The 2016 Presidential Campaign

[Mr. Plumbean]

But there is still time to find out Trump actually ate a baby once and maybe several babies and time for a momentary outrage and then a gradual return from his Republican loyalists and the people who think eating babies is really OK, much better than having once sent a candid email.

[eleanorigby]

He could be found in bed with a dead hooker or a live boy and his supporters would still fawn all over him.

[running coach]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

He could be found in bed with a dead hooker or a live boy and his supporters would still fawn all over him.

Trump:She was dead when I got there! And I didn't grope her.

Pence: There was no boy.

[Zeener Diode]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

The emails don't bother me either.

I'd like to agree, but it's the number of deleted emails that resided on her private server that makes me think of Nixon and his refusal to turn over his tapes, and then erasing parts of them prior to turning them over. I know what Hillary did was not in the same magnitude of the numerous shady activities and subsequent cover-ups as Nixon recorded and I'd accept her as President over The Dark Lord Donaldmort, but it doesn't endear her to me.

[eleanorigby]

What of Colin Powell's emails--ALL gone. What of the Bush admin's emails--something like 22 million of them--POOF.

IMO, what happened was that email came along and nobody in our big, expensive government thought to think out policies on how to deal with emails, both private and public, to the extent that they should have. Lesson learned.

[Rat Diva]

Plus the age of your average political type. I know there are people aged 70+ who are very tech savvy. Then there are people like my mother, who kept opening emails written in Cyrilic just in case it was her late stepfather's family trying to contact us

[BJMoose]

Nate Silver's numbers are starting to close again, though probably not at a rate that will change things in eleven days. It looks like Kansas is a cinch for Trump, so I may wind up writing in Harold Stassen after all (not that anyone will see it, much less get the joke.)


The fundamental question here, of course, is why is this election even close? On the one hand we have a candidate versed in the law, politically active for decades, a former United States Senator and Secretary of State (some will recall that, in the first half century of our nation's history, the usual stepping-stone to the White House was the State Department).

On the other hand we have - a mediocre real estate mogul. That's it. (And those guys used to rank just a couple of notches above used car salesmen.)

I can only conclude that many people flat don't give a shit about their civic responsibilities; probably never have even heard of the concept.

[Veb]

Originally Posted by BJMoose

The fundamental question here, of course, is why is this election even close? On the one hand we have a candidate versed in the law, politically active for decades, a former United States Senator and Secretary of State (some will recall that, in the first half century of our nation's history, the usual stepping-stone to the White House was the State Department).

On the other hand we have - a mediocre real estate mogul. That's it. (And those guys used to rank just a couple of notches above used car salesmen.)

Ain't that the truth. Both of the Clintons are more than titch sleazy, always have been. The cry "persecution!' and "conspiracy!" but both of 'em keep doing things that are so borderline that they invite it. But--and this is a huge but--they're scary smart, experienced and know government works, inside and out. I'm thoroughly pissed that the Democrats in effect anointed Hillary on the basis that it was somehow her turn to be president. She was a weak, tainted candidate from the get-go and if the Republicans had nominated anybody but a disaster like Trump they would have waltzed away with the election.

The truly frightening part is exactly what the Moose noted: if Hillary is a bit sleazy, Trump is a blatant con artist who isn't even competent at business. His only "business" is promoting his brand, i.e. himself. He's really, really good at playing the media. Facts like his fraudulent university, bankruptcies, stiffing contractors, discrimination against minorities, etc. should have disqualified him right off. But he's very skillfully whipped up anti-Washington sentiment and fringe hate groups, so here we are.

I'm even more depressed over how the GOP has apparently learned nothing from this debacle. Chaffetz has already crowed about how Hillary is so "target rich" that that they have fodder for at least 2 years worth of investigations.

Welcome back to total gridlock, folks.

[AuntiePam]

What the fuck, Comey? New investigation into Hillary's emails because of an "unrelated case"

Trump is bellowing triumph like this is a death blow to Hillary's campaign.

And my husband is doing the same thing! He believes every negative about the Clintons, without question. He voted for McCain in 2008 but he voted for Obama in 2012, he says because Romney was a rich guy who didn't care about the middle class.

When I try to pin him down on why he likes Trump, he spouts the same ignorant shit we hear at rallies -- he'll bring back jobs, he'll stand up to foreign leaders. When I respond with Trump's job history and how foreign leaders are laughing at us, he gets mad -- "I can't talk to you!"

I'm putting it down to sexism. He just can't see a woman as President, as Commander in Chief.

So I'm doing my part. I voted absentee. On November 8, when he says "Let's go vote", I'm telling him nope, because our votes cancel each other out, why bother.

He might go vote anyway, but first he has to figure out where to vote, and I ain't telling him. With any luck, we'll have a blizzard that day.

[running coach]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

What the fuck, Comey? New investigation into Hillary's emails because of an "unrelated case"

Actually, it's not Comey. The letter was sent to Congressional leaders. They leaked it in the hopes of damaging Clinton.

[Solfy]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

So I'm doing my part. I voted absentee. On November 8, when he says "Let's go vote", I'm telling him nope, because our votes cancel each other out, why bother.

The first time Bush Jr. ran, I voted. I came home and asked Husband if he'd been to the polls. He replied he hadn't, nor did he intend to. "My vote would just cancel yours anyway." I pointed out that it didn't because he didn't cast it. And that is how people win elections.

He votes now.

[JackieLikesVariety]

I'm putting it down to sexism. He just can't see a woman as President, as Commander in Chief.

I think we really underestimate this

[Anacanapuna]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

He could be found in bed with a dead hooker, a live boy, two transvestites and a meth-addled sheep, and his supporters would still fawn all over him.

FTFY

[Mr. Plumbean]

So now the FBI has re-opened the investigation of Clinton a week before the election, and it's being reported with breathless enthusiasm by all MSM outlets. Will this end the idea that there is collusion between the FBI and Clinton? Or that the Media isn't trying to fix the election? Hell no.

[Lungfish]

Huh. These emails weren't sent by Hilary nor were found on her server and yet it is somehow it's her fault? Another fake scandal.

[Glazer]

Originally Posted by JackieLikesVariety

I think we really underestimate this

Hillary has been a boogie man for the Right since she spoke truth about them being a Vast Right-wing Conspiracy. Their opposition to her is a large portion of her power in Democratic circles.

[AuntiePam]

Originally Posted by Lungfish

Huh. These emails weren't sent by Hilary nor were found on her server and yet it is somehow it's her fault? Another fake scandal.

Yeah -- and now they're saying it has something to do with Anthony Weiner.

[The Devil's Grandmother]

If all this fuss is because Congressman Anthony Weiner sent a naughty picture to Secretary Clinton....I can't decide if I'll be annoyed of amused.

[BrickaBracka]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

What of Colin Powell's emails--ALL gone. What of the Bush admin's emails--something like 22 million of them--POOF.

IMO, what happened was that email came along and nobody in our big, expensive government thought to think out policies on how to deal with emails, both private and public, to the extent that they should have. Lesson learned.

Well, the law already is broad enough in that it says something to the effect of "any article, communication, or other thing that is used in communication" is property of Uncle Sam and destroying it is a Bad Thing.

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by JackieLikesVariety

I think we really underestimate this

This, a thousand times.

Originally Posted by Anacanapuna

FTFY

LOL. And still true.

Originally Posted by BrickaBracka

Well, the law already is broad enough in that it says something to the effect of "any article, communication, or other thing that is used in communication" is property of Uncle Sam and destroying it is a Bad Thing.

Yes, but that begs the question(s): where was the outrage then? The fact that it is HRC and not W or CP (both men, both GOP-although Colin is in name only at this point-leads to speculation as to the motivation for this huge YUGE overreaction). Where is the damage? Where is the criminality? There isn't any--which is why the FBI refused to move forward on this.

Which does not mean I think what happened was a good thing or should ever happen again. We truly do need some kind of Cyber Czar or at least some more tech savvy people in the Inner Circle of whoever's in power. And the NSA needs to get its act together, since a hoarder can (apparently) just take random classified papers home for decades as well.

[BJMoose]

Originally Posted by Veb

I'm even more depressed over how the GOP has apparently learned nothing from this debacle. Chaffetz has already crowed about how Hillary is so "target rich" that that they have fodder for at least 2 years worth of investigations.

Welcome back to total gridlock, folks.

So they're finally admitting that they're going to do the same bullshit they did during Bill Clinton's administration, eh? The reason I have been hesitant to send Hillary Clinton to the White House (even in 2008) was that I knew we would see a resumption of Whitewater-type harassment.

The death certificate for the United States of America will give as the cause of death general idiocy.

[BrickaBracka]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

Yes, but that begs the question(s): where was the outrage then? The fact that it is HRC and not W or CP (both men, both GOP-although Colin is in name only at this point-leads to speculation as to the motivation for this huge YUGE overreaction). Where is the damage? Where is the criminality? There isn't any--which is why the FBI refused to move forward on this.

Which does not mean I think what happened was a good thing or should ever happen again. We truly do need some kind of Cyber Czar or at least some more tech savvy people in the Inner Circle of whoever's in power. And the NSA needs to get its act together, since a hoarder can (apparently) just take random classified papers home for decades as well.

Well it was criminal but the people in power didn't understand it well enough themselves to know the real risk.

They got really fucking quiet about encryption though now that all their email is out there.

[Chacoguy]

Originally Posted by BrickaBracka

They got really fucking quiet about encryption though now that all their email is out there.

[Lounsbury]

Originally Posted by Nonny J. Nonnington III

Disagree about Syria, though. I see it as an offshoot of the "Arab Spring"; even though that started in Tunisia, I believe that it is part of the overall unrest in the mid East that was sparked by our invasion of Iraq with the subsequent harsh and heavy handed attempts to control the people.

The unrest in Tunisia has precisely fuck-all to do with your idiocy in Iraq. Fuck all.

The practices that brought down the Ben Ali regime had nothing to do with the Middle East, and were entirely internal to them. There is zero relationship to Iraq, other than the usual naïve American confusion over geographies and people speaking Arabic.

[eleanorigby]

The USA was hardly "harsh" in its attempts to "control the people"--certainly we were less so than the regimes that came before us (and will spring up after we're gone)-the people had no desire to have us as occupiers (and who could blame them?). IMO, the USA needs to realize that we cannot force democracy on all nations and that not everyone who rises up against a government is ipso facto a hero or even wants democracy themselves. We seem to be tone deaf to cultural nuances, especially in the ME. I'm not sure if that's due to the amazingly powerful Israeli lobby here, our own special brand of political naivete or what.

The thing about Syria is the USA seems to have swallowed whole that all rebels are pro-democracy, forward-thinking, live-and-let-live types who, but for their nasty dictator Assad, would all live together in perfect harmony. This is far from the truth. I don't claim to know all that much about the Syrian tragedy, but I do know (from talking to actual Syrians) there are many, many ethnic groups and rivalries and tribal hatreds among the people there--and I do mean hatred. I think Assad's evil, but what takes his place is the real question. It won't be "democracy", not as we know it. Hell, will there even be a Syria soon?

[Lounsbury]

You can profitably understand Syria via the lens of the multi-sided Lebanese civil war that ran 1975-1990.

Regardless that is neither here nor there. The Tunisian events that kicked off the Arab Spring had literally nothing to do with Iraq. Nothing. Nothing in the Ben Ali regime's issues - in mode of governance, in economic policy and problems, in internal family related corruption had anything at all to do with Iraq. There was zero relationship. The idea that the Arab Spring had anything to do with the Iraq war is sheer and utter nonsense (although one could make a case that the Syrian civil war development indeed did, but that is different than the Arab Spring or the original protest movement that was modeled on the Tunisian example). It's complete ignorant navel gazing nonsense.

However, this is a distraction to the focus of the thread, back to your collective election hand-wringing.

[Jaglavak]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

Hell, will there even be a Syria soon?

The central asian countries are getting ready to go to war over water. So we could end up with quite a string of failed states in the region, for one reason or another.

[The Devil's Grandmother]

Originally Posted by Lounsbury

...back to your collective election hand-wringing.

Should I be sorry that I'm worried? Trump is up to almost 30% according to 538: http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/...tion-forecast/

[Pere]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

The thing about Syria is the USA seems to have swallowed whole that all rebels are pro-democracy, forward-thinking, live-and-let-live types who, but for their nasty dictator Assad, would all live together in perfect harmony.

I have never heard anyone, in any position of influence, say anything remotely like this.

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

Hell, will there even be a Syria soon?

In the sense of a unitary state, approximately coterminous with the pre-2011 Assad regime and effectively governed from Damascus, there is no Syria now. I expect there never again will be.

[JackieLikesVariety]

Should I be sorry that I'm worried? Trump is up to almost 30% according to 538:

worry doesn't help.

nothing helps, IMO

and after the election we still have to live with a big chunk of the country stupid enough to vote for tRump.

[eleanorigby]

And I fear (not anxious--anxiety is the feeling of vague unease which cannot be pinned down. This can be pinned down quite well) violence after election day and intransigence for months, if not years, ahead.

So tired of the bitterness, the invective, and the lack of compromise--on both sides (but both sides are not equivalent in this).

[Glazer]

The emotional fear mongering that has been going on for decades is coming to a head. We have to deal with the results before rational discourse can happen again.

[AuntiePam]

Has Trump promised Comey a job? Yesterday the FBI releases files related to Bill Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich.

Is Comey's job secure under HRC? If she cans him, it will look like retaliation.

I thought the FBI had cleaned up its act since the J. Edgar days.

WTF Comey?

[Fenris]

I think that an FBI director is appointed for 10 years.

[Mr. Plumbean]

How much do we need to worry about voter intimidation and suppression? I've read stories about it but half the news is harum scarum anymore.

[AuntiePam]

Originally Posted by Fenris

I think that an FBI director is appointed for 10 years.

I'm reading that the AG is his boss and she can fire him. Lynch told him not to do it and he did it anyway. But she won't do it because it would look like retaliation.

[Anacanapuna]

HRC probably won't fire Comey, although 49.27% of America probably would cheer if she did. But if she doesn't make life a living hell for the sonofabitch, she's a better man than I am.

Well, I guess that goes without saying anyway.

But still ...

[Flying Saucerian]

Well, this was nice. The Columbus Dispatch had to print an editorial explaining Trump simply generates more 'negative' stories than Clinton and they are not 'favoring' one candidate over the other, nor can they endlessly rehash previously printed 'negative' Clinton stories to balance things out. Apparently, a percentage of their readership was convinced they should do a 'negative' Clinton story for each 'negative' Trump story, and vice versa.

[Mr. Plumbean]

I feel like this election is a national IQ test.

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by Mr. Plumbean

I feel like this election is a national IQ test.

And half the nation can't find their pencils.


Voter suppression is happening in NC. How lovely. NCKeepingItClassy

[BJMoose]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

Has Trump promised Comey a job? Yesterday the FBI releases files related to Bill Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich.

Is Comey's job secure under HRC? If she cans him, it will look like retaliation.

I thought the FBI had cleaned up its act since the J. Edgar days.

WTF Comey?

It's the Ghost of Mark Felt. . . .

(Now there's a conspiracy theory for you: the leaks aren't coming from Comey but from some underling who wants his job.)

This is tightening up faster than I expected. No wonder the President is working the hell out of Florida today.

[The Devil's Grandmother]

Originally Posted by Glazer

The emotional fear mongering that has been going on for decades is coming to a head. We have to deal with the results before rational discourse can happen again.

Yes, but how can we deal with it? It's not like we can just shut down Fox Infotainment and the crazy fearmongers on AM radio. We've been looking away from the nasty underbelly of America for a while and now that we're forced to see it, it's bigger than we thought.

[Anacanapuna]

I think the rise in voter suppression, obstinate racism, and general anti-intellectual, anti-science jackassery will come to a head like a giant national carbuncle in the months ahead and it will have to be lanced. It will be painful and ugly, but the left needs to mobilize, as it has in the past, and use the law to dethrone, defang, and declaw the right wing. Otherwise, we're going to be sucked into a war that could absolutely destroy us. We can't out-shout, so we have to outsmart, and that shouldn't be too hard.

[Glazer]

We are going to have to go through a National crisis. One that brings home to all that the only way forward is comprimise and working together. Don't know what the crisis will be. But it will have to be bad enough to break the spell of the entire country thinking half of it is evil.

[Inner Stickler]

Roughly half of the country is supporting a man endorsed by nazis and the KKK. What else do they have to do, tie an ingenue to the railroad tracks?

[running coach]

Originally Posted by Inner Stickler

Roughly half of the country is supporting a man endorsed by nazis and the KKK. What else do they have to do, tie an ingenue to the railroad tracks?

Without which, the train can not run. And the ingenueer would have nothing to do.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

I'm reading that the AG is his boss and she can fire him. Lynch told him not to do it and he did it anyway. But she won't do it because it would look like retaliation.

I'm not sure how deep it goes, but I think the fundamental problem is not Comey, but institutional culture at the FBI...

In 2015, Peter Schweizer, a reporter with the white nationalist site Breitbart News, published a book called “Clinton Cash” which alleged that President and Secretary Clinton used foreign connections to enrich themselves. The CEO of Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump’s campaign, Stephen Bannon, is the executive chairman of Breitbart.

Based on this book, which was published by a writer at a white nationalist site with close ties to the Trump campaign, some agents within the FBI reportedly decided to investigate Clinton. Schweizer was himself interviewed several times by these agents.

According to the Wall Street Journal, representatives from the FBI met with public integrity prosecutors and the head of the Department of Justice’s criminal division in February. The prosecutors reportedly were not impressed with this Breitbart-fueled investigation, and the DOJ instructed the FBI to “stand down.”

And yet, the agents persisted, even as senior executives within the FBI turned against them.

https://thinkprogress.org/the-chilli...659#.w1y81qn8o


I'd say I'm shocked that the FBI can investigate based on a story from a fabulist news source, but I'm not shocked at all.

It's gone full circle now:

Breitbart story -> FBI investigation -> FBI leaks -> Breitbart story

[JackieLikesVariety]

Without which, the train can not run. And the ingenueer would have nothing to do.

[Pencil]

If Clinton wins, America will wake up on the 9th of November and watch a country ablaze from riots. What happens next depends on McConnel, Ryan, McCain and all the other elected (R) and how they react.
Is their hunger for power and hatred for Clinton strong enough to try to pretend it's not happening? Or while they be the statesmen the GOP pretends them to be?

Full disclosure: I'm from a small insignificant country*. The import/export ratio is roughly 3 to 1 with the U.S. In short: we export for almost 10 bn and import for a bit more than 3 bn. IOW, you guys are paying for a chunk of our sweet sweet nanny state welfare system. The person setting the foreign policy of the U.S. will actually have a real effect on my standard of living. I do have a dog in this fight, but no way to influence the outcome


*Population about the same as New Jersey, area is about +10% of California.

[Mr. Plumbean]

Funny you are being so vague when your Location gives you away.