HoH 6: Day 1

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by The Flash

No, my strategy is to play evict-the-lurker unless there's an actual case to be made. It's my usual D1 strategy. If more people tried it, it'd work.

The fact that we have new people here, and unused to our group, makes me think they'd tend to lurk MORE not less.

I know we talked about this last game, and I think there was one lurker who turned out to be scum. I suppose that's slightly better than random, but I still say it's a bad strategy unless the entire town adopts it.

[Mendie Taoma]

Originally Posted by Mantis

1. Bogatyr is strong town
2. The Flash is no feeling
3. Steven Universe is weak town
4. Doctor French is strong scum
5. Bicycle Repair Man is weak town
6. Sherlock Holmes is weak town
7. Clarice Starling is strong scum
8. Hiro Protagonist is strong town
9. Elsa Bloodstone is no feeling
10. Simon Templar is weak scum
11. Atticus Finch is no feeling
12. Mantis is me
13. Harry Dresden is strong town
14. Mendie Taoma is weak town
15. Buzz Lightyear is no feeling
16. Mulan is no feeling
17. Number Five is strong town
18. Ladybug is my friend today
19. Don Quixote is no feeling

FWIW it should probably be noted, and probably most by me, that I don't think a ""new"" player would even begin to know how to do this, let alone feel compelled to do it. This doesn't mesh with the rest of ...... all of Mantis.

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Originally Posted by The Flash

No, my strategy is to play evict-the-lurker unless there's an actual case to be made. It's my usual D1 strategy. If more people tried it, it'd work.

The fact that we have new people here, and unused to our group, makes me think they'd tend to lurk MORE not less.

Players "lurk" for a variety of reasons. If we evict folks solely for playing little then players who have real life time issues may well conclude it is pointless to play at all.

[Simon Templar]

Originally Posted by Doctor French

Unfortunately I missed the third vote on a wagon tell.

There is still a chance.

[Simon Templar]

Originally Posted by Steven Universe

I have to admit, while I don't see players suspicions of me as being warranted, I also don't mind them at this early stage. I don't feel like I've said anything truly scummy or anything to make me look suspect, so really, the suspicion of me was kind of grasping at early Day 1 straws. So much of Day 1's are OMGUS votes, or random, or just flimsy cases. There are a few times that a case has merit, but I don't think this is one of them.

Bluntly snarky, I say, you don’t think the case on you has merit? Did you forget to read your role PM? Is there a point where you’re going to decide for sure that your case has no merit?

I realize you made this post some time ago and you have posted since then. Maybe you have decided. I wouldn’t call this post “truly scummy” but it sure doesn’t scream “town.”

[Mendie Taoma]

Originally Posted by Atticus_Finch

No one has blatantly stated it. But Mendie is putting as much effort into hinting to us that Mantis is new as Mantis is of acting the part. All of this, plus Number 5's early "town lean"?? I think we have our scum team right there. Once Mantis flips scum, it's eviction time for Mendie and Number 5. Game over!

[vote]Mantis[vote]

Not sure if there is anything left to chew on over this.

Except, that the speed is decidedly un-town. un-day 1.

I'm not sure if Finch is making one case, and voting for one person, or making three cases, and voting for three people.

"...Once Mantis flips scum..."

And if they don't?

Or would a producer ever consider this?

It's the overall "Speed" here. No likey.

""I think we have our scum team right there. Once Mantis flips scum, it's eviction time for Mendie and Number 5. Game over!""

Trying to read this with Town motivation. And I can't.

[Simon Templar]

Scum leans.

Doctor French. For repeatedly throwing in cliché scum tells. Looking to attract attention. Bogatyr asked upthread if this poster was trying to get votes and Dr. French did not answer, but later when there were some votes, seemed willing to discuss. But really hasn’t. More "interesting" and "don't agree" posts.

Atticus Finch. It looks pretty damning that he either didn’t know or pretended not to know that there were two scum teams. A little more suspect when he didn’t come back for awhile but he’s discussing it now. Would switch and vote here if the wind blows that way.

Elsa Bloodstone’s few posts don’t look that good, but the main problem is there are so few of them. I do like to give people a chance, but this has been a long phase already. Again, could vote here.

Town leans: none that I want to share. The players who look the strongest town to me also look like very experienced players who are capable of fooling me, so I am reserving judgment.

Mantis. My guess is this poster is assuming some kind of in-character posting style. I am not familiar with this character but this style can mask things other than sock identity and I'm suspicious that may be the point.

[Mantis]

Originally Posted by Bogatyr

Please use a few more words so we can parse your thoughts.
If you are in character fine
but you need to make yourself understood

I want to know more of players who do not show much. That is more important than today's feelings.

[Mantis]

Originally Posted by Number 5

There are plenty who aren't lurking, and some who have made grievous slips. Directing your scrutiny on the non-active players isn't helpful to Town

That is not right. We do not know a player that hides. There are many scum and we kill one we know when night

[Mantis]

Originally Posted by The Flash

In the vast majority of games I've played, what have been called as "grievous slips" on D1 is merely a Townie putting his/her foot in the mouth. Sometimes not, but mostly so. Directing my scrutiny on non-active players does help, because if we get rid of those who aren't participating early, we won't have them lurking in the background later.

This is true. I feel you are town.

[Mulan]

Originally Posted by The Flash

Let's see:

9 votes out of 19. Yeah, I know I haven't been around much. First it was Capt. Cold knocking over a bank, then the JLA needed me to help stop Starro again. You know how it is.

I can see the case on Atticus easily. I'd vote there but someone would look at it, see there's a bandwagon, and take the easy D1 vote. I may vote there later. I'm more concerned with those who aren't participating (yes, I see the irony).



for the moment.

Flash, you said this vote was for the moment. But you seem to be getting entrenched in voting for a lurker. Do you really think that's a better vote than someone that you think has a good case on them?

[Bogatyr]

Originally Posted by Number 5

There are plenty who aren't lurking, and some who have made grievous slips. Directing your scrutiny on the non-active players isn't helpful to Town

Can you point out the "grievous slips" you noticed?

[The Flash]

Originally Posted by Mulan

Flash, you said this vote was for the moment. But you seem to be getting entrenched in voting for a lurker. Do you really think that's a better vote than someone that you think has a good case on them?

I'll vote for a lurker if I don't find a good case. So far, I'm still lookin'.

[Ladybug]

Originally Posted by Bogatyr

Why is this an issue?

and Why did Finch not use it already?

What did you mean by this?

[Bogatyr]

Originally Posted by Ladybug

What did you mean by this?

In the rules both non Town teams are called Scum
I don't see the point of delineation arguments

[Mahaloth]

Originally Posted by Vote Counting Robot

Doctor French (4): Clarice Sterling (175), Hiro Protagonist (190), Bogatyr (332), Simon Templar (344)
Atticus Finch (3): Ladybug (211), Sherlock Holmes (260), Bicycle Repair Man (304)
Mantis (2): Atticus_Finch (209), Mendie Taoma (347)
Don Quixote (1): The Flash (305)
The Flash (1): Number 5 (350)
Buzz Lightyear (1): Mantis (335)
Harry Dresden (1): Doctor French (268)
Ladybug (1): Mendie Taoma (39)[107], Harry Dresden (237)

Still Doctor French in the lead, couple days in the Day left.

[Number 5]

Originally Posted by Bogatyr

Can you point out the "grievous slips" you noticed?

Just to be clear, when I say "grievous" I mean slip that would garner a large number of votes, if not being evicted, in a smaller game. And in some cases, it was scum leading the vote

1. Atticus mistaking the number of teams

2. The Flash choosing not to investigate participating players

3. Harry's "TBH" post

There are more but I'd have to go back and reread the Day's thread. Clarice and Steven U both posted things that pinged me

[Doctor French]

Simon Templar is pinging town except for holding his town reads to himself. Keeping too many options open, namely the entire roster, doesn't sit well with me.

[Doctor French]

I don't know if scum LARPs on this board like Mantis. I just don't know.

[Number 5]

Originally Posted by The Flash

And, Number 5, looking at the list of people you're targeting on: me, Elisa Bloodstone, Buzz Lightyear, Mulan -- which ones of those have made grievous slips? I must've missed it.

Those mentioned (besides you), I don't have a read on. I'd like to hear more from them before making a case against them

But of the three, Mulan seems more actively involved

[Doctor French]

It seems kind of risky as scum to do that here.

[Number 5]

Originally Posted by Bogatyr

Are you trying to see if you were included in the mix?

Originally Posted by Bogatyr

Please note some exchanges are bait
Not barter

Noted

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by Simon Templar

Scum leans.

Doctor French. For repeatedly throwing in cliché scum tells. Looking to attract attention. Bogatyr asked upthread if this poster was trying to get votes and Dr. French did not answer, but later when there were some votes, seemed willing to discuss. But really hasn’t. More "interesting" and "don't agree" posts.

Atticus Finch. It looks pretty damning that he either didn’t know or pretended not to know that there were two scum teams. A little more suspect when he didn’t come back for awhile but he’s discussing it now. Would switch and vote here if the wind blows that way.

Elsa Bloodstone’s few posts don’t look that good, but the main problem is there are so few of them. I do like to give people a chance, but this has been a long phase already. Again, could vote here.

Town leans: none that I want to share. The players who look the strongest town to me also look like very experienced players who are capable of fooling me, so I am reserving judgment.

Mantis. My guess is this poster is assuming some kind of in-character posting style. I am not familiar with this character but this style can mask things other than sock identity and I'm suspicious that may be the point.

Is there something I haven't answered?

[Number 5]

Originally Posted by Doctor French

It seems kind of risky as scum to do that here.

What is risky?

[Doctor French]

I thought I had already done this.

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by Number 5

What is risky?

Scum role playing on this board, where it's not generally done.

[Bogatyr]

Originally Posted by Doctor French

I don't know if scum LARPs on this board like Mantis. I just don't know.

Can you translate this

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by Bogatyr

Can you translate this

Mantis appears to be in character, role playing. We don't really have players who do that on this board. Because it's rare, it makes Mantis stand out. I don't know that a scum player makes an effort to attract attention like that. For that reason I'm reserving a read there until I have more information.

[The Flash]

Originally Posted by Doctor French

Mantis appears to be in character, role playing. We don't really have players who do that on this board. Because it's rare, it makes Mantis stand out. I don't know that a scum player makes an effort to attract attention like that. For that reason I'm reserving a read there until I have more information.

We have one player who's been playing something like this for the last two games. I'm guessing Mantis is that player.

[Bogatyr]

Originally Posted by Doctor French

Mantis appears to be in character, role playing. We don't really have players who do that on this board. Because it's rare, it makes Mantis stand out. I don't know that a scum player makes an effort to attract attention like that. For that reason I'm reserving a read there until I have more information.

How does your " interesting, I agree" persona fit into this?

[Sherlock Holmes]

I dunno what's up with Dr. French. I can definitely see thinking that they are trying to draw an investigation. They seem to be getting less cryptic as the Day goes on, which is good. Whatever they are doing, just looking at the postcount they aren't trying to get by with low effort, so I'm inclined to give them another Day.

Definitely don't want to evict (fumigate?) Mantis.

Fairly happy with my vote as Atticus' defense was meh. Could easily switch to Quixote, Buzz or Flash.

[Steven Universe]

Originally Posted by Simon Templar

Bluntly snarky, I say, you don’t think the case on you has merit? Did you forget to read your role PM? Is there a point where you’re going to decide for sure that your case has no merit?

I realize you made this post some time ago and you have posted since then. Maybe you have decided. I wouldn’t call this post “truly scummy” but it sure doesn’t scream “town.”

Ok, sure, from an outsiders perspective, yes, the case against me has some merit. SOME. But seeing as how it's against me, of course I'm going to say it's flimsy and fruitless. I know that I'm Town and I'm just going to have to try harder to convince those of you who feel differently.

[Zeener Diode]

Originally Posted by Sherlock Holmes

Fairly happy with my vote as Atticus' defense was meh. Could easily switch to Quixote, Buzz or Flash.

[Bolding mine]

Do you favor evicting non-participants? Before we can learn anything about them?

I like to hear someone speak [post] before eviction. Let the moderator decide to remove or replace them for not playing.

[Zeener Diode]

dammit

See Sunny? It happens

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by Bogatyr

How does your " interesting, I agree" persona fit into this?

It doesn't. I was hoping at least one person would pick up on why I was doing that. But apparently not.

What do you think of Mantis anyway?

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by The Flash

We have one player who's been playing something like this for the last two games. I'm guessing Mantis is that player.

I can't think who that is. Maybe.

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by Steven Universe

Ok, sure, from an outsiders perspective, yes, the case against me has some merit. SOME. But seeing as how it's against me, of course I'm going to say it's flimsy and fruitless. I know that I'm Town and I'm just going to have to try harder to convince those of you who feel differently.

I scum read you even more for this.

Fwiw I too thought that Finch's defense was not good. It was like a mixture of pleading and flailing.

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Originally Posted by Sherlock Holmes

I dunno what's up with Dr. French. I can definitely see thinking that they are trying to draw an investigation. They seem to be getting less cryptic as the Day goes on, which is good. Whatever they are doing, just looking at the postcount they aren't trying to get by with low effort, so I'm inclined to give them another Day.

Definitely don't want to evict (fumigate?) Mantis.

Fairly happy with my vote as Atticus' defense was meh. Could easily switch to Quixote, Buzz or Flash.

I also would prefer Doctor French to not die toDay.

[Ladybug]

Originally Posted by Bogatyr

In the rules both non Town teams are called Scum
I don't see the point of delineation arguments

It was his follow-up post where he conceded the three could be Producers that proved he’d decided that they were Villains in his vote post. What are your thoughts on of my case against Atticus?

Originally Posted by Zeener Diode

I like to hear someone speak [post] before eviction. Let the moderator decide to remove or replace them for not playing.

This (whoever you are), if a player is struggling with real life commitments, they should ask to be replaced and give another player a chance to participate. or mod-killed.

Originally Posted by Doctor French

It doesn't. I was hoping at least one person would pick up on why I was doing that. But apparently not.

Do you want to enlighten us now?

Originally Posted by Bicycle Repair Man

I also would prefer Doctor French to not die toDay.

Isn’t that what he’s being accused of? I find myself in agreement with more of his reads but have no reason to want to keep him alive over other candidates.

@Harrydresden question for you in #239

@Mulan question for you in #294

@elsabloodstone question (from Doctor French) for you in #319

[Ladybug]

Quiet morning at the hotel.

[Number 5]

Originally Posted by Sherlock Holmes

I dunno what's up with Dr. French. I can definitely see thinking that they are trying to draw an investigation. They seem to be getting less cryptic as the Day goes on, which is good. Whatever they are doing, just looking at the postcount they aren't trying to get by with low effort, so I'm inclined to give them another Day.

Definitely don't want to evict (fumigate?) Mantis.

Fairly happy with my vote as Atticus' defense was meh. Could easily switch to Quixote, Buzz or Flash.

I thought Buzz Lightyear would be much more active. It's not a good sign for him to be silent. He made a solid post regarding the NK mechanism.

(For Mantis: NK=night kill)

[Harry Dresden]

First - I had a power outage yesterday, bless PG&E. I love them. So much.

Originally Posted by Number 5

And here it is [bodling mine]

So Harry's reply was a shrug and pivot to accuse me of not participating

Noted

Just to clarify (which I think I did, but apparently not well enough) - my suspicion was based on your early stated comment that you would not be participating much in the week. Setting the advanced expectation, I mean. Yes, it's true that people have IRL commitments, but it's also true that scum players can use this as a strategy to cover lurking/hiding. Obviously this has not been the case for you, and I have moved on. It's just where I started early in the Day.

Originally Posted by Mendie Taoma

FWIW it should probably be noted, and probably most by me, that I don't think a ""new"" player would even begin to know how to do this, let alone feel compelled to do it. This doesn't mesh with the rest of ...... all of Mantis.

I agree a new player would struggle with this. Remind me, was there a place where Mantis claimed to be a new player, or are we assuming this based on posting. If it's posting, then I don't believe that Mantis is our newbie.

Originally Posted by Bicycle Repair Man

I also would prefer Doctor French to not die toDay.

Why on Dr. French?

re: post count, past experience dictates that some players chat a lot, always, scum or not. This is not a meta guess of identity by the way. I just don't think that high post count dictates Town.

Originally Posted by Ladybug

It was his follow-up post where he conceded the three could be Producers that proved he’d decided that they were Villains in his vote post. What are your thoughts on of my case against Atticus?

This (whoever you are), if a player is struggling with real life commitments, they should ask to be replaced and give another player a chance to participate. or mod-killed.

Do you want to enlighten us now?

Isn’t that what he’s being accused of? I find myself in agreement with more of his reads but have no reason to want to keep him alive over other candidates.

@Harrydresden question for you in #239

@Mulan question for you in #294

@elsabloodstone question (from Doctor French) for you in #319

Why did I think that the pronoun was indicative of scum team? Yes, I thought that the scum team could chat. Yes, I now understand that they cannot. I do think that the combination of scum team knowing who is on their scum team and the explanation that a player was recognized early is interesting, so I still question the slip.

I also note that we should be looking for who is protecting whom, given that scum knows their teammates. I will re-read the thread with that in mind.

[Harry Dresden]

And I should have broken that into multiple posts because of the frickety-frackety post count thing.

[Ladybug]

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

Why did I think that the pronoun was indicative of scum team? Yes, I thought that the scum team could chat. Yes, I now understand that they cannot. I do think that the combination of scum team knowing who is on their scum team and the explanation that a player was recognized early is interesting, so I still question the slip.

Per the rules there is no slip possible, stop smudging.

[Harry Dresden]

Well, I just explained why I do think it's possible, and you're the target, so here's me taking your advice with a giant grain of salt.

Also, in case anyone missed it in my wall o' text, scum players DO know who their other teammates are. This means that they can act, toDay, to try and influence votes in the favor of scum. We should look for that.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Originally Posted by Number 5

I thought Buzz Lightyear would be much more active. It's not a good sign for him to be silent. He made a solid post regarding the NK mechanism.

(For Mantis: NK=night kill)

Hola! *starts dancing*

[Buzz Lightyear]

Sorry, someone had turned me off. Probably Andy’s mom when I was going off nonstop during the party…

But now I’m craving a burrito….

As for the actual game, I know there are scum abound, but nothing is really standing out right now…. I do understand that some people would be going for lynch the lurker, especially considering that the last couple of games that strategy actually had a scum in it. But everyone plays differently, so we can’t use that strategy. Instead I would encourage everyone to not look at the quantity of posts, but at the quality. Are they using their posts wisely, or just blowing smoke?

And does it make sense?

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

Well, I just explained why I do think it's possible, and you're the target, so here's me taking your advice with a giant grain of salt.

Also, in case anyone missed it in my wall o' text, scum players DO know who their other teammates are. This means that they can act, toDay, to try and influence votes in the favor of scum. We should look for that.

It is worth noting that a Scum team of 3/19 has much less ability to alter the outcome than a Scum team of 6/19. Any individual Scum in danger of exile currently has sixteen opponents who will be happy to see them gone.

[Ladybug]

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

Well, I just explained why I do think it's possible, and you're the target, so here's me taking your advice with a giant grain of salt.

Also, in case anyone missed it in my wall o' text, scum players DO know who their other teammates are. This means that they can act, toDay, to try and influence votes in the favor of scum. We should look for that.

You didn’t explain anything., just repeated that scum know each other and you found it interesting that a player recognized another player early. Where is the slip? Did you receive the true usernames of your buddies? Did you get a chance to say hello to them and tell them who you are? Otherwise this is just putting on a show.
@Bogatyr this is why I asked the mod to confirm, because unless Harry has PIS, and knows that there was more to the “no scum chat till Night 1”, his insistence just make him look dim, or lazy, or both.
Are we playing different games? Was anyone under the impression that scum didn’t know each other? Any more advice for the rest of us?

[Ladybug]

Second question was responding to Harry’s “scum DO know each other”.