Rigs Is Back With More Uninformed Laptop Questions

[eleanorigby]

YOU ARE. If you ever come to Chicago, I owe you several drinks and dinner.

Clarification: I do not have many documents on my desktop. I do create new folders and put them on the desktop and drop stuff in them. But I have also gotten lazy and just kept my 2 crucial Excel files and 2 Word docs in my dock, always.

I tend to forget what I've named things... but I always DO name them. As a librarian, I want no unnamed anythings!

I have decided to take this slow. I will check into downloading the Google drive (which sounds like the most workable solution to me, longterm) vs getting Office. Thing about having Office is I like to send actual documents when needed, not some link to a file etc. like Google prefers.

There are things I like about Google office suite, but I will always hate their email. Funny, because I have a personal Gmail (more than 1) and it never bothered me, but I am mostly a virtual librarian. I live and die by email. I have many patrons I've never met in real life. Gmail's user interface is... not good. Outlook allowed me to see more on 1 screen, and keep things open while working elsewhere much better. Gmail also has this weird thing that occasionally an email comes through that when I click on reply, it displays weird and when I type, it just keep going to the right, way past the margins should. I can't figure out a pattern to it, but it's annoying.

Also, I used to be able (in Outlook) to create a rule wherein my list-serv emails would go automatically into a list-serv folder so I could peruse them at my leisure. Gmail's "equivalent" is a Label. This fills my inbox with multi-colored confetti, as each one is "labeled" in a different color, but that only adds to the visual clutter. I want them out of sight until I want them. Google wants me to see them all the time. I can't work like that. Way too distracting. So, I ended up going only to Digest mode for my list-servs, and now I no longer "talk" to distant colleagues. I don't have time to go to the list-serv website, login, check to see who has posted what and then reply, whereas with Outlook, I could jut pop into that folder, reply real quick to Fred or Ginger or whoever and go on with my day. Boo.

I do like sharing files with coworkers in Google; it's fast and easy and saves so much time if we're working on a shared Google Doc document in terms of editing etc. That's superior to Word's tedious Edit mode, IMO.

I'm curious: why is saving stuff to the desktop on a Mac so injurious to memory? I do want to know. Don't worry about the tech stuff. I'll cope.

Another good thing: I fully charged this M2 the night I got it (IOW, I left it charging all night), but then I disconnected it. I haven't had to charge it since. My old MB's battery is only good for about 2.5 hours now. Poor baby.

What do you think I should do in terms of charging the M2? Back in 2008 with my first MacBook, I was told I HAD to run the battery down to zero and only then recharge it. That became untenable with my life. This 2012 old MB I did the opposite, due to ignorance, and pretty much left it charging all the time, which was probably not good for it. I want to do right by the M2. Suggestions? TIA.

[JackieLikesVariety]

Originally Posted by hajario

You’re awesome @Pencil

+1

[Pencil]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

... Thing about having Office is I like to send actual documents when needed, not some link to a file etc. like Google prefers.
...
Gmail's "equivalent" is a Label. This fills my inbox with multi-colored confetti, as each one is "labeled" in a different color, but that only adds to the visual clutter.
...
I do like sharing files with coworkers in Google; it's fast and easy and saves so much time if we're working on a shared Google Doc document in terms of editing etc. That's superior to Word's tedious Edit mode, IMO.
...
I'm curious: why is saving stuff to the desktop on a Mac so injurious to memory? I do want to know. Don't worry about the tech stuff. I'll cope.
....

What do you think I should do in terms of charging the M2? Back in 2008 with my first MacBook, I was told I HAD to run the battery down to zero and only then recharge it.

I haven't been back to Chicago since 1993. Maybe it's time. Me being a former alcoholic, you'll be getting off cheap

As for your questions, and somewhat out of order, since i will save the desktop one for last There's a small OT rant too.


• Google let's you download files and choose format. So you can download and save anything as a Word .docx or pdf.


• I love Gmail, but I get what your gripes are. It goes back to everything being virtual and not physical.

(For anyone quibbling saying that's it's all virtual, yeah, but it's often structured as actual physical things.)

I hate Outlook, which I think uses way to much computer power, but I love Exchange, which is the server/software behind Outlook. It is much easier to administrate than Gmail, with way, way more options. I create folders in Gmail and set up rules to sort things.
I miss Outlook Express.

• Yes, shared files is [insert cool expletive kids use today].


•Battery: The debate's been ongoing on to maximise battery life, however you do not need to run down to zero.

(When my MB Pro is going below 20 % I make a mental note that it needs to be charged. What I mean is, if I'm going out and will use it for en extended time (several hours), I need to bring the charger. If I'm home, I'll finish what I'm doing and then connect it.)

I know this sounds vague, but for an easier way to look at it, treat it as you do your phone.
You should also check the status every now and then, perhaps every six months: On your Mac, choose Apple menu > System Settings, then click General in the sidebar. Go to power to check how many charge cycles you have used. Apple guarantees 1000 cycles. My mac (2014) is at 502 with battery health labeled as 'normal'

*****
Finally, resources when saving on desktop.
You might know this feature. If you highlight any item in finder or on the desktop and hit [space bar] you'll see a preview* of that thing. If you do that with a folder, a window will pop up, showing that folder. If you do it with a picture, a window will pop up with that pic. Fine and nifty I think.

Your Mac does this for documents too, and you will be able to preview* the doc, including reading it. This is the same if the document is in a folder in My Documents or on the desktop.

However, to do this, your Mac scans everything, so it can show you that preview in a blink of an eye. With documents on the desktop, which gets refreshed at a 60 Hz rate, the Mac will have to rescan everything if it's moved around. One document will not slow it down, but a whole bunch of them, add pictures and a videoclip and this will start using computer cycles.

You have a brand new M2, with a super powerful chip so you would probably not notice a difference, but as the computer ages and documents take up more space, it will affect performance.

****
Aside rant:
As computers gain power, software gets bloated. An empty Word .docx is 25K. The original Super Mario for NES (back in the 80's) was 40 K. The whole game.
I used Word 4.0 for Mac in the early 90's. It took up around 5 MB on the hard drive. I now have Word 15 for Mac. It takes up 1.5 GB, or :uses calculator: 375 times more space. There are very few added features that I use.

I couldn't find a screenshot of Word 4.0 but here is one for 5.1; check the menu bar for functions.





*Not the same as the App Preview.

[thorny locust]

Originally Posted by Pencil

ETA: @thorny locust not for Rigs.
[SPOILER]If I understand you, the question is if older hardware will stop working if you don't use cloud storage. NO!

No, that wasn't actually the question. The question (which I grant wasn't very clear) is twofold: one, if I update an old operating system to whatever the current old hardware will allow, will it force me or try to force me to use cloud storage, or alternatively permanently break something I now rely on? and, part two: if I did get a new computer, would that force me to use cloud storage?

Current system is Mac OS 10.13.4. What I use mostly, besides browsers, is Mac Mail, Textedit, Preview, Finder of course, and occasionally LibreOffice.

[Pencil]

Originally Posted by thorny locust

No, that wasn't actually the question. The question (which I grant wasn't very clear) is twofold: one, if I update an old operating system to whatever the current old hardware will allow, will it force me or try to force me to use cloud storage, or alternatively permanently break something I now rely on? and, part two: if I did get a new computer, would that force me to use cloud storage?

Current system is Mac OS 10.13.4. What I use mostly, besides browsers, is Mac Mail, Textedit, Preview, Finder of course, and occasionally LibreOffice.

Quick answer: No and No

That won't stop me from elaborating, of course. And I'm gonna do that just to show why I always apply a user perspective, not a tech perspective.

TL;DR
I have two Macs, which are coincidentally about the same age: A Mac Mini and a MacBook Pro, both from 2014. I use the Mac Mini as my media server, for home entertainment. It's hooked up to my tv.

The other is my laptop. I use it for 'work,' in the sense that when I type longer stuff, fiddle with Excel or - most importantly - use Adobe products (more anon), I sit at real table. Typing and doing more serious stuff from the couch is not a good solution.

I stopped working Dec 30 2020 for reasons* and I'm now slouching towards retirement which is going to happen Aug 1 '23. As a parting gift, or rather an item in my severance package, I got to buy the MB Pro, my work computer, for $200. This was an insanely good deal, because this machine is a beast. It's top specked and it contains MS Office and Adobe Creative Suite 6. The last one is the most important. My edition cost $2.600 and it was the last version available to buy as a standalone app.
Nowadays it's subscription only. And that subscription (I just checked) is $45.99 a month ($552/year) for an annual plan. There is simply no way I can defend such a cost for something that I really don't need, but is fun to have.

But CS 6 does not work with newer versions of Mac OS. I'm not updating, and I try my damnedest to keep this machine in as good shape as possible. After all these years, it's still faster, for almost all purposes, than anything new on the market. It's been my 'daily driver' for almost nine years, and I love it.

And to close this section off: my Mac Mini is running the latest OS, Monterey, which is 12.6 and my laptop is running Sierra, 10.12.

Circling back to your question. None of these machines have forced me into cloud storage and as far as I can tell newer machines and/or operating systems will not force you to do that.

But... Of course there's a 'but.'

From my TL;DR tale, there are other issues to consider. Will an update make older software obsolete, as it did for Rigs with MS Office and me with Adobe? What will updating that software (if it can even be done) cost? What're the downsides of not upgrading?
Here's your list of software:

Mail, Textedit, Preview, Finder
These are all native to MacOS, so they won't change anything at all.

LibreOffice
I've never used this, but assume it's something like OpenOffice. I checked their website and you can get a new and compatible version for a newer Mac OS.

IOW, if Apple says you can use a newer OS, you will be safe in upgrading. Newer uses more resources though, so it might make an older computer, while still compatible, slower. I'd hold off a while longer and wait until you have to get a new computer.

* Not important here, I've covered it extensively in other posts.

[SmartAleq]

FWIW I use Open Office and it's fine for anything I need to do--exporting to PDF is a little bit more complicated than using Word but then again, Open Office costs me nothing so the tiny bit of extra time will never add up to the pricetag MicroSlop wants for their software. I'm a huge proponent of open source software in spite of knowing enough to be able to pirate basically anything I want--I don't bother because if a paid for program exists there's probably an open source equivalent that's just as good, if perhaps a bit more bare bones than the paid version. Which is fine by my, bells and whistles mostly annoy me anyway.

[Jaglavak]

IIRC, Open Office was infiltrated by demon spawn of satan and began to use pieces of proprietary code. Libre Office forked off at that point and only uses 100% open source code. It works just fine for me.

[SmartAleq]

I did not know that, might have to switch to Libre then.

[Zeener Diode]

I wondered what became of that demon spawn I summoned several years ago.

[SmartAleq]

We told you to stop trying to write your name in the snow after a six pack but do you listen?

[Pencil]

Demons?

But severe problems for several years.

Between October 2014 and July 2015 the project had no release manager. During this period, in April 2015, a known remote code execution security vulnerability in Apache OpenOffice 4.1.1 was announced, but the project did not have the developers available to release the software fix. Instead, the Apache project published a workaround for users, leaving the vulnerability in the download.
<snip>

It was revealed in October 2016 that 4.1.2 had been distributed with a known security hole for nearly a year as the project had not had the development resources to fix it.

4.1.3 was known to have security issues since at least January 2017, but fixes to them were delayed by an absent release manager for 4.1.4. The Apache Software Foundation January 2017 Board minutes were edited after publication to remove mention of the security issue, which Jim Jagielski of the ASF board claimed would be fixed by May 2017. Fixes were finally released in October 2017. Further unfixed problems showed up in February 2019, with The Register unable to get a response from the developers, although the existing proof-of-concept exploit doesn't work with OpenOffice out-of-the-box.

Version 4.1.11 was released in October 2021 with a fix for a remote code execution security vulnerability that was publicly revealed the previous month. The project had been notified in early May 2021.[that] the security hole had been fixed in LibreOffice since 2014

Originally Posted by SmartAleq

We told you to stop trying to write your name in the snow after a six pack but do you listen?

🎵 Watch out where the huskies go
And don't you eat that yellow snow 🎶

[Jaglavak]

Close enough:

Originally Posted by Wiki

Members of the OpenOffice.org community who were not Sun Microsystems employees had wanted a more egalitarian form for the OpenOffice.org project for many years. Sun had stated in the original OpenOffice.org announcement in 2000 that the project would eventually be run by a neutral foundation...

Sun's contributions to OpenOffice.org had been declining for some time. They remained reluctant to accept contributions and contributors were upset at Sun releasing OpenOffice.org code to IBM for IBM Lotus Symphony under a proprietary contract, rather than under an open source licence...

Sun was purchased by Oracle Corporation in early 2010. OpenOffice.org community members were concerned by Oracle's behaviour towards open source software, specifically the Java lawsuit...and lack of activity on or visible commitment to OpenOffice.org...as Meeks put it in early September 2010, "The news from the Oracle OpenOffice conference was that there was no news." Discussion of a fork started soon after.

LibreOffice Online is an online office suite which includes the applications Writer, Calc and Impress and provides an upstream for projects such as commercial Collabora Online.

It is the most actively developed free and open-source office suite, with approximately 50 times the development activity of Apache OpenOffice, the other major descendant of OpenOffice.org, in 2015.

[eleanorigby]

OMG. I am going to cry, but they are tears of relief. I just got off the phone (800 number) of tech support for the maker of my external hard drive. This man was so kind over the phone. It took a bit for him to understand that I am not concerned (at the moment) with transferring the data on my EHD to my new M2.

I couldn't even get the data to go ON my EHD. Or, (to be accurate), I couldn't tell if I had successfully backed up my data when I tried last week. I couldn't tell when the back up was finished or if it was even working. I did find the guide to what the patterns of flashing lights mean, so go me.

Turns out I had not backed up squat last week. NOWHERE in that user manual or in the YT video I watched did it mention I had to OPEN TIME MACHINE* along with this EHD. I did so, discovered it will take 6 HOURS to back up my data and it gives me a progress bar and the # of GBs so far etc. Such a relief, I cannot tell you.


"This is very old software and the new Macs will not understand it"
He wanted to reformat my EHD so that it can take my data and (if necessary) upload it onto my M2, but I said no. I understand the value of that plan, but I've had all I can take for today. My old MB is busy transferring data to the EHD and will be until 10pm.

I took notes and more importantly, I understand (some of) it now. Oh, not the mountain that is reformatting, but one thing at a time. This has given me confidence to tackle the effing Microsoft chicanery tomorrow as well. And I can call the 800 number back with the reformatting issue, if needed.

I THINK (I am not sure of this) that once I sign away a great deal of money to Microsoft that they will drag my old Word and Excel docs up to current status. That's what they did at work. I'm also going to print out the most vital of the docs, so if worse comes to worst, I can re-input all the data manually. Yes, I would do that, just to avoid the cloud getting the passwords to my retirement accounts and other stuff. Yes, I'm a Luddite, apparently.

A GF talked to me about 2 factor authentication for my G drive. I do realize it's wise to have that, even for the silly, non-financial stuff I use Gmail for. I will look into that as well.
Do you think that if I do the 2 factor authentication that my G drive would be reasonably safe from hacking? I am not sure anyone can know that for sure, but...
So, here's my plan:

Finish the back up of old MB. Write up notes on how to do this for next time.
Check out link Pencil provided for 1 time purchase of $120 Microsoft Product (which is NOT an option when I attempt to open a Word doc on my M2. They only push the subscription).
Check out the Google drive download (but I would still have the 2 factor authentication) and use that instead of the Microsoft Office purchase. If I did this, I would (obviously) convert the old Word docs to Google docs etc. How exposed are they?



Go live on a compound in Idaho and deal only in barter is Plan B. lol

I realize that some of you are likely rolling your eyes at all this angst about tech and progress etc. And that's okay. We all have different life skills and interests. But I am sure that I am not alone in the angst, and I also think there are any number of people who just Don't Think About It and are probably living with insanely exposed financial data or other security risks due to just this issue. That's one reason I share my angst. Usually when I ask a "stupid" question, there is at least 1 other person who thanks me later for doing so.

I'm not done by a long shot, but I feel like I'm starting to figure stuff out. That is largely due to Pencil(who gets a nice dinner!), but others here as well. Thank you all. I do appreciate my Giraffe friends, more than you will ever know.

*did not know I had something called Time Machine on my Mac.

[mjmlabs]

[Blast it all, I started mouthing off before bringing m'self up to speed. Nevermind, sorry for the interruption. ]

[Pencil]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

I'm not done by a long shot, but I feel like I'm starting to figure stuff out. That is largely due to Pencil(who gets a nice dinner!), but others here as well. Thank you all.

I THINK (I am not sure of this) that once I sign away a great deal of money to Microsoft that they will drag my old Word and Excel docs up to current status. That's what they did at work.

I have word 2015, not 2021, but I cannot fathom that things are different. MS wants to keep you in their corral. So I made a new document, saved that as a Word-97, closed everything, double clicked the doc and Word -15 opened it right away. Up on top of the Word window it said - in square brackets - [compatibility mode] which I interpret as saying that it has formatted this for the newer version.* To get it totally up to date you have to pick File -> Save as…


* Changing things like fonts that are no longer there and stuff like that.

Do you think that if I do the 2 factor authentication that my G drive would be reasonably safe from hacking? I am not sure anyone can know that for sure, but...

No, no one can be sure. But it’s as safe as you can reasonably hope for. I would say the risk is greater for the hard drive to spontaneously catch fire and start dancing La Cucaracha.

Check out the Google drive download (but I would still have the 2 factor authentication) and use that instead of the Microsoft Office purchase. If I did this, I would (obviously) convert the old Word docs to Google docs etc. How exposed are they?

Are you afraid of them getting hacked, i.e. personal information getting exposed? Or that the files will be lost, corrupted? In either case I’m a firm friend of belt & suspenders. 2FA will do a lot for the former, having a backup for the latter. If you split things into separate files, you’re going to be even safer regarding exposure, i.e. don’t keep all your passwords in one file, and do not name the file Password. Better to have something really innocuous such as Tina’s Bday invite and Regulations nursing station2. Keep half the password in one file, and the second half in the next.
Note: This is for your peace of mind only. No one will ever get that far.

Go live on a compound in Idaho and deal only in barter is Plan B. lol

Iowa is next door. Maybe their ’well regulated militia’ is less wacky than the one in Idaho. Corn or taters?

did not know I had something called Time Machine on my Mac.

It takes a very long time the first run, since it’s basically cloning the hard drive, warts and all, i.e. it’s not just backing up files, it backs up everything. Everything? Yes everything.

We all have different life skills and interests. But I am sure that I am not alone in the angst

No, no you are not. But admitting that is another thing and kudos for doing so. The majority of users are blindly ignorant and [broad brush] men are not only blindly ignorant, but often think that they know and understand way more than they actually do. This is especially the case with tech, where they somehow think they are supposed to know that stuff.

[eleanorigby]

TBF, computers were viewed as a masculine sort of thing, at least among some (most) folks. Never mind all those women helping NASA get to the moon and all....

I have done eff all about this so far. I did get my old MB backed up, so there's that. I am off this Friday, when some of these decisions will be made.

I have more silly questions, some of which I know the answers to (but want to be sure).
1. The 2FA does not appear on either of my laptops. Apparently I had already signed up for it a ways back. I think it does not show up because I must have told Google that I trust my devices. Does this sound correct? If not, I have another problem to solve (I would need to change my PW for my Google account at the very least, I would think).

2. Does my M2 have some sort of Word equivalent? Apple used to have Notes (?) or some fool thing that I used for a hot NY minute one day back in 2008. I just figured out (DUH) that IF I wanted to only have my Word docs on this M2 I would still need Word or the equivalent. Brains, I have them... all of this is not me saying I would use Notes, but I'd like to know if it's there.


3. If I'm using the laptop but am not active, it very quickly goes into some sort of sleep mode (I realize this is to conserve battery, which is on day 5 of not being charged--I haven't used it since 3/25--which is remarkable) and I have to login again. This is annoying AF. Anyway to change it? If it's more than 3 steps, forget it; I'll adjust.

4. I am (barring any tomfoolery on Microsoft's part) going to go with the outright purchase of Office. When I do that, I'm sure it's part of the Cloud and all, but does it get downloaded to my M2? Is there a way to just have the software on this machine or am I stuck with the Cloud. You may have already covered this, but repeat yourself. TIA.

5. If the 2FA is as strong as you say, why do I need Word? I could just upload my (very) old Word docs to my Google drive, save them as G docs/sheets etc and be done, no? I just feel I need some way to create actual documents that can be printed out (I do know that Google docs can be printed), but also if I don't have Word, how can I download the docs and save them on my own hard drive? Am I making any sense?

I feel I have 2 options: use my Google drive, which is safe enough, but I'm stuck with that "share this link" if I want to share a document with someone else. OR purchase Office and then I have options, at least until 2026. Maybe I'll be gaga by 2026 and not care by then....

[hajario]

When I bought office furniture in 2018, I downloaded it and was given a key that could be reused if something happened. It’s in my email somewhere. I also paid something like $15 extra and got it on a little thumb drive.

[AHunter3]

I personally think two-factor authentication is "security theatre" and likely to be supplanted in the relatively near future. On my computer, I can't remote in to my workplace without picking up my cell phone and clicking "authenticate" to prove I'm me, but on the phone itself I can remote in, switch to the authentication app when it bings, and get in all on the same device, and it's a lot easier to misplace or steal (or it would be if I used it like everyone else does and toted it around with me everywhere I went).

My guess is fingerprint ID (which Apple has already implemented) plus iris ID (all these devices have good video cameras nowadays). Lots harder to hack and no issue with "oh but the device I set up for 2-factor is back home or in my car".

Originally Posted by hajario

When I bought office furniture in 2018, I downloaded it and was given a key that could be reused if something happened

I just bought a replacement office chair. I didn't realize I had the option of downloading it. That would have been so much easier than dragging the box through the front door and then up the stairs!

[JackieLikesVariety]

Originally Posted by AHunter3

I just bought a replacement office chair. I didn't realize I had the option of downloading it. That would have been so much easier than dragging the box through the front door and then up the stairs!

I assume you have a 3D printer...

[Pencil]

Things would be so much easier if we were able to sit in the same room.

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

1. The 2FA does not appear on either of my laptops. Apparently I had already signed up for it a ways back. I think it does not show up because I must have told Google that I trust my devices. Does this sound correct? If not, I have another problem to solve (I would need to change my PW for my Google account at the very least, I would think).

2FA shows up when you try to login from a new (i.e. unknown) device. Say you have Gdrive on your computer. Now you want to download it and have it on your phone (Why? This is just an example). When doing that and logging in, it will send you an email, asking you to confirm that you want to authorise the use on the phone. That is the second factor, meaning you can't just use the password, you have to confirm it from another source. IOW, you don't setup 2FA as such.
You should change your Google PW. I mean, you really, really should. That might open up a whole lot of work, since you have probably saved your password in a few (a lot?) of places. It is damned convenient when your browser asks "Do you want to save the password for this?" and you only have to click Yes.
My advice: You should do this when everything else is in place and you are comfy with the setup. Do it now and you might run into having to change things again. Nice and easy, simple. Take your time.

(@Ahunter3 does have a point. There will come a time when we will have our ID cards in our phones, but we're not there yet. Soon, I think. Also depending on location and legislation)

2. Does my M2 have some sort of Word equivalent? Apple used to have Notes (?) or some fool thing that I used for a hot NY minute one day back in 2008. I just figured out (DUH) that IF I wanted to only have my Word docs on this M2 I would still need Word or the equivalent. Brains, I have them... all of this is not me saying I would use Notes, but I'd like to know if it's there.

Pages. It will open your Word documents just fine. There's a bit of a learning curve for people used to MS Office, but not horrible. The drawback is that even though Apple has set up Pages to open everything, saving in that format locks you into the Appleverse, since you can't send docs from Pages to a PC and expect people to be able to open them. Even when I and everyone I worked with had the Apple software, we stuck with Office, since it would be a pain to have to convert whenever we communicated outside our own little world.
My advice: Skip Pages.

3. If I'm using the laptop but am not active, it very quickly goes into some sort of sleep mode (I realize this is to conserve battery, which is on day 5 of not being charged--I haven't used it since 3/25--which is remarkable) and I have to login again. This is annoying AF. Anyway to change it? If it's more than 3 steps, forget it; I'll adjust.

For this you have to go to System Settings, which is at  and second down in the menu. It looks a little different than it used to, but what you want to do is find Screen Saver and basically disable everything - almost. Here it is step-by-step:
- There should be a timer for when the Screen saver kicks in. Set that to never. You computer will protest and say that the life span of the screen will be affected and that it will affect battery time (as you surmised). Screw that noise. Say yes and disable it.
- In the vicinity there's an icon labeled lock screen. Set this to maybe five minutes or so. That way, if you close the screen, it will not lock up right away, but after five minutes. I find it effing annoying that I have to type the password if I close the lid only to reach for something. But... it is good for safety.
My advice: make a habit of closing the lid when not actively using the computer. That's a better way to save the screen and the battery, than relying on software to do it for you.

4. I am (barring any tomfoolery on Microsoft's part) going to go with the outright purchase of Office. When I do that, I'm sure it's part of the Cloud and all, but does it get downloaded to my M2? Is there a way to just have the software on this machine or am I stuck with the Cloud. You may have already covered this, but repeat yourself. TIA.

5. If the 2FA is as strong as you say, why do I need Word? I could just upload my (very) old Word docs to my Google drive, save them as G docs/sheets etc and be done, no? I just feel I need some way to create actual documents that can be printed out (I do know that Google docs can be printed), but also if I don't have Word, how can I download the docs and save them on my own hard drive? Am I making any sense?

I do not like MS. I think Windows has turned into an advertising platform. With that said, having Word, Excel and Powerpoint on your hard drive and control over everything seems to be the best option for you.
My advice: Buy Office for $150, use Gdrive as a quick backup, do a serious backup every three or six months using Time Machine and an external HD.

(n.b. This is not what I would do for my own computer today, nor what I would recommend @SmartAleq to do, since I know she's got skillz. But I think this is the option that will make you feel safe, somfortable and familiar with how things work.)

I feel I have 2 options: use my Google drive, which is safe enough, but I'm stuck with that "share this link" if I want to share a document with someone else. OR purchase Office and then I have options, at least until 2026. Maybe I'll be gaga by 2026 and not care by then....

See above. Do it old school. Remember that MS stops supporting Office 2021 in '26; it doesn't mean it'll stop working.

You won't be gaga by '26. IIRC we're the same age (born 1961) and 65 is no age for a librarian and RN. Two of the most no-nonsense professions I know of.

[eleanorigby]

My stupid M2 decided to not recognize my WiFi. So annoying. I have zero idea what the WA2/ something security setting is, and do not recall having to pick it when I had my WiFi set up when I moved.

So, what the hell is all that, how do I know which one to choose (there are several WA/PA options). I left the original WA/PA settings as they displayed, and finally found a place to actually enter my PW. And NOW my WiFi works.

So, why did it work to begin with (I never had to login to my WiFi when I brought the M2 home; it just worked). Weirdly, it was faintly picking up my EXT upstairs. I even went through the (IMO useless--I mean, it didn't help me, right?) diagnostics test for Apple. I muddled through, but I sure wish some of it made sense. There's always some new hiccup in my giddy-up.

So, tomorrow is MS Office day. That's good to know, Haj. I appreciate it.

Full disclosure, Pencil: I did not read your newest post as yet. I know I'm a wimp, but the whole WiFi thing took my energy for tonight (I was on fumes anyway; taking tomorrow off made me work late tonight). I will absorb your wisdom tomorrow over breakfast. I feel you are my secret weapon, or more nicely, a treasure + a source of wisdom. Thank you.

[Pencil]

Quick reply re: WiFi.
Since Apple store moved stuff from your old to your new computer, the WiFi settings came along. That's why it worked when you first came home.

As for why it's acting up now? I don't really know, but since you got it back in working order, let's just leave it at that.

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by Pencil

Quick reply re: WiFi.
Since Apple store moved stuff from your old to your new computer, the WiFi settings came along. That's why it worked when you first came home.

As for why it's acting up now? I don't really know, but since you got it back in working order, let's just leave it at that.

So SIMPLE when one knows.... I ended up having to reboot my router this morning because my iPhone 13 decided to not recognize my EXT/booster/repeater thingy upstairs, even though I was upstairs. By then it was midnight so I just went to sleep. This morning I rebooted my router, and got my WiFi back and working. THE LIGHTS WERE BLINKING IN SEQUENCE! (this is an Airplane joke).

Imma finish this Perry Mason episode and then buy me some Microsoft stuff. Here's hoping.

[Pencil]

I'm a firm believer in Good Enough™
I can't make a person sitting next to me an expert. Doing it with someone 4200 miles away over internet? No.
But if I can help get you up and running, feeling comfortable and safe/secure with your setup, and not having to worry for the rest of the decade, then I consider that Good Enough.
And we will get there.


I am semi retired and have the time. It also helps me being somewhat up to date on tech, as I do double check stuff before posting it here, to be sure I'm not leading you down the wrong path. One example is the most recent face lift in MacOS, which I know of, but haven't installed myself. So I had to chase down screen shots, to confirm what I had a fairly good idea about, but wanted to make doubly sure.

[eleanorigby]

I'm so sorry to be this person, but I've found deeper levels of hell here.

I so wanted this to be a victorious post.

I just spent $164.95 (NO REFUNDS). I cannot get it to install. I called the 877 number. They've moved all support online. I chatted with "Raymart" prior to purchase (I was not sure about the "key" because it said I should read it off a card(?))
Got really nowhere with Raymart, who --never mind--comedy of stupidity on both ends, so I bailed. Well, I'd welcome Raymart back with open arms, but the funny thing is... I can't find CHAT anymore on the website.
So, I've been trying to troubleshoot. I went down into my Computer to the Library (as instructed) and find a folder there, but it's from 2010. I think this means I may need to uninstall my old Word stuff....
I get this weird pop up when I try to download. I took a screenshot of it (literally with my iPhone) It says
You have chosen to open OfficeSetup.exe which is: EXE file (7.2MB) from c2rsetup.officeapps.live.com
What should Firefox do with this file?

• Open with <Microsoft Word (default)> (only option on this line)
  Save File

I saved it, and I see it in finder, but clicking on it opens another weird pop up with all manner of symbols (looks like code to me) and I don't know what to choose. So far, I've saved it 3 times (I deleted 2 of them). Nothing.

I'm no tech guru, but this is not normal...

I have to go to a research meeting now, with real people who think I'm smart. I am just sick about this, mostly because the instructions on the MS website are not clear to me.

[Pencil]

ALERT:

You've downloaded the install file for Windows.
All files for Mac should have .dmg or .pkg after the name.
The site you downloaded from should have detected that you have a Mac.

Delete all files named .exe and start over.

Regarding the key thing. Didn't @hajario mention something about that upthread? This is something I cannot help you with. Maybe he can assist?

[hajario]

Originally Posted by Pencil

ALERT:

You've downloaded the install file for Windows.
All files for Mac should have .dmg or .pkg after the name.
The site you downloaded from should have detected that you have a Mac.

Delete all files named .exe and start over.

Regarding the key thing. Didn't @hajario mention something about that upthread? This is something I cannot help you with. Maybe he can assist?

My recollection is that I got a unique code that looked something like CYGC6-K6KDM-3K59M-287G7-2WMWC (which is my actual key with a few characters changed). That was what I used when I went to the download site and what I would use again if I got a new laptop.

[eleanorigby]

VICTORY WE HAVE VICTORY!!!

OMG. This was a JOURNEY, y'all. When we left our plucky heroine, she had gone to do research-y things. That went well (thank God), so I girded my loins to commence with this again.

I reread the instructions, and followed something I no longer recall (my memory is sh*t these days, truly). When whatever it was didn't work (aside: a cute message appears at the bottom of the screen if you choose NO for "was this helpful?" It says: "We're sorry this didn't help." but nothing else).

That made me laugh.
I did not know that was a Windows app. NO wonder it didn't work!

At this point, I decided to go for help. I wanted to schedule a special one on one session because I know me, but I couldn't find that again, but I did find Contact Us or Help or something. I landed on Akash, and I am here to tell you that he is the bomb.
I 'splained. He asked me how big the files were. Told him (don't recall now because all of it went into the Trash). Asked him basic questions (like "to uninstall I should drag it to the Trash then empty the Trash, right?" level)

BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO MESS THIS UP.

And he walked me through it all. He sent me a link (after confirming I have enough memory to succeed. Computer memory, silly!) and I clicked on it.

Nothing happened. Checked downloads and there was the labeled Installer!
Then we went through a bit of a song and dance wherein "MacOS cannot be sure this isn't malware" [paraphrased] and refused to let it open. This threw Akash (you can imagine what it did to me).

The said it was zero bytes, and a weird file below it had 1.71GB. Even I figured out that THAT is Office for Home 2021... but it would not open.

He told me to drag it to my desktop and try again. Same deal.

And I swear I do not know what happened. I had just asked him if I should drag the whole thing to the Trash etc. when There Was Movement in My Dock.



A pop up appeared telling me to follow instructions to install. There was great rejoicing in the land.

Akash stayed with me for the 6 minutes it took to install. I thought we were done. But Akash sees farther: he told me to open Word. Did. Said I needed to input my key in order to activate Office.

That's when I had to tell Akash that I had received 2 email confirmations from MS, each with its own key....

Earlier I had logged on to my credit card site, and checked: only one charge. I took a gamble and picked the first one to copy/paste.
Akash didn't know what to do about that one.

Anyhoo, I went to Word>File> whatever and clicked on Activate Office. Instead of a window to input the key, I got a giant blue check and a message that said You're good to go (or similar). I told Akash, and he said that "my email must have verified it" [I had had to give him my name, email and cell # in case we got cut off], so I'm assuming they did something internally to get my stuff installed.

Anyway, then I asked the $64,000 question: can I get my old stuff? He said I should be able to. I know my Word stuff is there (as far as I've checked), but have not yet checked Excel.

I gave him 5 stars and a nice note. He is an example of what stellar customer support service should be.

I still have questions, but I am so relieved now. I'll wait until tomorrow to task you all with more inane queries.

[Pencil]

I can hear the absence of teeth gnashing from over here

I forgot. Mea culpa.
Apple wants you to only download from the Apple App Store, where they verify. It's mostly for good, but in cases like these, there's a security setting under system settings, that you don't need right now, where you can tell the machine that YES I REALLY WANT TO INSTALL THIS.

Thanks @hajario it seems Rigs managed lift off, by her own (with a little help from CS).

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by Pencil

Apple wants you to only download from the Apple App Store, where they verify. It's mostly for good, but in cases like these, there's a security setting under system settings, that you don't need right now, where you can tell the machine that YES I REALLY WANT TO INSTALL THIS.

This is what I am talking about. How would I know that? WHY would I know that? Apple and Microsoft assume people do this often and know this. WE DO NOT (many of us)

Also, more stupid questions to follow. Mostly, how to be able to find my needed files more easily... right now I'm drilling down and would like them more to hand. I think I'll make a folder on my desktop... (commence the gnashing of Pencil's teeth!)

[AHunter3]

Nicely done!

I too am familiar with the process of "I haven't the vaguest idea what these steps did but I did these steps and they worked". Having done my share of that to make Unix things happen on the Mac.

[Pencil]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

I think I'll make a folder on my desktop... (commence the gnashing of Pencil's teeth!)

Nah. Do it.
A folder is not a problem, it's individual files. I do the same. The stuff that I'm currently working on and need quick and easy access to all go in a folder on the desktop. When I feel I'm done, I move the files to another folder deep down in the mysterious quagmire that is my hard drive.



Just to see for yourself, and this is Rigs with computer AP class, so feel free to skip:

Save a pic and a folder on your desktop. Highlight the pic, hit space bar. The pic will show up in all it's glory. Highlight the folder. It will also pop up, but only with big representation of the folder itself, which uses very little computer power, as it only takes up 4KB. I checked a couple of pictures and they vary from 290KB to 2500KB.
These are just random pics in .gif and .jpg format from the internet. So the one large pic is the equivalent of 625 folders. Imagine trying to open all those folders at once and what that would do to your computer and screen. Now a picture is a single file, which makes it a lot easier to handle, but it still uses a lot more resources.
BTW: Don't store 625 folders on your desktop.

[eleanorigby]

Many thanks, Pencil. You are my own dear Pencil. ALL of you in this thread who helped or tried to help or sympathized and said nice things are wonderful people. Thank you!

I have a space at the bottom of my screen (it's not quite the Dock) where I can see my open Word and Excel files. No worries, there are only 3. Here's my question: attempting to drag and drop those icons into a desktop folder does not work. I assume that means I have to drill down again to whatever, right click on the desired document, and drop it onto my desktop or, if I'm super-organized, into the folder I've already created on my desktop.


Another, unrelated question. In my Dock, I still have 4 international ban symbols covering up icons. One is the old iPhoto library. Can I safely drag that to Trash (don't want to lose the pics, but unless I'm mistaken, they're all in the new iPhoto, which isn't all that new these days). Same goes for the stuff I've never touched and don't know what they stand for. I think one is iChat? And there's a weird space telescope sort of icon + a computer monitor for the other one, and the last one I can't make out at all. They seem... vestigial to me on this new M2.

Which I like very much, btw. I'm enjoying it now, Hajario! It has a few quirks, one of which is to highlight text if you look at the screen hard enough or a slight breeze wafts by (hyperbole). The other is if you don't keep track of where your cursor is, bookmarked (menu bar) websites will suddenly open on you. And the font size on the screen is hella small, but other than that, I love it.

[eleanorigby]

I went ahead and created a Life folder on my desktop. Mac gave me a sternly worded pop up about how this takes it out of the cloud and won't be available on any of my other devices, as if I even know how to access my iCloud on my iPhone in the first place... I don't need this stuff on my iPad, either.

I have 12 folders on my desktop. Is that too many? 1 holds 60 images.

Another "banned" dock icon is Photo Booth, which was a lot of fun, and I have the pics in iPhoto. Can I 86 that one as well? I haven't (and won't) do anything with those until I hear from someone smarter than me in this subject.

[AHunter3]

I'm mostly a non-Dock-user. But I recall that if you right-click anything in the Dock and go to "Options" you can select "Show in Finder" and it will take you to the item itself where it lives on your hard drive.

I'm totally a non-Cloud person. I do not use anything that calls itself "cloud". Cloud bad. Cloud deliberately obscures where things actually are. Cloud treat computer users as too stoopid to understand local folder hierarchies versus "your files are being stored on somebody else's computer, which is acting as a file server".

[Pencil]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

I have a space at the bottom of my screen (it's not quite the Dock) where I can see my open Word and Excel files. No worries, there are only 3. Here's my question: attempting to drag and drop those icons into a desktop folder does not work. I assume that means I have to drill down again to whatever, right click on the desired document, and drop it onto my desktop or, if I'm super-organized, into the folder I've already created on my desktop.

This one is fairly straight forward:
Open two (2) finder windows.
In first window use the menu in the column to your left, click on Desktop.
In the second, use the menu to find the column where you want to save stuff.
In the first window you'll see everything on the desktop, including things hiding behind other things.
Drag the free ranging files in the first window and drop them into the folder in the second window.

(Anecdote from work: One user had managed to have a folder right over trash. Whenever she thought she had dropped something in that folder, she actually dropped it in trash and then couldn't locate it. She had exams to be printed, excel files with results to use for grading. Came to me at the end of the semester crying. We saved it all)

Another, unrelated question. In my Dock, I still have 4 international ban symbols covering up icons. One is the old iPhoto library. Can I safely drag that to Trash (don't want to lose the pics, but unless I'm mistaken, they're all in the new iPhoto, which isn't all that new these days). Same goes for the stuff I've never touched and don't know what they stand for. I think one is iChat? And there's a weird space telescope sort of icon + a computer monitor for the other one, and the last one I can't make out at all. They seem... vestigial to me on this new M2.

All, I repeat ALL icons in the dock are shortcuts. That means you can delete them and it will not affect or remove anything important. I remove any app that I never or very seldom use to minimize clutter.
iChat is probably iMessage. It can be used to send texts (sms) from your computer, instead of using the phone. But it only works when sending to people that also have Iphones. That makes it pointless to use on the computer, IMO, since more than half the people in my contact list don't have Apple gear. I can't say I recognise the other icons you described, but move them to the trash.
Tech for those interested: iMessage sends through WiFi if that's available and if the recipient also has an Iphone and is within reach of their Wifi it will be sent for free, piggy backing on the internet connection. I have unlimited texts in my plan, so why bother. The only reason I can think of is if I should text Rigs because my free texts only work within the EU.

And the font size on the screen is hella small

That can be changed:

Hold down ctrl and click anywhere on an empty space on the desktop
Pick "show View Options"
A new window, probably tall and skinny, will show. Here you can pic size of the icons on the desktop and pick a font size you like.

I went ahead and created a Life folder on my desktop. Mac gave me a sternly worded pop up about how this takes it out of the cloud and won't be available on any of my other devices, as if I even know how to access my iCloud on my iPhone in the first place... I don't need this stuff on my iPad, either.

As mentioned earlier, Apple really wants you to save to iCloud, for the same reason all the other vultures tech companies do. They give you a little space, which will quickly fill up, and then they want to charge you a monthly fee. Don't fret, you did the right thing.

I have 12 folders on my desktop. Is that too many? 1 holds 60 images.

No. But don't go over board. Keep the desktop neat and tidy. A layout might be
Work, Money, Doggy, Car, Home, Pics, Kids, then other folders one step below. Say the Money folder might have folders like Mortgage, Savings, Budget There's a little info about why Gdrive is good at the end. Don't peek Rigs, that is for later!

Another "banned" dock icon is Photo Booth, which was a lot of fun, and I have the pics in iPhoto. Can I 86 that one as well? I haven't (and won't) do anything with those until I hear from someone smarter than me in this subject.

Those banned icons are there because you had your old computer cloned. They might not work for this new computer or are hopelessly outdated. Those in the dock can be deleted, but they are only a reflection of the originals in Apps, which will also have a 🚫 over them.

This is not urgent. Do not do this until all other things are done, but I might as well put it here, because I won't remember it otherwise:

You need to do something about that outdated software. It's not dangerous, but it does take up some space. There might also be newer and spiffier versions available. So, this is what you do.
• -menu -> App store -> updates. Update everything, but be prepared, this will probably take a lot of time - hours - and if you're working on something, it will only slow it down. Let it churn by itself over night. The reason it takes so long is that it will update your Operating System, OS, to the latest version (a new one dropped a few days ago). This is good, since it takes care of any security issues.
• If you still have icons with banned over them, look in App Store to see if they have a newer version of say Photo Booth. If it's an app you want, download it.
• Once that is done - take all the icons with the 🚫 and drag them to the trash. Empty the trash.

p.s.
A good thing about Gdrive* is that those virtual folders I have mentioned earlier, which really are tags, make it possible to keep the same file in two or more folders. Say there's a file with a list of car repairs, it can be in both the Car folder and the Money folder. Nifty, albeit a bit scary too if you don't know what is going on.


*and possibly with Office365, but I'm not up to date

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by Pencil

This one is fairly straight forward:
Open two (2) finder windows.
In first window use the menu in the column to your left, click on Desktop.
In the second, use the menu to find the column where you want to save stuff.
In the first window you'll see everything on the desktop, including things hiding behind other things.
Drag the free ranging files in the first window and drop them into the folder in the second window.

Huh. I can see doing this for other things, but my folders are good for now. (I do need to take a rainy afternoon or some such and spend a few hours arranging/organizing my documents better within my hard drive. For so long I didn't understand where or sometimes even how I was saving stuff. The problem with "independent study" is that you literally don't know what you don't know....).
And I dunno if you tech gurus realize this, but there is value to opening something like the desktop a different way as you describe. I tend to ignore some of the desktop folders I've created (I liken them to "that stack of papers on your office desk that you mean to sort through eventually"), but seeing just the file/document names listed as above in Finder, and suddenly I want to make things tidy.

Human interaction and behavior with tech fascinates me.

(Anecdote from work: One user had managed to have a folder right over trash. Whenever she thought she had dropped something in that folder, she actually dropped it in trash and then couldn't locate it. She had exams to be printed, excel files with results to use for grading. Came to me at the end of the semester crying. We saved it all)

This is giving me fainting spells!

All, I repeat ALL icons in the dock are shortcuts. That means you can delete them and it will not affect or remove anything important. I remove any app that I never or very seldom use to minimize clutter....I can't say I recognise the other icons you described, but move them to the trash.

Which means I can get rid of (or try to) iGarageBand or whatever. No doubt it's the bomb for those so inclined, but I will never use it. I probably can't dump it because it's APPLE and therefore sacred, but I'll try.

The only reason I can think of is if I should text Rigs because my free texts only work within the EU.

Am imagining the freak out on my end if a text should show up on M2...where, exactly? ON A SLIGHTLY RELATED NOTE: a chime just sounded on M2. A 3 tone pleasant chime, that I have NO IDEA what it is for. There's nothing new on my desktop. No new tabs have "appeared", there's nothing new in downloads. My M2 is musical this sunny morning. And it's wasn't my iPhone, which is in another room... :side eye: (we have no side eye emoji to express faint but growing alarm...)

Hold down ctrl and click anywhere on an empty space on the desktop
Pick "show View Options"
A new window, probably tall and skinny, will show. Here you can pic size of the icons on the desktop and pick a font size you like.

Done! But I've been holding down Command and repeatedly striking (+) which works as well for websites etc.

As mentioned earlier, Apple really wants you to save to iCloud, for the same reason all the other vultures tech companies do. They give you a little space, which will quickly fill up, and then they want to charge you a monthly fee. Don't fret, you did the right thing.

Those banned icons are there because you had your old computer cloned. They might not work for this new computer or are hopelessly outdated. Those in the dock can be deleted, but they are only a reflection of the originals in Apps, which will also have a 🚫 over them.

So... I should not just delete the icons, but delve into my drive and trash them there as well, correct? Doing so is what the "not urgent stuff" refers to below, right? My current OS is Monterey 12.6.3.

Query: The current OS is what my M2 is "set at" (don't know how else to describe it), but you are saying that since my old MB Pro was cloned onto my M2 that some of the stuff is now old (very) and needs updating, correct? IOW, data transfer only transferred the data; everyone (meaning files and apps) is clothed, but it did not dress everyone in the most current fashion. (so to speak)

This is not urgent. Do not do this until all other things are done, but I might as well put it here, because I won't remember it otherwise:

You need to do something about that outdated software. It's not dangerous, but it does take up some space. There might also be newer and spiffier versions available. So, this is what you do.
• -menu -> App store -> updates. Update everything, but be prepared, this will probably take a lot of time - hours - and if you're working on something, it will only slow it down. Let it churn by itself over night. The reason it takes so long is that it will update your Operating System, OS, to the latest version (a new one dropped a few days ago). This is good, since it takes care of any security issues.
• If you still have icons with banned over them, look in App Store to see if they have a newer version of say Photo Booth. If it's an app you want, download it.
• Once that is done - take all the icons with the 🚫 and drag them to the trash. Empty the trash.

So, I should do this before I trash the Dock icons or trash them from my hard drive.
I hear you about doing it overnight, but it also makes me anxious. I should have the most current OS (when I opened M2 the first time at home, the first thing it did was update the OS).
I just got "settled" so to speak, so I'll do this soon. I've done too much computering lately. It truly does tax me. I'm not excited about moving files or learning new steps to work with an algorithm or whatever. It's more like moving furniture, to me. YMMV.

p.s.
... Nifty, albeit a bit scary too if you don't know what is going on.

It's all scary if you don't know what's going on...

[JackieLikesVariety]

:side eye: (we have no side eye emoji to express faint but growing alarm...)

@Rebo

[Pencil]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

Huh. I can see doing this for other things, but my folders are good for now.

This was only to chase down those errant files you couldn't grab with the mouse. (We don't have a mouse smiley, do we?)

Which means I can get rid of (or try to) iGarageBand or whatever. No doubt it's the bomb for those so inclined, but I will never use it. I probably can't dump it because it's APPLE and therefore sacred, but I'll try.

You can get rid of everything in Dock. I do not - repeat - DO NOT think you should delete the finder icon. Anything else, just right-click and chose Remove from dock

A 3 tone pleasant chime, that I have NO IDEA what it is for.

WAG - some notification. Don't worry about it. Do you like a musical 'puter? It can be disabled.

:side eye: (we have no side eye emoji to express faint but growing alarm...)

Sure we do. It's very, very special:

Query: The current OS is what my M2 is "set at" (don't know how else to describe it), but you are saying that since my old MB Pro was cloned onto my M2 that some of the stuff is now old (very) and needs updating, correct? IOW, data transfer only transferred the data; everyone (meaning files and apps) is clothed, but it did not dress everyone in the most current fashion. (so to speak)

Yes, everything was transferred. This includes, but is not limited to
• Stored passwords
• Cookies
• Bookmarks
• Apps
• Documents
•Pics
• Short cuts
• Icons
And a plethora of other things as well. Since you had a computer that was more than ten years old, and Apple in their wisdom (Hah!) has changed a lot of things, some of the things moved over shouldn't be seen as 'not clothed' but rather as 'more obsolete than a 70's Leisure Suit.'

So... I should not just delete the icons, but delve into my drive and trash them there as well, correct? Doing so is what the "not urgent stuff" refers to below, right? My current OS is Monterey 12.6.3.

So, I should do this before I trash the Dock icons or trash them from my hard drive.

Dock and the software ('Apps') in the Apps folder work independently of each other. Even if you remove an app (dragging it from the apps folder to the trash) the icon in the dock will still be there.
The reason you are seeing the 🚫 is because it is on the App in the Apps folder and when you started things after moving everything from old to new, it checked all your apps and decided to tell you No-uh, that ain't gonna work.

I hear you about doing it overnight, but it also makes me anxious. I should have the most current OS (when I opened M2 the first time at home, the first thing it did was update the OS).

Do the update once you've settled with everything else. Then forget about it for six months.
People do tend to see their computers through a lens of animism. I do too. However, and trust me on this, even though it may seem so at times, computers do not have the ability to do things of their own volition. If something happens over night it's because someone programmed the computer to do things. And you can always un-do. But we're not getting into that unless needed.

I think that's about it. If I missed something, don't hesitate to ask. For these things I am VERY patient*.


*I've gotten kids with ADD, and other kids with OCD, up and running with their computers. If someone really needs help, and is not just a lazy-butt, my patience is almost infinite. Lazy-butts got the minimal help my job required me to provide, but not my patience

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by AHunter3

Nicely done!

I too am familiar with the process of "I haven't the vaguest idea what these steps did but I did these steps and they worked". Having done my share of that to make Unix things happen on the Mac.

This is very kind of you, and makes me feel a whole lot better.

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by Pencil

WAG - some notification. Don't worry about it. Do you like a musical 'puter? It can be disabled.



Sure we do. It's very, very special:

That made me laugh out loud.

...Apple in their wisdom (Hah!) has changed a lot of things, some of the things moved over shouldn't be seen as 'not clothed' but rather as 'more obsolete than a 70's Leisure Suit.

Love that you continued my metaphor.

Dock and the software ('Apps') in the Apps folder work independently of each other. Even if you remove an app (dragging it from the apps folder to the trash) the icon in the dock will still be there.

I knew this, but the other way around. I knew/know that simply removing the icon from the dock does not remove it from my hard drive. <clarity>

The reason you are seeing the 🚫 is because it is on the App in the Apps folder and when you started things after moving everything from old to new, it checked all your apps and decided to tell you No-uh, that ain't gonna work.... Do the update once you've settled with everything else. Then forget about it for six months.

Understood.

I think that's about it. If I missed something, don't hesitate to ask. For these things I am VERY patient*.


*I've gotten kids with ADD, and other kids with OCD, up and running with their computers. If someone really needs help, and is not just a lazy-butt, my patience is almost infinite. Lazy-butts got the minimal help my job required me to provide, but not my patience

THANK YOU.

[Pencil]

really is a sideway glance/look

Don't worry. I'm having fun. I'm helping people with other stuff at other venues, e.g. writing angry letter. That is much easier when one is not affected and can write angrily but detached.

I need to pass time. I've got 16 months to go before formally applying for retirement. In the mean time, I have to "be available for employment" should someone need a 6'2" almost 62 y.o. white male, consisting of trans fat and a strong desire not to work.

[eleanorigby]

MOAR questions. Tried to change the lock screen options, and did manage to do so (I chose 5 minutes). I really dislike this notion that I must always be busy at the keyboard for my computer to ready for me.

But now I'm because Apple wanted to alter something called a keychain for all my other devices. Thing is, I don't shop online on my phone (I surf social media on my phone). I would only use my iPad for Amazon or similar if in some sort of dire circumstance. This is another case where Apple thinks it knows how customers act, and it's clueless.

Of course I want all my devices safe. Who doesn't? But I shouldn't have to isolate 1 device's entire security set up just to change this setting. Am I nuts?

So, now instead of helping me feel like I'm in charge of my own laptop, Apple has left me with a vague dread that by not wanting the lock screen to happen "immediately", I am open to all manner of predatory whatever. I cannot believe people do this for fun. Jesus wept. <--that's for Apple.


PS: also noticed (but it was grayed out so I couldn't do anything) that for Privacy, Siri is checked. I loathe Siri and Alexa with the heat of 1000 hot suns, so I want that GONE soon. But again, does that mean I won't be able to have my "find my phone" thingy? Gah....

I'm going to go read a print murder mystery. Enough for one day.

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by Pencil

really is a sideway glance/look

Don't worry. I'm having fun. I'm helping people with other stuff at other venues, e.g. writing angry letter. That is much easier when one is not affected and can write angrily but detached.

I need to pass time. I've got 16 months to go before formally applying for retirement. In the mean time, I have to "be available for employment" should someone need a 6'2" almost 62 y.o. white male, consisting of trans fat and a strong desire not to work.

Ah, well then.... I share your desire to no longer work, but alas, I am only 60.

Re the emoji, I was thinking of the phone one that is just 2 brown eyes, looking left. I'd make them blue and have them gazing right, just to be ornery.

[Pencil]

Quick reply, because it's about 11 p.m. here and I'm getting tired.

Now don't freak out, but
WARNING

The keychain thing is just above my security clearance.
Try to avoid anything regarding the keychain. If your computer proposes anything, decline and back out of it carefully. Things can go very, very wrong if they aren't done properly and I am not the guy who can help you remotely. Sorry. If keychain thing starts acting up/happening again, contact Apple support.
Really.

Keychain is where your password and stuff to your hardware, i.e. the computer, is stored. This IS NOT the same as the passwords for Office, Google ASF. If things go wrong, you'll probably end up going to Apple store.

As for Siri (and everything like that) I am a luddite too. So I can safely say that turning off Siri will not do anything to screw up Find my... I have Find my... for all my devices, including four AirTags and it works very well, without ever having opened Siri.

[Rebo]

Originally Posted by JackieLikesVariety

@Rebo

[JackieLikesVariety]

Originally Posted by Rebo

that's fantastic! thank you, Rebo

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by Rebo

PERFECTION! Rebo always comes through for me and this board.

[eleanorigby]

Okay. The Apps that need updating for me are iMovie (never use; would not know what to use it for) and GarageBand (no use for this) and something on a stick I forget what it was. Hang on. Keynote and Pages as well.


And to make things confusing, it says in Apps to update, Microsoft Word with a cloud and a down arrow. I have no idea if that means I need to update it or if this is vestigial from Word or what.

I mean, logically, it should mean my new Word needs an update, yes? I dunno. BUT I think Word (MS) would tell me upon opening it, no? So why not wait for that?

I no longer have Monterey; I've been updated to Ventura. Go me.

So, do I NEED to update these things? I just spent all day updating my OS. And just like always, it's not "set it to update and walk away"; it needs babysitting. Came down 3 hours later and it needed me to login again and close something in order to finish the update. <sigh>

I have more questions (I will never run out of questions. I AM that person), but can't think of them at present.

Cannot wait to delve into my iTunes (sorry, iMusic or whatever). My iTunes has been... odd for a very long time. It takes me an hour to add a song to a playlist via my laptop (or it did). My iPhone 13 can add a song in seconds. I'm a DEVOUTLY hoping that with the new laptop, adding songs and creating playlists should be easier. One thing I hope changes: it will stop making duplicate playlists for me, all on its own.

[Pencil]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

And to make things confusing, it says in Apps to update, Microsoft Word with a cloud and a down arrow. I have no idea if that means I need to update it or if this is vestigial from Word or what.

I mean, logically, it should mean my new Word needs an update, yes? I dunno. BUT I think Word (MS) would tell me upon opening it, no? So why not wait for that?

So, do I NEED to update these things?

Nah.

The cloud with a down arrow usually means there is something to download. I opened Word on my computer and there's no such prompt. My advice: ignore it. Should it become necessary, I am sure that whatever software that acts up will tell you.