Looking Glass Mafia Day Four

[SisterCoyote]

"It seems a shame," the Walrus said,
"To play them such a trick,
After we've brought them out so far,
And made them trot so quick!"
The Carpenter said nothing but
"The butter's spread too thick!"

"I weep for you," the Walrus said.
"I deeply sympathize."
With sobs and tears he sorted out
Those of the largest size.
Holding his pocket handkerchief
Before his streaming eyes.


contrariwise,

'And hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.


guiri, the Walrus (goo goo ga choob), Town Mason and Wombat99, Jabberwocky, Town Bomb Sniffer have been slain.

ToDay begins now. It will end Friday, December 21 or when/if 90% of the living players vote: hammer.

Apologies for the lazy color and the late start. The mod Might have had a bit much to drink last night...

[guiri]

Go Town!!!

Spoilers or sub back in please

[EnderBoy]

Sorry and adios to y'all.

Masonry down to two. Guess we'll just have to go recruit more, eh?

Sorry to see you go, Wombat. I completly totally didn't think you were town at all. My bad.

[Rabid Renaissance]

So is there a scum bomb/bomber, or is that just what the scum want us to think?

Sorry we all almost hung you, Wombat, but you held your own and talked some of us off of the cliff, which is very commendable. Huzzah, my good sir.

[Giraffe]

So the Masons are confirmed now, that's good. And I'm pretty sure I was going to be able to talk everyone into lynching Wombat toDay, so whoever killed him bought Town an extra lynch. Not worth losing two Town players in one Night, but at least there is a small upside to both deaths.

I wonder who killed Wombat? His flipping Town opens a whole range of options in terms of scum suspects, which makes me think that if scum killed him, many of those options are likely wrong. I doubt Town has two Vigs, so unless peeker is lying about his role/alignment, that leaves only scum or a serial killer behind the death. (Since peeker is in fact currently still alive.)

Off to reread Day three....

[Giraffe]

OK, after a reread there's a lot of interesting stuff happening on Day 3. Most interesting to me:

1. People who seemed unconcerned about Wombat's and my claims of both being Town, displaying their scummy perfect information syndrome. They knew Wombat was telling the truth, and didn't want to get on board with lynching him. (Plus they wanted the Mad Bomber taken out as well.)

2. People who got outraged by the implication that maybe EnderBoy was lying with his Mason claim (I think this was mainly Polluxo) before the other Masons claimed, again not displaying the suspicion and skepticism I'd expect from Town.

3. People who kept arguing that it was OK to leave Wombat alive because maybe he was third party. That feels like scum who want to show skepticism but not risk encouraging a lynch of the Town bomb sniffer, who they're hoping will help find the Mad Bomber.

My top scum suspects right now (not necessarily in order of scumminess):

1. gnarlycharlie
2. Polluxo
3. Askthepizzaguy (if he survives toNight, we should kill him toMorrow)
4. Rabid Renaissance

Here are some interesting posts from Day 3:

Originally Posted by gnarlycharlie

that said, what's with all the votes for Wombat? is Giraffe suddenly confirmed? what makes you think he's town? i've played in a game that scum was a bomb. if lynched, the last player voting him would die as well. he could also be 3rd party. why trust his claim explicitly, especially when he's claimed scotsman as well? as for mad bomber, i've been in a game where all those tagged died when the bomber died.

that doesn't mean Wombat isn't hiding something. i think he's 3rd party. i don't think finding the bomb is necessarily a town or scum role. his wincon might be to find and "defuse" the bomb. in that case, Giraffe just helped him. another reason i think he's 3rd party is that in his claim, it used "town's" instead of "Town" which is the case in all the other claims. of course he could still be scum but if i'm right, we've narrowed the scum pool further. if the other masons decide to come out, it could be over.

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

The distinguished Longneck is on shaky ground here. The vigilante is already remorseful, there's little need, balance-wise, to have a scum bomb.

Originally Posted by Polluxo

I think lynching Wombat is a terrible idea.

Doing this quickly because I have to go somewhere soon.

1. Let's say there's a third-party mad bomber role, with the typical win condition of "tag enough people and steal the win from town."
2. Let's also say there's a town bomb role, with the typical power of "blow up if you're targeted for a Nightkill."
3. Let's finally say there's a town role much like the gunsmith, except it finds explosives, not guns.

Wombat's purpose is to find the mad bomber/eliminate mad bomber threats because otherwise nobody knows how many people there are tagged. However, because there's also a town bomb, when he sniffs somebody out his job isn't foolproof because there is also a town-oriented person with explosives (Giraffe).

Much like septimus could accidentally sniff out a vigilante as well as scum, Wombat can accidentally sniff out the town bomb as well as the third-party mad bomber.

I can understand Giraffe's mistake. EnderBoy I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt with the mason thing. But I'm highly suspicious of both Zeener and Rabid as actually being the third-party mad bomber. Rabid being able to communicate with the sniffer as the bomber would be interesting, although I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt for now because she at the very least can "prove" her inventions.

Zeener, on the other hand, could be trying to take out Wombat for his own personal gain: giving him an easier time to bomb things. So my vote will remain where it is, but for different reasons now.

Originally Posted by Polluxo

This is THE most ass-backwards town I've ever played with. Seriously? First, you're not willing to accept the idea that Wombat's role is truthful simply because you're Town and anybody identifying bombs must then not be Town.

Second, you want the claimed Mason to /out/ the rest of his Mason group, and then freaking LYNCH ONE OF THEM!?!

Are you KIDDING ME?!

I mean, this isn't like it's endgame and everyone's claimed and all the claims make sense except for the Mason group. That's one thing. But we have eight...EIGHT people who are unclaimed and unidentified who we can analyze and look at before we even CONSIDER wasting a lynch on a Mason. In fact, I'd much rather lynch Rabid, Pizzaguy, and Chucara over lynching a Mason.

If Town is that dumb scum or third-party deserve to win. Seriously. There's healthy skepticism and then there's outright stupid fucking paranoia. We have no reason to doubt EnderBoy's claim as of this moment. All of this is in your head. I refuse to go along with such stupidity.

Originally Posted by Polluxo

Why do you assume that at least one of Giraffe and Wombat have to be non-Town? Can't they both be Town? Why does everyone seem to think that Wombat and Giraffe exist in a bubble all their own and there aren't any other roles for Wombat to interact with?

For that matter, I ask everyone seriously considering lynching a Mason just to prove the Masonhood: have you EVER been in a game previous to this one where it was necessary to lynch a claimed Mason? The only time I've ever been in one was where the Masons immediately came out and said they knew for sure that one of the Masons was actually scum. Of course, that game was horribly balanced and not right from the beginning, but that's neither here nor there. The point is, in no other game I've ever played was it necessary to lynch a claimed Mason, or even talked about.

This is an all-time high for Mafia paranoia. I don't know what's caused it but everyone is complicating things to the extreme. Occam's Razor, people!

I haven't said much about Rabid, because it's really mostly a feeling at this point, but I'm finding his claim of Town pretty unbelievable in a game with Masons. I could easily see him being scum, and getting to communicate with the Bomb detector gives both teams access to that information. His claim also smells a bit of "let's get a Town player to confirm aspects of my claim, to help cement my own Town image". Wombat was suspicious as well:

Originally Posted by Wombat99

So here's my thinking. I don't believe Giraffe can be Town, because I'm Town and he's a Bomb, and the whole reason for my role is to sniff him and any other exploding players out.

What I don't know is if Giraffe is the only player possessing explosives. If he is, would the game setup require an investigator just for the purpose of finding him?

I also feel like Rabid flushed me out. She called for a "mass claim" but then specifically posted this (snipped):

In hindsight it feels purposeful; she was either fishing for confirmation for herself, or to flush out the bomb-sniffer, and maybe I shouldn't have fallen for it.

The main wrinkle with Rabid is Septimus' investigation result of Rabid as not having a killing role, which Septimus' role PM seemed to indicate would mean he wasn't scum, but given that we can expect Godfathers in this game, some of the scum may not return from that kind of investigation as killers.

[peekercpa]

pssst. hey g first you made [g]guiri[/b] a she and now you make rabid a he. pretty neat tricks.

[Rabid Renaissance]

That case on me is entirely circumstantial, Giraffe. I also think you need to back up statements such as my role as claimed shouldn't/wouldn't/couldn't be in a game with Masons. The key omission being what your other assumptions are wrt to who actually holds the Town roles that they've claimed. Because I can assure you that the Masons and I are on the same side, so perhaps there are some scum lurking in your blind spots...or what you'd like some of us believed to have been blind spots should they be tested and found lacking.

That is a self effacing smiley. Giraffe is parked squarely in my I-don't-want-to-trust-you area. With Pizza. And Pollux. I at least agree with Giraffe in some of his analysis that arguments of seemingly blind faith in the Masons may be seen as slips of perfect knowledge. No one was advocating lynching the Masons, at least not until somewhere in end game perhaps, and this is where Pizza shows up again as someone who seemed to downplay the possibility that the Masonry required skepticism. I just know that some, and heck, possibly all, of my reads on those players are off base.

I'm not confirmed, but I am no Godfather and I have investigated clean according to the dead Town cop. Don't let Godfather fear unduly undo his fine service. I think he and I both deserve a bit more of the benefit of the doubt than that. I'm the White Knight, and I approve this message.

[Val Salva]

I was thinking about this game in the shower this morning and something was bugging me about Zeener's vote yesterday. I couldn't put it it together, but suddenly it came to me:

(I hope this makes sense - I have trouble organizing my thoughts sometimes.)

If Zeener is Scum, he would have known that Colby was not Scum.
I also think Scum has a bomb of some type. If Zeener (Scum team) figured Wombat's role was to find their bomber, they may not think that there was a 3rd party bomber. I think he (they) thought Colby was Town and he would play the "Noble Townie" card and declare Vanilla - i.e. "I'll sacrifice myself so we don't lose a power role." thinking that he was safe (b/c he was thinking Colby was Town.)
I think that's why he was not only willing but also eager to be the last vote.

So that and his weird Night vote on me out of nowhere and his verbal protection of Pizza, whom I also suspect is Scum:



However, I can be persuaded into a Pizza lynch as well.

[EnderBoy]

Originally Posted by peekercpa

without quoting your post enderboy this board has become notorious for funky mason claims. and while i certainly do not expect you or your sithren or brethren to come out without an imminent lynch i remain sceptical. i really hate to say it but the only way you or one of your mates can be confirmed is by one of you dying.

Originally Posted by peekercpa

yaknow i will probably get lynched for this but when did that ever stop me. i think ender and his two mates go ahead and cross confirm each other. then we string one of them up. having been part of a scum team that pulled perhaps the greatest fake mason claim of all times (kudos naf and mhaye) and knowing this board's propensity for funkiness i don't necessarily see a downside. i mean other than the fact that we lynch a townie and expose two more. but cripes everyone else has claimed something it seems. let's go ahead and throw the whole deck face up.

Originally Posted by peekercpa

and i guess the primary reason that i was in support of a full mason claim is summarized as follows:

masons are a pain in the ass because everyone gives them a pass until one shows up dead. ...
masons are a pain in the ass because given our communal propensity for letting them slide we let them get away with anything. and since town won't lynch them and scum won't NK them, especially if it is fake they can careen through a game much like i do.

my two cents.

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

[i]
guiri, the Walrus (goo goo ga choob), Town Mason... have been slain.

All quoted for quotiness.

I guess my general question is this: Does anyone here want to stand up and claim the wayward extra kill last night?

And then, specifically, ::shines overhead light in peeker's face:: hey peekercpa, what were you doing last night?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Regarding the distinguished Val

It's getting under my skin the way she repeatedly asks me who I've protected at night. I can't protect the same person twice in a row.

If I reveal who I protect, the scum know exactly who to murder at night. The next night.

Listen I realize I look scummy, but I'm also town, and those kinds of questions can only help the scum.

I request some further scrutiny of Val Salva.



Second after her is still gnarly. But gnarly isn't asking all the wrong questions.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Note: yesterday she cranked up the pressure on that question, and the next night there's two kills.

It seems to me the scums may have a secondary kill, perhaps a one-shot? I know if I were scum, I wouldn't want to waste my one-shot against whoever the doc is protecting.



Distinguished Peeker couldn't have done that kill, he's gotta be townie for boinking scum and he claimed remorseful. If that was peeker, he'd be dead.

[KidVermicious]

I'm still reading previous days, so I have nothing to add to the game yet, just checking in and letting you know I'm here.

Originally Posted by guiri

Welcome KidV, thanks for subbing in!

Vote Kid Vermicious

The delay in Dawn can only be attributed to you needing time to do something.

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

guiri, the Walrus (goo goo ga choob), Town Mason [has] been slain.

Take THAT, you rude bastard.

Originally Posted by Rabid Renaissance

Thanks for helping out, KidV.

You're quite welcome. Between trying desperately to get my truck on the road and modding the other game, I can't guarantee that I'll be much of an improvement, but I'll do my best.

[EnderBoy]

Originally Posted by KidVermicious

You're quite welcome. Between trying desperately to get my truck on the road and modding the other game, I can't guarantee that I'll be much of an improvement, but I'll do my best.

You posted.

Congrats on the improvement!

[Scáthach]

I'm in the process of catching back up today, did I miss a clam that would explain the two NK's? I know peeker has claimed vig, but I thought he was remorseful?

[SisterCoyote]

Day Four Initial Vote Count as of Post 15:

Val Salva (2,1): Askthepizzaguy (11), penalty
Zeener Diode (1,1): Val Salva (9)

With these votes, Val Salva will be lynched.

ToDay will end on Friday, December 21 at Noon, unless the hammer is broughten.

[Scáthach]

I think I probably have a penalty vote too actually.

[gnarlycharlie]

Originally Posted by Giraffe

OK, after a reread there's a lot of interesting stuff happening on Day 3. Most interesting to me:

1. People who seemed unconcerned about Wombat's and my claims of both being Town, displaying their scummy perfect information syndrome. They knew Wombat was telling the truth, and didn't want to get on board with lynching him. (Plus they wanted the Mad Bomber taken out as well.)

2. People who got outraged by the implication that maybe EnderBoy was lying with his Mason claim (I think this was mainly Polluxo) before the other Masons claimed, again not displaying the suspicion and skepticism I'd expect from Town.

3. People who kept arguing that it was OK to leave Wombat alive because maybe he was third party. That feels like scum who want to show skepticism but not risk encouraging a lynch of the Town bomb sniffer, who they're hoping will help find the Mad Bomber.

My top scum suspects right now (not necessarily in order of scumminess):

1. gnarlycharlie
2. Polluxo
3. Askthepizzaguy (if he survives toNight, we should kill him toMorrow)
4. Rabid Renaissance

<snipped>

so your scum list includes all the players who are suspicious of you. do i need to say more?

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Regarding the distinguished Val

It's getting under my skin the way she repeatedly asks me who I've protected at night. I can't protect the same person twice in a row.

If I reveal who I protect, the scum know exactly who to murder at night. The next night.

Listen I realize I look scummy, but I'm also town, and those kinds of questions can only help the scum.

I request some further scrutiny of Val Salva.



Second after her is still gnarly. But gnarly isn't asking all the wrong questions.

i'm flattered you're thinking of me.

[Zeener Diode]

Originally Posted by Val Salva

I was thinking about this game in the shower this morning and something was bugging me about Zeener's vote yesterday. I couldn't put it it together, but suddenly it came to me:

(I hope this makes sense - I have trouble organizing my thoughts sometimes.)

If Zeener is Scum, he would have known that Colby was not Scum.

I can't argue with logic like that!

I also think Scum has a bomb of some type. If Zeener (Scum team) figured Wombat's role was to find their bomber, they may not think that there was a 3rd party bomber. I think he (they) thought Colby was Town and he would play the "Noble Townie" card and declare Vanilla - i.e. "I'll sacrifice myself so we don't lose a power role." thinking that he was safe (b/c he was thinking Colby was Town.)
I think that's why he was not only willing but also eager to be the last vote.

What about Day 2 and Night 2? If I were scum, why would I lynch one of my own and insist another be Vigged? I suppose I was bussing the former to gain town cred and bussing the latter to test peeker's claim, right?

So that and his weird Night vote on me out of nowhere and his verbal protection of Pizza, whom I also suspect is Scum:

Zeener Diode

However, I can be persuaded into a Pizza lynch as well.

I laid out my reasons for why I found you scummy last Night. And now you're opening your Day with a vote on me which sounds very much OMGUS-ish.



Can you tell us why you would be willing to lynch Pizza as well? Or are you just saying that to cuddle* with Giraffe?


*I don't really blame anyone wanting to cuddle with Giraffe, he's a pretty handsome dude, what with that neck thing going on...

[Zeener Diode]

Where is peeker? Was he killed because he shot Wombat?

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by gnarlycharlie

so your scum list includes all the players who are suspicious of you. do i need to say more?

Only if you want to contribute anything useful to the discussion.

I don't think finding me suspicious is the least bit scummy. What I think is scummy is finding reasons not to lynch Wombat that don't make sense, given the information available to Town at that time, and then smudging players who thought lynching him made sense. Had someone made the case that I was more likely to be scum than Wombat (and then actually given some reasons), I would have thought that was the Towniest thing in the world. But just happening to believe his claim just because and then going after players who didn't, that reeks of Perfect Information Syndrome to me.

As does hinting at my scummy motives without actually being willing to vote me. Scum know that my claim is true, so they're going to shy away from actually putting themselves out there to lead a charge on me. They also don't want lynch votes on me, in case I decide to blow up and kill them. Town players who are suspicious of me would have just voted me: what is the harm? If I'm telling the truth, nothing happens. At worst, I'm a one-shot Town Vig. If I'm lying, I'm scum or third party and lynching me is the right move.

So I think looking at how people react to me goes way beyond OMGUS. And several of the people on my list have been playing exactly how I'd expect scum to play in this situation.

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by Zeener Diode

Where is peeker? Was he killed because he shot Wombat?

Unlikely, since he posted in this thread already (post #7).

[Zeener Diode]

Originally Posted by Giraffe

Unlikely, since he posted in this thread already (post #7).

Originally Posted by peekercpa

pssst. hey g first you made [g]guiri[/b] a she and now you make rabid a he. pretty neat tricks.

You're right; I completely glossed over that bit of fluff.

I was thinking, after I read toDay's color, that peeker took a shot at Wombat. Now I'm wondering where the second kill came from.

[Giraffe]

On another topic, it's interesting that last Night was the first Night with two Town deaths. Makes me wonder if one of our inactive players is the serial killer? Inner Stickler / KidV is the most likely candidate, with Scathach a possible second.



Sorry, KidV. I hate to lynch a sub on their first Day in, but I just don't see an active player who is a serial killer sitting on their hands for the first two Days. So if there is one, there's a good chance it's you.

[gnarlycharlie]

Originally Posted by Giraffe

Only if you want to contribute anything useful to the discussion.

I don't think finding me suspicious is the least bit scummy. What I think is scummy is finding reasons not to lynch Wombat that don't make sense, given the information available to Town at that time, and then smudging players who thought lynching him made sense. Had someone made the case that I was more likely to be scum than Wombat (and then actually given some reasons), I would have thought that was the Towniest thing in the world. But just happening to believe his claim just because and then going after players who didn't, that reeks of Perfect Information Syndrome to me.

As does hinting at my scummy motives without actually being willing to vote me. Scum know that my claim is true, so they're going to shy away from actually putting themselves out there to lead a charge on me. They also don't want lynch votes on me, in case I decide to blow up and kill them. Town players who are suspicious of me would have just voted me: what is the harm? If I'm telling the truth, nothing happens. At worst, I'm a one-shot Town Vig. If I'm lying, I'm scum or third party and lynching me is the right move.

So I think looking at how people react to me goes way beyond OMGUS. And several of the people on my list have been playing exactly how I'd expect scum to play in this situation.

sheesh. my point is that i don't need to elaborate on my comment. i think everyone understands what i mean.

and i see you didn't really address it either. no matter what the reasons are, i think it's pretty paranoid thinking that those who find you suspicious are on your scum list.

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by gnarlycharlie

sheesh. my point is that i don't need to elaborate on my comment. i think everyone understands what i mean.

and i see you didn't really address it either. no matter what the reasons are, i think it's pretty paranoid thinking that those who find you suspicious are on your scum list.

Did you even read my post? I specifically addressed exactly this, which you skipped over so you could say again that none of my arguments had merit because the people I'm suspicious of argued against my attempt to lynch Wombat yesterDay.

Do me a favor, pick one of these two options:

1. I think Giraffe is likely scum.
2. I think Giraffe is likely Town.

You can literally answer with one of the two numbers and nothing else if you want.

[Val Salva]

Today is my birthday so I'm out and about and don;t have much time. Just popped in to catch up.

Just wanted to say it's funny how the two voting me are the two I suspect of being Scum........

[Val Salva]

Bolding mine:

Originally Posted by Zeener Diode

I laid out my reasons for why I found you scummy last Night. And now you're opening your Day with a vote on me which sounds very much OMGUS-ish.

How conveeeeenient



Can you tell us why you would be willing to lynch Pizza as well? Or are you just saying that to cuddle* with Giraffe?

All in good time, my dear. All in good time

*I don't really blame anyone wanting to cuddle with Giraffe, he's a pretty handsome dude, what with that neck thing going on...

He does have a nice, long neck....

[Val Salva]

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Regarding the distinguished Val

It's getting under my skin the way she repeatedly asks me who I've protected at night. I can't protect the same person twice in a row.

If I reveal who I protect, the scum know exactly who to murder at night. The next night.

Listen I realize I look scummy, but I'm also town, and those kinds of questions can only help the scum.

I request some further scrutiny of Val Salva.



Second after her is still gnarly. But gnarly isn't asking all the wrong questions.

I welcome any investigation with open arms. I have nothing to hide.

[peekercpa]

i just don't get a claimed mason getting killled at Night. seriously, i find it hard to believe that scum would save us a mis-lynch which was eventually going to happen. primarily encouraged by me and my skepticism of ender as well as other's concurrence. the two folks i am really trying to figure out are g and polluxo.

first g because although the stars do at times align the fact that have been on the same page much of this game kind of gives me the heebies (no offense g).

second, pollux. while i fully agree with some of the observations regarding the masons it just feel staged to some extent. i mean it is such an easy default argument to make. something that scum could with all honesty post (carp, once again i agree with g). i understand po's statements but not to approach their claim with any level of skepticism until confirmation just seems odd.

there is something also about rabid and zeener that seems a tad off, as well but that can wait until later.

vote polluxo

[peekercpa]

ender: i didn't do squat. if i had it would have been neither of the two deaths. plus if i would have been in any way involved i'd be dead.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Peeker, this might seem superfluous, but can you confirm neither of the kills last night were your distinguished handiwork?



Well I could just try reading what you wrote. Bleh, nevermind!

[peekercpa]

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Peeker, this might seem superfluous, but can you confirm neither of the kills last night were your distinguished handiwork?'



Well I could just try reading what you wrote. Bleh, nevermind!

well apparantly you do your homework. as a vig i suck. the fact that i got two in the game you were third party and you were next on my list and i am one for one in this one should make every townie exceedingly nervous.

but i think i will most likely take a blue pill toNight and see what the farck happens. there are two that i am highly skeptical of. two that are making me jittery. and, of course, there is you. but i need to make sure that is not just being colored by our recent run ins and makes sense.

hey, maybe i am just an even Night killer. there's a good one for game design in the future. kind of like the even and odd investigator folks. heh heh. that ought to get the wheels turning.

[Askthepizzaguy]

peeks, given that the game is a guessing game and there's more townies than scum, everyone is a sucky vig.

A vig is still the most powerful of town roles typically. No one is going to give a crap if you hit the wrong person. You still single-handed early game bagged a scumbag power role which proved someone else's role was likely to be townie.

You make one mistake and one heroic action you're still the hero, and it's just a game. Relax. I'd request you not hit me, simply because it would be a waste of your time. I'm going to get murdered or lynched soon enough as it stands. You might take a shot at someone who isn't likely to be, but is likely to be scum in your opinion.

If you're lying and you're just an even night killer, then killing your own partner was an absurdly distinguished move. That's a queen's sacrifice for sure. If it doesn't result in checkmate I'm sure you'd be pissed, and so would your mates. Still I sincerely doubt that's what your move was. You can't have claimed remorseful, then hit a townie, and get away with it.

Speaking of our recent run-ins, why are you quieter over here than over there? I've been twice as loud as you, not so in that other game. /game irrelevant question.

I can handle your play in this game, for obvious reasons. You haven't broken it.

[peekercpa]

ah but pizza look at current game state over there. it ain't broken unless i broke it for my/our team.

and for some odd reason the games over here are much more like a long dinner with family at the holidays. while "over there" they are much more like fraternity brothers at an all you can eat buffet. i can not say which is better, they are just different. i try to respect the difference in play styles.

[peekercpa]

[oog]i played in one game on a not geeb, not idle, not dope site. there was this one person that literally had over 100 posts in the first day (48 hours). and there was well over 1,600 hundred in that first Day before i cashed out. now we all have our play styles but this crowd seems to fit my persona. sometimes i am around for days at a time. carp. sometimes rl happens and i won't be around for a week. but the crowd here and "over there" seems to be cool with it. i got modkilled on D2 because i only had 100 or so posts. go figure that shit out[/oog]

[Askthepizzaguy]

Originally Posted by peekercpa

ah but pizza look at current game state over there. it ain't broken unless i broke it for my/our team.

I just realized I opened a can of worms. I can't talk about that game.

I was just curious regarding your being quieter here.

/distinguished.

[Polluxo]

Originally Posted by Giraffe

OK, after a reread there's a lot of interesting stuff happening on Day 3. Most interesting to me:

1. People who seemed unconcerned about Wombat's and my claims of both being Town, displaying their scummy perfect information syndrome. They knew Wombat was telling the truth, and didn't want to get on board with lynching him. (Plus they wanted the Mad Bomber taken out as well.)

2. People who got outraged by the implication that maybe EnderBoy was lying with his Mason claim (I think this was mainly Polluxo) before the other Masons claimed, again not displaying the suspicion and skepticism I'd expect from Town.

I really can't win, can I? When Wombat is alive, you're convinced he's scum and that I'm his scum buddy trying to defend him. When Wombat dies and turns up town, you're still convinced I was scum and had PIS and knew both of you were town. It seems you're putting the cart before the horse: you think I'm scum and am finding reasons to paint me as scummy, instead of vice versa.

As for me not showing skepticism to a Mason claim? Seriously? So you're saying Town can't ever be sure of themselves? That they can't implicitly trust a mason claim out of the gate? Some of us go with innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent. There's a time to be skeptical, but eventually you have to trust somebody.

Originally Posted by gnarlycharlie

so your scum list includes all the players who are suspicious of you. do i need to say more?

Nehhh. Don't put words in my mouth. I'm leaning heavily towards Giraffe as Town. I just think he's terribly misguided in the way he's approaching the game. There's the possibility he's a scum bomb, but...I'm more willing to believe he's Town due to Wombat's role.

Originally Posted by Giraffe

On another topic, it's interesting that last Night was the first Night with two Town deaths. Makes me wonder if one of our inactive players is the serial killer? Inner Stickler / KidV is the most likely candidate, with Scathach a possible second.

Nehhhhhhhhh. Sometimes serial killers are compulsory. If they don't pick a candidate, their attack is randomly picked for them. And if they aren't compulsory, sometimes it's plausible they'll hold back. Say, to convince people they're a remorseful vig or something like that.

I'm starting to believe peeker is a serial killer and not a vig. He stuck in the remorseful part to keep scum from targeting him. They won't swing at him if they believe he's remorseful, because they know he won't take shots unless he's absolutely sure he'll nail scum.

Pizza, without naming names, is it plausible the person you protected Night One was a scum target? I ask because crys and wombat were both targets that don't really make sense for scum. If the scum kill was blocked Night One, that could have been peeker. Think about it: crys, FSWG, wombat, all high-profile targets that could be scum. Peeker kills them, then in the morning either lays low and pretends he didn't fire, or takes the credit for nailing another scumbag. My theory at the moment.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Originally Posted by Polluxo

Pizza, without naming names, is it plausible the person you protected Night One was a scum target? I ask because crys and wombat were both targets that don't really make sense for scum. If the scum kill was blocked Night One, that could have been peeker. Think about it: crys, FSWG, wombat, all high-profile targets that could be scum. Peeker kills them, then in the morning either lays low and pretends he didn't fire, or takes the credit for nailing another scumbag. My theory at the moment.

Now that you mention it, if you've noted the pattern of the kills, it would seem as though the mafia are intentionally avoiding hitting anyone I might have protected.

Crys, a vanilla townie.... I'd have no reason to protect.

Septimus, the detective that was NOT scanning that night, as opposed to the one that was scanning, probably thinking that I'd protect the guy who would have a scan for us in the morning... yet still a detective therefore a high priority kill....

The Day Four kills.... taking a risk and hitting a mason, yes, but still no murder of Plankton, and hitting Wombat who had some suspicion on him as a scum bomb-finder.

Basically, killing the folks that they could safely assume I would not protect.

Doctor is listed on the list of roles. They have to assume I was out there from day one, and then ever since I claimed, they've known.

Peeker, for example... Plankton. These are folks I'd be killing right away if I'm scum.

The pattern of the kills makes a whole hell of a lot more sense if you assume they're working against a doc.

And of course, they don't hit the doc, because the doc is under severe suspicion for the lynch by what, five people?



I'm being outplayed by some very distinguished scummos.

[Askthepizzaguy]

NETA

Looking over your post, I think I missed the entire point of your post.

Sorry, I got lost in my own little logic puzzle there for a moment.

No, if peeker is playing a "I kill my own buddies" strategy that backfires the moment we ask, nay, demand he murders someone else who is scum.

They can't do that forever. I don't think I can be sold on peeker being scum.

[Askthepizzaguy]

NETA II

And I have not received any message stating that any of my targets have been attacked.

If they have, I wouldn't know.

[Polluxo]

I wasn't implying peeker was scum, I don't think he is. I think he's a third-party serial killer.

Here's how I see things lining up:

N1 Scumkill - Block/Protected
N1 Peekerkill - Crys
N2 Scumkill - septimus
N2 Peekerkill - FSWG
N3 Scumkill - guiri
N3 Peekerkill - Wombat

Crys and wombat were both people high on the radar and high on people's scum suspect list. Posing as a remorseful vig, Peeker the serial killer aims for high suspicion people: if he hits right (FSWG) he claims credit. If he hits wrong (crys, wombat) he shrinks into the shadows and doesn't take credit. Or maybe crys was the scumkill and peeker didn't kill Night One to make him look more like a remorseful vig and give him credence later when he started picking off town.

It's a theory, but I feel like it's more plausible than a scum/vig/SK triangle for the simple fact that if there is an SK in addition to peeker, the kills don't really add up on previous days?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Originally Posted by Polluxo

I wasn't implying peeker was scum, I don't think he is. I think he's a third-party serial killer.

Here's how I see things lining up:

N1 Scumkill - Block/Protected
N1 Peekerkill - Crys
N2 Scumkill - septimus
N2 Peekerkill - FSWG
N3 Scumkill - guiri
N3 Peekerkill - Wombat

Crys and wombat were both people high on the radar and high on people's scum suspect list. Posing as a remorseful vig, Peeker the serial killer aims for high suspicion people: if he hits right (FSWG) he claims credit. If he hits wrong (crys, wombat) he shrinks into the shadows and doesn't take credit. Or maybe crys was the scumkill and peeker didn't kill Night One to make him look more like a remorseful vig and give him credence later when he started picking off town.

It's a theory, but I feel like it's more plausible than a scum/vig/SK triangle for the simple fact that if there is an SK in addition to peeker, the kills don't really add up on previous days?

That situation didn't even occur to me.

Okay, it's possible....

Oh peeker. Well if you're a serial killer and we're letting you live like a bunch of naive innocents, then you'd better keep killing scumbags, man.

I promise to kill you last! Distinguishedly!

[KidVermicious]

Originally Posted by Giraffe

On another topic, it's interesting that last Night was the first Night with two Town deaths. Makes me wonder if one of our inactive players is the serial killer? Inner Stickler / KidV is the most likely candidate, with Scathach a possible second.

[]vote KidV[/vote]

Sorry, KidV. I hate to lynch a sub on their first Day in, but I just don't see an active player who is a serial killer sitting on their hands for the first two Days. So if there is one, there's a good chance it's you.

Meh. I'm a little surprised that the game is on Day Four and that's the best you've got, but I can't argue the case.

[Scáthach]

Originally Posted by Polluxo

I'm starting to believe peeker is a serial killer and not a vig. He stuck in the remorseful part to keep scum from targeting him. They won't swing at him if they believe he's remorseful, because they know he won't take shots unless he's absolutely sure he'll nail scum.

This occurred to me too, but wouldn't it rely on a good deal of lying to keep up the remorseful part after he hits some town?

[Chucara]

Just checking in from work. I haven't read anything from Today yet. I will try to make some time this evening. Life happened

[peekercpa]

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

NETA

Looking over your post, I think I missed the entire point of your post.

Sorry, I got lost in my own little logic puzzle there for a moment.

No, if peeker is playing a "I kill my own buddies" strategy that backfires the moment we ask, nay, demand he murders someone else who is scum.

They can't do that forever. I don't think I can be sold on peeker being scum.

well, here's awhatiamgonnado. i'm going to go ahead and fire toNight. much like N2 i'll announce my target just before Daybreak. now if scum have a redirector that means three town deaths toNight. but i don't thinks so. otherwise i would be redirecting my ass every Night. i've played with most of you folks quite a bit and surely there is someone on the scum team that knows that if the mog gives me a gun i am going to use the durn thing. additionanlly if i was an every Night killer scum would want me alive the entire farking game.

after po's recent posts he's at the top of the hit parade if we don't lynch him toDay. he's not skeptical of a mason claim but highly skeptical of a remorseful vig claim. especially since the remorseful vig helped get the lynch on daphne going and then took out squiddly. i'd probably want to get rid of me if i were scum as well.

[peekercpa]

and his defense of the masons is really kind of comical since he was on the scum team that pulled the biggest mason bluff of all times.

[peekercpa]

neta: and by defense his seemingly blind willingness to just let it slide. carp, if kid would have followed through with naf in that game scum was hosed.

there were things that ender was saying that made me leery of his mason claim. the fact that he got his brethren/sistren to confirm each other was exculpatory. however, i still feel like at some point one of them had to go. but someone (and i just can't believe it was scum) confirmed them, in my mind. now could their be a traitor mason (ed and gettysburg), maybe. but that sure put that game into a panic. and iirc all masons were aware that there was a traitor in their midst. the fact that town decided to get rid of the two townie masons before realizing their collective fuck up was highly comical from my standpoint. of course, i was scum. i guess from a townie viewpoint, not so much.

[SisterCoyote]

Val Salva (3,2): Askthepizzaguy (11), Zeener Diode (19), penalty
Polluxo (1,1): peekercpa (30)
Inner Vermicious (1,1): Giraffe (24)
Zeener Diode (1,1): Val Salva (9)
Scathach (1,0): penalty

With these votes, Val Salva will be lynched.

ToDay ends in about three days and three hours.