I'd like to clarify something

[Liberal]

In familiarizing myself with the board, I came upon a post that quoted me from Demebo saying that "we have the best and the brightest" and that MPSIMSers had gone to the Giraffe board. The interpretation was that I was contrasting the worth and intelligence of Domebo with Giraffe.

That wasn't what I meant. I meant that we, as in the splinter boards altogether, had bled away good people from the SDMB. It was intended to be the equivalent of saying that the SDMB was losing its best and brightest. I mentioned the MPIMS thing in the context of Giraffe's early thread, inviting people to his forum.

I didn't see it for a while because I didn't go into that forum very often. My threads sank like stones there, and I was seldom engaged when I posted, so I had no reason to go there, except to check for members' announcements now and then.

As far as I know, many people are posting at both boards. Giraffe alone is certainly as smart as the rest of us put together, and so it would be silly to compare the boards in that way. I do apologize for leaving the impression that I did.

True to my curse, I managed to attract considerable drama there, particularly when I engaged a longtime foe from the old SDMB days, and when I interfered in a tussle between a troll and an admin. So, without leaving any dramatic message of goodbye, I decided that message boards are probably just not for me.

I cannot seem to write without upsetting people.

Then I saw Giraffe's blog thing. It seemed perfect for me. I can rant like the fool on the hill or the madman locked in the padded room, and I don't have to worry about responses. I even get to review them and approve the ones I like. It's a perfect resource for me. So, I've availed myself of it.

Thanks to Giraffe for providing it.

Anyway, I wanted to clear that up. If anyone is not satisfied, and wants to make a federal case out of it by parsing a bunch of text and demanding point by point explanations, I frankly don't care. I should hope that this explanation is sufficient. Thanks for listening.

[cuau]

Hi, Liberal. I just want to say I'm glad you're here.

[Borborygmi]

Liberal, as I commented in your blog, I'm glad you're here, too.

I haven't commented on it, but FTR I was one of the people who interpreted the post you mention as contrasting the two splinter boards and suggesting the Giraffe boards got the lessers. It didn't bother me personally a whole lot (after all, I'm on both boards and do not contribute anything of value: my posts are my cites), but it was probably a good idea to post this clarification.

It is also nice to see an explanation of why you haven't been on Domebo recently. Those who would worry about what might have happened to you are more likely to come across this post than the blog.

I'll agree that you seem to be a magnet for drama as a board poster, much of it avoidable. But your contributions to the boards outweigh any downside to that by a huge margin. I hope after some time away from board posting that you'll reconsider and start posting to one or more of the boards again.

[Amp]

***starts sharpening pitchforks and lighting torches***

[shamrock]

Hey, Lib, good to see ya.

Pull up a chair and hang around a while. If you piss us off we can always ask Giraffe to box you

[Contrapuntal]

It's pretty laid back here. The moderators are a bunch of ham-fisted drooling halfwits, but we have people, you know? People who keep a close eye on them. They ain't gettin' away with nuttin!

[Lungfish]

I interpreted the comment as a joke, nothing more nothing less.

[Darmund]

Hey, great idea, Lib! Let's re-ignite the bullshit fake rivalry now that everyone has forgotten about it!

Originally Posted by Liberal

I managed to attract considerable drama there,

If by "managed to attract" you mean "manufactured", then I agree.

[Giraffe]

Hey Liberal,

I'm really glad you like the blog feature. I wasn't sure anyone would find it useful -- I'm not much of a blogger myself -- but it was easy to turn on and just see what happened.

As for your clarification, well, you'll forgive me if it reads as being mostly BS. It's pretty clear that initially, you had some negative views of this board. It's not a big deal to me -- emotions run high when two sites are seen as competing, and people are bound to have preferences. But I'd rather you owned those statements instead of trying to explain them away. It would just feel more sincere to me. For my own part, I own the actions you commented upon in that link, and I make no apologies for not welcoming you, for starting a thread based on your post, or for closing said thread. It wasn't anything personal -- I welcomed hardly anyone, I clearly linked the post that triggered the thought for the thread and I thought the closing made sense.

Anyway, I didn't know how to welcome you without addressing that or being insincere, so now that that's said: welcome.

[Liberal]

Originally Posted by Giraffe

Hey Liberal,

I'm really glad you like the blog feature. I wasn't sure anyone would find it useful -- I'm not much of a blogger myself -- but it was easy to turn on and just see what happened.

As for your clarification, well, you'll forgive me if it reads as being mostly BS. It's pretty clear that initially, you had some negative views of this board. It's not a big deal to me -- emotions run high when two sites are seen as competing, and people are bound to have preferences. But I'd rather you owned those statements instead of trying to explain them away. It would just feel more sincere to me. For my own part, I own the actions you commented upon in that link, and I make no apologies for not welcoming you, for starting a thread based on your post, or for closing said thread. It wasn't anything personal -- I welcomed hardly anyone, I clearly linked the post that triggered the thought for the thread and I thought the closing made sense.

Anyway, I didn't know how to welcome you without addressing that or being insincere, so now that that's said: welcome.

Your butt looks big, but I do like the dress. Yeah, I get it. Maybe it's true what the guy said above. Maybe I manufacture the drama. But it's drama all the same. And with the number of meds I take these days, for everything from high blood pressure, to COPD, to diabetes, to OCD, to panic attacks — not to mention antacids — I could do with less drama. And thus my desire not to do what I'm doing right now.

But I just want to say that I do own what I said. The post you cited was a response to someone who was generally agitating everyone. My responses were sharp and stabbing on purpose. But I did only tell the truth, though your view of matters might be through another filter. I didn't have to post this clarification, but it was mildly therapeutic. Borborygmi says it was a good idea; you, not so much. It's a push me pull you world, and like I said, I don't think I'm cut out for it. I probably never was.

That said, I do love the blog. I'm using the custom features as well. For a long time, I've wanted to call that show out for its Fox Newsy bullshit. You've given me the opportunity to do that, and I am very grateful. To show my gratitude, I will state that I am a worthless drama queen without a single social skill. I own that. I stand by it. And I will now go back to my blog.

(Thanks again. Very much.)

Thanks to all for the tags, by the way. It's a way of throwing punches from the shadows, I guess. God I hate message boards.

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by Liberal

But I just want to say that I do own what I said. The post you cited was a response to someone who was generally agitating everyone. My responses were sharp and stabbing on purpose. But I did only tell the truth, though your view of matters might be through another filter. I didn't have to post this clarification, but it was mildly therapeutic. Borborygmi says it was a good idea; you, not so much.

To be clear, I'm not doubting the sincerity of the opinions you profess in your OP, only the (re-)interpretation you're applying to your past posts. And no doubt my perspective makes me less than impartial, so I can only speak to how things read to me, now.

And my intent in posting what I did was not to make you feel unwelcome, just to clear the air. I appreciate the spirit that moved you to start this thread, I just took exception to the (very natural and human) tendency to recast past actions more favorably than they were originally intended.

Be well, and don't let message boards get you down.

[LordVor]

Originally Posted by Liberal

Maybe I manufacture the drama.

Apparently, he's upset because 20 minutes after his first post here nobody was fawning over him, and maybe he manufactures the drama

[Andrew Jackson's Hair]

Originally Posted by LordVor

Apparently, he's upset because 20 minutes after his first post here nobody was fawning over him, and maybe he manufactures the drama

NO, dude, you don't understand. Liberal has like, 20 thousand posts on an internet message board. Ok? OK? You respect that shit, RESPEC IT

[Hot Buttered Toast]

Originally Posted by Liberal

Maybe I manufacture the drama. But it's drama all the same. And with the number of meds I take these days, for everything from high blood pressure, to COPD, to diabetes, to OCD, to panic attacks — not to mention antacids — I could do with less drama. And thus my desire not to do what I'm doing right now.

I'd echo the others and say "get a livejournal", but hey, I'm feeling helpful today.

Maybe you could take up something more restful than blogging. Something which soothes the mind, like yoga. Something which improves your motor skills, like juggling.

Something that leaves both your hands occupied so you can't type with one hand and masturbate over your own drama with the other.

[Borborygmi]

:: Catches up with thread ::

Huh... I like Lib and I'm glad he's (sorta) here, and I also like all the folks who are telling him to fuck off. Who's up for a big group hug? Anybody?

[Falcon]

Originally Posted by Liberal

Maybe I manufacture the drama. But it's drama all the same. And with the number of meds I take these days, for everything from high blood pressure, to COPD, to diabetes, to OCD, to panic attacks — not to mention antacids — I could do with less drama. And thus my desire not to do what I'm doing right now.

What about getting out of the house instead of posting on the net? Is that an option? When I'm feeling isolated, the worst place to be is the internet. Socializing online is "empty calories." It's just not satisfying if the rest of your life isn't in balance.

I understand that with multiple health problems it's easy to end up isolated, because it's hard to keep up with other people. But even going to the library to sit and read for a short period of time is better than the net. Sit near the circulation desk, where there will be lots of people milling about. Or sit outside on your front porch/stoop/whatever if getting to the library isn't possible. Just seeing other people and being away from the computer for a while is refreshing.

[Stink Fish Pot]

Originally Posted by Liberal

But I just want to say that I do own what I said. The post you cited was a response to someone who was generally agitating everyone. My responses were sharp and stabbing on purpose. But I did only tell the truth, though your view of matters might be through another filter. I didn't have to post this clarification, but it was mildly therapeutic. Borborygmi says it was a good idea; you, not so much. It's a push me pull you world, and like I said, I don't think I'm cut out for it. I probably never was.

bolding mine.

Who would have thought I was generally agitating everyone? I have that kind of power? Or was I generally agitating you because I didn't love your farewell posting on the SDMB?

Lib, honestly, I don't know you except from these boards, and I don't really give a shit about your problems. We all have problems. You have a knack for taking your problems, posting them to a board, and expect the huddled masses to pat you on the back and tell you what a swell guy you are. When we don't, you become a drama queen in quick order, attack and recoil, until the other poster gives up because they have a job to go to or a life to attend to. You always want the last post. It's like arguing with Pee Wee Herman and your only response boils down to "I know you are, but what am I?" Take the last post. It's yours with my compliments.

But I can't always ignore you or tell you what a swell guy you are.

You want nothing but attention, and all of it positive. You whine at the smallest provocation, or any negative feedback. I don't give a flying fig if you take meds or not. But if you do, take them and stay off the internet. There are some people out here that don't see the world the way you do. And that seems to bother you. Alot. And they may see the world med-free.

Personally I think you are a remarkable poster, a well-honed troll who constantly spews shit, hates to get called on it, and then whines when he does. You were the one that said the MPSIMS'ers came here, and that the other board was a better board for it. I didn't type that. And Giraffe didn't welcome you?! WAAAAH! You were personally invited to the other board? My aren't you special! (You and 1000 other people). Lib, get over yourself.

Man, I've been absent from the boards for so long I had no idea this thread was here! Why didn't someone send me an email? Why hasn't Giraffe still welcomed me? Why, why, why????

I need an avatar to boot. So much time, so little to do. Wait. Scratch that. Reverse it.

[Fish]

Jesus, Liberal, how dare you apologize? What the hell are we gonna complain about now? At least throw down a gang sign or something.

[Rebo]

Originally Posted by Contrapuntal

It's pretty laid back here. The moderators are a bunch of ham-fisted drooling halfwits, but we have people, you know? People who keep a close eye on them. They ain't gettin' away with nuttin!

Hey! I resemble that remark!

[Veb]

Originally Posted by Liberal

. Giraffe alone is certainly as smart as the rest of us put together...

Actually he's pretty much the village idiot. We're just letting him pay for the village.

[hajario]

I was going to stay out of this but I just can't let this go. Blame Veb who has been helping me find my inner child.

Here is the famous "best and brightest" post.

Money quote:

As to the MPSIMSers, they seem, in my view, to have gathered at Giraffe's board. Which makes sense, I guess, since that's where the SDMB promoted it. The people gathered here, in my opinion, are the best and brightest and wittiest from SDMB, representing a broad cross-section of abilities and expertise. I think your perceptions are skewed. You should reevaluate.

Apparently, you were the one who reevaluated and more power to you. Let's not rewrite history though.

[KidVermicious]

And so, I think that what Giraffe got was MPSIMS people who saw his thread. That forum is highly cliquish — almost every thread I've ever opened there has sunk to page 2 within minutes — and the regular MPSIMS-only posters, let's face it, aren't always exactly the best and brightest. There are some people who seldom if ever even enter the forum. I never knew Giraffe had opened his thread until I heard about it from here.

Yeah, ok. We're all from MPSIMS, and we're cliquish and elitist, which is why we're not the best and the brightest and you won't step foot in MPSIMS. Makes perfect sense, it really does, thanks for doing your best to prevent drama.



Own your own words, my ass.

[Veb]

Originally Posted by hajario

Blame Veb who has been helping me find my inner child.

I said find him, hajario. I never said you had to take the gag off the little bastid.

Originally Posted by Liberal

God I hate message boards.

:blinks:

Uh, this pretty much is, well, a message board. Even the blogs allow comments. I hope this turns out to be what you want it to be, Lib, but I have some reservations that perhaps you want it to be something it isn't.

[Liberal]

Originally Posted by TVeblen

Even the blogs allow comments.

But you can moderate them.

I hope this turns out to be what you want it to be, Lib, but I have some reservations that perhaps you want it to be something it isn't.

We'll see. I do appreciate the welcomes, and even the get-fuckeds. It's all good.

(Thanks, Giraffe.)

[Andrew Jackson's Hair]

Proposed: Liberal has to fight that pederast guy (to the death, with pictures) and the winner gets to post.

[Veb]

Originally Posted by Liberal

But you can moderate them.

:croggles in dismay:

We have to moderate the blogs?! I rarely read the blogs, especially my own. In deep weeds now, folks.

Originally Posted by grossbottom

Proposed: Liberal has to fight that pederast guy (to the death, with pictures) and the winner gets to post.

You say you're a lawyer, right?

Oh, no reason for asking. Just curious. Not convincing scientific proof of anything even if you happened to really be a lawyer anyway. Never you mind.

ETA: My dog is an excellent consoler, and she also keeps the internet running in her spare time between intensive napping, shedding and face-licking. So Seven is pretty much just a weenie.

[Victor Frankenstein]

Originally Posted by TVeblen

Uh, this pretty much is, well, a message board. Even the blogs allow comments. I hope this turns out to be what you want it to be, Lib, but I have some reservations that perhaps you want it to be something it isn't.

Maybe it is the same as when I bury dead hookers. Every time I have to dispose of one I say to myself "Myself, God I hate disposing of dead hookers",. but I keep doing it.

What?

What are you looking at?

I'm not going to let them pile up!!

[Victor Frankenstein]

Originally Posted by Liberal

So, without leaving any dramatic message of goodbye, I decided that message boards are probably just not for me.

Knowing your past history (and recent history) I'd say you are probably correct.

No big deal. Take two or three years off message boards. Get your head straight, perhaps see a counselor or therapist, and come back when you're ready. Most of us will still be around in one form or another.

In the mean time, if you want to interact online I'd recommend youtube.com. You can pretty much leave any form of written diarrhea there and no one cares.

[Contrapuntal]

Originally Posted by Seven

Get your head straight, perhaps see a consoler or therapist, and come back when you're ready.

Man, I need me one of those. Any idea where I can get one? My dogs suck at it.

[Victor Frankenstein]

Originally Posted by Contrapuntal

Man, I need me one of those. Any idea where I can get one? My dogs suck at it.

Bah. Don't needle my mis-spelling. I'm working here. Someone has to keep the internet running.

[Biggie]

Originally Posted by Seven

Take two or three years off message boards.

He can't. He's supposed to be dead by then.

[Veb]

I do rather have a problem with Lib using the place to...not debate. I'm not about to suggest rules against it :shudders: but it seems more than a bit tacky to use the place as his personal billboard. He wants a chosen audience--'Raffers--to read what he writes but he gets to pick and choose who, if anyone, gets to respond.

I'm not saying Lib can't do it. I am saying he shouldn't. That tactic is, for the lack of a better word, small. It would do him no credit and in the end I think any satisfaction he would get from even blogging that way would feel tainted to him most of all.

I sure don't wish Lib any ill at all. I hope he recovers, whatever his ailments might be. (None of which are remotely my business and I have no intention of playing the 'guess how/if he's sick' game.) I just don't think the 'Raffe board can be what he wants or needs it to be right now.

[Hi, Neighbor!]

Hey, Liberal, I get the impression that you think pretty highly of yourself. Why you would then want to be associated with people who aren't among the best and brightest is beyond me. Your apology clarification sounds like a giant "whoosh" to me. What you said in the post Giraffe linked to came off as extremely condescending.

It seems to me that you had high hopes for Domebo, bashed The Giraffe Boards thinking you'd never post here, eventually alienated yourself from Domebo, and now want to come back here to see if it's a better fit after all.

Owning your words or not, your vehement ridicule of these boards and its posters was pretty unnecessary.

[McNutty]

Originally Posted by Hi, Neighbor!

It seems to me that you had high hopes for Domebo, bashed The Giraffe Boards thinking you'd never post here, eventually alienated yourself from Domebo, and now want to come back here to see if it's a better fit after all.

I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that he's alienated himself from Domebo. In my opnion, that last unnecessary drama ended pretty amicably. I think Lib takes offense at way too much and has a bit of a persecution complex, but so what? Maybe he has to self-limit because he can't handle the responses he gets when he goes off, but he's not unwelcome. I know of one vocal moron who likes to think otherwise, but that's just noise.

And for the record, I'm obviously one of the more committed domebo folks (I volunteered my server), and I view the Giraffeboards-Domebo relationship as a "friendly rivalry." I've actually thought about posting over here to get a thread going where we can discuss some of the finer points about the technical issues behind running vb vs phpbb -- I'm curious about backend issues like web server loads and bandwidth. I doubt either board is in a position to invest a lot in infrastructure, so we would probably both benefit from open discussions of perf tweaking etc.

[Roo]

Originally Posted by McNutty

I've actually thought about posting over here to get a thread going where we can discuss some of the finer points about the technical issues behind running vb vs phpbb -- I'm curious about backend issues like web server loads and bandwidth.

You'll want to talk with Seven. He probably knows more about this.

Of course, you could start a thread and have other people discuss, but if you just want to talk to Seven, you could send him visitor messages and have others join in as well. Just a thought.

[BlueBlazes]

But if he just talked to Seven, how would everybody else see the links to domebo and hear about what a cool place it is?

Yeah, I know, I'm a cynical old bastard. Just file it under 'friendly rivalry'.

[hajario]

I wouldn't call it a "friendly rivalry" because I don't think there's all that much of a rivalry except in the minds of a very few. It's certainly friendly between us but then it's not like we have any enemies anywhere else either.

[Roo]

Originally Posted by BlueBlazes

But if he just talked to Seven, how would everybody else see the links to domebo and hear about what a cool place it is?

Hmm. Wasn't thinking of that. He could start a thread with the title 'domebo is the most awesome place' and link to it. I'm just thinking that geeky technobabble about how the back end of the software works just isn't going to attract the masses. But you never know.

[McNutty]

Originally Posted by BlueBlazes

But if he just talked to Seven, how would everybody else see the links to domebo and hear about what a cool place it is?

Yeah, I know, I'm a cynical old bastard. Just file it under 'friendly rivalry'.

If you're accusing me of something, I invite you to do a search and read every single one of my posts here to look for links and/or claims of how cool the other board is, and then come back and admit that there are none.

[Victor Frankenstein]

Ok, enough joking.

Liberal. We have a good thing going here. People have been good, we have some nice threads running, we have a couple jokers to make fun of, and everything is looking up.

I plead with you,. please don't hang around.

You are established at the dope. You are at Domebo. Just leave well enough alone.

I'm not trying to be an asshole but your manufactured drama is distracting and disruptive.

If you REALLY want to post here but would like to preserve the good nature of the board, give me the word and I will start a campaign to promote you as moderator of the box. I think this would be an excellent role for you. You can moderate and post in your very own forum and the handful of people who like you can stop by for a visit.

Think about that for a second. Your very own forum!!

[Fenris]

Y'know what's a bad idea?

Burning your bridges behind you.

Y'know what's worse?

Burning your bridges ahead of you.

Quote

A couple things do bother me about Giraffe's site, though. The rather weird approval of SDMB staff gives the impression that establishing the board might have been a tactic. In other words — and I know Giraffe wouldn't do this, it's just the appearance of the thing — mollify the malcontents by giving them a separate, but very friendly, place to have their rhetorical bowel movements. That way, they remain loyal to SDMB but do not sully its pages.

But the other thing is the attitude of the posters there, describing us in rather dismissive and parochial terms. They say they're the grown-ups and we're the teenagers. Interesting.

So I vote that if there is a merger, our own CRSP should be in charge. He has demonstrated considerable leadership ability. I feel good about him. I think he'll take care of the place and make it a good place for us.

and

I sure do like Giraffe, but I'm not really interested in helping Ed to further his agenda — whatever the hell it may be. So I'm not really looking for a "partner site" where I can post from time to time when I'm not doing Ed's bidding.

Besides, we've had that forever. It's called "Fabulous Forums of Fathom".

So...joining a "partner site" and "furthering Ed's agenda" by posting with the "malcontents" is ok now? If it was just the one post that was quoted above, that'd be one thing. But there was post after post from you about how we suck. And now, here you are, now that you've made yourself unwelcome at another board (and nice shot at Fathom, by the way. I remember how they took you in once too).

[whirlingbladesofkick]

I think some of the tags are ridiculous and offensive and I'm not proud to be here right about now.

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by misshannah

I think some of the tags are ridiculous and offensive and I'm not proud to be here right about now.

I agree, some of them are pretty obnoxious. For now, let's just remember that they are not a reflection of the opinion of the board as a whole, but only the anonymous comments of as few as one person.

[jdr]

Originally Posted by hajario

I didn't even realize until just a little bit ago that tags were anonymous. It is a little troubling, I agree. However, since it's anonymous, you don't know for sure that the same people who said that he has to "own words" also added the rude comments. Maybe it's just because I have Mod powers but I can add a tag without even posting to the thread.

I take this to mean tags are anonymous for mods too? I figured you guys had the ability to see who added which tags to threads, similar to the way you can see what our edits are.

Someone upthread said all the tags could be from one person. According to the tagging editor, I'm only allowed to add two tags per thread, so it had to be several people. Either that or I'm being singled out and oppressed.

As for the subject, I think the advice about not burning bridges is good. It's clear that that's what was done, but it's in the past so welcome, if you decide to stay. It takes all kinds.

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by jdr

I take this to mean tags are anonymous for mods too? I figured you guys had the ability to see who added which tags to threads, similar to the way you can see what our edits are.

Someone upthread said all the tags could be from one person. According to the tagging editor, I'm only allowed to add two tags per thread, so it had to be several people. Either that or I'm being singled out and oppressed.

Yep, tags are anonymous for everyone, including mods. And I didn't know that about the two tag limit (I've only ever added one tag at a time) -- that's good to know.

[Seeker of Truth & Beauty]

Originally Posted by Giraffe

Yep, tags are anonymous for everyone, including mods. And I didn't know that about the two tag limit (I've only ever added one tag at a time) -- that's good to know.

However, the OP can add five.

[hajario]

As a Moderator, I can uncheck tags but I can't see them after they've been unchecked. (Check that again, G, after refreshing, I can't see the unchecked ones anymore. I took one out and had to re-enter it by hand.) I can add as many tags as I want up to the max limit of 25 for a thread. So since there are fifteen there now, I can only add ten more. Finally, I have no way of knowing who added what tags. Admins might have more powers.

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by hajario

As a Moderator, I can uncheck tags but I can't see them after they've been unchecked. (Check that again, G, after refreshing, I can't see the unchecked ones anymore. I took one out and had to re-enter it by hand.) I can add as many tags as I want up to the max limit of 25 for a thread. So since there are fifteen there now, I can only add ten more. Finally, I have no way of knowing who added what tags. Admins might have more powers.

No, you're right. I assumed that because it was checkboxes that they'd keep them around, unchecked. I was wrong.

(dramatic pause)

Dead wrong.

[Fish]

We should be better than the tags that are on this thread. As long as the tags are applied anonymously, they will probably be used as a way to issue insults which cannot be traced.

I can't believe anybody here would subscribe to the notion that Liberal must "own his words" but attach insulting tags under cover of anonymity.

[hajario]

Originally Posted by Fish

I can't believe anybody here would subscribe to the notion that Liberal must "own his words" but attach insulting tags under cover of anonymity.

I didn't even realize until just a little bit ago that tags were anonymous. It is a little troubling, I agree. However, since it's anonymous, you don't know for sure that the same people who said that he has to "own words" also added the rude comments. Maybe it's just because I have Mod powers but I can add a tag without even posting to the thread.