Addiction

[ncoggneato]

I am new here to the board and didn't know where the appropriate place to ask this was, so I picked here.

What is your definition of addiction? If you develop an addiction to something, how does this affect your relationship with that thing? Can you continue having it in your life or do you have to go "cold turkey" never to see it again?

[hajario]

I think that this will do better in Your Two Cents which is the forum for seeking opinions.

I have the furthest thing from an addictive personality that one can have so I won't be able to be of any help to you, except for moving this to a place where you might get better responses.

[ncoggneato]

Thank you for puttin this in its appropriate place!

[mlerose]

I think there are different kinds of addictions.

There are some addictions that become destructive, and these are often addictions to drugs, alcohol, gambling, or other things that, in excess, can be detrimental to a person's life. However, I think it's totally possible to be addicted to something not usually considered to be bad, like food, exercise, and sex. For some things, the best way to deal with the addiction is to remove it completely; however, for others, that isn't possible.

There are other addictions that develop as an offshoot of a habit. Smoking, maybe some forms of exercise addiction, playing video games. Something that you start doing because you like it, and then if you have to change your routine for one reason or another, you start jonesing for it. Obviously, nicotine addiction is the addiction to the drug, but I think for many smokers (and feel free to tell me I'm wrong, smokers, since I've never smoked), the worst part of quitting is changing all of the habits and behaviors associated with smoking. Even hardcore drug addiction can have this component. People with huge tolerances for heroin can easily overdose if they use a normal amount of heroin in an unfamiliar place or with an unfamiliar routine.

[Rebo]

I think you have a huge point there, mle. I have an addictive personality. I used to smoke cigarettes. I quit when I finally decided it was time, but the hardest part was all the "accoutrements." Reaching for a cig when driving, when drinking, when having your morning coffee, after dinner... All of the rituals.

I also used to use cocaine. Those rituals involved people, and I had to quit those people, too. Stop seeing friends that are associated with the behavior.

Food addictions are very difficult for me. Recently I've started a drug for my diabetes that is helping tremendously. I don't get the "mouth craving" as much, and I'm slowly losing weight without much effort. The Cheetos aren't calling to me like they used to.

My addictions are based on feeling better. Filling a hole. My life has changed and I'm able to control most of the behaviors now, because I'm not so sad. I never suffered with depression, thank God. I can imagine how hard it would be to stop destructive behaviors while going through that.

Just "my two cents."

[Trepa Mayfield]

I have a very addictive* personality, such that I have to plan my life somewhat around avoiding things that might get me addicted. My MMO of choice is KOL specifically because it has a built-in mechanic that keeps you from playing for too long. I memorize lists of MLM scams, so I'll know when to run before I start listening to their pitch. And I'm not old enough to drink, but when I am, I'll probably be a teetotaler unless I need to drink for some reason.

The worst I ever got addicted to something was a few years ago, to the website TvTropes. For the record, it's a website that records tropes, or things commonly used in fiction. It is very comprehensive, with tropes and fictional works all cross-indexed and linked to anything remotely related. I found the website one day and *poof!*, there went a month of my life. That was the month I was graduating from high school, too...important stuff probably happened then but I can't remember.

I knew enough to avoid the website after that but the darn thing is like a weed...one link and all of the sudden you've got 50 tabs sprouting from every corner of your browser. Every so often I would lose a month or a couple of weeks or so. Nasty business.

Eventually, believe it or not, I actually managed to tame that particular addiction. I had a job that let me surf the internet, and I also had crappy hours (1.5 a day). By browsing the website during that time and killing the tabs thereafter, over and over and over again (over the course of a year), I eventually got into the habit of being able to close tabs when I needed to. It's a really great website, too, so I'm glad I could. Incidentally, my problem actually happens to a lot of people. So it's a genuinely addictive website.

*I seriously wish the term were "addict's personality", since "addictive personality" sounds like someone who's massively charismatic, but the term stuck.

[Dragonlady]

Since you are new here, you haven't heard about my Ex, referred to as the Addict.
He is addicted to not only the drug - usually meth, although he does that to stay of heroin, but to the lifestyle as well. He wants the drama and the back story and the running around at all hours as much as he wants the fix. It's all he knows, he first started needling his dope at age 12, he's 36 now.
Addiction, in my definition, is when a substance or a habit becomes so consuming that you suffer in other areas of your life because of it.

[Wolf Larsen]

My definition of addiction is when you do actually like or want it anymore but you still have to have it.

[bufftabby]

I think once you've become addicted to a drug, part of staying off of it in the future is not to be around it. I think that's how a lot of people backslide. They're still hanging out with their addict friends, and before you know it, somebody's breaking out the lines or whathaveyou. That's the sort of thing that can break even the staunchest willpower, especially once everyone else starts using. Even years later, a former addict would do well to avoid being in its presence, even if that means sitting alone in another room while everyone else does it. IMO, addiction happens when wanting something becomes needing something.

[Dragonlady]

Sitting in another room won't always help. Being around people who are high is a trigger, too.

You need to leave everyone you know behind. It's the only thing I've seen work in 8 years watching him and his cohorts. ONE guy got off the dope-jail-prison-dope wagon, just ONE and no one sees him any more. I friended him on Facebook and he hasn't even seen ME and I don't use, because he associates me with the Addict.
YYMV

[Trepa Mayfield]

Originally Posted by Hypnagogic Bonafide

<snip>

I just realized I forgot to make a point. :o

My point is that addictions can come from many places, and you can tell it's addiction when it starts messing with your inner machinations (like the digestive system, or the memory cortex).

[bufftabby]

Originally Posted by Dragonlady

Sitting in another room won't always help. Being around people who are high is a trigger, too.

That, or talking about it, or thinking about it. But sometimes it's unexpected, and just plain leaving isn't feasible. I think that happens more often with something like cocaine, which is more of a party drug than something like meth. I know people who occasionally use cocaine with no ill effects, but I don't know any occasional meth users.

[Random Precision]

I realized I was addicted to cigarettes when I noticed that I didn't even have to be around someone else smoking to want one. Just reading about someone smoking caused me to reach for my smokes and lighter. I finally stopped 4 years ago, but I still have the nicotine monkey. I just get my nicotine in handy chewable form now. Mmmm, Marlboro flavored gum.

IMO, addiction is when you cannot control your use of something, even when it becomes destructive and you know that you should, but can't.

And because you are unable to control this desire, total removal from the addictive substance is likely the only route to beating the addiction. Because, even though you know that one drink, one cigarette, one hit of crack, one chocolate bar, one hand of poker or whatever isn't going to hurt you, you already know, or should, that you are unable to stop at one. If you don't stop at zero, you might not stop.

[Pirate]

I think addiction is two fold. A physical and/or mental dependency.

In my case, I had a drinking problem. I went to rehab to clean my system out and heard the horrors of how I'd never be able to have a drink again because I'd be looking for that buzz I used to get.

I stayed sober for 10 years until I gave into my wife's curiosity of how I was when I was drunk. I used to be a funny guy then, not the mean asshole type. So I gave in and had a few on a New Years Eve. My tolerance was still high and I didn't get buzzed. Nor did I crave to.

It's been about 8 years now and I still don't crave getting drunk. I have about a drink or 2 a couple of times a week just to taste something different.

Now cigarettes I can't quit. I don't have the drive to do it like I did last time.

[Bodhiman]

Addiction kind of runs in our family. I got so tanked last time I went home solo that I still don't remember everything. The fact that most who saw me said I hid it well scared the hell outta me. I haven't had a drop since. I still have an addiction to tobacco (smokeless) which I've promised my youngest son I will kick by September, '11. I'd say mine is mostly mental addiction.There is some obvious physical withdrawl, but nothing I can't handle. I just choose not to. I've quit chewing three times for more than 30 days but each time managed to screw things up and start again.

[Mako]

Trying to reach for a definition without consulting a dictionary... I guess I'd say that an addiction is any activity or substance that intrudes on your normal function in such a way that it occupies your attention to the exclusion of all other considerations. Whether it is a chemical or psychological dependency is immaterial.

How did I do?

On a personal note - and I should sock this, but seriously, who really cares FFS - I'm like Hypnagogic Bonafide in that I recognize that I have a personality geared toward addiction. I've got my excuses pre-prepared and can justify anything I want...to myself, and the only thing that's saved me from self-destruction is wanting to see what the future holds. Particularly back in 2000-1 when I spent pretty much every night getting drunk to get to sleep, which avoided me laying there thinking. The need to do this became overpowering to the extent that I would be at work thinking about how I was going to get drunk that night.

My life suffered. I took up displacement activities instead. When I think about it at all, I realise I must have been very lucky. I can still drink, and it doesn't own me.

Sorry, I know that you didn't mean this to be a confessional, but I wanted to explain why I understand addiction.

[Giraffe]

I feel lame saying it, but I've listened to a lot of Loveline and feel like I've learned a lot about what addiction is from Dr. Drew, who despite being a celebrity doctor has run a treatment center for like 20 years and seems to have a lot of experience treating the disease.

One distinction he makes is between addiction and dependency. I always thought they were the same thing, but there seems to be a pretty big distinction. Anyone can get chemically dependent on tobacco, for example, where you crave it and experience withdrawal symptoms when you don't get it.

Proper addiction on the other hand goes beyond simple craving and withdrawal avoidance into the low level pleasure/reward mechanisms in your brain. It seems to have a strong genetic component -- some people just have a switch in their brains that gets flipped and creates a powerful drive for drugs/sex/whatever that goes beyond willful control. And because it's not just dependency, it's much, much harder to just stop, i.e. even if you can get yourself off e.g. heroin, you'll just jump over to alcohol or pot or shoplifting or risky sex -- whatever it takes to feed that part of your brain that demands the rush/gratification of those types of activities.

I never knew that before, and it finally makes me get the "alcoholism as a disease" idea -- it's not the alcohol that's the cause, it's your brain itself.

Anyway, to answer the OP, they say the way to tell the difference is consequences: if whatever you're doing is starting to fuck up your life, but you still keep doing it, then odds are good that you're an addict.

[backyard]

I've worked in the mental health field for about fifteen years, and spent several years working in addictions. Mako makes a significant point related to functioning. Addiction controls you, instead of you controlling the thing, whatever it is. Hence, the ideology of powerlessness in the twelve steps.

[ncoggneato]

Thank you everyone for responding! The reason I asked the question is because I have been trying to decide if I am addicted to a (several?) things. I have been having this discussion with Smarts as well as my co workers who are addiction counselors. And while Smarts is firm in her definitions, one of my co-workers seems unable to give a one size fits all definition of what addiction is. He recently gave an example and asked if I thought this person is an addict or not. And I would be interested to hear other people's responses.

Ted is a pot smoker. He needed to get a job, so he studied for his possible pee tests by abstaining. He got a job that does random and frequent drug tests so he continues to abstain. However, he states that once he is retired or if the circumstances of his employment change, he will smoke pot again. Is Ted an addict?

Something else to consider is another co worker of mine who is also an addictions counselor and has been clean for over 2 decades says there is a big difference between being sober and being in recovery. People can have periods of sobriety but it doesn't mean they have resolved their issues with the thing they were using/abusing/addicted to.

[Zombies!]

I would not call Ted an addict. He enjoys smoking, but he is able to stop without any negative effects. He will start again if he's free to, but he's not trying to circumvent his work's policies in order to get a hit.

If Ted had falsified his drug test, or planned to do so in the future, in order to be able to smoke weed because he just can't cope without it, then I'd call him an addict.

[iampunha]

Originally Posted by ncoggneato

Ted is a pot smoker. He needed to get a job, so he studied for his possible pee tests by abstaining. He got a job that does random and frequent drug tests so he continues to abstain. However, he states that once he is retired or if the circumstances of his employment change, he will smoke pot again. Is Ted an addict?

IMO, in the medical sense of the word, Ted is not addicted to marijuana. Marijuana does not form a chemical dependency, as (for example) heroin, cocaine and tobacco do*.

Now, if Ted were emotionally addicted to marijuana, in the sense that he became unbearable when he hadn't gotten high in more than a month, that would be something else. But saying you're going to start doing X again once you can -- but being able to function without it and not trying to circumvent the process to get back to functioning with it -- suggests to me the kind of clear-headed thinking that does not present with an addiction.


*I am also excluding from consideration uses of marijuana for things like combating the nausea associated with, e.g., cancer treatment. If you can't beat that nausea without using marijuana, and you can't keep food down without beating the nausea, you're not addicted to marijuana so much as your survival instinct -- you must eat to live -- has kicked in. In that instance, you're no more addicted to marijuana than you are to food. You can live without cocaine, even if withdrawal will be a beast. You cannot live without eating, so anything that gets you to the point of being able to sustain your life ought to be considered in that vein rather than any associated with addiction.

[backyard]

Originally Posted by ncoggneato

Thank you everyone for responding! The reason I asked the question is because I have been trying to decide if I am addicted to a (several?) things. I have been having this discussion with Smarts as well as my co workers who are addiction counselors. And while Smarts is firm in her definitions, one of my co-workers seems unable to give a one size fits all definition of what addiction is. He recently gave an example and asked if I thought this person is an addict or not. And I would be interested to hear other people's responses.

Ted is a pot smoker. He needed to get a job, so he studied for his possible pee tests by abstaining. He got a job that does random and frequent drug tests so he continues to abstain. However, he states that once he is retired or if the circumstances of his employment change, he will smoke pot again. Is Ted an addict?

Something else to consider is another co worker of mine who is also an addictions counselor and has been clean for over 2 decades says there is a big difference between being sober and being in recovery. People can have periods of sobriety but it doesn't mean they have resolved their issues with the thing they were using/abusing/addicted to.

Recovery is often viewed as life-long. A journey, not a destination. The temptation to return to the addiction is omnipresent as long as the addictive substance/behavior is attainable. Ted is not an addict. He's a user of marijuana.

[SmartAleq]

Let's reframe Ted's situation. Ted really loves chocolate, but is overweight. Ted has given up chocolate in order to get his weight under control and has done so but continues to abstain because he doesn't want to regain the weight he lost. However, Ted states that if circumstances changed, say that a drug became available that allowed you to eat whatever you wanted without gaining weight, or a zero calorie chocolate were developed he would nom down the chocolate like nobody's business. Is Ted an addict?

My answer is no--Ted is just a guy who really fucking likes chocolate. He can abstain when his greater good demands it but nonetheless he'd really still like to be able to eat his chocolate, just like most of us do. Life is tough, sometimes pleasure is hard to come by and when you find something that helps you to cope with stresses and makes you feel good you're going to do it, especially when your stressors increase beyond your native ability to cope. Because if you don't, you're likely to get depressed and maybe NOT cope with your stressors. Addiction is what happens when the stressors go away but the level of use of your coping mechanism doesn't and it has become an end in itself that you no longer have control over, even if it damages your life.

F'rinstance, I really love to drive. It centers me, makes me feel better about things and gives me a controlled space where I can think things over or give myself challenges to release endorphins (like doing some twisty roads really fast.) However, at the moment I'm too broke to be able to afford much gas so I don't go out for random drives no matter how much I'd like to. If I were going out driving 200 miles every day and spending money on gas that should be saved for the mortgage, I'd be an addict. As it is, I'm just someone who can't afford one of her coping tools.

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by iampunha

IMO, in the medical sense of the word, Ted is not addicted to marijuana. Marijuana does not form a chemical dependency, as (for example) heroin, cocaine and tobacco do*.

Now, if Ted were emotionally addicted to marijuana, in the sense that he became unbearable when he hadn't gotten high in more than a month, that would be something else.

I think this is all true for the average person. However, for a true addict (i.e. someone with the genetic predisposition toward alcoholism/addiction), marijuana is supposed to be profoundly addictive in a way that's not really accurately expressed by the phrase "emotional addiction", since marijuana addicts can't stop using even in the face of serious consequences.

Ted doesn't sound at all like an addict, though, for the reasons already expressed by others: he was able to stop volitionally when he needed to, and stay off it to avoid negative effects on his life. That's not addiction, pretty much by definition.

[mlerose]

Originally Posted by Giraffe

I think this is all true for the average person. However, for a true addict (i.e. someone with the genetic predisposition toward alcoholism/addiction), marijuana is supposed to be profoundly addictive in a way that's not really accurately expressed by the phrase "emotional addiction", since marijuana addicts can't stop using even in the face of serious consequences.

I was sired by one of those. It's part of the reason why I don't have a relationship with him anymore.

[backyard]

Just out of curiosity, Giraffe, when you say "serious consequences", do you mean legal ones or other?

[Mako]

Originally Posted by backyard

Just out of curiosity, Giraffe, when you say "serious consequences", do you mean legal ones or other?

I took it to mean both medically (paranoia, violent acting-out*, etc. in some people) and legally (getting arrested trying to score, or stealing to fund the habit).


*I realise this is contrary to received wisdom about the Herb, but some of the stronger Skunk blends can have this effect.

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by backyard

Just out of curiosity, Giraffe, when you say "serious consequences", do you mean legal ones or other?

I don't know, I'm just parroting other people on this one. I believe it means anything: damaging relationships, losing jobs, getting DUIs or going to jail. If whatever you're addicted to starts ruining your life but you keep doing it, that's a sign that you're an addict (and not just someone who really likes smoking pot).

[bufftabby]

In my experience, people who find themselves addicted to pot the way Giraffe describes, often suffer from some form of mental illness. I don't know whether this is true for everyone, but I can tell ya that schizophrenia and large amounts of pot don't mix, and I've got the scars to prove it.

[mlerose]

Originally Posted by bufftabby

In my experience, people who find themselves addicted to pot the way Giraffe describes, often suffer from some form of mental illness. I don't know whether this is true for everyone, but I can tell ya that schizophrenia and large amounts of pot don't mix, and I've got the scars to prove it.

I'm pretty sure my dad falls into this category. While he'd never get checked out for it, he's at the very least borderline or narcissistic and possibly bipolar (II).

[SmartAleq]

I'm with buff, the only person I've ever known that I would categorize as addicted to pot was my ex, who can easily go through an ounce in a week. He'll scrape resin out of pipes and smoke it if he runs out (this is one of the most nauseating smells in the world, worse than stale bong water) and he'll do anything to get more. He'll steal from friends, cuddle up to people he hates in order to cash in on their circle, pretty much anything. And if he doesn't get his monkey fed he's a raving rat bastard, even more so than usual. I ended up spending about 50 times more than I would have for myself on weed just to keep some sort of peace and quiet going in the house, and that's on top of paying for his fucking cigarettes too, because you just don't want to know how fun an abusive narcissist is when he's deprived of all his addictive substances at once. Oh yeah, and while he wasn't generally much of a drinker he'd also just sort of quietly work his way through any alcohol in the house. What a wanker.

[Anacanapuna]

My personal definition is if you're indulging so much that it's damaging your marriage or SO relationship, it's probably addictive. My wife and I had yet another loud, angry conversation about my drinking the other night, and I decided that it was damaging our marriage, so I did the only thing I could do. I got her into a 12-step program for people who compulsively criticize their mates. I think it's working.