Why is halloween becoming prevalent in Australia?

[Martini Enfield]

People are treating it like an actual holiday here in Australia, as opposed to the... well, the modern quasi-manufactured imported "event" that it is.

Every year we seem to get more and more halloween stuff in the shops, and I keep wondering "Why?"

We already have enough "events" each year that seem to involve spending money on crap, so why another one? Especially one imported from the US and with no relevance to anything in modern Australia

How long until people are celebrating the 4th of July here? I wonder sometimes.

Now, before anyone says "Oh, Martini, is there anything you don't hate? (There is, actually, but no-one wants to hear about them), I don't "hate" halloween- I just don't understand why it's being embraced in Australia.

[your mom]

BECAUSE YOUR MOM LIKES IT.

[8 minus 1]

You need sense of humor enema.

[Caught@Work]

Why not? Sourpuss.

[Pull My String!]

It's all about marketing new products.

[Bym Beaux]

Why so grumpy? Is it because you're in the upside down part of the world? Becauses ometimes when I sleep with my head lower than my feet i get sucha headachelol! is that why your cranky? Would you like to see my boobs? That would probbly cheer u up! lol!

[Pencil]

Originally Posted by Martini Enfield

Every year we seem to get more and more halloween stuff in the shops, and I keep wondering "Why?"

Well, there's your answer right there. Follow the money.

It happened here in Sweden about ten years ago and while I see the underlying reason being sheer consumerism, kids seem to love it and this time of year it's awfully gray and dreary in Scandinavia, so splashes of orange and a reason to fool around during the fall break is not a bad thing.

[Sleep's Big Nose]

HONK

[Quincy Archer]

Um, because it's the most awesome holiday ever. Duh?

[Pull My String!]

Aw, I think somebody needs a few more talking toys in his life!

[Quincy Archer]

Is that a glass dildo in your avatar?

[AllWalker]

I blame those Simpsons Halloween specials. Never mind that they are never aired anywhere near Halloween, but still.

The only thing I like about the holiday is the Homestarloween released each year. Costumed parties can be cool. Trick or treating is... I don't know. Something about it just seems wrong. I could construct a list of reasons why, but something tells me SRS discussion will be difficult in this thread.

[Wolf Larsen]

Arr Martini, our plans for world cultural domination have been unleashed!

[blank]

Could be the influence of your Irish imports. Bealtane is still celebrated here.

[Martini Enfield]

Originally Posted by AllWalker

I blame those Simpsons Halloween specials. Never mind that they are never aired anywhere near Halloween, but still.

The only thing I like about the holiday is the Homestarloween released each year. Costumed parties can be cool. Trick or treating is... I don't know. Something about it just seems wrong. I could construct a list of reasons why, but something tells me SRS discussion will be difficult in this thread.

Yeah... silly me for starting a topic and hoping people might have a serious discussion about it before hijacking it and namecalling.

The costumed parties aspect of halloween is fun, but I do have issues with trick or treating. But mainly I was just trying to work out why an artificial holiday had suddenly become so popular in such a short period of time... I mean, you can eat lollies and have fancy dress parties whenever you like.

[Pull My String!]

Originally Posted by Quincy Archer

Is that a glass dildo in your avatar?

Yes, but it's so much more than that!

[Sexy Wesley In A Thong]

Is it a Speak and Say dildo?

[AllWalker]

Originally Posted by Martini Enfield

Yeah... silly me for starting a topic and hoping people might have a serious discussion about it before hijacking it and namecalling.

The costumed parties aspect of halloween is fun, but I do have issues with trick or treating. But mainly I was just trying to work out why an artificial holiday had suddenly become so popular in such a short period of time... I mean, you can eat lollies and have fancy dress parties whenever you like.

I'm serious about my Simpsons theory, you know. Mine was one of the generations that was raised on that show, and I can see how it would make a cultural impact.

[Pull My String!]

Originally Posted by Sexy Wesley In A Thong

Is it a Speak and Say dildo?

Oh my gosh, what an awesome idea that would be!

[Martini Enfield]

Originally Posted by AllWalker

I'm serious about my Simpsons theory, you know. Mine was one of the generations that was raised on that show, and I can see how it would make a cultural impact.

I think you might be onto something there, actually. There are people at my uni who do not know a time when The Simpsons hasn't been on TV. It's an awesome show, no argument, and it's definitely had a cultural impact... but enough to raise halloween from "goofy American thing" to "established celebration" here? It's an interesting idea.

[Wolf Larsen]

Maybe we can import Ned Kelly day here and walk around in homemade armor and get shot in the legs.

[Queen of Darkness w/Fluffy Bunnies]

It could be a combination of things. Marketing, Simpsons, people becoming more enthusiastic as they tried it out and found it good, which led to more marketing, more demands for Simpsons re-runs, more people trying it out and finding it good, so now it's an out of control snowball of Halloweeny goodness down under!

Want a bunny?

[RedRosesForMe]

I have a problem with you calling it an artificial holiday. All Saints Day has existed for more than a millennium in the Catholic church, and we totally robbed some Celtic pagan traditions in our celebrations.

Now I have to go make my Medusa costume.

[blank]

Originally Posted by RedRosesForMe

I have a problem with you calling it an artificial holiday. All Saints Day has existed for more than a millennium in the Catholic church, and we totally robbed some Celtic pagan traditions in our celebrations.

Now I have to go make my Medusa costume.

Partly agreed. I do think the whole "trick or treat" side is a possible americanism but the rest is pretty much samhain

[Martini Enfield]

Originally Posted by RedRosesForMe

I have a problem with you calling it an artificial holiday. All Saints Day has existed for more than a millennium in the Catholic church, and we totally robbed some Celtic pagan traditions in our celebrations.

Now I have to go make my Medusa costume.

It's artificial in the sense that it's never been celebrated here in the "pumpkins and trick-or-treating stuff" from, and in that guise it's largely been imported in whole cloth from the US- hence, "artificial".

If it had evolved here from All Hallow's Eve as it has in the US, then sure, I wouldn't consider it "artificial". But it's shown up here as a pumpkins and trick-or-treat holiday obviously following the American tradition, so IMHO it's artificial in that context.

[Laughing Lagomorph]

Originally Posted by Martini Enfield

...

Every year we seem to get more and more halloween stuff in the shops, and I keep wondering "Why?"...

Well, people must be buying the stuff. Stores are just trying to meet demand that is already there.

...

How long until people are celebrating the 4th of July here? I wonder sometimes.

...

If it makes you feel any better Cinco de Mayo (May 5th, a regional Mexican holiday) has been built up here in the US by importers of Mexican beer. From what I have seen from the consumer's point of view it serves the purpose of filling what would otherwise be a holdiay vacuum in that part of the calendar. Now if you're having a party in early May you can give it an ersatz Mexican theme.

[takowasakun]

Why do more and more people celebrate Halloween, Christmas, and even god-fucking-damn Valentine's Day* in Japan? Same reason. Holidays sell and lots of people like holidays, even if they have no "natural" cultural basis.

*That's turned into enough of a clusterfuck here that they even have a second Valentine's Day in March, White Day. Thankfully, it's not terribly popular, probably because it revolves around men actually showing some appreciation and affection toward their girlfriends/lovers/wives.

[takowasakun]

Originally Posted by Laughing Lagomorph

If it makes you feel any better Cinco de Mayo (May 5th, a regional Mexican holiday) has been built up here in the US by importers of Mexican beer. From what I have seen from the consumer's point of view it serves the purpose of filling what would otherwise be a holdiay vacuum in that part of the calendar. Now if you're having a party in early May you can give it an ersatz Mexican theme.

That's why I don't blame Japan for importing Halloween. October's pretty dead as far as holidays go around here. If it weren't for Halloween, the stores would have to get geared up for Christmas even earlier.

[cormac]

its just getting more and more commercial. PLus I'd have to agree that the whole trick or treat etc thing is basically an idea imported from the US. The more traditional ways of celebrating halloween have all but disappeared over here (in Ireland) anyway.

[blank]

Originally Posted by cormac

its just getting more and more commercial. PLus I'd have to agree that the whole trick or treat etc thing is basically an idea imported from the US. The more traditional ways of celebrating halloween have all but disappeared over here (in Ireland) anyway.

What? You mean the underage drinking, the throwing of illegal fireworks and the stoning of the emergency services- Nope all these things are alive and thriving...

[wring]

Originally Posted by Martini Enfield

Yeah... silly me for starting a topic and hoping people might have a serious discussion about it before hijacking it and namecalling.

The costumed parties aspect of halloween is fun, but I do have issues with trick or treating. But mainly I was just trying to work out why an artificial holiday had suddenly become so popular in such a short period of time... I mean, you can eat lollies and have fancy dress parties whenever you like.

You've opined from time to time, that you're not very fond of the whimsical aspect of this board. And you choose this point of the year to ask this question, then are surprised when you get playful responses.

"oh, please, tell me what this 'fun' is and why people like it?" haven't you noticed that damn near every holiday has gotten bigger over the years? Seems to me in my childhood, the only holiday decorations you had were for Christmas, plus the carved pumpkins at Halloween. Now, every damn 'holiday' has their own decorating themes.

Let's see off the top of my head : Reasons why adults are getting into Halloween more these days

Some adults have to spend inordinate amounts of their time doing serious things, contemplating disasters and taking care of business. This can lead to an overload, and depression. Specifically getting 'playful' and 'whimsical' from time to time is often cathartic in nature.

Some folks had not so happy childhoods, and look forward to re-inventing the childhood at a point where they can control many of the aspects of it.

It's a fun holiday - dress funny, candy, put on a different personality and so on. Why only allow small people to have fun?


Seriously, a more interesting question for me would be "why do you persist in being such an internet wet blanket?" When they first were suggesting this halloween theme, my first thought was "oh, gosh, hope it's specifically 'opt in' 'cause Martini will get all butthurt about it if he stumbles onto it. So, they made it opt in, good thinking. And yet, here you are with your dour attitude 'goodness gracious what silliness'.

Lack of sense of play does not make you a better, wiser person. Willfully looking askance at those about you having fun does not, either.

People enjoy it. Let them do so in peace.

There's any number of obsessions and stuff that folks enjoy that I don't share -the whole love of sports, for example. That's why I stay out of the sports threads, forums. That's why I try and pay at least enough attention to it so I don't end up accidentally driving through fucking game day traffic. I don't begrudge them their fun. I don't share it, either, and simply do my best to let them have their fun their way. IF some of us are 'into' Halloween Silliness, be grateful they made some real attempt to allow you to 'opt out'.

Look - you don't have to engage in it. But for the life of me, I can't figure out why you seem to have the need to stand off to the side and do the 'tut tut' routine with a monocle.

[Veb]

Originally Posted by Martini Enfield

If it had evolved here from All Hallow's Eve as it has in the US, then sure, I wouldn't consider it "artificial". But it's shown up here as a pumpkins and trick-or-treat holiday obviously following the American tradition, so IMHO it's artificial in that context.

I hate the overblown Germanic crap associated with Christmas that was popularized in Britain with Queen Victoria's slavish devotion to Prince Albert. It didn't evolve here, it was a blatantly imported fashion and I don't like it either.

[Cirrhotic Santa]

I don't know why, but you can bet your ass he's getting coal for Christmas.

Bah.

[Auntie Ghastly]

Originally Posted by Martini Enfield

Yeah... silly me for starting a topic and hoping people might have a serious discussion about it before hijacking it and namecalling.

Jeez, lighten up your ass a little Marty.

[Jack Chick]

Originally Posted by Auntie Ghastly

Jeez, lighten up your ass a little Marty.

Yeah. I mean, I'm Jack Chick, for Pete's sake, and even I think you're being an uptight prig!

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Martini Enfield

If it had evolved here from All Hallow's Eve as it has in the US, then sure, I wouldn't consider it "artificial".

I'm surprised you allow Australia to celebrate holidays at all. About the only naturally evolving holidays on the continent are Aboriginal, and maybe not even all of those — and, for that matter, the same could be said of nearly every holiday in the New World, most of them in Britain, and many in Europe.

Personally, I don't celebrate Hallowe'en, and I think it's become an excuse for merchandisers to sell a bunch of crap that nobody really needs. It's wasteful, especially since it's about candy and one-use consumables — at least with Christmas you can buy ornaments, lights, and a stocking to re-use every year! Whoever dreamed of the idea that you buy a new expensive costume each year was a marketing genius.

I think we can agree that Hallowe'en is a stupid, conspicuous waste. But blaming it on being "imported" just doesn't make sense to me. What traditions didn't Australia ultimately import from abroad?

[Mirhanda]

Australian kids were probably jealous that American kids get a bag of free candy every year. I don't blame them.

[Martini Enfield]

Originally Posted by wring

There's any number of obsessions and stuff that folks enjoy that I don't share -the whole love of sports, for example. That's why I stay out of the sports threads, forums. That's why I try and pay at least enough attention to it so I don't end up accidentally driving through fucking game day traffic. I don't begrudge them their fun. I don't share it, either, and simply do my best to let them have their fun their way. IF some of us are 'into' Halloween Silliness, be grateful they made some real attempt to allow you to 'opt out'.

Look - you don't have to engage in it. But for the life of me, I can't figure out why you seem to have the need to stand off to the side and do the 'tut tut' routine with a monocle.

I don't recall saying "Halloween is silly and I hate it". I was asking if anyone had any thoughts on why a holiday not culturally associated with this country suddenly became so popular. That's not something I'd expect to get stupid or insulting responses straight off the bat.

As for the rest of it: I've made no comment at all about the fun people are having doing all the halloween stuff on the boards. I'm glad you guys are enjoying it. I'm not participating because I don't celebrate halloween, but if you guys are having fun, enjoy it. But please, knock off the insults and personal attacks, OK? That's not fun and they're making me feel unwelcome here.

[SmartAleq]

Originally Posted by Jack Chick

Yeah. I mean, I'm Jack Chick, for Pete's sake, and even I think you're being an uptight prig!

Dayum, y'all's been SERVED!

[takowasakun]

Cultural drift.

Question answered.

[threnody]

Originally Posted by Mirhanda

Australian kids were probably jealous that American kids get a bag of free candy every year. I don't blame them.

I was when I was growing up. We weren't allow to go out. But we were allowed to dress up in costumes and hang around the house. Big whoop.

Martini I think it's been low key here for a number of years, but even when Ol' thren was growing up there were kids that used to get to go trick or treating. It's always been here, it's just that the marketers have hold of it now.

[Colonel Plink]

This is what happens when your Liberal-assed, One-World Politicians take away your guns. You start getting stupid cultural bric-a-brac from all corners of the globe shoved down your throats.

Damn the man.

He's just tryin' to keep a brother down.

[takowasakun]

Originally Posted by Colonel Plink

He's just tryin' to keep a brother down make a brother dress up like a spooky ghost.

Fixed that for ya.

[Colonel Plink]

Word.

[Zombie Hobo]

Originally Posted by Martini Enfield

But please, knock off the insults and personal attacks, OK? That's not fun and they're making me feel unwelcome here.

Anyone as well armed as you are doesn't have to feel, or even be, welcome.

Those guys are just mouthy because you're thousands of miles away.

So fuck 'em. Post what you want. Make Roo cry, tell Khampelf he's not funny, refuse to take MarissaW seriously. Whatever you want, man.

[SmartAleq]

Yeah, shine on, you crazy diamond!

[Ichigodaisuki]

Martini Enfield,
As you know, there is very little formality here and Giraffe labelled this forum "your two cents" everyone here is either drunk or insane(when posting).
As usual, you get what you you pay for, and even less, if your lucky.
Everyone over 18 in America is drunk on Halloween, man.

You are being assimilated, as you can tell. First-wise, there is money to be made. Second-wise, The English over-ruled the Aboriginals. ( It's like throwing a Koala dream universe right back at them)*.

*not that I have ever actually done that. I respect their values.

[Godzilla]

It's all about the candy. Any excuse to sell and/or consume massive amounts of candy is going to catch on eventually.

[AllWalker]

Originally Posted by Fish

I think we can agree that Hallowe'en is a stupid, conspicuous waste. But blaming it on being "imported" just doesn't make sense to me. What traditions didn't Australia ultimately import from abroad?

Australia has derived a lot of holidays and traditions from other countries, but mostly only from those directly related to our heritage. We celebrate British holidays because, hey, we were settled by the British. Quite a few Germans came here, and so we have Oktoberfest. Et cetera.

It is just weird to see an increase in Americanisation* without any real increase in Americans, and we have been saturated by American culture for several decades now. Marketers filling a void or earning a buck by pushing a particular holiday seems far less natural form of cultural drift than, say, immigration, hence Halloween is (here at least) an artificial holiday. Though we could quibble over the differences for weeks.

*huh, this is an awesome word. Look at it - it sort of contradicts itself.

[Sleeps With Butterflies]

Nevermind