Day Two -- Monster Manual Mafia

[Pleonast]

Welcome to Day Two, which will end on Friday 5 October at 12 noon California time, unless hammered or filibustered.

That was a lot of figuring. Here are the public results. I'll be sending out private results in a bit. Let me know if you expected something, but didn't get anything.

Chamber Pot Thieve is killed.

Role: Goblin
Side: Monster
Win: when all Heroes are eliminated and at least one Monster remains alive.
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Powers:
1. Horde: you may speak secretly with some other Monsters, Day or Night, at an URL provided each Dawn. You do not know the identities nor roles of these players. Even worse, it might be possible for a Hero to spy on your discussion. Be cautious! However, each Dawn you will receive a new URL, so that compromise of one will not carry over to another. This power cannot be tracked, blocked, redirected, or protected against.
2. Watch: each Night you may target another player. You will learn who targeted that player, unless they are protected, or you are blocked or redirected.

Paladin of Slaughter is killed.

Role: Orc
Side: Monster
Win: when all Heroes are eliminated and at least one Monster remains alive.
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Powers:
1. Horde: you may speak secretly with some other Monsters, Day or Night, at an URL provided each Dawn. You do not know the identities nor roles of these players. Even worse, it might be possible for a Hero to spy on your discussion. Be cautious! However, each Dawn you will receive a new URL, so that compromise of one will not carry over to another. This power cannot be tracked, blocked, redirected, or protected against.
2. Track: each Night you may target another player. You will learn who that player targeted, unless they are protected, or you are blocked or redirected.

Stocaryn Dragonsoultouched is killed.

Role: Doppleganger
Side: Monster
Win: when all Heroes are eliminated and at least one Monster remains alive.
Alignment: Neutral
Powers:
1. Shapechange: each Night, you may target another player. Any non-investigation powers directed at that player will instead be redirected to you. You are protected against any non-investigation powers directly targeting you. Any investigation powers directed at you will be redirected to your target. This power cannot be blocked or redirected.

Be sure to check out the updated player lists and vote counts in https://www.giraffeboards.com/showthread.php?t=47537

[Owlbear]

Whoa! We're down four monsters already? I am very glad we didn't No Lynch, or we'd be in even worse shape. Pfui!

[Bahamut]

That...looks like a nerfed but somewhat Mason-like group to me. Interesting that they all had the same secondary power.

[Bahamut]

NETA "Nerfed" in the sense that they didn't know who they actually were in-game.

[Mad Mage]

Oh my goodness.

[Paladin of Slaughter]

Well, hell.

[Eater of Socks]

Holy hell.

[Alan_Tudyk]

Originally Posted by Owlbear

Whoa! We're down four monsters already? I am very glad we didn't No Lynch, or we'd be in even worse shape. Pfui!

How does this follow?

[Owlbear]

Originally Posted by Alan_Tudyk

How does this follow?

We lost Zum yesterday, and now 3 more. The only gain we have had is in knowledge about Friendly Illithid.

[Friendly_Illithid]

Originally Posted by Owlbear

The only gain we have had is in knowledge about Friendly Illithid.

Originally Posted by Owlbear

My power does not provide me with results. However, I did receive a result from our Mod, and it must have been redirected to me somehow. I can think of no reason to keep it to myself, as such knowledge only benefits Town. I was told The Gazebo is a Monster.

That is all.

This seems a bit contradictory to me.

[Friendly_Illithid]

Chamber pot theive had the lowest post count so maybe someone targeting lurkers? Strocaryn I think has to have been killed as a result of targeting someone else who was killed if I'm reading the power correctly. No idea about Paladin of Slaughter though.

[Owlbear]

When is Day 2 over?

[PurpleWorm]

Originally Posted by Owlbear

When is Day 2 over?

Friday -- see first sentence in this thread.

[Bahamut]

So there appears to be a fair bit of symbiosis running around the game. Three monsters who could talk to each other; one of whom was outed and the other two who died together -- whether by one killer or two. We know friendly_illithid has another potential tie to another monster, their master.

I'm inclined to agree with F_I's assessment of Strocaryn's death. Not sure of it, but inclined.

[Owlbear]

My power does not provide me with results. However, I did receive a result from our Mod, and it must have been redirected to me somehow. I can think of no reason to keep it to myself, as such knowledge only benefits Town. I was told The Gazebo is a Monster.

That is all.

[Bahamut]

Originally Posted by Owlbear

My power does not provide me with results. However, I did receive a result from our Mod, and it must have been redirected to me somehow. I can think of no reason to keep it to myself, as such knowledge only benefits Town. I was told The Gazebo is a Monster.

That is all.

Benefits Town only if it is true and the Heroes, say, don't have a way of sowing a false message.

[Owlbear]

True.

[Owlbear]

And you only have my unconfirmed word for it. But if someone was checking on Gazebo last night, I figured they'd want to know.

[Owlbear]

I just noticed that Gazebo immediately follows me in the roll call. Dunno if that means anything.

[Owlbear]

I see d2 ends Friday at noon California time.

[Owlbear]

All of the dead voted for No Lynch yesterday. I can't see how that would be significant, though.

[Bahamut]

Originally Posted by Owlbear

All of the dead voted for No Lynch yesterday. I can't see how that would be significant, though.

Did they only vote for No Lynch, though?

[Owlbear]

Originally Posted by Bahamut

Did they only vote for No Lynch, though?

Well, no. There were also votes for others.

[PurpleWorm]

Oh - nevermind -- I see you figured it out.

[PurpleWorm]

Three deaths. We know that Illithid and master could be responsible for one. I assume the scum heroes are responsible for one. Do we have another vig or did scum kill two?

[Friendly_Illithid]

Originally Posted by PurpleWorm

Three deaths. We know that Illithid and master could be responsible for one. I assume the scum heroes are responsible for one. Do we have another vig or did scum kill two?

Pleonast said all players are monsters or heros right, so there's no third parties or SK's lurking around the place.

Must admit I'm surprised by the kill count & the choices. Although Stocaryn may not have been a choice so much as an unlucky target.

[Bahamut]

Stocaryn sounds like a bodyguard of sorts, so I suspect she was a very lucky guardian in that she protected the person she chose to act upon.

because I'd still love to test his can't-die statement.

Purple_Worm, I can only hope that if it was two hero kills, which I kind of doubt, that the ability to double down is not a nightly power or this game is going to go real quick.

[Bahamut]

(also, because I don't believe him and I thought his claim came at a really weird time.)

[Owlbear]

Vote Alan_Tudyk for seeming so vague on the benefits of not No Lynching. I am not trying to start a bandwagon off of Bahamut's vote, though.

[Pleonast]

Originally Posted by Owlbear

Vote Alan_Tudyk for seeming so vague on the benefits of not No Lynching. I am not trying to start a bandwagon off of Bahamut's vote, though.

This is not a valid vote, if you intended it to be.

Also, I edited the end of Day after you noticed I omitted it.

[Alan_Tudyk]

Bahamut: I didn't say I can't die, I said my power only contributes to my survival.

Owlbear: How was I seeming vague about the benefits of no-lynching? I argued against it!


Today, I asked how you think we are in better shape today than we would be if we had no-lynched. Because you didn't explain how losing two monsters is better than 0.

[Owlbear]

Originally Posted by Alan_Tudyk

Bahamut: I didn't say I can't die, I said my power only contributes to my survival.

Owlbear: How was I seeming vague about the benefits of no-lynching? I argued against it!


Today, I asked how you think we are in better shape today than we would be if we had no-lynched. Because you didn't explain how losing two monsters is better than 0.

See today's Post #8.

Vote Alan_Tudyk.

[Bahamut]

Four Monsters.

[Friendly_Illithid]

I'm going to throw some votes down on the later additions to my bandwagon.

Originally Posted by Roving Mauler

Really bad vote. If you're skimming, don't vote yet. If you're voting, please get the basic premise of the case correct.

I think the reasoning here is plain wrong, I didn't get the premise of any case incorrect. I just quoted Zumsandorola in my vote on Vichy because they were pointing out that votes on players are worthless & should be ignored if people are agreeing to all vote no lynch as well (which was my argument against no lynch from much earlier in the day).

Once it was pointed out to me that Zumsandorola was still in favour of no lynch & was arguing that D1 votes SHOULD be ignored I voted them too because again my argument was always that scum need to be forced to make cases that they have to stand over. I was wrong obviously but my case on Vichy didn't have anything to do with Zum & my vote on Zum didn't have anything to do with skimming.

Originally Posted by Erinyes

I reread Friendly's posts and didn't really see anything to redeem them. I think the No Lynch strategy is plausible enough that suggesting it shouldn't be scummy. (Voting based on someone supporting No Lynch or not isn't great, but I realize it's Day 1 and we don't have a lot to go on.)


for the misread of Zum, as mentioned in 255 -- and a little bit for the vichy/Zum votes

Jumped on the bandwagon but with plausible deniability (Votes me because I'm voting people for arguing for no lynch which they don't agree with, but also it's all understandable cos it's still D1).

Originally Posted by Alan_Tudyk

Trying to not end the day in no-lynch.

I'm not going to vote Alan for 3 reasons
- There's already 2 votes on him today and I don't want to start a wagon this early
- As a vote it seems basically genuine, he's not trying to force a reason or anything
- He's soft claimed a survivor role

[Owlbear]

Oh, but we DIDN'T lose 2 monsters, just 1. Though we would have lost 2 if Friendly hadn't been a zombie. Now I see your point.

Unvote Alan_Tudyk.

[Owlbear]

The only gain Monsters had at EoD was about you. Now I've been provided with info about Gazebo by the Mod. I'm inclined to believe it, but it cannot be considered as definite as the info about you, if only because I said it, and I haven't been confirmed as a Monster.

[Friendly_Illithid]

Originally Posted by Owlbear

The only gain Monsters had at EoD was about you. Now I've been provided with info about Gazebo by the Mod. I'm inclined to believe it, but it cannot be considered as definite as the info about you, if only because I said it, and I haven't been confirmed as a Monster.

But this was all today, within a few posts of each other, in the context of a discussion about how no lynch only gives information if people received information from night powers. I'm very raised eyebrows about you saying within 4 posts of each other that "the only gain in knowledge we had was about Illithid" and then saying oh and also I got a mod PM confirming someone as town. Even if you were dubious about the PM and whether it was true or some sort of scum ability to send fake messages that strikes me as odd.

Can you be more clear about exactly what you received from the mod?

[Friendly_Illithid]

[Owlbear]

I posted the first post (regarding you) BEFORE I realized I had a message from Pleonast. I wasn't expecting it.

The first post said: "The Gazebo is a Monster."

I questioned Pleonast about this, and got the reply:

"It's not an error, and up to you to decide what to make of it. "

I spent maybe a quarter of an hour trying to figure out if there was any reason not to share it with the class. Couldn't come up with one.

[Friendly_Illithid]

Originally Posted by Owlbear

I posted the first post (regarding you) BEFORE I realized I had a message from Pleonast. I wasn't expecting it.

The first post said: "The Gazebo is a Monster."

I questioned Pleonast about this, and got the reply:

"It's not an error, and up to you to decide what to make of it. "

I spent maybe a quarter of an hour trying to figure out if there was any reason not to share it with the class. Couldn't come up with one.

Hmm maybe. Gonna leave my vote for the moment. It was 20 mins after Day when you posted about the only gain in information thing. And you had made a post 5 minutes after day started. So it's a long time to not realise you got a PM. On the other hand why would you contradict yourself so instantly as a scum play. I'm undecided honestly.

[Alan_Tudyk]

I'm going to state that I am leaning Owlbear as my biggest suspect, but am not presently ready for a vote.

I also shall not be multi-voting if I can remember to unvote. I want any single vote to have the impact that it deserves. Split votes means split attention, and I am not about to do that.

Thanks for the investigative post, Friendly.

[PurpleWorm]

Why would OwlBear lie about it?

[vichyssoise please]

I tend to believe Owlbear. Town down four players would give Scum little reason to lie.

[vichyssoise please]

OTOH, if we assume the message was redirected, that doesn't mean that Owlbear is Town. If Scum got such a redirected message they would probably post it.

[PurpleWorm]

I agree. I think OwlBear got a message saying that Gazebo is a monster. I don't think that says anything about OwlBear's alignment and I don't even thinks it says much about Gazebo. We don't know where the message came from.

[Gelatinous Cube]

*cube quivers*lots of food this morning. 1 zombie kill, 1 hero kill and...? Perhaps a loveresque relationship?

[Gelatinous Cube]

*cube quivers*I believe owlbear got that message. And telling us was a monstrous maneuver. I do not necessarily believe the accuracy of the message.

[The Gazebo]

Originally Posted by PurpleWorm

I agree. I think OwlBear got a message saying that Gazebo is a monster. I don't think that says anything about OwlBear's alignment and I don't even thinks it says much about Gazebo. We don't know where the message came from.

As much as I'd like to take advantage of the situation, this is clearly true. Without knowing more about what's going on, it'd be suspicious if anyone but me believed that message uncritically.

[Erinyes]

Quick thoughts between baseball and bedtime:

1) CPT and Paladin were both pretty light on content -- Paladin had 4 posts I took notes on (early Owlbear vote, sock complaint, No Lynch vote D1; pro-roles-w/o-info-exist comment N1; 11 other fluffy posts), while Chamber had 4 total. Either:
* (a) Zombie-controlling/vigilante/etc monsters thought they were lurking heroes
* (b) Heroes wanted easy kills that wouldn't be protected/watched/etc
* (c) Kills from either side redirected to them
* (d) Something else I'm overlooking

2) Stocaryn went the other way and voted for Owlbear voters, supported No Lynch vigorously, voted for the Zum bandwagon as it stood at post 250 (me, Baha, J!C, Mad Mage, Morden, and our monstrous Friend), and never posted again that Day; their one Night post was pro-No-Lynch. If forced to guess, I'd say that they used Shapechange to protect an obvious monster and paid the ultimate price. On the other hand, it's quite possible that the heroes wanted them dead. It's even possible they fell to something from (a) to (d) above (most likely (c) or (d)).

3) I haven't have the time to look at Day 2 critically yet (I've read it over commercial breaks, but that's not a good way to really understand something) -- I'm going to try to get a good night's rest and hopefully be more insightful tomorrow.

[vichyssoise please]

For the "Bullshit" comment overreaction yesterDay.