Government Shutdown

[SmartAleq]

Also in the way of analysis of the uber-conservative "mind"set I found this rather evocative.

Kind of an introductory point:

Let me unpack this for you as an Anthropolgist, because I think it says something about the enormous gap that lies between these people (Republicans and Punishers) and the rest of us. There are several things at issue here: the status of workers, the status of employers, and the status anxiety Republicans feel when they don't believe that they are treated as an employer should be treated by their employees. In this case everyone in the Federal Government, from the President down to the lowliest Federal Street Sweeper, is not giving Varney the satisfaction that he thinks is his due. And he is damned if they will be paid when they don't do their job to his satisfaction. In this way his attitude is like that of the angry customers, the "Punishers" described in Jay Porter's series of essays about what happened when he moved an entire restaurant from tipped wait staff to non tipped.

There's a link to the mentioned essays about Jay Porter's attempt at a tipless restaurant--also excellent reading. I admit I have a terrible time trying to twist up my world view into a teabagger's version because it's so completely foreign to my experience and general outlook. I can't imagine trying to walk around all day every day feeling like everything around me is a threat and being generally hateful about people I don't know. It would be like trying to wear the cruel shoes 24/7.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by Veb

Bloomburg's analysis of the economic consequences of a default: http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...warfing-lehman

Sadly, that "unprecedented catastrophe" is exactly what some Democrats (Harry Reid for one) seem to want.

The McClintock-Toomey bill would have taken the debt default off the table as a political football for both sides forever. Sadly, douches like Reid have chosen to demagogue the issue by dubbing it the "Pay China First" bill.

The disingenuous argument they make is that since the McClintock-Toomey bill doesn't insist that EVERYONE get paid, it's useless. Talk about making "the perfect into the enemy of the good".

Many (including the Bloomburg guy above) that if the US ever defaults, even once, it'd be totally apocalyptic. Not so with paying for, say, the Parks Department. It's not good to close the Parks Dept, but it wouldn't have the nuclear effects of a default.

So...let's not put this all on one side.

Link-sorry folks, I know you don't like the WSJ, but at the same time, I'm not going to accept any article that refers to McClintock-Toomey as the "Pay China First" bill--which most of 'em do.

[Chocodile]

Maybe we should have a lottery system where the winners serve a six month term in Congress. It can't be more disruptive than the political system we now have.

[Erving#6]

From the article:

Let's be clear: We aren't recommending either outcome. The U.S. should meet all of its obligations.

You don't think the "market" has enough power and enough preference with the U.S. gov't already? This bill basically says who cares abou the everyday people. Appeasing the markets is not why our country needs to get its shit together. The gov't has to stop this childish bullshit and get to work. Enough is enough.

Originally Posted by Fenris

Sadly, that "unprecedented catastrophe" is exactly what some Democrats (Harry Reid for one) seem to want.

The McClintock-Toomey bill would have taken the debt default off the table as a political football for both sides forever. Sadly, douches like Reid have chosen to demagogue the issue by dubbing it the "Pay China First" bill.

The disingenuous argument they make is that since the McClintock-Toomey bill doesn't insist that EVERYONE get paid, it's useless. Talk about making "the perfect into the enemy of the good".

Many (including the Bloomburg guy above) that if the US ever defaults, even once, it'd be totally apocalyptic. Not so with paying for, say, the Parks Department. It's not good to close the Parks Dept, but it wouldn't have the nuclear effects of a default.

So...let's not put this all on one side.

Link-sorry folks, I know you don't like the WSJ, but at the same time, I'm not going to accept any article that refers to McClintock-Toomey as the "Pay China First" bill--which most of 'em do.

[SmartAleq]

Yes, everyone DOES need to get paid. Erving needs paid. taters needs paid. I bet there are not a few vets on this board who would appreciate having access to their medical care and pensions--they need paid. We're getting sick and fucking tired of a bunch of idiotic know-nothings playing Russian Roulette with a .45 automatic, but instead of pointing it at their own heads they're pointing it at random at federal employees whose jobs they personally don't understand or care why they're important and needed. Because the people who need those jobs done are not the people who're pointing the fucking gun. And those gun pointing people are irretrievably venal AND stupid.

How about this marching moron--Rep Ted Yoho, who actually thinks and is willing to say on the record, such gems as the following:

Now, Yoho is ready for a bigger fight. He doesn’t want to raise the debt ceiling — ever again. The experts, and Republican leaders, say that would trigger a financial catastrophe.

But Yoho didn’t listen to them about the shutdown. And look how that turned out.

“I think we need to have that moment where we realize [we’re] going broke,” Yoho said. If the debt ceiling isn’t raised, that will sure as heck be a moment. “I think, personally, it would bring stability to the world markets,” since they would be assured that the United States had moved decisively to curb its debt.

How, precisely, do you attempt to reason with people that invincibly stupid? Oh, and the way he knows he's right is that he gets letters from constituents telling him so. Yeah, that's some expert testimony right there.

[mswas]

Originally Posted by SmartAleq

Also in the way of analysis of the uber-conservative "mind"set I found this rather evocative.

Kind of an introductory point:

There's a link to the mentioned essays about Jay Porter's attempt at a tipless restaurant--also excellent reading. I admit I have a terrible time trying to twist up my world view into a teabagger's version because it's so completely foreign to my experience and general outlook. I can't imagine trying to walk around all day every day feeling like everything around me is a threat and being generally hateful about people I don't know. It would be like trying to wear the cruel shoes 24/7.

Yeah, it's an interesting idea. Republicans are fascinated by crime and punishment and paradoxically their idea that taxation is theft doesn't apply when that tax money goes to punish people. In order to punish people they will spare no expense. It's ok to bomb a village because a terrorist once had a safe house there. It's ok to lock up drug users and spend an order of magnitude more money on incarceration than you would spend on welfare.

It's so perverse. They love big government when it is punishing people.

[SmartAleq]

They'd rather spend billions on legislation to make birth control and abortion illegal or impossible to obtain, exchanging an inexpensive drug or procedure for the orders of magnitude higher expense of raising a child all to punish women for daring to have sex without their express permission.

[Jaglavak]

Originally Posted by SmartAleq

How about this marching moron--Rep Ted Yoho, who actually thinks and is willing to say on the record, such gems as the following:

Well, it's true a default would have that effect. Smoldering wreckage is pretty stable.

[Tuckerfan]

Originally Posted by Chocodile

Maybe we should have a lottery system where the winners serve a six month term in Congress. It can't be more disruptive than the political system we now have.

That idea won an IgNobel Prize when it was suggested that businesses adopt such a method. Six months is too short a time to hold office, but the random selection method shows promise.

[mswas]

I think we should just make criminals serve time in Congress. That way we can stop corrupting the cream of our society, those who want to do good in the world and end up becoming politicians.

[Glazer]

They already do. The whole lot of them.

[Tuckerfan]

So much for the probe into the NSA.

So, you know how the federal government all shut down because Congress failed to come up with a budget to pay the employees? Well, the members of the special committee set up to investigate the intelligence community just threw in the towel, too. But they weren't even getting paid in the first place.

In what appears to be an odd act of solidarity, the five-member Review Group on Intelligence and Communications Technologies has effectively shut itself down. The group last met on Tuesday, albeit without former CIA director Mike Morell, who said he just couldn't participate. "I simply thought that it was inappropriate for our group to continue working while the vast majority of the men and women of the intelligence community are being forced to remain off the job," Morell told Politico.

[mswas]

Originally Posted by Tuckerfan

So much for the probe into the NSA.

But don't you know? The greatest threat to our freedom is cheaper healthcare!

[Jaglavak]

"I simply thought that it was inappropriate for our group to continue working while the vast majority of the men and women of the intelligence community are being forced to remain off the job," Morell told Politico.

Whew! Dodged a bullet there. That saved them from having to use the old, "Wrong phase of the moon" excuse.

[Tuckerfan]

An upside for Federal workers: Free vibrators!

Vibrators.com is giving away free vibrators to Federal Employees during the government shutdown. Be careful following the rules outlined below. 200 Vibrators per day maximum.

[Chacoguy]

Democrats respond.

[JackieLikesVariety]

Originally Posted by Chacoguy

Democrats respond.

good. dammit.

[Erving#6]

When is this going to end?

[Tuckerfan]

Well, some CDC employees get to go back to work.

Well that was quick. Seemingly hours after officials issued a health warning about a multi-state salmonella outbreak, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) called nearly all of its food monitoring staff back in to work.

[Erving#6]

Originally Posted by Tuckerfan

Well, some CDC employees get to go back to work.

But we aren't getting paid until these assholes in DC actually make a deal.

[Glazer]

You work at the CDC? I live near the Clifton Rd. campus.

[Dragonlady]

Originally Posted by Erving#6

But we aren't getting paid until these assholes in DC actually make a deal.

So, what happens of you refuse to go to work until they are willing to pay you?

[Glazer]

Fired. There's always somebody willing to take your place.

[Erving#6]

Originally Posted by Glazer

You work at the CDC? I live near the Clifton Rd. campus.

Sorry no I do not work at the CDC, I'm a federal employee and have been working the entire time.

[Glazer]

And I though I had a crappy employer.

[Chocodile]

Originally Posted by Glazer

Fired. There's always somebody willing to take your place.

I thought government employees had the highest percentage of union membership in the country. It's very easy to call a government shutdown if you know the employees will keep working even though they're not being paid. I don't care if you're an air traffic controller or a secret service agent guarding the president, there should be a walkout.

I think unions were necessary at the turn of the previous century but eventually became too entitled and contributed to the epidemic of manufacturing outsourcing. Each time I think they should be abolished, shit like this comes up where the robber barons stomp all over the worker.

[Tuckerfan]

Mad about the government shutdown? Website lets you drunk dial Congress!Make sure you scroll down and read the suggested talking points!

[Clothahump]

Originally Posted by SmartAleq

I admit I have a terrible time trying to twist up my world view into a teabagger's version because it's so completely foreign to my experience and general outlook. I can't imagine trying to walk around all day every day feeling like everything around me is a threat and being generally hateful about people I don't know. It would be like trying to wear the cruel shoes 24/7.

First off, try learning what a Tea Party conservative's world view actually is. That would help a lot.

Here are some clues for you: lower taxes, smaller government. Nothing in there at all about feeling that everything is a threat or being hateful or wearing cruel shoes. We leave that kind of crap to the liberals.

[Muffin]

You're a Tea Partier?

[Erving#6]

Originally Posted by Clothahump

First off, try learning what a Tea Party conservative's world view actually is. That would help a lot.

Here are some clues for you: lower taxes, smaller government. Nothing in there at all about feeling that everything is a threat or being hateful or wearing cruel shoes. We leave that kind of crap to the liberals.

The Tea Party is comical, I hope this gov't shutdown has finally given the rest of America a good view of the boobs who are considered the Tea Party leadership. They have accomplished nothing. Take care.

[Glazer]

Originally Posted by Muffin

You're a Tea Partier?

Isn't it obvious?

[Chacoguy]

The Tea Party is full of shit unless they're willing make substantial cuts in Social Security, Medicare and Defense.

[Harry]

Originally Posted by Erving #6

The Tea Party is comical, I hope this gov't shutdown has finally given the rest of America a good view of the boobs who are considered the Tea Party leadership. They have accomplished nothing. Take care.

A point of order...They have, in fact, managed to unify most of the Democratic Party. No small feat, I think. Will Rogers once said he didn't belong to an organized political party; he was a Democrat.

[eleanorigby]

Hell, yes. I know several moderate Republicans who voted for Obama this time around. The Tea Party scares the hell out of them. There's no rational, cohesive thought behind the TP. Never mind the nonsense of "smaller Gment, lower taxes". It's a party that's against stuff, not for stuff. It's hysterical, reactionary claptrap. I'm no fan of the GOP, but I used to have no problem with moderate Reps. Problem is, you can't FIND any, anymore. But it is the GOP's fault: they allowed the most radical wing of their party to muscle in. Thanks, Ronald Reagan! Such a fine President... Anyhoo, you can't reason with people like Michelle Bachman or <insert another whackadoodle's name here>.

I hope to God the President doesn't cave to these toddler tactics. You don't play chicken with the global economy, and petulance is no principle by which to run a Gment.

[The Superhero]

Originally Posted by Chacoguy

The Tea Party is full of shit unless they're willing make substantial cuts in Social Security, Medicare and Defense.

They were driven to such fits of apoplectic rage by the idea that the government might try to make the health care system somewhat more equitable for all Americans that they resorted to "taking my ball and going home" tactics in a futile effort to prevent it, as we're now seeing. I think they'd gut Medicare with a rusty iron hook and take photos of themselves grinning alongside the corpse if they thought they could get away with it.

They'd also be perfectly happy to turn Social Security over to the various bankers, fund managers and other good-ol'-boys-club MBAs who've proven to be so caring and thoughtful about the needs and interests of the non-wealthy over the last several years. They'd do it faster than you could say "The Koch Brothers can kiss my ass" if they could. Privatizing Social Security has been a far-right talking point for a good twenty years now.

Defense, though. That's sacred. Gotta make sure our military is so big and powerful that Nobody Would Ever Dare Attack Us. Just like they didn't dare attack us on 9/11.

[SmartAleq]

Y'know, there's just no actual commentary to be added to this article that could possibly improve it. It just sort of sits there and gleams like a 7.07 carat diamond of teh stoopid.

[Tuckerfan]

The shutdown is fucking with our beer, man!

[Chocodile]

Originally Posted by Tuckerfan

The shutdown is fucking with our beer, man!

I could almost support the shutdown based on this effect. Beer is beer. Beer should not pumpkin-flavored, nor should we have seasonal cranberry-infused beer for Thanksgiving. Beer should not cost $15 a six-pack.

[Chocodile]

Originally Posted by SmartAleq

Y'know, there's just no actual commentary to be added to this article that could possibly improve it. It just sort of sits there and gleams like a 7.07 carat diamond of teh stoopid.

I have to argue that that story is as biased as the sources it cites. "Blatant Abuse of Power #2", about closing the ocean...there's nothing in that headline or quoted text that blames Obama for shutting down Florida Bay. It says the Feds did it, and blames the shutdown. Do Breitbart readers not know how and why the shutdown came about? Yes, there's a picture of Obama there, but he's not explicitly called out.

The Mt. Rushmore thing is stupid though. The park is closed because we don't have the manpower. So we bring in outside manpower and expensive helicopters to do this instead. Also, in real life, Rushmore is much smaller than I had thought but it can't be dwarfed by two helicopters and where are you going to come up with a tablecloth that big on short notice?

[Chacoguy]

Utah's and Colorado's National Parks are reopening.

Tell Everyone.

[Jaglavak]

Originally Posted by Chocodile

Beer should not cost $15 a six-pack.

Cheapskate.

[sturmhauke]

Originally Posted by Chocodile

Do Breitbart readers not know how and why the shutdown came about? Yes, there's a picture of Obama there, but he's not explicitly called out.

Maybe you should try reading to the bottom:

"Centuries ago, King Canute famously failed to command the ocean tide to stop. His display was actually a means to educate his subjects on the limits of royal power. Today, however, our President actually believes he has the power to control the oceans."

[Paul in Qatar]

It is already Saturday here in Saudi Arabia. I understand that in a show of strength, right-wing truckers are going to parade around the Washington DC ring road to close it down.

Oh yeah, now we shall see the power of the people. Unless of course such people are just the nutcase fringe.

[Chocodile]

Originally Posted by Paul in Qatar

I understand that in a show of strength, right-wing truckers are going to parade around the Washington DC ring road to close it down.

Yeah, it's great. Food prices are going up every week because of the increased cost to ship them and a bunch of truckers are going to use up a month's worth of gas driving in circles.

What with all of the politicians flying private planes to their home states to campaign for local politicians, I can't picture this could possibly inconvenience the average joe who just needs to run down to Home Depot to get a gasket for his leaking toilet.

[Tuckerfan]

Originally Posted by Paul in Qatar

It is already Saturday here in Saudi Arabia. I understand that in a show of strength, right-wing truckers are going to parade around the Washington DC ring road to close it down.

Oh yeah, now we shall see the power of the people. Unless of course such people are just the nutcase fringe.

It doesn't seem to be working out all that well for them.

Police authorities in Maryland and Virginia reported no major incidents Friday as a result of the much-talked about truckers protest around the Beltway. Drivers of tractor trailers had said they were going to drive slowly to block off parts of the Beltway to protest excessive government intrusion.

There were police reports of about 30 tractor trailers with American flags and signs for their protest — “Truckers Ride for the Constitution” — driving at the same speed as the rest of traffic on the Beltway in Friday morning’s rush hour. But by mid-day the truckers appeared to have broken into smaller groups amid already-heavy volumes of traffic and rain showers on a holiday weekend.

[Veb]

Originally Posted by Paul in Qatar

It is already Saturday here in Saudi Arabia. I understand that in a show of strength, right-wing truckers are going to parade around the Washington DC ring road to close it down.

Oh yeah, now we shall see the power of the people. Unless of course such people are just the nutcase fringe.

Their stated idea was to cause total gridlock on the freeways into and around DC, though it's hard to understand how anyone would notice the difference. Anyway, they were going to drive their big rigs right up to the Capitol and arrest members of Congress. I guess they intended to make citizen's arrests and would just figure out how to deal with armed capitol security when they got there. But they're self-proclaimed patriots with very big trucks and they were taking their country back and shit. Breaker, breaker, east bound and down, Smokey and the Bandit, yeehaw.

To the surprise of no one, the whole thing fizzled out. Couldn't make this shit up.

[Pere]

My Washington-insider contact says there was much fretting about the truck thing on Wednesday, then the word on Thursday was that it was all a hoax, not to worry.

In the event, there was a garbage-truck spill several days ago that had a much more visible impact on Beltway traffic.

[Chocodile]

Originally Posted by Veb

I guess they intended to make citizen's arrests and would just figure out how to deal with armed capitol security when they got there.

Come on. Some bozo decides that they're not going to pay you but tells you to hang around anyway to protect them? They're lucky that security hasn't taken them out themselves.

If the government has been shut down and you're not getting paid, can you really be brought up on charges of dereliction of duty if you don't stop an attacker?

Clogging the Beltway was a stupid idea and it could only have backfired. If they wanted to rile up the government, they should have refused to pay the 24.4 cents per gallon Federal excise tax on diesel fuel. I bet that brings in a few dollars every day.

[Brian]

Rabid, right-wing Teahadist Susan Collins, along with Sen. Manchin, came up with a bipartisan plan to end the shutdown AND extend the debt limit in exchange for a delay in the medical devices tax (which Obama himself says isn't vital to the ACA) and income verification for Obamacare subsidies.

What's wrong with income verification for government benefits? I dunno.

Anyway, the Senate Dems rejected the plan, because it didn't spend enough money! Why is spending an ever increasing amount of money so important to the Democrats?

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/1...1.html?hp=t1_s

[Erving#6]

53-45 and it's not enough, the GOP has F'd the pooch and now have to figure out a way they can save themselves from looking worse by the day. Where is Teddy?

Originally Posted by Brian

Rabid, right-wing Teahadist Susan Collins, along with Sen. Manchin, came up with a bipartisan plan to end the shutdown AND extend the debt limit in exchange for a delay in the medical devices tax (which Obama himself says isn't vital to the ACA) and income verification for Obamacare subsidies.

What's wrong with income verification for government benefits? I dunno.

Anyway, the Senate Dems rejected the plan, because it didn't spend enough money! Why is spending an ever increasing amount of money so important to the Democrats?

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/1...1.html?hp=t1_s