are at endgame mylo or lylo with a mechanically clear person, there are two ways to play it that actually win the game, because voting divided allows last second snipes. I either follow you, or you follow me. There's no reason to follow me unless I make a case you believe, and I tried that. There no reason for me to not follow you if you insist, because voting divided loses. If I had been town there, everything I said except for who to target with the yeet was correct. every townie needs to vote with the cleared villager. Whether that cleared villager follows or makes the call, thats for the whole town to decide, and for the cleared villager to decide, but If hypothetically me and you had very different reads, and we did, you consider me a suspect and no one considers you one. Therefore that breaks the deadlock. I either follow you or town loses. I do my best to persuade you otherwise, but I have to. That is correct town play, even though it looks like pocketing. Anytime anyone is mechanically clear, they are going to feel pocketed by how others discuss them. It's also largely true for very strong and consensus town reads. Had I been town, I still wouldn't have suspected or cased Meeko, and Meeko would have considered that pocketing. But there wasn't much case to be made on Meeko all game and he was universally considered town, so much the same treatment goes there. The difference is you were paying close attention and were truly mechanically clear, so between the two of you, your opinion holds weight. All falls under how town should behave in endgame where they cannot vote divided. Like, you could vote my top town read and if people follow you, I can't throw my weight around or have a fit about it, I gotta go with it. If it didn't work out that way, and everyone agreed with me, I could then plead with you for unity and ask you to follow me, but if deadline approaches and you don't budge, I have to follow you or town loses, and that can be difficult to pull off since its more votes moving and not everyone is known to be present.

Most of what I did is what I would do as town, I do all the processes exactly as if I had no info, and then I mildly tweak my answers to match the scum agenda.

The only tweak I had to make was still recommending BC after Colby process slipped that he didnt have me as a suspect after having Jan as one earlier, without any step in between whatsoever.

As town that is 90 percent of a cop check that you're guilty. Townies generally need to have a reason to trust someone. Even a gut reason can be articulated. Tone matching what you think they'd be feeling, matching their town game very well, stuff like that. Sudden creeping doubt that theyre guilty, anything. As long as you visibly believe it, it can fly. Doesnt mean it always will, but it can.

That was why I was able to credibly accuse BC at all. He looked villagery everywhere, except when he couldnt explain why Colby was town to him, and then didnt actually believe it since Colby went back down to null on questioning about it.

BC probably had a reason, but he forgot it entirely and then couldnt figure out where in his process he brain farted a town read on colby, and because of that, got flustered. I think.

@Colby11

@Silverjan

I always give permission for folks to see scum chat, unless anyone objects.

Just say so in the chat which way you stand. One objection is all it takes for me to also object.

A peek inside my head:

Unless I think I could credibly do it as town, I will usually refuse to do certain things as mafia. My playstyle gives me a lot of options, but it also gives me certain non-options. I don't want to appear to be too out of character. I can be out of character if we're doing a last second snipe to win the game, but otherwise I don't drop the mask of being my usual self. The mask is pretty powerful. I couldn't on the last day, while thinking there was still a chance to lose, drop the mask and just declare that Colby not finding me suspect was cool without questioning it. If it gets questioned, it's always superior that I am the one raising the question, rather than being late to that party. It implies I'm not being vigilant. I really didn't want to question it because it connects us strongly, but I also couldn't not question it. I lasted like half an hour, and as soon as I commented on something someone else said, it wouldn't fly that Colby said that and I'd say nothing. If I did say nothing, that would have been dropping my mask, and it would have made it more clearly the two of us being guilty. Now, its possible others wouldn't pick up on it. But I wouldn't risk it. I'd rather keep my mask on, even if the move is suboptimal, because you never know when you need to appear credible. As long as any mechanically clear townie is alive, at least one scumbag needs to try to appear credible, otherwise it quickly becomes a stomp. Someone must always keep their mask on. Colby could afford not to, he was vengeful. I couldn't, as far as I knew. I needed to not be the obvious pick in a final 3, afaik.

True fact, I had no idea Colby was vengeful until day five was mostly over.

He never told me when I joined in and I assumed the role cop was the only role we had, for balance.

So, when I thought Colby visibly scumslipped, at the time, I thought it was a problem rather than a solution. Heh.

I also assumed that you read the scum thread….

But yes, that slip was intentional. In case I went down, I could take someone out with me

Nope! I didnt read everything that happened before I arrived. I was err... focused, on doing all the reading i'd need to do to feasibly pretend to be Askthepizzaguy. Which is a lot of reading.

I could have read scum chat too, but I was of the opinion that town wouldn't give me as much villagery credit if I had analyzed that bit.

"Right lads and ladies and various furry friends, it actually turns out that the mafia did in fact shoot Guiri on night three. Guess how I-iiiiiiiii knowwwww~~~~"

It's not that different from what I did say in the thread. Maybe I could have pulled it off. :m:

Good thoughts, hugs and all that Colby with the kiddo

This got out of hand quickly. I wanted to comment onto Pizza here, and drop more hints about what I will be doing for the next game (at least) .... and I think it got away from me.

But, I do think I did need some closure, per se, from "" Meeko "" here.

Mendie is not looking forward to doing actual work for Mafia.

No, you don't get to be confused here. I'm the one that has to juggle which account says what.

---

That said, I'm really eager, over-eager to attempt all the parts put together here, once the next game starts. I'm not sure if "Less sure than I was when I started" means anything in the realm of someone who starts at, and remains in, questioning, but, well, I feel I need to at least attempt one game as Mendie 2.0 If anything else, it will probably, hopefully be what Hotel of Heroes, or what ever, was supposed to be, if I could sock.

Don't want to gush too much, and I very much want to follow Kaiveran's lead in not go back into all that was and has been hashed out.

I just know, that at the end of this, and the start of the next game, ... that there is just enough for me to want to, to need to, "explore" how far I can go with this. It's weird, to argue that it's forced, ... and then realize, that, you can't force what doesn't exist into happening.

"Mendie" will say as much in the next game, but ""we"" are really looking to do different things next game. So much of Mendie, ultimately, is a collaboration, of a lot of things that I wish I could be. Perhaps, not so much on the going vegan and the learning Japanese..... Trying to tamper down my aspirations here. I'm not getting any younger, but the ADHD still wants all the wild hairs up asses to fruition. .... Or something.

Yeah, I picked the right account for this one. :rebo:

---

I am going to go for it, you know? Different, but a different kind of Meeko. And I need to see what and where that gets me. gonna try all the things.

:astonished:

It just might work.

I guess, in a certain sense, I am just saying Thank You, to all of you that "know" me either, then, now, or as I ultimately will become. I need to see all, or at least some, of this "out" of me.


As always, as hard as it may be to believe, I could say more, and I probably should have said less. I must be ok with leaving all of that, as it is.

I feel safe here. Win, Lose, or Draw, with what I feel I need to do in the next game. It will be different, hopefully, I find myself in there. And again, I reserve the right to 86 all of it. But for now, yes. We go here.

I actually posted [In general] to my Facebook, how the world right now seems to be lacking in optimism, and that, the world has lost a lot, because of it. Economy at current, notwithstanding, I actually found my self using, if butchered, JFK's "We choose to go to the moon" line, along with " .... and do the other things"

In closing, at least from Meeko's perspective here, I choose to go to the moon.


I intend to come back an Astronaut, but, hope you will welcome me back, if I return a space cadet.

If there is a pressing need, or, for whatever reason I need to respond as "Meeko" (Despite it still being me.) This account is open to respond, as need be. I don't know, you are making it weird. Stop making it weird.

Looks like I underestimated the grade on the learning curve here.

I don't see an outright need to give headings to responses, especially if they are trivial, or don't branch into organic growth pertinent to forwarding the game. This is a shared belief? I'm not saying that any of you will probably cling to the use of headings for responses at all, let alone regular posts that have no pretext. Not that the post mortem of a game that I Was not even in, holds merit to this, one way or the other.

Meeko would have a heyday with this next bit. I'm not giving him the opportunity. Please, don't encourage him.

For want of words, I know that I lack discipline. Does that need to be said? This will be an ongoing thing for me, here, a general feeling that I am stating things that don't need to be said. Hopefully that gets worked out, but until then, my god, if I am going to discipline myself, I'm going to need to cling to anything, and everything.

Meeko I want you to know I am having some difficulty following what you're talking about, but I think I have a general idea.

This is from me to you, and if it provokes a debate topic I would ask someone to make a thread in debate and tag me there so I dont continue it here in a postgame of a mafia game.

You are wanting to move to a different account more full time, and on that account wish to be addressed with Mendie and with certain pronouns, and may play the game differently. If I have all that right, these are my thoughts and reactions. I grew up with a sibling who is now a webcomic artist in the trans community, and while it's taken some getting used to, I understand addressing a person respectfully with the pronouns they prefer and the name they choose. This is something cis straight people expect as well, famous comedian Jon Stewart changed his name because he didn't want to have the same last name as his father or stepfather (I can't remember) who was kind of a jerk. If he wishes to be called Jon Stewart then that's his name. If my sister is a she, that's her gender. I'm all cool with all of that. It's all part of addressing a person respectfully. I prefer to be called Askthepizzaguy when I am online, or Pizza, even though my real name is Daniel. If I prefer to be called Pizza, it's respectful to address me as such online with my online handle. I wouldn't treat anyone else differently than myself in that regard. It's the same rights and expectations the rest of us have, and you're no different. I will say, I forget which comedian nailed it, I think it was Louis C.K. (and I'm aware of his scandals, they're not relevant to this), that the intent behind the language is what matters. Sometimes someone can have absolutely no hate in their heart and not grasp the concepts, and old habits are hard to break. I still catch myself using the wrong pronouns sometimes with friends in mafia land and my own sibling, because I spent the first I don't know, 35 years of my life with the impression she was a he. If I slip up and use the wrong pronoun, by mistake and without hate in my heart, I think that has to be okay. Back before pronouns were even commonly displayed on forums, I defaulted to "they" a lot because most of the folks online I spoke to were male, but many were female, and got treated differently if they said so, and didn't want to identify, and then more and more folks came out as female or none of the above or changed pronouns while I knew them. Here I am learning Norwegian, and that language gives genders to inanimate objects like tables and chairs and puts gendered suffixes on those nouns, and it makes zero sense. But it would be like pulling teeth to get the entire language to suddenly change overnight to exclude needless genders from object nouns. Similarly, in English, it's difficult to eliminate gender from pronouns. And it wouldn't be a perfect solution since it's hard to tell who is referring to whom, when not using names already, if everyone being referred to are the same gender. But it would be simpler than the additive approach of putting more gendered pronouns into the language. It runs into the problem of I have absolutely no idea which gendered suffix I am supposed to use for a bed here in Norwegian, and even if I know where someone is on the gender spectrum, there's no consensus or authoritative source which non-binary pronoun to use. You have to ask each person and remember, and it's very not intuitive. When someone makes a mistake regarding new pronouns they're very unfamiliar with using, it needs to be okay. And if someone's spent 60 years of their life only being familiar with certain pronouns it really is hard to change. And that's still okay, it's not hate. I saw a chart that had xir on it, and I can't remember all the conjugation for it, and I consider myself an ally. I wrote rules and had long arguments defending the rights of people with new pronouns, and had to insist certain behavior absolutely was bullying. If someone like me can forget, it's probably going to happen a lot. As long as you can be okay with other people making a genuine mistake, or defaulting to "they" then they're not sure (it's a really useful tool!) I think everyone should be okay with that. I'm saying that as a regular user here and not in any kind of official capacity because I barely have editing powers here. I don't do that sort of thing. It's just my thoughts on pronoun troubles. Something as simple as a verbal stumble shouldn't be a situation where there is a bad guy, and it shouldn't disrupt communities or friendships. It's dumb that the language forces (gendered) pronouns into language where it shouldn't be, but there's no quick fix. What I wouldn't give for all object nouns in norwegian to be genderless just so I don't need to remember. But people are not objects and since men and women get gendered pronouns, everyone does. And that is also fair. I see that argument and I endorse it. Even though, man, all this would go away if gender was just not part of language at all unless directly indicated by the subject of a sentence was gender itself, or if you asked someone's gender. That's simpler, but it's just never gonna happen so we're stuck with this silly problem and the imperfect solution of accepting more words rather than fewer of them. That's almost as logical, and it is respectful. So it's what we got. Bah language. Words are an imperfect medium for our thoughts and feelings. Text all by itself doesn't convey everything I wish it did, and sometimes it can imply things that I didn't imply. Behind the words are our intentions, thoughts and feelings. If they're pure, but the language is imperfect, that's every day of my life. I end up using more words than necessary because I really want to be precise with what I am saying, to leave little room for misinterpretation. But even then, it takes a lot longer and wears people down. Hopefully if people get through the slog of it they can at least realize what I am trying to say and leaving little room for accidental interpretations.

Those are all my thoughts on it. Hopefully that's enough, and also, not too much at the same time. I can never quite tell. That's classic Pizzaguy, a problem that never stops haunting me.

Also I will say quickly that I enjoyed the experience here but I am still very much retired and not available to play the next game or... really be part of the mafia community. For the past four games now I kept trying to make a game setup and host, but I didn't have the time or energy for that. So I didn't even bother putting my name into the lottery for hosting.

I was here, briefly. But I am gone again. Little kids do that, work does it too. Hugs to all in case I don't see ya.

I read all of this in it's entirety. In response ::

I'm back up here after writing the spoiler in full. If anyone else wants to read it, feel free.

I can't rightly say that I have Always felt different, or that I "knew" before I was 5 that I was in the wrong body. There are many stories here of trans people who knew, then, in various forms and ways. I am not trying to take away from that, in the least. Instead, There have been just enough little things "off" with me. Finally, enough of those things, finally got to a point, where I feel that need to fish or cut bait with it. This, to be exceedingly frank, follows after being so completely ignorant about Bondage, and BDSM at at large, that I did not know it even had terms, until I had to be asked point blank, if I was into it. This, to be exceedingly frank, follows after being so completely ignorant about Furry, and Furries at large, that I did not know it even had a term, until, you guessed it, I had to be asked, point blank, if I was one. This, to be exceedingly frank, follows after not wanting to encounter such an awkward situation a third time. This, lead to proactive research into, what I thought at the time, was Orientation. Not that, at that time, I thought that I've never not been straight / hetero, yet there was still, as above .... enough " off " , even if it wasn't strictly speaking Homosexuality. The drive for answers were there, long before I could reason out that I was questioning something, beyond Hetero V Homo . I would later find my answer to this, in be being Demisexual. Upon reading what a Demisexual was, I Was equal parts relieved that it has a term, and horrified, that while I am member to that classification, .... it is actually not the default. That, there are other Orientations out there, and I'm actually in one of those assorted "other" groups, beyond the two most well known. That, apparently, I have a different set of requirements, after all, when it comes to looking at someone in the context of being a potential romantic partner. And, if " Demisexual " as an orientation can (and did) hit what I am DEAD ON, that there has to be, must be the "Same Difference" word / term / classification in the realm of Gender. I am still looking for the silver bullet gender. Per se. I Am looking to see what gender I actually am, and again, I know it's going to be beyond the two most well known genders. I do not, do not want to be asked for a third time, point blank, if I am ______ without knowing about it first. I have collected all of the assorted, and sordid, "extra pieces" as I have called them, into a "box" that would become known as Mendie. She holds a lot for me. There are reasons why I asked for, and comissioned her to be drawn as she is. Cuffs, padlocks, and all. I try to drop major hints, but at the same time, be somewhat reserved. This perhaps, gives insight into Mendie's last post on Discipline, more than I wanted to let out. It frankly is surprisingly me how fast that, My role and reasons to have Mendie play in the next game are already changing. I mean, right there in the by line, it still says that she is a submissive. Which seems to already run counter to how she is treating Meeko. But, ultimately, I sense that I do need that. I need all of it. As this group remains the group I am the most "out" to, I Feel that I can explore that enough here, especially in the next game, if not from here on out. I need to take that opportunity.

@Askthepizzaguy
For what it's worth, I think your posts are pretty breezy reads even when you're not paring it down. It's kind of a shame that the general meta-landscape has shifted to a rather uncritical "long posts bad" sort of deal, because if people are actually willing to give your stuff a chance, it's very effective at communicating what it sets out to.

But then again, I am far from the average Mafia enjoyer...

I've been meaning to say this, Kai

Holy shit did you come on strong, I knew nigh immediately that you have clearly played in more games (and therefore, have more experience) than I ever could have hope to have had. Like, intimidatingly so.

As an aside, years and years back, jobs back ago, I was a cashier at a supermarket in Buckhead Atlanta. I had the pleasure of checking out and transacting with (as well as small talk) a few famous people.

Dikembe Mutombo.

He was in my line at least twice. And as a 6'3 300, closer to 350 (At that time) pound guy, just having him on the other side of my register ..... nearly made me ... :ohdear:


Thankfully, you weren't that intimidating, but, well, you there you go.