Felt vs. MC: Mafia Day 4 Thread

[Trepa Mayfield]

The background music started right on cue this morning--slow, cold and supernatural. But the body dragged out to the middle of the foyer (so kindly!) was the last person anyone expected dead. GASP!

Romanic, who was Doc Scratch (Scum Riddler

No, wait, that's the crazy role in my next game. Hang on. :shuffles notes:

Romanic, who was Clubs Deuce (Town Mason/Miller), is dead.

Day 4 ends at 9:30 PM MDT on Sunday, March 13th. Happy hunting!

[Romanic]

*woohoo* Go Town!!!

[SisterCoyote]

Well, that's...unexpected.

[Giraffe]

Holy crap! Why is always the scummiest ones who turn up Town?? I'm completely shocked. I guess that's what happens when two Town players each think the other one is scum -- they get all aggressive in their questioning, which pings the radar of the other.

Anyway, as I said last Night, I fully expect to be lynched toDay. I am Town, but at this point I can't objectively expect any non-retarded Town player to believe that. So vote away, I won't argue.

(Although Romola, seriously, why wouldn't you tell me why you wanted to know who I was vote-blocking last Night? It won't affect anything from my end, I'm simply curious at this point.)

[SisterCoyote]

NETA: Who died, not the reveal.

[Romola]

Damn. Well that confirms Idle anyway - which seems a bit of a daft thing for scum to do. I suspect that Romanic may not have been killed by scum but by a vig. At work now, back to post this evening.

[Idle Thoughts]

Vote Giraffe from ToDay.

[BobArrgh]

@Romola: I'm curious as to why you think Romanic's death was the work of a Vig rather than Scum. As much as I'd like to think it was a Vig, that would imply that we have both a Vig and a Roleblocker.

As far as I know, the only Roleblocker we had was Special Ed, who was the Town Freezer (mass roleblocker), but he died during Night 1. I would think that if we had a Vig, we would have had more deaths during the nights.

I think the Scum screwed up by killing Romanic. He was acting pretty scummy, so keeping him alive would have helped to spread the WIFOM. Plus, as you've pointed out, Idle is now confirmed as Town.

[BobArrgh]

NETA: I'm not sure how Vigs choose their targets. In some of the games I've read, there is usually a discussion about how the Vigs would take care of the non-participants. So, if we had a Vig, would he or she have gone for a non-participant such as Lucifer?

[SisterCoyote]

Vigs can take care of non-participants. However, they should also do whatever they think best. Vigs choose their targets based on same the WiFoM that the rest of us are.

Although I'm usually an advocate for Scum would Totally Do That, it doesn't make any sense for Scum to have killed Romanic.

Unless.

Unless they were trying to clinch the Giraffe Lynch, since Giraffe and Romanic have been at each other's throats for Days now.

[Idle Thoughts]

In case some of you are not remembering right:
Giraffe saved (scum) zuma from a lynch and, instead, voted to lynch a claimed Doc.
He has consistently tried to draw suspicion on both Romanic and myself almost from the beginning.

Giraffe is, by far, the best lynch for toDay.

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

Unless they were trying to clinch the Giraffe Lynch, since Giraffe and Romanic have been at each other's throats for Days now.

I don't know if that makes sense either, though. Even without a confirmed Town Romanic, I was already the absolute #1 lynch candidate for toDay. Had they killed someone else last Night, they could have easily gotten a second mislynch once I turned up Town and Romanic had to explain why he was after me so intently. Why waste a kill like that?

My suspicion is that there is a small enough pool of active Town players that scum may be just trying to blitz for a win at this point. There are eight total players left:

1. Sister Coyote
2. moody mitchy
3. Total Ulla
4. Romola
5. BobArrgh
6. Idle Thoughts
7. Giraffe
8. Lucifer

Assuming 4 scum to start, that leaves us at 5 to 3. Given that some players have had less time to participate than others, if they're Town then scum just has to knock off a couple more actives and they've won.

Maybe, if we're lucky, peeker counted as a scum and there are only two scum left. That will still give Town to recover after lynching me and losing another member toNight.

What's really tragic is that with the time travel thing, I could still help Town if I could correctly guess a scum player -- I could send my vote forward which could help resolve a tie between scum and Town in Town's favor. But, I'm batting exactly 0% so far and really don't want to help scum even more from beyond the grave. So I'm voting for the scummiest player in the game as it stands right now:

[moody mitchy]

I'm not convinced that Giraffe is the best lynch candidate for toDay...

I was very surprised to see Romanic turn up dead. I'd spent the majority of the Night (and I'm glad I didn't post my thoughts) convincing myself that we were being double bluffed by Romanic and Idle Thoughts.

I'd come to the conclusion that they were both SCUM and that they'd taken a risk that there were no masonary in this game. Idle Thoughts was SCUM godfather.... and Romanic claimed miller/mason saying that they'd show SCUM if investigated... So, as I've said a couple of times... If I'd have been a Cop I'd have looked at Idle Thoughts, with him being godfather he would have shown TOWN.

Of course with Romanics demise that blows that theory of mine out of the water.

I was curious about Giraffes comment in the Night thread (yes I do read it , just choose not to participate) that if we apparently mis lynch him toDay and with 2 kills at Night then we would be pretty close to lylo.... I wondered how he was so sure that there would be 2 kills...

If we look at the deaths that have happened at Night so far we have...

Night 1 3 deaths. Possible SK/Vig would count for one... Peekercpa if he'd chosen the Vig role might account for another and then the obligatory SCUM NK.

Night 2 only one death BillMc allignment and role as yet unknown. I feel he was killed to cast suspicion on Giraffe after his comment in the Night thread.

Day 3 we lynch Zuma he's SCUM and he hasn't been active his role SCUM double killer.... Could he have accounted for 2 deaths Night 1 ? And a Vig /SK accounted for the other one...

He wasn't very active Day 2 for whatever reason... could he have failed to put an action in for Night 2 ? This might explain why only one death .

And he was lynched Day 3 so he couldn't have placed an action for Night 3.. again could be a reason why only one death...

We still have Lucifer who hasn't been replaced yet? Is it possible that he has a Night Kill action and the mod has used Random.org to pick a victim?

I know they are a lot of questions but it seems worth discussing.

I don't think Giraffe is SCUM. My reasoning for this is that if he were.... saving a SCUM buddy so late in the day as he did ... means that you come under a lot of fire for it from then on.... I also think that Romanics death is purely to cast suspicion on him ...

I'm suspicious of Total Ulla Sister Coyote and Romola. All 3 of you to my mind have made what may just be small slips that I've pulled you on... I think I need to have another look at what else you might have said.

[Giraffe]

Moody, just to clarify, when I said two night kills, I was referring to the two Nights before Town could act again if we assumed toDay would be spent lynching me. So I assumed only one kill per Night, ie the usual default.

[Trepa Mayfield]

Attention:

As is clear by a lack of announcement, I have not been able to find a substitute player for Lucifer. Since he is not coming back, and since I can't find a sub, he has informally left the game, and it seems only logical to make it formal--IOW, modkill him. And I'd just do it, too, except that Rule No. 7:

7. Please participate. If you drop out, I will try to find a sub for you, provided it isn't late in the game. There are, however, no direct punishments for not playing.

could be interpreted as "No modkills for no participation". So! If anyone has any strong objections to me modkilling Lucifer, please say so (either via PM or in the thread); otherwise, it's happening at the end of toDay.

[Trepa Mayfield]

With 4 Days, 4 hours and 33 minutes until the end of Day 4:

Vote Count:

Giraffe (3): Idle Thoughts [Day 4 Post 7], Giraffe [Day 4 Post 12], Giraffe [Day 5]

Not Voting: Sis Coyote, moody mitchy, Total Ulla, Romola, BobArrgh, Lucifer

Voting from the Future: Giraffe [Day 5]

[BobArrgh]

Giraffe, you seem so eager to be lynched (including voting for yourself twice on the same day) that I'm starting to wonder if you have some sort of power or wincon that requires you to have a certain number of voters at the end of the day. Something like "Number Of Other Players minus 1".

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by BobArrgh

Giraffe, you seem so eager to be lynched (including voting for yourself twice on the same day) that I'm starting to wonder if you have some sort of power or wincon that requires you to have a certain number of voters at the end of the day. Something like "Number Of Other Players minus 1".

Oh, for fuck's sake.

I'm not eager to be lynched, but I wanted to remove any ambiguity that my recommendations for my lynch were some sort of reverse psychology scum ploy to save myself. I'm Town, but I can't argue with a straight face that Town shouldn't lynch me given the sequence of events, so I'm walking up to the gallows to stick my head through the noose. Once I'm dead, hopefully Town can still salvage a victory (my secret hope is that Lucifer was scum).

As for your theory, remember that we were told that there are no players in this game with wincons other than Town or scum.

[BobArrgh]

Originally Posted by Giraffe

As for your theory, remember that we were told that there are no players in this game with wincons other than Town or scum.

And peeker had both a Town and Scum role, which presumably means he had both wincons at the same time, depending on which path he chose.

If a person has both a Town and Scum wincon, then logically that player would fall into the set of people who have either a Town or Scum wincon. It would almost be like a superposition of wincons, as defined by Heisenberg, Schroedinger, Feynmann, et. al. (If they got around to defining wincons whenever they were mucking about with quantum physics.)

[Total Ulla]

I admit I'm not putting in the effort this game deserves ATM.

However I can't see a way for us to allow Giraffe to survive to Endgame. He's votes were scummy and I fear - even if (and I doubt it very much) he flips Town - he'll be a distraction for the rest of the game until he's killed/lynched.

Vote Giraffe

[OoG]
I know I should say "sorry" for not being around more - but I was just offered work for the next 4 weeks and I'm super ecstatic even if it will influence the time I spend on this game.
[/OoG]

[Romola]

I'm at work but couldn't leave this thought unposted. I don't have time to go back and check, but am i right in thinking that Giraffe claimed to have used his power on Romanic yesterDay? And Romanic died at the end of Last Night? I think Giraffe's power is not simply a vote block, I think it's a delayed killing power. Which also means that whoever's vote has been blocked toDay will die at the end of toNight.




PS - if we find that nobody's vote is blocked, I reckon the vote blocking and killing power was actually welded by Zuma and Giraffe has been covering for him. It explains why Giraffe so steadfastly refused to tell who he had used his power on toDay.

[Romola]

Can we have a vote count? I'm really keen to know if my vote counts.

[Trepa Mayfield]

With 3 Days, 14 hours and 22 minutes until the end of Day 4:

Vote Count:

Giraffe (5): Idle Thoughts [Day 4 Post 7], Giraffe [Day 4 Post 12], Giraffe [Day 5], Total Ulla [Day 4 Post 20], Romola [Day 4 Post 21]

Not Voting: Sis Coyote, moody mitchy, BobArrgh, Lucifer

Voting from the Future: Giraffe [Day 5]

[BobArrgh]

Shoot ... I missed the vote test count.



I don't want to vote for Giraffe right now because I want to think about it a little bit more. But I definitely want to get a vote in place to make sure it counts. Hopefully, our moderator will publish another vote tally when Sis and Moody (or even Lucifer) put down votes.

[oog]
@Ulla: I am so happy to hear that about you. Well, not happy that you won't be spending time with us, but happy to hear about your employment. However, I must tell you that no matter how important making money is, you must be certain to tell your boss that you need several hours a day for playing and modding Mafia. After all, you must have your priorities in the right order.
[/oog]

[SisterCoyote]

I'm putting this down so we can check the vote counts, and because at this point in the game we can probably figure on needing to lynch the non-participant at some point.

I'm not sold on the Giraffe argument, I'm sorry. I'm just not.

[Trepa Mayfield]

With 3 Days, 11 hours and 6 minutes until the end of Day 4:

Vote Count:

Giraffe (5): Idle Thoughts [Day 4 Post 7], Giraffe [Day 4 Post 12], Giraffe [Day 5], Total Ulla [Day 4 Post 20], Romola [Day 4 Post 21]
Lucifer (2): BobArrgh [Day 4 Post 24], Sis Coyote [Day 4 Post 25]

Not Voting: moody mitchy, Lucifer

Voting from the Future: Giraffe [Day 5]

[moody mitchy]

Vote Lucifer

I'd sooner get rid of a non participant rather than see someone who I still feel is TOWN get lynched.

I know what it's like to convince yourself that you are right when, you don't have any other information to go on but a gut feeling. I still also feel that it was too obvious a thing to do in trying to save a SCUM buddy...

I must say though that I am curious as to why Giraffe hasn't informed us toDay of who they have vote blocked... If by some miracle he's chosen not to use it then I'll be moving my vote. Also yesterDay , Romanic recieved a PM saying he couldn't vote. I think all of us have commented toDay but none of us have mentioned getting anything.

On preview... sorry Hypnagogic Bonafide... 5 minutes earlier and I could have saved you a post..

And Ullz... great news about the job..

[Trepa Mayfield]

With 3 Days, 10 hours and 59 minutes until the end of Day 4:

Vote Count:

Giraffe (5): Idle Thoughts [Day 4 Post 7], Giraffe [Day 4 Post 12], Giraffe [Day 5], Total Ulla [Day 4 Post 20], Romola [Day 4 Post 21]
Lucifer (3): BobArrgh [Day 4 Post 24], Sis Coyote [Day 4 Post 25], moody mitchy [Day 4 Post 27]

Not Voting: Lucifer

Voting from the Future: Giraffe [Day 5]

[BobArrgh]

@Moody: Thanks for reminding us about the PM. I checked, and I don't have one. Also, it appears that everyone's vote is counting.

Either Giraffe didn't use his power, or he used it on Lucifer, or he was blocked, or his power was a one-shot deal.

Somebody else want to add to my list of "ors"?

[Romola]

Originally Posted by BobArrgh

@Moody: Thanks for reminding us about the PM. I checked, and I don't have one. Also, it appears that everyone's vote is counting.

Either Giraffe didn't use his power, or he used it on Lucifer, or he was blocked, or his power was a one-shot deal.

Somebody else want to add to my list of "ors"?

Or the vote block came not from giraffe, but from Zuma and was a delayed action thing?

[moody mitchy]

If Giraffe is TOWN.... and claims he was role blocked... why would SCUM roleblock a TOWN vote blocker?... We've already seen a TOWN player having had their vote blocked so know that the power is in the game..

I can't see Giraffe lying about the claim either... things just don't add up but then again they aren't suppossed too....

People have asked what good this is as a TOWN power... well in a game when players can vote in the future or pull a vote from the future.. it does give TOWN the possibility of blocking 2 votes from SCUM.

I don't get his double vote for himself either... it's too late in the game in my opinion to "take one for TOWN "... but SCUM don't normally offer themselves up as a sacrificial lamb either.

[Romola]

It could just the best way for him to get lynched while giving away no information. It's notable that Giraffe hasn't claimed that he was roleblocked. In fact, he hasn't given any information whatsoever about the use of his power last night.

Only an idiot would have used a voteblocking power on Lucifer, given the state of the game. Either Giraffe didn't use his power, or he neer had the power he claims to have in the first place.

I have played 2 games with a vote blocking role. In each game, the voteblock went alongside a protective role - the protected player lost their vote the next Day. I'm thinking the power that blocked Romanic's vote also resulted in Romanic's death - poisoner or something? And is possibly the opposite to the voteblocking protectors that I am thinking of. And could have either been a one shot power or it's owner is now dead.

[Romola]

Originally Posted by Giraffe

Oh, for fuck's sake.

I'm not eager to be lynched, but I wanted to remove any ambiguity that my recommendations for my lynch were some sort of reverse psychology scum ploy to save myself. I'm Town, but I can't argue with a straight face that Town shouldn't lynch me given the sequence of events, so I'm walking up to the gallows to stick my head through the noose. Once I'm dead, hopefully Town can still salvage a victory (my secret hope is that Lucifer was scum).

As for your theory, remember that we were told that there are no players in this game with wincons other than Town or scum.

Did you attempt to use your power last night? If so, who was your target?

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by Romola

I'm at work but couldn't leave this thought unposted. I don't have time to go back and check, but am i right in thinking that Giraffe claimed to have used his power on Romanic yesterDay? And Romanic died at the end of Last Night? I think Giraffe's power is not simply a vote block, I think it's a delayed killing power. Which also means that whoever's vote has been blocked toDay will die at the end of toNight.

Vote Giraffe

PS - if we find that nobody's vote is blocked, I reckon the vote blocking and killing power was actually welded by Zuma and Giraffe has been covering for him. It explains why Giraffe so steadfastly refused to tell who he had used his power on toDay.

I steadfastly refused for the reasons I gave. I was fairly confident that Romanic was scum, and somewhat suspicious of you. The two of you suddenly seemed very urgent about needing to know who I was blocking, which seemed odd to me, for the reasons I outlined: Town has an obvious lynch target toDay, Town has very good reason to believe I'm scum (so the information won't help any Town Night powers, IMO), Scum knows I'm not scum, so the information does help any Scum powers that are affected by voting (if any).

And you still won't frickin' tell me why you wanted so badly to know before Night ended. Why. NOT?

Originally Posted by moody mitchy

If Giraffe is TOWN.... and claims he was role blocked... why would SCUM roleblock a TOWN vote blocker?... We've already seen a TOWN player having had their vote blocked so know that the power is in the game..

I wasn't role blocked (that I know of) -- I used my vote blocking on Romanic again last Night. I was coy about it, because he seemed to really not want me to, which made me wonder if he had some sort of scum power that correlated with his vote. Not highly likely, but then again I see no reason to help players I think are scum.

Originally Posted by moody mitchy

I don't get his double vote for himself either... it's too late in the game in my opinion to "take one for TOWN "... but SCUM don't normally offer themselves up as a sacrificial lamb either.

If Town decides not to lynch me, I'll of course remove the votes before the end of Day. But I don't want there to be any mistake about my opinion: without proof of my alignment (which only I have, as far as I know), I think I'm far and away the best lynch candidate for Town toDay. My voting record has simply been way too scum friendly. (Because I suck at this game.)

Why the double vote? Answer: why not? I may as well use up all my votes before I die, right? Plus, I think it's nice and unambiguous: I'm not going to argue against my lynch. I'll be happy if I don't get lynched, of course, but I'm not sure what use I am to Town anyway at this point with both a huge cloud of suspicion over me and the worst scum-finding abilities of anybody ever.

[Giraffe]

Huh, I wrote that last post before I looked at the vote count. I hadn't expected so many people to vote for Lucifer over me -- my two votes are the only thing putting me ahead right now.

Given that Lucifer is going to be modkilled, it's actually better for Town to lynch him instead of me (this is only true if you know I'm Town, which only I know) because I can either soak up a scum kill toNight or I can get lynched toMorrow which at least removes the risk of mislynching another Town player.

So, I'm going to vote for him. I recognize that this now looks super scummy, so I'll understand if everyone changes their vote from him to me, but I have to do what's best for Town even if it makes me look bad.

[Romola]

[QUOTE=Giraffe;558546]

Originally Posted by Romola

I wasn't role blocked (that I know of) -- I used my vote blocking on Romanic again last Night. I was coy about it, because he seemed to really not want me to, which made me wonder if he had some sort of scum power that correlated with his vote.
.

Convenient.

You mentioned last Night that you could see advantages to scum in posting who your target was for toDay. What were they?

Are you sure that 'I am scum' T-shirt is enough, G? Do you not want a pair of scummy deelyboppers as well?

[Romola]

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by Romola

Convenient.

You mentioned last Night that you could see advantages to scum in posting who your target was for toDay. What were they?

Are you sure that 'I am scum' T-shirt is enough, G? Do you not want a pair of scummy deelyboppers as well?

Yes, yes, I know. Town has every reason to think I'm scum. Scum has every reason to point out my scumminess, to get me lynched instead of Lucifer. One bonus, however, is that once I'm dead, the voting record may give Town some additional clues as to scum.

My reasons last Night were what I said: if there existed a scum Night power that correlated with voting, then knowing who could and couldn't vote the next Day would be useful. I only had the idea after Romanic seemed to really not want me to vote block him.

Now, for the five hundredth time: can you please give me a reason why you wanted to know my target before Night ended?

[Romola]

To find out who was going to die at the end of the next Night and explain why they should claim.

[Romola]

Your reasons for not spilling are crap, by the way. But you knew that.

[Romola]

Also your sudden turn from 'Oh, oh, kill me, town, tis better that i serve by my Death, let me insert 2 daggers of mine own to prove my sincerity' to 'Aha, they might string up Luci instead, forget all that other bollocks' is not doing you any favours.

[Romola]

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

I'm putting this down so we can check the vote counts, and because at this point in the game we can probably figure on needing to lynch the non-participant at some point.

I'm not sold on the Giraffe argument, I'm sorry. I'm just not.

Are you kidding?

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by Romola

To find out who was going to die at the end of the next Night and explain why they should claim.

Really? But if I'm scum with the power you describe, then I know Romanic is going to die from it last Night, which means I would have been eager to share that I was vote-blocking him again. Or, far more likely, chosen another target to get a second kill in before I died. Since everyone can vote, obviously I didn't do that. Do you really think if I was scum, I'd forego a kill at this point? Especially when I had no reason to think I wouldn't be lynched toDay (since the announcement about Lucifer hadn't yet happened)?

None of what you're saying makes a lot of sense if I'm scum. So I'm not really seeing a justification for why a Town player would have so urgently wanted to know who I was targeting before Night ended.

Town doesn't learn anything new -- if I say I targeted you and you can vote toDay, then I lied about my power and get lynched. But if I say I targeted you and you can vote, so what? It doesn't prove my alignment. It doesn't give Town a reason not to lynch me.

If you're scum, maybe you wanted to know so you could play this exact game toDay by killing my target and then accusing me of killing them with my power or hiding my power or whatever. But that seems kind of weak as well -- I can't imagine you wouldn't have already been confident in my lynching.

So I don't know what your deal is about my vote blocking power, but I've decided I don't care enough to pursue it. Thank you for answering my question, sort of.

[Romola]

I actually think you're lying about having a nightly vote blocking power at all. If you had it at all, it was a one off. I think it's more likely that Zuma had a power that caused a vote block and delayed kill and that the 2nd motivation for your Town Protector killing day 2 vote was to protect Zuma.

[Giraffe]

Fair enough. If I survive toDay, I'll tell you my vote blocking target right off the bat toNight. None of my scum-helping theories are likely enough to be worth worrying about, and on the off chance that you're Town, no reason not to set your mind at ease regarding my claim (which of course doesn't prove my alignment).

[SisterCoyote]

Originally Posted by Romola

Are you kidding?

No, I'm not kidding.

I can see the reasons for it, but I'm not sold.

Yet.

I want to go back over the last few Days again and see if I come to more of an agreement. But I won't have time to do that until tomorrow (not toMorrow).

[BobArrgh]

Originally Posted by Romola

Also your sudden turn from 'Oh, oh, kill me, town, tis better that i serve by my Death, let me insert 2 daggers of mine own to prove my sincerity' to 'Aha, they might string up Luci instead, forget all that other bollocks' is not doing you any favours.

@Romola: You owe me a new keyboard and monitor. I made the mistake of taking a huge drink as I was catching up on the Day. I got to this post and snorted. I love the contrast between the Shakespearean statement and the one with modern slang.

[moody mitchy]

@Romola.

Zuma is already dead and been revealed SCUM Double killer so, I can't see him having any effect on vote blocking as a singular entity. That's not to say that the vote blocking isn't a SCUM action though.

I still feel it would have all been too obvious for Giraffe to have done these things as SCUM though and his actions have played right into their hands and are leading us to another mis lynch...

[Idle Thoughts]

Vote Giraffe from Day 6

[Idle Thoughts]

If and when (and I'm betting when) Giraffe comes up scum, I'm going to have a bone to pick with a few people who, I feel, are trying to stick up for him toDay.
Barring I'm still alive, of course.