Distrust the machines.

[Marlitharn]

Last summer, my son and his girlfriend attempted to travel from Missouri to Michigan with the aid of a Mapquest map. They got lost, of course. In Ohio.

Three times in the last couple of weeks, I and my co-workers have had to send tow trucks and/or officers out to people whose Tomtoms decided that traveling on well-maintained major highways and interstates and reaching their destinations in peace and safety was lame, and directed the drivers instead to randomly veer off onto pitch-dark gravel roads lined with chicken-fucking owls and banjo players, where they promptly got stuck in ditches. You wouldn't believe the sense of betrayal and shock I heard over the phone when they called for help. "I can't believe this happened, I was doing what the GPS said!" one girl sobbed.

I suppose it's possible that I'm unfairly maligning these little gadgets; I freely admit I've never actually seen one in action, so all these lost souls may have been caused by ID ten T error. Or the satellite signals may have been hacked by aliens looking for lulz. Whichever, if I ever take a trip again I think I'll stick to my old-fashioned road atlas.

[Victor Frankenstein]

I don't have a GPS and pretty much only use Google Maps for directions. So far they have only missed once - they provided the wrong name for an exit off a highway.

[WednesdayAddams]

Originally Posted by Marlitharn

I suppose it's possible that I'm unfairly maligning these little gadgets; I freely admit I've never actually seen one in action, so all these lost souls may have been caused by ID ten T error. Or the satellite signals may have been hacked by aliens looking for lulz. Whichever, if I ever take a trip again I think I'll stick to my old-fashioned road atlas.

From what I understand, it comes of not updating the maps frequently enough. Google maps is pretty good, but even they don't have info on some of the streets out in West Texas.

[Uthrecht]

Trust the Computer. The Computer is your Friend. The Computer loves you. To not love the Computer is treason. Traitors are shot. Do you love the Computer?

I've been using GPS units for oh, two and a half to three years now I think. First a car-mounted Garmin, and now (generally) my iPhone. By and large they seem to be reliable for me. The iPhone can get a little more confused at granular, higher-speed locations, likely a limitation of what locating hardware it has. It uses Google maps, and I'm not sure I've seen it be at a total loss. I think the Garmin has been fooled once or twice at newer developments.



My parents use the built-in GPS unit on their Subaru. It doesn't know about their development.

Er, but otherwise it seems to work fine!

[jali]

Doesn't Mapquest send you past the businesses that support their service, no matter how far out of your way the route might be?

This is my reason for distrust. I imagine the GPSes have similar corporate sponsors.


I don't know how to pluralize GPS.

[Zeener Diode]

Originally Posted by jali

I don't know how to pluralize GPS.

Global Positioning System(s).


ETA: For years, the Thomas Guides were my Bibles. And after driving a set route for four years there were still streets that were omitted from each successive edition.

I wonder what systems emergency responders use?

[Tamsen]

I got a Garmin GPS for Chirstmas. I was going to try and regift it but then I had to take an emergency trip down to see Mom and since it was her gift.....I knew she'd ask if I had used it. So I caved and opened the box and plugged it in.


Garmins are addictive. Like.......the kind of addiction that only takes one use.

[hajario]

Back when I was doing lots of business travel in the U.S., I would always rent Hertz cars with Neverlost. They made life so much easier. My sense of direction is for shit and I'd be all alone in a city where I have never been before and I never got lost. I had a handful of minor problems from time to time but overall I loved it.

The iPhone isn't as easy because it doesn't talk to you but it's helped me out numerous times. The have a new ap that does talk to you but it's ten bucks a month. It's probably not worth it to me because I don't go out of town very often anymore.

Do the tomtoms and Garmins charge a monthly fee once you buy them?

[Uthrecht]

They don't charge monthly fees, hajario, but at least Garmin will start nudging you to get a more up-to-date map after a year, which will cost you.

I've noticed that Magellan and TomTom (I believe), and one or two other companies have GPS apps for the iPhone, but I saw mixed reviews on the apps. They both use their own maps, not Google.

[hajario]

Do they plug into the cigarette lighter thing or do you have wire them down into the dash or batteries or what? It would be cool to have one that I could put in different cars but it would suck to have a wire running down in front of the CD player or whatever.

[Auntbeast]

If our GPS had not been stolen, I was determined to discover where it was sending us from our house down the mountain. It is pretty much one road, turn left, keep going. The GPS had like 15 different turns and roads.

Since I live in the Land of Deliverance (really, it was filmed around her) I value my life too much to do it any other time than high noon.

[Dirx]

I have a tomtom, and there's no monthly fee. Plus, you can get Mr. T for the voice instructions! (though celebrity voices cost about $10, last I checked).

It's not perfect on generating routes, but I tend to make my own beforehand and then program them in. I use the tomtom mainly for reminding me when to turn where on long trips, as well as for reporting on mileage and such. It is good for getting you back onto your route if you had to detour off, for whatever reason.

EDIT: and yes, it does plug into the cigarette lighter. I wedged my cord into the gap around the glove compartment, to keep it out of the way.

[OutStandingInTheField]

Google Maps is questionable. Last year I was trying to navigate an unfamiliar and busy down-town core of a major city, and it told me to turn left where no left turn was possible (and I mean physically possible, not just some namby-pamby law against it). I sorted out that mess by going blocks out of the way until I could get back on course, then a block later it told me to turn right where only buses are permitted to turn. I was not driving a bus. This was probably my fault for not specifying this to Google Maps.

Later, I was reserving accommodation for a beachside getaway, and was specifically told by the proprietor of the place to ignore Google Maps and GPS devices, as they would all tell me to take a route that appears shorter on paper, but actually involves traversing a significant distance along a poorly-maintained and badly-signposted forestry road, when there is a perfectly good paved road that gets me there sooner. (I checked, and she was right.)

[hajario]

Originally Posted by Dirx

I have a tomtom, and there's no monthly fee. Plus, you can get Mr. T for the voice instructions! (though celebrity voices cost about $10, last I checked).

A friend of mine has Cartman's voice on hers. "Turn left you stupid, Jew!"

[The Futility of Nihilism]

I'm not sure what drives the accuracy of these things. I live on a little street off of a major street. Google maps used to show it as a short little stub off the major street; not quite accurate but close enough. But about six months ago the rearranged things; now the location of my street shows up as a blank area and nearby they've labeled a whole bunch of streets with inaccurate names, one of which is the name of my street.

Now what's really funny is that that new network of streets they put on their map is based on a years-old satellite picture of a nearby apartment complex. Apparently they mixed up the in-complex roads as city streets. The funny part is that that complex was razed years ago (rendering the google "map" of the area useless) and sometime in the next year or so they're going to be building a Wal-mart and stuff.

Interestingly mapquest still shows my street as a little stub off the main street.

[Uthrecht]

Originally Posted by OutStandingInTheField

Later, I was reserving accommodation for a beachside getaway, and was specifically told by the proprietor of the place to ignore Google Maps and GPS devices, as they would all tell me to take a route that appears shorter on paper, but actually involves traversing a significant distance along a poorly-maintained and badly-signposted forestry road, when there is a perfectly good paved road that gets me there sooner. (I checked, and she was right.)

This is actually a valid point, and I hadn't thought of it. Some mailing addresses are disliked by GPSs, and you need to rig up a false or alternate address for it. It doesn't happen often, but enough to make me usually test-check the path before going on a long trip.

It's also good to have a GPS that can use latitude/longitude coordinates instead of an address.

[Zeener Diode]

Originally Posted by hajario

Do they plug into the cigarette lighter thing or do you have wire them down into the dash or batteries or what? It would be cool to have one that I could put in different cars but it would suck to have a wire running down in front of the CD player or whatever.

Originally Posted by Dirx

EDIT: and yes, it does plug into the cigarette lighter. I wedged my cord into the gap around the glove compartment, to keep it out of the way.

:nitpick: I haven't seen a cigarette lighter in a new car since 1990. What I see are power points.

[Dirx]

Originally Posted by Zeener Diode

:nitpick: I haven't seen a cigarette lighter in a new car since 1990. What I see are power points.

Fair 'nuff, though my circa 2005 car actually has both. They're functionally identical, except one has had the lighter in it (dunno where it is now, but I don't care; I don't smoke), and the other just has a flip-open cover.

[blank]

Many years ago I travelled to San Diego on business (coincidentally on GPS systems). We got a sat-nav with our rental car which was amusing- especially when it directed us to a veteran hospital instead of San Diego zoo. The marines on guard were quite understanding and were quite impressed that someone from Ireland could tell them what the problem was with the L1 channel (this was pre SA switch-off).

[blank]

Originally Posted by blank

Many years ago I travelled to San Diego on business (coincidentally on GPS systems). We got a sat-nav with our rental car which was amusing- especially when it directed us to a veteran hospital instead of San Diego zoo. The marines on guard were quite understanding and were quite impressed that someone from Ireland could tell them what the problem was with the L1 channel (this was pre SA switch-off).

Sorry- L1 is the civilian channel on GPS (L2 is the military). SA is Selective Availability; This was the additional artificial error that was added to the L1 channel to give really naff positional quality (upto 100m error).

[Zombies!]

South Australian ambulance drivers have a dash-mounted GPS system (ask me how I know this), though I'm not sure if it's TomTom or Navman or what.

However, there have been times when I've had to physically direct the ambos on how to get from our house to the hospital. That's five minutes away, straight shot down a main highway.

[blank]

But you have to remember that all sat-navs are only as good as the map data stored on them. Unfortunately most of the time they are horrendously out of date.

[Zombies!]

Sorry, that's what I was implying blank. The ambulance drivers come from whichever station has an ambulance free at the time, which isn't always our local one. So I don't blame them for not knowing the way. I've just found it somewhat amusing (if it wasn't so stressful at the time) that I'm having to tell the Ambulance staff which way to go, even they don't like relying on the GPS.

[hajario]

I've gone to places where it says in huge letters on their web page "DO NOT USE MAPQUEST TO GET HERE. FOLLOW OUR DIRECTIONS!!"

[Dragonlady]

I deliver mail in a rural area and at least twice a week someone stops to ask me how far it is up Intermountain Road to get to Bear Mountain Road. About 20 miles, if you know which goat path to take and if the creek isn't running too high. LOCALS don't go that way. People WHO LIVE ON INTERMOUNTAIN ROAD don't go that way. A couple people have told me it IS possible, with 4wheel drive, if you know which path to take.
And my last house showed on Mapquest as being in a lake. not ON a lake- IN a lake.
Well.....duh!

[hajario]

So Garmin or Tomtom?

Is there a big difference? Are the basic models of each one good enough or is it better to go more fancy?

[blank]

Originally Posted by hajario

So Garmin or Tomtom?

Is there a big difference? Are the basic models of each one good enough or is it better to go more fancy?

They both have bought mapping companies (I think Tomtom got Naviteq). And Nokia have just bought in too.

[Jaglavak]

I use a compact laptop with Topo USA and a wireless GPS. I'm going to switch to a netbook soon, which I consider to be about the minimum practical size for use with a topo.

I don't bother firing it up just around town, but on road trips the thing is almost like a copilot. Zoom out, click the next town, search for Mexican restaraunts, get the phone number, call ahead and make reservations. And it really shines on obscure backcountry tracks, a surprising percentage of which are actually on the map. Supplementing with Google Earth screen shots of your target area gives you a real good lookahead. You may not get the romance of wandering through the trackless wilderness, but it sure takes the stress out of wondering how far to the next gas station.

[Marlitharn]

One of these days these things will attain sentience and we'll all find ourselves forced against our wills to drive to Sonny's Truck Stop and Cabaret in Bumfuck, North Carolina where big trucks with kicking AC/DC theme music will line us up and run over us all.

Emilio Estevez is too old to save us now...

[blank]

I've always said that we get a good cull of the stupids if we could get the sat-navs to say "Turn left now!" when people are travelling west along Beachy Head.

[Xploder]

We got some of the very first generation GPS's out in Desert Storm. Unfortunately, we got them with NO instructions whatsoever. Between that and the fact that our maps were basically big blank pieces of paper, we pretty much went with the standard "I am here. I want to go there. There is 270 degrees from here." and off we went.

I don't remember getting any instruction on how to use the damn things until AFTER the ground war was over.

[blank]

Originally Posted by Xploder

We got some of the very first generation GPS's out in Desert Storm. Unfortunately, we got them with NO instructions whatsoever. Between that and the fact that our maps were basically big blank pieces of paper, we pretty much went with the standard "I am here. I want to go there. There is 270 degrees from here." and off we went.

I don't remember getting any instruction on how to use the damn things until AFTER the ground war was over.

I don't think they were first gen- We were selling high end GPS kit back then to the civilian sector- I remember it well because the civilian band got switched off until the end of the war.

[Uthrecht]

I think they would technically have been first generation. According to the Wiki timeline, the Block I satellites were 1978-1985, but those were all experimental proof-of-concept apparently. The first Block II satellites started to be placed in 1989, which means Xploder was probably working off Block I satellites (as would you, blank, in that period). Apparently the DOD declared GPS to have initial operational capacity in 1993. Dual-use was declared in 1996.

[blank]

Originally Posted by Uthrecht

I think they would technically have been first generation. According to the Wiki timeline, the Block I satellites were 1978-1985, but those were all experimental proof-of-concept apparently. The first Block II satellites started to be placed in 1989, which means Xploder was probably working off Block I satellites (as would you, blank, in that period). Apparently the DOD declared GPS to have initial operational capacity in 1993. Dual-use was declared in 1996.

The constellation might have been first generation but our receivers had gone through 3 or 4 iterations by the time of the first Gulf War.