Felt vs. MC: Mafia Day 3 Thread

[Trepa Mayfield]

Far from coming too early, today the background music started up late! The town began to shuffle to only late in the morning, tipsy and hungover from arguing late into the night, while music stumbled along, off-tempo and dissonant.

At first, it seemed that everyone was okay! No body. No blood. Certainly, there didn't seem to be any evidence of foul play. But, when headcount was taken, BillMC was missing. The townsfolk searched his bed, but he wasn't there. He wasn't in his room or the dining room or the vault or the attic or anywhere in the large mansion. How odd. He is not here.

BillMC is dead, but you all are stumped as to who or what he was.

Day 3 ends at 9:00 PM, MDT on Sunday, March 6

[Trepa Mayfield]

Initial Vote Count:

Placeholder (1): Zuma [Day 2]

Voting in the Future: None

Voting in the Past: None

Voting from the Future: None

Voting from the Past: Zuma [Day 2]

With these votes, no one will be lynched.

[Idle Thoughts]

Weird. I notice nowhere does it say he's dead though...just missing. Could it be he's lost somewhere in time? Maybe someone has a power to send someone into the future or past (unlike Giraffe's claimed power, which he says just sends the vote, apparently).

Anyway, the top three people on my suspicions list are Giraffe (I believe the claim, I just think it could be a scum role), Lucifer (for all of the weird Day One voting and Day Two absence) and Zuma (see reasons for Lucifer).

I'm happy to vote for any of them...however I will start out by
Voting Giraffe from toDay.

[Idle Thoughts]

Oh, and I DID NOT get a PM this time.

[moody mitchy]

Just a quick thought before I go to work...

What's the possibility of SCUM being able to pull a NK forward ? This might give and explaination of why 2 Night one and one last Night.

BillMc missing...? Idle Thoughts Look again... !!!!!!

Possible Janitor type role inplace ?

I protected Sister Coyote last Night. Seemed as good a choice as any as I'm not getting any real read from them. Also because again... if Idle Thoughts and Romanic are telling the truth.. then I felt SCUM would leave them alone.

I'm suprised that Giraffe is still with us. I thought that his "claim" last Night would have meant he'd been taken out but this could be due to SCUM possibly pulling the Night kill like I said before.

I'd be loathe to vote another "claimed" TOWN power as my record on that hasn't been too hot lately.

I'll have another read later and post some more.

[Lucifer]

I've been busy

[Total Ulla]

I think Giraffe's claim is very WiFoU or rather Wine in Front of ME.

The power is IMO very anti-town. I know I can't conclude or assume (*wink* Romanic) that the role is therefore not-town.
But I can't really see what benefit Town can have from this role.
And what also makes me very suspicious is the fact that the power can be "proven".

So if the claim is false and the power doesn't exist:
All Giraffe have to do is claim he targeted a fellow scum and that scum wouldn't vote for a day. This might work for a Day or Two and then we would be able to pick the most or entire Scum team.
Very unlikely.

But if the claim is false but the power is real:
Giraffe would be able to "prove" the claim by stealing the power of a townie and thereby "prove" the claim to some extend.
And I know from past experience that as the game goes by some (yes, that would be me) tend to trust a claim more and more. Because new data shows up all the time and it's easy to let a player slowly more from "unconfirmed with a claim" to "not really confirmed with a claim" to slowly "almost confirmed with a claim".

Of cause it could be that the claim is true:
In with case I don't see the use of it as pro-Town no matter what. Sorry but it's IMO never a good thing to prevent players from voting. We loose data and vote records when it happens. Even if the player not voting is Scum. I think it is better to have the vote in the game where we can hold the player accountable for the vote.

[Total Ulla]

Originally Posted by Lucifer

I've been busy

That would suggest that things have changed and you will be around some more

If so - could you try and give a better answer than "meh" to the question posted by Romola?

[BobArrgh]

Did Bill quit and you were either unable to find him a substitute or it was too late in the game or was he ModKilled?


I don't recall seeing a "Sub Wanted" message on any of the usual boards.

[Trepa Mayfield]

Originally Posted by BobArrgh

Did Bill quit and you were either unable to find him a substitute or it was too late in the game or was he ModKilled?


I don't recall seeing a "Sub Wanted" message on any of the usual boards.

BillMC did not quit and was not Modkilled. He is, however, so dead he can join the spoiler board if he wishes.

[Lucifer]

Originally Posted by Total Ulla

That would suggest that things have changed and you will be around some more

If so - could you try and give a better answer than "meh" to the question posted by Romola?

I'll had to go and find it. Part of my problem is I've been forced to participate via phone instead of PC, which has been a ginormous pain in the ass. If you care to replay the question here you may get a quicker response

[Lucifer]

Stupid autocorrect...

[BobArrgh]

I think it is time to start getting rid of the lurkers and other dead weight.

Zuma: The only evidence I see that he is in the game is because he was one of the targets of the vote power struggle yesterDay. He has been almost completely absent since D1.

Sister Coyote: Doesn't vote on D1 or D2. I can see a person missing a single vote, but two votes? Really?

Lucifer: I don't have very much experience playing with Lucifer, since he was only in the Dr. Seuss game for a single Day. On the other hand, he said he is accessing the board from a phone. I have a Samsung phone (not a "smart phone" like an iPhone), and I can access the Internet. However, I tried reading this board on it back in the Dr. Seuss game and couldn't get past the first 6 posts on a page 1 of a thread. His explanation for his lack of participation rings true.

Zeener and Bill were both Town, and they both voted for Zuma yesterDay, so that in itself looks like a good reason to be suspicious of Zuma. However, Idle and [/b]Romanic[/b] voted for him, too, and I have a lot of suspicions about Romanic.

@ Romanic: Are you going to test Giraffe's claim about your inability to vote?

At this point, getting rid of Zuma gets rid of a lurker and would also help to shed some light on the Giraffe / Romanic conflict.

[Romanic]

I don't need to test Giraffe's claim, since I received a PM last night, telling me about it.

A fresh new Day! You hear your fellow townies conversing and go to join them...

But something's wrong. There is no sound of a coffee drip. The birds are oddly silent. And, most importantly, the shadows are all wrong. They appear to be, not the bright and empty Day shadows, but the long and dark Night shadows. You wander around, trying to shake it, but it still feels like Night. It is Night, for you.

You appear to be stuck in a Night cycle, even as Day 3 has started. As such, you cannot vote during Day 3.

But I will place a vote, so the next tally confirms it.

vote: Giraffe

Once confirmed, I'll try banking my D3 vote for later, maybe I can do that.

[Romanic]

@Idle,

My biggest beef against Giraffe is his tally manipulation on Day 2, where he appeared to be saving Zuma many times during the Day. I'm also suspicious of him for his relentless attacks on me, but like a lot of players, I have a weak spot when people vote against me when I am Town.

For this reason, I think it would be best to lynch Zuma first, to validate the connection. I don't see a ScumGiraffe manipulating the tally, late as he did, unless he was trying to save Zuma. That would bring an unnecessary spotlight on him. And he's claimed a Town role, that I am tempted to believe. And zuma is useless anyway, for his lack of participation, and him being online and not posting, as you pointed out on Day 2.

Short story: I think we should lynch Zuma before Giraffe.

[SisterCoyote]

Originally Posted by BobArrgh

Sister Coyote: Doesn't vote on D1 or D2. I can see a person missing a single vote, but two votes? Really?

Yes, really. I'm an idiot.

[SisterCoyote]

BillMc's lack of reveal could have to do with the Scum having a Janitor, in addition to the possibility of there being something funky about his role.

Zuma's silence is surprising.

[Total Ulla]

As I have said all along. I'm pretty sure a scum join in on the (still to me) weak case of voting Idle for not claiming.

Given all the strange interactions between Giraffe and Zuma I'm inclined to believe them both to be Scum at this point.

However it looks like Giraffe is voting to save Zuma. This leads me to believe that Zuma might have a power role and Giraffe either has the power he has claimed (not that useful since we will all be watching how he use it) or he doesn't have a power at all.

So I'd rather lynch Zuma toDay and then look at Giraffe toMorrow based on what Zuma flips.

Vote Zuma

[Romanic]

As a note, there's a problem with the domain name, and you might not be able to reach this website without using the IP address, until this is resolved.

http://64.57.208.241/

Thanks to CIAS, for providing this link.

Even if www.giraffeboards.com does work for you at the moment, it will stop eventually when the domain data has propagated to your dns server.

Don't worry if you don't understand the last paragraph, all you need to know is to take note of the IP address above, and use it to access this forum, if the usual url doesn't work.

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by Total Ulla

As I have said all along. I'm pretty sure a scum join in on the (still to me) weak case of voting Idle for not claiming.

Given all the strange interactions between Giraffe and Zuma I'm inclined to believe them both to be Scum at this point.

However it looks like Giraffe is voting to save Zuma. This leads me to believe that Zuma might have a power role and Giraffe either has the power he has claimed (not that useful since we will all be watching how he use it) or he doesn't have a power at all.

So I'd rather lynch Zuma toDay and then look at Giraffe toMorrow based on what Zuma flips.

Vote Zuma

I agree with this logic. If Zuma flips scum, I think Town has to lynch me. I can't see a way to argue against it, even though I know I'm Town -- I would never let a player who swung the vote from scum to Town at the last minute go unlynched, and I don't expect anyone else to do the same.

If Zuma flips Town, I think that's pretty strong evidence of my Towniness, as I can't see any scum benefit to sticking my neck out like that to chose one Town player over another, but it's of course not absolute confirmation.

I also agree with your earlier post about a vote-blocker being of dubious and perhaps negative value to Town -- I personally can't see a lot of value in reducing the voting pool without strong reason to believe a given player will vote in a way that is harmful to Town.

[BillMc]

Originally Posted by Hypnagogic Bonafide

BillMC is dead, but you all are stumped as to who or what he was.

Awww - I guess it was the threat of a re-read

Spoil me please

[Idle Thoughts]

Originally Posted by Total Ulla

As I have said all along. I'm pretty sure a scum join in on the (still to me) weak case of voting Idle for not claiming.

Given all the strange interactions between Giraffe and Zuma I'm inclined to believe them both to be Scum at this point.

However it looks like Giraffe is voting to save Zuma. This leads me to believe that Zuma might have a power role and Giraffe either has the power he has claimed (not that useful since we will all be watching how he use it) or he doesn't have a power at all.

So I'd rather lynch Zuma toDay and then look at Giraffe toMorrow based on what Zuma flips.

Vote Zuma

I still don't understand this logic. I say still because this same thing happened in the game on the SDMB before this one.
Pleonast voted at the last minute to save someone from a lynch, so it really looked shady on his part. It looked like he was trying to save the person in the lead with votes....to me, it makes more sense to go after the person playing around with the votes first, because if Zuma is Town, it still doesn't say anything about Giraffe's alignment (and I will still think Giraffe is suspicious--because I thought he was suspicious even before the voting yesterDay). If Giraffe is first and is shown to be scum, however, it makes it much easier to assume Zuma might be.

Pleonast was scum in that game, by the way, but both the person he voted for at the last minute and the person he seemed to be saving from a lynch were Town.

[Romanic]

Why did Pleonast voted at the last minute then?

[Idle Thoughts]

Probably for the same reason Giraffe did...which is another good point in favor of lynching Giraffe first:
The person who was lynched (Zeener in this case) made a claim of Town Power Role.
Even barring Zuma is Town, Giraffe could (and probably would) have wanted to keep Zeener as the lynchee just because he (Giraffe) knew Zeener wasn't scum (thus telling the truth about his claim) and wanted to bump off the known power role.

Let's face it, if you're scum and you have your choice of two people to lynch and ONE of them claimed a Doctor/Protection role...who would you want to be the one lynched?
So even if Zuma is Town, I'd say that didn't make it more likely Giraffe was Town. If anything, I'd still have the same amount of suspicion on Giraffe as I did toDay.


In short: I think Giraffe (scum) cast the lynching vote for Zeener (Weak Doc) to get a Doc out of the game.
Zuma, on the other hand, was either scum with him or Town (and thus and unknown role to him--in which case, lynching a Doc would be better).


Does that make sense?

So again, lynching Giraffe first seems far better and makes more sense.

[Idle Thoughts]

To put even more simple: Giraffe had a choice yesterDay with who to lynch. He chose the claimed protection role instead of the unknown player--even going so far as to unvote and vote again to make sure the Weak Doc was the one lynched.

To me, this makes him the most suspicious in my mind..whereas the only thing I'm suspicious of Zuma for is for being absent for awhile and his reasoning for voting on Day One.
It doesn't mean Zuma shouldn't also be taken a look at... just that Giraffe should be higher priority, IMO.

[Romanic]

Yeah, it makes sense Idle. Getting rid of a pro-Town role is a good motivaton.

And I can see Giraffe making this play because he has a good alibi in that he didn't want his top suspects (Zeener and I), to decide who was being lynched.

[moody mitchy]

VOTE BOBARRGH

How comes he's the only one who appears to know BillMc was TOWN ??

[Romanic]

Another thing that's been bugging me is why Giraffe would not have used his power on Night 1.

I understand the answer he gave me last night (Night 2, #41)

I wasn't sure who to block at first, if anyone, and then Night ended before I made a decision either way. (I misremembered how long it was and thought I had another full day to decide.)

I probably wouldn't have blocked anyone, though -- I didn't really get suspicious of you and Zeener until Day 2, so I didn't have an obvious candidate. Plus, in the past two games, people's early voting records have been helpful at sniffing out scum in the later game. So even if I got lucky and blocked a scum vote, that's one less data point for the future, since a vote that doesn't count isn't nearly as clear as one that does.

It makes sense that a Town player would be wary of blocking another player, in case he is Town. Just like some players will be wary to use their vigilante powers early in a game.

But then, if I had his power, I think that I would have blocked someone- To get reactions, to see how my power worked, to prove later that I have this power.

Also Giraffe doesn't strike me as the cautious guy who would be careful with a power like this. Look at how he handled the votes, how he charged at Zenner and me, after we claimed a role. He's not cautious about lynching a claimed Town player, why would he be cautious about vote-blocking one?

Thus I'm not sure if I buy his explanation.

And I think that he might have used his power on Night 1: On peeker or Special Ed, whichever was not killed by the Scum. Three attacks on N1 and only one on N2, there's gotta be one kill that wasn't orchestrated by the mafia.

I agree with Idle, Giraffe is the best lynch for toDay. Too bad I can't vote.

[Trepa Mayfield]

Day 3 End Time has been added to the OP.

Day 3 ends in 4 days, 8 hours and 20 minutes.

Vote Count:

Zuma (3): BobArrgh [Day 3 Post 13], Total Ulla [Day 3 Post 18], Giraffe [Day 3 Post 20]
BobArrgh (1): moody mitchy [Day 3 Post 27]
Giraffe (1): Idle Thoughts [Day 3 Post 3]
Placeholder (1): Zuma [Day 2]

Voting in the Future: None

Voting in the Past: None

Voting from the Future: None

Voting from the Past: Zuma [Day 2]

With these votes, Zuma will be lynched.

[Romanic]

Okay - My vote isn't there. Let's see if I can bank it.

vote player X on Day 4

[Trepa Mayfield]

Day 3 ends in 4 days, 8 hours and 15 minutes.

Vote Count:

Zuma (3): BobArrgh [Day 3 Post 13], Total Ulla [Day 3 Post 18], Giraffe [Day 3 Post 20]
BobArrgh (1): moody mitchy [Day 3 Post 27]
Giraffe (1): Idle Thoughts [Day 3 Post 3]
Placeholder (1): Zuma [Day 2]

Voting in the Future: None

Voting in the Past: None

Voting from the Future: None

Voting from the Past: Zuma [Day 2]

With these votes, Zuma will be lynched.

[Idle Thoughts]

Originally Posted by moody mitchy

VOTE BOBARRGH

How comes he's the only one who appears to know BillMc was TOWN ??

Originally Posted by BobArrgh

Zeener and Bill were both Town, and they both voted for Zuma yesterDay ...

Good catch. That's a very good question.

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by Idle Thoughts

So again, lynching Giraffe first seems far better and makes more sense.

How so? If the primary basis of your suspicion of me is my casting the tie-breaking vote away from zuma, then zuma's alignment is the key to everything.

Lynch me, I flip Town, zuma is still an unknown quantity
Lynch me, I flip Scum, hooray, go ahead and lynch zuma
Lynch zuma, he flips Town: I'm very likely Town
Lynch zuma, he flips scum: bad luck, go ahead and lynch me.

So, in the case where we're both Town, if you kill zuma you have a lot more confidence that the remaining player is Town than if you kill me. Because, simply put, breaking the tie between two Town players would be an unbelievably retarded play for scum to make: when I voted, I was under no real suspicion myself. If I knew the alignment of both zuma and Zeener, why would I do any of what I did on Day 2? It puts me at significant risk of lynching for no gain.

The argument that I'd do this to kill a weak Doctor doesn't really make sense. We've yet to see a vanilla player, so presumably zuma has some sort of power as well: as scum, I'd rather see an unknown power lynched than a weak Doctor, who scum can always Night Kill later. (The protection only delays the kill, right?)

Speaking of which, why are you still alive Idle? Zeener said he protected you Night 1, and you got the "lucky to be alive" PM: shouldn't you have died last Night?

[Idle Thoughts]

As I've already pointed out, Giraffe, if Zuma flips Town, that doesn't mean you're Town at all.
As scum, you would have just gone for the lynch of the known protective role.



And as already been pointed out to you, my lucky to be alive PM, I'm guessing, came from my being lucky...not from being protected.

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by Romanic

It makes sense that a Town player would be wary of blocking another player, in case he is Town. Just like some players will be wary to use their vigilante powers early in a game.

But then, if I had his power, I think that I would have blocked someone- To get reactions, to see how my power worked, to prove later that I have this power.

That's great for you. The situation wasn't as clear to me, having never had a vote-blocking power before, and I wasn't thinking of needing to prove anything (since it either works or it doesn't, and doesn't prove my alignment).

Also Giraffe doesn't strike me as the cautious guy who would be careful with a power like this. Look at how he handled the votes, how he charged at Zenner and me, after we claimed a role. He's not cautious about lynching a claimed Town player, why would he be cautious about vote-blocking one?

I'm glad you're always right with all your votes, must be nice. I am absolutely cautious about lynching claimed powers -- see my unvote of moody on Day 1. But I also don't let a claimed power of marginal benefit to Town keep me from voting someone I think is scum. That is a recipe to let scum run the game, particularly in a game with no evidence of having any vanilla players.

Do you really believe that Town shouldn't vote for anybody who claims a power?

[Romanic]

[QUOTE=Giraffe;553806]

Originally Posted by Romanic

I'm glad you're always right with all your votes, must be nice. I am absolutely cautious about lynching claimed powers -- see my unvote of moody on Day 1. But I also don't let a claimed power of marginal benefit to Town keep me from voting someone I think is scum. That is a recipe to let scum run the game, particularly in a game with no evidence of having any vanilla players.

Do you really believe that Town shouldn't vote for anybody who claims a power?

Obviously not since I kept my vote on Red after he claimed Tracker on Day 1.

I was not blaming the results of your vote (even if yes, I do blame you for lynching Zeener). Here I was pointing that, imo, cautious play with a vote blocking ability doesn't fit with your other actions in this game.

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by Idle Thoughts

As I've already pointed out, Giraffe, if Zuma flips Town, that doesn't mean you're Town at all.
As scum, you would have just gone for the lynch of the known protective role.

Really? That seems like a plausible strategy to you? Putting a scum player's neck on the line solely to lynch a weak Doctor over an unknown Town instead of just Night killing them?

Originally Posted by Idle Thoughts

And as already been pointed out to you, my lucky to be alive PM, I'm guessing, came from my being lucky...not from being protected.

But we know that Zeener did target you with his weak doctor power. And your interpretation of your PM is that you did in fact get targeted for a kill Night 1, but survived it. So why wouldn't that mean it was Zeener who saved you and not your magic luck power?

I'm starting to believe both you and Romanic are scum, playing Town with a nicely convoluted Miller-Mason claim. Your luck power is way over-powered for a Town player: if it reduces scum's chance to night kill you to some unknown random quantity, forcing them to risk wasting a kill if they want to target you. It also supposes three kills on Night 1, at least two of which were scum (since they targeted you and another Town player), which seems wildly unbalanced.

In my short experience, every time a player has claimed an unusually powerful or confusing role, they've been scum. Your Town status especially requires far more unusual conditions: three kills on Night 1, a magic luck power of unknown strength, a weird Mason-Miller setup with no obvious value to Town.

I'd really, REALLY like to see Town lynch Romanic in the near future. If he flips scum, lynch Idle.

[Idle Thoughts]

Looks like someone's skimming (Giraffe).

From Zeener's role (that he posted):

--Power—
Each Night, you may follow someone’s future trail. This will ensure that even if they were mortally wounded, they’ll live to the end of the next Day. Of course, if they are mortally wounded they’ll probably expire as soon as the next Day is over.

Bolding mine.

Said Zeener (in the same post)

Last Night I protected Idle. Unless his as-yet-unknown power allows him to survive toNight unscathed, he'll die at Dusk.

Bolding mine.


So, a few things.
1. Seems to me the power would make me die AT DUSK...I.E. after Day was done. Not after a Night.
2. If that's true, the I'd be dying at the end of THIS Day, since he says I'd survive another Night (the one that just passed) and die at the dusk of this Day.
3. Even if I don't (due to my own power overriding it, or his power just not working;--he was, after all, a WEAK Doc), it would have nothing to do with surviving a NIGHT, so you're trying to put a smudge on me for "surviving a Night" without logic.


Of course you'd like to lynch Romanic..just like you'd like to lynch me.. just like you liked to lynch Zeener when you had your choice. Get the protective role lynched, that's you.

I'm very happy with my vote.

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by Idle Thoughts

So, a few things.
1. Seems to me the power would make me die AT DUSK...I.E. after Day was done. Not after a Night.
2. If that's true, the I'd be dying at the end of THIS Day, since he says I'd survive another Night (the one that just passed) and die at the dusk of this Day.
3. Even if I don't (due to my own power overriding it, or his power just not working;--he was, after all, a WEAK Doc), it would have nothing to do with surviving a NIGHT, so you're trying to put a smudge on me for "surviving a Night" without logic.

I am absolutely working from memory, because I'm lazy, so I apologize for any inaccuracies. But, he protected you Night 1, right? So wouldn't you then die at Dusk the following die, i.e. the end of Day 2 / beginning of Night 2? (Which is what I meant by "died last Night", your Dusk death would presumably be announced at the start of Night.)

Of course, I read his power as player survives the Night they were targeted, but then dies the following Dusk, so if your interpretation is correct, then we indeed don't yet know if your being alive is suspicious. Since I don't think Town should even consider lynching you toDay, we can just table this discussion until toMorrow.

Originally Posted by Idle

Of course you'd like to lynch Romanic..just like you'd like to lynch me.. just like you liked to lynch Zeener when you had your choice. Get the protective role lynched, that's you.

Again, it's odd that you guys seem to think I should somehow just know everyone's alignment. Yes, I was 100% wrong about Zeener. That doesn't mean I'm wrong about Romanic, or about you. And frankly, I find it more than a little odd that you don't seem to even consider the possibility that he's not Town.

I know there's currently uncertainty about my alignment, so I don't necessarily expect Town to take my word for this (although I think my argument is pretty sound on its own). However, once I flip Town, I really really hope Town starts looking more closely at you two.

[Idle Thoughts]

Again, I direct you to his PM:

This will ensure that even if they were mortally wounded, they’ll live to the end of the next Day. Of course, if they are mortally wounded they’ll probably expire as soon as the next Day is over.

Who's to say I was mortally wounded? I must not have been if I'm not dead yet, by your logic, obviously.
Because my luck made me escape it, hence why I got that message.

But by all means, please, continue reaching so hard in your growing desperateness.

[moody mitchy]

Sister Coyote as I protected you... did you recieve any message from the Mod indicating anything?

I'm curious because Zeener Diode said he protected Idle Thoughts and Idle Thoughts says he recieved a message informing him crypticly that he was lucky to be alive...

Giraffe says they vote blocked Romanic and they say they recieved a message... and this targeting has also been proven by the vote tally..

I've tried to put myself into a "what would I do" situation.. as the Cop if we have one....

Night one pointless checking Romanic as they've claimed mason/miller so would return a SCUM result....

Could check me to see if I'm at least TOWN...

Could check Idle Thoughts to see what he turned up... I think that if the Cop had done this and Idle Thoughts had turned SCUM... we might well have heard about it by now...

Which makes me "feel" that Idle Thoughts is most likely TOWN... though I am bugged by the fact that he seems to accept Romanics claim without much questioning.

Night 2 I wonder if Giraffes claim came too late for the Cop to change his choice of target.... if indeed they'd be allowed to do that anyway.

I'm also curious as to how after his claim ... Giraffe got through the Night... but then again SCUM do love a bit of WIFOM...

We can't doubt [B]Giraffes[/B ] power but we can still doubt which side he is on...

Idle Thoughts why did you initialy think that BillMc was only missing ?

[Idle Thoughts]

I thought he was missing because it says, right here:

Originally Posted by Hypnagogic Bonafide

But, when headcount was taken, BillMC was missing. The townsfolk searched his bed, but he wasn't there. He wasn't in his room or the dining room or the vault or the attic or anywhere in the large mansion. How odd. He is not here.

I had never heard of a janitor role before this game.

[Romola]

Originally Posted by moody mitchy

Just a quick thought before I go to work...

What's the possibility of SCUM being able to pull a NK forward ? This might give and explaination of why 2 Night one and one last Night.

BillMc missing...? Idle Thoughts Look again... !!!!!!

Possible Janitor type role inplace ?

I protected Sister Coyote last Night. Seemed as good a choice as any as I'm not getting any real read from them. Also because again... if Idle Thoughts and Romanic are telling the truth.. then I felt SCUM would leave them alone.

I'm suprised that Giraffe is still with us. I thought that his "claim" last Night would have meant he'd been taken out but this could be due to SCUM possibly pulling the Night kill like I said before.

I'd be loathe to vote another "claimed" TOWN power as my record on that hasn't been too hot lately.

I'll have another read later and post some more.

I haven't got far with reading ToDay yet, but I agree that it is feasible that scum can do things like banking night kills or bringing them forward, similarly to what we can do with the votes. So their request to the mod could have been something like 'Kill Bill from Night 6'. If this is the case, we are likely not to find out Bill's alignment and role till the Day that they brought the kill from, thus keeping information from Town. They may have either banked last night's own kill for later, or hopefully had it blocked by a Town power.

[Romola]

Originally Posted by Total Ulla

I think Giraffe's claim is very WiFoU or rather Wine in Front of ME.

The power is IMO very anti-town. I know I can't conclude or assume (*wink* Romanic) that the role is therefore not-town.
But I can't really see what benefit Town can have from this role.
And what also makes me very suspicious is the fact that the power can be "proven".

So if the claim is false and the power doesn't exist:
All Giraffe have to do is claim he targeted a fellow scum and that scum wouldn't vote for a day. This might work for a Day or Two and then we would be able to pick the most or entire Scum team.
Very unlikely.

But if the claim is false but the power is real:
Giraffe would be able to "prove" the claim by stealing the power of a townie and thereby "prove" the claim to some extend.
And I know from past experience that as the game goes by some (yes, that would be me) tend to trust a claim more and more. Because new data shows up all the time and it's easy to let a player slowly more from "unconfirmed with a claim" to "not really confirmed with a claim" to slowly "almost confirmed with a claim".

Of cause it could be that the claim is true:
In with case I don't see the use of it as pro-Town no matter what. Sorry but it's IMO never a good thing to prevent players from voting. We loose data and vote records when it happens. Even if the player not voting is Scum. I think it is better to have the vote in the game where we can hold the player accountable for the vote.

I'm inclined to think the power is probably real, but, like Ulla, I can't really see it as a pro-Town power. Blocking a vote, especially in a game where votes can be marshalled from the future, isn't that powerful, but it would be more useful for scum than Town, i think. I'm suspicious of Giraffe, first of all because of the double vote on Zeener yesterDay, but secondly because of the claim.

[moody mitchy]

Originally Posted by Idle Thoughts

I thought he was missing because it says, right here:

I had never heard of a janitor role before this game.

Now that does surprise me.

[Romola]

I am half inclined to vote Giraffe, just to go

[SisterCoyote]

Originally Posted by moody mitchy

Sister Coyote as I protected you... did you recieve any message from the Mod indicating anything?

No, I did not -- but my role PM also does not say anything about me being "lucky" nor having unspecified powers, as Idle's does.

Originally Posted by Idle Thoughts

Good catch. That's a very good question.

In fact, it's such a good question that I am first going to:



And then I'm going to say that Bob indicated he thought Bill might be Scum because he'd lived so long last Night. Which raises the possibility that Bob is not Scum, but has the ability to kill, and that the Scum Kill from last night was blocked.

NOTE: I am not asking for Bob to verify this at this point, merely offering it up as something to consider.

Wine, anyone? I have some lovely iocaine cheese to go with it...

Originally Posted by Romola

I am half inclined to vote Giraffe, just to go

That's...disturbing.

[SisterCoyote]

Sigh.

[SisterCoyote]

Moody:

We can't doubt Giraffes power but we can still doubt which side he is on...

Why can't we doubt Giraffe's power? Did Romanic vote and I missed it?

[Romanic]

Yes I've voted.

Post #14 Voted Giraffe.
Post #29 My vote doesn't appear in the tally.
Post #30 Tried banking my vote for Tomorrow
Post #31 Still no vote in the tally.