Vegas Mafia Day Three

[Eristic Widgeon]

Although the crowd on the casino floor was starting to thin out a bit, the action kept up hot and heavy all night and the free watered-down drinks kept flowing for those players who still remained. A good time was had by all, but unfortunately it ended in tragedy when Archangel was found crushed under a late-period Elvis impersonator.

She was:

Welcome to the game, you are Vanilla Town. You have no special powers except for your voice and your vote. You win when all anti-Town forces have been eliminated.

It will be a long Day because of the US holiday weekend, ending at 2 pm Chicago time on (edited) Wednesday July 6.

[guiri]

Farewell Archangel!

[Archangel]

Go town!

[guiri]

[b]Vote Mordenkainen[/vote]

You’ve got some explaining to do.

[guiri]

Day 2 Final Vote Count
Kaiveran (6): guiri (4), Meeko (23), Bashorian Clement (93), TexCat (158), Archangel (182), Mordenkainen (184)[204](204)
Bashorian Clement (2): Mahaloth (165), Silverjan (194)
Texcat (1): Mahaloth (58)[122], Mahaloth (122)[165], LightFoot (124), Archangel (161)[170]
Meeko (1): Kaiveran (156)
Guiri (0): Kaiveran (36)[140]
Mahaloth (0): Archangel (145)[161], TexCat (158)[158], Archangel (170)[182]

Not voting (1): Colby11

Day 1 Final Vote Count
Texcat (4): guiri (113)[239], Mahaloth (118), Mordenkainen (189), Vanta Black (227), gnarlycharlie (240)
Gnarlycharlie (4): Silverjan (136), Archangel (209), TexCat (237), guiri (239)
Vanta Black (2): Colby11 (72), LightFoot (114), Archangel (148)[190]
Archangel (1): guiri (23)[40], Meeko (100), Vanta Black (108)[187]
Guiri (1): gnarlycharlie (13)[240], Precambrianmollusc (151)
Precambrianmollusc (0): Archangel (89)[148]
Mahaloth (0): Colby11 (28)[28], TexCat (35)[237], Meeko (45)[75]
Meeko (0): Vanta Black (37)[108]

Not voting (2): Kaiveran, Bashorian Clement

[guiri]

I think toDay might be quite quiet. If you’re Town, I encourage you to help us find each other.

[Meeko]

[Mahaloth]

I'm traveling to California right now. Bit busy, will be able to play on vacation. Just busy now.

[Mordenkainen]

It's almost 2am. I don't feel like heavy thinking right now.

@guiri - How did I find out about my misspelling of Kaiveran's name? I ran the vote script to check the count and my vote did not appear against Kaiveran. It appeared against Kaiveren.

So I checked the player's name and corrected my error.

[Colby11]

Apologies for not voting yesterDay. Honestly I wasn’t feeling any of the cases, and didn’t have time to question the case made…

Right now, still not liking the whole Mahaloth pulling a Pleo and claiming VT… but with the flip of a role cop, think scum might have checked on him?

[Silverjan]

Originally Posted by Colby11

Apologies for not voting yesterDay. Honestly I wasn’t feeling any of the cases, and didn’t have time to question the case made…

Right now, still not liking the whole Mahaloth pulling a Pleo and claiming VT… but with the flip of a role cop, think scum might have checked on him?

Have I missed something, when was a role cop flipped? I thought it was an alignment cop.

[guiri]

Originally Posted by Mordenkainen

It's almost 2am. I don't feel like heavy thinking right now.

@guiri - How did I find out about my misspelling of Kaiveran's name? I ran the vote script to check the count and my vote did not appear against Kaiveran. It appeared against Kaiveren.

So I checked the player's name and corrected my error.

That was the easy question.

Originally Posted by guiri

6. Mordenkainen

What about the delay between the crumb and the vote? And your stance on TexCat?

Originally Posted by Colby11

Apologies for not voting yesterDay. Honestly I wasn’t feeling any of the cases, and didn’t have time to question the case made…

This was your post #189:

Originally Posted by Colby11

Rereading the role, if Vanta hid behind Kai and Kai was scum, yes she would die. Guess I missed this breadcrumb?

You were aware of the case on Kaiveran, you were aware that Vanta hiding behind him and turning up dead made him scum, you were aware that there was a breadcrumb you missed, what part of the case did you not feel?

Originally Posted by Silverjan

Have I missed something, when was a role cop flipped? I thought it was an alignment cop.

Kaiveran was the scum role cop.

But still, a strange question from Colby, seems to imply that Mahaloth is not scum, otherwise scum would have no need to use the role cop power on him, and if he’s not scum, most likely they’d deduce he’s telling the truth, right? The town cop was yeeted D1, so even if Mahaloth was bluffing to WIFOM scum, investigating him would not be a massive priority? Am I missing something?

[guiri]

My vote did not work, trying again:



@Colby11, are you third party?

[guiri]

Happy 4th of July weekend!

[Colby11]

Originally Posted by guiri

That was the easy question.What about the delay between the crumb and the vote? And your stance on TexCat?
This was your post #189:You were aware of the case on Kaiveran, you were aware that Vanta hiding behind him and turning up dead made him scum, you were aware that there was a breadcrumb you missed, what part of the case did you not feel?

But still, a strange question from Colby, seems to imply that Mahaloth is not scum, otherwise scum would have no need to use the role cop power on him, and if he’s not scum, most likely they’d deduce he’s telling the truth, right? The town cop was yeeted D1, so even if Mahaloth was bluffing to WIFOM scum, investigating him would not be a massive priority? Am I missing something?

To answer your 2 questions fully

1. I was not sure about the case because there was other options that could have been valid to me as well (Vanta hiding with PCM). I also didn’t have the time to even formulate a case due to RL (but that’s not something that I should keep going to…)

2. I’m wondering out loud who scum would have targeted N1 with their role search. It’s entirely possible that they didn’t believe Mahaloth’s claim. I say that because not as many people were as suspicious of Mahaloth D2 compared to D1, IMO. So, I’m trying to draw a correlation between the two.

[Colby11]

Originally Posted by guiri

My vote did not work, trying again:



@Colby11, are you third party?

Nope. I’m town.

[guiri]

Originally Posted by Colby11

2. I’m wondering out loud who scum would have targeted N1 with their role search. It’s entirely possible that they didn’t believe Mahaloth’s claim. I say that because not as many people were as suspicious of Mahaloth D2 compared to D1, IMO. So, I’m trying to draw a correlation between the two.

OK, it’s a theory, let’s see. You were first, with your vote and unvote in the same post.

Originally Posted by Colby11 That’s what a scum would say… Or maybe he’s telling the truth? Someone pour me something stronger!!

Next up was TexCat who sheeped your vote:

Originally Posted by TexCat I'm inclined to agree with this.

Then Kaiveran called it wolfy:

Originally Posted by Kaiveran Now in isolation, I would not read much into this first post of Mahaloth's (as some others seem to be doing.) I know/knew a lot of people and communities who just always claimed VT in their OP, even though it's pointless and arguably suboptimal. That's just some people's style. However, it's the next post in conjunction with it that gives me pause. I'm not experienced with this forum in particular, but normally, wouldn't the host have made clear if such a consequential mechanic exists in the rules thread? If you're happy to be a VT in the dark, why would you be concerned about gaining advantages through minigames? I might just be separating my own peculiar molehill from the pack and calling it Mount Everest, but still, this combo reads a tad bit wolfy.

I called it weird

Originally Posted by guiri Mahaloth’s question to the village about the possibility of gambling kinda fits into that weird column. If he’s aware of any hidden game or mechanism within the game, it’s out in the open now, he’s clearly not VT and he could be fishing, and if he’s not aware but really wanted to know the answer, he could have asked the moderator. Otherwise it’s just a little weird. While other players have a habit or policy of claiming in their first post, I don’t believe Mahaloth does, and I also don’t recall if he follows the town never lies policy, so claiming VT truthfully reduces the pool for any power roles to hide in and adds little info for the rest of Town - except maybe a tracker, why bother?

Meeko then voted Mahaloth:

Originally Posted by Meeko And my entire thing was, I wanted to point this out to Maha, and also point out that game was closed set-up .... but then I got lost in the nuance of Closed V Open, and shelved it, indefinitely. As much as I want poker, or other "" casino "" in this game, I think we long passed by when that had to be introduced, to be viable. I thought this long before the Mod interjected that there is no "Casino" in the game. Which I guess was the last gasp of hope for a "Game Night" during the Night phases. But yeah, I didn't want to bring this up, because I was paranoid that it would put focus on me over things and aspects of this game that I know nothing about, .... not unlike the near trap I set, baited, and then fell victim for myself, in Margaritaville. I think Mahaloth is slowly but surely evolving to a "I claim in my first post" position here [And to be clear, has been doing so, in recent games]. FWIW, I think Pleonast is, at the same time, and for a profound want of words, is devolving / conceding that position to Maha. We are going to get rid of someone doing it, but, at least we make the deck chairs look nice. I guess that does kinda move me in a certain way, overall.

Vanta is on the fence regarding TexCat’s vote, can see the reasoning:

Originally Posted by Vanta Black A bit bothered by TexCat's quick pickup of the Mahaloth vote, but at the same time I can see reasons for the Mahaloth vote. So I'm going around in a circle here with this one.

Lightfoot followed up with a couple of questions in #67 to me and #69 to Maha but did not express her own opinion, just a thank you in #74 for his #71.
Meeko unvoted in #75, reevaluating.
SilverJan questions TexCat’s vote in #85.
Precambrianmollusc does not see what’s scummy about Mahaloth:

Originally Posted by Precambrianmollusc I am here, I am not being a ghost and I will read through and catch up this evening . I have followed through the first page, not sure why Maha was getting voted for

and follows up in #151.
Archangel lists Mahaloth as probably Town in #128.
Mordenkainen calls it sub-optimal but not enough for a vote:

Originally Posted by Mordenkainen This is suboptimal play for Town. If Maha is Town, he's reduced the pool of Townies the Mafia have to shoot in to find any power roles. If he's not Town, he will have non-Town motivations. Not enough to vote Maha just on its own. More as I go.

although he follows this up with a vote on TexCat:

Originally Posted by Mordenkainen .The post that stands out is post 35. In this she voted for mahaloth on the grounds that she agreed with Colby that claiming VT is something that a Mafiate would do. I have two problems with this. One, Colby's vote appears to me to be a humourous jab, because it was immediately followed with an unvote in the same post. Two, it's not true that only Mafiates would claim VT. Any VT could, and there are players who would claim VT when they aren't. So the vote is a bad one. Then we have post 150. In this Texcat repeats the claim that Mafiate would claim VT and that this justifies the vote. Tex also found the question in Maha's following post to be "disingenuous" and two other posts to be defensive. I didn't agree with the latter[ I get a more despondent "what have I done" vibe from those posts. I can see where she is coming from re the gambling question; a Mafiate might well want a distraction. On the other hand there have been no indications about a gambling theme prior to this so it could easily be VT curiosity. Overall I disagree with the vote. The question is, are Tex's arguments made up to justify her vote, or honest misunderstandings? At this point I can't get past the stated reason - that claiming VT is something Mafiates would do, with the implication that only Mafiates would do so. That is just wrong.

I can a little inconsistency in Mordenkainen’s stance on the claim, possibly confbias, but if he saw the unforced claim and suboptimal but not enough for a vote, but found TexCat’s combo reasoning of the vote and post not valid, something gives.
TexCat moved to gnarly in self-defense but still finds Mahaloth and BC scummiest.

So, in summary, by the end of D1:
TexCat is suspicious but unvoted by EoD
Meeko found it suspicious but reevaluated and unvoted shortly after
Kaiveran found it a tad wolfy but never voted
You were on the fence
Vanta was on the fence
Mordenkainen found it sub-optimal but not worth a vote
I found it weird but NAI
Lightfoot had no opinion
Precambianmollusc did not find it scummy
Archangel found Mahaloth probably Town

I did not find a stance from Gnarly, SilverJan, or Bashorian.

Now looking at D2, did anyone change their stance?
TexCat reiterated her scum lean on Maha in #8, re-voted in #158, but moved to Kai in self-defence.
Archangel reiterated that the claim was NAI for Maha in #17, but agreed with Meeko’s #34 that spreadsheet promisers are often scum. She later said she doesn’t trust Mahaloth here and would vote but does not want a vanity wagon in #144, and votes anyway in #145 before moving to TexCat in #161, and back in #170, and to Kaiveran in #182, once the penny dropped
Meeko is pinged by Maha’s request for a claims update in #34
You reiterate that your only reads D1 were Vanta and BC
Kaiveran agreed with my take on Mahaloth’s re-vote of TexCat, the bar must rise

So, as far as I can see, the only change in stance towards Mahaloth was Archangel’s, and since was Town, unrelated to the role cop. Your statement that not as many people were suspicious of Mahaloth D2 compared to D1 seems inaccurate. Goose officially chased.

[guiri]

Bashorian was the counter-wagon to Kaiveran, several players telegraphed a vote but only two follow-up.
D1

Originally Posted by Mordenkainen

Bashorian.

He had a short burst of activity, in which he probed but hasn't come back to respond to the answers. One was querying about an oog comment from me, since explained.

I have a slightly uneasy feel about BC, but I can't find a reason other than low participation; but not only is low participation a null tell, but it would be inconsistent of me to vote anyone on those grounds in the early game since I refused to in other games. Also some people line up to accuse me on the grounds of low participation; usually wrongly. (My early game is about the same whatever my alignment.)

D2

Originally Posted by Colby11

Right now I need to reevaluate, as my main scum suspect is dead, and I had no other leads besides maybe BC, but that’s mainly based on my playstyle… going to go back and reread EOD1.

What was your read on BC?

Originally Posted by Mahaloth

I think Bashorian is odd for just jumping on the Kaiveran train there.

[QUOTE=Mahaloth;1764403][/QUOTE @Mahaloth, what was odd about it?
[QUOTE=LightFoot;1764295]I would vote Bashorian as well at this point.[/QUOTE @LightFoot, why, at this point?

Originally Posted by Silverjan

Sorry about toDay, I will get onto things aagain. At the moment I think BC could be either scum or 3P just because he can't see other reasons why there is a good possibility that there is a 3P.



I'm going with my gut again

It's not even a possibility, it's a probability.

At least there’s a reason here.

[Colby11]

My read on BC is that our play styles normally counter each other, and that we normally find each other scummy… but this game, I have found less of that. Maybe it’s due to me actually playing a few games and understanding their play style….

[Meeko]

Finally have a curated esoteric video I can share for this game.

[Yes, I curate them, and, if you guys liked Magic The Gathering, or four letter words, it would be a lot easier....]

[Colby11]

Don’t know if we can or not, but I think we’re gonna need an extra day to discuss, especially with everyone gone this weekend….

[Colby11]

Player list

Living (Order is from the signup thread)

LightFoot
Mahaloth
Silverjan
Guiri
Mordenkainen
Colby11
Meeko
TexCat
Bashorian Clement

Dead
N1- Gnarlycharlie- town semi-paranoid cop
D2- PCM- vanilla town
D2- Vanta Black- town hider
N2- Kai- scum role cop
D3- Archangel- vanilla town

[guiri]

I can support that, give people a breather for the long weekend.

[Mahaloth]

Originally Posted by Colby11

Don’t know if we can or not, but I think we’re gonna need an extra day to discuss, especially with everyone gone this weekend….

I also will need more time. Family and I are heading to Disneyland in the next couple days and time will be limited.

[Bashorian Clement]

Yeah that's fine.

[Bashorian Clement]

One night kill again.

[guiri]

Yes, maybe the idea of an anti-town third party is losing some support, or the game-state is such that a third-party has no reason to make themselves known, or simply does not have a killing power and instead recruits, tags or otherwise steals the win without causing bloodshed. Without a cop, or apparently any other investigative power, I guess we’ll just see what’s up as we yeet and scum NK.

[Eristic Widgeon]

OK, by popular demand we’ll move EoD to 2 pm Chicago time Wednesday.

[TexCat]

So I have a firm non-scum column with Guiri and Meeko. And Bashorian Clement is pretty close to being in that column as well.

Both Lightfoot and Mahaloth tried to question BC on his vote for Kai, and threatened to start a wagon on him for his vote. Mahaloth later claimed that he intended to vote for BC instead of re-voting me. But it looks like a concerted effort to discourage Kai votes.

Originally Posted by Mahaloth AA seems normal to me. I have not noticed Silverjan enough to comment. Huh, I guess. Worth noting. I think Bashorian is odd for just jumping on the Kaiveran train there. Originally Posted by LightFoot I didn't read Vanta as Town reading Kai I would vote Bashorian as well at this point.

[guiri]

I think I can see a Kaiveran, Mordenkainen, Mahaloth scum team, at least it fits better than Kaiveran, Mordenkainen, Texcat, although that would mean every EoD D1 wagon was on a townie.

[guiri]

@TexCat, what do you make of Mordenkainen? I know you’ve been on Mahaloth for three Days now but do you see those three as a possible scum team?

[Colby11]

Just from how this game is going- I think we can agree that Guiri seems to be the most townie of the bunch. Meeko is a close second for me, so I’m ruling them out of the scum pile for now, which leaves the following

LightFoot
Mahaloth
Silverjan
Mordenkainen
TexCat
Bashorian Clement

[Colby11]

EOD Day 1- The wagon on Gnarly really took place over the last 3 hours of D1. Most of the people that were on that wagon have already flipped town except for SilverJan (who voted GC early in the day), Guiri, and Texcat. Guiri was around all day, and his comments read as someone who is unsure what to do. Texcat, on the other hand, comes in with 15 minutes left to go and pushes GC into a tie with her for the lynch.

Here is the vote count

Originally Posted by guiri

I get this:

The wagon on Texcat was formed quite a while during the actual Day, so it feels like someone was panicking over Texcat’s lynch.

Gonna analysis EOD D2 here shortly.

[TexCat]

Originally Posted by guiri

@TexCat, what do you make of Mordenkainen? I know you’ve been on Mahaloth for three Days now but do you see those three as a possible scum team?

I would lean non-scum on Morden, just because of his vote on Kai. Although Morden probably wouldn't hesitate to bus, so I won't rule him out. I'm going with the Kai, Lightfoot, Mahaloth team. Lightfoot and Mahaloth both seemed to actively fight against the Kai vote.

Originally Posted by Colby11

EOD Day 1- The wagon on Gnarly really took place over the last 3 hours of D1. Most of the people that were on that wagon have already flipped town except for SilverJan (who voted GC early in the day), Guiri, and Texcat. Guiri was around all day, and his comments read as someone who is unsure what to do. Texcat, on the other hand, comes in with 15 minutes left to go and pushes GC into a tie with her for the lynch.

Here is the vote count

The wagon on Texcat was formed quite a while during the actual Day, so it feels like someone was panicking over Texcat’s lynch.

Gonna analysis EOD D2 here shortly.

I wouldn't characterize it as panicking over my mizzle, but I would definitely say I was unhappy about it and there wasn't a lot of time left. But you can't really think that Guiri is scum, can you? He was the instrumental vote saving me.

[LightFoot]

My MIAness was not planned
To clarify when some are saying I was questioning BC because of their vote I don't recall that.
when I said I could vote BC it was for some reasoning I do not recall .Not voting D1 may have been part of it.

[LightFoot]

Analysis from me is required I understand that.
I won't bore you with my IRL business but that is what it is.
My possible Scum list is [in no particular order]


Mahaloth
Silverjan
Mordenkainen
Colby11
TexCat
Bashorian Clement

Too many for certain

[LightFoot]

Day 1 Final Vote Count
Texcat (4): guiri (113)[239], Mahaloth (118), Mordenkainen (189), Vanta Black (227), gnarlycharlie (240)
Gnarlycharlie (4): Silverjan (136), Archangel (209), TexCat (237), guiri (239)
Vanta Black (2): Colby11 (72), LightFoot (114), Archangel (148)[190]
Archangel (1): guiri (23)[40], Meeko (100), Vanta Black (108)[187]
Guiri (1): gnarlycharlie (13)[240], Precambrianmollusc (151)
Precambrianmollusc (0): Archangel (89)[148]
Mahaloth (0): Colby11 (28)[28], TexCat (35)[237], Meeko (45)[75]
Meeko (0): Vanta Black (37)[108]

Not voting (2): Kaiveran, Bashorian Clement

thanks guiri for the colourized VC

I am having a tussle with thinking that not one scum was voted Day 1
We are generally better than that-generally

Hence my putting TexCat in my sus list and BC as well on to 2

[LightFoot]

Day 2 Final Vote Count
Kaiveran (6): guiri (4), Meeko (23), Bashorian Clement (93), TexCat (158), Archangel (182), Mordenkainen (184)[204](204)
Bashorian Clement (2): Mahaloth (165), Silverjan (194)
Texcat (1): Mahaloth (58)[122], Mahaloth (122)[165], LightFoot (124), Archangel (161)[170]
Meeko (1): Kaiveran (156)
Guiri (0): Kaiveran (36)[140]
Mahaloth (0): Archangel (145)[161], TexCat (158)[158], Archangel (170)[182]

Not voting (1): Colby11

Here guiri/ Mahaloth and to a smaller extent BC look non Scum
Tex and Mordenkainen not as much
Colby who seemed to grasp the crumb didn't vote?
I need to revisit Maha's comments on the subject.

Myself was in left field on the crumb

[Colby11]

Didn’t grasp the crumb at all, to be honest. Hence why I didn’t vote

[Colby11]

Texcat- the only thing that is preventing me from throwing Guiri into any sort of scum pool over EOD D1 is the fact that they were active in the last 4 hours. Seemed like they were doing scum hunting to me…

[Colby11]

I think right now is probably the last that I’m going to be on til after EOD… so if I had to make a pick about who is scum, I would shoot into this pool

SilverJan- avoiding the Kai case
Texcat- EOD D1
Mahaloth- his claim plus his votes D2
Mordankainen- D2 votes

But any case I can come with does have some question marks… right now I think the best vote is to

[guiri]

Originally Posted by TexCat

I would lean non-scum on Morden, just because of his vote on Kai. Although Morden probably wouldn't hesitate to bus, so I won't rule him out.

Quite wishy-washy on Mordenkainen there, since you seem to have ruled him out from your PoE.

Originally Posted by TexCat

I'm going with the Kai, Lightfoot, Mahaloth team. Lightfoot and Mahaloth both seemed to actively fight against the Kai vote.

If Lightfoot was scum with Kai, knew scum killed PCM, saw Vanta's breadcrumb and the case against Kai, do you really think she would fight it so hard, pushing the hiding-behind-PCM alternative, discrediting Kai's accusers, knowing that he would flip scum and that the crumb was real? I don't see it. A small push against the case maybe, some distancing from Kai maybe, but this? Read Mordenkainen's analysis of the Kai case for comparison, he seems to take it as proven that Vanta hid behind Kai.

Anyway, putting my vote back where it belongs:

[guiri]

Originally Posted by LightFoot

My MIAness was not planned
To clarify when some are saying I was questioning BC because of their vote I don't recall that.
when I said I could vote BC it was for some reasoning I do not recall .Not voting D1 may have been part of it.

Was it his role-fishing?

Originally Posted by LightFoot

BOLDING MINE
I didn't check the time line but you now know ( per the Mod) how Vanta's power worked right?

Yes if there was an additional killing power they could have held off or been thwarted ( blocked in some manner)
to my underlined bit
that is hard to address without a power role outing their existence so what are you wanting to see?

[guiri]

Originally Posted by Mahaloth

I'm traveling to California right now. Bit busy, will be able to play on vacation. Just busy now.

Bolding added.

Originally Posted by Mahaloth

I also will need more time. Family and I are heading to Disneyland in the next couple days and time will be limited.

So were you able to play while on vacation or not?

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by guiri

Was it his role-fishing?

That was part o the dance as well. I don't recall a response either.

[Bashorian Clement]

Originally Posted by guiri

Quite wishy-washy on Mordenkainen there, since you seem to have ruled him out from your PoE.

If Lightfoot was scum with Kai, knew scum killed PCM, saw Vanta's breadcrumb and the case against Kai, do you really think she would fight it so hard, pushing the hiding-behind-PCM alternative, discrediting Kai's accusers, knowing that he would flip scum and that the crumb was real? I don't see it. A small push against the case maybe, some distancing from Kai maybe, but this? Read Mordenkainen's analysis of the Kai case for comparison, he seems to take it as proven that Vanta hid behind Kai.

Anyway, putting my vote back where it belongs:

I think it's reasonable to believe that Vanta hid behind Kaiveran:

Originally Posted by Eristic Widgeon

Yes. If they were both town they would both have died if Kaiveran had been targeted by any killing power of any alignment (unless he was also targeted by a protective power, in which case both would live). The only scenario in which Kaiveran would survive while Vanta died is if he had some passive protective power like a bulletproof vest. That protection wouldn’t extend to Vanta, but any active protection power, including a self-protection, would have.

Does that change anything with regard to Mordenkainen for you?

[Bashorian Clement]

I'll go along with this

[Bashorian Clement]

Actually looking at the vote count I want to do this.





I could see either one.

[LightFoot]

a landslide gives us no information



to see

It is possible I won't be able to return before EOD but I will try to

[guiri]

Originally Posted by Bashorian Clement

Does that change anything with regard to Mordenkainen for you?

Not sure what you’re getting at, I have no doubt Vanta hid behind Kai.
I’m questioning TexCat’s case on Lightfoot. I find it hard to believe that a scum team member, who knew PCM was the scum kill, would push so hard against the Vanta-hiding-behind-Kai scenario, discard the breadcrumb, discredit one or two of Kai’s voters, and fight against Kai’s yeet, knowing he would flip scum and the breadcrumb might be true. Maybe she was convinced Vanta hid behind PCM, since she knew PCM was the scum target and a likelier candidate for Vanta to hide behind, but to double down by discarding the breadcrumb entirely and then to attack TexCat for following Meeko, Bashorian and myself with her vote on Kai seems a step too far to protect a scum buddy.

Now that I wrote that out, there actually is a world where we just got lucky, and Vanta never actually hid behind Kai but there was enough suspicion on him that the breadcrumb just solidified the case, but even scum Lightfoot wouldn’t have known that.