Random thoughts about gaydar in the old days

[AuntiePam]

I'm reading The Absolutist by John Boyne. It's 1916, we're in an army barracks in England. A gay character immediately recognizes that another character is gay, even though the 19 other men in his troop don't have a clue.

I assume that this might be because in 1916, homosexuality was considered to be a perversion, and most people will assume they don't know any perverts. Is this a reasonable assumption?

Another random thought is that (from my reading of this and other books set in that general time period) it was natural for gay men and women to spend a lot of time together -- even live together -- without anyone assuming they were gay. This was in a time when homosexuality was persecuted, at least socially if not criminally.

It's interesting to me that apparently, in the old days, nobody paid much attention to sexual orientation. (Unless you were gay and needed to hide that fact, of course.)

And yet another random thought is that in a time when men and women were more touchy-feely (per books I've read set in that time period), it had to be difficult for a gay man or woman to know whether that kiss on the lips was sexual or just friendly.

[Solfy]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

I assume that this might be because in 1916, homosexuality was considered to be a perversion, and most people will assume they don't know any perverts. Is this a reasonable assumption?

Another random thought is that (from my reading of this and other books set in that general time period) it was natural for gay men and women to spend a lot of time together -- even live together -- without anyone assuming they were gay. This was in a time when homosexuality was persecuted, at least socially if not criminally.

It's interesting to me that apparently, in the old days, nobody paid much attention to sexual orientation. (Unless you were gay and needed to hide that fact, of course.)

I think it really depends on where/when/who you're talking about. I do agree that when more people were firmly closeted due to sociological constraints, more people were able/willing to assume they didn't know anyone "like that." As long as Bob down the street keeps up his sham marriage, you can ignore the rumors you've heard about what Bob was supposedly doing with Ted when they were off on that business trip.

As for the living arrangements, it seems to me more a case of open homosexuality being persectued but closet cases being accepted. There were plenty of wink wink nudge nudge situations where most people knew deep down that the two ladies in apartment 3B didn't just live together their whole lives to save on rent, but as long as they weren't seen acting affectionate in public, everyone could go along with the charade. See also "Boston Marriage."

The general impression I get is that lots of people knew that homosexuals existed, but as long as everyone (including homosexuals) pretended they didn't, it was more a case of live and let live.

[mothedrine]

I think you pick up on the same signals heteros do. If a man looks at you for a few milliseconds longer than normal and you catch him glancing back at you and not your boyfriend, you have a pretty good idea of his sexual orientation.

[AuntiePam]

Thanks to both of you. I wasn't sure if the OP was coherent, but you got what I meant.

It's downright disheartening, the turmoil this guy (in the book) is going through. Devastating is a better word.

And what a stupid war.

[Solfy]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

It's downright disheartening, the turmoil this guy (in the book) is going through. Devastating is a better word.

Turmoil related to crushing on a guy and having to keep it secret? Or turmoil from wondering if his gaydar is correctly calibrated? Because I could see either/both being a source of angst.

Even with supposedly better acceptance today, there are still people willing to stomp on someone's neck over misinterpreted advances. It's hard enough dating as a straight person who doesn't have to worry that the person they're hitting on won't just turn them down but might physically injure them.

[Flying Saucerian]

There were, if I understand correctly, signals and codes some Gays used, sort of like spies in enemy territory. Wearing a green tie or green carnation was big for awhile, as was the phrase 'Mickey Mouse.' The phrase 'Friend of Dorothy' came from that. Naturally, they changed them up quite often as the cops caught on.

[Pere]

Originally Posted by Flying Saucerian

Naturally, they changed them up quite often as the cops caught on.

How did one receive the new codes?

[AuntiePam]

Solfy, his turmoil is ever-changing. His feelings were reciprocated early on, so he didn't have much stress over that. But then he was left with jealousy that he didn't hide very well, when his lover became friendly (just friendly) with other men in the unit.

If the other men are picking up on it, they aren't saying anything. This might be because most of their attention is directed to a conscientious objector in the group.

Flying Saucerian, I've heard that too. Not about those particular phrases, but about signals. Makes good sense.

[mothedrine]

Were the cops ever really that interested in busting sodomites? My impression was that unless it was overt or they were given info they had to act on, it wasn't worth the trouble since it wasn't really that easy to prove.

[Flying Saucerian]

Originally Posted by Peremensoe

How did one receive the new codes?

Through the underground, same as other stuff.