Opioids

[Pencil]

So...

After last years cancer kerfuffle I started thinking back. I've gotten morphine a few times earlier in life, most notably over 40 years ago when my appendix was removed.

I was flying. High as a kite. I'd never felt better nor happier in my life.


It was also a fucking big warning sign, i.e. don't do this for recreational use.

Some 25 years later, I got morphine again, following surgery. Wow.
Morphine is the shit. I'm flying high again. No worries. Life is smoooooth.


And last year, they cut me up from my dick to my ribs [colorectal cancer], I had an epidural pump which eliminated pain --- but I didn't get high.

So this is my question. They gave me OxyContin [drip] which is what I understand is one of the biggest Boogey Men of the opioid crisis. But why would anyone take this and get addicted? Yes - it kills pain. But it doesn't get you high. One might as well pop Tylenol or any other painkiller. I can see addiction stemming from being high.

This is not to disparage anyone. I only want to understand.

[Rat Diva]

Different drugs affect different people in different ways. Some people do get the "life is gooooooooood" effect from Oxy like you get from morphine.

Both of them just about make me throw up my toenails, so I couldn't be an opioid addict if I wanted to

[Solfy]

When MD was 7yrs old she broke her arm badly enough to require surgery. They sent her home a day later with a prescription for oxycodone. She reeeeeeaaaaaally liked it. We weaned her off it as quickly as we could while still managing her pain. Seven years later she has fond memories of it. I feel like that's a similar warning sign for her.

[Glazer]

If you're taking it for legitimate pain for long enough. After the cause of the pain is gone you can still feel the pain just so it can be relived with painkillers. Like House.

[PSXer]

I took oxycodone after I had surgery on my hand. It made me feel good. I would have become addicted if I could have gotten more and not just a couple weeks prescription.

that's my opioid story; I hope you liked it

[Sputnik]

I had some opiated Thai buds once. I found them rather enjoyable in fact.

[krisolov]

I had morphine a couple summers ago when I was in the hospital with diverticulitis. It sure took the pain away and all, but unless I was really, really in pain there's no way I'd want to feel like that. It was useful, it wasn't fun.

Really interesting that people do that for fun, and not in a good way.

[Random Precision]

I had morphine about 40 years ago following knee surgery. My leg would hurt terribly, the nurse would come along and stick a needle in my arm and then I'd float away on a warm pink cloud. I did take that as a warning sign that I should probably avoid opioids in my recreational activities.

Forward to last month and a second knee surgery, I'm given generic Percocet for the pain, a combination of oxycodone and Tylenol. No pink cloud, it barely dulls the pain and it makes it difficult to read or watch anything because my eyes don't track very well. I took the whole prescription, but at the lower recommended dose and have not missed it at all. Ibuprofen has been sufficient after the first 10 days.

What does this mean regarding your questions? I don't know - just another anecdote for the collection? I could've asked the doctor to renew the prescription. I could've had them send me home with Oxycodone and Dilaudin (sp). I didn't because of my earlier experiences with morphine. I am just happy that I don't have the type of chronic pain that would require long term opioids because it would certainly lead to an addiction and I don't need another one of those.

[Detroit Hoser]

Okay, firstly, you didn't have an Oxycontin drip. Oxycontin is time-release oxycodone and available only in pill form, not IV. But oxycodone can be given intravenously and is most likely what you had. But unless you're either in the medical field, or you're a former opiate addict, you're not likely to care much about the distinction.

Different meds hit us differently, true. But when talking about IV opiates hitting us it's importantly to know how they're administered, too. Your morphine was probably pushed; that is, it was given as a bolus in your IV line and pushed into your system rather quickly, probably over about a minute's time (I forget exactly how long.) It can also be diluted and hung as a drip. Obviously you wouldn't be getting it all pretty much at once, like when it's pushed so you're not going to get stoned.

[Helena]

I had morphine and thought I was dying. The world receded until I started vomiting. After that, I didn't feel any pain, at least, but I didn't have a high, either. I never got high from the whopping doses of opioids I was on during my cancer ordeal and surgery. I could've used it! I just got unpleasant hallucinations from Ketamine!

[stormie]

Pain is controlled by stopping the brain from feeling it. Pain can be controlled at the level of the pain sensors, like with a lidocane patch or ice, at the level of the nerves that travel from the pain sensors to the brain, like at the dentist, and at the level of the brain. Some pain killers that affect the brain don't affect the brain's pain control centers. This is why Tylenol is a weak pain medicine with no street value.

Evolutionarily speaking, running and hunting with a wound or broken limb is superimportant to survival. Animals evolved a brain that creates its own opiods and has cells affected by opiods all over the nerves and brain. So while opiod drugs hit the pain control centers hard, they also hit many other brain areas, causing "improved mood and a feeling of well-being" as the medicos say.

When the system is flooded with morphine or oxycontin, it creates more opiod-sensitive cells over a matter of weeks. If the opiates are removed, the natural system doesn't work. Patients can feel even minor pain intensely, and suffer from low mood and a feeling of ill-being. Patients need to be tapered off to avoid withdrawal and the addiction associated with avoiding withdrawal.

It makes me very angry to see how use of effective pain control has swung from attention to addiction to attention to pain control and back. This is a stupidly oversimplistic approach to a complex problem.

[picunurse]

Originally Posted by Pencil

So...

After last years cancer kerfuffle I started thinking back. I've gotten morphine a few times earlier in life, most notably over 40 years ago when my appendix was removed.

I was flying. High as a kite. I'd never felt better nor happier in my life.


It was also a fucking big warning sign, i.e. don't do this for recreational use.

Some 25 years later, I got morphine again, following surgery. Wow.
Morphine is the shit. I'm flying high again. No worries. Life is smoooooth.


And last year, they cut me up from my dick to my ribs [colorectal cancer], I had an epidural pump which eliminated pain --- but I didn't get high.

So this is my question. They gave me OxyContin [drip] which is what I understand is one of the biggest Boogey Men of the opioid crisis. But why would anyone take this and get addicted? Yes - it kills pain. But it doesn't get you high. One might as well pop Tylenol or any other painkiller. I can see addiction stemming from being high.

This is not to disparage anyone. I only want to understand.

Was the drip epidural? If so that's why you didn't/don't fly. I can't speak to the physiology, but epidural pain relief is different from oral or IV.

I've had MS (morphine sulfate) and oxycontin orally and had the same effect. I don't have an addictive personality. I didn't enjoy the feeling, but it was the same with both.

Oh, and the Opioid crisis is not about Oxycontin, it's about heroin. The news media has made it about pain meds. Sure, there are people addicted to Oxy, but there are far more addicted to heroin.

[JackieLikesVariety]

interesting thread - I am posting just to say that. people need to talk about additions more, in general, I think

[stormie]

Weeeellll the medical profession out here has limited prescription of just about every Class I and II pain killer to the point where you might as well just lie down and scream.

[Pencil]

Trying to clarify. I'm only going by [somewhat hazy] memories here.

The morphine I got in '78 and '05 was subcutaneous, i.e. sticking a needle in some fatty tissue, but not a vein. This is what made me feel AWESOME.

What I got last year was an epidural and I could administer it myself, but it was timed to 30 minutes. It did kill the pain, but didn't get me high. I remember looking at the clock on the wall and counting down, because I knew pushing the pump wouldn't do anything at 28 minutes, but when it clicked past that 30 minute mark, I would get some relief. And post surgery I was in PAIN.

I may also be a bit hazy about the substance. I was looking at the plastic IV-bag and reading OxyC... and connected that with all I've read about the opioid crisis in the U.S. which is what prompted me to start this thread.

What I'm trying to ask, from my own experience, is that I don't get how people get addicted to a substance that - to me - only removes pain (and if you're not in pain, does nothing) but doesn't get you high.

n.b. I am not judging anyone. I'm an alcoholic, mainly because it numbs the pain from arthritis and helps me sleep.

[C2H5OH]

Different opioids have different effects on different people. For example, morphine doesn't get me high at all. When I broke my leg I had an IV of morphine and I controlled the dose button. I could have 1 mg every 6 minutes for as long as I could stay awake. Never got high once. Same with Vicodin. Both did wonders for pain, but no high. Percocet gets me high as a kite, but in a very bad way that I wouldn't take if it was free, let alone pay for it. Dilaudid was utter bliss.

I also got Vicodin for the cancer, and again, no high, just good pain relief.

ETA: Percocet contains the same active ingredient as Oxy. I ain't takin' no Oxy, never!

ETAA: Oh, yeah, I also got fentanyl during recovery for getting my IV and stomach ports put in, and that was a very mild version of the percocet high. Not pleasant, but not horrible like the percocet did. I still wouldn't pay to do it recreationally.

[stormie]

Things that make different people's drug experiences good or bad:
How the drug is used
How much is used
Exactly how the chemicals are made and combined
Any other drugs that are being used
The person's unique biochemistry
The person's preferences.

People get addicted to substances that have some effect that they like. Opiates may not have any fun effects for you, but for many people, they do. Heroin feels really nice, I hear.

[Solfy]

Originally Posted by picunurse

Oh, and the Opioid crisis is not about Oxycontin, it's about heroin. The news media has made it about pain meds. Sure, there are people addicted to Oxy, but there are far more addicted to heroin.

AIUI, you're right to say that people are addicted to heroin, but they're starting with oxy. The theory is that doctors have been overprescribing oxy due to pushes from the drug companies. Patients get hooked on oxy, get cut off when their prescription runs out, and turn to heroin in desperation.

[Detroit Hoser]

Opioids are opioids.

Originally Posted by Boozy

When I broke my leg I had an IV of morphine and I controlled the dose button. I could have 1 mg every 6 minutes for as long as I could stay awake. Never got high once.

Again, method of administration matters here. You're not going to "feel" a giant rush with only one milligram per 6 minutes. But the constancy will keep you at a level of "high" you won't necessarily notice. Others might, though.

[Dragonlady]

The Addict says heroin just takes all your problems and bad feelings away.
So, if your life is full of shitty stuff, the reduction of them would be very tempting. He started with speed, at age 8. By 12, his nose bled so badly that his much older stepbrother gave him a needle full of dope. One the he had prepped for himself. 12 year old got WAAAAYYYYYYY high, so stepbrother shot him up with heroin.
The Addict has a lot of shit to hide from in a bag.

[EmilyG]

I had fentanyl for a gastroscopy a few months ago, and that's another drug that's causing a lot of problems on the streets. I read that people taking the drug recreationally (if you want to call it that) take much more than you'd get in a hospital.

I had it intravenously. I didn't feel especially high or happy, and I didn't fall asleep or pass out, but it kept me calm.

[AuntiePam]

The EMT gave me fentanyl when I fell, and like EmilyG, I didn't get high, just calm. But I was calm anyway -- I don't get excited.

I don't know what they gave me in the hospital -- those five days are a blur. I had a broken rib and collarbone, and a small brain bleed -- nothing that would require pain meds. So I don't know why they drugged me up unless it was to keep me quiet.

I've had Vicodin for pain and loved it, but when I took one after the pain was gone, it made me nauseated.

[C2H5OH]

Originally Posted by Detroit Hoser

Opioids are opioids.

Again, method of administration matters here. You're not going to "feel" a giant rush with only one milligram per 6 minutes. But the constancy will keep you at a level of "high" you won't necessarily notice. Others might, though.

Yeah, but exact chemical structure, and a person's individual response to same, also matters. When I broke my leg, I got the same strength percocet as vicodin. I was begging my doc to cancel the percocet and switch to vicodin. It made no difference in pain control, but it made a huge difference in how high I got. And how unpleasant (read: hOOOOOrible) the experience was.

[Detroit Hoser]

Well of course it does. But whatever it is you will feel it a lot harder pushed than dripped.

[stormie]

mmmmmmm
wait, what? me?
of course not.