A Wizards True Name - Day 1

[Red Skeezix]

The first day of the great conclave begins with an address from the organizer of this meeting of great powers.

"Good Morning, as you are all aware my name is Carl Carlson, and I have the pleasure of convening this fine assembly of wizards. *Cough* Ahem. *Cough* *Cough* *COUGHCOUGHCOUGH*"

As the throat clearing turns to panicked gasps for breath, the old wizards face turns blue and he collapses on the dais to the sound of breaking glass. Upon examination, it is clear that he was poisoned. But by who, and why?

================================================


This is the start of Day 1. Day 1 will end on Monday March 9th @ 7pm EDT. The number of votes required to hammer is 11. Good Luck!

[Visorslash]

[Mrs McGinty]

vote Swammerdami

[guiri]

Swammi's a popular chap this morning!

Any thoughts on the game setup? I struggle to see how the names work, we know our first names, scum know their last names, there's presumably at least one doppelgänger for each of us and if we investigate them, we learn their alignment as long as no-one else is investigating them? Do we blindly investigate hoping to find out other half? Would scum not simply investigate each other to prevent anyone else from getting a read? What use would they have to investigate non-scum?

And even if we manage to sniff out a scum through investigation, wouldn't that be the best, on except endgame, the only time they'd use the day-kill?

What am I missing? Should we be sharing our names hoping there's a townie who matches so that we can slowly clear each other and reduce the pool for scum?

[guiri]

NETA come to think of it, if scum are busy blocking investigations of their buddies by townies, that gives townies a decent chance of successfully investigating another townie so it wouldn't be the optimal strategy.

Any thoughts on the value or risks of a name claim? Would forcing scum to commit to a first name have any value? Would giving away our names hurt us?

[BillMc]

IF everyone is investigatable, every name pair must occur at least once - so at most we will have 7 pairs and one triple.

For a successful investigation you need both first and last.
For scum to use their day kill, they need first and last.

Since we need both names, that suggests that there will be folk with the same first name but different surname, and vice versa. So the number of unique names will be smaller.

There does not appear to be any mechanism (apart from reveal on death) to find out folks names - so either we need to wait for death, or reveal.

With 17 players, so probably 3 or 4 scum. Let's call it 4 for analysis purposes.
So the 4 scum know 4 last names, town only knows their own first name.

If town does a name claim, as per gurgi's suggestion - the scum would learn all possible first names, which combined with the three surnames they already know would put them at an advantage. The first name claim would only be to town's advantage if we randomly selected all the scum to claim first - so they would have to guess at a name.

Likewise, a surname claim doesn't yield much either, as town would be guessing and scum would be lying.

At this point, all I can think of would be for everyone to state a first name and last name. Then upon death, we can compare the claim with reality to narrow down the scum pool. e.g. if I claimed Barney Rubble, and the first death was Barney Dinosaur (yeah!) then you know that I was truthful about my first name. But as with Guiri's suggestion, if scum don't claim first, they can just claim the same name. So not a great idea either.


Of course, Newark could be a secret enclave of iceland, and everyone is carl carlson or carla carlsdottir :-)

[guiri]

Originally Posted by BillMc

There does not appear to be any mechanism (apart from reveal on death) to find out folks names - so either we need to wait for death, or reveal.

Well, there's blind luck. If you investigate someone and get a result, it means your first and last names match...

Originally Posted by BillMc

If town does a name claim, as per gurgi's suggestion - the scum would learn all possible first names, which combined with the three surnames they already know would put them at an advantage.

What's the advantage? Sure, one of the scum could day-kill a single town player, and cancel their vote that Day, but, since the killer is public, that would be a one-for-one exchange which is pretty great for Town.

Originally Posted by BillMc

Likewise, a surname claim doesn't yield much either, as town would be guessing and scum would be lying.

How would town be guessing, they simply couldn't claim. Would scum lie?

Originally Posted by BillMc

At this point, all I can think of would be for everyone to state a first name and last name. Then upon death, we can compare the claim with reality to narrow down the scum pool. e.g. if I claimed Barney Rubble, and the first death was Barney Dinosaur (yeah!) then you know that I was truthful about my first name. But as with Guiri's suggestion, if scum don't claim first, they can just claim the same name. So not a great idea either.

Well, if there are three or more claimed Barneys, we have some information to go on.

I presume the game is not easily solvable or easily broken but information is good.

[Swammerdami]

Instead of claiming our exact first names, why not do partial reveals like "My name has 7 letters including a Q." Scum, knowing none of the first names, would have to fake-claim; they might borrow one of the Townie-claimed names "I also have a 7-letter name with a Q." But this lie opens them up to the eventual challenge: "Oh yeah? If your name's the same as mine, what's the second letter?"

Anyway, the only time a Scummy will try a Day Kill is when that Scummy is about to be Lynched anyway, right?

If we are going to do such (highly restricted) first-name reveals we should do it during Day 1, I think, before death reveals start letting Scum know the inventory of first names.

[guiri]

Originally Posted by Heterometrus swammerdami

Anyway, the only time a Scummy will try a Day Kill is when that Scummy is about to be Lynched anyway, right?

Of course, that makes 3 occasions:
- when outed due to an investigation
- when lynch is forgone conclusion
- at endgame

Originally Posted by Heterometrus swammerdami

If we are going to do such (highly restricted) first-name reveals we should do it during Day 1, I think, before death reveals start letting Scum know the inventory of first names.

Agreed that it should be today, if ever.

[Scáthach]

The problem with picking people at random is that it's pretty likely there'll be collisions and so people will inadvertently block each other. Plus any attempt to coordinate is going to be easily exploitable by scum.

Originally Posted by Heterometrus swammerdami

Instead of claiming our exact first names, why not do partial reveals like "My name has 7 letters including a Q."

I think this is probably a good idea, if a little metagamey. (Kind of reminds me of those claims like "My PM is exactly 100 letters long and the fifth word starts with a K" dealies). Still though, since finding peoples names is a thing, and we have no way to do that without some sort of claim, then this seems like a solid way to go.

[Swammerdami]

Let's do it. Someone (Scáthach ?) should set a claim order. Anyone reluctant gets FOS.

I'll volunteer to go first, but will wait an hour or three for more discussion.

[guiri]

Originally Posted by Heterometrus swammerdami

Let's do it. Someone (Scáthach ?) should set a claim order. Anyone reluctant gets FOS.

I'll volunteer to go first, but will wait an hour or three for more discussion.

Or twelve, only 6 players have even checked in since Dawn and only 4 of us have commented on this, are you in a hurry?

[Colby11]

I disagree on this. Any information that Town gives Scum is a useless tactic.

[gnarlycharlie]

interesting analysis so far. can anyone explain why D1 would be the best to do the claims?

also . he or she has never had the honor and pleasure of my vote.

[guiri]

Originally Posted by Colby11

I disagree on this. Any information that Town gives Scum is a useless tactic.

Maybe. It´s not about giving information to scum, it´s about town having more information than we have now. Scum at least know each others' last names, we know nothing. Leveling the knowledge available can only benefit town, or do you have any specific reason why it´s useless in this game?

[Scáthach]

Originally Posted by gnarlycharlie

interesting analysis so far. can anyone explain why D1 would be the best to do the claims?

also . he or she has never had the honor and pleasure of my vote.

On the assumption that scum don't know any first names right now, but will have examples to base false claims on after a few death reveals.

Incidentally, are we sure that's a fair assumption? The rules state pretty clearly that scum only know their last names, but it's not really 100% clear on if they have any sample names, or mod-given fake role claims? I suppose given that the whole gimmick of this game appears to be name-based then it's probably a bit much to give the scum an advantage like that.

[Mahaloth]

Originally Posted by gnarlycharlie

interesting analysis so far. can anyone explain why D1 would be the best to do the claims?

So the scum team can't have time to get their act together.

I say let's do it. However, by it I mean "claim" and I don't know if full names is wise or just something else.

Maybe the first letter of our first names and how many letters are in them?

[Mahaloth]

Here is a random order form random.org, which can randomize lists. I used the sign-up list.

There were 17 items in your list. Here they are in random order:

14. BillMc
16. Mrs. McGinty
7. texcat
5. bufftabby
13. gnarlycharlie
3. Chaos
9. lightfoot
10. Heterometrus swammerdami
8. guiri
15. Colby11
17. Scathach
1. Mahaloth
6. Sister Coyote
4. Zuma
12. Giraffe
2. Visorslash
11. Dizzymrslizzy

[SisterCoyote]

Originally Posted by Colby11

I disagree on this. Any information that Town gives Scum is a useless tactic.

I'm with Colby on this.

What benefit is there to Town in everyone knowing everyone else's first names?

And guiri, I disagree with your rebuttal. Yes, Scum know each others' last names -- again; how does that benefit them? And how will having everyone's names out in the open benefit Town?

FOS me if you like. I'm certainly FOSing you; I can see too many ways the information, even coded, you're freely giving could be used by Scum but not by Town.

[guiri]

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

I'm with Colby on this.

What benefit is there to Town in everyone knowing everyone else's first names?

And guiri, I disagree with your rebuttal. Yes, Scum know each others' last names -- again; how does that benefit them? And how will having everyone's names out in the open benefit Town?

FOS me if you like. I'm certainly FOSing you; I can see too many ways the information, even coded, you're freely giving could be used by Scum but not by Town.

1. Scum are forced to lie, and can be caught out in the lie when we look at all the claimed names
2. Town can possibly clear other townies if their names match, especially if we avoid posting the exact same clues
3. Upon reveal of one player, we can know that there's at least one other player with that name

How exactly do you see scum using the information that my first name has 7 letters, one of which is an N?

[SisterCoyote]

Originally Posted by guiri

1. Scum are forced to lie, and can be caught out in the lie when we look at all the claimed names

If they don't have cover IDs, sure. Are you willing to Bet Your Life on that?

2. Town can possibly clear other townies if their names match, especially if we avoid posting the exact same clues

Mm. Maybe. But I am dubious.

3. Upon reveal of one player, we can know that there's at least one other player with that name

And?

How exactly do you see scum using the information that my first name has 7 letters, one of which is an N?

You don't need me to answer that question, and I don't want to give Scum any ideas they don't already have, thanks.

[guiri]

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

You don't need me to answer that question, and I don't want to give Scum any ideas they don't already have, thanks.

Actually I do, and this is a silly argument, scum have 2, 3 or 4 minds to put together to come up with strategies, if we don't discuss them here because we might be giving scum ideas, we may as well just vote blindly and ignore the thread for the rest of the Day.

Having cover IDs is a risk I'm happy to take, I don´t think the information we give will be much use to them - unless you say why it´s such a terrible idea.

As for single death reveals, if someone called Morris dies, and only one other person has posted a clue that matches Morris, we can assume that person was being truthful. If it turns out that scum had cover IDs with real matching names, then we´ll realize soon enough.

Not sure what you're so strongly opposed to, if it's such a bad idea, I'd prefer you said why now before we make a mistake that will be regretted.

[Mrs McGinty]

Originally Posted by gnarlycharlie

also . he or she has never had the honor and pleasure of my vote.

Have I not? I don't want to get all old timey and such, but, years back, I did play in games with a few of you guys (at Straight Dope under this name, and at the org under 'Winston Hughes'), so it's possible this isn't our first time. Anyhows, I thank you for your welcome.

p.s. In case anyone is waiting for me to reveal my true name, it's Beau. But you all can call me Mr Lockes.

[SisterCoyote]

Originally Posted by guiri

Actually I do, and this is a silly argument, scum have 2, 3 or 4 minds to put together to come up with strategies, if we don't discuss them here because we might be giving scum ideas, we may as well just vote blindly and ignore the thread for the rest of the Day.

That's ridiculous and you know it.

Having cover IDs is a risk I'm happy to take, I don´t think the information we give will be much use to them - unless you say why it´s such a terrible idea.

Anything we give them that could be used against us (as in, for example, the Day kill -- or investigations) is a bad idea. If I say that my name has seven letters and has an "X" in the seventh position, then they can start putting together the pieces of everyone's names and because Scum have many brains rather than one can probably do more with that information than Town can as far as working out people's names.

As for single death reveals, if someone called Morris dies, and only one other person has posted a clue that matches Morris, we can assume that person was being truthful. If it turns out that scum had cover IDs with real matching names, then we´ll realize soon enough.

I think there's a fundamental assumption here about the number of repetitions in first names. In your example here: Yes, we will have duplicate names. But that doesn't mean there can't be two Morris Meowmixes, and three Morris Williamsons (following Bill's theory about multiple pairs and one triple).

Not sure what you're so strongly opposed to, if it's such a bad idea, I'd prefer you said why now before we make a mistake that will be regretted.

I am generally opposed to the free donation of information to the Scum cause. This has been true in every game I've ever played, and I seem to recall that you and I have butted heads about this before. Regardless, though:

1) I don't think we can safely assume that there are seven pairs of first names and one triple first name. I think it's far more likely that there are four to five individuals with the *same* first name. So no, I don't think giving up the information helps Town at all.

2) Playing the guessing game just gives Scum and their multiple brains more opportunities to break the code and use that plus the investigative power to figure out people's full names, which brings that Day Kill power into play.

3) I never want to shut down discussion, but I do want to shut down ideas I think are bad ones because they won't help Town win.

[Mrs McGinty]

By the way, what are the rules on foul language around these parts?

[SisterCoyote]

Originally Posted by Mrs McGinty

Have I not? I don't want to get all old timey and such, but, years back, I did play in games with a few of you guys (at Straight Dope under this name, and at the org under 'Winston Hughes'), so it's possible this isn't our first time. Anyhows, I thank you for your welcome.

p.s. In case anyone is waiting for me to reveal my true name, it's Beau. But you all can call me Mr Lockes.

Funny, I thought you were Beau Geste.

[Mrs McGinty]

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

Funny, I thought you were Beau Geste.

Well, I am a metaphor for British upper-middle class values. Apart from the casual racism, of course.

[SisterCoyote]

Originally Posted by Mrs McGinty

Well, I am a metaphor for British upper-middle class values. Apart from the casual racism, of course.

A valid point.

And as far as swearing in these parts?

Fuck if I know.

[Mrs McGinty]

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

Fuck if I know.

Excellent. I've waited a long time for this...

fffff...

fffffffff....

fffffffffff.....

It's no good. I've internalised the heavy-handed moderation of my usual haunts.

[Scáthach]

Scum Team Power Description:
<snip>
2. Each night you may select one team member to investigate another player. This investigation will only succeed if you have the same first and last name as the player being investigated, and you are the only person investigating that player that evening. Otherwise you will receive "No Results".

I was rereading the rules to see if scum have more of an advantage than town if they know names and this line is really confusing me. What investigation could be taking place here? Town get alignment results, but scum know alignment already? And all the roles are the same?

[guiri]

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

That's ridiculous and you know it.

Well, we could be here all Day at this rate...

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

Anything we give them that could be used against us (as in, for example, the Day kill -- or investigations) is a bad idea.

What's bad about scum investigating town? As for the single use, entirely public Day kill, you can be sure it will be used sooner or later unless scum stop playing.

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

I think there's a fundamental assumption here about the number of repetitions in first names. In your example here: Yes, we will have duplicate names. But that doesn't mean there can't be two Morris Meowmixes, and three Morris Williamsons (following Bill's theory about multiple pairs and one triple).

Now that's a valid point, in fact even more reason to do a partial claim, especially if scum do not have valid cover roles. It means there are even fewer valid names and we'll identify fake ones quickly...

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

I am generally opposed to the free donation of information to the Scum cause. This has been true in every game I've ever played, and I seem to recall that you and I have butted heads about this before.

I don't recall that but it may well be true but then say so rather than hinting at some terrible flaw in the plan that you're the only person smart enough to have identified... As for your final points, meh, fewer valid first names is good, the Day kill comes with a sacrificial scum so good, bad ideas may trigger good ones, but the discussion may be useful.

[guiri]

Originally Posted by Scáthach

I was rereading the rules to see if scum have more of an advantage than town if they know names and this line is really confusing me. What investigation could be taking place here? Town get alignment results, but scum know alignment already? And all the roles are the same?

I didn't notice it was only one scum player could investigate, that's actually good for us as they can only interfere with a single investigation. What am I missing now?

[Scáthach]

Originally Posted by guiri

I didn't notice it was only one scum player could investigate, that's actually good for us as they can only interfere with a single investigation. What am I missing now?

Like what results would they get? Alignment? Or is it just that by the very fact of getting results or not (whatever the results are) they can check if someone has the same name as them?

[guiri]

Originally Posted by Scáthach

Like what results would they get? Alignment? Or is it just that by the very fact of getting results or not (whatever the results are) they can check if someone has the same name as them?

Yes, they could learn a player's last name, if it matches their own, or their own first name, if it matches the other players, or reduce the pool of possibilities by exclusion, and they could use their single investigation to block other players from investigating the same person. I don't see why learning alignment would be useful to them but the result has other benefits.

[Scáthach]

Originally Posted by guiri

Yes, they could learn a player's last name, if it matches their own, or their own first name, if it matches the other players, or reduce the pool of possibilities by exclusion, and they could use their single investigation to block other players from investigating the same person. I don't see why learning alignment would be useful to them but the result has other benefits.

Doesn't it seem very underpowered though? They have a one shot day kill with the massive drawback of outting whoever uses it as scum, and they can only use it if they successfully find out someone's full name via a one - a - night process of exclusion?

Meanwhile every town player is a alignment investigator (albeit a limited one).

I mean, if so, good I guess, I just want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding something.



Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[Mrs McGinty]

I'm instinctively leery about early mass-claims, but I'm struggling to find a good case against one here. Indeed, it seems so weighted in the town's favour, that I'm wondering if the scum numbers are higher than might be expected, to compensate them for the danger it presents.

[Swammerdami]

Originally Posted by Mahaloth

... Maybe the first letter of our first names and how many letters are in them?

Or even less than that, e.g. "six letters at least one of which is A."

Ambiguities can be addressed with challenges later, perhaps Day 2 or later. The important thing to begin with is to get Scum on record with their lies.

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by BillMc

IF everyone is investigatable, every name pair must occur at least once - so at most we will have 7 pairs and one triple.

For a successful investigation you need both first and last.
For scum to use their day kill, they need first and last.

Since we need both names, that suggests that there will be folk with the same first name but different surname, and vice versa. So the number of unique names will be smaller.

I don't think this is necessarily true. The only thing I think we know for sure is that there will be multiple people who have the same first and last name, otherwise the investigative powers would be pointless. There could be seven pairs of (first name, last name) with no overlap in between. This essentially gives every scum their own Cop, although the fact that we have an odd number of players could give scum an uninvestigateable player.

But there are a number of other possibilities, e.g. what if the scum all have the same last name? In that case, only the Town player(s) with that last name is actually a Cop and the rest are useless, but Town wouldn't know which player it was. Scum would need to find the Town player(s) with that last name, which they could do by systematically pairing all the claimed first names with their own last name and doing their own investigations until they are successful, at which point they could make themselves immune from investigation by killing that player. In this scenario, a name claim is a bad idea for Town: we'd be helping scum kill our Cop without our knowing it and giving them a free Day kill at some point.

We don't yet have any name data to work with, so I'm worried about exposing the one bit of information we were given to scum this early. We could be handing them critical information on a platter. I think most experienced game mods are not going to set up a game that can be so easily solved with a mass claim. (And as an aside, let's note that the name of the game is "A Wizard's True Name", implying that the name information is valuable.)

I'm also a bit suspicious of a player coming out of the gate and pushing for a mass claim so quickly: if scum do have a reason to want Town's name info, Bill's post is a good way to try to get it.

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by Scáthach

Doesn't it seem very underpowered though? They have a one shot day kill with the massive drawback of outting whoever uses it as scum, and they can only use it if they successfully find out someone's full name via a one - a - night process of exclusion?

Meanwhile every town player is a alignment investigator (albeit a limited one).

This is a good point. The fact that scum gets only one name investigation every Night vs. Town getting ~13 alignment investigations would seem to point to name information being valuable to them. Getting to do a public day kill doesn't seem like enough of a payoff, the name info must have value beyond that. Is it possible scum have additional powers that weren't disclosed in the rules thread? Red said that scum all have the same ability, do we know that they only have the abilities he laid out?

Originally Posted by Red Skeezix

Anatomy of a Role
In this game, the role will consist of 3 parts. The alignment, the first name, and the last name. All town players have the same ability an all scum players have the same ability. At the outset of the game, scum players will know their own last names only, and town players will know their first names only. Upon death the alignment and both names will be revealed.

===============================================


Town Player Power Description:
1. During the night you may target a player for an alignment investigation. You should specify this to the moderator via PM before the end of the night. This investigation will only succeed if you have the same first and last name as the player being investigated, and you are the only person investigating that player that evening. Otherwise you will receive "No Results".


===============================================


Scum Team Power Description:
1. Each night you may select one team member to kill another player.
2. Each night you may select one team member to investigate another player. This investigation will only succeed if you have the same first and last name as the player being investigated, and you are the only person investigating that player that evening. Otherwise you will receive "No Results".
3. One time this game, a member of the scum team may kill a living player during the Day.

a. The targetted player's vote for that day will not count, but they will not die until the end of the day.
b. To use this power, the player who will do the killing must publicly post in the game thread " {Name of Player} from the heart of hell I stab at thee, {First Name of Player to die} {Last name of player to die}!". Note that the first and last name must be correct or the kill will not go through.
For example: If I was a scum player who wished to kill giraffe whose first name is 'Ab' and last name is 'Retread', I would post "Giraffe from the heart of hell I stab at thee, Ab Retread!"

4. You may use a private message board specified by the moderator to discuss strategy at any time.
===============================================


Additional note: The town investigation interferes with the scum investigation and vice versa.

[TexCat]

Perhaps we should just start with how many letters are in our names and see what we get. If it turns out that we all have 5 letter names, then we can go around again with another bit of info.

The point is to make our investigations more productive, right? If my name has 5 letters, it's pointless for me to investigate anyone with a 4 letter name. If there are only 3 players that have 5 letter names, we don't need to publicly state the names, we can just investigate all 3 pretty quickly.

We will also need to coordinate who is investigating who so that we try not to interfere with each other. This may make it easy for scum to interfere with one investigation, but it also means that a large number of investigations will go through.

[Scáthach]

Originally Posted by TexCat

We will also need to coordinate who is investigating who so that we try not to interfere with each other. This may make it easy for scum to interfere with one investigation, but it also means that a large number of investigations will go through.

Yeah I'm more OK with the idea of coordinating investigations given that scum can only block one.

[Scáthach]

Like if the worst case scenario for a full name reveal is that scum are more likely to pull off their one shot kill vs town being able to do lots of successful investigations, I think that's a fair trade off.

The only way it seems to work out badly is if the paired names are somehow skewed in a way as to be disadvantageous to town.

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by Scáthach

Like if the worst case scenario for a full name reveal is that scum are more likely to pull off their one shot kill vs town being able to do lots of successful investigations, I think that's a fair trade off.

What do you mean "full name reveal"? Town doesn't get names from investigations, Town gets alignments. Do you have your full name?




That could have easily been a scum brain fart right there.

The only way it seems to work out badly is if the paired names are somehow skewed in a way as to be disadvantageous to town.

Yes, which seems very possible to me. I don't believe Skeezix makes a game that is solved by a simple mass claim.

[Scáthach]

Originally Posted by Giraffe

What do you mean "full name reveal"? Town doesn't get names from investigations, Town gets alignments. Do you have your full name?

Full as in total and complete reveal of all names. Like, theoretically, if everyone knew all names is it better for town or scum?



Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by Scáthach

Full as in total and complete reveal of all names. Like, theoretically, if everyone knew all names is it better for town or scum?

OK, that makes sense. For a second you got me wondering if maybe scum knew their first and last names and Town only knew their first: I hadn't remembered that the rules say scum only know their last names, just that they know their last names.

That could still have been a slip in terms of the scum investigation vs. the Town investigation, but that feels a bit more like grasping at straws. I'll stick with my original vote for now.

[Mrs McGinty]

Originally Posted by Giraffe

But there are a number of other possibilities, e.g. what if the scum all have the same last name? In that case, only the Town player(s) with that last name is actually a Cop and the rest are useless, but Town wouldn't know which player it was. Scum would need to find the Town player(s) with that last name, which they could do by systematically pairing all the claimed first names with their own last name and doing their own investigations until they are successful, at which point they could make themselves immune from investigation by killing that player. In this scenario, a name claim is a bad idea for Town: we'd be helping scum kill our Cop without our knowing it and giving them a free Day kill at some point.

Ah, now that's something I hadn't thought of. But would it mean that the scum all had the same first name as well?

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by Mrs McGinty

Ah, now that's something I hadn't thought of. But would it mean that the scum all had the same first name as well?

Huh, you're right. The Cop wouldn't be a Cop unless he/she could investigate them all or at least most of the scum. So then, yeah, all or most scum would have the same first and last name. Which would make their investigation power a straight up hunt for their Town namesake.

Ooh, I just thought of something that might explain the rules around the Day kill. Let's say all the scum are named John Smith. They know their last name is Smith, but they don't know their first name so they can't day kill the Cop. Even if Town claims all their first names, they can't kill John Smith because they don't know how to call him out by first+last name. But, once a scum gets lynched, boom: they know their first name. They can NK whoever claimed a first name of John or the next scum to get lynched can take the Cop out with them using the Day kill.

[LightFoot]

A few thoughts while I have a break at work.

I don’t know how close to lore we are playing- but I do know that a wizard’s true name is as Kryptonite to Superman. A wizard can be destroyed by another merely guessing their true name .- And it is NEVER given freely.


Visor & Mrs MG anything to add to your first rattle out of the box votes on Swammi?

Usually ‘is name has multiple variations of spelling and contraction in game- and yet you both used the exact same moniker?



guiri’s list
1.Scum are forced to lie, and can be caught out in the lie when we look at all the claimed names
2. Town can possibly clear other townies if their names match, especially if we avoid posting the exact same clues
3. Upon reveal of one player, we can know that there's at least one other player with that name
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Um… so there is no way that Scum would claim the same names ?

What is to stop Scum from all claiming to be “Fred” or some claiming “Fred” and some claiming “Wilma” depending on how many there are?

OR simply claiming a name already claimed ?*

Then the name claim would give Scum True first names .- Also it would leave Town with less information- ( false first names)

* this could also create lynch mobs based on the " no way could there be 4 'Joe's' in this game lynch them!"


if I am way off base here set me straight- I know someone will

[Scáthach]

Originally Posted by Mrs McGinty

Ah, now that's something I hadn't thought of. But would it mean that the scum all had the same first name as well?

But a cop can confirm town as well as identify scum? Like even if no one was able to investigate scum, it would still be useful to confirm some townies

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by Scáthach

But a cop can confirm town as well as identify scum? Like even if no one was able to investigate scum, it would still be useful to confirm some townies

That would be completely up to the game setup. If all scum are John Smith, then the number of shared names among Town would be a knob the mod could tune to give Town extra investigative ability. If Town players are all paired up, then the investigations would clear a couple of people per Day on average just based on the odds. That's probably too pro-Town of a game, so something less favorable is more likely, IMO.

Note that I'm not suggesting that the most likely scenario is that all the scum have the same name, that was just a hypothetical to explore the ways different distributions of names could impact the outcome of a mass claim. Right now it's pure speculation, it will be easier to narrow things down once we have some investigation results and a couple of dead bodies.