Maine referendum question 1 creates gay havoc

Islander · #1 16th October 2009, 01:13 PM

Earlier this year the state legislature passed a Gay Marriage law. A few dingleberries got a hair up their ass and said That's not right, you need to let the people decide these burning issues! Their "side" managed to get enough petition signatures to put the question on this November's referendum. Question #1 asks whether I want to repeal the Gay Marriage law. My answer, of course, is No. A few years ago we went through a similar scenario with a non-discrimination bill, which the voters did pass.

Now the revisiting of the gay rights issue is heating up. Sadly, it's my school district in the center of the brouhaha. I know all these people; I've worked with them. I know the superintendent as well; I sat on the school board for ten years. I sent a letter of support to the "gay activist" but I'm waffling on what to send the counselor...maybe a bag of burning dog shit on his front step?

Story here. Suggestions welcome.

Zeener Diode · #2 16th October 2009, 01:25 PM

A situation like this calls for voodoo.

Zeener Diode · #3 16th October 2009, 01:30 PM

I like the guy's response to the value of equality with "all children have the right to a mother and father."

Islander · #4 16th October 2009, 01:56 PM

I agree that we all have a right to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, health care and occasional chocolate. A mother and a father? Not so much. Further, a great many of us have grown up to be well-adjusted adults in single-parent or same-sex families.

Uthrecht · #5 16th October 2009, 02:07 PM

So, is he saying that if you cannot afford a mother and a father, one will be provided at State expense?

I'm not sure I like the sound of this Socialist fellow.

Islander · #6 16th October 2009, 02:23 PM

Nol no, he's saying if you have two mommies or two daddies, it's "against natural law." God will punish them. Or something.

I don't like the sound of it either, and my fingers are itching to compose my first hate mail.

john ingram · #7 16th October 2009, 02:42 PM

I dunno. The one guy that I know who was raised by two daddies is fucking nuts now. Not well adjusted at all.

SmartAleq · #8 16th October 2009, 02:50 PM

I had a mommy and a daddy and look how well that turned out for me!

Uthrecht · #9 16th October 2009, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Islander

Nol no, he's saying if you have two mommies or two daddies, it's "against natural law." God will punish them. Or something.

No, I'm reading it as if you have only one parent, or two of the same, you get an opposing one assigned. Kind of like a variant of Big Brothers, Big Sisters.

It's nice and all, but I think the State should keep out of that sort of thing. Best to be handled by private non-profits.

Khampelf · #10 16th October 2009, 03:29 PM

No, no. He's saying anyone raised by a same sex couple can sue their parents for violating their right to a hetero couple.

Islander · #11 16th October 2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uthrecht

No, I'm reading it as if you have only one parent, or two of the same, you get an opposing one assigned. Kind of like a variant of Big Brothers, Big Sisters.

It's nice and all, but I think the State should keep out of that sort of thing. Best to be handled by private non-profits.

I like the way your mind works. You're feeding me ideas for my yet-to-be-composed hate letter. Well okay, not hate. I'm no good at that. Flame letter? Rich with sarcasm?

jayjay · #12 20th October 2009, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Islander

I like the way your mind works. You're feeding me ideas for my yet-to-be-composed hate letter. Well okay, not hate. I'm no good at that. Flame letter? Rich with sarcasm?

Careful, there. Wingnuts are notoriously bad at detecting sarcasm or irony. He may end up thinking you're a supporter.

Uthrecht · #13 21st October 2009, 04:54 PM

I was just passed this Youtube link of a gentleman's testimony with regards to Maine's equality bill on April 22, 2009.

Islander · #14 21st October 2009, 05:49 PM

Wow, Uthrecht. That gives me goosebumps.

Maine met a similar challenge a few years back with another referendum question: no discrimination on the basis of gender orientation. At the moment, polls show the Gay Marriage question equally split, 48-48. The decider will be, who's motivated enough to get out and vote on November 3.

I'm in a conservative McCain-Palin area and there are YES ON 1 lawn signs all around me. Yesterday I scored a NO ON 1 sign and today it stands proudly by the roadside. We have to let 'em know we're here...and some of us are queer...and dammit, we deserve to be married, divorced, and mizzuble just like the rest of the world!

Uthrecht · #15 21st October 2009, 05:53 PM

Someone needs to explain to these people that it's only morally right to let gays marry.

If they're having sex otherwise, they're living in sin.

Islander · #16 21st October 2009, 06:04 PM

The Yes people belong to a group called STAND FOR MARRIAGE. How ironic is that!?

Do we need an irony smiley?

Anacanapuna · #17 22nd October 2009, 11:49 AM

I have just two opinions:

1. People who think everything they hate should be voted on by referendum, and then play with the referendum language to trick people into voting their way, are insecure, frightened, unintelligent boobs who need to be monitored closely and not allowed very close to children.

2. Gay Havoc is a great band name.

Salambo · #18 22nd October 2009, 12:32 PM

I say screw it all and move to New Brunswick.

But no, seriously, I have a very, very difficult time arguing with people who feel that hetero marriage is the only... what? Right thing? How? It doesn't result in more successful marriages, it doesn't create happy families, it doesn't... fucking... work! Why can't we allow people who love each other to have access to the same rights and tax brackets as anyone else? And the hyperbolising, with the "why not let people marry goats" or what the fuck ever. Why does society so desperately need to belittle and dehumanize each other somehow?

Yeah, I'm not going to be any help, here. I'm all over the place. I just get way too angry*. I don't like to hate people, and people who are so disagreeable and self-righteous, well, I just have to steer clear. They're people, too, and they see me the same way. And they came to their twisted little opinions somehow. I always think, wish, hope, I could find the perfect words to convey why treating fellow human beings as less than... other humans is ridiculous and wrong, but I know many and better before me have tried... and I feel tiny, and hopeless, and sad.

* - My own mother. My own mother is against it. I can't even begin.

Islander · #19 22nd October 2009, 12:35 PM

I listened to a call-in show today on public radio. I didn't try to phone in because (1) unless you call in the first 5 minutes, all the lines are busy and callers end up on hold for the duration of the show, and (2) it red-lines my blood pressure. Half my state is powered by ignorance and fear.

WednesdayAddams · #20 26th October 2009, 04:02 PM

In which 538 makes me giggle: Arguments Against Gay Marriage Literally Stop Making Sense (not that they made sense to me to begin with).

Quote:

So, paraphrasing somewhat, the arguments that the Yes on 1 campaign seems to be making are as follows:

1. The new law won't make gay marriage equal to straight marriage. Instead, it will create a new kind of marriage in which gay people and straight people are equal.
2. Although we may not have proven any connection between gay marriage and public education, our opponents haven't disproven the connection, and it's their fault that the subject came up.
3. If gay marriage is upheld, then marriage will exist solely to make people happy.

These arguments run from the literally incoherent (#1) to the sublimely unpersuasive (#3), with #2 somewhere in between. Yet, they are, apparently, the best arguments that the Yes on 1 folks can muster -- the ones they're using to close out their campaign.

Islander · #21 26th October 2009, 05:24 PM

This is the show I was referring to in my previous post. I did listen, but I can't recall a single point because they were all so asinine. When the YES people talk about "teaching gay marriage in schools," what they're referring to is children's books like Johnny has Two Daddies (not an exact title but there's a book out there with a similar title). This sort of under-the-radar perversion of young minds is part of the "gay agenda," you see.
I have to stop now. I can feel my blood pressure rising. I gotta be more Zen.

BTW, polls show it's not looking good for the rational side.

Xan · #22 3rd November 2009, 07:34 PM

According to Bangor Daily News Yes is winning 51.66% to 48.34% with 64% of precincts reporting in.

mlerose · #23 3rd November 2009, 07:37 PM

Xan · #24 3rd November 2009, 08:02 PM

Yes is still winning. Fuck.

Inner Stickler · #25 3rd November 2009, 09:08 PM

Big whoop. So they get a law repealed. Whatevs. It will be undone again in a few years. The scales are almost even and the side that's growing is not the one that's currently winning.

Guess what, homophobes? Your era is ending. My generation doesn't give a flying fuck what you care about. Your morals are twisted and your values corrupt and we don't want them. And every piece of hate, every spit of venom and bile you lash out with we will return tenfold when you are lying, crippled, in nursing homes. So enjoy the rest of your hateful life because whatever exists out there afterwards will not give you the welcome you think you're getting.

Xan · #26 4th November 2009, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Stickler

Big whoop. So they get a law repealed. Whatevs. It will be undone again in a few years. The scales are almost even and the side that's growing is not the one that's currently winning.

Guess what, homophobes? Your era is ending. My generation doesn't give a flying fuck what you care about. Your morals are twisted and your values corrupt and we don't want them. And every piece of hate, every spit of venom and bile you lash out with we will return tenfold when you are lying, crippled, in nursing homes. So enjoy the rest of your hateful life because whatever exists out there afterwards will not give you the welcome you think you're getting.

I'm not so optimistic.

Islander · #27 4th November 2009, 06:48 AM

I stayed up late last night, only to see that it was looking grim. Sure enough, the outcome was predictable: we lost by a small margin. Fear is a powerful motivator and by god they pushed it hard: "They'll teach your children about gay marriage in school whether you like it or not." I think that in my long life, this is the first time I could truly feel justified in calling someone LIAR. Every education official in the state gave that statement a huge denial, but the homophobes weren't having it.

If history is any indication, this will be revisited in 2-3 years. The same thing happened with the law forbidding discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation: failed initially, brought back via referendum a few years later and passed. Mainers are generally pretty progressive. After all, we did pass the expanded medical marijuana law yesterday. Hmm...maybe I can get licensed to grow for the trade?

Fromage A Trois · #28 4th November 2009, 06:51 AM

Maybe if more of the population smoked weed they'd be less uptight about gay marriage.

Uthrecht · #29 4th November 2009, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Islander

Mainers are generally pretty progressive. After all, we did pass the expanded medical marijuana law yesterday. Hmm...maybe I can get licensed to grow for the trade?

Well, they're at least 47% progressive, I suppose.

whirlingbladesofkick · #30 4th November 2009, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Stickler

Big whoop. So they get a law repealed. Whatevs. It will be undone again in a few years. The scales are almost even and the side that's growing is not the one that's currently winning.

Guess what, homophobes? Your era is ending. My generation doesn't give a flying fuck what you care about. Your morals are twisted and your values corrupt and we don't want them. And every piece of hate, every spit of venom and bile you lash out with we will return tenfold when you are lying, crippled, in nursing homes. So enjoy the rest of your hateful life because whatever exists out there afterwards will not give you the welcome you think you're getting.

Yes, this.

Also, and I do NOT mean this to come across as victim blaming in any way, but now is the time: gay people must become even more comfortable being out and visible in the community. Time and again it's shown that places where the non-gay population has normal everyday exposure to the non-straight population (e.g., known gay people in every level of profession/job/government and in all roles in a community) there is more acceptance and less resistance/fear/hate.

Things are changing, I agree with IS, it's only a matter of time. But I feel like we who are committed to equal protection under the law for all US citizens must be very vocal about it. Defeats must galvanize us, not crush us.

The Superhero · #31 4th November 2009, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Things are changing, I agree with IS, it's only a matter of time. But I feel like we who are committed to equal protection under the law for all US citizens must be very vocal about it. Defeats must galvanize us, not crush us.

"Human progress is neither automatic nor inevitable... Every step toward the goal of justice requires sacrifice, suffering, and struggle; the tireless exertions and passionate concern of dedicated individuals." - MLK

Darmund · #32 4th November 2009, 08:06 AM

Sex with ducks and gay marriage are one and the same.

wring · #33 4th November 2009, 08:06 AM

But it does progress. I belong to the generation where there were few (if any) open marriages where the man and thw woman had different colored skin. There were laws agin it as well in some areas. My folks were fairly openly racists (as many of their contemporaries were). My school was 99.9% white (we had one family who was hispanic and two Asians iirc). Now, even that area is much more mixed. My son went to school w/folks of every combination. It didn't take hundreds of years. And I see the tide turning again. Wish it were quicker.