Greek History Mafia D3

[Askthepizzaguy]

You claimed vanilla and then someone else claimed you were vanilla, so I didn't bother thinking about you too closely.

My apologies. I did look at you, but I don't get the Merovingian reference.

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Note that there is a confirmed villager on that wagon, and myself and Sooh opened the round with those votes. I'm also a villager.

Villagers lynch other villagers all the time - you keep doing it - while waving your Good Townie flag

Too many confirmed villagers, and claims.

only 4? confirmed- and 3 are dead

They also lose if they bus each other, but they have to generate something good in a very bad position imo.

I think the scums are at a loss for a good move.

Scum are on a roll they could afford a bus- don't you think?

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by lulz

Meeko can confirm we're vanilla if he's either a rolecop or vanillacop.

If meeko is a cop then meeko could only confirm that we're town but not if we're vanilla.

snipped.

There are many kinds of cop and you have already seen a role that you didn't believe so don't make hasty judgements

SisC Meeko didn't clarify what they ( lulz&DoubleA) were telling the truth about - except that they were vanilla

lulz

If Meeko only knows that you are vanilla then you are not confirmed anything but vanilla

[LightFoot]

NETA and then if Meeko is lying then you could be anything at all

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

It shouldn't take too long to look at all her posts, there weren't many.

The thing that bugged me the most, other than the lack of involvement overall, was the vote for lulz which started for one reason and then stayed for a different reason, it looked like an excuse to park one's vote.

I also genuinely do not see myself as being suspicious this game. I realize I've had games which were on the fence but this is classic villager Pizza. It's fashionable to find me suspicious because you don't have to justify it at all, it would seem.

I read the posts- one liners for the most part- an example of distracted play nothing else- LFv1 voted lulz for one reason and stayed for others - no tell there...........the "genuinely do not see myself as being suspicious this game."..."classic villager Pizza" comment makes my skin prickle- and there are flashing lights- pair that with your bully tone directing the voting- on Town - I can not clear you

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by BillMc

Curious and Curiouser said Plato.

RE: the wall above Pizza remember this?

[LightFoot]

NETA it was on a previous page by Pizza about the clues

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

You claimed vanilla and then someone else claimed you were vanilla, so I didn't bother thinking about you too closely.

My apologies. I did look at you, but I don't get the Merovingian reference.

Where was the merovingian reference before you posted it?

[idrinkthere4iam]

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Idrink in the U.S.

Well the song lyrics were in response to guiri's post directly ahead of it where he said he felt like pizza for posting 8 consecutive posts. So I posted a snip from "behind blue eyes" by the who. So no connection to the secret messages.

But...

Yes. From the U.S. Michigan actually. Detroit Michigan to be exact. Detroit was a French fort way back when. So yeah, there's that.

Draw your conclusions pizza. I can be mysterious too.

[LightFoot]

This will probably get me lynched- again- but I do think one of the ' triad' needs resolved
* you are pushing the game around
* you have lead the charge or dropped the hammer on 2 Town lynches ( and may very well be headed for another)
* you claim vanilla and yet your 'reads' are to be taken as gospel


Tell me if this is way off my fellows --- Pizza insisted Day one- and two and three - that lulz and Double A were Town- but he has claimed vanilla- - Meeko may have confirmed the two as Town? not sure - but Pizza would only KNOW a player was Town if they were not on his Scum Team- you follow?

[Askthepizzaguy]

"This will probably get me lynched again"

Fake.

[Askthepizzaguy]

And it's really, really easy to solve Double A and lulz for townies based on in-thread behavior alone and vote pattern.

[Askthepizzaguy]

All that work was posted. Comb through that and tell me that wasn't villager Pizzaguy saying those things. I'll say it again: Pizzaguy the villager said those things.

I'll say it a third and a hundredth time too. And should I be lynched, it will be the last thing I say to you folks before I die.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I just want credit for analyzing the persons being lynched as opposed to welp, I don't know you and/or I don't like you.

Lazy. I'm condemning all the laziness this game. You're being pretty lazy right now too, LF. Beyond disappointing.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Originally Posted by LightFoot

Scum are on a roll they could afford a bus- don't you think?

No, because they won't get credit for it.

4 people you don't lynch right now makes a very small pool. All villagers have to do is OMGUS vote the folks voting them who aren't in that list of 4 and they'll hit scums at this point to a high degree of accuracy.

Oh look I voted a scum day three when there was no other option. So what? You can die next.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Originally Posted by LightFoot

Where was the merovingian reference before you posted it?

Control + F is a thing. It would take you five minutes, tops, to look for it.

It's also in bold blue, and in order. Asking these types of questions doesn't do anything but give me busywork. Why should I help you?

I already answered your question about why I felt dizzy was scum. Your predictable response was I'm scum.

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

I just want credit for analyzing the persons being lynched as opposed to welp, I don't know you and/or I don't like you.

Lazy. I'm condemning all the laziness this game. You're being pretty lazy right now too, LF. Beyond disappointing.

I am not being lazy - there is a burr under my saddle and I want to remove it.

You were lock sure X was Scum- so they died- you were wrong
How many townies do you need to lynch to win?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Originally Posted by LightFoot

I am not being lazy - there is a burr under my saddle and I want to remove it.

You were lock sure X was Scum- so they died- you were wrong
How many townies do you need to lynch to win?

Let me ask you who pushed the lynches of the two people I thought weren't scumbags on day one.

Blame the guy who voted last all you like, I tried to make it a tie.

You are beyond disingenuous. Eat a lynch again, Lightfoot. You've already worn out all my sympathies for being the lynch yesterday because you utterly refused to be a teammate to me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

You lynch Scathach and you get a shot at anyone you wanted last night, even me.

You refused.

How am I supposed to work with villagers like that? No, you seriously deserved that lynch and I'd do it again, every time.

[Askthepizzaguy]

What's my alignment now, Lightfoot? Still scummy?

Prepare to be surprised.

[LightFoot]

I knew this Town player once ( or twice) that was not too unhappy being lynched because it would give Town information If you are as you claim then your information would be better received if we knew that you were indeed Town.

---- I didn't want to be lynched v1 either -since it put me out of the game ( I stayed unspoiled in case a sub was needed)


I came here to play - but I won't sheep- or like the call to

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

You lynch Scathach and you get a shot at anyone you wanted last night, even me.

You refused.

How am I supposed to work with villagers like that? No, you seriously deserved that lynch and I'd do it again, every time.

How many votes did you see move after your proposal? I don't recall a one- ( except the one onto LFv1) your proposal would have created a tie- in theory- and I didn't want that

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Let me ask you who pushed the lynches of the two people I thought weren't scumbags on day one.

Blame the guy who voted last all you like, I tried to make it a tie.

You are beyond disingenuous. Eat a lynch again, Lightfoot. You've already worn out all my sympathies for being the lynch yesterday because you utterly refused to be a teammate to me.

I don't know what side you are on-----

[Mahaloth]

Originally Posted by LightFoot

This will probably get me lynched- again- but I do think one of the ' triad' needs resolved Askthepizzaguy

Your reasons for why he is scum is why I think he's Town. I know this is WIFOM type stuff, but I don't think pizza would play the way he has as scum. He seems the most Townie I've seen and he tops my "most likely to be Town" list.

Vote Lightfoot

I think lightfoot could be scum trying to get rid of a Townie on the right path, or at least one trying to play solidly.

[Mahaloth]

Note: I meant pizza tops my list not including confirmed or mostly confirmed people. Just in case people think I didn't mean that.

[guiri]

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

No agenda, just misunderstanding what Meeko had said.

The misunderstanding is plausible based on the claim, depending on their actual alignment it may be a sign of PIS, but it's the coming back to the thread to post that and nothing else that stands out, as if your goal was to encourage the vanilla=town equivalence. Looks to me like there are three options:
- you are town, they could be anything, and you really felt the need to incorrectly answer Drinkie's question to Meeko where he quoted Meeko saying they were vanilla and asked if that meant they were still potentially scum
- you are scum, one or both of them are scum, and you're pushing the conclusion hinted by others that they are confirmed town
- you are scum, they are town, and you presumed Meeko had a town result on both and answered Drinkie displaying PIS

Originally Posted by Sooh

If you noticed my vote came in before I went away on holiday, and it has stayed there. I believe this position needs to be resolved, but I have more scum candidates. I'll elaborate more when I get home and have a chance.

In D2#124 you didn't have a read on her, and were going to review Pizza's case. You didn't mention her, or it, again, and left your vote on Lightfoot. During the Night you did post to say you'd read and liked Pizza's case and would vote that way but I can't help feeling you were just following your trusted buddy without looking at the case with a critical eye - none of Scathach's D2 posts came after your #124.

Originally Posted by BillMc

"the titans have reached full power" - are the "titans" the scum? and does "reached full power" suggests there has been recruitment or additional powers activated?

Again, completely ignored the color. I think it's the first mention of Titans, but if we've been given a gift to combat them, it sure sounds like they're the enemy. Reaching full power sounds like the scum team started incomplete, maybe underpowered or understaffed.

Originally Posted by Meeko

I'm not answering any other fishing expeditions.

After the game I'd like to discuss what you understand by fishing. You've claimed a certain role, asked players to share their role, they both said they were vanilla, and you confirmed that that's the truth. But you are also implying that they are Town but neither of them said that and a role cop usually cannot tell alignment. Some players seem to have understood that they are cop-investigated townies. If you know that they are Town, you should tell us. If you don't know their alignment, but only their role, you should also make that clear. Remember that scum already know their alignment, and by sharing that they are vanilla, you've reduced the pool for powers to hide in and just confused us, well me at least, since I'm inclined to believe that they are vanilla and you are a role cop, but that says nothing about alignment, which is kind of the whole point of this game - to find the bad guys. Is that fishing?

Originally Posted by Sooh

But hey, what do I know? I'm just the messenger.

Sooh, did you not claim to be the messenger N1? Who are you trying to be recruited by?

Originally Posted by LightFoot

This will probably get me lynched- again- but I do think one of the ' triad' needs resolved

Vote Pizza cause you think he's scum but I don't think lynching one of the triad will tell you anything about the other two.

So, pending confirmation from Meeko on his Double A result, I'm torn between SisterCoyote and the "helpful but misleading" post, Sooh and the sheeping - given her D1 no vote, and Meeko for sewing confusion - I can't be the only one.

Originally Posted by Mahaloth

Note: I meant pizza tops my list not including confirmed or mostly confirmed people. Just in case people think I didn't mean that.

Does that list happen to include Lulz and Double A?

[SisterCoyote]

Guiri -- I commented on that because I felt idrink was very suspicious based on their (or what I thought was their) misapprehension, as though they were trying to downplay Meeko's result.

I probably could have commented on that further, but -- again, based on MY misunderstanding -- I thought the rest of you might share that suspicion.

So, you know. Stupidity, not malice.

[Sooh]

Originally Posted by guiri

In D2#124 you didn't have a read on her, and were going to review Pizza's case. You didn't mention her, or it, again, and left your vote on Lightfoot. During the Night you did post to say you'd read and liked Pizza's case and would vote that way but I can't help feeling you were just following your trusted buddy without looking at the case with a critical eye - none of Scathach's D2 posts came after your #124.

To me following Pizza on this one may give me a better read on both him and the rest of town, plus I don't trust myself to make very good reads when I have literally 15-20 minutes to give this game every day this phase lasts. I am sorry that I can't contribute more this phase, but I will be home late Friday and will hopefully get some reading and analyzing done before EOD.

Originally Posted by guiri

Sooh, did you not claim to be the messenger N1? Who are you trying to be recruited by?

No, I did not. My little note or clue there was meant as a hint about my character, not my role. Do you really think I would have left clues like that out in the open if I was the person posting those notes through the mod?

[Sooh]

Also, Guiri, I don't like your fishing.

[Mahaloth]

Originally Posted by guiri

Does that list happen to include Lulz and Double A?[/QUOTE]

Yes.

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by guiri

After the game I'd like to discuss what you understand by fishing. You've claimed a certain role, asked players to share their role, they both said they were vanilla, and you confirmed that that's the truth. But you are also implying that they are Town but neither of them said that and a role cop usually cannot tell alignment. Some players seem to have understood that they are cop-investigated townies. If you know that they are Town, you should tell us. If you don't know their alignment, but only their role, you should also make that clear. Remember that scum already know their alignment, and by sharing that they are vanilla, you've reduced the pool for powers to hide in and just confused us, well me at least, since I'm inclined to believe that they are vanilla and you are a role cop, but that says nothing about alignment, which is kind of the whole point of this game - to find the bad guys. Is that fishing?

You have typed almost precisely what I was thinking - if you include the ATPG factor

~snipped~
Vote Pizza cause you think he's scum but I don't think lynching one of the triad will tell you anything about the other two.

I am. no, it won't really- but it will help my perspective on the situation.

So, pending confirmation from Meeko on his Double A result, I'm torn between SisterCoyote and the "helpful but misleading" post, Sooh and the sheeping - given her D1 no vote, and Meeko for sewing confusion - I can't be the only one.

I am leaning that way myself- I feel all three points.-
SisC voted LFv1 after ( as I recall) saying they always think LF is Scum but that is not a yardstick.D1 voted for ATPG and the next two Days voted the same as ATPG has



You.Guiri. put the nail in LFv1's coffin ( or the final knot in the rope as it were) after they claimed

so you have me flippity about your alignment ( but you smell Town to me )

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by Sooh

Also, Guiri, I don't like your fishing.

If you are referring to the paragraph I quoted above- mayhaps you should re-read it?

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by Mahaloth

Your reasons for why he is scum is why I think he's Town. I know this is WIFOM type stuff, but I don't think pizza would play the way he has as scum. He seems the most Townie I've seen and he tops my "most likely to be Town" list.

Vote Lightfoot

I think lightfoot could be scum trying to get rid of a Townie on the right path, or at least one trying to play solidly.

If you don't have a problem with a ring in your nose that is your prerogative- he plays as he plays no matter his faction- this time I think he is scum- deadly clever Scum but, Scum none the less.

[lulz]

[Sario]

Originally Posted by Vote Counting Robot

Scathach (4): Askthepizzaguy (3), Sooh (6), Sario (17), SisterCoyote (23)
Askthepizzaguy (1): LightFoot (110)

Voting History:
post #3: Askthepizzaguy voted Scathach
post #6: Sooh voted Scathach
post #17: Sario voted Scathach
post #23: SisterCoyote voted Scathach
post #25: lulz voted
post #110: LightFoot voted Askthepizzaguy

[Sario]

Oddly, the robot did not catch Mahaloth's vote for Lightfoot. Post is here.

[idrinkthere4iam]

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

Guiri -- I commented on that because I felt idrink was very suspicious based on their (or what I thought was their) misapprehension, as though they were trying to downplay Meeko's result.

I probably could have commented on that further, but -- again, based on MY misunderstanding -- I thought the rest of you might share that suspicion.

So, you know. Stupidity, not malice.

Wasn't downplaying anything. Just trying to understand it. He first posted that they were telling the truth. Then he posted again, in bold I might add, They are both vanila. I wanted verification on if he was confirming that they were both vanilla, or if there was more. There's a huge difference between being confirmed vanilla and being confirmed vanilla town. I trust his claim, I have no reason not too, but I would like clarification. And it seems I'm not alone in this…

[Mahaloth]

Originally Posted by Sario

Oddly, the robot did not catch Mahaloth's vote for Lightfoot. Post is here.

I'll do it again.



I usually just bold and blue my votes. This time I used the actual vote tag. I didn't think there was a difference.

[Double A]

Yeah, I don't have the host writing ability because I'm vanilla.


Pizza's been fiendishly defending me and Lulz all game, and basically starting wagons on our detractors. Normally I'd automatically assume such a person is town, but Pizza makes everything a 50/50 toss-up. I'm not gonna vote for him because I'm always in favor of giving him more time to do his thing. It would've been much better to scan him instead of me and Lulz because there's no way in hell Meeko's living through tonight. Still, this is more fun, and gotta use the information you're dealt.

You can't just think about what's scummy or townie, but who Pizza's actions benefit most. For the past two days, he's been keeping two townies alive. However, he's also been stealing the stage and made the game about the two of us - a huge distraction for the town. The way I see it, he would totally do what he's doing right now regardless of which side he's on, which is why he's my favorite motherfucker in all of mafia. I think I'm leaning a bit more towards town, but I usually do and I've proven very wrong in the past. I would overanalyze all his posts, but I want to go to bed in the next hour.

[Sooh]

Originally Posted by LightFoot

If you are referring to the paragraph I quoted above- mayhaps you should re-read it?

No, I was referring to him fishing about my role in the post I quoted above the one you quoted.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Originally Posted by LightFoot

I don't know what side you are on-----

If that's true, then figure it out.

I can walk you through this game step by step.

[Askthepizzaguy]

D1.020

I'm happy to get my favorite role of all time, and I begin my strategy of attempting to draw votes and determine if they seem villagery or not.

D1.022

I have done this before, as scum. So many times that it had gotten legendary or infamous depending on your point of view. Bringing it up and rubbing it in people's faces is bound to make someone go "Not this time pizza, you do this every time you're scum, not going to get away with it this time, vote: pizza"

D1.023

BillMc is legendary for reading anyone's alignment correctly quickly as a villager. But, I was still testing him because he could rand scum. Come on BillMc, say something to me that reveals you're not a villager. Or guess wrong, because either way, I want to defeat you, because you're a scary player. But I'm not afraid of scary players, I'm attracted to them. I want to play with and against the very best and continually test them.

D1.026

Lynch me.

D1.027

I'm scum, someone lynch me. I'd totally say I'm scum as scum and try to get away with it, so, someone say that, someone try and lynch me.

D1.029

Strategy engaged, let's have fun and see what we can see.

D1.031

Askthepizzaguy!Scum is more about jokes and less about content. I didn't analyze myself as scum for the Champions Finale fully, but I learned that about myself. So, let's tell a bunch of jokes and not look like we're solving.

D1.035

BillMc may or may not have fallen into my trap, let's vote him and see where that goes. No reasons given, just OMGUS.

D1.042

Content-free jokes.

D1.043

Who wants to look like a gung-ho townie? Come on... who wants to pretend, and sign my pledge.

D1.044

False bandwagon, go! Who wants to act super serious and really stern and concerned about finding scumbags hard on day one, like the super-est townie ever!

D1.047

Guiri sort of does, but he also wants to keep his options open. Doesn't look great IMO.

D1.071-D1.076

Pay attention to me.

D1.078

Content-free jokes.

D1.080

More acting openly scummy, content-free.

D1.086, 087, 089

Content-free jokes.

D1.094

Content.

Originally Posted by Scáthach

Just back from a week abroad - but PM received etc etc. Looks like joke votes only so far except possibly archangels?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

This was Scaw's first post. Gives me a weird vibe.

Seriously, look at it. PM received "etc etc"? Looks like jokes except Archangel's vote?

It doesn't strike me as a solving question. It just looks like a disoriented scum forgetting how to village.

If you ever had a horrendously bad, awkward opening as scum, and I have in turbos, then you tend to look out for weird opening posts.

But it wasn't enough, I wanted to see her follow-ups. None were forthcoming. She said nothing else at all that day.

Came back the next day and:

Originally Posted by Scáthach

I don't really have a problem with the votes - joke votes d1 are pretty normal. I do wonder a bit about the second one though, for lurking. I have no problems with lynch-the-lurker, but why single out idrinkthere4iam? At least one other person hadn't posted yet either (namely, me ).

Guiri's vote on lulz, well, lulz played exactly the same way in the last game I played with him and he was town then so <insert shrug shoulders smiley here>

Bold 1: Defending someone from bad reasoning.

Bold 2: Consistency argument (Right up there with hypocrisy, attacks a villager's THOUGHT PROCESS)

Bold 3: Defends someone, using a consistency argument.


My thoughts:

Consistency is the hobgoblin of scummy minds. I've said this many, many times as a villager, and I'm saying it now.


When you're a villager:


You think beyond consistency.

Case in point, myself. If I play almost exactly the same way between games, and I was a townie last game, can't I be scum, here?

You are not as bogged down with simple-clears by consistency. There are other clues. Yes, I notice that Double A is acting like the way he always acts, but there's more.

I gave other reasons. Other tells, it's not enough, working from a base of No Knowledge to clear Double A based on his personality meta matching what I know of him alone.

That's sloppy, it's weak, and it's easily manipulated. Scum will often go out of their way to act like a villager, their villagery self from another game.

Sometimes when I multitable games as scum and town, I try to mimic my actions and thought processes in one game, and do a facsimile of them in another.

Consistency doesn't win the day. And as a villager, you know this.

But Scaw did several scumtells in one post that I deeply believe in:

Defending someone against bad thinking processes

And insisting on a consistent thinking process as a tell for townies and scummies.

Scummies will be inconsistent, townies will be consistent.

But you know that's not true. Scums go out of their way to make their arguments defensible, townies react in the moment.

Reads change, context is key, what exactly is happening, not something similar to it, matters a lot in mafia.

When you go all generic and insist on context-free consistency, I read you scum.

Therefore Vote: Scathach, not revealing all the reasoning at first.

Who bites on the Scathach case with no outward compelling reasoning?

Zero people.

How does Scathach react? Curiosity, and nothing more. No attempt to read my alignment or my motivations.

She wants to know how she screwed up, imo.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Now that's my EXACT brainwave from Day One. One part of D1 anyway.

Follow it, step by step.

It is one segment of many, many segments of this game where I have a thought process I can tell you right now, on the spot, and walk you through it.

I can do so because I remember exactly what I was REALLY thinking at the time.

I can tell you what I was really thinking at any point in this game. All it takes is looking at the context of what was happening and I can walk you through how I'm solving it with zero knowledge.

I could continue for every post on every page of this entire game, but no one will read it.

So what? Force me to type it out anyway.

Push against me and try to solve my brain pattern.

I wish players of this game would recognize I am not infallible as scum and I literally can't fake certain things, so, checkmate me! Force me to do something I can't replicate in my scum game.

I've been very competitive with my village games lately, going way way way above and beyond the norm because I want to seriously establish my village game as opposed to cackling with glee every time I'm scum and taking my 50/50 or less win/loss record as town on the chin.

I think I'm at least as good a townie as I am scum.

But I can't be if:

My villager allies do not know how to read me

My villager allies do not want to read me

My villager allies do not try to read me, or anyone else, or show a process

I need your help to win for village, I can't just mastermind things and carry inactive teammates like I am often forced to do as scum.

Your help means trying real hard to read me this game. I know my villagers can do it.

You're all very familiar with my town game by now. This is my town game 2.0

Lightfoot 2.0, justify the green read I had on Dizzy at the game start, and please, if you're on my team, read me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If I'm pushing hard it's because I care.

If it's not fun, say the word, I'll drop my defense of myself, shut up, and watch the game play out.

I want to play competitively but I also understand if it's not meshing with the casual nature of this board.

[Askthepizzaguy]

D1.096

I like my vote, back to low- or no- content.

Afk for a while....

D1.136

Content, because reaction was generated that seemed false.

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

, again.

What the hell, Pizza? Some reason you have for needing everyone to have or have had a vote on them?

I have never heard of a "vote charger" or whatever. It's a niche role even on this forum, I would wager. I've literally never seen or heard of it.

Consequently, from my place of no knowledge, this point doesn't appear to be a viable process for finding scum. Why would scum need or want to do that?

I voted a bunch of people who, if you look, hadn't been voted yet. Purely to let them know they weren't being ignored and also to attract attention, of the kind I can base reads off of.

Here is an example. I stirred, someone reacted.

I didn't think the reaction was legitimate. So my response is telling.

"And this makes me mafia for some reason, totally unnecessary raised eyebrow smiley, question mark?"

Seemed over the top, like bad acting. And no solving process that I recognized at all.

It wasn't a good solving process or a bad one, it was no process at all. So I immediately questioned it.

D1.137

I'm crumbing that I'm vanilla because I'm always claiming vanilla this game. It's important because that limits my options if I'm a scumbag.

Later on, after two botched lynches that yes, I was one part of, I decided I'd go from crumb to hard claim because it would be helpful to my team to get a better read on me.

D1.138

I have stuff I gotta do, but... hey folks, check out what BillMc, Scathach, and SisterCoyote are all doing. Because it's interesting to me.

No one agrees on any of them. I'm getting zero bites, no momentum.

D1.139

I spend about 15 minutes which for a Pizzandroid is nearly an eternity looking at people's reasons for voting for lulz, and lulz' posts specifically.

I do not see what people are seeing in his posts, objectively, someone's holding grudges over a previous game. As for his content so far, and his brainwave, it doesn't match a scum's.

Walk through it with me.


=====================

Splitting this next part up....

[Askthepizzaguy]

Originally Posted by lulz vote: zeener diode Standard opener. Originally Posted by guiri So you're committed to lynching Bill and, if I were to sign, I'd be committed to lynching Mahaloth, Sario and Lulz, is that correct? Guiri wants lulz dead. Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy Meh, you can pick one. Being "committed" to lynch a ton of people is the same as being committed to lynching whoever you like. My feelings here are, pick someone you declare you will definitely lynch. Originally Posted by idrinkthere4iam Appears we will go down this road again... Drink doesn't like lulz. Originally Posted by LightFoot As it stands- Lulz behaviour is the most suspect to me as well------ not a smart move for Scum- but not a single bit impossible- and as Town is makes no sense either----- Like Guri said before me ( differently of course) - to poke and joke is one thing- but to drop a vote with no other interraction in the game is bad form all around. Bolded 1: It's the most suspect, but you think it's not a smart move for town or scum? Bolded 2: It's standard play. Really standard. Especially the first vote of D1. Originally Posted by LightFoot Just like the daytime talk show---" Everybody gets a vote!" dear Mod-- Will we be privy to tie breaking rules? And is it one vote at a time? From where I sit, just after I poke SisterCoyote and BillMc and Scathach, votes pile up on Lulz. Maybe that's self-centered but, I'm in the spotlight. Originally Posted by Mahaloth Yeah, I'm also voting lulz for that weird, non-justified drive-by vote. vote lulz Pile-on, no reason, Mahaloth wants Lulz dead. Originally Posted by Sario In and of itself, the post is suspicious. However suspicious does not always equal scummy, particularly on Day one, so I'm withholding my vote until I hear from lulz again, rather then jumping on the bandwagon. Sario might vote for lulz too, or thinks he has something worth responding to. Originally Posted by Scáthach I don't really have a problem with the votes - joke votes d1 are pretty normal. I do wonder a bit about the second one though, for lurking. I have no problems with lynch-the-lurker, but why single out idrinkthere4iam? At least one other person hadn't posted yet either (namely, me ). Guiri's vote on lulz, well, lulz played exactly the same way in the last game I played with him and he was town then so <insert shrug shoulders smiley here> Scathach's comment on lulz is like a mild town read, after several consistency/normalcy arguments. But one of the only people Scath has taken a position on at all. Originally Posted by Sooh This is useful information. Thanks. I've also been waiting for lulz to come in and talk to us some more. Sooh also wants more from lulz. Originally Posted by idrinkthere4iam Let it be noted that the last game lulz played here he did the exact same thing. And he was Town. Drink feels the need to comment on lulz. Originally Posted by idrinkthere4iam Beaten to the punch. Fact still stands though. Notes others agree with his stance. Originally Posted by lulz Horses are magic animals and these are very ancient animals. Horses were created by designers of Life specially for Magicians. They were called by Riders. And trillions years ago Riders had horses. How there is a travel? The rider gets onto a horse, then disperses before gallop, and then there is a teleportation from one place in another. Movement is possible and in a planet, interstellar travel are an aerobatics. How it works? Between a horse and the Rider the magic contract has to be signed. Such contracts are signed with horses of a certain breed, for example only with white horses or only with black or red horses. It is necessary to tell that there are such intelligence services which are engaged in designing of Life of plants and animals. Them call the master of Life. Masters of life marked magic properties of fruit, vegetables and animals with color. So for example red apples have absolutely other magic properties than green apples. Or white vegetable marrows of a grade of Gribovskiye have absolutely other magic properties than green Tsukini. With horses this rule work too - white horses strongly differ from the black ones. It doesn't make to build spaceships any sense, it is possible as to travel simply on horses. Masters of life specially changed a genotype of horses so that the horse had no wisdom teeth, on a place of these teeth at a horse are destiny which don't stir a horse is. I have a contract with some breeds of horses - with black and red breeds. It is necessary to tell that Riders existed during existence of Atlantis and They were at war with Atlases. Besides, Riders are far ancestors Lunarians from the Moon. The first short-sighted look Riders on horses are representatives of a primitive civilization. Actually is a far future of mankind. This is all proven with science! The horsepeople have sent us a message! unvote: zeener diode vote: sario Really outside of the box move here for a scum Lulz. Originally Posted by Meeko Tell me, do horse riders hate shoes? Is that proven science also? Meeko has zero effs to give about Lulz being under pressure. He's talking to him, though. Originally Posted by guiri That's true, it's so long ago I'd forgotten, but I voted him for exactly the same thing, and he was almost lynched for it. It's annoying that he's not changed his ways since then but it's a null tell as far as lulz is concerned. Guiri unvotes Lulz. Originally Posted by guiri And like the previous game, I don't have an issue with unexplained votes, in fact there was a logical explanation for them, my issue is, and was, that he's made zero other contributions to the game, no comments, no thoughts, no engagement with other players, just a naked vote. Obviously not a scum tell though. Yeah, because it's really early day one. Focus less on what Lulz is doing, focus on what the group en masse is doing. Originally Posted by guiri Hmm, maybe it was better when he posted nothing but a vote Guiri doesn't like lulz either, nor does he want to establish lulz' credibility. Originally Posted by Sario Ok, first we had Pizza with his constant random chatter, then all of sudden here comes lulz from way out of left field with space horses. I just.... Sario doesn't want to establish Lulz' credibility either. Originally Posted by lulz ....... Originally Posted by lulz That's shorthand for Sario's frustration being fake. No reason to be frustrated based on the game state. This is true, and a solving point. Originally Posted by lulz Guiri's point was a fine enough one. Zeener was RVS, and there's a least one person who's on my wagon who's scum. I attract scum votes like flies to shit. Speaking of shit... 100% CHANCE one of these three is scum... Guiri, lightfoot, mahaloth. EWWW, ALL three of these "serious votes" are awful but... since Guiri has attempted to provide content we can rule him out. Lightfoot and Mahaloth's posts are equally gross. But Mahaloth just came off one of the worst games I've ever seen from a townie so I'm gonna ignore her for now. This post from Lightfoot pings particularly scummy... Like if something is out of character for Guiri why did you simply mention in and then not place a vote there? If you know my naked votes are totally in-character and normal how could you not do anything about guiri's out of character play here? While I most certainly believe that most games should revolve around me because my ego is so large it has it's own gravity well, I would like to know why you're waiting for me? What if I'm a lurker? unvote: sario vote: lightfoot Look at this, this is amazing for scums in his position. It may or may not be good villaging but it looks like villaging. Bolded- this is a good point. Why do you think I lent Lulz a hand on his suspects? Originally Posted by lulz Well I hope you got what you needed because I clued you in to the future... MOD V/LA until 8/3/2015 (monday) I'm in a final fantasy tactics A.I. tournament and I need the time to fine tune my team of Ninjas. .... Originally Posted by Mahaloth I don't like the way lulz has to be so negative and abrasive and I'm really considering never playing with him again. I honestly didn't remember the username lulz when this game got going or I may not have played. He was, in the last game, abrasive and verbally abusive(and dead wrong, by the way). I'm not quitting in this game because is screws everyone over, but I just want to go on record that lulz may not be the kind of player we want around her. Sorry, folks. At least one person told me I did nothing wrong in the last game and the person who told me so is a very experienced and skilled player. Lulz game of abrasive cocksuredness was certainly far worse than any of us. And I'm male. I even have a male wizard as my picture. More negativity toward lulz, of the kind that says "If I am scum, Lulz is not scum with me". In other words, the not-faked kind. The personal kind. Originally Posted by Dizzymrslizzy I forgot I said I would never play with him again! Wish I saw he was in this game. Blah More personal negativity toward lulz. Originally Posted by Dizzymrslizzy Mahaloth same here. He was a complete ass to me and I'm done with him policy More personal negativity toward lulz. Policy voting someone = Not a solve. I argued against it. I gave Dizzy a villa lean because she seemed the most personally offended by lulz. Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy Meh, I read all of lulz' posts. It's certainly outside of the culture here but I'm not sure he did anything either scummy or egregiously rude this game so far, and yes I read that post. If it's that bad like I said, ignore mode works, discuss post-game. Play this game now and don't use the vote as a moderator's tool plz. Conclusion.

When half the player base is voting you off, disrespecting you, hating on you, talking about you, commenting on you, prompting you to do something, or even giving you villager leans based on consistency arguments:

You are a villager a lot of the time.

Because this is not bussing. This is personal.

That was a very easy read. The easiest townread I've come across in a long, long time.

Not just lulz himself, but the entire player base basically spewed him townie. Unless there's a very specific scum team of players who barely commented on him, he's a villager a lot of the time based on just that.

But if you read him without all the "god this guy, ugggghhhh" in your minds, I think you'd come to the same damned conclusion.

Do you want to lynch scums or not?

[Askthepizzaguy]

So look at that spoiler @LightFoot, I had reason to think you weren't looking for scums. Your vote on him was based on no process I could see, and none which has been explained.

You flipped villager, yeah. But at the time you weren't flipped, and you made zero sense.

I defended lulz and pushed his suspects because I felt scums were indeed voting him.

I LOVED his theory. He had somehow done what I was trying hard to do deliberately, purely by happenstance, which was that he was generating solid reactions from almost every player.

And some reactions smelled of stinky butt. I pointed them out. I voted for the stinky butts.

Some of the stinky butts were villagers villaging badly. You weren't town-telling and you weren't looking for scumbags by any process I can understand. Sorry but not sorry.

[Askthepizzaguy]

D1.144

I don't like Mahaloth's play so far or his votes. But I'm stepping outside of that and asking him in case he's a townie, and making a point, which is that this kind of ostracism is not scum-hunting and I'd rather keep the game lighthearted.

D1.145

I meant it.

D1.146

Returning to the aforementioned hey hey I'm scum vote me and tell me why I'm scum strategy.

D1.147

See? I'm "Self-conscious", that's scummy, vote me for that.

I'm bluffing I want you to vote me as scum to have the reverse psychology effect of not getting votes, vote me for that.

D1.151 (Scathach post)

Does nothing to alleviate my suspicions, she's outright ignoring me and flying under the radar.

This post takes zero risks. Double A is also not the kind who would seriously care that much if you voted him d1, you can probably tell that from his posting style.

D1.154

There is no villager purpose for suggesting I'm not townie, so I'm clarifying right away that I am, all joking aside.

There's good confusion and bad confusion. I am trying to bait scums but I am not trying to hint I'm anything but a vanillager townie. One has a purpose, the other does not.

D1.155

Content free fluff

D1.156

Hammering at the scum read on Scathach, this isn't the Scathach I remember. Now getting really confident she's off and not just because I think of consistency only. She's not solving, she's hiding from what I can tell.

D1.159

You're attacking a thought process all humans have.

I just caught a scumbag over on TaleWorlds for doing that. She won because nooooooobody listened to me that she was attacking someone for doing something we alllllll do.

What is the thing we allllll do? I explained that in that post.

D1.160

This is an important point, so I'm being very precise and clear with what I'm saying.

D1.162

"No, no different! Only different in your mind."

It's the exact same thing. Noticing an inconsistency in a normal thinking process we all share, put it in a mafia game and it's the same damned thing. He can be scum, but that's not the reason why, because villagers will do it and there are more villagers.

And it's particularly not applicable to Double A. If he gives you a reason for his vote it's amazing. Expecting exhaustive analysis, might as well expect me to lurk.

D1.163

If I keep doing this, some scumbag will react. They have to, they can't help it.

D1.165

I clarify again, no I'm not a miller. I'm a vanilla townie. I want people to tell me why I'm scum so I can tell if their wrongness is townie thinking or scum agenda.

D1.185

Of course, but I'm doing a thing first. I can't analyze stuff if people don't take positions or can't explain their solving.

D1.186

Visor wouldn't host a Jester game, and you continue to come up with really implausible theories as to what I am and what I'm doing. It bothers me.

D1.187

It's true.

I can follow that thinking from Drink, but it's always going to be null. He might be scum he might not, but never for the reasons given. It would only be because he happened to rand scum, not because his randing scum prompted that behavior and that's how you catch him.

How do you catch him? I'm not even sure. I guess you just lynch his ass and pray you're right. I think he'd act slightly more concerned and involved, and I do test him later to see if he's got an agenda. End of Day Two, watch how I test him.

D1.188

I begin to reveal the conclusions I have reached from my pot stirring and also reveal what I was up to: I wanted to draw attention from scumbags. And I named a couple leads.

I think I drew scum attention but I also think Lulz did. It's really likely because a lot of people commented on us.

That's the beginnings of a weak analysis. It's based on stimulus and response, is the response truthful, honest, solving, reasonable, and a tell of some kind that works?

A lot of times that answer was No.

D1.191

So, SisCoy, here's how it is. You look bad, gal friend. Raised eyebrow ->

D1.194

SisCoy gives me some reason why her brainwave is off-center.

I don't think it has much to do with finding scums but I know it can account for her lower energy and enthusiasm.

I don't mark her off as townie but I consider it weighted in my analysis.

D1.217

As scum, I say one is a villager, and agree one is a scum.

Saying both are villagers risks "PIS" accusations.

I can always cause a mislynch while still defending a villager correctly and being wrong, so 1 right and 1 wrong is about where you need to be to survive as scum.

Nailing everyone's alignment correctly or way more than townies makes them go WTH pizza, scumbag.

I'm aware of this, I've stated this in previous games about looking "too townie" or too much better than others. PIS is a concept I've been familiar with since my first year doing this.

I do not, in my wildest imagination, think for one minute I can convince people I am a villager by getting the villagers correct more than you do, my alibi as scum has generally been that I'm a wrong villager this game. And I'm wrong enough as a villager where that flies.

Suddenly town-reading all the people others are scum-reading sticks out, attracts attention, and makes people wonder why.

I had been considering a soft cop claim but I decided, let's not get fancy, I need to town-tell this game, not lie outright to my team and make it harder for them to understand I'm just reading the game, not trying to manipulate it by claim.

D1.218

Don't lynch my villagers and you'll survive if I am not convinced you're scum.

Help me lynch my suspects.

Same as D2.

D1.219

Here's my price. Kill Scathach and you win 1 survived lynch.

It's not hard, and it pretty much spews Scathach not my scum partner if I am scum, so this is baaaaaaaad strategy since it's late in the round and folks aren't likely to go there.

But they could, I've seen it happen, and Scath!scum with Pizza wouldn't like this nonsense bussing for no reason on D1 with a villager hanging.

Think it through, it's bad scumming.

D1.225

I'm not overstating it. I don't have him as a lock villager.

If I was scum, you bet I would. Not this soft villager read I want to risk stuff on.

lulz is, more or less.

Get votes off of my villagers.

D1.228

Sooh is villager-telling for her, but it's a scum-tell to the group.

If my strategy as scum is to name all the townies, that's a bad strategy because it removes mislynches and puts ME closer to the process of elimination.

D1.229

I haven't said this as scum in years because it's downright suicidal to say as scum.

D1.230

Calling my play.

D1.231

I seriously couldn't come up with some BS reason to vote Zeener over my town read?

Please. I can do that standing on my head, spinning like a top.

D1.233

No lynch would prompt a reaction from someone.

And draw attention to me.

D1.234

Show me where you stand.

5:59 Bill breaks tie on purpose
6:00 Guiri re-establishes tie by mistake while trying to break the tie
6:00 Pizza breaks the tie by mistake while trying to re-establish the tie

All that free information to the town for no good reason.

I don't suck that badly as scum, guys.



That was my Day One.

All my thoughts, laid bare.

I am a villager. My name is Socrates. I have no powers, and no agenda but lynching scums. I hard claimed vanilla early because I couldn't get my suspects lynched and needed to explain why Double A and Lulz were reads, not Cop clears or masonries.

If you know who I am, you can read me villager. So try.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Taking a break.

Wanna see N1, D2, N2, whatever, lemme know. (I know you don't, but just floating that offer out there.)

I also know as scum that this is wasted effort because it's very very likely not going to be read and it's defensive AND it draws unwanted attention of the unpredictable kind that I can't manipulate.

This is different from my scum game.

And it won't budge crap if the people suspecting me are scums anyway.

[Double A]

Yeah, alright.