Soviet Mafia Day One

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by Inner Stickler

There's definitely no more than 6 and if someone is dead on Day 2, no less than 1.

Can you help me follow the second bit?

[SNFaulkner]

If there was less than 1, there would've been no kill.

[Biotop]

If I am going to kill by will of the people, I need to get some of that will.

[SNFaulkner]

Originally Posted by Biotop

If I am going to kill by will of the people, I need to get some of that will.

To quote Flash Gordon (since I can't link a clip):

Prince Thun: l can offer you nothing except my loyalty.

Ming: Prince Thun, we prize nothing more highly.
- And how great is this loyalty?

Thun: Without measure.

Ming: We are delighted to hear it. Show us this loyalty. Throw yourself onto your sword.

[Biotop]

Originally Posted by SNFaulkner

To quote Flash Gordon (since I can't link a clip):

Prince Thun: l can offer you nothing except my loyalty.

Ming: Prince Thun, we prize nothing more highly.
- And how great is this loyalty?

Thun: Without measure.

Ming: We are delighted to hear it. Show us this loyalty. Throw yourself onto your sword.

I notice your avatar is still a Capitalist eagle.

[SNFaulkner]

Originally Posted by Biotop

I notice your avatar is still a Capitalist eagle.

It's a duck. And I have no clue what political persuasions ducks signify.

[Biotop]

Originally Posted by SNFaulkner

It's a duck. And I have no clue what political persuasions ducks signify.

Looks like an eagle to me.

[Biotop]

Originally Posted by SNFaulkner

It's a duck. And I have no clue what political persuasions ducks signify.

If only I was allowed to post all the many links between ducks and Capitalist greed.

[SNFaulkner]

Originally Posted by Biotop

If only I was allowed to post all the many links between ducks and Capitalist greed.

Uh huh. Just quote the juicy parts. And by "quote" I mean "spew propaganda and heresy"

[Biotop]

"A claim for equality of material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers without ducks." - - Friedrch Hayek

"The problem of social organization is how to set up an arrangement under which greed will do the least harm, capitalism with feathers is that kind of a system." - - Milton Friedman

"The great and abiding lesson of American history, particularly the cold war, is that the engine of capitalism, the individual, the magnificent teal, is mightier than any collective." - - Rand Paul

I could go on...

[SNFaulkner]

Originally Posted by Biotop

"A claim for equality of material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers without ducks." - - Friedrch Hayek

"The problem of social organization is how to set up an arrangement under which greed will do the least harm, capitalism with feathers is that kind of a system." - - Milton Friedman

"The great and abiding lesson of American history, particularly the cold war, is that the engine of capitalism, the individual, the magnificent teal, is mightier than any collective." - - Rand Paul

I could go on...

Please do.

[Biotop]

Any suspicions on players, SNF?

[SNFaulkner]

Not this early. And not with the minimal effort I've put in so far.

[Biotop]

Originally Posted by SNFaulkner

Not this early. And not with the minimal effort I've put in so far.

Scum will probably make their opinions known. It is up to Town that the will of the people be the will of the good guys.

[LightFoot]

I don't think we should execute someone for a bad idea (Maha)

Perhaps someone not sharing any ideas?

It is early n game and I don't usually want to lynch low posters but if that low poster has little to no game input there might be a target?

I am spitballing and watching TV

[Biotop]

Originally Posted by LightFoot

I don't think we should execute someone for a bad idea (Maha)

Perhaps someone not sharing any ideas?

It is early n game and I don't usually want to lynch low posters but if that low poster has little to no game input there might be a target?

I am spitballing and watching TV

My biggest qualm with Mahaloth's bad idea is he wouldn't let it go and cast suspicions on those promoting the better idea. That said, if I was Scum I would probably support the good idea and not the bad one.

[Inner Stickler]

For the record, a Mahaloth execution is acceptable to me.

I am not as sure about the utility of a lynch the lurker strategy at the moment. My recollection is that in games without many power roles, vanilla town sometimes fade away as they feel like they have nothing to do. I would imagine that at least for the first few cycles, scum will be more active.

[Silverjan]

I'm sorry that I haven't said a lot, I don't seem to have a lot to say. I am not sure if I want to vote for someone that I think is scum for the commissar or for someone that I think is Town. I am thinking a lot about the game though even though I don't feel as if I have a lot to add to it. I do have a small Town feel list though.

[Inner Stickler]

I am thinking that as long as we don't repeat commissars until everyone living has had a turn and the existing commissar investigates the previous commissar, it doesn't matter if a scum or town is commissar.

Even if by accident or subtle manipulation, we elect a chain of scum commissars, eventually, the chain must end and that is the point at which we can begin resolving alignments.

I am also trying to think through the effects of the fact that by the time we've gone through several cycles, there will be a number of one sided masonrys where one player knows absolutely that they can trust another player. The investigated player can't reciprocate unless they burn an investigation, but even being one-sided has to help, right?

[TexCat]

So. only 4 of us have voted for a commissar? And I have no idea what the status of Biotop's kill is. I still dislike Lightfoot's plan of equating voting for commissar with voting for the kill, and it's unclear to me what Biotop is going to do. What ever happened to this:

Originally Posted by Biotop

This is also true. But that's why we have arguments and discussion. If I am chosen Executioner, I will say who I think should be killed and make my case. If more think otherwise though, I bow to that collective wisdom.

Biotop, does your vote for Mahaloth for commissar mean that you think he should be killed? And is the case on him more than him refusing to promise to do the people's will?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm still in favor of a Logic kill. I became suspicious of Logic with this post that looked like a smudge on Lightfoot.

Originally Posted by TexCat

Could you explain/elaborate please?

And I never saw Logic answer this question.

Logic also refused to submit to the people's will, but didn't do it quite as boldly as Mahaloth which is more suspicious in my mind.

Originally Posted by Logic

In the unlikely event I am elected executioner, I DO NOT pledge to simply kill the name given to me. However, if two non-me names are given, I will kill only within that pair.

If elected commissar, I will investigate anyone the group seems neccesary, excepting only someone that has already been investigated more than once already. I shall use my best judgment in that particular case.

And I'm not wild about the following post. Again the smudge on Lightfoot. And it looks like he doesn't want to take credit for his vote on Mahaloth.

Originally Posted by Logic

I'm presently leaning that our executioner should be contested, and dont like a runaway vote for Biotop.

I have nothing personally against Biotop, but I'm going to vote for a competitor.

The next highest are all tied with 2 votes, and are TexCat, myself, and mahaloth.

Lightfoot presently voting Texcat tells me not there for now.

Logic has not voted for a kill or a commissar today.

[Suburban Plankton]

Howdy all...it was one of those weeks. I'm back now, but haven't looked at the game since about Tuesday...give me a bit to see what I've missed...

[Biotop]

Currently my vote is for Mahaloth both for Commissar and also for execution. However, my thinking is that because I will not be around for the last seven hours of Day, we should separate our votes for kill and Commissar. That way the deadline for kill votes is 8am Monday. If you vote for the execution like this

Execute Mahaloth

then it will be easier to figure out who I am supposed to execute. Once I send the execution order, the Commissar vote and debate can continue.

[Silverjan]

Originally Posted by Biotop

Currently my vote is for Mahaloth both for Commissar and also for execution. However, my thinking is that because I will not be around for the last seven hours of Day, we should separate our votes for kill and Commissar. That way the deadline for kill votes is 8am Monday. If you vote for the execution like this

Execute Mahaloth

then it will be easier to figure out who I am supposed to execute. Once I send the execution order, the Commissar vote and debate can continue.

I hate to say this but I don't understand your way of thinking about Mahaloth at the moment. If Mahaloth is executed and you also vote for him as Commissar, then effectively you won't have a vote down for the Commissar.

[Silverjan]

Originally Posted by Inner Stickler

I am thinking that as long as we don't repeat commissars until everyone living has had a turn and the existing commissar investigates the previous commissar, it doesn't matter if a scum or town is commissar.

Even if by accident or subtle manipulation, we elect a chain of scum commissars, eventually, the chain must end and that is the point at which we can begin resolving alignments.

I am also trying to think through the effects of the fact that by the time we've gone through several cycles, there will be a number of one sided masonrys where one player knows absolutely that they can trust another player. The investigated player can't reciprocate unless they burn an investigation, but even being one-sided has to help, right?

I agree that we need a different Commissar every Night.

[Biotop]

Originally Posted by Silverjan

I agree that we need a different Commissar every Night.

But who do you want me to kill toDay?

[Biotop]

Originally Posted by Silverjan

I hate to say this but I don't understand your way of thinking about Mahaloth at the moment. If Mahaloth is executed and you also vote for him as Commissar, then effectively you won't have a vote down for the Commissar.

If I end up sending in the Execution order on Mahaloth then I will pick another potential Commissar for a vote. I am just really split on him. No one else has done anything quite as Scummy as promoting a vig play over a lynch play and then accusing those who oppose that idea of "trying to look Townie" instead of rightly being against a bad idea. On the other hand, that seems too Scummy to be Scum. So I am torn.

I hope that the next Commissar will be investigated, so if Mahaloth becomes the Commissar instead of being executed we can learn his alignment soon enough. And if he is Town then maybe he can even find Scum.

[Silverjan]

Originally Posted by Biotop

If I end up sending in the Execution order on Mahaloth then I will pick another potential Commissar for a vote. I am just really split on him. No one else has done anything quite as Scummy as promoting a vig play over a lynch play and then accusing those who oppose that idea of "trying to look Townie" instead of rightly being against a bad idea. On the other hand, that seems too Scummy to be Scum. So I am torn.

I hope that the next Commissar will be investigated, so if Mahaloth becomes the Commissar instead of being executed we can learn his alignment soon enough. And if he is Town then maybe he can even find Scum.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I am also torn about Mahaloth and if he becomes the Commissar then he should be investigated on N2. I think I would rather he was investigated than executed because he might just feel differently about the Executioners role and he is actually Town.



I do like Texcats case on Logic for the execution but I am not sure enough of anyone yet and I know we don't have that long to go. I also don't like the smudges on LightFoot, she could well be scum but I don't think her comments make her seem that way to me, I think she is just feeling her way into this game, as am I.

[Silverjan]

Brownie55 and Merestil Haye haven't posted at all toDay as far as I can tell.

[Silverjan]

Originally Posted by brownie55

Could you explain/elaborate please?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have the same feeling. Lightfoot seems to want to complicate the game and sow confusion.

I am now running for executioner on the kill lightfoot platform. Let's discuss.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Merestil Haye

Comrades!

We have spoken about the trustworthiness of the candidates for Executionor! While I am sure we should all lend our wholehearted support to the Revolution, capitalist recidivists are sneaky and underhanded!

Comrade Lightfoot seeks to sow confusion in the minds of all about using their judgement and the information that comes available throughout the Day to choose the target for death!

Comrade Mahaloth seems sure that he should be chosen! Terminus Est!

Comrade Logic suggests that should he be voted Executionor he will choose from the top two candidates - unless he is one! This is reasonable!


for Executionor.

I speak against killing the comrade lurker because they lurk! Have some better reason! Later, should comrade lurker still lurk, we can revisit!

These two posts caught my eye, could it be a scum collaboration to try and get LightFoot killed?

[Silverjan]

Grrr, why are my quotes being funny, maybe I should preview first grrr.

[Merestil Haye]

Greetings, Comrades of the Giraffe Soviet!

... ok, that's enough of the revolutionary jargon. I'll stick to English from now on.

As far as I can see, the only solid information we will get is what action a player takes with the power voted them. It's easier to verify whatthe Executioner does with their power than it isto verify the Comissar's action, but their claims of results will nonetheless be susceptible to analysis, and enough such information may help us find the recidivist capitalists hiding among the sea of peasantry.

(Yes yes, but what are you going to call the Mafia analogue faction when you've decided never to use the term "scum"?)

It follows that, at this point, I don't much care who has any given role. I'm prepared to accept either role as I know my own motives are pure, but anyone can be elected.

So.

for Comissar.

for Comissar.

[Biotop]

Originally Posted by Merestil Haye

Greetings, Comrades of the Giraffe Soviet!

... ok, that's enough of the revolutionary jargon. I'll stick to English from now on.

As far as I can see, the only solid information we will get is what action a player takes with the power voted them. It's easier to verify whatthe Executioner does with their power than it isto verify the Comissar's action, but their claims of results will nonetheless be susceptible to analysis, and enough such information may help us find the recidivist capitalists hiding among the sea of peasantry.

(Yes yes, but what are you going to call the Mafia analogue faction when you've decided never to use the term "scum"?)

It follows that, at this point, I don't much care who has any given role. I'm prepared to accept either role as I know my own motives are pure, but anyone can be elected.

So.

for Comissar.

for Comissar.

But who do you want me to kill?

[Silverjan]

So nothing much has happened since this morning.

Biotop, my vote for you to kill is Logic

As I said earlier, I agree with Texcats reasoning and I am not happy with 3 people thinking that Lightfoot could be scum based on nothing but LF being LF.

My scum team at the moment is Logic, Brownie55 and Merestil Haye: with perhaps Maha being involved too.

That's because I have no idea how many scum we have.

[Silverjan]

I am a bit frustrated cos I don't know how we are going to actually make our votes for the lynch stand out. Can we have a discussion about that?

[Dead Cat]

Hey all, sorry for going AWOL, and thanks for not posting pages and pages for me to catch up.

Firstly, I just reread the rules and I don't think anyone has picked up on a very important point. The Executioner's kill appears to be optional, not mandatory. Now, in normal Mafia I, generally against no lynch, since killing people is the only solid way for Town to get the information to help them win. In this setup, kills gain Town no information whatsoever. So, especially on Day 1, surely no kill is by far the best option for a town executioner? Or am I missing something?

If not, I am strongly in favour of Biotop not submitting a kill at all toDay, indeed I will be extremely suspicious if he does kill someone.

As for commissar, I don't think it much matters who we vote for commissar toDay. So,

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by Silverjan

I am a bit frustrated cos I don't know how we are going to actually make our votes for the lynch stand out. Can we have a discussion about that?

I for one expect the executioner to be paying attention

When the time comes I would hope Biotop will check their tally with ours.

Battery dying will return

[TexCat]

For commissar. It looks like second place might matter and I still think we're better off with a townie commissar.

[Biotop]

Who I should kill:

01. Mahaloth: Kill Lightfoot
02. SNFaulkner: No preference yet
03. brownie55: No preference yet
04. Logic: No preference yet
05. Silverjan: Kill Logic
06. Suburban Plankton: No preference yet
07. LightFoot: No preference yet
08. TexCat: Kill Logic
09. Dead Cat: No preference yet
10. Biotop: Kill Mahaloth
11. Merestil Haye: No preference yet
12. Inner Stickler: No preference yet

Is this accurate for everyone?

[Biotop]

Originally Posted by Dead Cat

Hey all, sorry for going AWOL, and thanks for not posting pages and pages for me to catch up.

Firstly, I just reread the rules and I don't think anyone has picked up on a very important point. The Executioner's kill appears to be optional, not mandatory. Now, in normal Mafia I, generally against no lynch, since killing people is the only solid way for Town to get the information to help them win. In this setup, kills gain Town no information whatsoever. So, especially on Day 1, surely no kill is by far the best option for a town executioner? Or am I missing something?

If not, I am strongly in favour of Biotop not submitting a kill at all toDay, indeed I will be extremely suspicious if he does kill someone.

As for commissar, I don't think it much matters who we vote for commissar toDay. So,

I don't understand why voting for me to make the kill and voting for a lynch to make the kill is any different.

[Dead Cat]

Originally Posted by Biotop

Who I should kill:

01. Mahaloth: Kill Lightfoot
02. SNFaulkner: No preference yet
03. brownie55: No preference yet
04. Logic: No preference yet
05. Silverjan: Kill Logic
06. Suburban Plankton: No preference yet
07. LightFoot: No preference yet
08. TexCat: Kill Logic
09. Dead Cat: No preference yet
10. Biotop: Kill Mahaloth
11. Merestil Haye: No preference yet
12. Inner Stickler: No preference yet

Is this accurate for everyone?

Not accurate for me, I am expressing a very strong preference for no kill.

Originally Posted by Biotop

I don't understand why voting for me to make the kill and voting for a lynch to make the kill is any different.

It's not, what is different is that when someone is lynched, they are revealed as Town or Scum. This eventually should help Town to identify who is who. In this game, when someone is executed, their alignment is not revealed, so random deaths are much more likely to help Scum, especially early on. So why kill anyone toDay at all? It's likely to just do Scum's work for them. As I see it, the greater we can make the ratio of investigations to kills, the more chance we have. Except of course if we can virtually confirm a scum, then they're probably worth eliminating from the game with an execution.

[Biotop]

Originally Posted by Biotop

Who I should kill:

01. Mahaloth: Kill Lightfoot
02. SNFaulkner: No preference yet
03. brownie55: No preference yet
04. Logic: No preference yet
05. Silverjan: Kill Logic
06. Suburban Plankton: No preference yet
07. LightFoot: No preference yet
08. TexCat: Kill Logic
09. Dead Cat: No Kill
10. Biotop: Kill Mahaloth
11. Merestil Haye: No preference yet
12. Inner Stickler: No preference yet

Is this accurate for everyone?

b

Corrected for Dead Cat to no kill.

[Dead Cat]

Biotop, I see you are unconvinced by my argument for no kill? Why? I'd also like others to weigh in if at all possible. It's too quiet, as so often.

[LightFoot]

for the executioner to consider.
They started the nonsense of me being untrustworthy for sharing my idea(s)
Those that followed along with that train are also suspect to me.

If by chance Logic is voted Commissar that is ok too because they will be watched

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by Dead Cat

Biotop, I see you are unconvinced by my argument for no kill? Why? I'd also like others to weigh in if at all possible. It's too quiet, as so often.

It was discussed when I brought it up earlier

We don't have a lynch- in later Days maybe it could be a viable option but we need information early on and no kill doesn't give us any advantage right now. IMO

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by Dead Cat

~
It's not, what is different is that when someone is lynched, they are revealed as Town or Scum. This eventually should help Town to identify who is who. In this game, when someone is executed, their alignment is not revealed, so random deaths are much more likely to help Scum, especially early on. So why kill anyone toDay at all? It's likely to just do Scum's work for them. As I see it, the greater we can make the ratio of investigations to kills, the more chance we have. Except of course if we can virtually confirm a scum, then they're probably worth eliminating from the game with an execution.

It is like a vote record is in a regular game with reveals.

Who is chosen and who chooses them will give us information down the road.
We have a way to investigate alignment and we will use it-

No Kill is like laying down and letting Scum have their way with us.

[Biotop]

Originally Posted by Biotop

Who I should kill:

01. Mahaloth: Kill Lightfoot
02. SNFaulkner: No preference yet
03. brownie55: No preference yet
04. Logic: No preference yet
05. Silverjan: Kill Logic
06. Suburban Plankton: No preference yet
07. LightFoot: Kill Logic
08. TexCat: Kill Logic
09. Dead Cat: No kill
10. Biotop: Kill Mahaloth
11. Merestil Haye: No preference yet
12. Inner Stickler: No preference yet

Is this accurate for everyone?

Updated. If nothing changes I kill Logic.


It makes no sense to not kill IMHO. Not knowing alignment of the kill will be an everyDay problem. As Lightfoot says, not executing anyone turns ALL the killing over to Scum.

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by Pleonast

Current Day One Vote Count

Given these votes as of Post 90, Mahaloth will be elected.

Mahaloth has 5 votes from Biotop (3), Inner Stickler (13-30), SNFaulkner (22), Silverjan (73), Merestil Haye (81), Dead Cat (85).
LightFoot has 2 votes from Mahaloth (27), TexCat (87).
Merestil Haye has 1 vote from Merestil Haye (81).
Inner Stickler has 1 vote from Inner Stickler (13-30), TexCat (14).

to see

[Biotop]

REMEMBER EVERYONE THAT 8am MONDAY EASTERN TIME IS THE DEADLINE FOR ME TO GET KILL REQUESTS. AFTER THAT I GO TO WORK AND PROBABLY CANNOT GET ONLINE UNTIL AFTER THE 12:00 PACIFIC TIME* DEADLINE.

(* I confirmed that EOD time with Pleonast.)

[LightFoot]

at this time Maha will become our Commissar

Mahaloth How do you think the commissar should operate?

[Inner Stickler]

I would rather see mahaloth killed than logic currently but my feelings are unformed enough that I wouldn't quibble.