Day TWO: Double Vision Mafia

[Raith Kemmler]

Originally Posted by LightFoot

soo..... you two share a brain now?

No, that's just the simplest interpretation. Lulz is a drama queen, and being that loud gives one advantages, such as clearly delineated voice and persona. Combined with context clues and phrasing, yields that as the intended meaning.

Now, that could be an obfuscation, maybe Lulz is actually subtexting about being scum, and you've caught on. But that's not the consciously intended meaning.

Besides, if people didn't share some instinctual understanding of each other's thinking, this game would be nigh impossible.

If you're trying to pick for a response and I ruined that, apologies, but it looked fairly evident personally.

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by guiri

Lightfoot, I don't consider that a smoking gun, maybe someone else has botched formatting, maybe SisC created the PMs on proboards and realised her mistake after a few PMs went out, and yeah, maybe scum have a proboards offboard and he forgot to preview.

anyone want to check their role PM and see if they have borked coding?

[lulz]

Originally Posted by Raith Kemmler

No, that's just the simplest interpretation. Lulz is a drama queen, and being that loud gives one advantages, such as clearly delineated voice and persona. Combined with context clues and phrasing, yields that as the intended meaning.

Now, that could be an obfuscation, maybe Lulz is actually subtexting about being scum, and you've caught on. But that's not the consciously intended meaning.

Besides, if people didn't share some instinctual understanding of each other's thinking, this game would be nigh impossible.

If you're trying to pick for a response and I ruined that, apologies, but it looked fairly evident personally.

Raith Kemmlar is towning so hard right now.

[guiri]

Originally Posted by lulz

There is an outside chance mal is a third party killer and the secret person is the doc.

Very much outside: "This is a two-faction game, Scum and Town. There are no third parties and no PFK roles."

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by lulz

Mahaloth is scum Roleblocker.

silver jan is "not doctor" but is some other role.

It's likely there's not a cop this game because that+Full Watcher is just too powerful for town. However some other weaker investigation role would be acceptable.

I would be a good target for a weaker investigation role like a Tracker, Follower, etc. Just to confirm that I did what I said I did.

I would not have been targeted by a jailkeeper because that prevents me from proving I would do what I said I did.

As you correctly mentioned, I would never have joined another faction if recruited.

There is an outside chance mal is a third party killer and the secret person is the doc.

May I ask...
Is the third person a townread for you or a scumread? You don't have to answer if that's too much of a clue.

per the rules

Wincons
This is a two-faction game, Scum and Town. There are no third parties and no PFK roles.

[LightFoot]

ninja'd

[Swammerdami]

Originally Posted by guiri

Lightfoot, I don't consider that a smoking gun, maybe someone else has botched formatting, maybe SisC created the PMs on proboards and realised her mistake after a few PMs went out, and yeah, maybe scum have a proboards offboard and he forgot to preview.

Good catch, guiri. Maybe not a smoking gun, but people have been sent to the electric chair on less.



(I'll hesitate before removing the vote on SJan.)

[LightFoot]

fair enough guiri on one level- as stated previous I want to believe mahaloth ( sounds like a role I would like to use in future) the rest of the PM sounds right- even the caveat fits with what I know- but..... I now think it is an adapted Scum role PM by the owner

[LightFoot]

although------------------more thinking-------------what was adjusted in the PM


if non-human ( note the difference in terms short version vs long version) was origionally human and Scum was Town then lulz would still have been killed with the power if not protected. by this process
-- since the PM says that their (maha's) name would alo be included in the random.org use of the power - if an order isn't sent- then Maha is not human ( not that i matters as of now that we know of)


conclusion............. either way lulz was protected in some manner last Night
and I think now that Maha is Scum

[idrinkthere4iam]

I can confirm that my PM did not have the same coding as Mahaloth's.

[idrinkthere4iam]

Originally Posted by Mahaloth

Long version:

Now, choose. Save me, possibly protect me, and trust me(despite my foolishness) to make good shots or lynch me and punish me for my foolish moves in the game.

I'm sorry, folks, this has not been my best performance.

Above is Mahaloth's claim. I bolded part of it above. as it doesn't match my PM

Here's a snippet of my PM, which I posted at the end of Night 1:

"If you are Banished, you will be fully dead and your death reveal will be complete (Crowley, Crossroads Demon, Infernal Town, Vanilla)."

Which you compare to what Mahaloth's says:

"If you are Banished, you will be fully dead and your death reveal will be complete (Dean Winchester, Human Town, Mandatory Vig)."

My role PM had 4 items that would be revealed upon my Banishment, his only has 3 items. I didn't see if Archangel posted their PM to compare it to that one. This could very well be nothing at all, but it just struck me as odd...

Anyone care to comment one way or another?

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by idrinkthere4iam

Above is Mahaloth's claim. I bolded part of it above. as it doesn't match my PM

Here's a snippet of my PM, which I posted at the end of Night 1:

"If you are Banished, you will be fully dead and your death reveal will be complete (Crowley, Crossroads Demon, Infernal Town, Vanilla)."

Which you compare to what Mahaloth's says:

"If you are Banished, you will be fully dead and your death reveal will be complete (Dean Winchester, Human Town, Mandatory Vig)."

My role PM had 4 items that would be revealed upon my Banishment, his only has 3 items. I didn't see if Archangel posted their PM to compare it to that one. This could very well be nothing at all, but it just struck me as odd...

Anyone care to comment one way or another?

that is also one of the items that would have had to be edited if Scum- or the mod typoed
on its own NBD with the other= relevant

[lulz]

Originally Posted by idrinkthere4iam

Anyone care to comment one way or another?

I can confirm that when I quote my own role pm it doesn't mess up the color tag on the word "TOWN". We all knew mahaloth was scum. It's just a matter of why isn't the town lynching him. It's a matter of why are there not one but TWO counterwagons to OBVIOUS CONFIRMED SCUM. Not one. TWO!

[LightFoot]

mine reads Name,species alignment,role
only the two commas

[LightFoot]

please lulz I am not tracking the multi votes very effectively- but without an official vote count I see a player that you yelled was Town in the front runners-- can you pick a side?

[Archangel]

I'll post my PM if it will help.

[Archangel]

You are John Winchester.

You know, when you were a kid, I'd come home from a hunt, and after what I'd seen, I'd be, I'd be wrecked. And you, you'd come up to me and you, you'd put your hand on my shoulder and you'd look me in the eye and you'd... You'd say "It's okay, Dad"

You're either the World's Best father or the World's shittiest. You dragged your very young sons around on your hunting trips, but you did go to Hell for them.

You are Town
You are Human
Your role is Watcher

As long as you are Alive, during the Night phase you can send me the name of one player. You will then set up watch on that player and see everyone who visits him or her during the night. At Dawn, you will receive a list of player names and no other information.

On your first death, you will be allowed to continue posting in the threads as though you were still Alive, but you may not vote. Your death reveal will contain only your species ("human").

If you are Banished, you will be fully dead and your death reveal will be complete (John Winchester, Human Town, Watcher).

Town wins when all Scum are Dead, whether or not they have been Banished.
__________________

[Archangel]

So, only 3 reveals the way mine is worded. I'm not sure whether that's significant or not.

[Raith Kemmler]

Mine is also only three items, combining species with alignment in the listing.

[idrinkthere4iam]

Ok, must be nothing then. It was just different than mine, and I wasn't sure if it was important or not.

[lulz]

Originally Posted by LightFoot

please lulz I am not tracking the multi votes very effectively- but without an official vote count I see a player that you yelled was Town in the front runners-- can you pick a side?

Here are the leading wagons...

mAHALOTH (NEARLY CONFIRMED SCUM)
SILVERJAN (TOWN)
DAMMIE (TOWN)

The question is...
Why are there two competing counterwagons on townies when we have confirmed scum? Does this make sense to you Lightfoot? Does this happen often on this site when there's confirmed scum and then two townies get run up? Is that a thing here? I'm not trying to be smarmy, it's a genuine question.

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by Archangel

So, only 3 reveals the way mine is worded. I'm not sure whether that's significant or not.

it may very well be moot
we have another claimed vanilla ( at least) they may be able to verify that they do/do not have ",vanilla" at the end- but SisC would have avoided the handshake game imo so it is a [el] nevermind [/el] I think

and a player does not have to be banished to ' not count' in the end tally so -- yeah

[LightFoot]

lulz this is a multi vote game- it is not common here in my experience.


why not vote your 1,2,3 if you are able-
- nothing is certain there are no 'locked' Scum or 'locked' Town until we get a banishment ( which may not happen if it is projected and blocked)


are you advocating that players only vote once for your scum leans?- we won't-
filter the data as you see fit

myself- when it gets close I will likely remove my vote that creates a tie - if I am confident on my primary Scum lean- until then - nope

[LightFoot]

Some players will not listen to you anymore if you yell regularly- even the mayor of Town town or YDOC* 's self



_{*Your Deity OF Choice}

[Meeko]

Originally Posted by LightFoot

can you elaborate how 'we' know SJ is Town?

No. She can't I thought we were past this.

[Meeko]

Originally Posted by lulz

You could do the thing I've been advocating all game and analyze her play but if you can't do that you can just take my word for it since I am analyzing the game. I mean, I'm a little surprised that I'm the only one doing it but hey that's fine. It wouldn't be the first time.

Ah.

We took the prerequisite class "The rise and fall of the Unholy Chronos Analysis Program". Lulz has not.

Also;

Lulz you get a pass from me on voting you. However, don't flatter yourself into thinking that drawing town for this game means you know how to pick them. Random role assignment doesn't increase your intellect.

[Swammerdami]

I'm the other claimed Vaniila, so will show the "disputed" line of my PM:

"If you are Banished, you will be fully dead and your death reveal will be complete ([modifier] [name], Human Town, Vanilla)." That is I have the extra modifier like IDrink does, but only 2 commas.

But these variations are minor. It's the substitution of a FONT tag for COLOR that makes it very likely Mahaloth has faked his claim.

[Meeko]

Originally Posted by Heterometrus swammerdami

I'm the other claimed Vaniila, so will show the "disputed" line of my PM:

"If you are Banished, you will be fully dead and your death reveal will be complete ([modifier] [name], Human Town, Vanilla)." That is I have the extra modifier like IDrink does, but only 2 commas.

But these variations are minor. It's the substitution of a FONT tag for COLOR that makes it very likely Mahaloth has faked his claim.

So Maha went from to ?

[SisterCoyote]

Vote Count as of Post 278:

Mahaloth (11,11): Lulz (10a), Flying Squid with Goggles (64,106,144), guiri (92), Silver Jan (145), DizzyMrsLizzy (152), TexCat (195), BillMc (197), Raith Kemmler (234), LightFoot (245), Heterometrus swammerdami (257), Meeko (278)

Heterometrus swammerdami (6,6): TexCat (109), DizzyMrsLizzy (148), gnarlycharlie (176), Raith Kemmler (190), Meeko (196), BillMc (197)

Silver Jan (5,5): Lulz (10c,121), LightFoot (55,243,243), DizzyMrsLizzy (147), Heterometrus swammerdami (168), Meeko (202), Mahaloth (210)

DizzyMrsLizzy (3,4): lulz (63), Heterometrus swammerdami (101,185), Silver Jan (153), Gnarlycharlie (176)

TexCat (2,2): Lulz (10b), Heterometrus swammerdami (101)
gnarlycharlie (2,2): LightFoot (55,243,243), heterometrus swammerdami (180)

Meeko (1,1): Lulz (22)
Scathach (1,1): Flying Squid with Goggles (64)
DizzyMrsLizzy (1,1): Silver Jan (153)
lulz (1,1): Mahaloth (210)
Raith Kemmler (1,1): LightFoot (243)

Toonces (0,1): LightFoot (55,243)

With these votes, Mahaloth will be lynched.

[Dizzymrslizzy]

Originally Posted by lulz

The third person who targeted me is an investigation role. I'm fairly certain of it. And I'm fine with them being quiet and Archangel can reveal them on an as needed basis.

How do you know that?

And what about Silver Jan's claim that you were NOT a target of a NK. @SilverJan Care to explain???

[Dizzymrslizzy]

I'm going to for the moment.

I have another issue.

We have 3 visitors to Lulz.

Lulz Claims to have acted and Failed.
Mahaloth Claims to have Vig Killed Lulz and Failed.
Silver Jan Claims she was visiting Lulz, and knows that he wasn't a target of a Night Kill.
Player 3 visited Lulz. Player 3 can't be both the Doctor and the Roleblocker.

It does put a very bad light on Mahaloth. But I'd like to hear about SJ's claim before sticking the final knife in Mahaloth. Something else just feels off here.

Also my color tags were correct.

[Mahaloth]

Originally Posted by LightFoot

well hell

You are [b ][color=blue ]Town[/color ][/b ] (I added the spaces)

Is how mine reads ( didn't think to check that skibble) would Sis change methods?

[font color="Blue"]Town[/font]

doesn;t work

I just quoted my PM. I looked now and if you would believe it, I do have a messed up code in my original PM. I didn't even notice!

I wanted to kill lulz because I suspected him.

[gnarlycharlie]

Originally Posted by LightFoot

( easier than typing them separate)

process of elimination of the watched players

avoiding the main points

most recent post- feels fishy and it is late enough in the Day that a vote should have a reason

i already explained why i haven't made a decision. if that isn't sufficient for you... :shrugs:

Originally Posted by Heterometrus swammerdami

Good catch, guiri. Maybe not a smoking gun, but people have been sent to the electric chair on less.



(I'll hesitate before removing the vote on SJan.)

again, you seem adamant in lynching between this two. if one is scum the other shouldn't be. seems to me you know both are town.

Originally Posted by idrinkthere4iam

Above is Mahaloth's claim. I bolded part of it above. as it doesn't match my PM

Here's a snippet of my PM, which I posted at the end of Night 1:

"If you are Banished, you will be fully dead and your death reveal will be complete (Crowley, Crossroads Demon, Infernal Town, Vanilla)."

Which you compare to what Mahaloth's says:

"If you are Banished, you will be fully dead and your death reveal will be complete (Dean Winchester, Human Town, Mandatory Vig)."

My role PM had 4 items that would be revealed upon my Banishment, his only has 3 items. I didn't see if Archangel posted their PM to compare it to that one. This could very well be nothing at all, but it just struck me as odd...

Anyone care to comment one way or another?

it could mean the mod is experienced enough that PMs are different so players can't handshake. I'm not the type of player who reads too much into that. errors happen or the mod words PMs differently. in one game the mos purposely made punctuation, grammatical and spelling errors. it's like trying to decipher Meeko. it leads to madness.

[Mahaloth]

Originally Posted by gnarlycharlie

it could mean the mod is experienced enough that PMs are different so players can't handshake. I'm not the type of player who reads too much into that. errors happen or the mod words PMs differently. in one game the mos purposely made punctuation, grammatical and spelling errors. it's like trying to decipher Meeko. it leads to madness.

I prefer consistency and giving a sample vanilla pm. My bad pm(especially the coding) is going to do me in.

Before I die, let me at least point out that I'm good enough that if I made a fake pm, I would preview it and make sure it looked right.

Okay, lightfoot? It wasn't my fault!

[bladescape]

Sorry for my sorta afkness. Sick.



Swammi is quite possibly another scum.

[Meeko]

Originally Posted by gnarlycharlie

i already explained why i haven't made a decision. if that isn't sufficient for you... :shrugs:



again, you seem adamant in lynching between this two. if one is scum the other shouldn't be. seems to me you know both are town.

it could mean the mod is experienced enough that PMs are different so players can't handshake. I'm not the type of player who reads too much into that. errors happen or the mod words PMs differently. in one game the mos purposely made punctuation, grammatical and spelling errors. it's like trying to decipher Meeko. it leads to madness.

"You are starting to understand me. Don't do that, it leads to madness." Is indeed a line I often, often use, sometimes, even when I'm online.

That's nothing. The real fun came with the game I modded.


And in the game I modded, I made it a point to make each role pm unique [Hold your horses, I simply used synonyms, across powers and alignments; roles were "plotted" across a table of X and Y (and Z, if you count alignment / species) to get every combination possible. Technically unique, but not ZOMGWTFBBQ! Meeko made so many confusing any unique roles.]

Also, you have no clue how hard modding a game is, until you fail at it yourself.

[Meeko]

I don't know, how many other games had a town filled with Lemmings? :-)

[Swammerdami]

Although the font-tag seems damning, Mahaloth's claim seems too complicated to be contrived. And, like me, Mahaloth is one who often pings scummy when he's town.

I think Silver Jan should claim also, before we rush to judgement. With a queasy feeling, I feel it best to slow down the train.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Heterometrus, I think you're right. We have to consider whether townies can have PMs just as messed up as any that a scum might invent - PM formatting is not a reliable gauge of intentions, so there's no reason to rush to a lynch just because of it.

[Silver Jan]

I do not like being forced to claim and in this instance I don't think it is our best interests for me to do so.

My claim also has 3 things that will be revealed when I am banished but like I said before we are now just picking apart claims to see which ones are real and which could be faked.

[Silver Jan]

Originally Posted by Dizzymrslizzy

I'm going to for the moment.

I have another issue.

We have 3 visitors to Lulz.

Lulz Claims to have acted and Failed.
Mahaloth Claims to have Vig Killed Lulz and Failed.
Silver Jan Claims she was visiting Lulz, and knows that he wasn't a target of a Night Kill.
Player 3 visited Lulz. Player 3 can't be both the Doctor and the Roleblocker.

It does put a very bad light on Mahaloth. But I'd like to hear about SJ's claim before sticking the final knife in Mahaloth. Something else just feels off here.

Also my color tags were correct.

I did mention that I have a role that I am not willing to reveal at this time.

[lulz]

Originally Posted by guiri

Lightfoot, I don't consider that a smoking gun, maybe someone else has botched formatting, maybe SisC created the PMs on proboards and realised her mistake after a few PMs went out, and yeah, maybe scum have a proboards offboard and he forgot to preview.

guiri are you scum? This post is pinging me.

[LightFoot]

I slept on this


RE
Mahaloth - if we take the typo off the table what do we have? he claims to be a manditory vig-- could be usefull-- but his very first shot He chose to target a claimed banisher- and we need a banisher to resolve some of this game ( we could win this by blind luck-a but... It would resolve some issues if we had a proper reveal for some of the characters)


I f we give Mahaloth another chance- and he does not have a very good explaination the following Morning for his choice of target- off with his head? likewise if we lose two suspected Town power roles in one Night?

there is a school of thought that any vig is better off dead

@Mahaloth - what was your reasoning removing a claimed banisher?
--

lulz -if we take the Charlie link away ( because you all don't have anyway to believe me )- what do we have - he claims to be a banisher- see above we need one of those- ( although we have not seen any evidence to date to prove the ability) and he has a playstyle that begs for votes- worst case they are Scum- so they never use said power- we will know and we will keep them from going to end game.

--

SilverJan was seen visiting lulz - who I think ( with the crowd in their room ) was protected and blocked- [b] Jan's partial claim goes no where near claiming a protective power- therefore I think they are our roleblocker



Swammi I don't see the 'case' on 'm= I see he was pushing for players to choose from the front runner- but someone does that every game- what else is there?


With out further input I think SilverJan is a better candidate for the lynch


_{yes I know that lulz is not on the block toDay but their part in this needs noted}

[LightFoot]

-----------------------------

Originally Posted by gnarlycharlie

~snipped~
it could mean the mod is experienced enough that PMs are different so players can't handshake. I'm not the type of player who reads too much into that. errors happen or the mod words PMs differently. in one game the mos purposely made punctuation, grammatical and spelling errors. it's like trying to decipher Meeko. it leads to madness.

this is all true - BUT as much time as a Mod spends on elaborate PMs if they borked the tags they would delete and resend ( send a revised PM etc)

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by Silver Jan

I do not like being forced to claim and in this instance I don't think it is our best interests for me to do so.

My claim also has 3 things that will be revealed when I am banished but like I said before we are now just picking apart claims to see which ones are real and which could be faked.

^ will not get you unvoted

[Silver Jan]

I am not a roleblocker, you are really pushing for a claim LightFoot, can't you even think of one other reason why I could be there damnit.

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by Silver Jan

I am not a roleblocker, you are really pushing for a claim LightFoot, can't you even think of one other reason why I could be there damnit.

it seems that lulz was protected and blocked- but you claim neither- I can't reconcile it.
You say that you know that lulz was not the NK target ( we had a NK so -obvious) how does that give any clue to your supposed role?

[lulz]

Originally Posted by LightFoot

-----------------------------

this is all true - BUT as much time as a Mod spends on elaborate PMs if they borked the tags they would delete and resend ( send a revised PM etc)

My specific gripe is the color error. GO on and quote your own Role pm to yourself. It doesn't affect the color tag in any way. If Mahaloth were simply quoting her role PM then nothing should have happened to the color tag. But in her quote the color tag got messed up. How could that have happened with a simple copy/paste?

[lulz]

Originally Posted by LightFoot

it seems that lulz was protected and blocked- but you claim neither- I can't reconcile it.
You say that you know that lulz was not the NK target ( we had a NK so -obvious) how does that give any clue to your supposed role?

Investigative role? Custom role? Inventor (not an inventor, I didn't get anything)? Jack Of All Trades? The possibilities are endless. This is why I feel I'm the only person who's trying to figure out this game. Of all the possibilities out there you're claiming that you can't reconcile it. Gimme a break. This push on silver jan to claim is starting to look scummy.

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by lulz

Investigative role? Custom role? Inventor (not an inventor, I didn't get anything)? Jack Of All Trades? The possibilities are endless. This is why I feel I'm the only person who's trying to figure out this game. Of all the possibilities out there you're claiming that you can't reconcile it. Gimme a break. This push on silver jan to claim is starting to look scummy.

so your other visitor both protected and blocked you?
There is a role that can do that in some games................but............
is that what you are suggesting?