Fuck Trump and here's why.

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by Mr. Plumbean

Agree with that. And I personally do like Sanders, but I like him better as a senator than as a president. Or more to the point, better as a senator than as a symbolic presidential candidate.

Me, too. He can use his power best in the Senate, IMO.

[Mr. Plumbean]

Originally Posted by Nonny J. Nonnington III

And to continue with the FDR comparison, Sanders' banking reform platform was not unlike FDR signing the Glass-Steagal Act into law. Which led to safe and boring banking for decades. The repeal of the final restrictions of that systematically crippled act led to the financial collapse of 2007-2008. Expect Trump to do the same to Dodd-Frank. Lather, rinse, repeat.

No expect, he already did it.

[Nonny J. Nonnington III]

Originally Posted by Mr. Plumbean

No expect, he already did it.

Crap. It's so hard to keep up with each step of the systematic dismantlement of our country.

[Solfy]

ICE raids in six states.
Wasn't it Doyle who assured us before the election that non-racist Trump was only going to deport criminal illegal aliens and not random ones?

[Fenris]

I'm trying to find one non-evil thing every week or so that Trump may have done. And it's not easy.

I couldn't think of anything not-evil for this week but a potential not-evil (and maybe good) thing he's done is possibly killed the uber-retarded White House Press Correspondent's dinner where. The press should not be chummy with any administration and if he's killed the Press Dinner, this is actually a net plus for him. And if he has anyone in his inner circle who's not actually mentally challenged (I doubt it), they'll have him buy 30 or so tickets and not attend, because the charity (Journalism Scholarships, IIRC) is good

That said, I suspect President Cheeto will fuck up this opportunity to do a net positive thing.

[BJMoose]

This certainly says something about ***** since even Richard Nixon, fabled loather of the press, usually attended the things.

Besides, the Dinner really isn't his to kill, is it? They'll just go on without him.

[Random Precision]

One hour after Kellyanne Conway reports that 45 has "full confidence" in National Security Advisor Michael Flynn, Flynn resigns. NPR story here.

Originally Posted by Michael Flynn

"Unfortunately, because of the fast pace of events, I inadvertently briefed the Vice President Elect and others with incomplete information regarding my phone calls with the Russian Ambassador. I have sincerely apologized to the President and the Vice President, and they have accepted my apology."

I take it that in this contest "inadvertently" means "didn't think I'd get caught" and "full confidence" means "willing to fall on his sword to cover up my incompetence".

I'm guessing this is the first of many more "resignations" to come in the next couple of weeks. I just hope one of them is Steve Bannon and that his resignation comes with a prison sentence. Unlikely, but one can dream.

[Mr. Plumbean]

There's no fucking way nobody else knew or had anything to do with it.

[Pere]

I like how the NBC story said "Flynn does have supporters"... naming Konstantin Kosachev and Alexey Pushkov.

On the other hand, pathetically, Trumpies are still filling comment threads with pizza-email-Benghazi crap.

[Scuba Ben]

One of the Donald's advisors, and I can't find the name at the moment, was on lots of talk shows Sunday. His thesis, and this is probably a good paraphrase: The Donald's executive orders on national security matters (in this case meaning immigration issues) are "unreviewable" by the courts.

This should be treated as THE most dangerous position possible in America, or indeed any reasonable society. Once some element becomes accepted as not subject to court review, EVERYTHING becomes that element.

I wish I could point at my own post and yell "slippery slope!" But in a limited government, once one major break is made in that limit, the government is going to force that break as wide open as it can.

My exhibit A: Weimar Germany had Article 48 in its constitution allowing de facto martial law and suspension of rights for a suitable emergency. A certain infamous chancellor in 1933 got President Hindenburg to invoke the clause and suspend most civil rights; the chancellor's party then beat its rivals into submission (often literally) in the subsequent elections. With the parliament in his pocket and not about to stop him on anything, said chancellor proceeded to set the country and the whole world aflame.

[Borborygmi]

Stephen Miller is the name of the advisor on the Sunday morning circuit this past weekend. Scary dude.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Well, is there anyone who actually believes that the Russian Federation's ties to the administration are limited to just Michael Flynn?

Apparently he may even have been taking money from the Russians since 2015...



From the New York Times this morning: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/13/u...T.nav=top-news

[Scuba Ben]

WaPo has a few stories that Russian government officials and spokespeople are objecting to Flynn getting sacked.

I don't see why they'd be so upset if they had no hold on him.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

And, in a move that surprises no one...



Wikileaks! _{A wholly owned subsidiarity of the Russian General Staff Main Intelligence Directorate^TM}

[pickle berry]

Update:

Trump has just nuked the entire Galaxy for fun. That's how Super Evil Hitler he is. I fear for the safety of our children.

[Pencil]

I for one am horrified by the low grade quality of trolling these days. Terrible.

[Borborygmi]

Breaking news:

I just repeatedly stabbed pickle berry in the chest and stomach until he died. Sad.

[Pencil]

Originally Posted by Scuba Ben

I wish I could point at my own post and yell "slippery slope!" But in a limited government, once one major break is made in that limit, the government is going to force that break as wide open as it can.

I realize that it's easy for me to comment, sitting a little over 4k miles from D.C. but should your prediction hold true, then we're all fucked and that distance won't help at all. As embarrassing as the whole she-bang is, I'd be a lot more worried if a single person in Survivor: West Wing showed any type of skill or competence, in any area of government.

[AuntiePam]

Originally Posted by Borborygmi

Stephen Miller is the name of the advisor on the Sunday morning circuit this past weekend. Scary dude.

I hadn't heard of him until I saw Colbert's show last night. He is indeed scary. Miller promised/threatened to appear on any show at any time to defend whatever needs defending. Colbert challenged/invited him to appear on his show -- Miller seems crazy enough to accept.

Anyone else think Colbert has gotten about 100 times more political in his monologues since the inauguration?

[Jaglavak]

Originally Posted by Borborygmi

Sad.

Yeah no kidding. That's just poor workmanship there. One good strike is all it should take.

[Pencil]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

Anyone else think Colbert has gotten about 100 times more political in his monologues since the inauguration?

[45]I read that he's passed Fallon in the ratings game, since inauguration. Sad.[/45]

[Nonny J. Nonnington III]

Originally Posted by Borborygmi

Stephen Miller is the name of the advisor on the Sunday morning circuit this past weekend. Scary dude.

Some people call him the space cowboy. Some call him the gangster of love. Some people call him Maurice, cause he speaks of the pompitous of love.

[Pere]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

Anyone else think Colbert has gotten about 100 times more political in his monologues since the inauguration?

I've only seen a couple of his shows since then, but yes, seems like.

Which makes sense. We are in, I believe, one of the highest-leverage political situations of our lifetimes. Anyone who hasn't gotten more political, sometime between last summer and January 20, has gotten less relevant.

[AuntiePam]

Originally Posted by Pere

I've only seen a couple of his shows since then, but yes, seems like.

Which makes sense. We are in, I believe, one of the highest-leverage political situations of our lifetimes. Anyone who hasn't gotten more political, sometime between last summer and January 20, has gotten less relevant.

My husband would disagree. Every time a 45 action is reported on, he says "It's over! Get over it!" As if political discussion/fallout/feedback should end with an election.

I think a lot of Trump voters are behaving the same way. He'll mute the TV or change the channel any time someone makes a negative comment about Trump. I think part of it is that he doesn't want to believe he voted for the wrong candidate -- he only wants to hear positive things, and there's nothing positive going on!

Today he was all defensive about Flynn -- "Whatever he did couldn't have been such a big deal" -- until I pointed out that it must have been a big deal, since Trump asked him to resign.

He just doesn't think, which I suspect is true of most Trump supporters. It's gonna be a long four years.

[Pere]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

It's gonna be a long four years.

Yes. (My sympathies--I only have to work with Trump people, sometimes.)

I do have some hope that he'll quit in feckless frustration, or be forced out, before the term is up. British bookies are actually taking bets on the proposition (though, it must be said, also on far worse possibilities).

[JackieLikesVariety]

can someone explain what those odds mean for those of us who don't know

[Mr. Plumbean]

It means if you bet eleven bucks you win ten*. In other words, he has a better chance of getting ousted than lasting. But not really, it really means more people are betting on his getting ousted than betting against it. But people like to take gambling odds to mean real odds.

*You would actually get $21 but you risked eleven so ten is what you net.

[BJMoose]

They couldn't go even a month before a scandal forced out someone. That's gotta be a record.

[JackieLikesVariety]

In other words, he has a better chance of getting ousted than lasting. But not really, it really means more people are betting on his getting ousted than betting against it.

I know how I'd bet

[eleanorigby]

This is so sad. They can't even be intelligent or savvy in their incompetence. Nobody is running, much less minding, the store. Security conversations filmed on non-secure phones and posted to FB; talking tough to China after insulting them, backing down and now doing exactly what China wants, no investigation of Flynn et al (and don't tell me Pence didn't know all about this ahead of time; I don't believe it for a minute), his conflicts of interest (now even more complicated with China), only 2 pieces of legislation passed in the weeks he's been in office, and he's already been on a golf vacation.

We'd have more luck with Larry, Darryl and Darryl.

[sturmhauke]

What's sadder is that people are still defending these motherfuckers. I mean, they were all blatantly, hilariously corrupt the entire time, but no, it was more important to stick it to the Dems.

[Shmiogenes]

But Hillary used a private email server.

LOCK HER UP! LOCK HER UP!

[Simple Dog]

Heckuva job Comey.

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

and don't tell me Pence didn't know all about this ahead of time; I don't believe it for a minute

But he can say it in such a soothing voice, while shaking his head in bewilderment that you'd ask such a thing.

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

Today he was all defensive about Flynn -- "Whatever he did couldn't have been such a big deal" -- until I pointed out that it must have been a big deal, since Trump asked him to resign.

The hardest-core supporters are framing Flynn as an innocent victim, with his plight proving the need of a root-and-branch purge of the executive branch to prevent such disloyalty in the future.

[eleanorigby]

If he's an "innocent victim", FFS, who do they think is guilty? What IS it with the GOP and the adamant refusal to own anything? They will deny responsibility until the cows come home.

I'm waiting for them to make this Obama's or Hillary's "fault".

[Mr. Plumbean]

Because their base never holds them accountable. They ussed and themmed themselves into utter fealty to tyranny. "Liberal tears lol".

[Solfy]

I continue to hope that there's someone, somewhere, in a position of authority, who is quietly building a water-tight case for impeachment.
Sort of like how in my hometown the police would turn a blind eye to all the traffic at crack houses until they had about 30-50 people to round up and bust all at once.

[JackieLikesVariety]

Originally Posted by sturmhauke

What's sadder is that people are still defending these motherfuckers. I mean, they were all blatantly, hilariously corrupt the entire time, but no, it was more important to stick it to the Dems.

yep

[Clothahump]

Originally Posted by Scuba Ben

And yet the few Trump supporters who I've discussed this with think he's the best thing for this country since sliced bread. In fact, I am very much interested in @Clothahump's take on the fustercluck of the Donald's first few weeks.

If there had been one, I could comment on it. Since there hasn't been one, I can't.

[Colonel Plink]

Originally Posted by Clothahump

If there had been one, I could comment on it. Since there hasn't been one, I can't.

I think this far more of an answer than you intedned, man.

[Mr. Plumbean]

It's all FAKE NEWS right Clothy? No reason to be remotely worried. It's just the teachers, lawyers, judges, tweeters, immigrants, reporters, and pretty much anybody else that isn't a poorly educated white man lying to you out of avarice.

[Scuba Ben]

Originally Posted by Clothahump

If there had been one, I could comment on it. Since there hasn't been one, I can't.

I'll rephrase and ask again.

Clothahump, what is your opinion about multiple nominees for Cabinet positions being shown in their confirmation hearings to be totally unsuited for either the department's usual mission or for the department's very purpose?

Also, what is your opinion about the well-known executive order on immigration that heavily restricts Muslims (in all but name) from seven countries arriving into this country?

Also, what is your opinion about multiple White House people up to and including Donald himself making claims on national TV that have been quickly and easily proven false and then continuing to insist that their claims are accurate?

Also, what is your opinion about the administration's claim that their decisions on national security matters regarding immigration are, in their own words, not subject to judicial review?

[Mr. Plumbean]

Forget it. He's got his mouth firmly attached to the feeding tube and isn't even curious where the tube starts.

[Scuba Ben]

I know that's likely, Plumbean, just like most Trumpists won't change their views based on reasoned discourse.

Nevertheless, I have to try. I want to hold up the facts and get their opinions, I want to see if reasoned discourse is possible.

[Mr. Plumbean]

You're a better man than me.

[Solfy]

Originally Posted by Scuba Ben

Clothahump, what is your opinion about multiple nominees for Cabinet positions being shown in their confirmation hearings to be totally unsuited for either the department's usual mission or for the department's very purpose?

Also, what is your opinion about the well-known executive order on immigration that heavily restricts Muslims (in all but name) from seven countries arriving into this country?

Also, what is your opinion about multiple White House people up to and including Donald himself making claims on national TV that have been quickly and easily proven false and then continuing to insist that their claims are accurate?

Also, what is your opinion about the administration's claim that their decisions on national security matters regarding immigration are, in their own words, not subject to judicial review?

Can I try? I've read enough FB posts from my mother's aunts that I think I can nail the perspective:

- The nominees were carefully selected, highly-accomplished people who will ensure that the administration's mission is brought to fruition. All claims of incompetence are just butthurt whining by snowflake liberals.

- That EO was written based on countries selected by the Obama administration, not based on the fact that they're predominantly Muslim countries. We have people pouring over our borders by the minute, bent on wholesale annihilation of our American Way of Life^TM. We need extreme vetting to keep us safe. Prior to January, people just waltzed across the borders willy-nilly without so much as a by-your-leave. They come to this country and blow up our bowling alleys and take our jobs and collect welfare and health insurance and it's GOT TO STOP. Immigrants are all lazy leaches that do nothing but sit around and take up my hard-earned tax dollars that by rights should be going into the pockets of wealthy executives instead.

The EO is only a temporary travel inconvenience to keep us safer. After three months, the administration will have their Extreme Vetting process in place that will keep out 100% of all terrorists and let in all the nice Christians.

- Any claims contrary to what the White House is publicizing are part of a concerted effort on the part of Liberal Media to smear the hardworking members of the current administration. The inauguration broke attendance records - FACT. No one ever talked to Russia - FACT. Terrorists are attacking us at this very moment with no media coverage whatsoever - FACT. The only inaccurate claims are the ones being spread by liberal media. All of them. Together. Simultaneously.

-Donald Trump is our PRESIDENT. This is something you have to accept and get over, along with accepting that he is unerring, unquestionable, and omnipotent. He's the President, so it's unfair and wrong to question anything he says. There's no reason to question him because he has the country's best interests in mind and he alone knows exactly what is best for the country because of all of his business experience. He's going to keep ALL his campaign promises and make our country safer and bring back all the jobs, and everyone who is standing around crying about it has no reason to be so upset. They're just lazy and entitled.

[Scuba Ben]

Originally Posted by Mr. Plumbean

You're a better man than me.

I truly want to know why, in FSM's name, WHY? a Trumpist continues to support the Donald no matter what. Without some knowledge of that, there's no way to talk with them.

Clothy, I promise you I won't judge you on your answers. In this thread, at any rate. That would be ad hominem and not reasoned discourse.

[Scuba Ben]

Nicely done, Solfy. Your examples are probably pretty close to a mainstream Trumpst's view.

I read through your examples twice. The second time through, I added "so FUCK YOU!!" at the end of each statement. Adding that condescending invective actually made sense. Curious, eh?

[running coach]

I just saw in a comments section the best possible title.

SCROTUS( So-Called Ruler Of The United States )

That earns a 21 grin salute.

[Solfy]

Originally Posted by Scuba Ben

Nicely done, Solfy. Your examples are probably pretty close to a mainstream Trumpst's view.

I read through your examples twice. The second time through, I added "so FUCK YOU!!" at the end of each statement. Adding that condescending invective actually made sense. Curious, eh?

The third question in particular is illustrative. When your position is that facts themselves, not how they're interpreted or how accurate they may be, are something that you can decide to believe or not, you've abandoned all pretense of reasonable discourse.

[Mr. Plumbean]

And the utter hypocrisy of yelling about Clinton's email while happily ignoring/denying much more serious offenses from Trump. You know what Turtle? TRUMP DOESN'T CARE ABOUT YOU. Your loyalty is admirable but NONE OF THOSE PEOPLE CARE A WHIT ABOUT YOU. They are simply using your resentments to exploit you. And keep you too angry to ever see straight.