Mafia newbies thread

[Vanta Black]

Some while ago, maybe back in the spring, there was talk of a game for new players. I don't know if there are any other peeps who are thinking about getting into the game but it seems like there could be.

If this new game ever materializes I guess I will have aged out, since according to some experts you're not a newbie after 3 games...but I still have lots of questions. Like, why is the current game "mountainous"?

I'm thinking this might be a good place to direct new players to resources if they're interested. I eventually found the Mafia Universe wiki that had a lot of definitions, along with links to how to play as a wolf and how to play as a villager. Not that the players in the games I was in weren't helpful, because they were.

Also it seems like some of the more seasoned players really like to rehash games they played in and discuss strategy. They could do that here!

So my questions.

1. Mountainous, why?
2. In the first game I played Mahaloth linked to a thread on the SDMB about how to improve how we play Mafia. Link immediately deteriorated, but it had some other links in it. Helpful.
3. Why is there no unspoiled watch-along thread for the current game? I'm guessing (a) because Colby doesn't want one, or (b) everybody who would be watching along is playing and gets into the spoiled thread once dead.
4. What is the longest game ever played on the Giraffe boards?

[Archangel]

1. Mountainous is a no-power game. All villagers are vanilla and all wolves are goons. It’s called “mountainous” because it’s an uphill battle to find scum without powers.

This is the only question I can answer, hope someone else chimes in.

[Vanta Black]

Ah, uphill all the way, okay. And also, valleys. Thanks!

Well, I might have found the longest game if not the longest on Giraffe. It's on Mafia Universe. It's Day 5. Day 1 started in 2015.

Now the longest one one Giraffe...

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

We kinda lost track of the idea of a game specifically for newbies sometime around when the COVID lockdowns happened. I suppose we could revive it if there's interest... what do folks think?

[Biotop]

Originally Posted by Flying Squid with Goggles

We kinda lost track of the idea of a game specifically for newbies sometime around when the COVID lockdowns happened. I suppose we could revive it if there's interest... what do folks think?

It just depends if there are newbies who want to learn. I think a lot of us would like to see more players.

[raventhief]

I've groomed the FUCK out of @TheCatsMeow and she's finally decided to join us

[raventhief]

Please be kind, she's new blood

[TheCatsMeow]

I am so excited to finally be here!

[raventhief]

Originally Posted by TheCatsMeow

I am so excited to finally be here!

Yay!

[Vanta Black]

Yay!

[raventhief]

@TheCatsMeow
It's all from love

Lol

Come join us so we can murderize you

[Pleonast]

In fact, the next game already has sign ups!
[shameless promotion] Mainframe Mafia [/shameless promotion]

1.
"Mountainous" is what some players call an vanilla-only Mafia game. "Vanilla" means a player without powers. In a vanilla-only game, no one has powers. A "powers" is a specific way for a player to break the regular rules of the game. For example an "investigation" power let's a player learn which team someone else is on. Or a "kill" power let's player remove someone else from the game.

It might seem complicated, but it's usually not. The best way to learn is to play the game.

2.
Every player will be able to tell you how to play better. But there's never a consensus about what that is. (If it looks like a consensus, someone is lying.) The best advice is to try to find how you play the game best, while keeping in mind that it's probably not how anyone else does it.

3.
It's up to each moderator about whether to start an unspoiled thread or not. Often they won't open it until someone asks them to. Some games, especially ones with lots of secrets, won't have a thread at all because of the risk of leaks.

4. Hmm, I've been part of games that went into the double-digit Days. I think I remember a Day Thirteen sometime, but that might've been the old Idle Thoughts board. (Real-life days of a game is irrelevant, in mine opinion.)

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Welcome, TheCatsMeow! We try to be friendly when we're not stabbing people in the back or deleting them from the mainframe.

We sometimes even succeed!


Seriously, though, it's good to have someone join us. We hope you like the game

[TheCatsMeow]

Can we do a newbie game soon?

[Oxirane]

I've played in more than three games, but I would really like to play in a newbie game if someone would like to mod it.

[SNFaulkner]

Originally Posted by raventhief

I've groomed the FUCK out of @TheCatsMeow and she's finally decided to join us

This is both awesome....and creepy Epsteiny sounding.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Maybe we went wrong trying to make a newbie game a big game also - to try to get a lot of people together.

Anyone interested in modding a small newbie game?

[raventhief]

Originally Posted by SNFaulkner

This is both awesome....and creepy Epsteiny sounding.

More than you bring MagicalUndues onboard?

Now watch, she's going to do the same thing, run through some games and retire undefeated lol

[Dante G]

Welcome TheCatsMeow!!

Also.. what exactly do you mean by a newbie game? You mean a basic game with no weird mechanics or rules to give the newbies a easy intro to the concepts?

[Vanta Black]

I don't even know what I mean!
But in the spring or thereabouts a newbie game was discussed. It sounded like it was coming. It never showed up. So finally I jumped in. I asked Dante if his Deadpool Detention game would be suitable for a newbie and he said it would, and I guess it was.*
With my limited experience I would say a small game with not a lot of weird game mechanics and maybe socks, so everybody doesn't do four pages of meta per day--because that's intimidating. Or anyway I thought it was. It seems unlikely that there would be a game with only newer players.
*And I'm gonna edit this post to add that it was a really fun game and that most of the players in that game were very helpful.

[Dante G]

Originally Posted by Vanta Black

I don't even know what I mean!
But in the spring or thereabouts a newbie game was discussed. It sounded like it was coming. It never showed up. So finally I jumped in. I asked Dante if his Deadpool Detention game would be suitable for a newbie and he said it would, and I guess it was.*
With my limited experience I would say a small game with not a lot of weird game mechanics and maybe socks, so everybody doesn't do four pages of meta per day--because that's intimidating. Or anyway I thought it was. It seems unlikely that there would be a game with only newer players.
*And I'm gonna edit this post to add that it was a really fun game and that most of the players in that game were very helpful.

Well, I'm glad you had a good time in my game

That might actually be a cool idea .. just do a basic game with only players that have never played or have played very little(no more than 5-7 games played before). That way you wouldn't have to worry about using socks and not worry about meta posts.

I may even be coaxed into running it if the demand was high.

[Prof. Pepperwinkle]

Dante G's ABC's of Mafia!

[Oxirane]

Originally Posted by Dante G

I may even be coaxed into running it if the demand was high.

I'd be in. I was reading Pleo's set-up, and while it looks really interesting, it's a little intimidating for the novice player. I want to get to the point where I'll be fine jumping in, but it's not right now. Unfortunately, Mafia's one of those games that you don't get better unless you play.

One of the aspects I struggle with playing Mafia (which I really like and want to become a better player) is I feel like I'm jumping right to the major leagues with zero at-bats in the minors in some of these games. I also know the majority of the players here are experienced and want the complexities of the different set-ups to stay interested. And rightfully so, they are the ones who are participating most frequently and putting in the time.

The most relaxed game so far for me was the holiday sock game (Festivus says, "Hi!" to everyone) as I could just relax and not have to worry about Oxi's meta and 'tells'...unfortunately, I was NK'd in N1, so that kinda sucked, LOL!

It'd be great to have a newbie-oriented game, but I don't want one that would bore the good players. JMHO.

[Dante G]

Just in looking at the Player List in the Google Docs - we don't have many newbies per se.

Babale, Magicalundies, Personal, Oxirane, Sunny Daze, Vanta Black and CatsMeow.


Thats not enough for a game. Maybe we can add a few more players that aren't total mafia veterans/experts.

12 players makes for a good setup.

@SNFaulkner, do you think you could get Magicalundies back?

[Oxirane]

It's an good point, Dante, but that doesn't mean other players can't play, in fact, it'd be great to have some regulars that want to play a more casual game. Maybe Days are 48 hours, Nights 24 hours, some simple roles (cop, doc, vig, I dunno, what's a simple Scum role other than the ability to NK?).

I'm pretty active on the Gweeb on the social side, and Mafia is a mystery to a bunch of those folks - we just had a whole discussion about it. It's be great to maybe introduce it some of them, and maybe we could recruit some for one game.

@raventhief, what do you think? Solfy's played before and given her familial, academic and work schedule, it might be hard, but it's worth asking. Smarty's a natural, she'd be hilarious, What's here a lot. (Granted you and he have new Mod duties, but it's worth the question.)

Zeener and Squid play occasionally as well, so maybe they could be recruited?

Again, JMHO...

EDT: One of the funniest themes in Mafia is the concept of being Scum coached - maybe we could lessen the fear of being Scum by allowing Scum to reach out to a consenting non-participating Mafia player via PM for advice. That player could not be spoiled, but would be able to offer insight. I don't know, I think I'm overthinking this...

[SNFaulkner]

Originally Posted by Dante G

Just in looking at the Player List in the Google Docs - we don't have many newbies per se.

Babale, Magicalundies, Personal, Oxirane, Sunny Daze, Vanta Black and CatsMeow.


Thats not enough for a game. Maybe we can add a few more players that aren't total mafia veterans/experts.

12 players makes for a good setup.

@SNFaulkner, do you think you could get Magicalundies back?

I'll text him. But no promises.

[Detroit Hoser]

It's like you're all speaking a foreign language that I think I can speak, but in reality I can only say, "Ist Die Post offen, Otto?" "Nein, sie ist am Samstag geschlossen," when in fact, someone just asked me if I farted.

I'm still eavesdropping, though. One of these days maybe I won't feel so intimidated.

[raventhief]

Originally Posted by Detroit Hoser

It's like you're all speaking a foreign language that I think I can speak, but in reality I can only say, "Ist Die Post offen, Otto?" "Nein, sie ist am Samstag geschlossen," when in fact, someone just asked me if I farted.

I'm still eavesdropping, though. One of these days maybe I won't feel so intimidated.

Immersion learning is a great way to learn a new language (or so I'm told)

[Vanta Black]

Originally Posted by Detroit Hoser

It's like you're all speaking a foreign language that I think I can speak, but in reality I can only say, "Ist Die Post offen, Otto?" "Nein, sie ist am Samstag geschlossen," when in fact, someone just asked me if I farted.

I'm still eavesdropping, though. One of these days maybe I won't feel so intimidated.

@Detroit Hoser, a thing I now know is that you can go to the Mafia section, go to the Dungeon, and you can see old games in their entirety.

If you go to the last Day of a game there are usually links to (a) the scum chat thread, and (b) the spoiled watch-along thread. (b) is for people who are either not in the game and not going to be, or people who were in the game and got killed, and there is commentary on the game as it's going along.

You can put these up alongside the actual game threads and get some ideas.

This is one of the things I wish I'd known before I jumped into the game, and it's not like it was a secret--but I didn't know it.

[Pleonast]

Originally Posted by Oxirane

I'd be in. I was reading Pleo's set-up, and while it looks really interesting, it's a little intimidating for the novice player. I want to get to the point where I'll be fine jumping in, but it's not right now. Unfortunately, Mafia's one of those games that you don't get better unless you play.

I don't blame any newbie players for not joining my games.

However, I think every player who signs up to my current game is going to be effectively a newbie. It's a recruitment-only game, which no one here has much (if any) experience in. In the game, scum will not have a Night kill (deaths will only be by vote or vigilante). Instead they will recruit players from the town. And scum can be unrecruited.

So, yes, it's going to be a difficult game, but one where newish players won't be at any disadvantage.

Also, my games generally give a power to every player, which can be fun.

[Vanta Black]

Originally Posted by Detroit Hoser

It's like you're all speaking a foreign language that I think I can speak, but in reality I can only say, "Ist Die Post offen, Otto?" "Nein, sie ist am Samstag geschlossen," when in fact, someone just asked me if I farted...

I didn't even know Germany had McDonalds drive-throughs.

[raventhief]

I like the idea of a PR heavy game for newbies. Straight vanilla actually showcases the way mafia is played in the presence sense, but I think I got really home when I had a watcher role or similar. I could investigate my suspects and find something right away, and I felt less useless. My very game I was a mason which meant basically nothing to me, and I got nk'd with a quickness anyway.

But I may be be much out of the norm in this respect.

[Prof. Pepperwinkle]

I'd think a newbie game should have a Doctor, a Detective and a Vigilante at least. And a Godfather for the Scum team.

[Oxirane]

Oh, crap, sorry, it's just a knee-jerk reaction...

What is the role of the Scum Godfather?

_{You'd think I'd know this given I've played several games, but...}

Asking for a friend....

[Prof. Pepperwinkle]

When a Detective looks at Scum, he gets an answer back from the Mod, saying "He's Scum." Unless it's the Godfather. In that case, he gets an answer back saying "He's Town."

It's pretty basic, but I don't think we've had a Godfather in the last several games, so there's no reason you'd know it.

[Vanta Black]

Originally Posted by Dante G

Just in looking at the Player List in the Google Docs - we don't have many newbies per se.

Babale, Magicalundies, Personal, Oxirane, Sunny Daze, Vanta Black and CatsMeow.

babale? Sunny Daze? That surprises me. But on the other hand I only just kinda got here myself so anyone who was here before I was is not "new." Unless they say so.

The game that was proposed and then never happened was back in March, it was Sister Coyote who had a 12-player game for newer players. (There's that 12 players again.) But it looks like according to the etiquette here that the current game has to finish, however long that takes, and then Pleonast's Mainframe game ha

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

We could revive such a newbie-friendly game.

Pleonast - would you have any objection if we ran a newbie-friendly game concurrently with your Mainframe Mafia game?

[Pleonast]

Originally Posted by Flying Squid with Goggles

We could revive such a newbie-friendly game.

Pleonast - would you have any objection if we ran a newbie-friendly game concurrently with your Mainframe Mafia game?

I thinking about suggesting it.

[Vanta Black]

I would play in a newbies game. I think it should be widely advertised so maybe we can get some recruits. Mafia's cool, go to Mafia school! Breadcrumbing 101. I think Lightfoot also mentioned having a new player in the works.

Also thinking about playing in the Mainframes game, because the last Pleo game I played in was a blast, even though I didn't know what I was doing.

I have to say that I thought Dante's Deadpool game was friendly in the sense that it was open (I think?). I'm not sure. In that one we knew how many bad guys we had to find and all the power roles seemed pretty straightforward but as it was my first game I can't tell if that made it easier.

But the Kung Fu game was also friendly in that we knew what all the roles were, if not how many of each. All power roles, none of them straightforward.

What exactly is an open setup as opposed to a closed setup? Is it just knowing how many of each role there is?

[Pleonast]

It's a matter of degree between open and closed set ups. The more information available to players before the game starts, the more open the set up is.

A completely open set up will include the number and message for each role. It's like playing chess--everything is known up front about the pieces on the board and what they can do. The game play will focus on figuring out which player is which role and team, because everything else is known.

In a completely closed set, players won't know anything, including their own role. The game play will focus on figuring out the rules and mechanics of the game, because nothing is known. Like trying to determine if you're playing chess or monopoly.

Most games are somewhere in between.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Originally Posted by Pleonast

I thinking about suggesting it.

Great!

I haven't seen @SisterCoyote around lately (hope she's doing well) - anyone interested in modding a newbie game? Something, maybe an open setup, with simple roles & mechanics?

[Dante G]

I'm interested in modding, sure. We will need to get enough players though. 12 atleast.

Are we going to run in same time as Pleo's? That may be a bit much.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Would it be? I was thinking that Pleonast's game (like many Pleonast games) will be complex, with an odd ruleset and strange mechanics... and probably not all that newbie-friendly. I think we might be able to run a relatively small newbie-friendly game concurrently...

I wouldn't be able to play in both, of course, but let's put some word out there about it and see what interest there is, maybe?

[Dante G]

Alright then, but we still need to wait a bit until Colby's game is over.

[The Mighty Quinn]

MU has run some newbie games in which each player is paired with an experienced mentor and allowed to discuss the game with them while it is in progress. That might be something to consider if there is enough interest.

[Archangel]

Originally Posted by The Mighty Quinn

MU has run some newbie games in which each player is paired with an experienced mentor and allowed to discuss the game with them while it is in progress. That might be something to consider if there is enough interest.

That would be fun.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

I think that sounds like an excellent idea too!

[Prof. Pepperwinkle]

It would be easier to get the necessary number of players that way.

[TheCatsMeow]

I’m ready to sign up!

[TheCatsMeow]

I ready to sign up when the newbie game is posted please tag me