Why do radio DJs have such short shifts?

[FupDuck]

Seems like DJs (disk jockeys or radio announcers) work only five hours or so. Then they may do a rough plan of their next day on-air time, probably another hour. Then they go home.

They don't appear to burn out at a great rate.

[Joey P]

My WAG would be so you don't hear the same person twice a day. That is, the person you hear on your lunch break isn't the same jockey you listen to on the way home and the person you hear on the way home from work isn't the same person you hear on your way home from being out later that night etc etc.
That, and maybe the shorter shifts are what keep them from burning out too quickly.

[FupDuck]

That makes a bit of sense. Or maybe they only hire ADHD sufferers?

[Amp]

From what I understand the DJ's on the local station I listen to here pull 8 hour shifts. Two hours before their shift, four hours on air and two hours after their shift. Not sure what the two hours before and after is though. I would assume planning out their topics, playlists, getting their promotional stuff together, after action reports, etc.

[Zeener Diode]

Originally Posted by Amp

From what I understand the DJ's on the local station I listen to here pull 8 hour shifts. Two hours before their shift, four hours on air and two hours after their shift. Not sure what the two hours before and after is though. I would assume planning out their topics, playlists, getting their promotional stuff together, after action reports, etc.

That leaves four hours of overlapping work schedules. Not really conducive to maintaining a business.

[john ingram]

In my office it is not unusual for all the employees shift to overlap as much as eight hours a day. Doesn't really seem to hurt the bottom line that much...

[severe delays]

There seems to be a big assumption here that DJs do the same work. They don't. Each show will have it's own team and it's own researchers to find material for upcoming shows. And while one is working on a big show for a national charity another team will be working on something to do with the history of pancakes. Just because they are in the building at the same time doesn't mean they are all on the same project. Though there will also probably be larger meetings where the stations 'tone' is conveyed to the staff and hot topics to address/avoid are discussed. I'd suspect that side is only a small part of what is done to produce a decent show though.

Here it's more common for a show to be only 2 or 3 hours long but that still involves more work than just working out a playlist and a vague script. Interviews have to be set up and carried out, special guests have to be arranged and brought in with whatever equipment they'll need. If there are regular phone-in slots then work has to be done to accomodate those. I can think of a million things to do with a 3 hour radio show that don't involve actually being on air.

[Fish]

Radio stations may also be keenly aware of different listener demographics at different parts of the day.

[Camelopardalis mortis]

Besides prep time, all will do production (i.e., make commercials); some have administrative duties (program director, music director); some do sales.

Keep in mind that most have (or used to have) six-day work weeks. So working six hours a day wouldn't be cheating.

[Sleel]

I don't work in radio, but any presentation I've ever done involves way more prep time than presentation time. Think about it, if you only had to find things to fill 3 hours of time, how long would it take you to make sure that absolutely every minute of that time was filled? Now, how long would it take you to make sure that you didn't suck while filling that time? Now, how long to make your shift entertaining and good?

Even when I'm at my best and I know the material inside and out, it takes me easily twice as long to plan a project as it does to present it. Polish costs extra time. Believe me, I've done more than a few presentations too. Just because DJs do it for a living doesn't mean they're magically better and faster at planning things than anyone else. It just means they've had a bit more practice.

[Islander]

I only listen to public radio. I'm not being elitist, I like the programming and I can't stand commercials. That explains why, in what follows, I don't really know what I'm talking about.

I always had the impression that pop music shows, like the ones I've heard locally, subscribe to a music service. They don't have a playlist, instead they get a tape or a feed or something. The DJ's job is to insert the commercials and a little chatter followed by SIX SOLID TUNES IN A ROW. Is that in fact what happens?

[tunaman]

Originally Posted by Islander

I always had the impression that pop music shows, like the ones I've heard locally, subscribe to a music service. They don't have a playlist, instead they get a tape or a feed or something. The DJ's job is to insert the commercials and a little chatter followed by SIX SOLID TUNES IN A ROW. Is that in fact what happens?

No. Back in the old days (the 50s and 60s), DJs generally brought their own records to the studio and played whatever they liked (provided it wasn't obscene and fit in the the station's format). Record companies provided promo copies of their latest hits in hopes that the station would play them (and, of course, paid off several DJs to do just that, hence the "payola scandals" of the past).

The amount of freedom given to a DJ varied with their success. A new DJ or a DJ of mediocre talent might often be given a playlist to choose from, or might be limited to whatever records the station had on hand. A big name DJ (like Wolfman Jack) wouldn't be an actual "employee" of the station - he'd buy his airtime from the station directly, and come up with his own sponsors (talk radio host Neal Boortz used to do this when he was on WGST in Atlanta; I don't know if he still does now that he has a syndicated show in WSB).

Time passed, and the radio industry rapidly consolidated into a few very large media companies. A company like Clear Channel, for example, has strict playlists that DJs are more or less required to follow.

Part of the reason radio sucks so badly these days is because the "home office" controls so much of what's broadcast that it's all kind of the same. A media company might have a "morning zoo crew" in Buffalo, Atlanta, Chicago, and Denver. They'll all have the same personalities, play the same songs, have the same contests, and pull the same stunts. But it's all actual people doing this, not a tape that's been dubbed over.

I don't know how often it's done these days, but back in the 70s and 80s it was common for celebrities to record answers to questions, and a tape or LP of that recording was sent to radio stations with copies of the questions. The local DJ would then record him or herself asking the questions, and the whole thing would be spliced together to sound like a real interview.

That's the type of thing you're asking about, right?

[Pencil]

Maybe I should start a "Ask the guy who worked in radio for 25 years" thread?

[Martini Enfield]

Originally Posted by tunaman

I don't know how often it's done these days, but back in the 70s and 80s it was common for celebrities to record answers to questions, and a tape or LP of that recording was sent to radio stations with copies of the questions. The local DJ would then record him or herself asking the questions, and the whole thing would be spliced together to sound like a real interview.

There's at least one nationally broadcast radio music show here that I think does that- it certainly seems unlikely that someone like Sting or Eric Clapton would take the time out of their day to talk fondly about an old album with a DJ in Australia, although I may very well be wrong there. Admittedly, the show never makes it sound like an interview, it's just "The DJ introduces Artist X talking about Album Y" before segueing into a song (either the title track or the song the artist was talking about) from the album.

[Polycarp]

Charlie, I offer this subject to your correction, but my understanding was that full-time employees of radio stations would "do a show" for X period -- up to five hours, with three being more normal -- and spend the remainder of their work day recording commercials, announcements, station IDs, and the other things that are needed to run a profitable station which are normally pre-recorded and played at appropriate times.

My wife worked for a year or so maintaining 'station logs' -- the record, mandated by the FCC at the time, of what announcements were made. One thing it was used for is to document to advertisers that their ad did indeed run the number of times it was contracted for, and with appropriate spacing (Fred's Chevrolet's ads cannot run within 10 minutes of ads for Joe's Ford, for example).

(By the way, FupDuck, do you by any chance have a fondness for the old Queen song "Under Pressure"?)

[Pencil]

There are many answers to the question, and yes Polycarp, an ordinary DJ with no fame to his/her name would often be assigned such things. By ordinary DJ, I mean someone who does the midday shift which consists of playing music and commercials, front and backselling music and telling what time it is and what the weather is like (as if the listener doesn't know). There is minimal show prep for such a shift and a full time employee would have to do other things as well.

Nowadays everything is computerized so work has changed. The midday DJ might be on a marketing gig during the afternoon drive, giving away stickers at a gas station the afternoon DJ is plugging. This is if it's a local station. If it's a network, like Clear Channel, the DJ might be busy pre-recording localized PSAs, promos and whatnot.

[Anacanapuna]

I'll PM Colonel Plink -- he'll have some insight. It's what he does for a living. Short answer is, well, it's already been answered. Plink puts in a 10- to 12-hour day, only four of which are actually on the air doing a live show. The rest of the day he's producing commercials (writing, voicing, editing, etc.), schmoozing the advertisers, appearing at live remotes (not every day, but often enough), programming the station's music, producing promotional materials (those funny little jingles you hear between songs) and other program elements, and prepping for the next day's show.

[tunaman]

I should also mention that there *are* some stations that are completely automated. DJs come in and record their banter, and everything is put into (what amounts to) a WinAMP playlist, and the whole thing is aired live. Most of the "Christmas music stations" are like this, and I believe a lot of the regular stations do this over holidays, etc.

[73 LeBaron]

I programmed a Classic Country station for a media giant whose name I Cannot Comment on until March of this year. In addition to long-term and short-term progam development, I scheduled all the music for every minute of every day, wrote and maintained station imaging (the anonymous Deep Voice Guy whose work appears every few songs to remind you that "You're listening to all your Country Favorites on WXXX!")--that stuff changes every three to six weeks, believe it or not; it just all sounds the same, handled a five-hour daily morning show (solo, no sidekick or "zoo"), and recorded weekend shows for another market. I maintained contracts for the station and supervised a staff (one local talent, two other "voicetrackers" who worked in other markets full-time and worked remotely for me part-time) and produced a weekly public affairs show, along with a weekly two-hour bluegrass feature. I also produced commercials for all five of the stations in the group.

Then they fired me and all the staff and reformatted the station as "ChuckBillJackSteveFredCharlie--We play what we want!" with no programming staff. There's a station in your town that sounds exactly like it, with nobody behind the microphone--100% savings on labor, a radio station on a desktop.

They told me the change was mandated by ratings. "SteveBillCharlieJackFredChuck" had a 10% decline from Classic Country, and I'm still musing over the remains of a 35-year radio career and collecting unemployment. I suppose this is a hijack and a bit of a selfish rant about the state of the industry and the economy, but corporate radio is changing, and not in a good way.

Anyhoo, DJs don't sit in a little room and listen to music four hours a day and get paid for it.

[Portia]

Originally Posted by FupDuck

...Then they go home.

They don't appear to burn out at a great rate.

All the radio people I know would go from their on-air job to another job - it doesn't always pay the bills. One guy worked his shift at a country music station then went off the spend the rest of the day being a phlebotomist.

Even if the dj's don't burn out they do have an high turnover rate; listeners are fickle. If they get sick of something they stop listening. Then numbers go down & the station can't charge as much for advertising & that's what they're all there for - to sell spots. (NPR & college radio not included.)

Portia,
Former college DJ- WORB, Farmington Hills' Only Alternative


Oh my god, am I signing my posts like my damn husband??

[FupDuck]

Originally Posted by Polycarp

(By the way, FupDuck, do you by any chance have a fondness for the old Queen song "Under Pressure"?)

No particular connection to the tune, Polycarp.

I'm still convinced that DJs don't hang around much past their on-air shift despite what has been maintained herein. The breakfast crew that I listen to (three people), suggest in their conversations that they're meeting their partner for lunch and the like while on air.

[Islander]

Referring back to post # 12: In my last job before retiring, I did group therapy with teens. In the summer, given a 6-hour day, part of the day would include a trip to a place-of-interest type thing, and the kids would want the radio on in the van. We had an "approved" station we could tune in, sort of a pop/country mix, and I swear the same tunes came on in the same order in a kind of rotation. I got the impression that all the songs were pre-recorded because we heard them repeated throughout the day. Am I totally wrong? Because I wasn't ever really paying attention, but the kids were.

[73 LeBaron]

Originally Posted by FupDuck

I'm still convinced that DJs don't hang around much past their on-air shift despite what has been maintained herein. The breakfast crew that I listen to (three people), suggest in their conversations that they're meeting their partner for lunch and the like while on air.

I worked in broadcasting from 1973 until this spring, made enough to put two kids through college (almost; Dr. Daughter is a year or so from her PhD, Ranger Son is a senior in natural resources managment). I worked mostly mornings, with some side treks into news and production, and was honored to be nominated for small market broadcast personality of the year twice (1998 and 1999).

I rarely spent less than 9-10 hours in the office; when I went to work at 4:00 am, I was usually there until 2:00 pm, and there was always more work to be done. I frequently worked special projects that included evening and weekend obligations.

It may be that you are in a metropolitan mega-market where the morning talent makes seven figures and has an off-air staff to plan and write their material, but if they are working 6:00-10:00 and leaving, they have it ridiculously easy, and they are in no way worth what they are being paid. What sounds spontaneous can take literally hours of work to plan and execute, and they may be getting the big bucks because they are very competent at making planned material sound spontaneous. "Winging it" may work for a few months, but it can't be done every day without the material becoming repetitive and dull.

"Airshift" does not equate to "workday."

Islander: for music formats that are intended to appeal to a younger demographic and feature hot, new music, the "power rotation" can be as brief as 90 minutes. Gold-based formats usually have longer rotations; my Classic Country "powers" turned over every 36 hours. A station that played the sames songs at the same time every day would eventually drive away hardcore fans because "they play the same songs all the time" when it amounts to the station playing the same songs when those particular listeners are tuned in. If a song plays in a particular hour of a particular shift today, it should not play in that hour of that shift until it has played in every other hour of that shift, so it should not play again in that hour for three or four days. If you hear otherwise, someone is not taking care of their music director responsibilities. A shame, but not unbelievable, as local and national broadcast companies cut labor costs to the bone (hey, I'm on the beach!)

About sequences on tape (or otherwise recorded): in the '70s we played 45s. In he '80s and '90s we played CDs. The industry standard these days is for each song to be an individual file (mp2 or mp3) on a computer. Scheduling software determines the sequence and "virtual studio" software plays it, sometimes without human intervention for days and even weeks at a time. Such is the state of "the most intimate medium."

Bitter? What makes you think I'm bitter?

[Portia]

Wow, MP3's. No more 1/2 backward spin on the 33 to segue into the next song, eh? I never once used a CD, just tapes, 45's, 33's and carts.
Also, I am very old.

[BJMoose]

DJs really got a workout in the old days, constantly cueing records, pulling, playing and reracking audio carts containing the commercials and station jingles, logging all the commercials when they played (and writing up an explanation when they didn't), paying enough attention to the transmitter to keep the FCC happy, answering the request line. . . .

Yes, FupDuc DJs don't do diddly.


A five-minute pre-recorded "bit" can take hours to pre-produce.

[Islander]

Originally Posted by Portia

Wow, MP3's. No more 1/2 backward spin on the 33 to segue into the next song, eh? I never once used a CD, just tapes, 45's, 33's and carts.
Also, I am very old.

Wow, nostalgia! I remember cueing 33s, from when I was teaching music.
Also, I am older than you.

[Portia]

Originally Posted by Islander

Also, I am older than you.

In your day you cued up rocks to bang together, right?

[Solfy]

I had a friend in college whose life's ambition was to become a DJ in a prime time slot in a major market top 40 station. He had natural talent oozing out his pores and a family history in the radio business. He was DJing weddings in high school and recording shows in his father's basement studio for fun as a kid. Radio was/is his life. He dropped out of college to follow his dream (and because colleges aren't in the business of supplying classes for people to not attend). We met in the college's "radio" station booth (not really radio - just crappy coax into the student union that more often than not wasn't turned on so we were broadcasting into nothingness but I digress) when our shifts overlapped.

Roughly eight years later he landed the afternoon drive time in a top station in NYC. He was in my city briefly. He's moved every year or two, crisscrossing his way around the country to claw his way up the market, taking crappy time slots at somewhat crummy stations and paying his dues. I've never asked outright, but I get the impression that there are a lot of hours involved, particularly doing remotes. To get where he is, his whole life had to revolve around radio for the past ten years, and I imagine there's plenty of DJs who'd love to take his spot so he can't likely let his guard down now that he's arrived. It's a competitive job, if not physically strenuous.

[tunaman]

Originally Posted by 73 LeBaron

It may be that you are in a metropolitan mega-market where the morning talent makes seven figures and has an off-air staff to plan and write their material...

Heh. The unintentionally funniest thing I ever heard on the radio had to do with DJ salaries.

There used to be an alternative station in Atlanta called 99X. They had a morning show featuring 3 idiots known as Barnes, Leslie and Jimmy (it was basically a "morning zoo" type show, although slightly more sedate... because it was "alternative", see?). Anyway, because the station seemed to be aimed at the 12-24 year-old demographic, they had a career advisor on one morning to talk about which jobs would be hot in the next few years and which ones would be cooling off.

At one point, one of the DJs jokingly asked about DJ jobs, and the conversation that followed went something like this:

Career Advisor: "Well, I know you were making a joke, but radio is a small market with a lot of competition. Now, take people like Neal Boortz or Clark Howard... they have syndicated shows and both have a base salary of over $300,000 a year and..."
All 3 DJs: "WHAT?!?"
Career Advisor: "Yes, their base salaries are over $300,000 and..."
Barnes: "You're kidding..."
Leslie: "You're joking..."
Career Advisor: "Ummmm, no. But that's only their base salary. With appearances and performances bonuses their salaries can be significantly more, and..."
Barnes: "Are you serious?"
Leslie: (whining) "But we only make $38,000 a year!"
Career Advisor: "Actually, that's much closer to normal. You're actually making slightly above average, since you're in Atlanta."
[several seconds of dead air]
Jimmy: "$300,000?"
Barnes: "OK, well, thanks for coming on the show, Ms. [name]. We'll be back after these messages."

The stunned reaction and the subsequent dead air was priceless.

I find it hard to believe that these people - who were household names in much of Atlanta - were completely ignorant of the fact that Clark Howard and Neal Boortz were making that kind of money. But their stunned reactions seemed completely genuine, and if they were acting, let me say that it was Oscar-worthy.

Of course, Leslie is a freakin' radio DJ who had no idea who Paul Harvey was*, so who knows.

* - Barnes once read an especially cheesy news story and Jimmy ended it with a Harvey-style "Good day!", which made Barnes laugh out loud, and Leslie asked why they were laughing, which only made Barnes and Jimmy laugh harder. They eventually explained to her that Paul Harvey was a radio pioneer that had been on the air for 45+ years at that point. Leslie - who had been on the radio for at least 5 years at this point - said something like "look, I don't know who this Paul Harding guy is and why you think it's so funny, but..."

[Zeener Diode]

I'm going to put on FM & AM by George Carlin.

[Pencil]

Originally Posted by 73 LeBaron

but corporate radio is changing, and not in a good way.

Tell me about it. The owners are scared and chasing costs and by streamlining and downsizing they're making radio less and less relevant to people. We've survived every major paradigm shift since the 1920's and it seems as if radio is now killing itself. Kids don't listen to radio, they have iPods.

Speaking of salaries, I know for a fact that WGNs Bob Collins negotiated a $1M annual base salary when he took over the morning drive from Wally Phillips back in... oh '86 was it? And he showed up in his Porsche* five minutes before air time and was out of the door the second his last commercial break started. WGN had a whole staff that pandered to his needs.



*Vanity plates: Segue

[73 LeBaron]

Yep. Atlanta is not nearly the radio town that Chicago is, and adult alternative is not WGN.

[rhythmonly]

Back when I was going to broadcasting school (think Bay Area; 1980's), the DJ's had audio carts to keep track of, and played 33 1/3 LPs on granite-based turntables. I notice these days that some of the DJ's are doing a lot of voice overs.

Is this a nation wide thing? Is there enough of a market for voice overs now, or are these folks just supplementing their incomes?

And in case you were listening to KRQR back then, and wondered who bumped the turntable during the intro of Hotel California, causing the needle to skip all of the way to the end of the song......it was me.

[McNutty]

Originally Posted by rhythmonly

(think Bay Area; 1980's)
...
And in case you were listening to KRQR back then, and wondered who bumped the turntable during the intro of Hotel California, causing the needle to skip all of the way to the end of the song......it was me.

"Cause you'll never know what YOU can DO ... until you TRY!"

[Anacanapuna]

Originally Posted by Portia

Wow, MP3's. No more 1/2 backward spin on the 33 to segue into the next song, eh? I never once used a CD, just tapes, 45's, 33's and carts.
Also, I am very old.

Naw, you just worked in a radio station when you were six, that's all. But then, I'll bet you could slip-cue with the best of 'em!

[Islander]

Originally Posted by Portia

In your day you cued up rocks to bang together, right?

Well, actually, no, we stapled animal hides onto hollow logs and chanted.

But we had to smash our own hydrogen and oxygen atoms together to make water.

[Portia]

Originally Posted by Islander

Well, actually, no, we stapled animal hides onto hollow logs and chanted.

But we had to smash our own hydrogen and oxygen atoms together to make water.

You had oxygen atoms! Luxurious technology we could only have dreamed of in my day.

[Islander]

Originally Posted by Portia

You had oxygen atoms! Luxurious technology we could only have dreamed of in my day.

Yeah, well, we had to invent quantum mechanics and weaving before we could even make nets to catch them with. Life was no bowl of cherries—come to think of it, they hadn't been invented either.

[Uthrecht]

Originally Posted by Islander

Yeah, well, we had to invent quantum mechanics and weaving before we could even make nets to catch them with. Life was no bowl of cherries—come to think of it, they hadn't been invented either.

"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you first must invent the universe."

-- Carl Sagan

[Islander]

I adore Carl Sagan. The Universe misses him.


ETA: that reminds me of a joke that I've mostly forgotten so I know I'll mess it up. Maybe a smart person will come along who can tell it right.
A scientist gets a bit above himself and gets into an argument with God. He claims that with today's technology, he could start from scratch and create some one-celled organism that would evolve into a fully human being. God takes him on and they make a bet. The scientist bends over to scoop up a handful of primordial mud and God says, "No, no! Get your own dirt!"