Government Shutdown

[rayh]

Originally Posted by ryevermouthbitters

You people actually engaging Brian in argument are every bit as stupid as he is.

I am not arguing with Brian for his sake, I am arguing for other people's sake.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Zeener Diode

So it's okay to deny a soldier, serving their country, the right to worship?

All religion is evil, according to many here and at the Durp. Why shouldn't the religious be denied funding?

[Zeener Diode]

Originally Posted by ryevermouthbitters

You people actually engaging Brian in argument are every bit as stupid as he is.

I've battled KenDio and walked away with a headache.

This time I have aspirin.

[Zeener Diode]

Originally Posted by Brian

All religion is evil, according to many here and at the Durp. Why shouldn't they be denied funding?

You haven't answered my question: Should soldiers be denied their constitutional right to worship?

[Lounsbury]

Argument Clinic.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Zeener Diode

You haven't answered my question: Should soldiers be denied their constitutional right to worship?

No. The government shouldn't fund it, though.

[Zeener Diode]

Originally Posted by Brian

No.

I apologize for derailing this topic.

[eleanorigby]

You couldn't parody this.

[rayh]

Originally Posted by Brian

No. The government shouldn't fund it, though.

Except you are confusing what the government chooses to do with what the government has to do, or is prevented from doing. We has established that the government is not prevented from providing religious services to military personnel who want them, although it is not required to do so, that it chooses to a different argument, and one you haven't made.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by rayh

Except you are confusing what the government chooses to do with what the government has to do, or is prevented from doing. We has established that the government is not prevented from providing religious services to military personnel who want them, although it is not required to do so, that it chooses to a different argument, and one you haven't made.

No, the government is prevented from providing religious services, according to the ACLU and their ilk. Hence the lawsuits against Crosses, crèches, and the Ten Commandments on government property, or even prayers at the start of City Council meetings. Why do military chaplains get a break?

[Argument Clinic]

Originally Posted by Lounsbury

Argument Clinic.

Here and accounted for

Originally Posted by ryevermouthbitters

You people actually engaging Brian in argument are every bit as stupid as he is.

No they're not.

[Argument Clinic]

Originally Posted by Brian

No, the government is prevented from providing religious services, according to the ACLU and their ilk. Hence the lawsuits against Crosses, crèches, and the Ten Commandments on government property, or even prayers at the start of City Council meetings. Why do military chaplains get a break?

No they aren't and no they don't.

[Random Precision]

Originally Posted by Brian

No, the government is prevented from providing religious services, according to the ACLU and their ilk. Hence the lawsuits against Crosses, crèches, and the Ten Commandments on government property, or even prayers at the start of City Council meetings. Why do military chaplains get a break?

This is incorrect. The government is prohibited from promoting one religion over another or from requiring its citizens to promote or practice a specific religion.

Thus requiring the public to fund displays promoting a specific religion, Christianity to example, or to appear to endorse a specific religion by allowing its display on public property is unconstitutional.

Clear?

[Zeener Diode]

Originally Posted by Argument Clinic

Here and accounted for

No they're not.

That's not an argument. You're simply contradicting everything said.

[Muffin]

Brain for Congressional House of Representatives in 2014!

[Zeener Diode]

Originally Posted by Muffin

Brain for Congressional House of Representatives in 2014!

He could represent the 2nd District of Kansas, where the Westboro Baptist Church is located.

[Argument Clinic]

Originally Posted by Zeener Diode

That's not an argument. You're simply contradicting everything said.

Certainly am not, some things I have not contradicted at all.

[Cardinal Ximinez]

Originally Posted by Argument Clinic

Certainly am not, some things I have not contradicted at all.

Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnobody expects the Argument Clinic!

[Chacoguy]

Originally Posted by Zeener Diode

He could represent the 2nd District of Kansas, where the Westboro Baptist Church is located.

Scene of a recent porn shoot.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Muffin

Brain for Congressional House of Representatives in 2014!

oh, yeah, 2nd grade again.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Random Precision

This is incorrect. The government is prohibited from promoting one religion over another or from requiring its citizens to promote or practice a specific religion.

Thus requiring the public to fund displays promoting a specific religion, Christianity to example, or to appear to endorse a specific religion by allowing its display on public property is unconstitutional.

Clear?

No, you dipshit. A military chaplain that caters to Christian soldiers is OK, but a Christian prayer to open Congress is not? You can't have it both ways.

[mswas]

Originally Posted by Brian

No, you dipshit. A military chaplain that caters to Christian soldiers is OK, but a Christian prayer to open Congress is not? You can't have it both ways.

While we all know you love to have it both ways when it comes to the military, I agree with you on this one.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by mswas

While we all know you love to have it both ways when it comes to the military, I agree with you on this one.

mswas is being reasonable. You should encourage your fellow travelers to do the same.

[Atalanta]

I went for a trail run today in a national park. It was closed because of the furlough.

Made me sad.

[Argument Clinic]

Originally Posted by Cardinal Ximinez

Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnobody expects the Argument Clinic!

Not at all. Somebody does.

[Argument Clinic]

Originally Posted by Brian

No, you dipshit. A military chaplain that caters to Christian soldiers is OK, but a Christian prayer to open Congress is not? You can't have it both ways.

Yes you can. They're not the same thing.

[rayh]

Originally Posted by Brian

No, you dipshit. A military chaplain that caters to Christian soldiers is OK, but a Christian prayer to open Congress is not? You can't have it both ways.

You do realise the military has non-christian chaplains?

Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_chaplains

Chaplains in the United States, like all U.S. military officers, take an oath to protect and defend the constitution, which includes the right of religious free exercise. Chaplains are expected to support the rights of personnel of all faiths to their "free exercise of religion," while maintaining their own personal right to disagree with the beliefs of others.

[Random Precision]

Originally Posted by mswas

While we all know you love to have it both ways when it comes to the military, I agree with you on this one.

If the soldiers were required to attend Christian services, that would not be okay.

If the Christian members of Congress wished to have a minister say a prayer for them separately, not as a part of the official business of Congress, that would be OK.

Frankly, I have very little expectation that either of you will understand why they are different.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by rayh

You do realise the military has non-christian chaplains?

Why are they funding chaplains, at all? The could be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or Buddhist. Why the federal funding?

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Random Precision

If the Christian members of Congress wished to have a minister say a prayer for them separately, not as a part of the official business of Congress, that would be OK.

The Christian members of Congress don't have a separate prayer, it's before the full House. I saw it on C-SPAN, just the other day.

[Random Precision]

Originally Posted by Brian

Why are they funding chaplains, at all? The could be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or Buddhist. Why the federal funding?

Because there are damned few Baptist churches or Jewish synagogues in Afghanistan. And volunteering for the military does not strip you of your rights under the Constitution with a few exceptions which are covered under the UCMJ.

[Veb]

Originally Posted by Brian

Why are they funding chaplains, at all? The could be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or Buddhist. Why the federal funding?

Well Brian, could be because many military personnel live where the military tell them to and, gee, some of 'em even go into combat. You know, where they can get shot and die and shit? So they're enforced to live far from home, by on military schedules, as their duty requires, so many of them can't really just toodle off to religious services if they choose. So the military provides that for them, not the least because civilian chaplains don't tend to hang out on battlefields to comfort the dying. Or even just scared, lonely young people who are in an alien environment. Think of them as PXs for the inner soldier: a rare convenience for those who might find them useful.

Besides, they love squandering your, Brian's, hard-earned tax dollars because they're just selfish and pampered like that.

[JackieLikesVariety]

Originally Posted by Brian

You're wrong, again. Leftists People have sued the government over crosses, crèches, and Christmas trees on public property. The phrase "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. Same with prayers opening Congress or City Council meetings. But providing religious services to the military? Ok, because, military. The hypocrisy is astounding.

every time I forget to skip past your posts and actually read one I regret it.

have a lemon

[Atalanta]

Originally Posted by Brian

Why are they funding chaplains, at all? The could be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or Buddhist. Why the federal funding?

VAs employ clergy of many denominations and they are overseen by mental health. As with physicians, many people feel more comfortable going to a chaplain than a psychologist. If Veterans are seeking mental health care through a qualified professional who is supervised, who cares if it is a chaplain?

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by Brian

Why are they funding chaplains, at all? The could be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or Buddhist. Why the federal funding?

But the military chaplains ARE ecumenical. I am constantly astonished by your ignorance, Brian. EcumenicalMilitaryChaplains
And your ranting about religion + military was settled in 1999 (see the above linked Wikipedia piece).

Chaplain does not mean Christian: Chaplain in modern usage.

[mswas]

Originally Posted by Random Precision

If the soldiers were required to attend Christian services, that would not be okay.

If the Christian members of Congress wished to have a minister say a prayer for them separately, not as a part of the official business of Congress, that would be OK.

Frankly, I have very little expectation that either of you will understand why they are different.

LOL, i like that you have to insult our intelligence just because the arbitrary place where we choose to draw the line isn't the same as the arbitrary place you draw the line.

I would prefer to allow any religion that feels the need to have a prayer before Congress. And I would prefer to allow there to be chaplains, imams, etc... in the military.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by mswas

LOL, i like that you have to insult our intelligence just because the arbitrary place where we choose to draw the line isn't the same as the arbitrary place you draw the line.

I would prefer to allow any religion that feels the need to have a prayer before Congress. And I would prefer to allow there to be chaplains, imams, etc... in the military.

Once again, mswas is being reasonable. Too bad the rest of you can't take the hint.

[Glazer]

Chaplain's provide at least one crucial non religious service. One which would be hard to replicate by anyone else. When a Service Member has a problem in which through feel they cannot go through their chain of command. They can go to a Chaplin and feel comfortable that it will be handled with discretion. I had a suicidal roommate while I was in the Army. Had I went through the COC it would have ruined his life even more. After going to the Chaplin He was able to talk to him (my roomy) and arrange for counseling and eventual return home without charges or a dishonorable discharge. There are many situations where a neutral third party that no one would question your wanting to see them is just the thing. Ask to see a lawyer and every one is going to want to know why. Ask to see the Chaplin and it can be kept on the down low.

[rayh]

Originally Posted by Brian

Why are they funding chaplains, at all? The could be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or Buddhist. Why the federal funding?

From the previous cite - In 1999, Rabbi Arnold E. Resnicoff, a US chaplain, proposed widening the chaplain's role to include that of engagement with local religious leaders in conflict zones to improve the military's understanding of local religious issues and include chaplains in the conflict prevention and reconciliation processes.[10] This outreach is part of the duties listed for chaplains in Joint Publication 1-05 on chaplain operations

[Brian]

Originally Posted by rayh

From the previous cite - In 1999, Rabbi Arnold E. Resnicoff, a US chaplain, proposed widening the chaplain's role to include that of engagement with local religious leaders in conflict zones to improve the military's understanding of local religious issues and include chaplains in the conflict prevention and reconciliation processes.[10] This outreach is part of the duties listed for chaplains in Joint Publication 1-05 on chaplain operations

Can you put any more buzz words in one post? Engagement, reconciliation, outreach? Are you nuts?

[rayh]

Engagement is a buzzword? Reconciliation? And I'm nuts?!?!?!

[Brian]

Originally Posted by rayh

Engagement is a buzzword? Reconciliation? And I'm nuts?!?!?!

Yeah, they kinda are. This isn't the 80's or 90's.

[Glazer]

It was when the Rabbi proposed it.

[Chacoguy]

Originally Posted by Glazer

Chaplain's provide at least one crucial non religious service. One which would be hard to replicate by anyone else. When a Service Member has a problem in which through feel they cannot go through their chain of command. They can go to a Chaplin and feel comfortable that it will be handled with discretion. I had a suicidal roommate while I was in the Army. Had I went through the COC it would have ruined his life even more. After going to the Chaplin He was able to talk to him (my roomy) and arrange for counseling and eventual return home without charges or a dishonorable discharge. There are many situations where a neutral third party that no one would question your wanting to see them is just the thing. Ask to see a lawyer and every one is going to want to know why. Ask to see the Chaplin and it can be kept on the down low.

I knew he would ignore this.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Chacoguy

I knew he would ignore this.

I generally ignore stupid things like "chaplins". Spell check is your friend. Wasn't there a little red underline when you typed it? Why did you post it? English is not that hard.

[Glazer]

You got me. That completely invalidates anything I had to say. I'll go crawl back into my hole.

[Kat]

Yes, yes. One misspelling negates the entire post!

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Glazer

You got me. That completely invalidates anything I had to say. I'll go crawl back into my hole.

No, I'm serious. You said "Chaplin" at least three times. Spell-check would have corrected it. Why didn't you fix it?

[Glazer]

Because Chaplin is a proper noun. My spell check allows proper nouns.

[Muffin]

Originally Posted by Brian

Spell check is your friend. Wasn't there a little red underline when you typed it? Why did you post it? English is not that hard.

.

Originally Posted by Scissorjack

B-R-I-A-N!
THAT'S THE WAY YOU SPELL BRIAN!
GO BRIAN! GO BRIAN!

::high kicks::