Yeetmas 4 - Night 3

[Mahaloth]

Bashorian Clement was wrapped. He was the Shelf Elf Godfather. Scum.

Night will last 48 hours until 7 PM Eastern on Saturday, December 31.

[mikomiya]

yay!

im gonna give myself head pats this time, glad to have finally stuck to my guns for once

[raventhief]

Yay!

[Dizzymrslizzy]

Why wasn't Burma wrapped also?

He was at 4 votes with 3 minutes to go?

[Kaiveran]

Am I missing something here? Did another Candidate have to get higher than 4 votes to double dip?

[mikomiya]

yeah, the second wrap only happens if they also have 4 votes kai

[Dizzymrslizzy]

Nice Job Miko.

I still don't see the Swami claim? Can you help a girl out?

[Dizzymrslizzy]

Originally Posted by mikomiya

yeah, the second wrap only happens if they also have 4 votes kai

Burma had 4 votes with 3 mintues to go.

[Kaiveran]

Originally Posted by Dizzymrslizzy

Why wasn't Burma wrapped also?

He was at 4 votes with 3 minutes to go?

I actually unvoted Burma technically but raventhief had 4 votes also, unless I'm terribly mistaken.

[raventhief]

Another had to get four. I thought I was dead. I'm still surprised I'm not. But it's a Good Thing (tm) that I did wander away. If I had come back earlier I works have unvoted ama then maybe we wouldn't have the de-shelved elf

[Kaiveran]

Mind you, this is still a very positive result. With both factions having flipped members the game opens up a bit, and we shut down BCs last minute claim chaos immediately, so the Vidge remains unexposed and can make up for the deficit as they please.

Also Renata confirmed Not-Elf.

[Dizzymrslizzy]

Originally Posted by Kaiveran

I actually unvoted Burma technically but raventhief had 4 votes also, unless I'm terribly mistaken.

BC pulled his 4th vote off of Raven and put it on Burma before the timer. That put Burma at 4, BC at 4 and Raven at 3.

Now given the quickness that BC jumped at moving to Burma when I suggested it, It seems confirmed that Burma isn't an Elf.... I'm glad I saved Raven from being wrapped...You better be town lady!

[raventhief]

[QUOTE="Vote Counting Robot"]
Bashorian Clement (4): Burma Shave (43), mikomiya (140), raventhief (170), A Poor Shepherd Boy (180)
Raventhief (3): Swammerdami (49)[104], Swammerdami (104), Renata (168), TexCat (186), Bashorian Clement (207)[214]
Burma Shave (3): Bashorian Clement (33)[40], Kaiveran (107)[219], LightFoot (110), raventhief (155)[170], Dizzymrslizzy (208), Bashorian Clement (214)
Mendie Taoma (1): JackieLikesVariety (62)
Jackielikesvariety (1): Mendie Taoma (61)
Texcat (0): Dizzymrslizzy (165)[208]
Renata (0): LightFoot (38)[109], TexCat (47)[106]
Swammerdam (0): Dizzymrslizzy (59)[165]
Dizzymrslizzy (0): Swammerdami (9)[49]
Miko (0): Dizzymrslizzy (16)[59]
A Poor Shepherd Boy (0): Bashorian Clement (40)[207], Renata (70)[168], mikomiya (71)[140], Swammerdami (104)[104]

So this is where we ended up.

[raventhief]

Originally Posted by Dizzymrslizzy

BC pulled his 4th vote off of Raven and put it on Burma before the timer. That put Burma at 4, BC at 4 and Raven at 3.

Now given the quickness that BC jumped at moving to Burma when I suggested it, It seems confirmed that Burma isn't an Elf.... I'm glad I saved Raven from being wrapped...You better be town lady!

I am

[mikomiya]

Originally Posted by Dizzymrslizzy

Nice Job Miko.

I still don't see the Swami claim? Can you help a girl out?

It was one of Swam's first posts on day 2 - maybe the actual first post. While everyone was breaking down reasons why scum may have killed Gnarly or what scenarios exist for Guiri to be alive, Swam posted this:

Town Vig killing the Lurker seems like normal play to me. But both Scum kills hit protected targets. They either targeted whoever guiri was protecting, or -- unlikely -- targeted the other scum team's Godfather.

Scum was much more likely to target guiri than Kai. Especially if their Godfather was acting suspicious deliberately in an effort to attract Investigation. Does anyone fit that bill?

Guiri knew he was the likely target and may have self-protected. (It's normal for Town Doc to lie about his Protectee, no?) He'll have a tougher decision to make toNight.

On my reread I noted that it's Swam explaining who they killed (the Lurker), defending it from someone else questioning why that would be a town vig shot), and then reiterates that both scum hit protected targets. Only the vig would know this. Then they voted Red on day 2 and Red died overnight and they say in their post on day 3

Red over-reached and Wrapping him became easy.

Only the vig wrapped Red and Swammerdami is explaining who and why they shot again just like day 2



When BC claimed vig a 4-4-3 or 4-3-3 I claimed on Swammerdamis behalf because they aren't around and I was sure I was right and BC was fake claiming.

Burma saying the vig shouldn't counterclaim makes me feel like I messed it up for them though so if so I apologize

[Dizzymrslizzy]

okay nice, Kai did get the unvote in with a min to spare! Nice job Town at bamboozling BC

[Dizzymrslizzy]

Originally Posted by mikomiya

It was one of Swam's first posts on day 2 - maybe the actual first post. While everyone was breaking down reasons why scum may have killed Gnarly or what scenarios exist for Guiri to be alive, Swam posted this:



On my reread I noted that it's Swam explaining who they killed (the Lurker), defending it from someone else questioning why that would be a town vig shot), and then reiterates that both scum hit protected targets. Only the vig would know this. Then they voted Red on day 2 and Red died overnight and they say in their post on day 3

Only the vig wrapped Red and Swammerdami is explaining who and why they shot again just like day 2



When BC claimed vig a 4-4-3 or 4-3-3 I claimed on Swammerdamis behalf because they aren't around and I was sure I was right and BC was fake claiming.

Burma saying the vig shouldn't counterclaim makes me feel like I messed it up for them though so if so I apologize

See I don't read that as a claim at all.

I came to the same conclusion when D2 opened. That the vig shot Gnarly for lurking, and that the two scum kills got doc blocked.

This group likes to shoot lurkers, and wrap lurkers. It's like a rabid dog. Lurkers = scum.

[raventhief]

Originally Posted by mikomiya

It was one of Swam's first posts on day 2 - maybe the actual first post. While everyone was breaking down reasons why scum may have killed Gnarly or what scenarios exist for Guiri to be alive, Swam posted this:



On my reread I noted that it's Swam explaining who they killed (the Lurker), defending it from someone else questioning why that would be a town vig shot), and then reiterates that both scum hit protected targets. Only the vig would know this. Then they voted Red on day 2 and Red died overnight and they say in their post on day 3

Only the vig wrapped Red and Swammerdami is explaining who and why they shot again just like day 2



When BC claimed vig a 4-4-3 or 4-3-3 I claimed on Swammerdamis behalf because they aren't around and I was sure I was right and BC was fake claiming.

Burma saying the vig shouldn't counterclaim makes me feel like I messed it up for them though so if so I apologize

I had the same thought about swammi, about the wrapping him was easy - but I also discarded it because he did vote for red so he may have regretting to his vote decision became easy.

[raventhief]

May have been referring to, not regretting! Stupid Swype type.

[mikomiya]

I am going to hope that you two are right and I did not out the vig then. The result ended up being good so I may have just uh, stumbled into things but luck > skill any day lol

[Kaiveran]

Aye.

As toNight is almost certain to be my last hurrah, I'm going to try my utmost to be useful and do a whole game retrospective, using player interactions+ what we know now. Don't want y'all to get too bamboozled in my absence.

For now I gotta work

[mikomiya]

I look forward to it Kai!

[A Poor Shepherd Boy]

Rah.

[A Poor Shepherd Boy]

[mikomiya]

Does anyone have any new years traditions?

Back when I was a little kid me and my cousin wanted to take part in the whole "eat black eyed peas and spinach on new years for good luck and money in the new year" tradition our family always did. But at the time we were picky eaters and didn't like those, so my aunt got us a scoop of mint chocolate chip and a scoop of cookies n cream ice cream so we could join in. It was really silly, but all these years later even though I enjoy spinach/bep I still do a scoop of each lol

[Mendie Taoma]

OOG

Work has become more "Work". And by that, I mean to say the "culture", not that we even have one, the level of actual work on the job, if anything, has dropped off. [Retail cashier, Not That Home Improvement warehouse, but their competitor. Not that I will name names.] Pretty much after Black Friday, we are dead in the water until prep for spring.

My immediate boss / supervisor, and a head cashier, came around on among other ludicrous demands, finally came up with a new cell phone policy. I could not tell you when the last one was written, or even when it was even enforced. It was not uncommon to see other cashiers streaming episodes of The Office, or even, more recently, the World Cup Qaatar. on their own phone, while at their stations.


That to say, while Im trying to wean myself off of my phone, still, [I have packages that I am still tracking. Admittedly, they are all for me, or should I say, Mendie, in service of my transitioning. Or at least, out experimentation]

That I feel like, I haven't given this game much attention. At all. Not that I could, having the phone out on my register* is going to be a no go. I can't read the posts, and cogitate as I normally do. [Yes, I do actually think about my "moves" in the game. always have. A lot. What happens after that, is another story.]

* They came to me with the new policies, and wanted me to sign. "I see that this is a new cell phone policy. As this is a new policy, can I please put my phone back into my pocket, before I sign it?" lolz lolz. [[Yes, this happened, and they let me do so, without consequence.]]

** Another policy, that is absolutely bonkers, is that we are supposed to have [at least] one completed and submitted credit card application, from a customer, each shift. One credit card a day. On a card that has 26.99 APR. In a pool of customers that either already have our card [if not multiple] and our competitors card. Also, Veterans still enjoy a 5% discount everyday. --- One of the key selling points of getting our credit card.

So, you know, playing at work is less appealing now than ever. Speaking of unappealing, there is a conversation here about the restrooms at work, that, well, Yeah.

--

I think I fully checked out of this game back at Pizza spamming on day one. After that, apparently, the game came to a head, and there were a lot of feelings. To the point that the mod had to step in.

Like, I was already out of this game, BEFORE THAT.

And I'm just not sure I can climb back into it.

[LightFoot]

D`1

Originally Posted by Vote Counting Robot

Askthepizzaguy (5): Halfrize (24)[168], guiri (74)[543], Red Skeezix (124), Mendie Taoma (127), Swammerdami (140)[723], Pleonast (298)[434], TexCat (443), Askthepizzaguy (518)[688],Pleonast (678), guiri (700)

Texcat (3): Dizzymrslizzy (563), Kaiveran (636),Askthepizzaguy (689)

A Poor Shepherd Boy (3): JackieLikesVariety (426), Pleonast (434)[678], Renata (578), guiri (630)[672], Burma Shave (634)

Pleonast (2): Renata (146)[274], A Poor Shepherd Boy (561), mikomiya (654)

Red Skeezix (1): Bashorian Clement (30), A Poor Shepherd Boy (108)[122]

Mahaloth (0): Mahaloth (15)[15]

Kaiveran (0): Mendie Taoma (4)[33], Halfrize (590)[617]

. guiri (0): Bashorian Clement (7)[30], Askthepizzaguy (97)[517], A Poor Shepherd Boy (122)[554], Renata (274)[548], Halfrize (318)[355]
Jackielikesvariety (0): Burma Shave (81)[246]
Apoorshepherdboy (0): Renata (548)[578]
Dizzymrslizzy (0): Halfrize (224)[315], mikomiya (341)[654], Halfrize (355)[537]
Askthepizzaguyforpineapple (0): guiri (672)[700]

D2

Originally Posted by Vote Counting Robot

Halfrize (6): Pleonast (49)[92], guiri (58), Pleonast (92), Burma Shave (104)[171], TexCat (183), Red Skeezix (216), raventhief (234), Burma Shave (242)

Red Skeezix (3): Bashorian Clement(168), Swammerdami (218), A Poor Shepherd Boy (220)

Renata (2): Mendie Taoma (102), JackieLikesVariety (158)

Burma Shave (2): Swammerdami (40)[128], Halfrize (76), Swammerdami (128)[218], LightFoot (138)

Swammerdami (1): Renata (93), Red Skeezix (95)[190]
Miko (1): Dizzymrslizzy (182)
A Poor Shepherd Boy (1): mikomiya (236)

Texcat (0): Renata (56)[93]
Mikomiya (0): Red Skeezix (69)[95], [color=red]Red Skeezix [/color(190)[216]
Pleonast (0): mikomiya (79)[195], Bashorian Clement(83)[168], Dizzymrslizzy (144)[182], A Poor Shepherd Boy (162)[178]
Jackielikesvariety (0): Burma Shave (173)[242]
Red Skeezix (0): mikomiya (195)[236]

D
D3

Originally Posted by Vote Counting Robot

Bashorian Clement (4): Burma Shave (43), mikomiya (140), raventhief (170), A Poor Shepherd Boy (180)

Raventhief (3): Swammerdami (49)[104], Swammerdami (104), Renata (168), TexCat (186), Bashorian Clement (207)[214]

Burma Shave (3): Bashorian Clement(33)[40], Kaiveran (107)[219], LightFoot (110), raventhief (155)[170], Dizzymrslizzy (208), Bashorian Clement(214)

Mendie Taoma (1): JackieLikesVariety (62)
Jackielikesvariety (1): Mendie Taoma (61)

Texcat (0): Dizzymrslizzy (165)[208]
Renata (0): LightFoot (38)[109], TexCat (47)[106]
Swammerdam (0): Dizzymrslizzy (59)[165]
Dizzymrslizzy (0): Swammerdami (9)[49]
Miko (0): Dizzymrslizzy (16)[59]
A Poor Shepherd Boy (0): Bashorian Clement(40)[207], Renata (70)[168], mikomiya (71)[140], Swammerdami (104)[104]

I think this is correct

[LightFoot]

Now perhaps we have more to work with.

eod was busy I don't have much time - the festivities will begin shortly
My New Years 'tradition' Is a road trip to Jackpot Nevada with my 'sister' [different parents]
We got in last night after an all day drive , then proceeded to drink and gamble til midnight.
today is another day of the same

I am thinking about the game and plan to check in here with thoughts when I can
_{not a cop out- just letting you know}

[Burma Shave]

New Year's traditions, I somehow do a different thing every year. As a kid we did the black-eyed pea thing (no spinach though).

But for a few years when I worked at a newspaper, while other staff writers were doing "best of" lists, I did the "great disappointments" list. I still do it, without putting too much energy into it, for the entertainment of people I email/text with, and Twitter.

My list so far, of Great Disappointments of 2022:

The Supreme Court
Windows 11
Covid vaccines
Joe Biden (not partisan, the prez is usually on there)
Avatar II
Cryptocurrency
My personal failure to take 10,000 steps a day

(I also did a "psychic predictions for the year" list. I racked my brain for the most outrageous and/or hilarious things I could think of [like, "In honor of all the pollution, Red Rocks will be renamed Fluorescent Green Rocks" and "To increase ridership RTD will serve coffee and donuts on all lines"]--and some of them actually came to pass (but not Red Rocks).)

FAKE EDIT: WHY I AM GETTING 403 FORBIDDEN ERROR WHEN I TRY TO PUT MY LITTLE DRIVE-BY IN HERE????? WHY???

[Dizzymrslizzy]

Idk. I’m very thankful for my Covid Vaccines and boosters! I’m glad I didn’t get seriously sick with the amount of medical issues I have!

[Burma Shave]

Originally Posted by Dizzymrslizzy

Idk. I’m very thankful for my Covid Vaccines and boosters! I’m glad I didn’t get seriously sick with the amount of medical issues I have!

Yeah, I almost left that one out (for here). Glad it helped you. Opinions differ on what constitutes a disappointment. But IMO going from "This will stop Covid in its tracks and it will go away forever and the whole world will rejoice" to "Your symptoms will be milder" is pretty disappointing.

[JackieLikesVariety]

Burma Shave, I can only post on certain Giraffe threads so we'll see if this is one of them. I can't post any emojis! WTF! cranky face!

[LightFoot]

I am here-I MAY have been drinking all day anyone here to chat

[raventhief]

Tentatively tiptoes in....

[Mahaloth]

Originally Posted by Dizzymrslizzy

Idk. I’m very thankful for my Covid Vaccines and boosters! I’m glad I didn’t get seriously sick with the amount of medical issues I have!

I had Covid two months ago and thankfully, it was very mild. I would have only taken one day off work for it had I not known it was Covid. Took three days to get it negative again, but it was extremely mild. I credit my vaccinations for sure. It was like a mild cold.

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by raventhief

Tentatively tiptoes in....

I won't bite

[raventhief]

Lol I was concerned that the board would need with me. I see that there are some little glitches, and when I tried to post an emoji earlier it went...poorly.

[Dizzymrslizzy]

Yep I can’t log in with tap stalk at all! Stinks!!!

[LightFoot]

I miss late night bs talkers - but I haven't been able to do it myself for a while either

[LightFoot]

one of the primary themes of this game seems to be the number of players that are disenchanted and therefore disconnected from it.

I have merely been otherwise engaged.
Like others have said I feel bad not giving it the attention it deserves.

Posting emojis is denied= interesting glitch

[Burma Shave]

The board just failed to let me p*st a p*st with the word "p*st" in it.

I could put in one emoji though

But not my little car or the Rebo one

[Burma Shave]

post

[Burma Shave]

Spamming the thread to check glitches!

Will post more later concerning the game.

Hmm, seems fixed now

[Kaiveran]

Oh boy.

Forum having issues while I have 4-ish hours to marathon this whole game.

We'll see how that turns out.

[Burma Shave]

So first of all I’m very pleased that my intuition was correct and I bagged a scum! I mean, not just me. But I was complaining earlier about no one paying attention o my posts and now I think maybe someone did.

FWIW I go more on vibes and gut and then go back and test it with some of the known scumtells and some I’ve observed (my scum-hunting secrets). A ping, I think you guys,, most of you, know what I mean. But it’s mostly gut and I had a strong feeling about Bash from the first. As to the link I think I saw between Mendie and Bash, well, that is one of those things I can’t explain, because it’s hard to explain a vibe. It’s like when you work retail for any length and you know immediate whether a person (1) is gonna have you pull out a bunch of stuff, ask if you have it in a different color or size or “something like this but not this” or maybe just finger the merchandise endlessly, (2) actually buy something, or (3) shoplift.

All this by way of explaining why I still like Mendie for Elk, despite his “cop me” statement. Bashorian made a post saying he still couldn’t understand what Mendie was saying even after somebody explained it to him. I have no idea what he meant because I haven’t seen anybody explaining Mendie’s posts, and I see no good reason for him to have made that. It’s like the so-called question he asked her and she never answered it. I couldn’t find that question and it seems neither could Mendie.

The EoD shenanigans made me look hard at dizzy and conclude that she is just town. Her behavior through the game has been very anti-town at times, but that doesn’t mean she is scum. I can elaborate but this is long enough. But the flip made me reevaluate, or not so much the flip but everything surrounding it. Still suspicious of Jackie, tExcat. APSB may have snuggled me but I like being ssnuggled and it might have worked. Dizzy’s hard defense of and refusal to vote for raventhief was suspicious, but that only makes raventhief scum if she is scum with Dizzy and I think Dizzy is not scum. Gonna table Swammi for now but he’s been scumreading everyone I think is town (except APSB for awhile).

Fake edit: Hoorayi, I can post! should i try another smiley?

[Kaiveran]

Originally Posted by Kaiveran

Y'all better use this after I'm gone.

12 LIVING (w/Claims & Results)

1. Mendie Taoma
3. Lightfoot
4. Kaiveran - Cop
5. A Poor Shepherd Boy
8. Dizzymrslizzy
10. raventhief
11. Texcat
14. Renata – Town Result. Confirmed Not-Elf
15. JackieLikesVariety
16. mikomiya
18. Burma Shave
19. Swammerdami

7 DEAD

2. guiri – Town Doc, N2
6. Askthepizzaguy – Mariah Doc, D1
7. Pleonast – Vanillager, N2
9. Red Skeezix – Mariah Backup Doc, N2
12. Halfrize – Vanillager, D2
13. Bashorian Clement – Elf Godfather, D3
17. gnarlycharlie – Vanillager, N1 (probably Vidge shot)

-------------

So I've been called in an hour early. I may not finish my read, with Cycle 3 and perhaps even the latter end of Cycle 2 as the likely casualties.

I will post what I have to post in small-ish pieces, because finagling with char limits is an awkward time-waster for me.

I'm also gonna try to follow the advice I gave to Mendie (godspeed) in that I'm gonna be reading around Pizza most of the time, unless there are unusually forthcoming interactions to read into.

Okay, off to the races.

Whoops wrong thread.

[Kaiveran]

So I tend to analyse interactions comparatively using a 2-axis system:

Attack: asserts or suggests a player's alignment is anti-town.
Defend: asserts suggests a player's alignment is pro-town.
Concur: follows, promotes, and/or advocates for a player's ideas
Oppose: defies, discredits, and/or advocates against a player's ideas.

It just occured to me that this isn't a word processor and this color scheme is confusing here, so I will not use it and will just color the posts instead. I will however use the single letter abbreviations for them (A/D/C/O).

[[[searching for first sincere-ish statement...]]]

---------------

Originally Posted by Pleonast

Mine was in the in box, but it looks legit.

I am not the Cop. The Cop should claim by the end of Day Two at the latest, if the Doc is still alive. Even waiting that long has risks, since it means the Cop could be Night-One-killed by chance. There are no role blockers in this game.

I am also not the Vig. The Vig should only kill someone who is assuredly scum, either as revealed by the Cop or if Town wraps the wrong half of a pair of conflicting claims. Do not take the chance of killing the Cop. It has happened before; don't be the one who does it again. Please consider that Night-killing teammates is the antithesis of team play.

Yeah, yeah, you don't want to be told how to play. But these rules make some actions very helpful and others very harmful. Play the game we're in.

Negative Claims (Cop, Vidge) - Theory/Philosophy
~
Well, he didn't lie, did he? I'd speculate on trying to draw a kill for the Doc, but that's beside the point innit?

I suppose if there are subsequent reactions to this by known scum, it could yield some interesting data. It could be slightly different to a "normal" game, because "unknown alignment" to a BG no longer means "town" exclusively, it could also mean ScumB. But I don't think they will be too overt about that this early in the game.

Originally Posted by Pleonast

Plurality vote in this game, and almost always in others.

This is an important bit of information. If a Scum player is alive at the end of the game, they've won. Staying alive is their goal. A Town player can be alive at the end of the game and still lose. It's useful for Town to stay alive, but it's not their goal. Thus, Scum players tend to try harder to stay alive than Town.

Theory
Low O -> Shepherd (correction/factual) | Low C -> Shepherd (explication)

I believe I had previously misinterpreted this post as solely negative towards Shep. My B – obviously it was just an attempt to find footing and get people broadly on the same page. Hope we can do you proud, comrade. o7

Originally Posted by Red Skeezix

Got my PM. Just read the rules. so there's that.

(snipped)

I consider this to be poor advice. It's not anti-team to uncover information in the game. It's pro-scum to keep information unverifiable. The vig is better at generating reliable and actionable information than the cop. Think about it, all info that the vig reveals is revealed to all, and is without question. In this game: If a vig hits scum, then great; if a vig hits town then we know that person was town and we get an extra wrap for the next day. The opportunity for more wraps is better, as I see it since it will eliminate the need to play the counter claim game, just wrap 'em both. We become an unbeatable townie when we have an overabundance of information. I'm not saying the vig should fire completely indiscriminately, but I would rather the vig use their ability to play the game strategically and generate actionable information within the game when opportunity arises, rather than as some would suggest only focus on killing scum.

Theory/Philosophy
High O -> Pleo

This appears to be Red's first substantive posts. Notice how heated things get immediately in response to a cautious Vidge philosophy.

Of course, there is a lot of benign variation as to the Vigilante's theory of utility, and they do generate lots of visible information and give us more wraps in town hands. The problem is that not all of this information is really actionable – there are good and bad kills in any situation. If you're gonna kill and flip someone town, isn't it better to do this to some lurker nobody could sort, instead of an active and credible person that is already consensus town? But there's no indication that these considerations are near Red's mind here. The gist of the post is "more kills good", and he hedge at the end about "not firing indiscriminately" does little to refactor any of this in.

This is a sneaky way to steer the game towards maximum damage as Pizza would put it, and it's immediacy suggests to me that this is a core element of Red's scumplay, that could possibly bleed out into the rest of Mariahs via collaboration.

Originally Posted by guiri

I don’t think the issue is vigging Town in general, it’s vigging one of the town powers by mistake, especially the cop, which happened to me quite recently.

Recent Citations
Mid O -> Red

Not sure there's much to read into here.

Originally Posted by TexCat

And the Doc can protect the Cop every night. So it makes sense for the Cop to claim and get protected.

Theory/Philosophy
Mid-High C? -> Pleo

Idk, pretty empty +1 here from TexCat. Sure, it's technically an explication of sorts but I feel this sitch is pretty common knowledge across the Mafiasphere.

The thing about being revealed from the outset, as this doublet of posts goaded me into doing, is that the scum get the maximum amount of time to plan your demise. And I fear that might've led Pizza to guiri. He's one of the best Blue-sniffers I've witnessed. So slight Mariah-lean here I guess.

Originally Posted by Red Skeezix

I mean it stinks when a vig hits a power role, but it's going to happen. It's not the end of the world, we don't need power roles to win this game. But asking the vig never to shoot except under very narrow circumstances (settling a false claim, or only if you're 100% sure their scum) is leaving information unexposed. By that same logic we should only wrap people who we are 100% sure are scum, which is nonsense. And the idea that team killing is the antithesis of team play is equally nonsense. We don't win if we don't risk team killing. We don't win if we don't generate information, and not making plays to generate more reliable information is wasting agency. So, like i said, i wouldn't shoot indiscriminately, but i would soundly ignore any advice that says don't shoot unless you are 100% certain it's scum.

Theory/Philosophy
High O -> Pleo

Continues to beat the maximum damage drum. Still no indication of any situational concerns, or optimizing kills, etc.

I don't remember if you ever caught onto Red later, Pleo, but if you did, good show.

Originally Posted by Bashorian Clement

(sic)

(/sic)

we we we

VOTE, Scumtell
High A -> Red

The Pizzatells do abide...it's just that here, it's scumA calling out scumB on one of them – correctly!

This is what I don't wan't y'all to forget: unlike a normal game, scumhunting coming from scum itself has a decent chance of being genuine.

There is absolutely no shame in, say, citing one scum's reasoning against another scum candidate in the future, as long as that reasoning holds up to scrutiny.

Originally Posted by Pleonast

It only happens when the Vig plays poorly by shooting without knowing.

Exactly--we don't need the Vig shooting to win the game.

Theory/Philosophy, Getting Serious
High O -> Red

This is where the other shoe drops I think. Great job teasing out the hypocrisy with that last (why is relying on other Blues bad, but relying on the Vidge is a-okay?) although from a peek it doesn't seem to be followed up with.

Originally Posted by Red Skeezix

Please explain to me how casting the deciding vote or making the most compelling argument against someone that results in their ultimate wrapping is substantively different than pulling the trigger as the vig. Because from where i sit, its seems to be the same outcome derived from the same information with the same potential consequences. And the only difference i can see is that scum get more of a say in who gets wrapped than who gets vigged.

Getting Serious
High O -> Pleo

Notice how that 2nd point Pleo made – the one that basically blows up Red's whole argument – goes completely unaddressed. Could point to a tendency to run/shift focus in order to dodge threats.

Originally Posted by A Poor Shepherd Boy

I humbly support this plan.

Theory/Philosophy
Mid C? -> Texcat, perhaps Pleo by association

An idle +1 to stack on TexCat's.

I always get the heebie-jeebs when I see two people technically interacting, but it's not about each other at all, especially if it piggybacks off a town post. Even as early game as this, it seems to signal that the people involved are already known quantities to each other, and we know what that typically means.

There's only 1 Mariah left though, so this would only be Elf-indicative if anything. Subject to further investigation.

Originally Posted by Pleonast

The Daily Wrap is a collective and public process by which Town can evaluate each other and Scum to solve the game. It is the game; you know, the whole "we don't need power roles to win this game". It's so much more than an alignment reveal.

The Vig kill of Townie consists of "oops, some Townie decided to kill their teammate without warning". Other than the alignment reveal, we get nothing useful.

~
High O -> Red

Pleo kinda gets it here, but seems to chalk it up to banal differences in approach.

Not much to say here otherwise.

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

That is a great idea, and I endorse it wholeheartedly.

This is all I saw, and just +1 to this. A lot.

~
High C -> Halfrize

So Pizza is regularly enigmatic, but from what I know of him this might be initializing the pocketing process (or snuggling over here, I think) which is a big part of how he builds staying power as scum.

Originally Posted by Mendie Taoma

This strikes me as "leashing the vig". I was all set to explain the concept of leashing the vig, and then explain all the pitfalls, and setbacks.

And then I see no less than Pizza in here, championing it.

Or, was this your "I'm not even town" affected motivation?

I mean, I can expect the newcomer to .... discover and put forward plans to leash.

I just don't get where and how Pizza agrees to it out of hand.

~
High O -> Pizza

So (correct me if I'm wrong, @Mendie_Taoma) the unspoken concern here seems to be "leashing the vig, even in a very loose and non-committal suggestion-box way, opens the way for scum to jam up the works with plenty of 'unexpected protection = scum' whyfoam, b/c they now have a limited amount of Doc targets to pick from."

Which I suppose is a pretty towny concern in itself, if easily actable (everyone is a bit sus of pizza and it's easy to be oppositional there.) But the fact that it goes unspoken, and that she uses the opportunity to try and get a straight story from Pizza himself, seems like more than a Level 1 townie move.

At the very least, it's negative Mariah points.

Originally Posted by Halfrize

If pizza agrees to my plan, it must be good.

Also realistically only the vig can decide what they want to do, regardless of what we are all saying. We can only provide input and be heard.

Self-Boost, Mediator
~

The pocketing worked at least a little bit, but finally, someone said it.

Originally Posted by Dizzymrslizzy

Vig is a tricky role.

I will never ever support leashing the Vig and the one time I was Vig, yes I shot Guiri who was acting shady as hell.

Town powers need to work with town not against town.

#SorryNotSorry. I would have taken that shot again if I had the chance 9/10 times.

~
High O -> Pizza/Halfrize by implication? Low C -> Mendie by implication?

I hesitate to call this "Town" just yet, but this is what a healthy disagreement with the suggestion box shindig looks like. There is a lack of agenda here, but that could be because a scum!Lizzy's agenda wasn't solid yet, and/or didn't involve much planning around the Vigilante in particular.

Maaaaybe a smidgen of anti-Mariah points, given than Pizza is the dominant party on that side.

[Burma Shave]

For legal purposes this post is FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY. Disclaimer: You may or may not find it entertaining. The poster takes no responsibility for your reaction.

Also, it’s a week late. Xmas eve I spent 7 straight hours in the kitchen. Cook, clean, cook, clean. With only a break to scrabble together and wrap a gift for an unexpected guest (my family puts the mess in Christmas)

Puppy It’s Cold Outside
Doggerel for a dog and a (human)

Let’s go for a walk (But puppy we’ll freeze out there)
At least down the block (It’s zero degrees out there!)
I’ll pee on that tree (And then I’ll have to break you free)
You surely must have seen this coming (Why don’t we have dog indoor plumbing?)
I’m glad my coat’s so warm and furry (Mine’s not, and so I wish you would hurry!)
It’s really quite nice out here (I’ll slip on the ice out here)
There’s stuff to do out here (I’m turning blue out here)
I’ll go up this hill, and poop at the top (oh no not that it's steep please stop)
I loved the way the snow makes scent linger (I hate that I cannot feel my fingers)
(It’s time to go in)
BOTH
(‘Cause puppy/human it’s cold…out…side)


And my slightly rude signoff, also a week out of date

Fuck Valentine’s Day MERRY CHRISTMAS Kill Columbus Day

Happy New Year ..[fireworks]

[Kaiveran]

Fucked this one up a bit, but time is of the essence so deal w/it

Originally Posted by Mendie Taoma

We got a live one here folx.

Let's not mess it up.

Unless Halfrize is already serving wine.

~
Mid-High O -> Halfrize, Pizza by association

That's a good way to play scum though – get at least one "live one" in the town that carries the bad decisions for you.

But for real tho, I'm sure Mendie is cognizant of most-if-not-all the Pizza-tactics that I am. So I'm not quite sure what to make of this post in retrospect, but whether town or other-scum she would have an interest in not letting it snowball. To challenge Pizza's attempt at asserting any kind of dominance over the game. So I think this is somewhat unpairing between Mendie/Pizza.

Originally Posted by Halfrize

Should I start to find wine to swallow? I'm either doing something right, or I'm doing something completely wrong and I can't tell which of the two i am doing.

Questioning.
~

You did your best, comrade. That's top honors.

Originally Posted by A Poor Shepherd Boy

The vig can kill whomever they want, and the Doc can protect whomever. But hopefully there are reasons for both such that Town is not so polarized.

~
~

What a wishy-washy nothing of a post. Too generic to make any team assumptions, but those aren't as necesssary as a singleball game and yeah, NAGL. I don't see the Day 1 liveliness others are apparently seeing, at least in terms of actual interaction posts

Originally Posted by mikomiya

Is this a concern you really have? It didn't cross my mind that a vig and a doctor would be targeting within the same pool of people.

~
High O -> Halfrize, implied A as well?

I mean this is obviously misguided now, and there's always wild shots, but miko makes an exceleent point given that shooting wild has been a foremost concern of town counter-advocacy.

I could also be reading too much into it and it's a genuine request for comment, but on tone read this is typically indicative of suspicion.

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Why are you being performative in this post?

Shady
Mid A -> Mendie

This is a weird one to read into because we all know that Pizza will bus and or get bussed without remorse. He is always playing against analyisis post facto.

But I will refer back to my previous feels of unpairing Mendie/Pizza, and building of that...I feel like if he truly had something convincing here he would be more gassed about it. Or, he would wait and try to build a more convincing sales pitch. This seems a little lukewarm, like it's an interaction there just to be on the board, and not part of the overarching plan.

Call it split-strategy if you like (i.e different approaches to different scumbuds), but have an actual case for it.

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

I like this take whether it ends up being true or not, because it reads like a genuine attempt at solving. "Like" meaning I think it comes from villagers more often.

~
Mid D -> mikomiya

Is it strategic snuggling of a townie? Is it split-strategy positioning like I mentioned above, despite the fact that I currently read miko town and have a hard time thinking otherwise?

Who knows! But I feel like there should be a bit more oomph to it. Pizza has been trying (mostly unsuccessfully) to tone himself down so this might have been that effort showing through before it got obliterated by the guiri thunderdome.

Originally Posted by guiri

That's a very reasonable stance.

This exchange feels weird:


Meeko called it out here:


Pizza's cheerleading just feels out of place, the suggestion is fine, and common, initial thought is snuggling or spotlighting townie behavior in a scum buddy, not something I would expect so blatantly from ATPG but it pings enough.

Fair enough.

VOTE, Casework
Mid A -> Pizza, Low C -> Lizzy?

So obviously now in retrospect, this was Guiri McTowny Townface looking for a "good enough" suspect to really dig into D1 with, and he happened to be right. The fan that launched a thousand shits (did I use that joke already?).

What I'd like to know is if anybody else reacted to this with any comparative sourness – like the people who are still alive and voted offwagon and are of indeterminate alignment, currently. How was their engagement with this kerfuffle, or did they do their best to avoid/ignore it? I think that's the key, or at least ONE key to opening this Christmas Cracker of a game.

Also keep in mind Pizza totally sacrifices himself to take out a PR, here. He never expects to survive too deep into a game anymore so he tries to get the best results he can in a short time. And exposing the doc is a great result.

[Kaiveran]

I am an idiot.

I totally underestimated the time I'd need and also misconfigured the timer thingy I was using.

This is all I have for you.

Mendie and Lizzy are probably not Mariahs.

Burma is probably not an Elf.

Renata is definitely not an Elf.

I think raven, Texcat, and Jackie absolutely need to be resolved over the next cycle.

But this isn't the end. I might be wrong as fuck. Don't take my word as gospel, because that shit wasn't even written by one person. You need to take up my pen and continue giving the town some Good News.

Whether you follow my tracks or not, I cannot stress this enough: Have reasoning both for AND against whoever you're trying to hang. Investigation, Prosecution, Defense. Don't vote for anyone for whom any these elements are missing, no matter how much you don't like them. Otherwise the game becomes "who can we confbias/tell-lock the hardest", which kills towns dead.

Sorry I sucked this game.

Happy New Year.