Thanks for the thread close Haj

[thylacine]

I understand I likely read as angry and upset, not really either actually but it is the socking up to do it that is the only uncomfortable bit.

Sometimes I forget I’m amongst a different cultural group on a number of levels, I apologise for any discomfort my responses caused. My experiences are much more usual in my world.

I just remind myself my gay dad was born in a time when the punishment for sodomy was death and now I could marry my partner (if we could work out who should propose). In between there were lots of awful things and trans folks are stuck in the awful as others in the alphabet move on.

The TERFs will lose as other bigots have but I’m damned if I’m not going to try to speed the process.

[TERRRRFIN_BIIIRRRD]

I’ve messaged hajaro to see if I can reopen the thread either in the Pit or the Box. Needless to say, I think the closure was bullshit.

You read as angry and upset because you quite obviously were. Denying it just makes everything else you said appear less believable. Moreover, you fail to appreciate that I also have reasons to be upset by this issue, but I just had the good grace to hide it for the sake of making the thread productive. We are literally having to take male rapists out of women’s prisons because of you fucking people! You think that’s not upsetting?

I’m sure it’s comforting to dismiss TERFs as bigots because then you don’t need to think about the moral implications of your own position, but the truth is that there are very good reasons for segregating certain spaces by sex. If you can’t handle reading about them then you should’ve just stayed out of the thread.

[Dragonlady]

I can't speak for every prison everywhere, but around here, genetically male prisoners go to male prisons, even if they are on hormone treatment. I admit I am not sure about after surgery, though.

[TERRRRFIN_BIIIRRRD]

Originally Posted by Dragonlady

I can't speak for every prison everywhere, but around here, genetically male prisoners go to male prisons, even if they are on hormone treatment. I admit I am not sure about after surgery, though.

Yeah, well where I am they’re handing out condoms in women’s prisons to try and keep the number of unwanted pregnancies down.

[thylacine]

N/m, wrong place. Sorry I took the bait

[thylacine]

Originally Posted by TERRRRFIN_BIIIRRRD

We are literally having to take male rapists out of women’s prisons because of you fucking people!

Does this get it boxed or banned?

[TERRRRFIN_BIIIRRRD]

Where’s the lie?

Are transwomen rapists being sent to women’s prisons? Yes.
Does the bullshit you people think you’re so righteous for advocating make it easier to put transwomen rapists in women’s prisons? Also yes.

We literally are having to drag male rapists out of women’s prisons because of you people.

[Pencil]

I really shouldn't make fun of this; and in no way am I trying to make light of your experiences @thylacine. But I can't help myself.

The sheer absurdity that men will pose as women, commit serious crimes, in order to be put in women's prisons and go on a raping spree is so far out there as a conspiracy theory that flat earthers seem sane and logical. And to claim that damage control is achieved by distributing condoms to women, so they can protect themselves from unwanted pregnancies? Getting pregnant from rape? In prison? By a cross dressing man?

I feel sorry for humanity.

Box the sock ASAP.

[JackieLikesVariety]

Originally Posted by thylacine

Sometimes I forget I’m amongst a different cultural group on a number of levels, I apologise for any discomfort my responses caused. My experiences are much more usual in my world.

I don't see that you have any need to apologize. Your posts in the closed thread were informative, well written and passionate. good for you.

the TERF SOCK would do well to read them and learn something.

and "you people" tells us everything we need to know.

[JackieLikesVariety]

Originally Posted by thylacine

Does this get it boxed or banned?

block the sock and assume they don't exist anymore. you don't need this.

[thylacine]

Nobody needs this my friend, not a soul on earth.

[TERRRRFIN_BIIIRRRD]

Originally Posted by Pencil

I really shouldn't make fun of this; and in no way am I trying to make light of your experiences @thylacine. But I can't help myself.

The sheer absurdity that men will pose as women, commit serious crimes, in order to be put in women's prisons and go on a raping spree is so far out there as a conspiracy theory that flat earthers seem sane and logical. And to claim that damage control is achieved by distributing condoms to women, so they can protect themselves from unwanted pregnancies? Getting pregnant from rape? In prison? By a cross dressing man?

I feel sorry for humanity.

Box the sock ASAP.

You’re clearly quite stupid so I’m going to make this simple:

• Some men transition, commit rape, and are sent to women’s prisons where they continue to abuse.

• Some men commit rape, then transition, and are sent to women’s prisons where they continue to abuse.

• Some men commit rape, then lie about being women so they can serve their sentence in a women’s prison where they can continue to abuse.

• Some men who have committed other crimes lie about being women so they can serve their sentence in the relative safety of a women’s prison, only to ‘detransition’ when they’re released.

Men are in women’s prisons now. Today. Hence the condoms. While some of the sex is consensual, some of it isn’t. One of the reasons why prison services provide condoms is to increase the likelihood that if a woman is raped by a trans inmate in a state which prohibits abortion, she won’t get pregnant and have to carry the rapist’s baby to term.

But please, keep telling each other how “kind”you all are 🙄

[Sputnik]

Dude, I can smell what you’re shoveling from here.

[hajario]

Banned.

[JackieLikesVariety]

Originally Posted by hajario

Banned.

thank you!

[Sputnik]

I guess Turd Bird got his answer on reopening his thread.

[thylacine]

Turns out it wasn’t just here yesterday

https://www.news.com.au/national/vic...2805f78c77a49b

Fucking nazi salutes on my Parliament House steps in support of a TERF. Fine company for our pair of socks


Sorry, I had to put it somewhere, did not know where.

[Detroit Hoser]

You held your tongue better than I would have. I got one post in that thread, asking for a definition of "many people think," a lazy crutch used by people who lie a lot. Like Donald Trump. My next post would have been "go fuck yourself" only because I was feeling eloquent at the time. Instead of I got distracted away from the Internet by my drums, which makes me feel like I won somehow.

[thylacine]

Ding ding ding, we have a winner! No question

[JackieLikesVariety]

Originally Posted by thylacine

Turns out it wasn’t just here yesterday

https://www.news.com.au/national/vic...2805f78c77a49b

Fucking nazi salutes on my Parliament House steps in support of a TERF. Fine company for our pair of socks


Sorry, I had to put it somewhere, did not know where.

fucking nazis!

[SmartAleq]

The whole TERF thing is just ugly and nasty--I can't for the life of me figure out why the fuck they even CARE? I don't know what's down in anyone's pants and I'd like to keep it that way but they've got their long snurfy terfy noses all up in every bit of bidness like they get paid for that. It's really baffling to me.

[C2H5OH]

Originally Posted by thylacine

Turns out it wasn’t just here yesterday

https://www.news.com.au/national/vic...2805f78c77a49b

Fucking nazi salutes on my Parliament House steps in support of a TERF. Fine company for our pair of socks


Sorry, I had to put it somewhere, did not know where.

How much do you want to bet that most of those guys in that picture have a roll of coins, instead of actual dick, in there...

[George Kaplin]

Just out of curiosity, is there any kind of official policy about discussing trans issues here? Like, is there a line? If so, where is it?

[hajario]

Originally Posted by George Kaplin

Just out of curiosity, is there any kind of official policy about discussing trans issues here? Like, is there a line? If so, where is it?

There is no official policy here about anything. Just don’t be an asshole. There is no way that I’m defining a line.

[George Kaplin]

Originally Posted by hajario

There is no official policy here about anything. Just don’t be an asshole. There is no way that I’m defining a line.

Yeah, but I’ve read the closed thread and it seems to me like the OP went out of their way to not be an asshole. They ignored insults, asked people to stay on topic, and tried to answer people’s questions politely. For all the good it did they might as well have socked up as Rapey_McHitler and spammed the board with Mohammed cartoons and hardcore porn. Meanwhile, nearly everyone else in the thread went out of their way to be as much of an asshole as possible and nobody said shit.

It seems like, in this context, “don’t be an asshole” is just shorthand for “Don’t argue this position, which we think is inherently and irredeemably evil, because we’ll ban you if you do”. Which is fine, I guess. Your board, your rules. But if that’s the case then you should say so.

On the other hand, if TERFs are allowed to make their arguments we need to know where the OP crossed the line.

[Pencil]

Oh, fuck off.

[George Kaplin]

No, you fuck off, cunt.

[hajario]

TERFs are not allowed to make their arguments here at all. Hope that helps.

[George Kaplin]

Originally Posted by hajario

TERFs are not allowed to make their arguments here at all. Hope that helps.

That’s all I was asking. Thanks.

[JackieLikesVariety]

Originally Posted by hajario

TERFs are not allowed to make their arguments here at all. Hope that helps.

[thylacine]

Thanks Haj, meanwhile I am astounded that posts dehumanising a small class of already victimised people and spreading lies and conspiracy theories can be considered non arsehole.

Glad it isn’t here by those with the keys

ETA, my State Premier raised the trans flag over parliament this week.

[Rat Diva]

Wow, I'm kind of sorry I missed my chance to tell TURD BIRD a thing or two, but mostly I'm not sorry because shitheads like that aren't worth my time.

And here's a big smooshy Ratty hug for thylacine.

[Rat Diva]

Originally Posted by George Kaplin

Yeah, but I’ve read the closed thread and it seems to me like the OP went out of their way to not be an asshole. They ignored insults, asked people to stay on topic, and tried to answer people’s questions politely.

Bigots who persist in saying hateful shit don't deserve common courtesy, no matter how much disingenuity and sealioning they bring to bear polite and reasonable they're pretending to be.

[George Kaplin]

Originally Posted by Rat Diva

Bigots who persist in saying hateful shit don't deserve common courtesy, no matter how much disingenuity and sealioning they bring to bear polite and reasonable they're pretending to be.

I think this kind of attitude is a real problem. There’s no attempt at any kind of mutual understanding. If you’re a woman in prison, it’s not “bigoted” to be scared about the prospect of a masculine looking transwoman being put on your cell block. If you’ve been raped, or if you’ve been beaten by your husband, it’s not “bigoted” to want to be able to access a woman only shelter. If you’re in hospital receiving intimate care, it’s not “bigoted” to want someone of the same sex to give it to you.

And the notion that womanhood can be completely divorced from biological sex is absurd. It’s the kind of thing that only an pitiably sheltered academic could ever dream up. When a man assaults a woman, or pervs over her until her skin crawls, his reasons for doing so have nothing to do with her gender. It’s entirely to do with her biological sex, and if she tells him she identifies as a man it won’t make any difference. When a woman is passed over for a promotion because her male boss would rather hire a man because “men don’t get pregnant”, that’s his perception of her sex working against her, not her gender. Same with women discriminated against because of their periods. Transwomen, for obvious reasons, are typically bigger and stronger than women. If a transwoman and a woman both go out alone at night, they’re not going to be thinking the same things.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Now, to be clear, I’m not saying transwomen have it easier than women. I’m saying they have it different from women, and these differences are all based in biological sex and these differences matter. It’s not “bigoted” to point that out.

If you want to make a case that transwomen are women, or that allowing anybody who identifies as a woman into female single-sex spaces regardless of how they present doesn’t pose a risk to women then make it. But pretending the other side doesn’t have valid concerns or any strong arguments just makes you look stubborn and unreasoning.

[Pencil]

Again. Fuck off.
You're not here often enough to be boxed, but only show up to make snide comments and take swipes at a certain kind of posters. That your third sentence brings up the 'woman in prison' canard is evidence enough. No one, in the public discourse about social issues, who comes from the right reactionary side cares even the slightest about incarcerated people. The only reason they ever bring it up is to further another agenda.

So fuck off.

[thylacine]

That’s the funniest bit Pencil, I reckon it is guards/office workers/chaplains/teachers just pointing and saying “it wasn’t me, it was her/him”. Don’t buy it from either 5 year olds or prison authorities sorry. Sex has always been both currency and control in that environment. Lesbian rape isn’t joyful either but these clowns don’t ever think that’s possible or matters. Screwy.

Prisoners of all genders should be safe from rape, if that was the agenda I’d be right on board but it is like arresting the tooth fairy for breaking and entering to steal teeth. Pure fantasy.

[George Kaplin]

Originally Posted by Pencil

Again. Fuck off.
You're not here often enough to be boxed, but only show up to make snide comments and take swipes at a certain kind of posters. That your third sentence brings up the 'woman in prison' canard is evidence enough. No one, in the public discourse about social issues, who comes from the right reactionary side cares even the slightest about incarcerated people. The only reason they ever bring it up is to further another agenda.

So fuck off.

That’s some weird fanfic. Firstly, calling the justified fears of women in prison a “canard” indicates your views are at least partially informed by unconscious (or, maybe, entirely conscious) misogyny. There’s no group in society more vulnerable than imprisoned women. Many of them have been either sexually abused, been victims of domestic violence, or both, and the vast majority are in prison for non-violent offences. The idea that taking the fears of women in that position seriously is a “canard” is offensive as fuck. Especially since women have been raped in prison by transwomen.

Also, your America-centrism is showing. My location is, and always has been, the UK. In Britain, the vast majority of opposition to things like transwomen being imprisoned with women comes from the left. Unlike anyone in this thread, I’ve actually been to Posie Parker events. Attendees are typically gay or lesbian, middle-aged to elderly, and almost universally left wing. For every conservative I’ve met at a Posie Parker event, I’ve met twenty lifelong Green or Labour voters who’d cut their hands off before voting Tory. For every straight person there are two gays or lesbians. There are black women, Asian women, Middle-Eastern and Eastern European women. By far the smallest demographic are straight “cis” white men, and of those I’ve never met a single conservative. We do care about social issues. We particularly care about social issues that affect women. Transwomen in women’s prisons, rape crisis centres, hospital wards, etc… is an issue which affects women. The staggering rise in young women identifying as trans is a social issue, especially since the entire field of gender medicine in the UK has been wracked with scandals about lack of oversight so severe they border on criminal negligence.

So how about you fuck off?

[hajario]

Originally Posted by George Kaplin

I think this kind of attitude is a real problem. [blah blah blah].

What the fuck did I just say about TERF arguments not allowed here?

[Sunny Daze]

[Rat Diva]

There’s no attempt at any kind of mutual understanding.

I understand the TERF side of the argument just fine, thank you: they don't think transwomen are "real" women. They espouse behavior that marginalizes transwomen, calling them mentally ill, using the wrong pronouns deliberately, and contributing to their dysphoria, all in the name of "protecting womanhood" when in reality the motivation is "I don't understand it and I don't like it".

I've only got a finite amount of time and patience, I'm not going to squander it quibbling semantics with hatemongers in the name of "mutual understanding".

Therefore, I shall echo Pencil's very excellent suggestion of "fuck off", and add a hearty "you TERFhumping choad" to boot.

[Rat Diva]

Originally Posted by Pencil

Again. Fuck off.
You're not here often enough to be boxed, but only show up to make snide comments and take swipes at a certain kind of posters. That your third sentence brings up the 'woman in prison' canard is evidence enough. No one, in the public discourse about social issues, who comes from the right reactionary side cares even the slightest about incarcerated people. The only reason they ever bring it up is to further another agenda.

So fuck off.

Yes, all this "oh noes, what if there's a smidgen of a bit of a possibility of a chance that if all the planets align right a ciswoman in situation X might encounter a big scary horny transwoman just lusting after some sweet cis pussy????!?!?!?!?!?!?!? " transphobic fanfiction does get tedious. Ciswomen are still most likely to be assaulted by transmen. Prison is a strange situation different to normal society; same sex rape is about power, not sexuality.

And I'm a woman myself, so I care a whole fucking lot more about the plight of women than Trolly McTrollface does. All women.

[George Kaplin]

Originally Posted by Rat Diva

Yes, all this "oh noes, what if there's a smidgen of a bit of a possibility of a chance that if all the planets align right a ciswoman in situation X might encounter a big scary horny transwoman just lusting after some sweet cis pussy????!?!?!?!?!?!?!? " transphobic fanfiction does get tedious.

Again, this is incredibly fucking offensive and grossly misogynistic. The thing you’re making fun of has already happened!

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...sgender-prison

And here’s more:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...icts-cx9m8zqpg

This isn’t “fanfic”, and you wouldn’t say so to the women it’s happened to. Or maybe you would, I don’t know.

Ciswomen are still most likely to be assaulted by transmen.

That doesn’t sound right. Cite?

And I'm a woman myself, so I care a whole fucking lot more about the plight of women than Trolly McTrollface does. All women.

You certainly care a lot more about the plight of some women than others.

[hajario]

Banned

[Rat Diva]

Don't go away mad, Kraplin. Just go away.

[Pencil]

I love the smell of a banned troll in the morning.

And even if he weren't trolling, us insular bigots don't need his open and fair minded insights./s

[thylacine]

It was Posie Parker the nazis came out to support here and the protests far larger than her crowd (of nazis). She was run out of NZ very quickly.

there isn’t quite as much support as your choice of media tells you. Bye now.

[Wolf Larsen]

I was really confused for a minute because Parker Posey is an actress known for quirky roles in small films and had never heard she was controversial. Then I found out that Posie Parker is a completely different (and not appetizing) person.

[Solfy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

[hajario]

In case it wasn’t clear, I removed two posts from a couple of different socks.

This is the most work I’ve done around here in months. I’m exhausted.

[thylacine]

Glad you are here, really not the week for this bullshit.