Vegas Mafia Day Five

[Eristic Widgeon]

Wake up, sleepyheads! Grab the stimulant of your choice and get down to the gaming floor to place your bets! The excitement is mounting and...oh no! Looks like the excitement was a bit too much for someone. Those jagged, gaping wounds probably didn't help either. Is there a doctor in the house? Uh oh...

LightFoot is dead.

Welcome to the game, you are Town Doc. Each Night, you may target a player other than yourself and protect them from all killing powers. You may not target the same player on two consecutive Nights. You win when all anti-Town forces have been eliminated.

Day will end at 2 pm Chicago time on Friday, July 15. Double down, players!

[LightFoot]

I saw that coming.avenge me

[guiri]

Well played Lightfoot!

[guiri]

Alive
SilverjanAskThePizzaGuy
Guiri
Colby11
Meeko - claimed VT
TexCat
Bashorian Clement

Dead
D1- Gnarlycharlie- town semi-paranoid cop
N1- Precambrianmollusc- vanilla town
N1- Vanta Black- town hider
D2- Kaiveran- scum role cop
N2- Archangel- vanilla town
D3- Mahaloth- vanilla town
D4- Mordenkainen - vanilla town
N4- Lightfoot- town doc

D4 Final Vote Count
Mordenkainen (5): guiri (5), LightFoot (6), Meeko (9), Askthepizzaguy (60), Colby11 (149)
Bashorian Clement (1): TexCat (141)
Meeko (1): Mordenkainen (142)

Not Voting (1): Bashorian Clement

Day 3 Final Vote Count
Mordenkainen (3): Meeko (7), guiri (13)[23], Colby11 (41), Bashorian Clement (47)[48], guiri (53)[70], Bashorian Clement (62)
Mahaloth (3): TexCat (29), Bashorian Clement (48)[62], guiri (70), Mordenkainen (71)
Extend Day (1): Colby11 (21)[32], guiri (23)[52], Mahaloth (24)
Bashorian Clement (1): LightFoot (49)
Lightfoot (0): Mordenkainen (64)[71]

Not Voting (1): Silverjan

Day 2 Final Vote Count
Kaiveran (6): guiri (4), Meeko (23), Bashorian Clement (93), TexCat (158), Archangel (182), Mordenkainen (184)[204](204)
Bashorian Clement (2): Mahaloth (165), Silverjan (194)
Texcat (1): Mahaloth (58)[122], Mahaloth (122)[165], LightFoot (124), Archangel (161)[170]
Meeko (1): Kaiveran (156)
Guiri (0): Kaiveran (36)[140]
Mahaloth (0): Archangel (145)[161], TexCat (158)[158], Archangel (170)[182]

Not voting (1): Colby11

Day 1 Final Vote Count
Texcat (4): guiri (113)[239], Mahaloth (118), Mordenkainen (189), Vanta Black (227), gnarlycharlie (240)
Gnarlycharlie (4): Silverjan (136), Archangel (209), TexCat (237), guiri (239)
Vanta Black (2): Colby11 (72), LightFoot (114), Archangel (148)[190]
Archangel (1): guiri (23)[40], Meeko (100), Vanta Black (108)[187]
Guiri (1): gnarlycharlie (13)[240], Precambrianmollusc (151)
Precambrianmollusc (0): Archangel (89)[148]
Mahaloth (0): Colby11 (28)[28], TexCat (35)[237], Meeko (45)[75]
Meeko (0): Vanta Black (37)[108]

Not voting (2): Kaiveran, Bashorian Clement

[guiri]

There’s no hammer or locked votes but can I request that TexCat, Bashorian and Colby make their cases and vote early toDay?

[Pepperoni]

Originally Posted by Meeko Do not understand why there is conversation above any beyond Kai. Why there are votes elsewhere. Period. Full Stop. FOS on all of that. Originally Posted by Kaiveran I think it's pretty clear that from my wagon, I (regrettably) prefer Meeko over BC. As to narrowing down the other pool....I trust Archangel, and thus put some stock in her TexCat read. Light foot is probably okay because of their independence. And I still think Silverjan was the most pure of the charlie voters and has generally pinged me town. That leaves Colby and Morden. Meeko, Colby, Morden. Is it that simple? I hope to fuck it's that simple. Originally Posted by Kaiveran That;s as far as I go for now. Tag me near EoD and I'll see what compromises to be made, if any. This post by Meeko directly and this accusation and vote by Kaiveran in response, after the discussion of Vanta's crumb and how Kaiveran was likely mechanically outed (to a degree of beyond reasonable doubt) Creates the dynamic where an outed wolf should not be voting for a non-outed wolf, so Kaiveran's push should have been against one of their own accusers who were town. In plain english, Kai bussing a partner Meeko after Meeko decided to bus Kai following Guiri's push, does nothing to keep Kai alive on subsequent rounds, it just kills additional wolves. Because that's strategic suicide, it can only be a blunder of that magnitude or Meeko is town. And because Kaiveran appears to play at or above a certain level of play, there's no way Kai would have approved a blunder of that magnitude, let alone chose to pull the trigger on it. That's one of the few things I state explicitly that mafia should never do, because it literally does not help. It's a bluff that, when called, hangs 2 wolves for the price of one, and still doesn't make the remaining wolf look good. And it's not needed, because Meeko would look good for being early on the bussing effort. So there's no additional credit given. The prize sucks because it doesn't save either wolf and the reason to gamble it doesn't exist.

In short, reading the game with Meeko's posts visible and the dead towns not, this is sufficient for Meeko to be approximately as lock clear as Guiri.

That's two, and it wasn't even a bad read. I overestimated how much it would hurt my vision. (There's a lot of text formatting in your posts Meeko)

It really only took halfway through day 2 to get it, so anyone with 20 minutes of time can verify this. Most of the long posts remaining would just be Meeko and Kaiveran's anyway, and those are the two people you're comparing for the sake of clearing or condemning Meeko.

[Askthepizzaguy]

That's me, meant to post that as my main, but there's no quick alt change function on this board. I use that to do analysis, meaning, put "myself" on ignore mode to save me scrolling and so I don't forget to un-ignore people in the game during or after play on my main. Pardon me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Originally Posted by LightFoot

You are clear in my eyes.so no need to include you in my list

This post mechnanically clears Guiri. In English, Lightfoot knew Guiri was town as soon as her protection worked, because the scums can't even holster (not that they would) their kill is randomized even if it is not sent, according to the game host. So a missing kill means a protection from a scum attack, and that clears the target.

More elaboration, (skippable):

Guiri was the obvious shot because Guiri topposted every day, yeeted the scum role cop, and has thread control and credibility, and Archangel and Vanta were already dead and they are the other people who tend to do that and have that. Shooting outside of Guiri would mean trying to find an additional town power role in a setup that flipped 2 of them for town in a small vanilla heavy game. The odds Guiri (as town) gets shot there are astronomical. Lightfoot had almost no cover whatsoever last night because Jan was inactive on the night I would have been able to pretend to be cover for the doc. Meeko claimed VT, TexCat all but did with her reaction to the cop dying, Guiri cant self protect, and there should be two mafia still in play versus the multiple investigative roles, reducing cover even further, and Mordenkainen even before he died claimed VT a while back. Without Meeko or TexCat or Guiri or Jan as cover, the pool of potential docs is reduced to Colby, BC, or Lightfoot. Whenever any of those are a mafioso, that means the doc cover is reduced even further. In the event there is cover, any shot against any player not named Lightfoot or Guiri would reduce the remaining suspect pool by 1 and keep 2 lock clears alive. It literally did not matter if Lightfoot was successful in protecting them. If they were shooting Lightfoot anyway, nothing said there matters, especially not by me. If they were not, thinking someone else might be protected and that it would give town an additional yeet, could prompt them to shoot Guiri again, or choose a suboptimal kill that leaves 2 mech clear towns alive.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza
Guiri
Meeko

assuming there are no third parties in play, I need one more townie.
assuming there were third party hostiles in play, that faction wins by townsiding because there's a mech clear who hasn't been playing at all like a 3p hostile, so they're automatically not the murder target tonight ever as long as they pretend to be town.

Because both universes are played the exact same way, I can consolidate them and assume both are true at the same time, and it doesn't matter which is.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Colby/Cat
Colby/Clement
Cat/Clement

Multi isoing each with Kai. This will take concentration and most of this day phase because I will be interrupted a lot.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I believe it's correct to vote for a scum candidate today instead of No Yeet. So my advice is to proceed as if it were an odd numbered phase.

We do not No Yeet at 6 in this scenario, because it just kills the mech clear player. Because there is a mech clear player, there shouldn't be a tie today with 4 town alive, so there is no upside to making it odd numbers again and a severe downside.

[guiri]

I agree, best to aim for scum toDay.

Hoping TexCat, Bashorian and Colby pop in soon and can help show which of them are actually Town and want to help win this game. Colby has 27 posts in 4 cycles, TexCat 31.

[Colby11]

Obviously, it’s down to me, Texcat, and BC. Obviously I’m not going to vote for myself, so I’ll focus on Texcat and BC. Texcat I don’t have a read on, and BC had a (in my opinion) a funky D3 interaction with Guiri where BC said I was town.

With 2 scum left though, we need to examine all options…

Hopefully I’ll post more when A- I have time, and B- when I don’t fall asleep at 9pm….

[Meeko]

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

That's me, meant to post that as my main, but there's no quick alt change function on this board. I use that to do analysis, meaning, put "myself" on ignore mode to save me scrolling and so I don't forget to un-ignore people in the game during or after play on my main. Pardon me.

I figured as much.

Not like I can condemn it, what with my 3 avatar changes this game, and also having Mendie proper pop in for two seconds as well.


Straight up. I have no leads. More correctly stated, im barely involved in this game at this point.

Pizza did you want to ask me anything directly? Or are you content with what you have?

(You aren't wrong.)

[Askthepizzaguy]

Originally Posted by Meeko

Pizza did you want to ask me anything directly? Or are you content with what you have?

(You aren't wrong.)

Questions like how your processes formed this game, what your thoughts and guesses were, are more the sorts of questions for if I considered you a suspect. They don't really help me sort you and they don't help me sort anyone else. You're already sorted.

Questions like who you think are guilty, what are your thoughts on this post or this particular player, make sense as questions even to a fellow town, but if you're not sure what your suspects are, who your townies are, it's best for you to form them with the time you have.

If RL is just kicking your butt, probably allow Guiri to be a double voter this round. It ensures you're not splitting your vote from a fellow townie.

That's the no-stress no-time version of helping town.

That's largely what I am doing, the attempt to narrow it down by thoroughly checking each viable pair remaining with the dead scummo is purely an attempt to help Guiri solve by offering my perspective and experience. If at the end of the day we disagree, that's just what happens and I can't not vote with him.

So I am already going to do that, but I have suspects and townies and am working the problem. If you want to tag along with Guiri it does ensure he can outvote the scums, and it requires no effort on your part.

If you have the time, desire, and effort, go ahead and work the problem along with me by deciding which person most makes sense as being Kaiveran's partner, followed by telling everyone why.

How I do it is I put the dead townies on ignore mode temporarily and reread the game. With those posts gone, all that remains is your own posts and all remaining suspects and the one dead scum.

It makes it much easier to analyze the game with the benefit of today's hindsight, less time and scrolling involved. Your eyes only look at stuff that's even relevant.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Originally Posted by Colby11

Obviously, it’s down to me, Texcat, and BC. Obviously I’m not going to vote for myself, so I’ll focus on Texcat and BC. Texcat I don’t have a read on, and BC had a (in my opinion) a funky D3 interaction with Guiri where BC said I was town.

This much is true. I would like to know what made you decide I was safely town, because it is not stated in this post and I don't remember you having a strong opinion on Jan.

Checking...

Originally Posted by Colby11 I think right now is probably the last that I’m going to be on til after EOD… so if I had to make a pick about who is scum, I would shoot into this pool SilverJan- avoiding the Kai case Texcat- EOD D1 Mahaloth- his claim plus his votes D2 Mordankainen- D2 votes But any case I can come with does have some question marks… right now I think the best vote is to

AFAICT this was your most recent opinion on Jan slot, back near EOD3. Yesterday seemed to kick your butt,

Your progression on BC went from understanding his playstyle more and not finding it suspicious to concurring with Guiri that his progression on finding you town was not explained.

So I can track why BC became a suspect, I just need to know when you changed your mind on Jan/me (meaning, what post number on which day, abouts) and importantly, why.

Unless it was a brain fart, which is entertaining. I'd like to think I am difficult to forget.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The non-quotewall version of my multi isoing of Kaiveran, Colby, TexCat, and Bashorian Clement

D1 Colby joke voted Maha on page one. Later votes Vanta because Vanta said he was pacing himself. And that's about it from Colby d1. TexCat pushed Mahaloth and voted there and appeared to believe that Mahaloth would flip scum. Bashorian asked questions that were not followed up on. TexCat does mention BC as a suspect but iirc the votes just were not there to make that happen at EOD, so she went with gnarly to self preserve. During this time Kaiveran was not under pressure so there was nothing for a partner to be concerned with. D2 Post 6 of D2 TexCat arrived at Vanta hiding behind Kai as the reason for death. Post 8 concedes it could have happened by hiding behind Precambrianmollusc. Kaiveran attempts to steer discussion toward whoever went after gnarly, those names being Silverjan, Guiri, and TexCat, and the deceased town Archangel. This is after mechanical reasons to suspect Kai have been brought up, so there can be elements of anti-spew expected here. Then puts suspects in this order: Mordenkainen Silverjan Archangel TexCat guiri 4-5 of those names are town. Kaiveran later names Meeko as a suspect. Colby mentions how busy RL is, begins questioning TexCat and Bashorian Clement. Tinfoils Guiri for being "a talkative pizzaguy controlling the narrative". Kaiveran replies to Guiri, Meeko, Jan, and Lightfoot. Asks Colby and Mahaloth to elaborate on their reads more. TexCat responds to colby about her town reads on Vanta and Guiri from d1. BC votes Kaiveran noting the mechanical reason to vote there, plus unspecified bad feelings. Notes Meeko suspects Kai and, while town reading Meeko, wonders if it's a good idea to follow meeko into Kai. (95 and 96 of d2.) BC clears Meeko and Guiri. BC asks why there were not three kills, and cites the potential of third parties to not mark down people as not w/w (because, it could be a third party hostile on a different faction). TexCat discusses that Kai was unlikely to be thought of as a NK target, and asks why people are voting her. BC discusses the mechanics of the night actions for a bit, all this logic checks out. Kaiveran is frustrated and responds to Guiri at length, unvotes Guiri. In 143 names BC as a potentially wolfy person, but then doubles back and says significant improvement. Comment on TexCat is simply that she's unlikely to be aligned with Mord. Kai suggests Colby is in their blind spot. Tries to pocket Archangel at length, and then tries to bury Meeko. Responds to BC and continues to call him town. Suggests BC is definitely town here. Kai continues snuggling Archangel and suggests Guiri is town now, then suggests the scum team is Meeko, Colby, and Mordenkainen. TexCat votes mahaloth and in the same post unvotes and votes Kaiveran. Colby catching up with everything that went down thusfar here. After a while, with Kaiveran still trying to reach Archangel and Morden to change their vote, Kai goes down. D3 Colby answers some questions and puts BC as more of a town read. Votes to extend day because it's the weekend and the day has started very slowly. TexCat clears Guiri and Meeko, and puts BC up near that grouping. Accuses Lightfoot and Mahaloth. Colby puts Guiri and Meeko as town, and after the game host extends day, unvotes "extend day". Colby mulls whether the wagon movement D1 was intended to save TexCat. TexCat says Kai, Lightfoot, and Mahaloth are the team, doesn't rule out Mordenkainen. Colby suspects Silverjan, Mahaloth, TexCat, and Mord as a pool, not in any particular order. Votes Mordenkainen. Bashorian goes along and also votes Mordenkainen, then switches to Mahaloth to create a counterwagon. After Mordenkainen claims VT, Bash votes Mord. Mahaloth hangs regardless. D4 TexCat goes to reread after Mahaloth flips town, and drops pursuit of Lightfoot as a suspect without townreading there. BC tinfoils Guiri, says Meeko and Colby are town, suspects/nulls Silverjan. Guiri questions BC over why Colby is town, BC confirms this is his current stance here, doesn't remember why he's town based on voting. Colby suggests ties are suspicious here, but there's no names attached. This bit by BC seems to back off that Colby was town based on voting, and puts him more null/town. BC gets frustrated with his townread on Colby being questioned and walks off. (92-94) TexCat is the lone BC voter that day, a bit later on, with town leans on mordenkainen, Meeko, Guiri, and a town lean on Colby, and decides LF is too scummy to be scum. Colby votes for Mord but cites the large wagon as reason to have pause.

1) Kai and the others:

Of these three, Kai "suspected" TexCat in a cluster after the potential of being mechanically outed was brought up by multiple players. TexCat's reasoning on Kaiveran remains straightforward the entire round, and a topic of discussion even though she has other targets. Kaiveran suggests Tex is not mord's partner, doesn't elaborate on further suspicions here. While Kai floats Tex's name, doesn't push it, and TexCat is on target with suspicion the entire round. Bashorian votes Kai for solid reasons somewhere near midday, combined with questionable reasons and motivations, while Kai "suspects" BC and then says he's more and more townie for reasons I do not follow. Colby and Kai are neutral on one another. Near the end, directly accuses Colby in a cluster of other names on no reasons given. Colby on the other hand is barely aware of the case against Kai, has one post discussing the crumb, but doesn't connect the dots enough to vote there.

2) "The others" and the others:

Colby townreads BC until he doesn't, suspects TexCat without elaborating or pushing. TexCat suspects BC, leans town on Colby. Bashorian doesn't discuss TexCat and reads Colby town for reasons he cannot explain fully because he doesn't remember. I have been unable to get a leans list or questions answered by either Bashorian or Colby, even though I have asked and even tagged them. I have been able to track TexCat's thought process throughout the game. Anomalous processes that pinged me are Bashorian's read on Colby, unexplained progression on myself and Bashorian by Colby today, and Bashorian deciding that it's not a good idea to follow his own town read Meeko onto Kaiveran even after the mechanic discussion and voting Kai. I don't follow any of that. Meeko's opinion (or alignment) shouldn't matter if you think Vanta found a scum, and there's multiple posts indicating that was BC's main theory at the time. It shouldn't lead to an unvote especially after suggesting Meeko is town. So of the two of them, if I squint really hard, I could see Colby being not particularly helpful in describing how his reads are forming or progressing, but due to flips and the POE shrinking, has changed reads on two of the remaining players. But it's not really apparent that's what happened. It'd be helpful if that's what I was told, so I can then question it further and try to walk that path again and see if I can make it make sense. More difficult is walking BC's path of seeing Kai is mechanically suspect, town reading Meeko, deciding it's risky to follow Meeko onto Kai, deciding Colby is town due to voting similarly to himself, and when questioned, pushed him down to null and got upset and walked off. That's a path I cannot follow in my own footsteps, so I need help walking that walk.

Folks have a couple of days to read and respond.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Splitting this off into a new post for readability:

In the meantime, since I am awake, active, and have a free moment, I will walk everyone through my game.

I came into the game with the previous day being a wagon on Kaiveran, who was mechanically outed more or less by Vanta Black. Mordenkainen was a suspect of almost everyone with an opinion, with some exceptions. I looked, and I noted some scumtells I have caught myriad scums using, and felt there was bussing on that wagon.

I read the dead, I read the dead scum, I cleared a few people based off of those interactions or soft cleared them, including Meeko and Guiri and Lightfoot, because of Kai's interactions with them and how they behaved toward Kaiveran. Additionally, I analyzed the prospect of hostile third parties, and removed several names from that list because they had not been playing as hostile third parties do, since 3p have fewer "hit points" than the town team, they actually have to care to avoid being murdered.

I specifically named Colby and TexCat and Guiri as people who didn't fit the bill, because of TexCat and Guiri's pushing of several suspects, and Colby pushing to extend day over the weekend, while activity was low and he wasn't under much suspicion. Mafia and hostile to town alike generally prefer to let the rounds end normally and die with little progress, and Colby also accused four people and voted to actually kill someone, coming close to making it happen. Whether Colby Tex or Guiri are town or mafia, those behaviors do not scream third party. After some more mulling I also decided it was unlikely we were dealing with third parties anyway.

On Mord just accepting his fate and flipping, while doing his job and making some accusations, there wasn't much chance to actually interact with Mordenkainen and change minds.

Today, I'm presenting my findings from my diving of the game, just now, and I will also +1 this request:

Originally Posted by guiri There’s no hammer or locked votes but can I request that TexCat, Bashorian and Colby make their cases and vote early toDay?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I may not be able to sleep until I ask this:

@TexCat

Can you pinpoint specifically where and why Bashorian Clement went from being a town read of yours to your vote?

I just spent too many hours reading and being interrupted with these isos, and there's no quote in the wall on it that I can easily find.

That's the only question I have regarding your reads and processes that I can think of right now, before sleeping.

I have outstanding questions posed to both Colby and BC right now still unanswered, btw.

[guiri]

I'm here pizza, sending energy and good vibes. Waiting for @Colby11, @TexCat and @Bashorian Clement to share their thoughts before I vote.

[TexCat]

Originally Posted by guiri

I agree, best to aim for scum toDay.

Hoping TexCat, Bashorian and Colby pop in soon and can help show which of them are actually Town and want to help win this game. Colby has 27 posts in 4 cycles, TexCat 31.

Originally Posted by Colby11

Obviously, it’s down to me, Texcat, and BC. Obviously I’m not going to vote for myself, so I’ll focus on Texcat and BC. Texcat I don’t have a read on, and BC had a (in my opinion) a funky D3 interaction with Guiri where BC said I was town.

With 2 scum left though, we need to examine all options…

Hopefully I’ll post more when A- I have time, and B- when I don’t fall asleep at 9pm….

When and why did Pizza go into the non-scum column? And while I agree we should look for scum, let's not forget that Meeko and Guiri, even with his clear from LF, are only clear in my eyes of being non-scum. They are not necessarily town.

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

I may not be able to sleep until I ask this:

@TexCat

Can you pinpoint specifically where and why Bashorian Clement went from being a town read of yours to your vote?

I just spent too many hours reading and being interrupted with these isos, and there's no quote in the wall on it that I can easily find.

That's the only question I have regarding your reads and processes that I can think of right now, before sleeping.

I have outstanding questions posed to both Colby and BC right now still unanswered, btw.

My gut scum reads on D1 were Mahaloth and BC. After BC was on the Kai wagon, he got closer to townish for me. But at the end of yesterday, my vote was not going to affect the results. I didn't want to vote Mord. My choices came down to you, LF, and BC. I was not happy with BC's walking off at the EOD and voted there.

[TexCat]

I still think BC is my top choice with Lightfoot being a close second.

[Meeko]

Originally Posted by Pepperoni

(There's a lot of text formatting in your posts Meeko)

It will take a few Posts for Mendie to find her feet. But ince she does. Resisting an urge to line break here. Mendie will probably cycle through a few of Meeko's favorite formats, I can't change the mind the sock is attached to. I do things a certain way. They can be bettered. If they were changed completely, you all wouldn't like it, and I wouldn't want to play under it. Oh my god this is so pedestrian. It's like that one episode of Spongebob where sponge goes normal for like a week. And squidward has no idea what to do, he ends up going through all the feels to ascertain how to treat a normal Spongebob.

1. Emergency Rebos
2. I think Mendie is probably going to try for a numbered outline style.
2.1 Should I outfit her with a shock collar. To be used, only if she gets out of line?
2.2 Dammit, I can't even be halfway (quarterway? ?!) Serious with the rationale for my new Sock, without the puns finding me.

3. Hi, Opal.


----


Do we know if Pizza is town? It's all too easy to follow and have my vote shadow Guiri but if Pizza is Wolf, i see that as Pizza controlling all 3 of our votes then.

[Meeko]

NETA:

Great. I crawl back into the game, only to Neta, immediately.

Ince is probably an attempt at "if and when
"

Suffice to say I've held off on trying a few things in games. I think having Mendie use them first, solves two problems.

[Colby11]

Ok let’s talk about my top two town leans

Meeko- I feel like she is town. I don’t have any real reason except that she has had a hard couple of weeks, and she seems genuinely frustrated. That plus the lack of enthusiasm kinda pegs me in the town realm.

Guiri- definitely the most talkative of the bunch. The only thing keeping me from having him as lock town is the fact that he was around EOD Day 1 and 3, when we had shenanigans with ties.

I’ll go over the other 3 momentarily.

[Colby11]

Originally Posted by TexCat

I still think BC is my top choice with Lightfoot being a close second.

Ummm… did someone not read the opening line?

[Meeko]

God I hate this. I really do.

Please don't take it personally, Colby

Originally Posted by Colby11

Meeko- I feel like she is town. I don’t have any real reason except that she has had a hard couple of weeks, and she seems genuinely frustrated. That plus the lack of enthusiasm kinda pegs me in the town realm.

I'm not sure how to respond here.

It was my intention to test out she / her along with my Mendie sock account in the next game. I mean, I'm not calling anyone out on it. And, the upshot is, it does give me .... different feels here. Like, a feeling that I wouldn't have expected to feel. Not sure if that is good or bad. .... And taking a few moments here before I compose these next lines. As I've said before, you all are the only group of people that I am per se out to. Just. Seeing Meeko with those pronouns, I'm not sure if I can ever find words. [[I guess the answer to the above gets demoted to a bad feeling.]] There is, just, the ever so slightest amount of give to my gender. It does not want to be held fast to Cis Male. It just doesn't. Just before coming back in to the game here, I had pulled up the GenderWiki ((yet again, again)) to see if stating that I am AMAB over that I am CisMale has the nuance that I am looking for. Like, and I hate to trivialize others here, but I feel that, to me, AMAB admits to a rounding error that moves the thing questioned "up" into CisMale. That, every now and then, there is a blink and you miss it, amount of Femininity to me. The moments, collected over years, along with the shadows* they cast, which remain, I am forced to conclude that it is a "Real" thing, and that I do indeed have those rare flash moments. I think all of my, looking at it, magnifies it, and unjustly inflates it. *Despite the entire movement, moment, and subculture that is (Was) " Brony " I personally consider my liking of My Little Pony to be a "shadow" here. I would like to think, that even if Bronies didn't happen, as a subculture, that I would still have found the show, and it would have become more of a guilty pleasure than it is now. I have similar ideas about Mikes Hard Lemonade, Origami, and not ever, ever wanting to have to deal with a full payload in back of a pick-up truck.

It gets more confusing ::

And, if you really, really want to get into the weeds here, Mendie considers Meeko to be a deadname. But that's like, that's miles beyond what I am asking anyone to follow. If you are confused, just know that I am, as well, and well, for the most part, I am piloting this thing, right?

-----
-----

I don’t have any real reason except that has had a hard couple of weeks, and she seems genuinely frustrated. That plus the lack of enthusiasm kinda pegs me in the town realm.


Not sure where we left off on this, That, Thursday two weeks ago was the worst day at work in 5 years,

The Thursday after that? None other than the CEO comes into my store, and down my cash register line. I made a full transaction with the CEO.

Who was completely disguised, and made no effort at all to reveal himself.

While I basically, essentially didn't do anything that I was supposed to do / ask customers.

Legit, if something happens to me on the 14th, I am taking the 21 off.


I feel like I already shared this. But, I mean, I think it's obvious Im not running on all eight cylinders.

[[Some would say I never was, but, well, give me this one, folks. please.]]

[guiri]

Bolding added.

Originally Posted by TexCat

I still think BC is my top choice with Lightfoot being a close second.

I guess this could be a brain fart, derp-clear attempt, or simply not following along and missing the Doc reveal at SoD however this is also inconsistent:

Originally Posted by TexCat

When and why did Pizza go into the non-scum column? And while I agree we should look for scum, let's not forget that Meeko and Guiri, even with his clear from LF, are only clear in my eyes of being non-scum. They are not necessarily town.
[snip]
My choices came down to you, LF, and BC.

If you were willing to believe I was non-scum based on Lightfoot’s clear, why was she still among your top three choices?

[Colby11]

Originally Posted by Meeko

God I hate this. I really do.

Please don't take it personally, Colby

I'm not sure how to respond here.




It gets more confusing ::



-----
-----

I don’t have any real reason except that has had a hard couple of weeks, and she seems genuinely frustrated. That plus the lack of enthusiasm kinda pegs me in the town realm.


Not sure where we left off on this, That, Thursday two weeks ago was the worst day at work in 5 years,

The Thursday after that? None other than the CEO comes into my store, and down my cash register line. I made a full transaction with the CEO.

Who was completely disguised, and made no effort at all to reveal himself.

While I basically, essentially didn't do anything that I was supposed to do / ask customers.

Legit, if something happens to me on the 14th, I am taking the 21 off.


I feel like I already shared this. But, I mean, I think it's obvious Im not running on all eight cylinders.

[[Some would say I never was, but, well, give me this one, folks. please.]]

*hugs*

[Colby11]

Ok, cases for the remaining 3. Ranking them in terms of less scummy to more scummy. But the honest answer is that I would be fine with any of the three flipping. (This list actually changed while I was going through everyone… so pardon the fact that it contradicts what I said… cause I’m allowed to change my mind..)

Texcat- the only thing pinging me so far is Day 1, which is (admittedly) a weak case. But I’m curious, what drove the tie Day 1? The non-checking in on todays loss is also bothering me…

SilverPizza- going back to D2, as noted in my previous post, distanced themselves from Kai D2. Now, Pizza has been his regular pizza self, and he’s hard to read from my vantage point. But I still have him here because of his past life’s actions.

Bashorian Clement- probably because it involves me, but their interaction with Guiri where they cleared me as town, then backpedaled on it makes me feel like they are trying to make it seem as if when I flip town, BC could be seen as town as well. The entire interaction just felt manufactured in some way, shape, or form. So I’m going there right now with my vote.

[guiri]

Originally Posted by TexCat

I still think BC is my top choice with Lightfoot being a close second.

Do you have any thought on Colby, the other player alive in this game?

[guiri]

Originally Posted by TexCat

I'm not sure I've gotten anywhere in this game, except that I know now I was wrong about Mahaloth. I have still not embraced the Mordenkainen scum theory. I still think his vote on Kai was sincere. I still have Meeko and Guiri in the firm non-scum category. That leaves me with BC, SJ/Pizza, Colby, and Lightfoot. I'm leaning town on Colby. Guiri seems to think that LF is too scummy to be scum, and he might have a point.

This is the only mention of Colby I can find. What gives you the town lean?

[TexCat]

Originally Posted by guiri

Bolding added.

I guess this could be a brain fart, derp-clear attempt, or simply not following along and missing the Doc reveal at SoD however this is also inconsistent:

If you were willing to believe I was non-scum based on Lightfoot’s clear, why was she still among your top three choices?

Just a complete brain fart. My choices yesterday came down to three, but today I just ???. Once I start thinking someone is scum(even the dead town doc), it's hard to stop.

On Colby, it's much like with Morden, his play just seems sincere to me. I realize that may not help you much, but I'm not sure what else to say. I'm hoping that today's discussion and vote will help with tomorrow's decision between voting Colby and Pizza.

[guiri]

Originally Posted by TexCat

Just a complete brain fart. My choices yesterday came down to three, but today I just ???. Once I start thinking someone is scum(even the dead town doc), it's hard to stop.

Thanks. You answered the first part, but not the second, if you thought she was scum (and forgot she was dead), why would you base your non-scum read on me on her clear on me?

[guiri]

Originally Posted by Bashorian Clement

I'm actually done with this.

Have you actually abandoned the game? Or just don't want to deal with Lightfoot anymore?

[Meeko]

Originally Posted by TexCat

Once I start thinking someone is scum(even the dead town doc), it's hard to stop.

That's my "strategy". No fair! Get your own!

[Meeko]

While we are on the subject of being stuck on bad ideas....

----

But on a serious note, and kind of in line with my ""reasons"", or at least, most of the reasons for my vote Kaiveran [[Before information about the crumb came to mind]]

I'm leery of giving Pizza a pass.

Yes, you've written, at length, about Mafia Theory. And frankly [Sorry] If I had read some of it, I wouldn't make this vote. But, I haven't, and I have.

For better or worse, if Pizza has written as much as he has, he exudes snuggling and pocketing wherever he goes. It's inescapable, outside of a blatant vote. Damn The Torpedoes.

Also, as I hinted to earlier, you getting me to vote in line with Guiri is kinda, it's a special high-grade, pre-cut, Colombian, Jedi Mind-Trick to get me not to think clearly in this game.

It's advantageous of a sort, .... and advantageous of any sort, is something I need to run counter to.

[TexCat]

Originally Posted by guiri

Thanks. You answered the first part, but not the second, if you thought she was scum (and forgot she was dead), why would you base your non-scum read on me on her clear on me?

My non-scum read on you (and Meeko) predates Lightfoot's death. It was based on the Kai elimination. But, yeah, I obviously knew Lightfoot was the dead doc, I have no idea how to explain the brain fart of her ending up on my suspect list again.

[Meeko]

Originally Posted by Colby11

Ok let’s talk about my top two town leans

OOG

I went to bed last night feeling even worse about this than I was when I wrote my response. I'm sorry on my part, if I led you to make certain conclusions already. I am moving to a trial there, yes. I wasn't sure if I was still toeing the line on my pronouns or not. In hindisght, having Mendie pop into the game to reconfigure their* avatars [I paid good money for a Furry comission, that has personalized overalls in them, Mendie is going to use it more than Meeko will. I don't need to hide behind ""Anima"" if Mendie is coming into full force with the picture.] and have Meeko reconfigure His* avatar .... didn't help. What really got to me, is that I didn't think I would have minded having "Meeko" be misgendered, but I do, and I did. As I stated, Mendie considers Meeko to be a Deadname, and I, as of then, had yet to encounter that circumstance in real life. As an aside, it's a weird circumstance to consider this to be "real life", when we have yet to meet each other, and probably never will, (outside of a purposeful meet-up, not that I am looking for one. Not that it was ever feasible, even before Covid) ... and yet, to have Mendie live as much as They** are ... and hit the light of day, with someone else, is all kinds of weird. It struck and "hit" me in a way I was not prepared for. That, there is a real thing here. I'm just not sure if it is that situation where, if a horse smells water, they turn around and bolt for the last water source they remember, miles and miles directly behind them. OR if it is legit a real thing. The amount of "Real" that this is now, scares me. I always felt chickenshit about the whole of my questioning, and I'm not sure that this helps. It's there, and it's a real thing. I'm just not sure the "Real" is in a quantity that matters. * For both monikers, I have used the preferred pronouns. I'll save you the details, but Mendie has good reason to also want to use a singular "They". As I stated, She / Her was going to be a trial. There are definite and competing reasons that inform why Mendie is as they are. I was still clinging to hope that I could encompass all of the reasons. Looks like I might have to pick and choose, and weed a few things out. ** Except here. I actively fought, and forced in a They here. "She" wanted to go here first. I mentioned that I hate this, right?

[guiri]

Originally Posted by Meeko

While we are on the subject of being stuck on bad ideas....

----

But on a serious note, and kind of in line with my ""reasons"", or at least, most of the reasons for my vote Kaiveran [[Before information about the crumb came to mind]]

I'm leery of giving Pizza a pass.

Yes, you've written, at length, about Mafia Theory. And frankly [Sorry] If I had read some of it, I wouldn't make this vote. But, I haven't, and I have.

For better or worse, if Pizza has written as much as he has, he exudes snuggling and pocketing wherever he goes. It's inescapable, outside of a blatant vote. Damn The Torpedoes.

Also, as I hinted to earlier, you getting me to vote in line with Guiri is kinda, it's a special high-grade, pre-cut, Colombian, Jedi Mind-Trick to get me not to think clearly in this game.

It's advantageous of a sort, .... and advantageous of any sort, is something I need to run counter to.

This all makes sense. What about SilverJan, did she give you any reason to suspect her, or read her as Town?

[Meeko]

Originally Posted by guiri

This all makes sense. What about SilverJan, did she give you any reason to suspect her, or read her as Town?

I mean, obviously, I get why you ask this. And what Pizza inherited.

And then, I get stuck in the entire back and forth of, if that really matters.

Not so much that a role can change. [I mean, in some super complicated game that is not our game, GTINOG [is that a slang?] a role can change, but no in this game.

Just, if one player plays their role so well, as to not tip the scales of tells one way or another, that they are a flat NAI read .... do the prior acts matter?

And the derivatives therein. And you enter the spiral I am in.

If I am honest with you I have no read on SilverJan, .... and this IS from lack of trying.

If I am honest with myself, I don't really see my vote changing, even so. Lack of apathy. [Wait. ... well you take my meaning here.]

[guiri]

What counts as "Extreme lurking", a player saying they're done and not coming back?

[guiri]

Originally Posted by Vote Counting Robot

Bashorian Clement (2): TexCat (22), Colby11 (30)
Askthepizzaguy (1): Meeko (37)

48 hours left.

[guiri]

Originally Posted by Bashorian Clement

As far as more than one anti-town faction or player goes, it seems to me that Vanta's death points to there not being multiples despite gnarlycharlie's reveal. Or if there are, it's a survivor (which I guess wouldn't necessarily be anti-town) or someone else without a night kill. I'm confident that Vanta hid behind someone Night 1, and I'm confident that that player is a maf. Otherwise it seems we would've seen three kills it seems.

Anyone want to dissect this post, considering it came before the breadcrumb was found? Why exclude the hiding-behind-PCM scenario, why the confidence that he hid behind scum?

[Meeko]

Originally Posted by guiri

What counts as "Extreme lurking", a player saying they're done and not coming back?

Guiri

In spite of Pizza, if you vote BC here, I can get behind that.*

* Wait, I don't mean to breadcrumb.

[Meeko]

I mean, I'm "done" with this game, too. But not like that.

[Eristic Widgeon]

Originally Posted by guiri

What counts as "Extreme lurking", a player saying they're done and not coming back?

I'm hoping Bashorian will return at some point Today. He was pretty active up until Yesterday, so I certainly wouldn't consider replacing or modkilling him until Tomorrow at the earliest.

[guiri]

Originally Posted by Kaiveran

I think it's pretty clear that from my wagon, I (regrettably) prefer Meeko over BC.

As to narrowing down the other pool....I trust Archangel, and thus put some stock in her TexCat read. Light foot is probably okay because of their independence. And I still think Silverjan was the most pure of the charlie voters and has generally pinged me town.

That leaves Colby and Morden.

Meeko, Colby, Morden.

Is it that simple?

I hope to fuck it's that simple.

Can anyone find a good reason why it’s not Colby and TexCat?

[guiri]

Originally Posted by Colby11

I think right now is probably the last that I’m going to be on til after EOD… so if I had to make a pick about who is scum, I would shoot into this pool

SilverJan- avoiding the Kai case
Texcat- EOD D1
Mahaloth- his claim plus his votes D2
Mordankainen- D2 votes

But any case I can come with does have some question marks… right now I think the best vote is to

Sorry if you answered before, what was it about Mordenkainen's D2 votes that pushed him over the line for you?

[Eristic Widgeon]

It’s 3-0 with over a day to go and not much discussion. If BC gets a fourth vote, and all his current voters affirm a willingness to end Day early, I will hammer. If your vote is on BC and you do not want to hammer, please unvote.