Felt vs. MC: Mafia Day 3 Thread

[SisterCoyote]

Originally Posted by Romanic

Yes I've voted.

Post #14 Voted Giraffe.
Post #29 My vote doesn't appear in the tally.
Post #30 Tried banking my vote for Tomorrow
Post #31 Still no vote in the tally.

Okay, thank you. Clearly my mental capacity is still running on about 2600 baud and processing accordingly.

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

And then I'm going to say that Bob indicated he thought Bill might be Scum because he'd lived so long last Night. Which raises the possibility that Bob is not Scum, but has the ability to kill, and that the Scum Kill from last night was blocked.

Are you sure you aren't misattributing this post of mine to Bob?

Originally Posted by Giraffe

Also, one thing I thought of last night as I was falling asleep:

Town should be increasingly suspicious of BillMc the longer he survives. Being freakishly intuitive, he's one of the best Mafia players, and because of this scum often take him out right away. The longer they leave him alone, the more one has to suspect that he's not Town.

I have no reason to suspect him right now, but I don't want Town to lose sight of this fact down the road.

I mean, I'd hate for any suspicion to not be focused on me, after all.

[BobArrgh]

@Moody Mitchy: That was confirmation bias on my part. I had picked up a very strong Townie vibe from Bill mostly because his viewpoints matched my own in many respects. Here are the things he said that made me think he was Town:

Day 1 #164: "The biggest weapon town has is the vote; leaving yourself without a vote makes you useless in helping town."

Day 2 #61: "They key point is that Idle has NOT claimed mason - ie, we do not have a confirmed masonary that can vote as a group. We have an unconfirmed claim from Romanic - nothing more than that. An unconfirmed Masonary of ONE has no value. So I find it somewhat surprising that you are pushing so hard on this one man unconfirmed masonary having real value to the town."

Day 2 #65: His vote for Zuma.

Night 2 #7/#36: His attitude toward Zeener's lynch.

I was contrasting his use of "we" with Romanic's phrasing:

Night 2 #10: "I'm gonna be pissed at you Townies if you don't lynch Giraffe or Zuma tomorrow, no matter what happens toNight."

Night 2 #40: "I'm at a point where I could vig you even if I was certain you were Town, for being such a pain to your team."

(Underlining mine)

@Sister: I didn't say I thought Bill was Scum ... I believe it was Giraffe that said it. I'm not Scum, I'm Town. I don't have the power to kill.

[Trepa Mayfield]

Day 3 ends in 4 days, 2 hours and 20 minutes.

Vote Count:

Zuma (3): BobArrgh [Day 3 Post 13], Total Ulla [Day 3 Post 18], Giraffe [Day 3 Post 20]
BobArrgh (2): moody mitchy [Day 3 Post 27], Sister Coyote [Day 3 Post 48]
Giraffe (1): Idle Thoughts [Day 3 Post 3]
Placeholder (1): Zuma [Day 2]

Voting in the Future: None

Voting in the Past: None

Voting from the Future: None

Voting from the Past: Zuma [Day 2]

With these votes, Zuma will be lynched.

[SisterCoyote]

Originally Posted by Giraffe

Are you sure you aren't misattributing this post of mine to Bob?

Originally Posted by BobArrgh

@Sister: I didn't say I thought Bill was Scum ... I believe it was Giraffe that said it. I'm not Scum, I'm Town. I don't have the power to kill.

Of course, the two of you are correct. I'm starting to think I should asked to be subbed out just because I keep making stupid mistakes in this game, oy.

[moody mitchy]

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

Of course, the two of you are correct. I'm starting to think I should asked to be subbed out just because I keep making stupid mistakes in this game, oy.

Or could it just be that as SCUM... you've not paid as much attention as you might have as TOWN. Just a thought.

I'm a little dubious because of the speed you chose to "me too" vote on BobArrgh. Now I know I spotted it and placed a vote.... And I'm not convinced by his reasons for the slip but, I could very well be wrong with it and you've just seen a safe place stick a vote knowing that I am wrong.. stranger things have happened.

BobArrgh are you honestly expecting me to believe that you've slipped and are honestly baseing you're slip on grammatical differences of 2 players and a "oh damn" post by BillMc in the Night thread...

There wasn't a lot of information about BillMc and we know that I (as SCUM) in the last game helped kill him Night 1 as I thought he was a strong threat to my team. That's not something I want to see happen often because I feel that would only serve to lessen BillMc's enjoyment of the game. But to state as you did that he was TOWN just because he was killed at Night... is for me a bit too much of a coincidence...

Idle Thoughts Although I'm not after lynching them yet.... can you tell me why you're so happy to accept Romanic as TOWN ?

[Romanic]

Bob assumed that Bill was Town, big deal. I assumed the same, why would it be otherwise? Only one kill and a no death reveal doesn't strike me as a situation where a Scum would have died.

Weak reason to vote him, imo.

[SisterCoyote]

Originally Posted by moody mitchy

Or could it just be that as SCUM... you've not paid as much attention as you might have as TOWN. Just a thought.

Which reasoning I can't argue with except that I'm not remotely Scum.

Also, even if I were skimming, skimming is not a Scum tell. I don't have the faintest idea where this particular line of thinking came from, but it's dead wrong.

I'm a little dubious because of the speed you chose to "me too" vote on BobArrgh. Now I know I spotted it and placed a vote.... And I'm not convinced by his reasons for the slip but, I could very well be wrong with it and you've just seen a safe place stick a vote knowing that I am wrong.. stranger things have happened.

I'll put it this way: I may be an idiot, but if toDay ended and I didn't have a vote down again I would have expected y'all to lynch me, for serious. It may still happen, but at least it won't be for that stupid reason.

However; I'm not sold on the case on Giraffe, because Bill died last Night. Which may be what Scum want us to think.

I'm not 100% convinced of Romanic's claim (because he's not confirmed until he's dead), but I see no reason to lynch him at this point.

[Romanic]

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

However; I'm not sold on the case on Giraffe, because Bill died last Night. Which may be what Scum want us to think.

What do you mean by "Which may be what Scum want us to think" ?

I don't see a connection between Bill and Giraffe. Why would Bill dying be pointing (or not) at Giraffe being Scum?

[moody mitchy]

Originally Posted by Romanic

Bob assumed that Bill was Town, big deal. I assumed the same, why would it be otherwise? Only one kill and a no death reveal doesn't strike me as a situation where a Scum would have died.

Weak reason to vote him, imo.

Well weak is all I have as I don't have any other knowledge...

[SisterCoyote]

Originally Posted by Romanic

What do you mean by "Which may be what Scum want us to think" ?

I don't see a connection between Bill and Giraffe. Why would Bill dying be pointing (or not) at Giraffe being Scum?

Because Giraffe noted that Bill was still alive and might be Scum because he was still alive.

The lack of reveal suggests that Scum -- assuming Scum performed the kill -- want us to question both Bill's alignment and Giraffe's statement.

You know what? I don't know what the hell I was trying to say there.

Possible things that could have happened last Night:

Scum killed Bill, and used a Janitor to hide his information.
Scum killed Bill, and something about his role prevented a reveal
Scum killed Bill, and something else happened to prevent the reveal

or a Serial Killer or Vigilante killed Bill and points two or three above happened; I think it's fairly unlikely for a PFK SK to also be a Janitor and I can't see any pro-Town reason for a Vig to also be a Janitor.

In any event, the lack of reveal -- unless it is a factor of Bill's role itself -- suggests that whoever did the killing also wants there to be doubt about Bill's alignment, and therefore the alignment of anyone speculating about Bill's alignment.

[Idle Thoughts]

Originally Posted by moody mitchy

Idle Thoughts Although I'm not after lynching them yet.... can you tell me why you're so happy to accept Romanic as TOWN ?

Uh, and where have I said I accept Romanic as Town? Find that post and link it to me?
Oh, that's right...I never said anything of the sort. In fact, I've been quite consistent in saying that I have no idea WHAT Romanic is and that he, very well, could be scum.

All I've ever said and knew was that he was told I was Town, which happens to be the truth.


Now, I DO think there are things in favor of his being Town, which I've said many times before (like him being able to communicate with a player and someone who knows someone else is Town--which is, by HB's definition, a Mason)...but am I willing to put 100 percent trust in him? No. Not until he's dead.
And I do think there are many more better-suited lynches than him to look at before you go off all vote happy on him.

[BobArrgh]

@Moody Mitchy: You can believe anything you want to. I just kept getting a Town feel from everything Bill said and did, as opposed to, say, the feeling I'm getting from Romanic, Zuma, or even Giraffe.

[Giraffe]

[QUOTE=Idle Thoughts;554633]

Originally Posted by moody mitchy

Idle Thoughts Although I'm not after lynching them yet.... can you tell me why you're so happy to accept Romanic as TOWN ?

Uh, and where have I said I accept Romanic as Town? Find that post and link it to me?
Oh, that's right...I never said anything of the sort. In fact, I've been quite consistent in saying that I have no idea WHAT Romanic is and that he, very well, could be scum.

Originally Posted by Idle Thoughts

Of course you'd like to lynch Romanic..just like you'd like to lynch me.. just like you liked to lynch Zeener when you had your choice. Get the protective role lynched, that's you.

I'm very happy with my vote.

You equated my desire to lynch Romanic with my vote to lynch Zeener and my suspicion of you (I actually never said I wanted to lynch you unless Romanic flipped scum). Zeener is confirmed Town. You would know you're Town (if you are). Romanic should not hold nearly as much certainty for you, if you're Town, to the point that you use someone trying to lynch him as evidence of their scumminess.

OOG comment:

I'd like to point out that posting to this thread is the very first thing I did upon getting my laptop after sleeping off the general anesthetic. This Mafia crap is addictive.

[BobArrgh]

[oog]
Hope you're feeling better, Giraffe.
[/oog]

[Trepa Mayfield]

FYI, Lucifer asked to be subbed out--currently looking for a sub.

G2G, I have to watch Loose Change for a University class (EDIT: JESUS THIS IS BORING AS FUCK HE DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A GOOD VOICE) ((EDIT EDIT: I feel like Arnold right now) (EDIT EDIT EDIT: It's like William Shatner lost a bet against a stupid person)

[moody mitchy]

@ Idle Thoughts. That's fair enough comment and like i say in your favour.... IF I'd been a Cop I'd have taken a look at you just to verify that we weren't being double bluffed on it...

Was Day 1 the only Day you could recieve messages from them? I just feel that if you've had any more one way communication... you should share them just in case Romanic isn't TOWN and lets something slip in their missives to you.

[Total Ulla]

Originally Posted by moody mitchy

We can't doubt [B]Giraffes[/B ] power but we can still doubt which side he is on...

I am just going to nitpick here:

We can't doubt that the power is in the game. But that doesn't mean it's held by Giraffe. If he is scum it could be a fellow scum-buddy with the power and Giraffe just claiming to have it.

With Lucifer asking to be subbed out, I'm more than happy with my vote on Zuma.
I can't bring myself to vote for a player that answered "meh" and voted crappy Day 1, if he's going to be replace soon and I can have some more to go by.

I do see the points Romanic and Idle bring forth about lynching Giraffe. But I don't agree that it's the best way to go toDay. I'd rather see Zuma lynched - and then decide what to do after his alignment is known.

Romola's idea about Scum banking the NK is very interesting. I don't know what to do with it - but I agree it would make sense in this game.

[Idle Thoughts]

Nope, as far as I know, I could receive messages from Romanic anytime he wants to send them.

Is there much point now, though, with everyone knowing everything?

[moody mitchy]

Originally Posted by Total Ulla

I am just going to nitpick here:

We can't doubt that the power is in the game. But that doesn't mean it's held by Giraffe. If he is scum it could be a fellow scum-buddy with the power and Giraffe just claiming to have it.

With Lucifer asking to be subbed out, I'm more than happy with my vote on Zuma.
I can't bring myself to vote for a player that answered "meh" and voted crappy Day 1, if he's going to be replace soon and I can have some more to go by.

I do see the points Romanic and Idle bring forth about lynching Giraffe. But I don't agree that it's the best way to go toDay. I'd rather see Zuma lynched - and then decide what to do after his alignment is known.

Romola's idea about Scum banking the NK is very interesting. I don't know what to do with it - but I agree it would make sense in this game.

So are you saying it's possible for SCUM to have sort of offered up Giraffe as a sacrificial lamb by choosing him to be the one that admits to having this power.... Ok I could buy this IF they tought it likely he'd get heat toDay because of his late vote switching...

And not to nit pick but I mentioned the possibility of SCUM being able to pull kills from the future here

I feel that Romola's post was just an extension of that.

Nope, as far as I know, I could receive messages from Romanic anytime he wants to send them.

Is there much point now, though, with everyone knowing everything?

Bolding Mine.... I'm sorry how does everyone know everything? You're both still alive and we only have your word for what you say you both are.

[SisterCoyote]

I haven't fully gone back through the other Days as of yet, but I think I am going to:

Unvote


I'm not liking his play in general, and unlike Romanic I particularly find his instant jump on Moody's comment about Idle not claiming problematic at best.

[Idle Thoughts]

My point remains the same, why would he bother messaging me when the power and PMs have been posted? He could just talk to me here, in the game thread, doesn't need to send messages.

[moody mitchy]

Unvote BobArrgh

Vote Zuma

I'm happy to go with the flow on this one and maybe with the votes off of him... BobArrgh might feel like adding a little more to the discussion.

Can I just state though that I'm voting because of the lurking... I don't like people saying that "player x" was logged on here at time Z and didn't post in the game... that must make them SCUM.. What and when players post or participate in the game is entirely up to them as far as I'm concerned.

[BobArrgh]

I don't know how much I can add to the discussion at the moment. There really isn't a whole lot to say until we get some true confirmation via death and card flips. There are a few things hanging in the air that seem disturbing (to me). I really hope that that I'm not giving the Scum any ammunition by asking these questions or raising these issues.

Here are the thoughts that are bouncing around my skull:

1. In Post #43, Romola suggests that the Scum may have banked their kill or brought forward a kill from a future date. I am not at all sure that would be possible, since it could lead to too many issues and "impossible timelines". For example, say the Scum did as Romola said and killed Bill using a kill from Night 6. The kill goes through and Bill is killed. We know Bill is dead (and not in some sort of limbo) because Hypnagogic said in Post #10 that Bill is so dead he can join the spoiler board if he wishes.

However, for argument's sake, let's say that the Scum killer is blocked on Night 6. Thus, the kill would not have gone through, and, theoretically, Bill would be alive. He certainly couldn't rejoin the game if he had already been spoiled. Even if he hadn't been spoiled, he had not participated for several days, and who knows how the game would have gone if he had still been around?

Thus, I think there are too many problems with Scum being able to bring forth a kill from the future.

2. Regarding Lucifer, I think that D3 seems a little late to try to be subbed. I know life happens, but it still sucks.

In this particular game, he could just as easily throw down his remaining votes by pulling them from the future. If the timelines resolve and the votes go through, then Yay! If the timelines don't resolve, then no harm, no foul. In other words, he can still be useful, even if he isn't able to participate.

[oog]
Sorry. I have more to say, but my grandkids just got up and I need to get them settled in front of the Wii. I'll be back later this morning to continue my thoughts.
[/oog]

[BobArrgh]

** Continuation of #74 **

3. I don't think we have enough data points for vote analysis. We haven't found any Scum yet, so we can't see who is voting one way or the other.

4. I'm twigged by Romanic's statements last Night when he refers to wanting to Vig Giraffe and his phrasing about "your team". He is really pinging my Scumdar at this point.

5. Zuma has completely fallen off the face of the earth for this game. Again, in this particular game, I don't think there is much excuse for not participating, since we can pull in votes from the future. The non-participation is weird.

[Total Ulla]

OoG:

This weekend wasn't as peaceful and with the mafia-time I was hoping for. I'm reading from my phone as much as possible and trying to follow along - but I know I'm not posting as I want to.
Next week should be better (or so I hope)

/OoG

[Romola]

I am still tentatively accepting Idle's and Romanic's claims, mainly on the grounds that Romanic's behaviour has, as far as I can see, been pro-Town. I'm thinking particularly of his willingness to promote his own lynch over Idle's on Day one.

I see Giraffe's double vote yesterDay as trying to ensure the Zeener lynch (a claimed Town doctor, remember. Given that one Town protector had already been lynched, this almost certainly leaves Scum with a clear, or almost clear run), rather than an effort to save Zuma in particular. Giraffe's own claim smells funny, as if it's a scum PM edited to look like a Town one. The power claimed is not a pro-Town one and would be of more benefit to scum, especially as they already have some ability to manipulate the voting with the bringing forward of votes thing (yes, Town have that too, but i think scum have been the ones exploiting it to the full so far).

[Romola]

Originally Posted by Romola

I am still tentatively accepting Idle's and Romanic's claims, mainly on the grounds that Romanic's behaviour has, as far as I can see, been pro-Town. I'm thinking particularly of his willingness to promote his own lynch over Idle's on Day one.

I see Giraffe's double vote yesterDay as trying to ensure the Zeener lynch (a claimed Town doctor, remember. Given that one Town protector had already been lynched, this almost certainly leaves Scum with a clear, or almost clear run), rather than an effort to save Zuma in particular. Giraffe's own claim smells funny, as if it's a scum PM edited to look like a Town one. The power claimed is not a pro-Town one and would be of more benefit to scum, especially as they already have some ability to manipulate the voting with the bringing forward of votes thing (yes, Town have that too, but i think scum have been the ones exploiting it to the full so far).

That was toDay's vote. I will also

[Romola]

Originally Posted by BobArrgh

I don't know how much I can add to the discussion at the moment. There really isn't a whole lot to say until we get some true confirmation via death and card flips. There are a few things hanging in the air that seem disturbing (to me). I really hope that that I'm not giving the Scum any ammunition by asking these questions or raising these issues.

Here are the thoughts that are bouncing around my skull:

1. In Post #43, Romola suggests that the Scum may have banked their kill or brought forward a kill from a future date. I am not at all sure that would be possible, since it could lead to too many issues and "impossible timelines". For example, say the Scum did as Romola said and killed Bill using a kill from Night 6. The kill goes through and Bill is killed. We know Bill is dead (and not in some sort of limbo) because Hypnagogic said in Post #10 that Bill is so dead he can join the spoiler board if he wishes.

However, for argument's sake, let's say that the Scum killer is blocked on Night 6. Thus, the kill would not have gone through, and, theoretically, Bill would be alive. He certainly couldn't rejoin the game if he had already been spoiled. Even if he hadn't been spoiled, he had not participated for several days, and who knows how the game would have gone if he had still been around?

Thus, I think there are too many problems with Scum being able to bring forth a kill from the future.



[/oog]

Just a note to say we will already have potential impossible timelines from the brought forward votes, so I don't see why brought forward kills should be out of the question. If three players ensure a lynch by bringing forward their Day 7 votes on Day 3 and they are all dead by Day 7, the Day 3 lynchee isn't going to spring back to life, is he?

[BobArrgh]

I truly don't know how Hypnagogic is going to resolve that.

[BobArrgh]

NETA: "is going to resolve" / "would resolve" / "might resolve".

In keeping with the spirit of this game, we'll come to that bridge after we cross over it.

[Romola]

Exactly, as we will have been going to resolve any hypothetical scum kills from the future in the same way.

[Trepa Mayfield]

Day 3 ends in 1 day, 1 hour and 30 minutes.

Vote Count:

Zuma (5): BobArrgh [Day 3 Post 13], Total Ulla [Day 3 Post 18], Giraffe [Day 3 Post 20], Sis Coyote [Day 3 Post 71], moody mitchy [Day 3 Post 73]
Giraffe (3): Idle Thoughts [Day 3 Post 3], Romola [Day 3 Post 77], Romola [Day 6]
Placeholder (1): Zuma [Day 2]

Voting in the Future: None

Voting in the Past: None

Voting from the Future: Romola [Day 6]

Voting from the Past: Zuma [Day 2]

With these votes, Zuma will be lynched.

Originally Posted by BobArrgh

I truly don't know how Hypnagogic is going to resolve that.

I've already addressed that. If someone uses a future vote and then dies, the future vote was actually an alternate universe version of the player from a doomed timeline. Since doomed timeline persons are doomed, they die when the regular player dies.

[SisterCoyote]

Does Romola's vote in 78 not count?

[Trepa Mayfield]

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

Does Romola's vote in 78 not count?

...why wouldn't it?

[moody mitchy]

Originally Posted by Romola

I am still tentatively accepting Idle's and Romanic's claims, mainly on the grounds that Romanic's behaviour has, as far as I can see, been pro-Town. I'm thinking particularly of his willingness to promote his own lynch over Idle's on Day one.

I see Giraffe's double vote yesterDay as trying to ensure the Zeener lynch (a claimed Town doctor, remember. Given that one Town protector had already been lynched, this almost certainly leaves Scum with a clear, or almost clear run), rather than an effort to save Zuma in particular. Giraffe's own claim smells funny, as if it's a scum PM edited to look like a Town one. The power claimed is not a pro-Town one and would be of more benefit to scum, especially as they already have some ability to manipulate the voting with the bringing forward of votes thing (yes, Town have that too, but i think scum have been the ones exploiting it to the full so far).

Bolding mine

Romola I'm not too sure what you mean by this part...

So far we've lost a TOWN Mass Roleblocker

A TOWN Weak Doc

And a TOWN Tracker.

Now in your post it (to me ) looks like you're talking about Giraffes voting actions yesterDay when you state that "one Town protector had already been lynched".

At that point as far as I can see ... NO TOWN protective roles had been lynched.


With regards to pulling a NK forward... I think it's possible...

If I pulled a vote forward from Day 5 ... it would count. If I'm alive Day 5 I have no vote to use... If I'm dead I've already used it.

Why not with NK's ? Though if the SCUM NK is a group action as on my experience they normaly do... it might cause problems. But I just feel that it would mean that SCUM would at some point have no NK

[Romola]

Ah sorry, Moody, you are right of course. My concentration last night was absolutely lousy. I'm still keeping both votes on Giraffe. To double up on a claimed Town Protector was still pretty scummy behaviour in my opinion.

[SisterCoyote]

Originally Posted by Hypnagogic Bonafide

...why wouldn't it?

Because you didn't count her as voting from the future?

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

Because you didn't count her as voting from the future?

I think you're misreading it -- I see two votes on me from Romola, one from toDay, one from Day 6.

[Trepa Mayfield]

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

Because you didn't count her as voting from the future?

Ah...fixed.

[Trepa Mayfield]

Final Vote Count

Vote Count:

Zuma (5): BobArrgh [Day 3 Post 13], Total Ulla [Day 3 Post 18], Giraffe [Day 3 Post 20], Sis Coyote [Day 3 Post 71], moody mitchy [Day 3 Post 73]
Giraffe (3): Idle Thoughts [Day 3 Post 3], Romola [Day 3 Post 77], Romola [Day 6]
Placeholder (1): Zuma [Day 2]

Voting in the Future: None

Voting in the Past: None

Voting from the Future: Romola [Day 6]

Voting from the Past: Zuma [Day 2]

With these votes, Zuma will be lynched.