A Poll on Biden

[What Exit?]

6 categories should fit everyone in this case. Pretty simple Poll.

[Rat Diva]

I've had my money on him since the beginning of the beginning.

Purely because I've believed all along that he was the only democratic candidate who could win against Trump, not due to ideology.

[What Exit?]

I was leaning towards Sanders as I like him and he reminds me strongly of an old friend that has passed away. He was way more liberal than I was. Pretty much along the lines of Bernie. I didn't think Bernie could do any harm and I thought he had a good chance of beating Trump until I saw the youth vote fail to show up at the polls.

Biden was pretty far down my list of candidates. Sanders, Warren, Mayor Pete, Harris, Gillibrand & Bloomberg were all ahead of Biden on my list. But anyone but Trump (& Ted Cruz) has been my criteria the whole time.

He was never a serious candidate, but de Blasio would have been the only one hard to vote for for me.

[Ludovic]

Technically not my first choice because of Pete but he may have been second.

[PSXer]

I'm not voting because I'm a lazy apathetic millennial and I've never voted

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by PSXer

I'm not voting because I'm a lazy apathetic millennial and I've never voted

You're in a Swing State, North Carolina is in play this year. You should consider voting for Biden if for no other reason than to get Trump out. Your vote counts a hell of a lot more than mine. Odds of New Jersey going for Trump are close to zero I believe so slightly more likely than NY or California.

Also why play to the silly ass stereotype. Voting is pretty easy mostly, I know Republicans in some states are trying and succeeding at making it harder for African Americans but overall voting is easy. You could even request a mail in ballot if you like.

[Glazer]

I was all for Yang. I believe a UBI will be necessary at some point. We'll need universal health care first. But more and more people are going to find themselves permanently out of work as AI improves. I didn't think he had a chance in hell of winning. But his ideas need to get out there in the public discourse.

Early results of this poll show what's wrong with the Democratic Party. It's not very democratic. Candidates are chosen by favors and whose turn it is among the elite. Then shoved down the voters throat. And if you don't like it you're attacked harder that the opposition. If the Biden camp would go after Trump the way they do Bernie this election would be a cake walk.

[Glazer]

Originally Posted by What Exit?

You're in a Swing State, North Carolina is in play this year. You should consider voting for Biden if for no other reason than to get Trump out. Your vote counts a hell of a lot more than mine. Odds of New Jersey going for Trump are close to zero I believe so slightly more likely than NY or California.

Also why play to the silly ass stereotype. Voting is pretty easy mostly, I know Republicans in some states are trying and succeeding at making it harder for African Americans but overall voting is easy. You could even request a mail in ballot if you like.

If you are part of a society that votes, then do so. There may be no candidates and no measures you want to vote for ... but there are certain to be ones you want to vote against.

ROBERT A. HEINLEIN, The Notebooks of Lazarus Long

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by PSXer

I'm not voting because I'm a lazy apathetic millennial and I've never voted

This is not amusing; it is not ironic; it is not mature; it is not responsible. Not voting guarantees no change. Voting, as Glazer pointed out, not only can stop a bad person from regaining the WH, it is also an opportunity for change that you deny yourself and others by not doing your civic duty and voting.


Not voting is not cool.

I have 3 Millennial children and all of them vote. Actually 2 millennials and 1 whatever comes after them. Grow up.

[PSXer]

then they should have a candidate worth voting for. I'm not trying to be amusing or ironic. I'm just expressing a common disdain among young people that none of the candidates appeal to us

[Glazer]

So do like AOC and run.

[PSXer]

I'm idealistic and naive and I would not be a good candidate because I don't know how running for office or how to run things once you get elected actually work and I also have no charisma

[Sputnik]

Originally Posted by PSXer

then they should have a candidate worth voting for. I'm not trying to be amusing or ironic. I'm just expressing a common disdain among young people that none of the candidates appeal to us

Gotta be a quadruped to have appeal to a North Carolina voter. That might explain it.

I would have voted blue regardless. But I like Biden's chances the best.

[Larry Borgia]

Wanted Warren, will vote for Biden, even though my vote is pointless. The Green party occasionally defeats Republicans in DC.

[Sputnik]

Progressives who don't vote blue are buying another 4 years of trump. It's really that simple.

[Mr. Plumbean]

There are really only two options in this poll (for legal voters): Biden and Trump.

Anything that isn't a vote for Biden is a vote for Trump.

[Rock]

Right. When I vote I make a choice from the options that are available to me. I don't say "Well, neither of these options is exactly what I want so I'll let someone else decide."

[Random Precision]

My first choice would have been to be voting Clinton in for a second term. But I'll happily vote for Uncle Joe against Trump. I'll happily vote for a plate of cold french fries against Trump. And I'm in a solidly red state.

My vote will not affect the outcome of the race, but I take great satisfaction in knowing that it nullifies the vote of one of the knuckle dragging cousin fuckers in my county.

It's also good to remember that POTUS is not the only race being decided. Your vote for that might not have much weight, but your vote on the local races can be the deciding factor in who wins or loses.

And there's ALWAYS something you are going to want to vote against. Put your apathy in your back pocket for a day and cast a ballot.

[stormie]

What RandomPrecision said, except the Clinton part because I am not clever enough to think of it.

I thought Biden had been too silly to be a frontrunner.

When my sister registered to vote she went to a fire station. No idea why, that's just where the forms were before we moved to another town. I remember trotting over to my local fire station on the sunny afternoon of my birthday, bringing mirth to the firefighters who had no idea what I was thinking.

I've voted every election since then, even when it feels less socially beneficial than returning a library book. Elections, however problematic, are the basis of democracy. You'll hear me making retching noises where-ever "God Bless the USA" is foisted on my earholes, yet having a severe case of patriotism you will also have to keep your eyelids open with toothpicks if you get me started on constitutional democracy.

[Oxirane]

Originally Posted by Mr. Plumbean

There are really only two options in this poll (for legal voters): Biden and Trump.

Anything that isn't a vote for Biden is a vote for Trump.

Really? I live in NY State, a state that will overwhelmingly vote Name (D) regardless of the name...my vote is insignificant, I voted for the Libertarian last time, took me a minute to remember his name, Gary Johnson, as I could not in good conscious vote for either Clinton or Trump...and I knew it was a futile and stupid gesture on my part, but it's not like the outcome was in doubt in this state, so I would contend that your statement may be relevant in some places, but certainly isn't an absolute...

[stormie]

Ya, it's the same in overwhelmingly D and R states nationwide. But. It's the "what if everyone else of your party did the same thing" question. What if you just throw that one piece of trash on the beach because you can't find a trashcan? What if everyone else did the same? What if, seeing your trash influences someone else to throw one piece of trash? I know that's an elementary-school thing. But.

[Glazer]

Originally Posted by Oxirane

Really? I live in NY State, a state that will overwhelmingly vote Name (D) regardless of the name...my vote is insignificant, I voted for the Libertarian last time, took me a minute to remember his name, Gary Johnson, as I could not in good conscious vote for either Clinton or Trump...and I knew it was a futile and stupid gesture on my part, but it's not like the outcome was in doubt in this state, so I would contend that your statement may be relevant in some places, but certainly isn't an absolute...

Most Presidential elections I voted Libertarian. In Georgia the Republican was usually the slam dunk favorite. I never felt my vote was wasted. The larger the share the libertarians take the more of their ideas the other two parties will incorporate into their platform trying to lure in those votes.

Last time around I waited weeks before I hit the road till I could absentee vote for, well not for Clinton but against Trump.

[Simple Dog]

He was close to the bottom of my list, but I've gone through most of the stages already and will happily vote for him in November.

[Sputnik]

Originally Posted by Oxirane

Really? I live in NY State, a state that will overwhelmingly vote Name (D) regardless of the name...my vote is insignificant, I voted for the Libertarian last time, took me a minute to remember his name, Gary Johnson, as I could not in good conscious vote for either Clinton or Trump...and I knew it was a futile and stupid gesture on my part, but it's not like the outcome was in doubt in this state, so I would contend that your statement may be relevant in some places, but certainly isn't an absolute...

That's not true at all. If nothing else, your vote is part of the popular vote and the popular vote sends a message to the world regarding how much people dislike trump.

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by PSXer

then they should have a candidate worth voting for. I'm not trying to be amusing or ironic. I'm just expressing a common disdain among young people that none of the candidates appeal to us

Not doing anything will sure show us all. In exchange for democracy, you're asked to do a very few things: jury duty, vote, and stay informed. Seems a fair trade off.

I'm not going to bother with the "if you don't vote you can't whine about things". That ship has sailed.

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by Sputnik

That's not true at all. If nothing else, your vote is part of the popular vote and the popular vote sends a message to the world regarding how much people dislike trump.

In fairness, while I'm completely on board, there are a lot of us that would love to blowup both corrupt parties. It is just the Republicans have gotten so horrible (to be nice) now that I have to vote Dem out of the need for preserving the country. The moderate Republicans have been hounded out of office. The Rockefeller Republicans are functionally extinct.

I voted Green in 2000, (In NJ so no it didn't matter except to get the Green Party a ballot position in the future). I disliked Gore and hated his wife Tipper and Bush/Cheney was completely out, the idiot child and his evil puppetmaster finished me off as a Republican.

Now if the Al Gore we saw after the "loss" had run in 2000, I would have voted for him without question and probably campaigned for him. The idiot surrounded himself with experts that had him run a terrible campaign and barely spoke to the successes of the prior 8 years and to Green issues.

In 2000 I wanted McCain who was screwed over by Rove/Cheney or Bill Bradley who just didn't campaign well.

Somehow by 2008 McCain was so desperate to be President, that he was no longer McCain to me and he was up against one of the few candidates I genuinely really liked. I've only campaigned for 2 Presidents. Reagan in 1984 & Obama in 2008 & 2012.

[Mr. Plumbean]

Maintaining the fiction that "both sides" are equally horrible and awful normalizes Trump's thug autocracy and by doing so you are carrying his water.

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by Mr. Plumbean

Maintaining the fiction that "both sides" are equally horrible and awful normalizes Trump's thug autocracy and by doing so you are carrying his water.

Different people come to that conclusion at different points in their life. I wasn't there in 2000. Objectively there is plenty to dislike about the Dems and they also have plenty of Corporate overlords which is why many of our Youngest voters like Sanders & Warren.

But yes, it should be clear that Trump & Mitch McConnell are evil and far too many Republican office holders are cut from the same cloth these days. It should be time to realized the Dems and all their faults are a far superior choice to Trump.

Honestly yelling and berating the 3rd party voters or abstainers is not the best way to convince them. Patiently explain even past the point of your patience is probably the only way.

[Rat Diva]

Originally Posted by What Exit?

Honestly yelling and berating the 3rd party voters or abstainers is not the best way to convince them. Patiently explain even past the point of your patience is probably the only way.

I don't think you CAN convince them. I think it has to be a conclusion you come to on your own. I was a Republican up until McCain/Obama (voted McCain but Palin scared me into RINO territory). To me, it didn't really matter who was President because they were just a bunch of old white guys in suits until Obama, a youngish black man in a suit. The rhetoric just sailed past me. I didn't seriously think about it until some time in 2016 when it was looking like Holy Sweet Lou Piniella, Trump was probably going to become POTUS and we'd be fucked.

I switched parties in Dec 2016 and started doing what I could for candidates who didn't suck, and trying to keep Trumpkins out of office.

Besides that, psxer is a trolling waste of bandwidth and only got un-perma-boxed because Giraffe was dumb enough to make a wager with him.

[Oxirane]

Originally Posted by Sputnik

That's not true at all. If nothing else, your vote is part of the popular vote and the popular vote sends a message to the world regarding how much people dislike trump.

My vote is noise, not even a blip on the radar, Clinton won the popular vote as she won CA and NY overwhelmingly, and that mattered how much?

[Sputnik]

Then my good man, you're telling trump that you're fine with him and his crew of hooligans running the country. By not standing up to a bully, you allow his reign of terror to continue because you didn't oppose it. If everyone only voted when they thought their vote would be the deciding vote, we'd be screwed, without a kiss or dinner.

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by Sputnik

Then my good man, you're telling trump that you're fine with him and his crew of hooligans running the country. By not standing up to a bully, you allow his reign of terror to continue because you didn't oppose it. If everyone only voted when they thought their vote would be the deciding vote, we'd be screwed, without a kiss or dinner.

I don't think that's fair.

But the greater the votes for Biden, even in very solid Blue states, the bigger message it sends to Trump and the Republicans in general. In 2016 NY went 59.01% for HRC with a 68% turn out. Vast regions of NY were pink to red. Even eastern Long Island & Staten Island. A large turnout by Dems & anti-Trump voters would and could swing the NY state further blue.

[Mr. Plumbean]

It's hard to patiently explain anything to someone who won't stop shouting for like even one second to listen.

[babale]

Originally Posted by Rat Diva

Besides that, psxer is a trolling waste of bandwidth and only got un-perma-boxed because Giraffe was dumb enough to make a wager with him.

?

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by Mr. Plumbean

It's hard to patiently explain anything to someone who won't stop shouting for like even one second to listen.

That's true enough. My oldest friend, is still a Trump supporter. It is tough as hell.

[Rat Diva]

Originally Posted by babale

?

Linky.

[babale]

Originally Posted by Rat Diva

Linky.

I note he has since been permabanned from the SA forums :P

[Sputnik]

By Grace Sparks
Updated 7:55 PM ET, Wed April 22, 2020

Almost half of registered voters in Michigan (49%) plan to support Biden versus 41% who say they'll vote for Trump, the polls showed.

And the numbers are relatively similar in Pennsylvania, where Biden leads Trump by 8 percentage points, with 50% of registered voters planning to vote for the former vice president to 42% for Trump, according to the new Fox News polls.

Fox news polls? I wonder what Donnie thinks of this.

[silenus]

Another "Wanted Warren, will vote for Biden" here. Because I know he will appoint a lot of good people to try to erase the stain of Trump-ism from this country.

[Borborygmi]

Originally Posted by silenus

Because I know he will appoint a lot of good people to try to erase the stain of Trump-ism from this country.

Well, good luck to him finding replacements as thoughtful and qualified as these fine folks for his cabinet and senior advisors:



Seriously, though... I had been meaning to respond to this thread to provide the same rationale as silenus here. Biden was not among my top choices but now that he's the presumptive nominee I've done more than make peace with the idea and am actually excited about the prospect of losing the above faces and the rest of the iceberg that they are the tip of, and their replacement with knowledgeable and decent public servants.

[Sputnik]

More polls, these are reported by CNN today.

Updated 10:10 AM ET, Thu April 23, 2020

Florida: Presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden led Trump by six points in a University of North Florida poll and four points in a Quinnipiac University poll.

Michigan: Biden was up by eight points in a Fox News poll compared to the prior polling average of probability polls that had him up five points.

Pennsylvania: Biden held an eight-point advantage in a Fox News poll,

Wisconsin: Biden was ahead by three points in a Marquette University Law School poll.

[What Exit?]

You beat me to it:

Race/Topic	Poll	Results	Spread
Florida: Trump vs. Biden	Quinnipiac	Biden 46, Trump 42	Biden +4
Pennsylvania: Trump vs. Biden	FOX News	Biden 50, Trump 42	Biden +8
Michigan: Trump vs. Biden	FOX News	Biden 49, Trump 41	Biden +8
General Election: Trump vs. Biden	Economist/YouGov	Biden 48, Trump 42	Biden +6
Michigan Senate - James vs. Peters	FOX News	Peters 46, James 36	Peters +10
President Trump Job Approval	Economist/YouGov	Approve 46, Disapprove 51	Disapprove +5
President Trump Job Approval	Rasmussen Reports	Approve 44, Disapprove 55	Disapprove +11
President Trump Job Approval	Reuters/Ipsos	Approve 43, Disapprove 54	Disapprove +11
President Trump Job Approval	Politico/Morning Consult	Approve 44, Disapprove 51	Disapprove +7

Bonus is a Dem Senate Candidate is well ahead in Michigan.

[What Exit?]

Another good news poll. From Fox News, Biden 46 Trump 43 in Florida. Biden has really pulled ahead in the most important swing state. Florida and almost any other swing state gets Biden elected by the Electoral College.

Please let this momentum keep growing.

[ThisSpaceForRent]

Biden certainly was NOT my first or even second choice, but to get the Orange Buffoon out of office the democratic party MUST totally align behind the ticket.

My opinion of Joe is that he bumbles too much and sometimes does not seem to grasp the issues.

IMHO his best choice for VP is Warren. She is more than qualified and quite intelligent.

As a side plus, she is for national repeal of the marijuana prohibition.

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by Mr. Plumbean

Maintaining the fiction that "both sides" are equally horrible and awful normalizes Trump's thug autocracy and by doing so you are carrying his water.

This.

Originally Posted by What Exit?

Different people come to that conclusion at different points in their life. [snip]
Honestly yelling and berating the 3rd party voters or abstainers is not the best way to convince them. Patiently explain even past the point of your patience is probably the only way.

Yes, most people finally realize that compromise and SOME progress is better than no purity and no progress aka sliding backwards.
IME, the ones doing the yelling have no brain space to stop and listen to those who disagree; this hold true for all political leanings, at least among those who can civilly discuss issues (this cuts out a huge number of people).

Let's talk about all that yelling. In my adult life online, I've been called a corporate sellout; a "soccer mom"(not a compliment); a "whore for Hillary"; someone who (apparently) doesn't care about <fill in the blank: the earth, PoC, WoC, disadvantaged children, disabled anybody, the homeless and more>, all because I dare to be a moderate Democrat who realizes that all effective politics is compromise and that some (if not most) difficult decisions have no outcome that will help or please everyone. IOW, a realist.

It was Dems who have advanced the improvements in the human condition in the last century. Is it too slow and not effective as we would like? Absolutely.

Originally Posted by Mr. Plumbean

It's hard to patiently explain anything to someone who won't stop shouting for like even one second to listen.

IMO, all this starts way before anyone has their own political awakening (and NOT one superimposed upon them by parents who think it is "cute" to involve their children in posting rude things about anyone in public life (and I include Trump in this). It's not the rude things about that Orange Monster I deplore; it is the exploitation of the children that irks me, but I digress.

Anyway, critical thinking skills are vital and too often not learned via school or at home. NOT simply reading and absorbing material that confirms your bias, especially not crazy, BS "media reports" that exaggerate details in accounts, when they're not simply making shit up to the detriment of the candidate or elected official because you don't care for them is apparently too much for many people. And as we have seen, a concerted effort, covering decades, taints anyone. Swift-boating is the new politics and it's a disgrace.

The wonder of the Trump administration is that all the horrid things said about them are factually true.They really are as horrible as they are portrayed, if not a whole lot worse due to us not knowing about all the other illegalities and chicanery as of yet. There is no bottom. I used to think their goal was the deconstruction of the Great Society and the New Deal, but it's far worse: they want to destroy our democracy and method of governance. When will they be charged with sedition? McConnell is openly calling for the states to go bankrupt. Barr is shredding the Constitution daily, and Trump, their court-jester in chief, is driving the clown car.

Biden isn't my first choice. IMO, we shouldn't even be here, except for misogyny and racism and sheer stupidity, but looking back to 2016 is useless except for lessons learned. Biden knows he is not most people's first choice, and I think he's fine with that. It's his Cabinet and his VP that matter.

We already know Joe will do the right thing, as best he can, for the country. What we need to do is give him a deep bench: elect Dems all the way down the ticket (for the pedantic here, of course with the exception of exceptionally bad local Dem candidates, and even then, if they're up against a GOP, forget it—vote blue).
I used to actually seriously look at GOP candidates (at the local/state level); I will never vote for a GOP candidate again in my life time. I will crawl over blood-soaked, COVID-19 contaminated, broken glass to elect Joe Biden. I love my country and I do not have the arrogance or the perverted sense of privilege (often by those who have the most to lose) to think that "things will work out" or "it's just politics; they're all the same" or "Dems are as bad as the GOP" etc.

I find none of this amusing. I find none of it enjoyable, but then existential threats rarely are except in movies where we all know it's fake and will end in 120 minutes. YMMV.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Biden or Bleach, 2020!

[Metal Years]

Originally Posted by ThisSpaceForRent

Biden certainly was NOT my first or even second choice, but to get the Orange Buffoon out of office the democratic party MUST totally align behind the ticket.



IMHO his best choice for VP is Warren. She is more than qualified and quite intelligent.

As a side plus, she is for national repeal of the marijuana prohibition.

+1

I'm going to try and get excited about J-Bide. Of course I'll vote for him. I don't think I know anybody with an opinion who wants cannabis to remain illegal. Why hasn't Biden gotten with the program on that?

[Metal Years]

Originally Posted by PSXer

then they should have a candidate worth voting for. I'm not trying to be amusing or ironic. I'm just expressing a common disdain among young people that none of the candidates appeal to us

I'm not a huge Joe Biden fan, even though I'm going to cheerfully vote for him.
There is something very worth voting for. And that's AGAINST DONNY T-RUMP! You live in a state where your vote could make a difference. It's not hard to get registered and vote.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/dl.ncsbe.go...egForm_06W.pdf

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Biden was about #8 or so in my preferences in the Democratic field. But this year's election will not be easy, despite the fact that the President is suggesting that people look into "injecting disinfectant" and then the next day claiming he was being sarcastic

I think Biden's not a good candidate and not a good person, but I'll be out there donating to his campaign and making calls or texts for him, because we've seen what will happen if he loses.

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by Flying Squid with Goggles

...
I think Biden's not a good candidate and not a good person, but I'll be out there donating to his campaign and making calls or texts for him, because we've seen what will happen if he loses.

I think on the scale of major politicians being good people with Jimmy Carter being a 10 and Dick Cheney being a 0, Biden probably scores high, maybe even an 8. His support for John McCain & his family as McCain was dying really seemed legit. There have been loads of other things along the years that do make him seem like a nice person for a politician. I figure Trump is maybe a .1 or .2 on this scale. But Biden comes off as a nicer person than either Clinton and about on par with Obama and Papa Bush. Nixon was probably a .2 and Johnson a 2 or 3. Reagan maybe a 4 or 5, Nancy lower.

Thing is nice guys don't really mean they'll make good Presidents, though being really bad people makes for bad Presidents and even Nixon did a fair amount of good along with his bad stuff. Cheney & Trump, almost nothing positive for the country.

Clinton was not a very good person, his Presidency was excellent.