SDMB bitchfest (continued)...

[Hunter Hawk]

I believe the notable Dr. Keillor has spent years documenting this effect.

[Zombies!]

Originally Posted by Burnt Toast

What I wonder is what they mean by 'getting in trouble.' Were they sent to the principal's office and given detention, or did the teacher just say, "Stop reading and finish your work" ?
As you said, I think there's a disconnect; they automatically go to the "OPPRESSING TEH LITERATI!!" idea.

For me it was all a matter of degrees.

When I was caught reading in a class where I wasn't known as a troublemaker, it was "Siobhan, you can read in your break/in another class"

In classes where I had an overarching pattern of other behaviour, then it could end up in being detention.

But again, it was all relative. I wasn't getting in trouble for reading expressly, I was getting in trouble for not doing the tasks I was given. Therein is the difference.

[Veb]

Hi, my name is Veb and I've been mediocre all my life.

::waves cheerfully::

I didn't learn to read until kindergarten. Same with writing. Had to use those really thick pencils and paper with lines about 3" apart too. I was even known to break crayons. Didn't read Shakespeare until my teens, much less in infancy.

I was not a prodigy of any kind. I did learn to play a musical instrument (trumpet) in grade school. I enjoyed it and didn't sound much more horrible than the rest of my classmates. I've always sucked at math. My parents were okay with my not being a genius so I've stumbled along fairly happily in life just doing the best I can.

[Fenris]

But Veb! Were you a National Merit Scholarship Winner?

And how the fuck does someone "teach themselves" to read at age three? I have no doubt that 3 year olds can probably be taught to read, but...c'mon. If it were that easy to just "teach yourself" to read, we wouldn't have needed The Rosetta Stone, would we? Reading involves some pretty abstract concepts that can be taught without too much trouble but really aren't all that intuitive.

[mlerose]

I learned to read at around age 3 by way of those "when the chime rings, turn the page" book/tape combinations that were popular in the early 80s. My parents had very little to do with it. I ended up skipping 2nd grade as a result of my early reading capabilities, which mostly resulted in social ostracism. Now I'm 30 and the fact that I learned to read at 3 rather than at 5 has no bearing on my life whatsoever.

[severe delays]

It's not that unusual for young children to know how to read but the crucial thing is that they mostly forget how to do it as they learn other skills and need to be taught formally at a later point. For those scoffing at the idea of young children reading you might consider that in the UK it is common for 4 year olds to go to formal educational institutions. For what it's worth I was one of them and I could certainly read at an acceptable-for-primary-one level before I was five. In the UK nursery school children (I think that's about pre-K level in the USA) will ideally have some reading ability by the time they start school though this is limited to recognising their own names and being able to name "some" letters of the alphabet. I believe this is a national requirement for 4 year olds - I can rummage around and dig out more info on that if anyone is remotely interested.

I haven't read the entire thread but what seems to be going on here is two groups of people - one lot who could read at younger ages than people think is within the norm. The other group seems to be of the variety that learnt to read then forgot - they appear to be basing their assertions mostly on memories of their fond mamas and doting papas which does rather lead others to be skeptical. I've absolutely no doubt that young children can recognise a variety of words and symbols and I've also no doubt that they can memorise oft-read stories so that it appears they know how to read properly. Whether this counts as *knowing* how to read I'm not sure - it certainly doesn't fit within my definition but I wouldn't necessarily say that anyone claiming to have been able to recognise and say written words at 18 months or 2 years was inventing it.

[Veb]

Originally Posted by Fenris

Reading involves some pretty abstract concepts that can be taught without too much trouble but really aren't all that intuitive.

To be honest I caught onto reading very fast but IMO a huge part of that was my parents read to me. Every Sunday my dad would plop me on his lap while he read the paper. (Divorce situation so Dad having us on weekends was a huge deal to him.) He'd read aloud while he ran his finger under the text. Of course most of the content flew right over my head until we got to the best part: the comics, or as my dad called them, the funnies.

Once teachers connected the shapes (letters) with sounds for me then it was just a matter of boosting vocabulary. But it took teachers to supply the basic mechanics. My dad especially laid a solid groundwork but yeah, teachers outlined the conceptual leaps.

[wring]

Originally Posted by mlerose

. I ended up skipping 2nd grade as a result of my early reading capabilities,.

My elementary school had a way to allow 'good readers' to advance in reading only, so I was in the grade ahead's reading... until they decided that since my goddam workbook for 5th grade reading was messy (cursive handwriting and I never really got along well), I had to re-do the entire fucking year. Goddam bureucrats.

[mlerose]

Yeah, it was basically me skip a grade or me be bored as hell for most of elementary school. I lived in a tiny town; the only school had one classroom per grade and no money/resources for enrichment curriculum or anything. It was Quite Obvious that I ended first grade one year and went to third grade the next, and the particular crop of 3rd graders were mostly mean girls and kids who had been held back, so many of them were two years older and a lot bigger. Things didn't get any better for me until we moved to a new town in the summer before 6th grade, in which I wasn't even the youngest kid in my class anymore.

Also, wring, I never did well in penmanship either and those were always the worst marks on my report card. I still don't write cursive unless I absolutely have to.

[Uthrecht]

Originally Posted by wring

Goddam bureucrats.

Yeah, I know, right? Insisting on proper style and spelling for everything.

[Who_me?]

I honestly don't remember when I started to read. I do remember the flash cards my mother used to teach me though. I also remember my parents giving up on spelling to each other to keep my brother and I in the dark when they wanted to.

This stopped when my mother was suggesting getting P-i-z-z-a for dinner one evening while in the car. I worked it out in my little head and endorsed the idea loudly and immediately.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by Uthrecht

Yeah, I know, right? Insisting on proper style and spelling for everything.

Penmanship !=style or spelling.

If she was writing coherent paragraphs and spelled stuff correctly, then yeah, holding her back for mere penmanship (which I still don't have) is stupid.

[Taur]

I seem to recall the first book I ever read was about some boy named Dick and his friend Jane. They did a lot of running. Spot the dog was my favourite.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by TVeblen

To be honest I caught onto reading very fast but IMO a huge part of that was my parents read to me. Every Sunday my dad would plop me on his lap while he read the paper.

< snip >

Once teachers connected the shapes (letters) with sounds for me then it was just a matter of boosting vocabulary. But it took teachers to supply the basic mechanics. My dad especially laid a solid groundwork but yeah, teachers outlined the conceptual leaps.

Yeah, but this isn't the "Teaching yourself to read like Baby Lord Greystoke with a trunk full of books, whilst living amongst the gorillas in Africa" thing that Dopers brag about.

My folks read to me nightly, ALWAYS gave books as part of Hannukkah or Birthday presents, etc and I had some great teachers for the first few years--and I caught onto reading quickly and early as well. But what Dopers claim is that they barely could walk when they toddled over to daddum's bookshelf and was immediately reading William Makepeace Thackery or James Joyce with no help at all. I can buy Tarzan doing that*, but not so much anyone else.


*No, really. The "Me Tarzan...you....Jane!" thing came from the movies. In the books, he's pretty damned urbane. He taught himself to read by pure MENTAL INTUITION! and speaks like 30 languages (including Gorilla, Ant-People and Hollow-Earthian). Breeding will out, dontcha know.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by Board Taurus

I seem to recall the first book I ever read was about some boy named Dick and his friend Jane. They did a lot of running. Spot the dog was my favourite.

You fool-- Puff the Cat was clearly the protagonist--Puff's subtle manipulations drive the story and Dick and Jane (and Spot) are mere foils...puppets if you will...to Puff's machinations.

Without Puff to drive the action, Dick and Jane would have done nothing!

[Guinastasia]

Didn't Lib once say the first book he remembers reading was Madame Bovary?

Originally Posted by wring

My elementary school had a way to allow 'good readers' to advance in reading only, so I was in the grade ahead's reading... until they decided that since my goddam workbook for 5th grade reading was messy (cursive handwriting and I never really got along well), I had to re-do the entire fucking year. Goddam bureucrats.

Originally Posted by Uthrecht

Yeah, I know, right? Insisting on proper style and spelling for everything.

Tell me about it. Apparently, some of them don't even teach reading comprehension!!!

Originally Posted by TVeblen

To be honest I caught onto reading very fast but IMO a huge part of that was my parents read to me. Every Sunday my dad would plop me on his lap while he read the paper. (Divorce situation so Dad having us on weekends was a huge deal to him.) He'd read aloud while he ran his finger under the text. Of course most of the content flew right over my head until we got to the best part: the comics, or as my dad called them, the funnies.

Once teachers connected the shapes (letters) with sounds for me then it was just a matter of boosting vocabulary. But it took teachers to supply the basic mechanics. My dad especially laid a solid groundwork but yeah, teachers outlined the conceptual leaps.

Yep -- my mother read to me alot as well -- I also used to play tons of games of Monopoly with my parents. It's true that reading to kids IS a big factor when it comes to learning. (I started reading Beverly Cleary books in second grade and it kind of grew from there)

On the other hand, despite Monopoly, I STILL suck at math. I was ruthless, even if I never was able to beat my dad.

I was always great at English and art, but my math grades sucked. I could do the basics, but I just absolutely sucked. I still loathe math.

Same in high school -- my grades in English, art, and history were awesome, but I struggled along in math.

I think we had someone at the Dope once say that people who claimed to hate math were just lazy and stupid, and apparently spoiled. Or something like that. as well as physically.

[wring]

Originally Posted by Uthrecht

Yeah, I know, right? Insisting on proper style and spelling for everything.

I've never claimed to be a good speller. The only time I point out others bad spelling is when it's funny. As I suppose this example is. And, for the record, generally, I put off bad spelling in my posts to:

Really poor eyesight (can't always see the difference between certain typed letters), bad spelling, a crappy wireless keyboard (at home), and now we can add, "my finger hurts" to the mix.

[Guinastasia]

BTW, what is so special about the National Merit Scholarship? When I was a senior in high school, our school won the "Blue Ribbon School" award, and we used to joke about it all the time. (Mostly because it meant we got blueberry tarts in the cafeteria, instead of cherry.) It was supposedly a HUGE deal.

[Tamerlane]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

BTW, what is so special about the National Merit Scholarship?

You could actually get non-National Merit Scholarship scholarships for doing well on the National Merit exams. I did extremely well on the test, good enough to be one of two semi-finalists from my High School ( the one and only time my picture ever appeared in a newspaper ! I was a "sober, dark-haired youth" ). But my grades were utterly unimpressive due to my outstanding laziness, so that was as far as it went. But when it came time to apply for college I found certain schools would give you cash just for having made the semi-finals. Usually they were absurdly expensive small private liberal arts schools where a couple of grand didn't go that far. But one exception was the then relatively cheap University of Houston, which I came very close to attending for that very reason.

In the end I didn't though. Because it was in Houston.

[Xploder]

I learned to read at a VERY young age...I think around 4 or so, but only because my Dad had been reading to us wince I was born pretty much. I remember him reading The Lord Of The Rings to us in bits and pieces as it was serialized in the paper.

I also remember picking up various musical instruments stupid easy as my Mom played piano her whole life and my Dad played in the Flint Concert band as well as being a consultant for the Flint Symphony Orchestra. He was more interested in playing swing music than orchestral stuff.

I really wish that I HAD learned to play a wind instrument but I never did.

[Sybarite]

I don't remember learning to read either, but I had a mother who was a teacher, I come from a family of readers, and I have two older siblings - all kids want to do is what their older sibs are doing, so I'm guessing my early reading was more a result of this than my innate incredibleness. Which is not to discount my innate incredibleness - it's still pretty incredible.

[elmwood]

Originally Posted by Fenris

My folks read to me nightly, ALWAYS gave books as part of Hannukkah or Birthday presents, etc and I had some great teachers for the first few years--and I caught onto reading quickly and early as well. But what Dopers claim is that they barely could walk when they toddled over to daddum's bookshelf and was immediately reading William Makepeace Thackery or James Joyce with no help at all. I can buy Tarzan doing that*, but not so much anyone else.

Same thing here. I was an early reader, my parents read quite a bit to me, mom took me to the library every couple of weeks, and I watched a lot of Sesame Street. However, I was reading children's books, and when I was 6 or so, children's non-fiction books. Fun stuff like the Busy World of Richard Scarry and the Golden Book Encyclopedia. No Shakespeare, Yeats, physics textbooks, or Cervantes in the original Spanish.

Also, in 1st and 2nd grade, although I could read quite well, I had a hell of a time in English classes. Phonics exercises, diagramming sentences, and other exercises where I had to show my work: forget it. Also, I was in French classes from 1st to 6th grade, and remember almost none of it. I always had a terrible time learning foreign languages.

[Uthrecht]

Woo! Richard Scarry! I've been reading my daughter the books my parents got me.

[Khampelf]

My early reading only established my outsider misfit status from the first. In kindergarten, I was sent once a day to go read with the first graders. Later, in middle school, I was one letter ahead in the pre-programmed spelling/vocab workbooks. Interesting when giving spelling tests, she'd give the word for the C group, then the word for the D group, and when she read 'E', I could think, "That's just for Me! she might as well just call out my name. Then a couple other students made it into E, and I wasn't so unique any more.

[Taur]

You were de-snowflaked?

[Khampelf]

Originally Posted by Board Taurus

You were de-snowflaked?

Not until I was 17, more's the pity.

[Lord Blackmore]

Call me naive, but most of the moderators over there are fucking moron.

Complete. Fucking. Morons.

[Taur]

Heh. Welcome to the Raffe, taco.

[Inner Stickler]

Hi, naive!

[elmwood]

Not just one, but two "I could read before I was conceived" threads this week.

[Steerpike]

And now asterisks count as swearing too. The SDMB: ****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't.

[Detroit Hoser]

Originally Posted by Scissorjack

And now asterisks count as swearing too. The SDMB: ****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't.

Oooooooh. Angry Lurker will now always be stuck in my head as Angry Asterisks.

[Uthrecht]

Hedwig and the Angry Asterisk. Coming to Broadway soon.

[Steerpike]

Originally Posted by Detroit Hoser

Oooooooh. Angry Lurker will now always be stuck in my head as Angry Asterisks.

The original thread was pretty ****ing funny, too: What Would You Do If Your Cleaner Was Trying To Put A Curse On You? Uh, fire her or pay her better?

[Xploder]

You owe me a buck Burnt Toast

[Veb]

Originally Posted by Scissorjack

And now asterisks count as swearing too. The SDMB: ****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't.

Holy fucking crap. Welcome to NannyLand. It's like a Victorian novel. "D*** you to h***, v*****!" *

*I wonder if the antique 'varlet' would pass the censors? Man, that's a lot of asterisks.

[wring]

I'd comment, but I'm just a trouble maker.

[nonny too]

Originally Posted by TVeblen

Holy fucking crap. Welcome to NannyLand. It's like a Victorian novel. "D*** you to h***, v*****!" *

*I wonder if the antique 'varlet' would pass the censors? Man, that's a lot of asterisks.

Well that's where they're getting it wrong. You're supposed to use dashes, like they did in our high school copies of To Sir with Love. Asterisks are just asking for trouble.

[Steerpike]

I like the bit where Rico says Angry Lurker swore at someone and then claimed it was just a spelling error. You stupid aunt!

[The Futility of Nihilism]

Originally Posted by Scissorjack

I like the bit where Rico says Angry Lurker swore at someone and then claimed it was just a spelling error. You stupid aunt!

The next big thing at the SDMB: Deliberate spelling errors in order to skirt "Da Roolz". I look forward to suspensions for people posting things like, "Frock you, Dex!" and "Tom is full of snit!" and "Tuba you can nick my larry asterisk!"

Holy crap that sounds lame just typing it.

[Burnt Toast]

Originally Posted by Xploder

You owe me a buck Burnt Toast

I'll give ya fifty cents. It wasn't nearly as snarky as I was hoping for.
Go back and poke ruadh a bit. She claims to have been reading by the time she was 2 years and 4 months old. Or maybe Malleus, Incus, Stapes. He was tested at a "24th-grade level."

[elmwood]

Originally Posted by Scissorjack

And now asterisks count as swearing too. The SDMB: ****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't.

What about profanities in some Tolkien-invented language? Surely THAT must be acceptable, if not welcome, on the SDMB. Just make up something, italicize it, and when called on it say it's an insult in Sindarin or Quenya. You'll probably be asked to be a mod if you try this.

EDIT: I Googled for "tolkien language swearing" and the first link was a SDMB thread. It's times like this that call for a facepalm smiley.

EDit 2: Found LOTR language profaniites!

http://www.grey-company.org/Circle/l...se.htm#insults

I especially like this:

Much wind pours from your mouth: Antolle ulua sulrim

Post away, and become a SDMB celebrity loved by hundreds!

[hajario]

You'd probably get warned for not posting in English.

[elmwood]

Originally Posted by hajario

You'd probably get warned for not posting in English.

Yeah, but it's LOTR-speak. EVERYBODY on the SDMB loves Lord of the Rings, just like they all love Canada and Australia. Therefore, use Elvish must get the same kind of pass that Canada and Australia get in the "American culture and lifestyles are backwards and odd but European culture and lifestyles are progressive and superior" threads.

[Fenris]

By the way, for Liberaltarian watchers, crazy-assed "I'm moral* and no-one else is, so I'll see to it that my own special unique brand of ethics are adopted by everyone by board mandate. Because peaceful, honest people not engaged in force or fraud absolutely must be controlled by the government/mods--that's their duty after all and totally consistant with his libertarian philosophy.

Oh--and if you've ever been part of what Lib defines as a "pile on", you're the sort of person who'd beat tied up prisoners at Abu Graib and probably rapes puppies for fun.

Check out ATMB if you want to see a prime example of "Lib in his crazy moralist" phase. (The same phase that tried to get any non-sufficiently rabid mention of Andrew Jackson restricted to the pit, the same phase that got him a unique "no one can make fun of your name and ONLY your name" rule). It doesn't last long so catch it while you can.



*Pardon me..."ethical"(?)

[Steerpike]

Originally Posted by elmwood

You'll probably be asked to be a mod if you try this.

I tried moderating without a licence over there already; I got warned by Dex.

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by Fenris

By the way, for Liberaltarian watchers, crazy-assed "I'm moral* and no-one else is, so I'll see to it that my own special unique brand of ethics are adopted by everyone by board mandate. Because peaceful, honest people not engaged in force or fraud absolutely must be controlled by the government/mods--that's their duty after all and totally consistant with his libertarian philosophy.

Oh--and if you've ever been part of what Lib defines as a "pile on", you're the sort of person who'd beat tied up prisoners at Abu Graib and probably rapes puppies for fun.

Check out ATMB if you want to see a prime example of "Lib in his crazy moralist" phase. (The same phase that tried to get any non-sufficiently rabid mention of Andrew Jackson restricted to the pit, the same phase that got him a unique "no one can make fun of your name and ONLY your name" rule). It doesn't last long so catch it while you can.



*Pardon me..."ethical"(?)

Notice the "someone PMed me in support, but didn't want their name used". Also, his mention of Der Trihs again. (Which he did in the "Moderator Bias" thread). I don't like the guy either, but Lib really has an obsession with him.

(Also, what's up with his constant support of Carol Stream? You'd think Lib, of all people, would realize what a hateful cuntrag she is? Why hasn't she been banned by now?)

[Xploder]

Originally Posted by Burnt Toast

I'll give ya fifty cents. It wasn't nearly as snarky as I was hoping for.
Go back and poke ruadh a bit. She claims to have been reading by the time she was 2 years and 4 months old. Or maybe Malleus, Incus, Stapes. He was tested at a "24th-grade level."

Yeah I saw that. My ennui knows no bounds so YOU go do it.

[LurkMeister]

Originally Posted by Fenris

By the way, for Liberaltarian watchers, crazy-assed "I'm moral* and no-one else is, so I'll see to it that my own special unique brand of ethics are adopted by everyone by board mandate. Because peaceful, honest people not engaged in force or fraud absolutely must be controlled by the government/mods--that's their duty after all and totally consistant with his libertarian philosophy.

Oh--and if you've ever been part of what Lib defines as a "pile on", you're the sort of person who'd beat tied up prisoners at Abu Graib and probably rapes puppies for fun.

Check out ATMB if you want to see a prime example of "Lib in his crazy moralist" phase. (The same phase that tried to get any non-sufficiently rabid mention of Andrew Jackson restricted to the pit, the same phase that got him a unique "no one can make fun of your name and ONLY your name" rule). It doesn't last long so catch it while you can.



*Pardon me..."ethical"(?)

I started to read that thread and couldn't igure out WTF he was talking about. The thread title sounded like it was in support of what was done to CS, but his OP read like he was supporting CS's right to post whatever he/she wanted to, and that anyone who mocks CS is ...something.

At that point my eyes glazed over and I decided that I obviously needed glasses to understand what I was reading. Preferably two or three glasses. Of something highly alcoholic.

[Xploder]

...or acidic...