Rev. Jones says Jesus would burn the Koran

[Patience Worth]

This crazy preacher, Rev. Jones from Florida, who has decided that burning the Koran on Sept. 11th is a good idea may be out for his 15 seconds of fame, but he is liable to cause great harm in the process.
When asked what would Jesus do, he said that Jesus would absolutely take part. I may not be much of a Christian, but if I thought Jesus would do such a thing, I could never again support Christianity in any form.
Okay, this nutcase has the right to lead his entire group of about 30 fellow crazies down this path, but ---
Even Sarah Palin (and I hate to give that devil her due) said Rev. Jones needs to back down. Military leaders, religious leaders, even the president have asked that this be cancelled. Until Rev. Jones gets a sign from God they will move forward, as planned. Well, God is only going to tell him what he wants to hear. Amazing how that works.
To me Sept. 11th should be a day of rememberance and contemplation. This planned burning of the Koran will only give other extremists excuses in addition to being a bad reflection on Christianity and all of us. There is no mourning for the dead or celebration of their lives. There is no forgiveness, rebuilding or moving on. This is just more hate and violance which proves nothing and gets us nowhere.
After the attack on Sept. 11th, I cried everyday for two months. I just couldn't get beyond the loss of all those people and the devistation of families and friendships. This makes me feel like crying again.

[GoSmoke]

It bothers me when people twist Scripture to fit their own political agenda.

September 11 should be a day for quiet reflection, not a day for some crackpot religious nutbag to make some kind of statement against Islam. I somehow doubt Jesus would do such a thing and for him to say that He would makes me uncomfortable, to say the least.

It was a sad day and I will never forget it, mostly because only by a small miracle were my brother and sister in law not in Manhattan when this terrible event happened. My SIL worked in the Twin Towers and I still, to this day, find it miraculous that she was not there that day.

I hope this Reverend Windbag gets righteous indignation from all sides if he goes through with this tasteless and stupid plan.

[Random Precision]

The man (Jones) is an obvious attention whore/nutbag. However, I heard this evening on NPR that he met with a Muslim cleric earlier today and there are signs that he may be softening his stance on the whole Muslims = Satan schtick. I predict that he will have a "vision" wherein Jesus and the Easter bunny persuade him that it is wrong to meet hate with hate and he'll quote some different scripture* that will support his new stance.

In the end, he'll have stirred up a hornet's nest for no other reason than to attract a few more like-minded crazies to his church so he can take better vacations or something.







*As opposed to the scripture he used to justify his original stance

[Veb]

Shameful, isn't it? Even more so because the supposed "man of God" has absolutely no excuse not to know better. In some really dark corner of my mind the bitter outrage among some of the more radical Muslims abroad is somewhat amusing. They don't hesitate to burn every symbol of western culture they can get their hands on. See? The US has assholes fully as hateful as you! But they're often poorly educated and don't exactly live in places where freedom of religion and speech are permitted, much less encouraged. That sounds more condescending than I mean it to but their starting place is different. And yeah, trashiing anybody's holy book is deliberately hateful. I loathe Scientology and everything it stands for but I wouldn't condone burning L. Ron Hubbard's ghastly books either.

Jones is a media whore. And the media whored themselves out, running after the asshole. I'm disgusted to puking with the whole ugly clusterfuck. It's the absolute lowest common denominator. Between this and the manufactured "911 Mosque" flap, I'm pretty disgusted with a fair chunk of my fellow citizens about now.

[Lord Blackmore]

I'm glad someone started this thread. I was going to.

What I find even more distressing than this guy are all the people who have come out of the woodwork to support him. I posted something in the pit earlier about someone who things Muslims want to impose Sharia law in the U.S. The quote I posted was in a facebook thread about the Quran burning thing. His prior posts was something along the lines of the Quran is trash and what do you do with trash: burn it.

I know I shouldn't be suprised, but I'm flabbergasted at how people have been absolutely hornswoggled into believing this crap.

[Paul in Qatar]

Did Palin actually say something? Any word from John McCain yet?

[Chacoguy]

We should get him together with Fred Phelps' clan.

















....and then nuke them from orbit.

[I, Claudiot]

I love this guy! Burn baby burn!

It's the American Way.

[GoSmoke]

Originally Posted by I, Claudiot

I love this guy! Burn baby burn!

It's the American Way.

I hope you are being facetious.

[I, Claudiot]

Originally Posted by GoSmoke

I hope you are being facetious.

Nope, I'm absolutely in earnest. It's hard to figure which is funnier, the wild-eyed religious wacko, the furious tolerance freaks, the gravely concerned public figures, or the dipshit media.

The Trivialization of America is the funniest thing since the Three Stooges.

[drewbert]

I just wish we'd stop giving him attention. We as a culture seem fixed on finding the stupidest people available, and putting them on TV.

[I, Claudiot]

Originally Posted by drewbert

I just wish we'd stop giving him attention. We as a culture seem fixed on finding the stupidest people available, and putting them on TV.

Yep. That's why the reference to the Three Stooges. The difference is that the Stooges were acting, and didn't really live that way, a distinction that seems lost on Merca in the 21st.

[Paul in Qatar]

I recall a line from the excitement with the kidnapper lady in Haiti a few months ago.

"These are poor people from the hinterlands, semi-educated at best."

or from Blazing Saddles,
"The common clay of the American West, you know, idiots."

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by I, Claudiot

Nope, I'm absolutely in earnest. It's hard to figure which is funnier, the wild-eyed religious wacko, the furious tolerance freaks, the gravely concerned public figures, or the dipshit media.

I vote for the dipshit media who turned a single kook with 50 followers into a worldwide phenomena.

[I, Claudiot]

Good reason to be pissed, but not all that funny. I go for Petraeus. The sheer hilarity of him having the time and attention to waste on this!

[GoSmoke]

Originally Posted by I, Claudiot

Nope, I'm absolutely in earnest. It's hard to figure which is funnier, the wild-eyed religious wacko, the furious tolerance freaks, the gravely concerned public figures, or the dipshit media.

The Trivialization of America is the funniest thing since the Three Stooges.

Okay, I didn't get what you meant.

I don't think what this asshole is doing is trivial. He is inciting violence in an arena where we don't need any more violence. By burning the Koran, he is pissing off a group of people that are already pretty fucking angry(I'm talking about the radical Muslims) and burning their holy book is going to make them even angrier. Forget about the American public for a moment and imagine if this was the Bible. See what I am getting at?

I can understand any Muslim being pissed about this. There are plenty of Muslims that are not murderous thugs and do not prescribe to the mentality of the 9/11 douchebags who flew planes into the Towers. In fact, I seem to recall seeing quite a few Muslims on the news who were horrified at the events of 9/11. Islam is not the violent, hateful religion many make it out to be. The people who kill other people, from my understanding, are a radical sect and according to what I have read,do not represent Islam as a whole.

I find the Reverend's behavior reprehensible. He has some brass ones. He is spitting in the face of the Muslims who don't prescribe to violence. I think everyone has a right to protest, but I do not think that burning a holy book is possibly the best way to get your point across.

[blank]

This is the same guy would had to flee from his congregation in Germany after some "financial irregularities" turned up in the parish accounts. I'm sure the money was "just resting before being transferred on..."

I hope that there is a massive protest by Americans who think that this guy is wrong, and can rally outside of his citadel of hatred. I think it would be a really poor show if his little stunt went ahead unopposed.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by I, Claudiot

Good reason to be pissed, but not all that funny. I go for Petraeus. The sheer hilarity of him having the time and attention to waste on this!

How about Obama pleading with this loonie not to do it.

What's even worse is the whole uspoken stoopid idea that Muslims are (as a whole) such moronic, thuggish savages that they can't understand that this is just a single fame-whore looking for his 15 minutes.

I don't see the Professional Concernariati pleading with, say, Christians to not blow stuff up when "Piss Christ" or that "Virgin Mary in Elephant Dung" pic are displayed.

I don't see them pleading with vets to not storm the Pentagon and shoot people when the flag is burned. It's only those simple, savage brown-ish people who need special coddling because they're not as smart as us.

I suspect that the vast majority of Muslims are somewhere between somewhat-pissed and about this.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by blank

This is the same guy would had to flee from his congregation in Germany after some "financial irregularities" turned up in the parish accounts. I'm sure the money was "just resting before being transferred on..."

I hope that there is a massive protest by Americans who think that this guy is wrong, and can rally outside of his citadel of hatred. I think it would be a really poor show if his little stunt went ahead unopposed.

I disagree--in Denver, we had a supermarket bag-boy who was a Klan member and neo-Nazi.

He organized a march of maybe 50 people each Martin Luther King day (in protest of MLK). First two years, the protesters outnumbered the marchers like 100 to 1 and it was a huge media circus. The Nazi/Klan guy got a ton of attention.

The third (?) year, there was an organized movement to keep people home. The few cameras that showed up captured a few pathetic lusers marching down a deserted street and that was the last time the Klan guy tried that stunt.

[I, Claudiot]

Originally Posted by GoSmoke

Okay, I didn't get what you meant.

I don't think what this asshole is doing is trivial. He is inciting violence in an arena where we don't need any more violence. By burning the Koran, he is pissing off a group of people that are already pretty fucking angry(I'm talking about the radical Muslims) and burning their holy book is going to make them even angrier. Forget about the American public for a moment and imagine if this was the Bible. See what I am getting at?

I can understand any Muslim being pissed about this. There are plenty of Muslims that are not murderous thugs and do not prescribe to the mentality of the 9/11 douchebags who flew planes into the Towers. In fact, I seem to recall seeing quite a few Muslims on the news who were horrified at the events of 9/11. Islam is not the violent, hateful religion many make it out to be. The people who kill other people, from my understanding, are a radical sect and according to what I have read,do not represent Islam as a whole.

In all sober seriousness, who fucking cares? This country fought some pretty significant wars all the while demonizing the enemy.

I'm sorry, I just don't buy the notion that there are all that many moderate Muslims who will suddenly leap up, grab an AK and strap on a suicide vest, and go looking for an infidel to kill as a result of Reverend Fuckwit and his band of mouth-breathing window lickers.

I find the Reverend's behavior reprehensible. He has some brass ones. He is spitting in the face of the Muslims who don't prescribe to violence. I think everyone has a right to protest, but I do not think that burning a holy book is possibly the best way to get your point across.

I find running around the scenery labelling things reprehensible damned funny.

You've placed yourself squarely in the "furious tolerance freaks" camp.

[blank]

he'll probably end up scoring an own goal anyway- He'll burn the English language version ("can't be having any of that furren writing") which is considered a blasphemy by most Muslims.

[I, Claudiot]

Originally Posted by Fenris

How about Obama pleading with this loonie not to do it.

That's good, too, but face it, it's a time-worn joke with Obama.

Petraeus's fall-down funny factor comes in when you visualize Bull Halsey or George Patton taking time out to plead with the American people not to call the Japanese or Germans "Nips" or "Krauts" for fear that it might antagonize them.

Next thing you know, the commanding general will be tweeting about Snooki and her impact on the war... uh... counter-insurgency effort.

What's even worse is the whole uspoken stoopid idea that Muslims are (as a whole) such moronic, thuggish savages that they can't understand that this is just a single fame-whore looking for his 15 minutes.

Spot on and well put.

I don't see the Professional Concernariati pleading with, say, Christians to not blow stuff up when "Piss Christ" or that "Virgin Mary in Elephant Dung" pic are displayed.

I don't see them pleading with vets to not storm the Pentagon and shoot people when the flag is burned. It's only those simple, savage brown-ish people who need special coddling because they're not as smart as us.

If I hear "I believe they have the right, but..." I think I'm gonna puke.

And your last sentence above is well put and completely accurate. It resonates with my personal irritation at allegedly positive stereotypes of Indians as spiritually enlightened environmentalists as well as the usual negative stereotypes. It's all patronizing, as well as just erroneous.

[I, Claudiot]

Originally Posted by blank

he'll probably end up scoring an own goal anyway- He'll burn the English language version ("can't be having any of that furren writing") which is considered a blasphemy by most Muslims.

Of course he will. And he just won't get it. The ironies abound!

[blank]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdtFk_V6A4M

[Lord Blackmore]

Originally Posted by Fenris

I vote for the dipshit media who turned a single kook with 50 followers into a worldwide phenomena.

Yep. Unfortunately, people will tune in to see the loon, so he gets the coverage he so desperately wants.

[Uthrecht]

Originally Posted by Fenris

What's even worse is the whole uspoken stoopid idea that Muslims are (as a whole) such moronic, thuggish savages that they can't understand that this is just a single fame-whore looking for his 15 minutes.

I agree. People in general are not nearly as willing as some folks think to blindly accept the idea that the actions of a small extremist minority represent the beliefs of an entire group.



Wait.

[BJMoose]

Originally Posted by Chacoguy

We should get him together with Fred Phelps' clan.

Good luck. A Kansas City Star story in the local paper this morning says Phelps' daughter is all buttsore () because Daddy burned a Quran in D.C. a couple of years back and no one noticed. Go figure.

Originally Posted by Paul in Qatar

Did Palin actually say something? Any word from John McCain yet?

As of Countdown last night, Palin kinda backed away from it on her Facebook account yesterday afternoon. Nothing from McCain yet.

Kudos to the few Republican leaders who have spoken out against this. I see two reasons why the rest are not. I suspect some are remembering the Terri Schaivo fiasco and simply want to stay as far away from this as possible. The rest, apparantly, are so damned determined to get elected that they don't dare criticize someone in one of their key voting blocs.


An ironic observation: it seems a safe bet that the folks who most favor Quran burning today are the folks who were appalled back in the 60s when some folks took to burning the American flag. It's a shame they cannot project consequences from their own experience.

[GoSmoke]

If he does do this idiotic thing, I imagine the backlash will be worth watching.

[Paul in Qatar]

Originally Posted by Fenris

How about Obama pleading with this loonie not to do it.
ed.

Now if we could only get the real president involved.

[BJMoose]

One other thing: the "Burn a Koran" folks say they are seriously praying about the matter. Nice. If they go ahead and do it and something bad happens as a result, it's God's fault, not theirs.

[Elyanna]

He's a dumbass and the most fitting punishment is everybody ignoring him entirely.

[GoSmoke]

On a side note(sorry for the slight highjack)

Is that a pic from Bachelor's Grove in your avatar, Patience? fascinating place, I'd love to go there some day.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Originally Posted by I, Claudiot

Petraeus's fall-down funny factor comes in when you visualize Bull Halsey or George Patton taking time out to plead with the American people not to call the Japanese or Germans "Nips" or "Krauts" for fear that it might antagonize them.

I thought we had decided "total war" with the villainization of entire societies and death tolls in the tens of millions was kind of a bad idea. I still have the memo, it's dated 1952...


It may seem smarmy, but I'll take Petraeus' limited war over Patton's total war any year of the century even if Patton sounds better.

[I, Claudiot]

Originally Posted by Flying Squid with Goggles

I thought we had decided "total war" with the villainization of entire societies and death tolls in the tens of millions was kind of a bad idea. I still have the memo, it's dated 1952...


It may seem smarmy, but I'll take Petraeus' limited war over Patton's total war any year of the century even if Patton sounds better.

I'm sure that's relevant. In a free-association kind of way.

[Patience Worth]

Originally Posted by GoSmoke

On a side note(sorry for the slight highjack)

Is that a pic from Bachelor's Grove in your avatar, Patience? fascinating place, I'd love to go there some day.

YEP! My kinda ghost. For the story, Google "Patience Worth"

Back to the thread ~~~
Media - shut off the damn cameras! Back away from the nuts! Concentrate on what/whom the day should be about.

[Knee]

I don't know about you other Floridians, but I'm tired of living in a state full of crazies - makes me look bad. You guys remember the crackhead that went swimming in the lake full of crocs and got an arm bitten off? What about that chick who lost her little girl and doesn't even care that she was found dead, Casey what's-her-face. Or the people that somehow managed to get their kid eaten by a python. What the hell, is it something in the water?

That aside, I'm wondering if burning a holy book, any holy book, should be considered protected under freedom of expression/speech, or if it is so potentially harmful or offensive to a particular group of people that it shouldn't be covered. If it's not covered by freedom of expression/speech, what about flag burning? Some people might find that just as offensive as other people find the burning of a holy book. Just a thought.

Now that my objective questions are laid out, my opinion that I'm sure you've all been eagerly awaiting: basically the same as most of what I've read here - this is awful, I wish some of my fellow countrymen weren't so ignorant, et cetera.

[WednesdayAddams]

It's the Scientologists. They set the bar for 'crazy' and everyone around them feels the need to top them.

Personally, I'm way more amused by all these Christians who insist that it's arrogant for anyone to assume to know God's mind, but they all know exactly what Jesus would do.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Originally Posted by I, Claudiot

I'm sure that's relevant. In a free-association kind of way.

In a very tangential way.

The popular image of Patton is a product of his time. Total war, damn the enemy to all the hells, and all that - Patton doesn't give a shit about public relations*, Etc...


The generals we have now are a product of our time. Rather than mobilizing a 3-million man army and crushing Iraq completely, a lack of political will for total mobilization** leads to a less manpower-intensive way of fighting. Instead the U.S. uses local manpower (i.e. political allies) to do the manpower-intensive aspect of the fighting, while reserving technology and firepower-intensive (use of airpower, for example) aspects of the fighting for itself. In that situation, Petraeus becomes more valuable than Patton precisely because of the public relations skills involved. It's hard to even imagine a turncoat battalion of Germans fighting under Patton, or Patton even accepting a battalion of Germans under his command.



As an aside, I think if Patton had attempted advancement through the ranks in the modern army instead of the 1930-40s army, his political aspect would be a little shinier and less abrasive. He might still find it useful to have an image of the 'guts-n-glory' warrior, but the political/diplomatic aspects of Petraeus' job are more important than the political/diplomatic aspects of Patton's job.







To put it in one sentence: I think your criticism of Petraeus for not calling all Arabs/Muslims derogatory names, like Patton would have, misplaced. But don't sweat it, it was just a one-liner.




<sub>*He actually did, naturally. His image was very much crafted for the popular imagination, but it was an image that included the "I don't give a crap what people think about me" trope within it.

**Not a bad thing, by the way. I think total mobilization would be stupid. Of course, I also think the whole invasion of Iraq was stupid too, so that's par for the course.</sub>

[I, Claudiot]

Originally Posted by Flying Squid with Goggles

...

To put it in one sentence: I think your criticism of Petraeus for not calling all Arabs/Muslims derogatory names, like Patton would have, misplaced. But don't sweat it, it was just a one-liner.

I made no such criticism. Is this a reading comp problem, or just a veritas deficiency?

[Katriona]

Originally Posted by Chacoguy

We should get him together with Fred Phelps' clan.

















....and then nuke them from orbit.

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/09/08...an-flames.html

The Phelps clan says they're against it, but it sounds like sour grapes because they tried to hold their own burning a few years ago and nobody showed up.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Originally Posted by I, Claudiot

Petraeus's fall-down funny factor comes in when you visualize Bull Halsey or George Patton taking time out to plead with the American people not to call the Japanese or Germans "Nips" or "Krauts" for fear that it might antagonize them.

I guess I misunderstood the above as a criticism. Sorry about that, carry on.

[I, Claudiot]

Originally Posted by Flying Squid with Goggles

I guess I misunderstood the above as a criticism. Sorry about that, carry on.

K, reading comp it is.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Naw, more like brain the size of a cannelli bean. You have to try to comprehend to have a reading comprehension problem.

[mswas]

Originally Posted by GoSmoke

Okay, I didn't get what you meant.

I don't think what this asshole is doing is trivial. He is inciting violence in an arena where we don't need any more violence. By burning the Koran, he is pissing off a group of people that are already pretty fucking angry(I'm talking about the radical Muslims) and burning their holy book is going to make them even angrier. Forget about the American public for a moment and imagine if this was the Bible. See what I am getting at?

I can understand any Muslim being pissed about this. There are plenty of Muslims that are not murderous thugs and do not prescribe to the mentality of the 9/11 douchebags who flew planes into the Towers. In fact, I seem to recall seeing quite a few Muslims on the news who were horrified at the events of 9/11. Islam is not the violent, hateful religion many make it out to be. The people who kill other people, from my understanding, are a radical sect and according to what I have read,do not represent Islam as a whole.

I find the Reverend's behavior reprehensible. He has some brass ones. He is spitting in the face of the Muslims who don't prescribe to violence. I think everyone has a right to protest, but I do not think that burning a holy book is possibly the best way to get your point across.

I think the point being made is that the media blows anti-Muslim hysteria out of proportion by reporting on every nutbag who makes a stink. The media makes it seem a lot more significant than it actually is.

[mswas]

Originally Posted by Flying Squid with Goggles

In a very tangential way.

The popular image of Patton is a product of his time. Total war, damn the enemy to all the hells, and all that - Patton doesn't give a shit about public relations*, Etc...


The generals we have now are a product of our time. Rather than mobilizing a 3-million man army and crushing Iraq completely, a lack of political will for total mobilization** leads to a less manpower-intensive way of fighting. Instead the U.S. uses local manpower (i.e. political allies) to do the manpower-intensive aspect of the fighting, while reserving technology and firepower-intensive (use of airpower, for example) aspects of the fighting for itself. In that situation, Petraeus becomes more valuable than Patton precisely because of the public relations skills involved. It's hard to even imagine a turncoat battalion of Germans fighting under Patton, or Patton even accepting a battalion of Germans under his command.

Umm, you do recognize the difference in objectives right? You can't kill a people into a functioning Democracy. It's not exactly just about faddishness. It's because Patton's methods couldn't achieve the objectives.

Your opinion is also ahistorical. Because we DID do the total war thing back in 2003 and completely and totally dominated them. What you are referring to is actually known as 'The Powell Doctrine' so it's got as much play today as it did in WWII.

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by mswas

I think the point being made is that the media blows anti-Muslim hysteria out of proportion by reporting on every nutbag who makes a stink. The media makes it seem a lot more significant than it actually is.

I agree with this. I also think the media is also creating a lot of anger on both sides by giving extremists of all stripes wildly disproportionate visibility. If all you ever see of the other side are its angriest and stupidest spokespeople, it's going to feed the fires of ignorance and hatred.

[GoSmoke]

Originally Posted by mswas

I think the point being made is that the media blows anti-Muslim hysteria out of proportion by reporting on every nutbag who makes a stink. The media makes it seem a lot more significant than it actually is.

True, but I still find myself fairly pissed off at this reverend douchebag person.

[mswas]

Originally Posted by Giraffe

I agree with this. I also think the media is also creating a lot of anger on both sides by giving extremists of all stripes wildly disproportionate visibility. If all you ever see of the other side are its angriest and stupidest spokespeople, it's going to feed the fires of ignorance and hatred.

Precisely. And the populace is in general not inoculated against the viral memes. They don't understand how to judge context, perspective or proportion because most people simply are not trained in critical thinking.

[mswas]

Originally Posted by GoSmoke

True, but I still find myself fairly pissed off at this reverend douchebag person.

Sure, he's a douchebag. It doesn't piss me off. It's more of a resigned sigh from me.

[Radical Edward]

I heard about this on the radio this morning, apparently Obama had made a statement on it.

I'm of two minds here. On the one hand, he has every right to light a book on fire. On the other, doing it would be against everything America is supposed to stand for. On yet another hand, stopping him would be against everything America stands for too. He has the right to do it, and we have the right to think he's a douchebag. What really sucks about it is the press it's getting--if nobody had heard about it, nobody would care. It shouldn't have been made public.