Who is the Asshole Here?

[Contrapuntal]

Originally Posted by Ibn Warraq

I don't know where you live, but where I live, had I decided to tailgate for several miles an abortion doctor, follow her out of her car, and get within an arm's reach of her with my video camera, call her a bitch, and shove her, I'd have been arrested.

There wasn't any tailgating, the guy with the gun was the first one out of the car, the videographer shoved no one, the name calling was started by the hunter, and he was only shoved in defense of the female videographer. Aside from that, your analogy is spot on, except for leaving out the part where the abortion doctor threatens the protesters with lethal force.

I'm pretty sure that if I challenged someone who was following me, called him a motherfucker, punched a camera person, and pulled and cocked a loaded weapon and threatened to shoot, I would be arrested as well.

[Colonel Plink]

I'm no fan of "Canned Hunts" or "Animal Right Activists" either one.
Those pigeon shoots aren't my idea of hunting. You want to kill an animal? Go find that animal in its natural habitat. Prairie Dog shooting, for instance.

[Ibn Warraq]

Originally Posted by Contrapuntal

There wasn't any tailgating, the guy with the gun was the first one out of the car, the videographer shoved no one, the name calling was started by the hunter, and he was only shoved in defense of the female videographer. Aside from that, your analogy is spot on, except for leaving out the part where the abortion doctor threatens the protesters with lethal force.

I'm pretty sure that if I challenged someone who was following me, called him a motherfucker, punched a camera person, and pulled and cocked a loaded weapon and threatened to shoot, I would be arrested as well.

There's no question the gun guy behaved like an asshole, but the courts clearly disagreed with you since they decided the AR guy and videographer were guilty of harassment and disorderly conduct.

It's also worth noting that the courts had a lot more information about the case than we are, who are essentially left with nothing other than a somewhat selective video put out by AR people and their own unsubstantiated claims.

And yes, having worked with pro-choice forces in Minnesota in the 90s, yes if pro-life protestors had been following around an abortion provider like that trying to deliberately provoke them into over-reacting and shoving a video camera right into their fact to point that the could shove it out of the way, then yes, they'd have been charged with harassment and had restraining orders slapped on them.

And as far as it goes, having heard enough stories about Buck Williams, the only doctor then performing abortions in South Dakota, who always went armed with a handgun and a bullet-proof vest, I can say that yes, he would have confronted them if they were following him, though he wouldn't have started using confrontational language, and yes, if someone had run up to him and shoved a video camera within a foot from his face, while he was have a shouting match with someone who'd been stalking him, yes he'd have shoved the camera out of his face.

I'd like to think he wouldn't have pulled his gun if he'd been punched or shoved while in the midst of such a confrontation, but I can't say for certain, though I don't think for two seconds he'd have ordered them onto the ground.

That said, he certainly had reason to be afraid and he was also, IMHO, a hero.

[welby]

Originally Posted by Ibn Warraq

trying to deliberately provoke them into over-reacting and shoving a video camera right into their fact to point that the could shove it out of the way

I guess this is why I sided with the hunter first. I've looked at several other of their videos and can agree that the hunters aren't really "hunting" so much as engaging in masturbatory slaughter.....BUT the SHARK activists are generally nasty, mocking, and routinely seek to provoke a negative reaction.

I don't care what the cause is - if you try to provoke someone, don't whine when you succeed.

[-FX-]

Drones for everyone!

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/te...pagewanted=all