Omagh

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Anyone watching/watched this?

For those of you who don't get Channel 4, it's a drama/documentary covering the Omagh bombing by the Real IRA. I have to say- it's tough sitting through it.

[Zack Lee Wright]

Thanks for making me Google that and spend the last 2 hours or so reading about the IRA the Real IRA the Continuity IRA the PIRA the INLA the Sinn Fein the Republican Sinn Fein on and on and on.


Completely unrelated to the tragedy you posted about, but something that bugs me. Did they have a realistic chance of uniting Ireland if they stayed united? I noticed so many splinter groups!

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No- violence just begat more violence.And, like the Mafia, what started out as a cause just ended up as a hotbed of thuggery and racketeering.

[cormac]

i dont know where you're from blank, but I was born and raised in Omagh and I really dont think your description of thuggery and racketeering in anyway describes what went (and still is) going on.

Much much much more complicated than that - but I suppose you could call it 'thuggery and racketeering' if you really wanted to oversimplify an extremely complicated turbulent 30/40 years.

[cormac]

Originally Posted by Zack Lee Wright

Completely unrelated to the tragedy you posted about, but something that bugs me. Did they have a realistic chance of uniting Ireland if they stayed united? I noticed so many splinter groups!

a united ireland is a replublican goal, but a very misunderstood one. for it to work, you'd have to plan it for 50 years, take another 50 years to gradually ease it in and at the end of it you wouldnt have whats known as northern ireland or the republic or ireland (as in one wouldnt be taken over by the other) but instead have a completely different government system over a 100 year period that incorporates the whoel country.

Would it last? I'd say so - its a small country with two economies, two governments etc etc .. thats not economically viable nor stable and means the country is always depending on someone else (which is the way certain factors want it).

The real issue though for the IRA etc etc was ending the treatment of one part of society as a complete underclass which had very limited rights when it came to work, housing, voting etc etc etc. Its the unrest caused by that treatment that caused a very dirty war to happen. I had my own run ins with loyalist paramiliataries due to where i lived and what religion i was, I was spied upon by the RUC and basically guilty by association (guilty of what I dont know) which made me an open target for police harrassment. I ended up leaving the place. Others didnt leave and joined the IRA instead. There was no 'mafia' involved - thats The Sunday World who invented that claptrap.

Thank fuck its over (almost) if you ask me.

[WednesdayAddams]

cormac;

I was under the impression that the gradual easing into it is basically what is happening now. It certainly seems more stable than it was even ten years ago. How do you see the current situation?

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Originally Posted by cormac

i dont know where you're from blank, but I was born and raised in Omagh and I really dont think your description of thuggery and racketeering in anyway describes what went (and still is) going on.

Much much much more complicated than that - but I suppose you could call it 'thuggery and racketeering' if you really wanted to oversimplify an extremely complicated turbulent 30/40 years.

I call it as I see it. The paramilitaries lost any legitimacy many years ago- The continued existence of the hardliners is due to them not wanting to give up the cash generated from the drugs and the protection rackets.

[cormac]

we both know (Especially in ireland) how these kinds of discussions go but please, get your facts straight. Some paramilitary groups (loyalists and dissidents particulary) run drugs - others dont. Some run protection rackets (though thats dying out) - others dont.

Speaking straight is one thing, but speaking like you are a Sunday World reader and over simplifying and tarring everyone with the one brush is a completely different thing. And no offense meant there at all. I just dont think you actually have a full grasp of what went on.

I watched a TV3 thing about C.A.B. the other night and had to laugh my arse off with its details on the high rolling republicans (specifically pira) who were living it up in the north. Amazing, newspaper selling bullshit, but complete bollocks all the same. Still, those in the south who know no better will believe it so who am I to argue?

cormac;
I was under the impression that the gradual easing into it is basically what is happening now. It certainly seems more stable than it was even ten years ago. How do you see the current situation?

It is improving massively and thats good. The problem is that the underlining problem (as outlined with the Omagh bombing itself) has never been addressed. That prblem is that a proportion of the Republican movement doesnt believ in the good friday agreement and doesnt believe that Britain really wants to help sort problems out.

I can see what they mean - look at Steak knife (who as far as I can make out was a Mi5 agent), the NI Bank Robbery (the only cash found was found in an RUC lesiure centre - collusion anyone?) and the Omagh bombing itself where the Police Ombudsman stated that there was a high chance that the PSNI worked alongside the RIRA in the bomb operation.

As much as is going on, theres still the underlying current of unrest by people who basically just dont believe the British Government and believe this all to be another long winded ploy where they get republicans to disarm, wait until the IRA are a thing of the past and then its business as usual, back to the way of supremacy that always existed.

Personally, Im glad to see the peace and Im trusting that the British government will stick to the agreement they made, and not try to gain political advancement by things like the NI Bank Robbery (that one got unionist leader David Trimble out of a lot of hot water)

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That's why I used the term "paramilitaries" rather than singled any one of them out. And while I know Sunday World readers I can't say I've ever read it myself. I prefer to use numerous different sources and even discussions with people who were (allegedly) active in the Troubles, in order to form my opinion. You accuse me of "over simplifying" and "tarring everyone with the same brush" and then compare me to a Sunday World reader. Are you sure you are not being the tiniest bit hypocritical here? No offence.

[cormac]

i agree - i was a bit harsh there about the sunday world. my apologies.

Still though - I do think you are over-simplifying something thats incredibly complex and doesnt have a black/white answer. ESPECIALLY when it comes to Omagh. I could tell you stories about that day but I'd prefer to forget it tbh ... but many suspect that besides the RIRA, certain disgruntled PSNI officers where involved - those who didnt like the idea of losing the danger money, losing their job or losing the overtime. That may sound petty - but such people exist.

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Originally Posted by cormac

i agree - i was a bit harsh there about the sunday world. my apologies.

Still though - I do think you are over-simplifying something thats incredibly complex and doesnt have a black/white answer. ESPECIALLY when it comes to Omagh. I could tell you stories about that day but I'd prefer to forget it tbh ... but many suspect that besides the RIRA, certain disgruntled PSNI officers where involved - those who didnt like the idea of losing the danger money, losing their job or losing the overtime. That may sound petty - but such people exist.

Believe me- I know the history. I'm just talking about how things stand now. Ireland isn't the land of terrorists any more (no- the muslins have taken over that one), Ireland is now the land of playwrights and river-dances.

[cormac]

riverdance with the completely made up irish dancing

As I outlined above though, its not all over yet by a long shot - though I really hope it is.

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Originally Posted by cormac

riverdance with the completely made up irish dancing

As I outlined above though, its not all over yet by a long shot - though I really hope it is.

Hopefully the wide scale violence is- you'll still have the small skirmishes but I look at those as being somewhat akin to a fight in a pub on a Friday night.

[cormac]

martin ferris certainly didnt help things the other day

[An Gadaí]

I watched a bit but found it rough. My family are from that area. My da taught Gerard McSorley in secondary school! I was up in Omagh on Saturday and was sitting in a hotel room in Belfast when it was on. I must watch it sometime but found it too hard to get through.

[cormac]

two of my parents next door neighbours were killed in it, plus another neighbour lost a leg. My nephew was quite lucky as he had been standing beside the car that exploded about 5 mins before it did. My sister in law had to stand at the area bodies were being brought to, to stop people gawking at the corpses. It was a bad day.

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Didn't know anyone in Omagh but did know someone who was in Warrington

[Zack Lee Wright]

This is sickly fascinating. I knew bits and pieces of The Troubles. Realizing how violent it was, wow. Any good non fiction books on the entire history?

[An Gadaí]

The Troubles By Tim Pat Coogan is one of the better ones.

[An Gadaí]

Originally Posted by cormac

two of my parents next door neighbours were killed in it, plus another neighbour lost a leg. My nephew was quite lucky as he had been standing beside the car that exploded about 5 mins before it did. My sister in law had to stand at the area bodies were being brought to, to stop people gawking at the corpses. It was a bad day.

I've got one of those stupid "I was in Dallas that day" type stories. A friend and I were meant to be visiting Omagh that day but a few guys called in sick to my dad's work so we couldn't go.

[cormac]

theres a few things that piss me off about that bombing.

first - theres been zillions of bomb scares in omagh thoughtout the 80s when i was growing up there. in everyone of them people where sent to the bus depot - its a large open area with no large building etc etc or concealed places nearby. means basically theres a very slim chance that there'll be a bomb hidden anywhere near and therefore the safest place to go to. This didnt happen on the day of the omagh bomb. instead the cops sent people to the bottom of market street - which is a narrow street with large buildings on each side. if you were standing there and a bomb ent off - well, you'd get much the same as what actaully happened - fucking carnage. Whats the chances all those people were sent to an apparently safe place by the cops, which ended up being the location of the bomb? why werent they all sent to the bus depot as would be the usual?

second - My sister drove past the court house at 3pm - about 10 mins before the bomb went off. The bomb was apparently in the courthouse, yet there was only one cop there, very little security and my sister managed to drive right up to the courthouse before the cop stopped her. If the cops *really* thought the bomb was there, howcome there wasnt more security and how did my sister get so close to a building that was apparently about to blow up? unless of course the cops didnt think it was .....

[cormac]

Originally Posted by Zack Lee Wright

This is sickly fascinating. I knew bits and pieces of The Troubles. Realizing how violent it was, wow. Any good non fiction books on the entire history?

SAS: Soldiers Talking - gives quite an eyeopener into how the army looked at the north.