A Poll on Biden

[Slate]

Originally Posted by George Kaplin

Let’s just cut to the chase. Do you have a single good argument for why anyone should vote for Joe Biden apart from “He’s not Trump”?

You can't vote for any of them, so go play with a dead dog's dick.

Why do adults have to be wooed? Grow the fuck up.

[George Kaplin]

Originally Posted by Glazer

He will have the DNC working for him instead of against him. If Bernie had gotten the nomination he would have had to fight both the DNC as well as the RNC. Not to mention the mainstream media.

But if that’s the case, doesn’t the blame lie with the DNC? “Our party won’t promote its candidate if they don’t like him” doesn’t say anything about the worthiness of the candidate.

[SmartAleq]

Originally Posted by George Kaplin

But if that’s the case, doesn’t the blame lie with the DNC? “Our party won’t promote its candidate if they don’t like him” doesn’t say anything about the worthiness of the candidate.

Well, except insofar as being disliked by the DNC means you're probably a standup worthwhile sort of person to anyone who isn't a richsick donor fellator.

[Sputnik]

Originally Posted by George Kaplin

Let’s just cut to the chase. Do you have a single good argument for why anyone should vote for Joe Biden apart from “He’s not Trump”?

It's not just trump we want out. It's Pence, Barr, Pompeo, DeVos and Giuliani to name a few. To remove the fungus we must remove the mushroom. So the "anyone but trump" is probably a legitimate reason for Biden in 2020.

[Mr. Plumbean]

Originally Posted by SmartAleq

Well, except insofar as being disliked by the DNC means you're probably a standup worthwhile sort of person to anyone who isn't a richsick donor fellator.

So, Trump?

[Glazer]

Originally Posted by George Kaplin

But if that’s the case, doesn’t the blame lie with the DNC? “Our party won’t promote its candidate if they don’t like him” doesn’t say anything about the worthiness of the candidate.

Ain't life a bitch.

[George Kaplin]

Originally Posted by Slate

You can't vote for any of them, so go play with a dead dog's dick.

Why do adults have to be wooed? Grow the fuck up

Well...I can’t vote for any of them. Because I’m not American and this ludicrous clusterfuck isn’t my problem. But if I could vote, why should I vote for your guy? I mean, if I stay at home and Trump wins then at least I get to enjoy the thought of supercilious cunts like you weeping salty rage tears in front of your TVs come election night. And that ain’t nothing.

[George Kaplin]

Originally Posted by Sputnik

It's not just trump we want out. It's Pence, Barr, Pompeo, DeVos and Giuliani to name a few. To remove the fungus we must remove the mushroom. So the "anyone but trump" is probably a legitimate reason for Biden in 2020.

But how would that argument work against someone who doesn’t mind Donald Trump? Or maybe dislikes him a bit but doesn’t want to change sides because “Better the Devil you know”? Or maybe dislikes him a lot but dislikes Biden a lot, too? Seems to me that “He’s not Trump” only works on people who’ve already decided to vote against him.

[Glazer]

Clinton was not any choice I would have normally made. But I held my nose and went out of my way to vote for her. Because I could see what Trump was just from watching his stupid show. I had no idea he could possibly be as bad as he turned out to be. Now I know better. Not voting against Trump is allowing the Clothahumps of the world to choose. And even though you don't get a say in this election. Don't think it doesn't affect you.

[Sputnik]

Originally Posted by George Kaplin

But how would that argument work against someone who doesn’t mind Donald Trump? .

It doesn't. Someone doesn't mind Donald Trump probably isn't interested in a changing anything. Millions voted for him in 2016, and I'll bet millions will vote for him in 2020. I didn't want trump or Clinton in 2016, but I saw what was the lesser of two evils to vote for.

The "anyone but trump" crowd are people who can't accept someone who thinks rules are there for him to break, or that his opinion out shines the opinions of experts because his gut told him. Many of us fear 4 more years of trump screwing up everything he touches. We want anyone but trump touching it.

This is why dumping Bernie was such a big deal. Centrists would have a real problem deciding between a right wing nut job and a left wing nut job. Instead, they get something that fits, albeit poorly probably, but at least he's more centric and more likely to catch the fence sitters.

If John McCain (RIP) was running against Biden, it would be way different. Then it would be about adding up the positive and the negative facts and making a decision.

So you're right, "anyone but trump" isn't going to influence any undecided voters.

[Glazer]

If you're "undecided" at this point. You are a Trump supporter but are too ashamed to admit it publicly.

[SmartAleq]

Originally Posted by Mr. Plumbean

So, Trump?

Gotta love the way people keep following the duopoly script. No, not Trump and no, I will not be sitting out the election either. Just to clear up the usual next dumb assumption.

[Glazer]

Just because you don't have a good choice doesn't mean you have to make the worse choice. Doesn't mean you have to like it either.

[Dragonlady]

Third party voters probably got us Trump last time. Everyone who doesn't vote for someone with a good chance of defeating that idiot, might as well vote for him. The only folks who get to be "holier than thou" are the ones who get him voted out of office.

[SmartAleq]

One unintended benefit of this election is that it's removed any fig leaf either party might have had regarding who they belong to and who they work for--and it ain't us hoi polloi. The depression we're going to go through after all the bubbles burst (and they're gonna burst, no doubt about it) and the economy collapses is going to make the one in the thirties look like a fucking cakewalk. And no matter how this election turns out we will not have anything near competent leadership so the smart bet at this point is figuring out how to be a resourceful small mammal who can survive the big fireball that kills the dinosaurs. Energy self sufficiency and learn how to grow food. Don't get sick. That's what this election is telling us--that this is all we can do to make it through the next decade or so. And so it goes.

ETA: And I respectfully submit to the "third party voters gave us Trump" believers that they do a little remedial math and figure out how 1.6% of the vote managed such a feat. No, it was the people who got discouraged and didn't vote at all because their choices were too gross to contemplate who have the honor. At least third party voters (such as myself, if you'd like to huck more opprobrium my way than I've already had over the past four years--not that it's gonna do any good, mind you, but if you really feel the need to blame someone, work out) are legitimately trying to create an avenue to circumvent the complete capture of the political system by the corporate oligarchy. You're welcome.

[George Kaplin]

Originally Posted by Dragonlady

Third party voters probably got us Trump last time. Everyone who doesn't vote for someone with a good chance of defeating that idiot, might as well vote for him. The only folks who get to be "holier than thou" are the ones who get him voted out of office.

Hillary got you Trump. It’s her fault that it was close enough for 3rd parties to make a difference.

[Dragonlady]

That's what some folk would have you believe. That race was so close that is WAS third party voters that could have made a difference, in some states. She won the popular vote - that must mean the race was pretty damn close.

[Sputnik]

Originally Posted by Dragonlady

Third party voters probably got us Trump last time.

I certainly hope the last 4 years have been a wake up call to those who pouted and turned their back on the election because they didn't like the Dem choice. No matter what happens in Nov, we're still stuck with 2 idiots on SCOTUS we didn't need to have and a court that may put a knife through the heart of a woman's right to choose.

[Slate]

Originally Posted by George Kaplin

Well...I can’t vote for any of them. Because I’m not American and this ludicrous clusterfuck isn’t my problem. But if I could vote, why should I vote for your guy? I mean, if I stay at home and Trump wins then at least I get to enjoy the thought of supercilious cunts like you weeping salty rage tears in front of your TVs come election night. And that ain’t nothing.

He's not my guy, idiot, but if that's what gets you off, hey, go crazy. I didn't have a wank over all the ineffectual limey weenies crying in their Weetabix over the Corbyn fiasco, but you do you. And if you're too much of a pussy to make your own decisions like an actual adult, disenfranchise your dumbass self. Just stay home feeling smugly superior with no justification whatsoever.

Geez, I hate people.

[Sputnik]

Originally Posted by George Kaplin

Well...I can’t vote for any of them. Because I’m not American and this ludicrous clusterfuck isn’t my problem. But if I could vote, why should I vote for your guy? I mean, if I stay at home and Trump wins then at least I get to enjoy the thought of supercilious cunts like you weeping salty rage tears in front of your TVs come election night. And that ain’t nothing.

It really is a problem for you and the UK. Last I read the UK was trying to work out a favorable trade deal with President Tariff. That may screw the UK. The world certainty isn't isolated from the acts of the American Idiot in chief. It might be a smaller world than you think.

[George Kaplin]

Originally Posted by Dragonlady

That's what some folk would have you believe. That race was so close that is WAS third party voters that could have made a difference, in some states. She won the popular vote - that must mean the race was pretty damn close.

But why was the race close? It shouldn’t have been close. Hillary had all the experience, the qualifications, the connections, and everything else. What’s more, Trump ran a thoroughly amateurish campaign. Yet he still beat Hillary. That’s on her, not the third parties.

Let’s say you and I are running the 100 meters. The starting gun goes off and I immediately start running in the wrong direction. Once I’m turned around, I decide to take a quick nap at the halfway mark. A few minutes later, I start off again but then I sprain both ankles and hobble off for a sit down. Then I have a cigarette break, a cup of tea and a sandwich. Finally, I head for the finish line, strolling at a comfortable two miles per hour. However, despite all that I manage to beat you because a pigeon flew in front of you with two meters to go.

You don’t get to blame the pigeon.

[George Kaplin]

Originally Posted by Slate

He's not my guy, idiot, but if that's what gets you off, hey, go crazy. I didn't have a wank over all the ineffectual limey weenies crying in their Weetabix over the Corbyn fiasco, but you do you. And if you're too much of a pussy to make your own decisions like an actual adult, disenfranchise your dumbass self. Just stay home feeling smugly superior with no justification whatsoever.

Geez, I hate people.

”I’m an Actual! Adult!” he sobbed, flogging his e-peen mercilessly through a cloud of spittle, his face turning a worrying shade of purple...

P.S. - Telling people who don’t like Joe Biden to stay at home is precisely what Joe Biden did in Iowa. How did that work out for him? Did he win the Iowa caucus? I forget. It’s a little disconcerting that I need to tell you this, but if you’re serious about beating Trump you’re really going to need a better strategy than throwing temper tantrums like a spoilt bitch and telling fence-sitters to go fuck themselves.

[Sputnik]

Yes, America fucked up. Many of us knew it would, many of us spoke up. We lost.
Now we're stuck with an unhinged idiot driving our bus. Remember, 50% of Americans are on the left side of the IQ bell curve. They vote too.

[SmartAleq]

Biden also, during this campaign, threatened to slap someone, called another person fat, invited another one out to the parking lot for some fisticuffs, called a woman a "dog faced pony soldier," couldn't tell the difference between his sister and his wife and told everyone to vote for the other Biden after telling the audience he was running for Senator. This is the guy who took Anita Hill to the woodshed in order to get Thomas appointed to SCOTUS and congratulated himself on cooperating with Strom Thurmond to get Scalia approved. The guy who wrote the Patriot Act and that shitty Crime Bill that paved the way to our current horrendous incarceration rate--oh yeah, and was a segregationist too. Him also being a rapist is almost the least of his downchecks. But of course, when he loses miserably to Trump it will be the fault of people who voted third party--and the "blue no matter who" crowd will twist themselves into interdimensional pretzels to force themselves to believe it. And nothing will change. And so it goes.

[Dragonlady]

If he loses miserably, no.
If it is as close as the last race, then yes.
If you vote third party, you get no bitching rights about what the winner does.

[SmartAleq]

No, I get ALL the bitching rights on both sides because I did not collaborate with either of them. This bullshit US VS THEM garbage version Hunger Games we're supposed to engage in every couple years is pointless and stupid. Yes, I get to point out anyone who's being criminal and idiotic and rapey and venal and hurting people because I'm not responsible for them and I refuse to lend them my approval in any way. I've played the lesser fucking evil game for decades and I am DONE. Progressives are all about forming coalitions to get the needs of society met and the only way you do that is to respect that those around you also have needs to be met and that we can cooperate to get that done. The only people I can't find common cause with are the goddamned hoarding rich. The more a person craves and pursues wealth and power the more alien I find them to be. I'm not playing stupid games to make rich people's peepees tingle, I'm not their fucking chew toy. I'm just going to figure out how to find common cause with other working people to carve out a goodly chunk of comfort for us all and fuck it if the rich people don't like it.

[Jaglavak]

Originally Posted by George Kaplin

It’s a little disconcerting that I need to tell you this, but if you’re serious about beating Trump you’re really going to need a better strategy than throwing temper tantrums like a spoilt bitch and telling fence-sitters to go fuck themselves.

However telling you to go fuck yourself is not only my right and duty, but also a fine longstanding tradition.

[Ludovic]

Of course Trump voters are allowed to complain about Trump. I don't feel like owning everything Obama did.

[Sputnik]

Originally Posted by SmartAleq

Progressives Socialism and communism are all about forming coalitions to get the needs of society met

Karl Marx would be proud of you.

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by JackieLikesVariety

what do you mean, Rigs?

I assume Glazer is saying we need publicly funded elections and he is right. all that fundraising bullshit needs to go away, on every level.

I misread it. I thought he said we had to get our candidates from different sources. My apologies to Glazer for not rereading. I loathe threads like this and really should stick to my rule of not reading them.

[Slate]

Originally Posted by George Kaplin

”I’m an Actual! Adult!” he sobbed, flogging his e-peen mercilessly through a cloud of spittle, his face turning a worrying shade of purple...

P.S. - Telling people who don’t like Joe Biden to stay at home is precisely what Joe Biden did in Iowa. How did that work out for him? Did he win the Iowa caucus? I forget. It’s a little disconcerting that I need to tell you this, but if you’re serious about beating Trump you’re really going to need a better strategy than throwing temper tantrums like a spoilt bitch and telling fence-sitters to go fuck themselves.

Well, now I'm really mad. I'm going to vote for Trump. Is that the way this plays out in your tiny brain?

Nothing we say here matters.

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

... I loathe threads like this and really should stick to my rule of not reading them.

Do you mean the original purpose of the thread or the huge hijack it was taken on?

[What Exit?]

Race/Topic	Poll	Results	Spread
General Election: Trump vs. Biden	Economist/YouGov	Biden 47, Trump 41	Biden +6
Texas: Trump vs. Biden	PPP (D)	Trump 46, Biden 47	Biden +1
New Hampshire: Trump vs. Biden	St. Anselm	Biden 50, Trump 42	Biden +8
President Trump Job Approval	Politico/Morning Consult	Approve 44, Disapprove 52	Disapprove +8
President Trump Job Approval	Reuters/Ipsos	Approve 43, Disapprove 54	Disapprove +11
President Trump Job Approval	Rasmussen Reports	Approve 46, Disapprove 52	Disapprove +6
President Trump Job Approval	Economist/YouGov	Approve 44, Disapprove 53	Disapprove +9

Hard to believe Biden could be ahead of Trump in Texas. Though 1% is nothing and PPP is a Democratic Polling group.

[Sputnik]

Originally Posted by What Exit?

Do you mean the original purpose of the thread or the huge hijack it was taken on?

Sorry about that.

[Sputnik]

US President Donald Trump has said China "will do anything they can" to make him lose his re-election bid, stepping up his criticism of Beijing amid the coronavirus pandemic.

He told Reuters: "There are many things I can do. We're looking for what happened."
Mr Trump added: "China will do anything they can to have me lose this race."

The Republican president said he believes Beijing wants his likely Democratic challenger Joe Biden to win in November's election.

Mr Trump also said he is sceptical of data indicating Mr Biden would win.

From the BBC.

Trump apparently spends much of his time watching polls and deflecting blame to everyone else. I really hope he can't sleep at night.

[Glazer]

So China does interfere but Russia doesn't.

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by What Exit?

Do you mean the original purpose of the thread or the huge hijack it was taken on?

The huge hijack, but these types of threads almost always lead to the bile and nonsense and general divisiveness that rules American politics now. As much as I deplore the stance of several people here (and note I said deplore the stance; I did not and will not call them deplorable), they are for the most part good people who care about their neighbors, their country, and the world in general.

We cannot lose sight of that or everyone besides those in our "tribe" or even our family becomes the enemy, and to what end, pray? Putin and others in the world want nothing more than the USA in disarray and I say this as someone who actively deplores the extreme money and might of our military.

Biden is a Democrat whose positions on climate change, education, healthcare women's rights, and a host of other important topics are the same as HRC's and yes, even Bernie's to great extent. The approach may differ in details and in time line, but the thrust is there. Give him a Dem House and Senate and the man will move the mountains we now have to move, which we would NOT have had to move if HRC had been elected, but I'm not about to discuss that.

All this stuff about supposed molestation/rape; emails; child molestation in pizza parlor basements, supposed dementia, supposed rare neurological disorder vs pneumonia, supposed creepy male behavior to girls and women, calculating nature, ball-busting bitch, whiny man... whatever. It's all dross and designed to divide us Dems, to smear any and all Dem candidates, and to undermine our general faith in our system of government.

It used to be called mud-slinging and "they" will dredge up anything and everything to see what sticks. The problem is the mud-slinging business has entire networks and platforms devoted to it, and now we have an endless news cycle. And because we-the-people prefer idle entertainment and "pwning" others over serious thought and debate, this is what we have pushed to us in a fire-hose level barrage of speculation, pundrity and populism. Journalists are damned lazy these days, and their editors and media owners are even worse, BUT the news consumers (us) also have piss poor standards anymore when it comes to journalism. Time was we-the-people helped keep papers and media in line aka pushing back on crap. I see it on Twitter sometimes, almost never on FB, which, btw, are privately held companies and can publish anything they damned well want to, with no regulation at all... how about that.

I am here to tell you that our system of government has many flaws.

Like Churchill once said, "Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…"

Except that he was wrong. Those who dislike the lack of progress or don't approve of the way progress has been achieved or feel that our method is too slow and cumbersome (all valid criticisms, to a point) DO like to pretend that democracy would be perfect or all-wise... if only their preferred candidate were elected. And because they feel this strongly (at least some of them do; others simply enjoy oppositional behavior, of that I am now firmly convinced) they do what they can to drag any candidate that is not their candidate down. How this is helpful to any of us escapes me. Perhaps it makes them feel better, but at what cost to civil society and to the common good?

I have never understood this mindset: if my guy didn't win, Imma rip down, smear, talk smack, outright lie about any other candidate because.... doing so might make that candidate lose and then my PoV will be what exactly? vindicated? How is working to make Biden lose and Trump win any sort of victory toward any sort of democratic progress? It could be anyone on the Dem side and it has been... GOP does not do this (in fact, the only GOP candidate to do this was, ironically enough, Trump). It's always from the far left aimed toward Dems. It makes zero sense once the primary is over, and for us, the primary season is indeed over.

But those are just my thoughts. No doubt many here disagree and will say so. That's actually not my point. My point is these discussions are pointless. They lead nowhere but to hurt feelings, an entrenchment of already ingrained political identity, and even less ability to bridge divides in future due to defensiveness, and a strong desire to "win".

I'm not here to win. I'm here to regain living in a stable and prosperous society once the Plague caused by the novel coronavirus and the Plague that is Trump and the current GOP are gone. You want progress in this nation? Vote for Biden and vote Dem downticket. And THEN, hold those elected to a high standard. Stay involved. Bitching on the internet is not "involved". Voting in every election, going to jury duty, keeping informed re local offices and issues, county state, and national issues is being involved. So is running for local office or becoming an active part of your local progressive, Dem, GOP, whatever party.

Change is hard. Griping is easy. It takes so much to just move the needle even a small bit toward justice and equality, and it's so very easy (we've seen how easy) to undermine, destroy and divide. Entropy is always easier than creation. We, our democratic republic, cannot afford 4 more years of Trump and no amount of cynicism and contempt expressed toward the Democratic party changes that fact.

So, yes, I hate these threads. X says abc and Y counters with 123 and within 2 posts they're calling each other names. Some good that does.

I'm done/rant over.

[What Exit?]

@eleanorigby:

Good rant. I pretty much agree across the board. My candidates lost to Biden, but Biden for any and all faults is still better than Trump and he has a legit chance of winning. I very much hope he wins, serves one term and we get someone quite a bit younger and more progressive in 2024.

Trump has to go.

[Sputnik]

Interesting view of the polls in an article on CNN today. It points out that people favor Biden over trump by about 6 points, yet people think trump will win because he has a way of screwing up everything, even elections.

Now we've got a questionable election coming in Nov, at a time when the virus is believed to make a second appearance. Will people leave home to vote? We might need Devine intervention with this.

[eleanorigby]

Exactly, What Exit, and I will crawl over Covid-19 contaminated broken glass; I will face down micro-penised, AR-15 toting morons; I will do whatever it takes to vote for Biden in November.

And he is not my first choice, either.
I.Don't.Care.

And it's not just that he's "not Trump"; it's he's our only chance to save this nation, this nation that so many screech they adore and then do all manner of shite to undermine. I include in that not voting, talking about the Gment in a way that creates cynicism about it, and talking smack so that others are AFRAID to speak up (yes, I was a member of a hidden group on FB that supported HRC. Yes, I did indeed fear the trolls and the bullshit and the sheer venomous hatred aimed at HRC supporters online, and I'm talking about from the far left, never mind that shitshow that was the harassment from the GOP and Trumper/TeaPartiers).
I'm a female online; that alone makes me a target because some people suck.

My gripe is much larger than trolls on a message board or on social media, though. My gripe is how no one respects government, but then expects stellar people to run and serve. Pay your damned taxes; you are not a helpless, hapless victim of government overreach or ineptitude (except now you may well be... which is what happens when we allow corrupt, amoral, incompetent criminals into office... which is what happens when people roll their eyes and say they can't be bothered to show up for local or mid-term elections). The power resides with US, the citizens. The catch is we must exercise it collectively AND consistently.

There's a loooong history of gaming elections in this country; both parties have done it. Both parties can fall prey to corruption; there is nothing sacred about the Democratic party. At present, the GOP is rotten to the core. There was a time when it was the Dems who were the evil fucks. It can happen again, and it will, but in the meantime, we can make as much progress as is possible in a country of 330 million disparate souls, but not with the current GOP or Trump in power.

When and if it no longer aligns with my values, I will not vote Democratic UNLESS it is the lesser of 2 evils. In some ways, it is the lesser of 2 evils now, but we also don't get to dictate the terms of our deliverance, so there's that.

This all started some time ago. The initial insult was Nixon; that was the break in the integrity (helped a great deal behind the scenes by Agnew, one of the most corrupt public officials, ever. Rachel Maddow did a podcast on Spiro. Look it up). Reagan was the localized infection. Morning in America, my ass. This is also the man who once said trees cause pollution. Then came Bush 1 aka Papa Smurf; more like a thousand lights pointing toward profit, but it was Bush v Gore where the infection entered the bloodstream ala the Tea Partiers (some of the stupidest people to ever hold office and that's saying something), and Trump & Co are full blown septic shock.

America is on life-support. I don't give a rat's ass about your political leanings; I'm talking about the nation that birthed you. The problem could not be clearer: another 4 years of Trump will permanently change the basic principles of this nation, which, while always imperfectly adhered to, are a far sight better than the carnage and blight Donny 2 Scoop's buddies have planned. Who could have dreamed that a sitting senator and its majority leader would call for "blue states" to go bankrupt when his state feeds off the federal teat almost more than any other?

This is our reality. And in the face of it, allegations by a clearly unstable person, questionable "journalists" and folks with grievances (both real and perceived) are immaterial to me. I hope people can see the bigger picture. I think most can and the high turnout for Biden reflects that. I also think he gets it; it's not about him the man or even him the politician; it's about getting this country the oxygen and antibiotics it needs to survive.
If nothing else, Covid-19 has peeled back the papered-over chasms that have existed in this country for a very long time. Signs and symptoms that we once could dismiss or attribute to other things ("economic anxiety, anyone?) cannot be denied. What we do, how WE choose to respond, is everything now.

IMO, it will take a solid 10 years of full Dem-held Exec and Legislative power to put us back on course, while also tackling the judicial problem. And no, we will not all get what we want; we will not make progress fast enough, some people will still hurt, and some will fall by the wayside. That's governance; that's part of being a nation. I'm not speaking to its moral implications; I'm stating facts.

[Sputnik]

I look back on 8 years of Obama and wonder why we thought it was necessary to limit a president to a max term of 8 years, then we get trump and I wonder why terms aren't limited to a max of two years.

I agree with you Eleanor. (that's twice now)

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

eleanorigby has been making some very good posts to this thread!


Note that this is not the Tara Reade accusation, but there is an accuser of Biden whose claim is clearly fabricated:




Apparently someone tried to accuse Biden of sexually harassing her at a 2008 dinner where the records show Biden was not present. This doesn't mean Reade is wrong, she can still be right, and clearly Biden is a creep who doesn't know the meaning of the words personal space, but it also demonstrates that there are more possibilities than that.

[Doyle]

Originally Posted by Oxirane

Really? I live in NY State, a state that will overwhelmingly vote Name (D) regardless of the name...my vote is insignificant, I voted for the Libertarian last time, took me a minute to remember his name, Gary Johnson, as I could not in good conscious vote for either Clinton or Trump...and I knew it was a futile and stupid gesture on my part, but it's not like the outcome was in doubt in this state, so I would contend that your statement may be relevant in some places, but certainly isn't an absolute...

Same here, except a solid red state. Mr. Plumbean has apparently forgot about the Electoral College. Classic knee jerk reaction.

[Glazer]

I have great respect for Plumbean. Until he starts talking democratic politics. Then he loses his mind and sounds more like a tea partier talking about libtards. If he could step out of his own biases I think he'd be shocked at how he comes across.

[Sputnik]

Just when you think our government couldn't get any worse, remember what happened 50 years ago today. Kent State. A Republican administration, 'nuff said.

[Borborygmi]

For what it's worth, there's seldom any daylight between Plumbean's political posts and my own political thoughts and leanings.

Although I guess the issue immediately at hand is whether it is better to vote major party or third party if the Electoral College outcome is not in doubt, and I don't have a hard position on that one. It's kind of moot for me since Pennsylvania is in play.

[Glazer]

In all elections since the early nineties I voted Libertarian mainly from disgust with the two major parties. This past election I voted for a candidate I disliked because I thought the alternative would be a complete disaster. (Which it turned out to be.) This election I will do the same. I'm not going to vote "for" Biden. But I damned well will vote against Trump. If he wins again I don't think our Republic will survive.

[Doyle]

Please. Y'all said that 3 1/2 years ago. Most here said he wouldn't make it through his term and now he stands a decent chance for reelection. A lot of overreaction here.

[What Exit?]

Originally Posted by Glazer

In all elections since the early nineties I voted Libertarian mainly from disgust with the two major parties. This past election I voted for a candidate I disliked because I thought the alternative would be a complete disaster. (Which it turned out to be.) This election I will do the same. I'm not going to vote "for" Biden. But I damned well will vote against Trump. If he wins again I don't think our Republic will survive.

I've been all over the place but from 2004, I've effectively been a Democrat without being a Democrat. With a creeping sense of doom I saw how completely morally corrupt my old party had gotten. In 2000 I voted for Nader instead of the Repugnant Party Ticket of Bush the lesser & Cheney. I did this in a state where Gore was going to win no matter what.

So while I don't love the DNC and except for Obama their candidates have been bad, they keep running people better than the Republicans. BTW: Voting for HRC was easier for me than Kerry. Kerry/Edwards was a terrible ticket. Kerry was an idiot and Edwards slime but W. was dumber and Cheney pure fucking evil. Hillary is power hungry but overall I thought she would be competent. I know Trump too well to believe he would be anything other than an unmitigated disaster. I wish Hillary had some charisma and her husband's skill at campaigning.

In 96 I voted Clinton, in 92 I vote 3rd party. 1988 I vote Bill the Cat after voting Bush in the primary, but felt adding moron boy (Quayle) to appease the Religious Right was too much. Still couldn't vote for that pathetic Dem nominee though.

In 1984 I campaign for Reagan as a Young Republican.

Last time New Jersey voted Republican for President was 1988. Dukakis really was an embarrassment of a candidate.


Oh, I campaigned for Obama both elections.

[Jaglavak]

Wow! You remember the '80's?