Clinton vs. Sanders

[Mr. Plumbean]

Hotair.com

Says it all.

Read this:

http://www.snopes.com/2016/02/11/san...uperdelegates/

[BJMoose]

Originally Posted by Khampelf

I have the same Birthday as Bill Clinton.

You poor, poor thing. . . .

Originally Posted by Mr. Plumbean

I have the same birthday as JFK's assassination.

That was my parents' anniversary. And is my older stepdaughter's birth date.

[Mr. Plumbean]

She must be a cool kid.

[BJMoose]

Yep. High school math teacher. And expectant mother.

[mswas]

Originally Posted by BrickaBracka

I have no qualms with the price, rather with the market in question.

She's selling to the people least likely to consider the needs / wants / concerns of me and everyone I know. In fact, she's selling to the people I understand to be most at fault for the recent economic upheavals and the general downturn in my earning potential. Sure, policy permitted it, however...that policy was lobbied for and guided heavily by ... wait for it ... Wall St.

This exactly.

It's about who she really represents. There is nothing wrong with representing Wall Street. If she wants to represent Wall Street, that's who she should represent.

But why should I vote for people for whom my interests and the interests of people that I know personally are merely actuarial statements?

I have gotten a fair amount of flack because I won't vote for Clinton in the general even if she wins the nomination. Clinton voters seem blind to what separates us.

I do not support her NeoLiberal agenda, and won't. That isn't going to change.

[BrickaBracka]

Really now?

Originally Posted by The Article

The Democratic National Committee has rolled back restrictions introduced by presidential candidate Barack Obama in 2008 that banned donations from federal lobbyists and political action committees.
The decision, which may provide an advantage to Hillary Clinton’s candidacy, was viewed with disappointment Friday morning by good government activists who saw it as a step backward in the effort to limit special interest influence in Washington.
“It is a major step in the wrong direction,” said longtime reform advocate Fred Wertheimer. “And it is completely out of touch with the clear public rejection of the role of political money in Washington,” expressed during the 2016 campaign.

Aye aye aye...

Who does HRC represent...who who who...if only we could somehow surmise that from some peripheral information...

A vote for Hillary would appear to be a vote to KEEP MONEY IN POLITICS.

If that's what you want, at least own it.

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by Mr. Plumbean

The case for Hillary (and reasonable concerns about Sanders): https://medium.com/@zacharyleven/the...24f#.nzbdu4zb7

Fantastic article: very clearheaded and judicious. I have no quarrel with Bernie, except for the realistic prospects for his "revolution". I think he is sowing seeds of progressive reform to be harvested in future, which is all to the good. That does not mean his time is now.

Bottom line for me is this: favor/back/prefer whomever, but when November rolls around, vote Democrat (if that is where your conscience leads you). My fear is Dems staying home due to "their" candidate not getting the nod at the convention. That's political suicide, no matter what.

And get educated about your local and state candidates; see where they fall and vote your conscience there, too. No POTUS can do it alone. I really hate heated political talks, so I'll likely bow out now.

[Nonny J. Nonnington III]

The case against Hillary.

The sad thing? If she gets the nomination I will have to vote for her, especially now that we are down one SCOTUS justice.

I go to sleep singing this to myself.

[BrickaBracka]

Originally Posted by Nonny J. Nonnington III

The case against Hillary.

The bit where she was interviewed by Terry Gross...if you can get yourself all peeved and defensive when that's your interviewer...well then you're clearly hiding something. That woman doesn't ask questions like that unless she knows the answer she's just giving you the platform to say it on. And instead of either lying about it or admiting it, HRC decided to get all pissy and claim Terry was the one making that a tough question. Well no Hillary...it wasn't tough. It was only painful for you because it was very obvious and poked through one of your lies to a very big audience.

[LonelySock]

Originally Posted by Mr. Plumbean

Hotair.com

Says it all.

Read this:

http://www.snopes.com/2016/02/11/san...uperdelegates/

Read this:

The silver lining to all this is that the superdelegates’ pledge to Clinton is not finalized, and each one can still change their vote prior to the final vote following the last state primaries. Typically, superdelegates vote in line with the popular vote when the time comes, but there is nothing requiring them to do so.

[JackieLikesVariety]

The sad thing? If she gets the nomination I will have to vote for her, especially now that we are down one SCOTUS justice.

+1

[Pere]

Hey, check out latest Quinnipiac numbers for favorability and head-to-head.

"It's certainly Sen. Bernie Sanders' moment. The Vermont firebrand leads all potential GOP rivals in raw numbers and raw emotion with the best scores for favorability and several key character traits," said Tim Malloy, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll.

[BJMoose]

Holy shit.


Somebody alert the media.

[Pere]

It's a pretty soft kind of data, because it's opinions and hypotheticals about the future... but it is data. Quinnipiac polling is a very established, serious nonpartisan thing.

We'll see how Nevada votes today.

[JackieLikesVariety]

I will proudly caucus for Bernie today...but also bring a library book in case there is a lot of waiting around.

[JackieLikesVariety]

on the whole, I don't like this video because the little girl is so young I think her voice is kind of hard to understand.

but! if you want to know how to caucus, here is the video explaining it - a couple places made me LOL like "we're inclusive!"

[Pere]

Clinton is projected to have won in Nevada. But early returns show it close, and like all Dem contests AIUI, delegate allocation is proportional, so Jackie still helped Bernie put some points on the board.

[JackieLikesVariety]

our precinct was almost a dead heat: 3 delegates each for Hillary and Bernie

since this is a red state that the Hillary people thought would be a breeze I call it a win!

[Nonny J. Nonnington III]

And so it begins. 10 days to Super Tuesday and the calls have started.

"Hello, Nonny, I am calling to ask you to vote for Hillary. She really needs your vote!"

She sounded nice enough, but I let it go to the machine. I will definitely pick up for Bernie - especially if they sound young and motivated. I want to give whatever positive reinforcement I can.

[SmartAleq]

Yup, Hillary is spending way more money and digging way deep into the shitty tricks list just to, basically, break even. Her victory appears Pyrrhic from over here, and Bernie ain't gonna let up on her. Hillary gets really unpleasant when she gets challenged, I expect she'll just keep showing her true colors and everybody will get to see if they like those colors enough to deal with them for four years. I'm thinking not so much.

[Farad'n]

As an expatriate watching this election with amusement and horror, I thought I'd ask this (non-serious) question in this, the most active Democratic thread:

What on earth possessed Hillary to give the internet a clip of herself barking like a dog? At the very least, I had always thought she was an intelligent woman.

[JackieLikesVariety]

Originally Posted by SmartAleq

Yup, Hillary is spending way more money and digging way deep into the shitty tricks list just to, basically, break even. Her victory appears Pyrrhic from over here, and Bernie ain't gonna let up on her. Hillary gets really unpleasant when she gets challenged, I expect she'll just keep showing her true colors and everybody will get to see if they like those colors enough to deal with them for four years. I'm thinking not so much.

I wish she would take this as support FOR Bernie & his positions rather than against her (I know some of it is, but not me) - get the message they should team up? he can be the VP.

there's no chance of that, is there?

[SmartAleq]

Clintons don't think like that, too competitive. Hillary is pulling out the same tired ass attacks she used with such small success against Obama in '08--I'm waiting for one of her stupid operatives to mock up a pic of Bernie in a turban next.

[BrickaBracka]

Originally Posted by Farad'n

As an expatriate watching this election with amusement and horror, I thought I'd ask this (non-serious) question in this, the most active Democratic thread:

What on earth possessed Hillary to give the internet a clip of herself barking like a dog? At the very least, I had always thought she was an intelligent woman.

What's this referring to?

[Farad'n]

Originally Posted by BrickaBracka

What's this referring to?

In context.

Some of the beginning of the fun that's going to last longer than this election cycle.

[Argument Clinic]

Originally Posted by JackieLikesVariety

I wish she would take this as support FOR Bernie & his positions rather than against her (I know some of it is, but not me) - get the message they should team up? he can be the VP.

there's no chance of that, is there?

Good lord no.

I don't particularly like her, but Sanders is a dud. You Left fringies may adore this bullshit, but he's out in the Lefty version of the Pauls on the right. Stuff for your fringey fantasy fulfillment, not anything practical.

The guy was a failure in the Congress, passing no legislation, having him a Veep and a heart-attack away from the Presidency.... No thank you.

Good that he's keeping her sharp for the Fall, but the idea of this guy near the Presidency - nope, I'd sooner vote for Trump who I am guessing is actually really pretty liberal except for this racism and sheer opportunism.

[BrickaBracka]

Originally Posted by Farad'n

In context.

Some of the beginning of the fun that's going to last longer than this election cycle.

Why doesn't someone Howard Dean that shit...seriously I'd love to see this be the clip she's remembered for. Just play it nonstop on repeat the way the media did when Howard Dean made a perfectly reasonable yell (in context) during a victory speech.

[Khampelf]

Running dogs of imperial capitalism, comrade. Sanders is much more appropriate choice.

That and she's just bitch.

Low hanging fruit, but Soviet.

[Pere]

Originally Posted by Argument Clinic

I don't particularly like her, but Sanders is a dud.
...
The guy was a failure in the Congress, passing no legislation...

FTR, Bernie Sanders was a cosponsor on 206 bills that have become law, between his time in the House and Senate. He works with his colleagues to get anything done that he sees as positive for the country. He also introduces, on his own, plenty of bills that get parked in committee. These are typically noble initiatives, supported by research and thoughtfully crafted, that are simply at odds with the priorities of too many others to stand a chance of passage. I don't agree with all of them, but I am certain that the country would be in better shape if more of his ideas had been enacted. It is normal, by the way, for Senators to introduce far more bills than ever reach a floor vote: this is or was true of Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, and Marco Rubio as well.

[Argument Clinic]

Bullshit metric. I'm perfectly happy with the conclusion he's a socialist fringey posturer who's not effective.

I don't want this guy in 100 miles of the Presidency - never mind that the Republicans would clean his clock, whatever the fringey Left here wants to fantasize.

[Borborygmi]

Originally Posted by Argument Clinic

The guy was a failure in the Congress, passing no legislation,

Originally Posted by Pere

FTR, Bernie Sanders was a cosponsor on 206 bills that have become law,

Originally Posted by Argument Clinic

Bullshit metric.

[BrickaBracka]

Originally Posted by Argument Clinic

Bullshit metric.

What metric would you use?

Who meets your high standards according to that metric?

[BJMoose]

It'd be interesting to hear what, if anything, Rubio and Cruz have given us.

[Nonny J. Nonnington III]

Originally Posted by BJMoose

It'd be interesting to hear what, if anything, Rubio and Cruz have given us.

Agita.

[Jaglavak]

Originally Posted by Argument Clinic

I don't want this guy in 100 miles of the Presidency

That's a good enough endorsement for me. Feel the Bern!

[Glazer]

Originally Posted by BJMoose

It'd be interesting to hear what, if anything, Rubio and Cruz have given us.

Government shutdowns and default panics.

[JackieLikesVariety]

I'd sooner vote for Trump who I am guessing is actually really pretty liberal except for this racism and sheer opportunism.

I'm perfectly happy not caring what you think.

[stichomythia]

Originally Posted by Mr. Plumbean

Hotair.com

Says it all.

Read this:

http://www.snopes.com/2016/02/11/san...uperdelegates/

I remember the same nonsense being trotted out during the 2008 campaign. Hillary kept running long after it became mathematically impossible for her to win, and whenever anyone pointed this out, the rote answer was "Nope! Depends on the superdelegates!" It was never a real factor then and it isn't now.

[Pere]

I'm not sure which you think is nonsense--the idea that superdelegates would elevate someone who was not the primary winner, or that they would not.

[stichomythia]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

Fantastic article: very clearheaded and judicious. I have no quarrel with Bernie, except for the realistic prospects for his "revolution". I think he is sowing seeds of progressive reform to be harvested in future, which is all to the good. That does not mean his time is now.

Bottom line for me is this: favor/back/prefer whomever, but when November rolls around, vote Democrat (if that is where your conscience leads you). My fear is Dems staying home due to "their" candidate not getting the nod at the convention. That's political suicide, no matter what.

And get educated about your local and state candidates; see where they fall and vote your conscience there, too. No POTUS can do it alone. I really hate heated political talks, so I'll likely bow out now.

This is EXACTLY how I feel about it. I'm supporting Hillary in my state's caucus, but if Bernie is the nominee I'll vote for him. I have some misgivings about the realism what he's promising, but I think his presence in the campaign is a net positive.

I don't understand the people who are vowing to sit out the election if Hillary is the nominee. How can that possibly help, given what's at stake with the SCOTUS vacancy and the GOP's vows to dismantle ACA? The damage that Trump, Cruz, or Rubio could do in four years is mind-boggling.

My far-left friends insist that four years of GOP devastation would teach the party (and the country) a lesson, and result in progressive leaders sweeping into power and ruling for a generation. Personally, that strikes me as utter fantasy, and makes about as much sense as suicide bombing.

[SmartAleq]

That strikes me quite a lot like those shitty abusive parents who threaten a crying child with "I'll GIVE you something to cry about!" The cure is worse than the symptom.

[McNutty]

Originally Posted by stichomythia

I don't understand the people who are vowing to sit out the election if Hillary is the nominee.

It's a phenomenon known as "being full of shit."

[BJMoose]

When Clinton finally admitted Obama had whupped her, eighteen percent of her supporters said they'd vote for McCain. God knows what that was about.

[Borborygmi]

Originally Posted by BJMoose

When Clinton finally admitted Obama had whupped her, eighteen percent of her supporters said they'd vote for McCain. God knows what that was about.

In 2008 I saw a TV journalist interviewing a Clinton supporter at the time of Clinton's concession to Obama. She was devastated and apparently the predominant issue for her was to have a woman elected to high office. She was immediately throwing her support to the McCain/Palin ticket. I don't know how much of the 18% is attributable to that mindset but that was the premise of the TV report I was watching and at least some of Clinton's supporters felt this way. At the risk of letting my male privilege show, I can tell you that my mind boggled.

[Pere]

Remember that when McCain picked Palin, she essentially presented herself as a play for those people.

Originally Posted by CNN

"It was rightly noted in Denver this week that Hillary [Clinton] left 18 million cracks in the highest and hardest glass ceiling in America, but it turns out the women of America aren't finished yet and we can shatter that glass ceiling once and for all," she said as McCain introduced her as his choice Friday.

The women of America have a thing to do, and they can do it with Palin as well as with Clinton.

I also remember that, even before that, there was a cadre of bitter Clinton supporters who actively campaigned against Obama from June to November, PUMA (Party Unity My Ass) and Just Say No Deal. They had websites, gear, and an actual PAC.

[stichomythia]

Originally Posted by Borborygmi

In 2008 I saw a TV journalist interviewing a Clinton supporter at the time of Clinton's concession to Obama. She was devastated and apparently the predominant issue for her was to have a woman elected to high office. She was immediately throwing her support to the McCain/Palin ticket. I don't know how much of the 18% is attributable to that mindset but that was the premise of the TV report I was watching and at least some of Clinton's supporters felt this way. At the risk of letting my male privilege show, I can tell you that my mind boggled.

As I recall, some of the disgruntled Hillary fans saw McCain as a placeholder until 2012, when Hillary could run again. They viewed him as a decent guy and a moderate who wouldn't do too much damage for four years; when he ran for a second term, Hillary would make her triumphant return and send him off to retirement.

[BJMoose]

There might be something to that. My own knee-jerk reaction was that the deserters simply were racists. That was too simplistic, of course, but doubtless some of them were.

[Khampelf]

My early voting primary ballot is in the mailbox waiting for tomorrow's pick up.

Now I can say, no matter what else happens, "Don't blame me, I voted for Bernie."

[eleanorigby]

I'm no apologist for rabid Hillary supporters--that PUMA nonsense was (and is, if it still exists) as any teabagger. I'm not for her because she's female, although that is a factor (it's not the decisive one by any means).

My mother once knew someone who wouldn't vote for JFK because she didn't like his taste in neckties. PEOPLE ARE CRAZY.

[lmiller95]

Originally Posted by Khampelf

My early voting primary ballot is in the mailbox waiting for tomorrow's pick up.

Now I can say, no matter what else happens, "Don't blame me, I voted for Bernie."

Yeah!!