The 2016 Presidential Campaign

[JackieLikesVariety]

I am listening right now - classy speech. of course.

[NAF1138]

My sister in law and her husband had been planning to move back to Australia. He is from their and sold a tech startup and has bucks and wanted to go home.

After the election they have changed their minds. He has decided to dedicate his money to fighting to fix America.

Me, I took the day off work and am going to go see Doctor Strange.

When I get home I'm going to figure out how to get involved in activism too. They won by being angry. I want to help fix that.

We are having a crisis and we need people to reach out.

[Veb]

Originally Posted by Inner Stickler

Given that most of his What means unconstitutional or not within the power of the executive branch when the republicans control all three branches of government? Hapless tatters? No, the republican party has proven quite definitively that the one thing it is not is hopelessly fractured.

The party of racists and nazi sympathizers has america by the throat and they're just warming up.

I have to disagree. The GOP is in a colossal mess of their own making. They created a cosy petri dish for anti-government fanatics like Cruz, etc. Now the monster they created has all but eaten its creator. For at least a decade or more the GOP has been much more about ideological purity than actually getting anything done. They've been in an unholy race to prove who was the most doctrinally conservative.

Unfortunately Trump isn't even a conservative. Hell, until a few years ago he was a registered Democrat. He's a third party candidate who managed to hijack one of the major parties. The clueless asshole doesn't even have an ideology per se. He sure doesn't hold with much, if any, of the conservative pieties so dear to the GOP. So now Republicans are in the risible position of flunkies scrambling to figure out what the hell the new boss wants.

Make no mistake: Trump's vicious brand of populism just rolled a hand grenade right through the GOP too. Trump's message always boiled down to a big "fuck you" to Washington and anybody he perceived as the elites. The big question is how far the confused congressional sheep will be willing to go when Trump revs up with some of his noxious campaign promises: deportation squads, IDs for Muslims, tax cuts that all economists project would add trillions to the national debt, that asinine wall that not even southwestern border states want, etc. It doesn't help that The Asshole is notoriously thin-skinned and sees treachery in anything less than slavish devotion. The GOP congresscritters aren't in an enviable position either.

[Rat Diva]

Originally Posted by DoubleJ

If you think that you haven't been paying attention. Everything that goes wrong for Trump is always someone else's fault. The more he flails against "the establishment" the more his group of rubes will support him. And that's assuming that he flails and fails at all. I give it until the end of the week before the Republicans, both established and newly-elected, are lining up to kiss his ass. Best we can hope for is an Obama recess appointment so the Supreme Court has one unfucked year, then for a grown-up to win in 2020 so Bader-Ginsburg can retire.

Actually, that was just a happy little daydream which is preferable to the truth, which is that I really don't know what's going to happen over the next 4 years. I will, however, be switching to Democrat and keeping an eye on local and state elections and the next midterms, and hoping like crazy that both parties have learned some very important lessons.

[Inner Stickler]

Veb, I want to believe what you say is true so much. And yet, when I turn on the tv and see michigan and gd wisconsin go republican, that does not say to me dying throes of a party on the verge of irreparable schisms.

[Nonny J. Nonnington III]

Originally Posted by Inner Stickler

The party of racists and nazi sympathizers has america by the throat and they're just warming up.

I cringed when HRC talked about the "basket full of deplorables" and this makes me cringe a bit as well. Sure, the whole David Duke support was coming from a despicable place, and Trump was mighty slow in disavowing him. But there are a lot of honest and hardworking people who supported Trump. I happen to believe that they were voting against their own interests, but clearly they disagree with that. Not that I really believe that their voting for Clinton would have been voting for their own interests...

[AuntiePam]

That Hillary won the popular vote gives me hope. Will Congressional Republicans think they have a mandate, that they'll fall in line with Trump's proposals? I don't think they will.

I see Trump failing with his more egregious proposals and a Democratic resurgence in the mid-terms.

[Solfy]

I remember when Obama was elected the first time. A conservative coworker changed her Christmas wish list from a laptop to a handgun, because, "Once Obama takes office, we won't be able to buy them anymore."

My last thought before going to bed last night was, "Fuck. Better get a ceiling up in the kitchen fast so we can refinance the house before the economy slides into the shitter." I hope I end up being as wrong as that coworker.

[Inner Stickler]

Originally Posted by Nonny J. Nonnington III

But there are a lot of honest and hardworking people who supported Trump.

who was endorsed by the KKK. Their vote, whether they realized it or not has given America's imprimatur to being racist, sexist, homophobic and xenophobic.

[Rat Diva]

I don't think the red states are anything to do with the Republican Party in and of itself. It had to do with working class whites hearing what they wanted to hear: "I've had it with lying politicians as business as usual, just like you. I'll give you jobs. I'll block the brown people out so they can't steal your jobs anymore. I'll make the scary ones in headscarves go away you so you don't have to be afraid of them. I'll fix it so you don't have to pay for some layabout goodfornothing who never worked a day in their life to have health insurance when you punch a time clock every day and no one ever helped you, amirite? I'll make America great again for people like you and fuck the rest!!!!!"

He's the consummate salesman. He sold it. They bought it. Clinton didn't have the charisma to counter it, especially with Benghazi and the email scandals dogging her steps.

[Rat Diva]

Originally Posted by NAF1138

When I get home I'm going to figure out how to get involved in activism too. They won by being angry. I want to help fix that.

We are having a crisis and we need people to reach out.

[Andrew Jackson's Hair]

Originally Posted by Andrew Jackson's Hair

Conservatives aren't voting for Trump. Angry people are, and his numbers on independents and converting democrats are off the charts. And although I've said it before, I'll just say it again. When Trump squares off with Hillary, she will be crushed. This isn't a conservative vs. liberal issue, and attempts to frame it like that will just set liberals up for the same shocking results the GOP is presently experiencing.

Maybe some idiots "believe" in Trump, but I suspect the majority of his voters just believe he will take a gridlocked Congress, and a crowd of partisan careerists on both sides, and speed them straight to hell.

From March 16, 2016.

[Chacoguy]

The Straight to Hell part is spot on.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

It does conveniently ignore that more people voted for Hillary, though.

So far, as of 10 AM Pacific, Nov. 9th:

59,591,635 votes (47.7%) for Clinton

59,355,496 votes (47.5%) for Trump


He did mobilize people, but he didn't need to mobilize more people than Clinton, and geography and political history play more of a role here than sheer popularity.

[Nonny J. Nonnington III]

Originally Posted by Inner Stickler

who was endorsed by the KKK.

True. And he waffled for too long in rejecting their support. But I doubt that Latinos or Afro-Americans who voted for Trump did so out of racism or xenophobia. And Trump is probably one of the more LGBT friendly Republicans who ran for the nomination.

I was a very vocal anti-war advocate in the '70s. The people who bombed public buildings were also anti-war. It doesn't mean that I endorsed their homicides, or that I felt that being anti-war legitimized that sort of activity. There are always assholes on either side of an issue.

[Lungfish]

The is clip from Planet of Apes sums up my reaction to the result: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvuM3DjvYf0

[NAF1138]

Originally Posted by Nonny J. Nonnington III

True. And he waffled for too long in rejecting their support. But I doubt that Latinos or Afro-Americans who voted for Trump did so out of racism or xenophobia. And Trump is probably one of the more LGBT friendly Republicans who ran for the nomination.

I was a very vocal anti-war advocate in the '70s. The people who bombed public buildings were also anti-war. It doesn't mean that I endorsed their homicides, or that I felt that being anti-war legitimized that sort of activity. There are always assholes on either side of an issue.

This. This is so important.

If we focus on the hate groups that were the most loud we miss reality. Reality is 50% of the population liked what he had to say enough to give him a shot. 50% thought that things were worse today that 8 years ago. As liberals we need to really really internalize that. If we can't we will continue to fail.

[NAF1138]

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/s4jjd1...ump-presidency

This interview sums up a lot about how I feel right now. Recorded before the results were all in.

[Anacanapuna]

Originally Posted by Nonny J. Nonnington III

I cringed when HRC talked about the "basket full of deplorables" and this makes me cringe a bit as well.

The Democrats -- or I should say "we Democrats" -- need a street fighter. You know, a party machine, unionized, working-class thug in the mold of Richard Daley. We need somebody who's not afraid to put on the brass knuckles and knock out a few teeth. Metaphorically, of course. And it shames me to no end to say that I have no idea whether my party has anyone like that.

I didn't cringe when Hillary called that crowd a "basket of deplorables." I cringed when she walked it back.

[SmartAleq]

But the Democratic party has made it very clear they don't want the unions--because corporations don't want unions. They won't fight against TPP and other "free trade agreements" no matter how deleterious they might be to working class people--because multinational corporations want them. They won't fight against climate change or for alternative energy sources--because the oil and gas industry pays their bills. The fact that most ordinary, working class Americans would actually prefer strong unions (assuming it's possible to reverse the programming that "unions r bad!!") and don't want "free trade agreements" that offshore their jobs and think it's pretty fucking important to stop screwing with the global climate (and would maybe like the lower energy bills inherent in renewables, not to mention a nice clean job installing solar panels instead of being stuffed down the mineshaft every day) simply doesn't even cause a blip on the radar of your typical elitist party apparatchik. We're such children, we don't know what we want, y'see.

Well, maybe the gargoyles taking over the cathedral might at least clue a few of them in that you can't recreate an eerily accurate version of Dickens' London nationwide and ratchet up the misery endlessly without at least throwing a few bones to keep the animals quiet. They used to understand this but have gotten pretty complacent that they can do whatever they want and we'll just shut up and take it. Yeah, not so much.

As for party affiliation, I think it might be strategically sound NOT to register with any party. Just go independent, keep 'em guessing about what you're for or against and make the fuckers work to woo you. Don't give them any semblance of security, no assurances that they have ANY constituency they can "count on." Because these days "count on" actually translates as "bully into anything." They're monstrously complacent and that needs to change bigtime. It's like people who have pet tigers, they're so sure that Fwuffy wuvs them that they lose sight of the fact that they're made of meat--you don't wanna be late with Fwuffy's dinner or you might have to find out the hard way just how much your pet "loves" you.

[Anacanapuna]

Originally Posted by SmartAleq

But the Democratic party has made it very clear they don't want the unions--because corporations don't want unions. They won't fight against TPP and other "free trade agreements" no matter how deleterious they might be to working class people--because multinational corporations want them. They won't fight against climate change or for alternative energy sources--because the oil and gas industry pays their bills. The fact that most ordinary, working class Americans would actually prefer strong unions (assuming it's possible to reverse the programming that "unions r bad!!") and don't want "free trade agreements" that offshore their jobs and think it's pretty fucking important to stop screwing with the global climate (and would maybe like the lower energy bills inherent in renewables, not to mention a nice clean job installing solar panels instead of being stuffed down the mineshaft every day) simply doesn't even cause a blip on the radar of your typical elitist party apparatchik. We're such children, we don't know what we want, y'see.

You are, alas, so very right in your assessment. I've never been a big fan of unions, but only because I've seen what they've done to my industry. I don't mind them in the press room -- that's hard, dirty, sometimes dangerous work, and somebody needs to protect those people -- but in the newsroom they just get in the way.

Unfortunately, part of the problem with unions is that they have begun acting too much like wealthy corporations themselves. I don't know if they can legally solicit funds from non-members, but I'd be willing to contribute to the AFL-CIO (if it still exists) to give them the clout to shut down an industry that threatens to offshore jobs.

But you're exactly right -- there should have been a monstrous Democrat shitstorm over the loss of those Carrier jobs in Indianapolis. On the other hand, maybe the big-time Dems are beholden to corporations because we "little" people haven't paid into the kitty to keep the party afloat. It's really all about the Benjamins, and maybe we need to turn the whole thing over to the kids who can crowd-fund the party.

I dunno. I still like the idea of a street fighter. But that's just me.

[NAF1138]

Originally Posted by Corey Booker

Early Morning Thoughts on Today, November 9th.

This is not a time to curl up, give up or shut up.
It is time to get up; to stand up, to speak words that heal, help, and recommit to the cause of our country.
We had an election defeat, but we are not defeated.
We hurt, we fear, we may even regret that we did not do more.
But character is not defined, forged or built in good times.
The fire of adversity forges our steel.
And the searing heat of defeat reveals what we are made of.
We tell our truth not in what happens to us but in how we react – how we face a setback; how we rise when knocked down; how we work through fatigue and frustration; how we bring grit to our grief and heart to our hurt.
The will of a patriot is indomitable.
I regret that we have but one life to give to our country.
And thus, as long as we have breath in our bodies and blood in our veins, nothing can stop us from serving, helping, sacrificing and struggling for the cause of America - a cause that is 240 years old, a cause greater than our pain, sorrow, or fears - a cause that has seen agony, loss, setback, and defeats – but one that has never, ever surrendered.
We are shaken, but our will must be firm.
This finite defeat will not end our infinite hope - in us, in America, in all her people no matter what their faith, race, or political party.
Our light is inextinguishable, no matter how much darkness we face.
We must be brilliant now, when it is needed most, not a dim, dull capitulation to the gloom that abounds.
We are prisoners of hope - knowing hope and faith do not exist in the abstract; they are the active conviction that frustration and despair will never have the last word.
So let us stand up today. Let us pledge allegiance to our nation with renewed conviction and courage.
Let us be determined to reach out to our fellow countrywomen and men.
Let us encourage others.
Let us be gracious.
Let us seek to build bridges where they have been burned.
Let us seek to restore trust where it has been eroded.
Let us stand our ground but still work to find common ground.
Let us be humble and do the difficult work of finding ways to collaborate and cooperate with those whose political affiliations may differ from ours.
But let us never, ever, surrender, forfeit, or retreat from our core values, our fundamental commitments to justice over prejudice; economic inclusion over poverty and unmerited privilege; and, always, love over hate.
Let us speak truth to power; fiercely defend those who are bullied, belittled, demeaned or degraded; and tenaciously fight for all people and the ideals we cherish.
It is a new day.
We love our country; we will serve it, defend it, and never stop struggling to make its great promise real for all.
And no one gets a vote on that.

Corey Booker 2020

[NAF1138]

Originally Posted by SmartAleq

But the Democratic party has made it very clear they don't want the unions--because corporations don't want unions. They won't fight against TPP and other "free trade agreements" no matter how deleterious they might be to working class people--because multinational corporations want them. They won't fight against climate change or for alternative energy sources--because the oil and gas industry pays their bills. The fact that most ordinary, working class Americans would actually prefer strong unions (assuming it's possible to reverse the programming that "unions r bad!!") and don't want "free trade agreements" that offshore their jobs and think it's pretty fucking important to stop screwing with the global climate (and would maybe like the lower energy bills inherent in renewables, not to mention a nice clean job installing solar panels instead of being stuffed down the mineshaft every day) simply doesn't even cause a blip on the radar of your typical elitist party apparatchik. We're such children, we don't know what we want, y'see.

Well, maybe the gargoyles taking over the cathedral might at least clue a few of them in that you can't recreate an eerily accurate version of Dickens' London nationwide and ratchet up the misery endlessly without at least throwing a few bones to keep the animals quiet. They used to understand this but have gotten pretty complacent that they can do whatever they want and we'll just shut up and take it. Yeah, not so much.

As for party affiliation, I think it might be strategically sound NOT to register with any party. Just go independent, keep 'em guessing about what you're for or against and make the fuckers work to woo you. Don't give them any semblance of security, no assurances that they have ANY constituency they can "count on." Because these days "count on" actually translates as "bully into anything." They're monstrously complacent and that needs to change bigtime. It's like people who have pet tigers, they're so sure that Fwuffy wuvs them that they lose sight of the fact that they're made of meat--you don't wanna be late with Fwuffy's dinner or you might have to find out the hard way just how much your pet "loves" you.

Smarty I have been on the anti party wagon for a long time. I'm off it. We need to take over the machine. It is time to stop being fractured and start working together. This is our country too and it is being stolen by all sides. But we can raise our voices. We can be loud and coordinated and unified. But the one true thing Trump taught us, we have to do it from the inside.

[BJMoose]

I am beginning to understand how Mark Hannah felt when Theodore Roosevelt became president. Or, for that matter, how any number of people felt when Andrew Jackson became president.


This is the second time in as many decades that a presidential candidate has lost the popular vote but won the White House. Any one else ready to demolish the antiquated Electoral College? (Not that the GOP will be leading that charge any time soon.)

[Rat Diva]

Re: Cory Booker

Thanks, I needed that.

The thing that bothered me most about this election is the anger, the vitriol, and even hatred the Trumpers and the Anyone Elsers have shown towards each other. What's needed now ... what he said, which is something I've been trying to put into words all day and couldn't quite do.

I don't like the two-party system, but registering with one of them is the only way to vote in primaries here, and that's not a tool I'm willing to give up.

[SmartAleq]

Sounds like initiatives for open primaries are a good first step for the midterms. Open up primaries in every state and I think you'll find the established parties will be quite a bit more conciliatory toward independents. Don't play the game by their rules--change the rules to suit the greatest good!

And yes, we DO need to start working together and the best way to do that is to step away from the D and R designations to allow for new ways for regular people to advance their actual interests rather than the interests of the ruling elite.

I know it's unpopular to say anything positive about Trump supporters or negative about the DNC (hoo boy, you should see the unfriending I've been getting this morning--thanks FB Purity!) but I've spent the past several months hanging out on the subreddit Way of the Bern. WOTB doesn't ban and welcomes all viewpoints, allowing the membership to fight it out on their own. I'll tell you what, I've been treated way more respectfully by Trump supporters than by Clinton supporters by a LONG chalk, in spite of my completely undisguised contempt for the man and everything he says. I've discovered that a substantial percentage of those who voted for Trump were actually voting AGAINST Clinton and her establishment neoliberal machine. Bernie supporters were PISSED when the nomination was stolen from him and we were mocked by the Clinton supporters for our pain, we were branded tin foil hat wearers in the face of massive DNC Leak documentation that we were absolutely right about the ratfuckery. We were snottily informed that we weren't needed, that She Had This and anyone who Wasn't For Her was to not let the screendoor hit 'em on the ass. Now they're all butthurt that Bernie supporters took them at their word.

Trump supporters, on the other hand, have been making it a point to come in this morning and tell the Bernie supporters that they would happily have voted for him and they're quite aware that Trump would have lost to Bernie. They're being goddamned gracious, in fact. We've spent months now finding out what it is that progressives have in common with the iconoclast Trump supporters and we're not as far off as they'd have us believe. The party line is that anyone who'd cast a vote for Trump is a woman hatin' racist xenophobe--and that's exactly as correct as saying all Clinton supporters are Wall Street lovin' corporatist anti-environmental warmongering xenophobes. Which is to say--not very. We're all mostly just folks who're goddamned tired of having our world screwed over to benefit the very tiniest group of insanely rich and powerful jackasses. It's just not right that 20% of children in this country live in poverty and go to bed hungry. It's not right that we're involved in shootin' wars in what, eight countries last I counted? It's not right that the Democratic Party candidate can't even come out and SAY that the minimum wage should be $15/hour when that's the bare minimum necessary to eke out a somewhat secure lifestyle. WTF, she couldn't even piss off her corporate donors enough to endorse THAT? Clinton was thunderously silent regarding the Dakota Access Pipeline Standing Rock protest--what Democrat could possibly think it's okay to allow militarized police from several states travelling on the taxpayer dime to mace and beat old people and pregnant women and children and stop them from holding PRAYER MEETINGS to defeat an unsafe and unpermitted pipeline? A project that, ironically, had already been moved from upstream of Bismarck after white NIMBY protests that did NOT involve attack dogs and rubber bullets, just a "Nope, not here" and off they went to fuck over the First Nations yet again. She couldn't piss off her donors enough to even make a stand on that, not even the most token stand imaginable. She deserved to lose and the DNC engineered their own destruction because they've gotten to the point where they can't stand up to their donor interests in even the most minor way, can't even talk sense to them and say, "Yeah, I know you don't want this but they're gonna go up in flames if we don't chill things out, let's take the long view and capitulate a bit so they all go watch football instead." Nope, so captured they can't even make the most token attempt at a populist stance.

So I say let's ditch the tainted history of D and R and make common cause with the others who're in our same boat. We'll have a much better chance of getting the more racist and homophobic crazy pantses under control if we tell them we'll help out with the economic side but they have to get off the social war train to enlist our assistance. They can be just as racist and anti-woman and anti-LGBT as they want in the privacy of their own heads and homes, but that shit won't fly as a matter of public policy if you want the progressives to help you out. In return, we'll stop calling them stupid yokels and I think a general rise in the level of politesse and respect for ALL Americans would do us all simply a world of good. Respect, you have to give it to get it, and we've allowed our masters to goad us into punching each other way too much. In short, we all need to take the pledge that any punching is gonna go UP, not to the side and definitely not down. Fight the power, not the powerless. Ain't rocket surgery, y'know?

[Solfy]

Originally Posted by Rat Diva

The thing that bothered me most about this election is the anger, the vitriol, and even hatred the Trumpers and the Anyone Elsers have shown towards each other.

I started off bothered by that. Then I realized that the anger and hatred is not new anger and hatred. It's been there all along. I just didn't have to see it. Now we know beyond the shadow of a doubt that just because society teaches people that it's impolite to voice such opinions, that doesn't make them go away. Not that I ever thought they did, but the magnitude was rather startling.

My hope is that we will continue to evolve into a less hate-filled society by virtue of having open, honest discussions. I'm not enough of an optimist to think that everyone's going to get together and sing "Kumbaya" in peace and harmony, but you can't solve a problem if you're too busy pretending there is no problem.

[Flying Saucerian]

I'm gonna hafta get rid of my Regis CD...

[Nonny J. Nonnington III]

Originally Posted by Anacanapuna

I didn't cringe when Hillary called that crowd a "basket of deplorables." I cringed when she walked it back.

Except that the first rule of campaigning is to attack the candidate and their platform, not their supporters. And Clinton had to know that the vote was going to be decided by independents and undecideds; her job was to woo them, and instead she treated them with contempt.

Yeah on the street fighter though, but I despair that it will happen. Remember the keynote speech at the 2004 Dem. convention given by this young Senator from Illinois? It was obvious that the party saw a rising star that they could their wagon to. Who do we have that could do that today? I don't blame Sanders for throwing support behind Clinton the way some people do, but he should be working now to find someone to carry his vision forward. Preferably someone young to relate to millenials, and with the stamina to carry on a long and exciting campaign; God knows how Sanders kept up a pace that would knocked me, a guy 12 years younger right onto my ass. We needed a firebrand, and instead we got Clinton's soggy firewood. And not including a quote from you here, but the working class hating unions stumps me; it's part of what I meant earlier about people voting against their own interests.

Originally Posted by SmartAleq

I'll tell you what, I've been treated way more respectfully by Trump supporters than by Clinton supporters by a LONG chalk, in spite of my completely undisguised contempt for the man and everything he says. I've discovered that a substantial percentage of those who voted for Trump were actually voting AGAINST Clinton and her establishment neoliberal machine. Bernie supporters were PISSED when the nomination was stolen from him and we were mocked by the Clinton supporters for our pain, we were branded tin foil hat wearers in the face of massive DNC Leak documentation that we were absolutely right about the ratfuckery. We were snottily informed that we weren't needed, that She Had This and anyone who Wasn't For Her was to not let the screendoor hit 'em on the ass. Now they're all butthurt that Bernie supporters took them at their word.

Trump supporters, on the other hand, have been making it a point to come in this morning and tell the Bernie supporters that they would happily have voted for him and they're quite aware that Trump would have lost to Bernie. They're being goddamned gracious, in fact. We've spent months now finding out what it is that progressives have in common with the iconoclast Trump supporters and we're not as far off as they'd have us believe. ?

This. Absolutely this. I post in some other forums with the same old names day after day, and the fiercest arguments were between Clinton supporters and everyone else. Most Trump supporters weren't going to vote for Sanders, but they respected him and his platform even though they didn't agree. The Clinton camp could not admit that everything that stood in the way of her presidency came as a direct result of Hillary and Bill's actions and their sense of entitlement, and arguments escalated well past the point of meaningful dialogue. Off the hook diatribe when bringing up the DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and then shoulder shrugging when the Wikileaks revealed exactly that when it was too late to do anything.

Trump's supporters could actually talk reasonably with Sanders's supporters. The trouble was that the Clinton camp then tried to make the false equivalency that if the Trump and Sanders supporters shared many values and disgust with the whole process, then they must be similar candidates; nothing could be farther from the truth, of course. That gave them license to hate all of us. I definitely agree that Sanders had a much better chance of winning this than Clinton, but at least would have rolled a number of young and impassioned young people into the party.

So anyway, it looks like Trump's first week in office will be to revoke every executive action that Obama wrote. It's like the Communist era when people out of favor would be disappeared from photographs.

[Flying Saucerian]

I feel horrible for poor Rosie O'Donnell. But I also can't help feeling bad for the idiots who post gloating 'fat pig' comments on her Twitter page while sitting in their Barcaloungers waiting for all those wonderful jobs and the economic prosperity he promised them...

[JackieLikesVariety]

sitting in their Barcaloungers waiting for all those wonderful jobs and the economic prosperity he promised them

how long will it take them to figure out how screwed they are? or maybe they will never figure it out - Rump will blame somebody and they will go along with this. I don't suppose it matters who.

[SmartAleq]

If it helps any, the protest anti-Clinton voters have zero actual loyalty to Trump and won't hesitate to throw whirling shitfits at him when he fucks up.

[NAF1138]

Ok, I've finally made it to acceptance. Took me all day, and frankly I still have a bit of anger, but I am pretty sure I hit acceptance.

My grandfather was an activist. He fought to free Soviet Jews from the USSR. I don't know where to start but this whole thing has been a wake up call to me that I have been too complacent. I have been talking and not doing. Not following in his example.

So that's going to change. The proposal for the first hundred days is sickening, but it's our job now to be vocal opposition. Not knee jerk. Not obstructionists for the sake of our side winning, but when we care we need to make noise. Come from a place of love, be thoughtful, but do not be quite. Be vocal and visible. For the first few years we will lose. But not without giving them a fight. And in 2018 we take back Congress.

Call it Democrats, call it liberals, call it progressives. But we need to form a united front. Take the party from the inside, because we do not have time to build a new one. But stand united.

[Radical Edward]

Originally Posted by SmartAleq

If it helps any, the protest anti-Clinton voters have zero actual loyalty to Trump and won't hesitate to throw whirling shitfits at him when he fucks up.

No, it doesn't help. As a country we should have done literally anything to keep him out of office, even if it meant Hillary. And we didn't, and I'm moving to Mexico.

[Veb]

The pundits and talking heads bleating about bringing the country together, unity, blah blah fucking blah make me hurl. Let's be clear: the hatefest was vomited straight out of Trump's mouth. He felt perfectly free to attack women, Jews, Latinos, blacks, the disabled, Muslims, etc. etc. and goddamned etc. as a ploy to whip up his base. All those shining faces at his rallies, cheering their tiny brains out? The loved it. They weren't in it as a protest against Washington. Trump appealed to their dinosaur brains and they roared right on cue. Hate galvanizes, and nothing works quite as well as scapegoats.

Anybody who thinks I will forget any of it is deluded. I am most definitely won't fucking ever forget or overlook the sewer Trump crawled through, nor the fact that so many of my fellow citizens were perfectly willing to wallow in sewage with him.

So when the Orange Asshole spewed his hypocrisy about uniting the country, with the pundits nodding like bobble heads, my reaction was a clear, unmixed "fuck you". No, I do not have to support Trump. He might be worthy of my support about time he showed the rudimentary decency to apologize for casually demonizing random groups when it benefited him. But since he's ethically bankrupt, not to mention a thin-skinned bully, that won't happen.

So "unify"? Fuck that, fuck Trump and fuck his supporters. They can conveniently forget about the pure shit they wallowed in. I won't.

[Pere]

Originally Posted by Rat Diva

The thing that bothered me most about this election is the anger, the vitriol, and even hatred the Trumpers and the Anyone Elsers have shown towards each other.

I don't think it's fair to equate the hatred from the Trumpists, toward others for who they are, with anger toward the Trumpists for what they believe and do.

Originally Posted by SmartAleq

The party line is that anyone who'd cast a vote for Trump is a woman hatin' racist xenophobe--and that's exactly as correct as saying all Clinton supporters are Wall Street lovin' corporatist anti-environmental warmongering xenophobes. Which is to say--not very. We're all mostly just folks who're goddamned tired of having our world screwed over to benefit the very tiniest group of insanely rich and powerful jackasses.

Well, congratulations, because Trump is exactly the rich jackass to continue that and ramp it right up. At least a generation's worth of environmental protections right out, for starters.

[SmartAleq]

Hey, don't look at me--I voted for Bernie in the primary and when that got ratfucked I voted--from my ultra safe blue state, mind you--for Jill Stein because we need to get more choices than catshit/dogshit when it comes to filling out a ballot.

I don't think it's fucking productive to sit there and hate on people who actually ARE my neighbors--look at an election map of Oregon and notice how everything outside of Portland and Eugene is red as red can be--and who I know to be people who are fundamentally pretty goddamned decent. People who vote themselves tax increases to fund schools and help veterans and raise the state minimum wage and get relief to homeless people. Yes, we sure shit have ideological differences, but these are the people who stop and help me if I have car troubles out in the boondocks without expectation of reward or proof of ideological purity, just because it's the right thing to do. If you think I'm going to take the word of someone who does not live here over my lived experience with my neighbors that they've somehow turned into slavering monsters of iniquity overnight because of how they marked their ballot you are profoundly mistaken. I am respectfully submitting to everyone that they perhaps take a minute to breathe and reflect on the fact that all these systems we swear will be annihilated in microseconds under a Trump presidency somehow magically managed to survive Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. The same ultra white, low income counties in PA that voted in Obama in '08 voted Trump in '16 and it's pretty counterintuitive to attribute that to some contrafactual form of viral racism. Or maybe a wizard did it, who knows.

[Pere]

Nixon established some of the systems that Trump is likely to scuttle. Trump is far more dangerous and dishonest than Nixon.

[SmartAleq]

Time will tell, as it always does. In the meantime, how about we figure out a way to point that nutbar sewage cannon at things that really do need dismantling, like say the authoritarian surveillance systems that got imposed on us under the guise of "keeping us safe from terrorism?" I think we can agree this is an unwelcome intrusion into all our lives--what if we could get Trump on a rampage to gut the NSA? Dude says he wants to put out a YUGE infrastructure bill--can we get it funded by dropping the military budget a smidge or diverting oil and gas subsidies? That would be pretty cool. Pipe bombs can be super dangerous, but in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing they can be just as useful as any other tool. I'm a progressive, I've gotten really good at turning lemons into lemonade and quite frankly, from the standpoint of what I'd like to see done Trump really doesn't look any worse than Clinton was and could be ADHD enough to be kept spinning his wheels without doing too much real damage.

ETA: And it looks as though Bernie and I are of a similar mind:

Originally Posted by Bernie

"Donald Trump tapped into the anger of a declining middle class that is sick and tired of establishment economics, establishment politics and the establishment media. People are tired of working longer hours for lower wages, of seeing decent paying jobs go to China and other low-wage countries, of billionaires not paying any federal income taxes and of not being able to afford a college education for their kids - all while the very rich become much richer.

“To the degree that Mr. Trump is serious about pursuing policies that improve the lives of working families in this country, I and other progressives are prepared to work with him. To the degree that he pursues racist, sexist, xenophobic and anti-environment policies, we will vigorously oppose him.”

[Pere]

Trump is reportedly considering Sarah Palin for Secretary of the Interior. So I assume Ammon Bundy will be looked at for Deputy.

[JackieLikesVariety]

Originally Posted by Pere

Trump is reportedly considering Sarah Palin for Secretary of the Interior. So I assume Ammon Bundy will be looked at for Deputy.

oh, FFS, just shoot me now

[running coach]

Originally Posted by JackieLikesVariety

oh, FFS, just shoot me now

Could be worse. He could be considering her for Secretary of Education Really Big and Difficult Words.

[BJMoose]

Wait your turn. I need to shoot myself first. . . .

[stormie]

I did not expect this.

Here's what I think: many people really don't think women should have power. HC is damned for being competent and rather than cuddly. Not sexy, not young, not fuzzy, maternal, cute or charming. This election shows that, when given social probity, people really are just as racist and sexist as they were back when Watts was burning.

[NAF1138]

I would like to point out, and I think it's important to remember, that Clinton has won the popular vote and won it by a few points.

The majority of Americans do NOT feel like Trump was a good choice. Just the majority of States.

I am finding myself surprisingly enthusiastic about being fully obstructionist for the next two years. The Democrats have the numbers to filibuster everything. And they should.

[Pencil]

Read this excellent essay from the Atlantic. It's kinda long, but very much worth it.

[Veb]

Originally Posted by NAF1138

I am finding myself surprisingly enthusiastic about being fully obstructionist for the next two years. The Democrats have the numbers to filibuster everything. And they should.

Oh yes, this. A thousand times this. The fucking GOP happily gridlocked the government for eight long years, disdaining any compromise on the basis it would taint their ideological purity. Well, this Independent enthusiastically backs putting every roadblock possible in their way for at least the next four on the basis the damage must be limited. Block, harry and befuddle the bastards at every turn. Enough of the gotta-be-nice-guys nonsense. That demonstrably doesn't do shit with bullies and this time the stakes aren't just faux-ideological.

And as for the "nice" friends, family and neighbors who enabled this mess, it comes down to a game of Scruples. "Your life and financial situation aren't as good as you hoped. Are you wiling to make targets of Muslims, blacks, Jews, gays, women, immigrants and the disabled for vague promises to make your situation better?" Far too many of our "nice" friends, family and neighbors said "sure, why not?" to exactly that. They were perfectly willing to see genuine, real-life harm done to big swathes of the population on the distant chance their own lives might somehow be improved.

That's disgusting. Decent people Don't. Do. That. Am I gonna boycott my various friends, family and neighbors? Nope, but I'll never trust them again. Next time I could very possibly be expendable to their comfort and convenience. The frequently used Angelou quote holds: when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. And better believe I'm being downright mouthy too. Very out of character for me but shit just got real.

[Solfy]

Originally Posted by NAF1138

I am finding myself surprisingly enthusiastic about being fully obstructionist for the next two years. The Democrats have the numbers to filibuster everything. And they should.

I've seen this sentiment elsewhere, and I've got to say I don't agree. As satisfying as it sounds at face value, what I DON'T want to see is people being obstructionist to score imaginary points.

Obstruct if you feel what's being pushed is not in the best interest of the country. Obstruct in an honest attempt to get the other side to work toward some acceptable middle ground. But I hate obstruction for obstruction's sake, which I've seen too damned much of over the last 8 years.

I don't like Trump. I don't like him at all. But there were enough people over the past several years having snit fits and screwing the country simply because they didn't like Obama. Turn about only fucks the country some more. It's not about ideology or revenge. It's about getting shit done.

[NAF1138]

Originally Posted by Solfy

I've seen this sentiment elsewhere, and I've got to say I don't agree. As satisfying as it sounds at face value, what I DON'T want to see is people being obstructionist to score imaginary points.

Obstruct if you feel what's being pushed is not in the best interest of the country. Obstruct in an honest attempt to get the other side to work toward some acceptable middle ground. But I hate obstruction for obstruction's sake, which I've seen too damned much of over the last 8 years.

I don't like Trump. I don't like him at all. But there were enough people over the past several years having snit fits and screwing the country simply because they didn't like Obama. Turn about only fucks the country some more. It's not about ideology or revenge. It's about getting shit done.

I don't think it's obstructionist for the sake of obstructionism. I look at the first 100 days release and think to myself that I don't want any of that. Now, Mitch McConnell doesn't want some of it either, so that's great. But I don't Fucking want aca repealed and replaced with an hsa account. That's stupid. My father who is being treated for cancer and is only 63 would likely lose his health care in that scenario and go bankrupt. No. Thanks though.

I don't want to open up the keystone pipeline. I don't want to dismantle the regulations on us emissions. And you know what. Neither do the majority of Americans. Definitively. She won the popular vote by a lot.

So, block it. Fuck em. We spent the last 8 years trying to play nice and compromising and building coalitions and getting told that we were shoving crazy liberal ideas down their throats. We have let them run the narrative. It's time to stand up for what is ours.

[Solfy]

Originally Posted by NAF1138

I don't think it's obstructionist for the sake of obstructionism.

Then you and I are on the same page. But I've seen the same sentiment employed more blindly elsewhere, and it bothers me. It's not time for revenge, it's time for progress. (yeah, there's that cockeyed optimism again; I swear I know better)