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#51
21st October 2023, 08:22 PM
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Because I have to ponder a bit more yet.
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#52
22nd October 2023, 10:58 AM
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#53
22nd October 2023, 11:28 AM
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How about you, The Angel Satan: who do you think are scum and why?
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#54
22nd October 2023, 01:35 PM
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#55
22nd October 2023, 01:48 PM
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Sorry for not being here, very eventful weekend. But catching up I might as well say where my head is at.
Pumpqueen immediately jumps out at me as suspicious because even in a game with fakeclaims, refusing to fullclaim comes off as scummy delaying for other claims, maybe trying to see if some addition fits with flavor. Even though the game can't be immediately broken by claims I openly stated. Then again, The Angel Satan going from "I'm totally fine with claiming" on Page 1 to "don't claim, Sally, you're totally a sweet innocent cimmanon roll" on Page 2 is also pretty damn scummy. If there are partners, this is partner equity for sure. Skybreaker is acting a lot more towny today, but after catching the kind of heat they did D2, wouldn't anyone? Yes, his questioning today is def more pointed and solvy and le, but it remains to be seen if their play is actually sensible from a townie perspective the whole game. So, not the most useful post in retrospect. But I probably won't be able to do a detailed whole-game C&C until late Monday.
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#56
22nd October 2023, 04:30 PM
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Hey! I AM a totally sweet innocent cinnamon roll!
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#57
23rd October 2023, 04:34 AM
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You, Chip, seem confident that Annie is town as well, and I put some pressure on them, too. Again, they stuck to their guns and I don't see anything in the way of contradictions or inconsistency beyond the whole "Scoobie Doo Gang vs Busybody" dilemma, which I also believe has been adequately addressed. I'm going to get a little meta here, but I think it's necessary. Day 1 it was me, you, Kenough and Annie ripping each other to shreds. The Angel Satan and The Pumpkin Queen, BOTH SCUM, were mostly (as I picuture it) sitting on the sidelines with their lawnchairs, eating popcorn, watching us fight among ourselves. Day 2, same deal. Maybe they broke out the wine coolers, too, and chuckled as we flailed and ultimately lynched XÆA-12SDAD. For what it's worth, town or not, XÆA-12SDAD deserved it for non-participation, and if we lose this game, they own a fair chuck of the blame. I know I led the charge on that and I own it. Day 3 rolls around, and we barely hear a peep out of them before I out them as scum, and now they're both trying to participate without providing any kind of posting history we can analyze and nary a stand on any important matter. Chip and Annie, please weigh in on this. I'm comfortable voting either Satan or Pumpkin, but (again) I think we three are the remaining townies and need to pull together on this one.
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#58
23rd October 2023, 06:02 AM
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#59
23rd October 2023, 06:04 AM
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#60
23rd October 2023, 06:58 AM
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I'm not only not scum, but as I said, I'm in the Scooby gang. My power was to investigate someone to see if they are a fellow member.
I had a Scooby snack, I used it. My investigations were Annie and Chip.
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#61
23rd October 2023, 08:27 AM
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You've pinged me from Quote:
And you still haven't shaken me from that. You had to wait to claim, to be the same role as me? In a smaller game? I mean, if we assume Chip is Doc, which I at least am doing, and I am cop. I'm not sure the math here. it's not adding up. My Role includes :: Powers: 1. Once per game at Night, you may target another player. You will learn if they are a member of the Scooby-Doo gang or not. Gonna have to totally nail you on the "Doo" part. Seems to me to be a weird thing to omit. But a complete thing to never have. That is, I think you are making this up. You had the PIS, but you never had the Doo.
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#62
23rd October 2023, 09:45 AM
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I had to wait to claim, because a) I have a similar weakness that you do. It's not the same rule, and I didn't realize it's the same power until you came on and voted chip for not being part of the Gang.
And it's funny that you say I didn't have the Doo. I don't quite know what you mean, because I haven't n quoted anything that a word may be missing. I've paraphrased everything. You have a Dean nemesis; mine is the Dog Catcher. Name: Scooby-Doo Role: Scooby-Doo Gang Side: Good Guy Win Condition: You win when all the Bad Guys are unmasked. Powers: 1. Once per game at Night, you may target another player. You will learn if they are a member of the Scooby-Doo gang or not. Turns out, under Secrets, that my dog license is expired.
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#63
23rd October 2023, 09:48 AM
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You and I are both a very specific limited kind of Cop. I THOUGHT you were saying earlier that you were a more wide ranging type of Cop - and could discover Good or Bad.
Which is part of why I investigated YOU. That and you claimed to be part of the Scooby gang.
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#64
23rd October 2023, 09:49 AM
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And now neither of us is protected against a bonus kill. So yay?
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#65
23rd October 2023, 09:49 AM
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It's a bit weird that we both have the same power.
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#66
23rd October 2023, 09:51 AM
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The bolded is a copy and paste. The bit about the dog catcher I didn't copy and paste. Again, paraphrased.
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#67
23rd October 2023, 09:56 AM
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(And no, I'm not going to swype-type Scooby-Doo every time because I don't have the patience to do so on my phone) And obviously not me.
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#68
23rd October 2023, 10:40 AM
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#69
23rd October 2023, 02:28 PM
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I suppose I could have used the fake message provided to me on my pm, and say I was John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt.
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#70
23rd October 2023, 02:33 PM
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1. Annie Wilkes Miseried My Shin - claimed Velma
2. 3. The Angel Satan 4. Skybreaker 5. 6. The Pumpkin Queen - claimed (and AM) Scooby-Doo 7. Major Chip Hazard - claimed doc So there are five of us left, 3 have claimed. Right? Or did I miss something?
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#71
24th October 2023, 04:23 AM
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Day 1: 4 posts Day 2: 2 posts ToDay (so far): 16! Wow! Noteworthy: you voted for Kenough on D1 and XÆA-12SDAD on D2, and both were very, very late-Day votes - in the Day 1 Thread you voted Kenough in post #40 of 44 and in the Day 2 Thread you voted XÆA-12SDAD in post #77 of 79, so even though you were barely participating, you were paying close enough attention to get in a vote at EOD. Your D1 reason for voting wasn't event your own - you piggybacked on Kenough's reason... Quote:
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#72
24th October 2023, 06:39 AM
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I'm done with this.
So. I'm fighting using strong language and four letter words. After that, I'm fighting not saying anything at all. At this point, I'm just ready for the post-mortem, with a long line of questions. There is too much ambiguity in this game, and not enough given. John Jacob Jingleheimer Smittywebenmanjensen should immediately, IMMEDIATELY point to Queen's alignment. It doesn't. Yes. We have a history of claiming, a lot. We have the LOST game in our collective memory that forced the issue on mixing up name and alignment from the source material. But, at a point in time. We need glue. We need things to STICK. I'm not sure how Town is supposed to be able to amass to anything, if the doubt that is inherent, by definition of a Mafia game, is only magnified, and not lessened by the game set up. Especially in a game of only 7 or so players. Especially in a game that billed itself as frankly "" less "" of a game than most of ours. This game was supposed to be "Simple". It was all but billed as such. Especially in a game that has roles that use non standard and rushed language. Especially in a game that apparently, did not really consider the entire Standford Prison Experiment implications. [[The entire conceit of us wearing, effectively a second costume, as compared to our normal costume / account.]] And yes, some of us [[Yeah, I'm going here]] were still effectively wearing our costume from last year's game.Or whenever that was. ((No, but seriously, thank you all, for giving me the space to come out, when and how I did, .... especially here first.)) I said I was over this game, a few posts back. I think was done with this game before then. I "feel" Queen is scum. Then again I felt like Chip was. I'd like to have a way to reason this out. But again, those moments are long and coming. https://www.prisonexp.org/the-story
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#73
24th October 2023, 03:09 PM
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And I have a couple of reasons. OMGUS, obviously, that's going to be a Factor. Saying that I piggybacked off Kenough''s reason for Day 1 vote is misleading. His vote for Chip was the reason I voted him- that is, I felt he was misrepresenting the exchange (s) he had with Chip. I wasn't particularly convinced of Chip's guilt or innocence, but I felt strongly that the reasoning Ken gave was spurious. I actually requested a sub earlier because I had a health issue. Better now, but that is why my participation was lower at the game start then now. And late-Day votes? Either you haven't figured out who I am under this crown, or you're opportunistic scum.
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#74
24th October 2023, 04:02 PM
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#76
24th October 2023, 11:51 PM
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Ugh, sorry y'all. My sleep and mental state have both been terrible as of late. And it looks like terrible timing as well: whatever happens I might have to follow one of y'alls votes, because you might not get the opportunity to follow my vote.
I did sleep on the whole Pumpkin vs Satan question and in retrospect, Stan does come across looking worse for that interaction than Sally. Yeah, I kinda suspect delaying on the claim by default but in retrospect, could make sense from a laggy townie's perspective, not knowing whether or not she should trust the surface image of what's in front of her because she hasn't process the preceding information yet. Whereas Satan (who still hasn't claimed, unless I'm missing something) comes off as perhaps white-knighting/pocketing/snuggling her, and trying to keep as much info off the table as possible. Some of this may of course be counteracted by a whole-game perspective, which I shall arrange in the near future.
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#77
24th October 2023, 11:55 PM
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Oh yeah, before I begin...
@Annie Wilkes Miseried My Shin; You claimed to have an investigation ready for toNight, should the game get that far. Is there any particular reason you didn't investigate Night 1?
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#78
25th October 2023, 01:54 AM
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Chip, I’m reasonably sure me, you & Annie need to vote as a block. I’m fine with Satan, too, but if you’re voting Satan we need Annie on board as well. Given everyone’s difficulties in this game so far, perhaps you could join us and let’s lynch Pumpkin. I think we’re at lynch or loose, so this could be make it or break it.
If we tie a vote, and scum kill toNight, we’re done. If we mis-lynch, we’re done. Again, I think they’re both scum. I think we’re ok voting for either of them. If it turns out you’re scum, Chip, you’ve played a masterful game and I tip my hat to you.
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#79
25th October 2023, 02:02 AM
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Because my head is probably closer to where your head is at than it's ever been. Do you believe I've actually gotten through nearly all of the game already, and all that's left is to tie up my findings in a bow?
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#80
25th October 2023, 02:10 AM
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If you’ve gone through the whole game, and agree with me, I think we’ve got a shot at winning this.
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#81
25th October 2023, 02:15 AM
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Doing this in order of appearance on Satan, Skybreaker, and PumpQueen only. Also not posting links because that’s a huge waste of time in this context, deal w/it.
The Angel Satan D1#2 is Satan claiming to be a VT outright. Not sure I still believe it at this point (and remember Scooby Snacks are a thing), but sure, let’s look at his play from that angle. D1#12 is generically pro-town, I guess, but that proposition isn’t at all hard for any wolf to play along with. D1#18 is a bit more specifically pro-town, though. Satan is being a fair juror here by not letting a big stupid-wagon for flimsy reasons form. D1#22 is neither here nor there to me. Yeah, it’s understandable when there was no action happening but actually randomizing your vote does nothing to advance the gamestate. (you should spam menchies instead, like me.) Note that this was on Kenough, who eventually became our first “mizzle” as LightFoot adorably termed it. Hopefully tracking how that happened will be useful in some sense. D1#27 registered as a nothing post in the moment, but in hindsight it seems like a contradiction with D1#22 where he expresses the desire to push the game forward (if not exactly displaying effective tactics). Also not sure I jibe with D1#33. Surely, at that juncture, both Muskington and myself qualified more to be a “lurker” than Ken, who was at least popping in with a one-liner every so often? Why the resistance here, if it’s “no better than chance”? D1#35 comes off as another subtle flip-flop. Was “fine” lurker voting earlier but now seems to be walking it back a little. D2#2 vote for X, now known to be based off false premises. However, for a townie with no knowledge of mechanical things like whether scum must kill or not, this is not an unreasonable assertion if you think you’re living in solo-scum world. Let’s see if any partner-hunting on their part gives lie to that. D2#33-34 no partner-hunting or pairing thus far. It’s at least consistent with #2 and he could have easily taken the path of least resistance and buried me. Given that Annie was temporarily peeled off of me at the time, he could have been scum trying to pocket me and/or feeling things out to avoid later backlash, but that only makes sense if he’s riding solo – a team including Satan could have clinched it right then and there. The consistency continues with D2#43, it looks like my response actually caused him to think through his premise a bit and actually stick to his guns based on what little he could extrapolate. Too bad they killed another townie, but still! Overall, a post history that contains minor contradictions, but never reneges on core principles like prospective role and image of the game. Skybreaker D1#28 sees Sky responding to Angel Satan and in so doing placing the 2nd vote on the fateful Kenough wagon. While Kenough ending up town might make this suspicious in a vacuum, Sky’s vote is actually about as reasoned out as one could hope for at this stage in this (very sluggish) game. At the very least, Skybreaker is not thee scumbag opportunistically dunking on a townie here. D1#29, however, does raise a hackle or two. The RP point is valid, but they seem to be making the point here that the pro-town response here would have been to OMGUS Kenough for voting me? Which is not at all how townies should be operating, especially not Day 1. Townies vote wrong all the time, especially in the beginning when they’re devoid of any information. Hitting back and escalating doesn’t solve anything; you should instead be trying to establish your towniness and get as much broad discussion in as possible. Could be a playstyle difference, but necessarily absent any meta, I feel like this jumps too quickly to a foregone conclusion. At least D1#31-32 displays some consistency and shows that their focus isn’t totally narrowed to their pet suspects, with an original observation. D1#34 I don’t wanna read too much into, but I can’t help but not this post feels stilted. I can’t quite put my finger on it but “waiting for other support” while you have two suspects on the board that you have actual info on doesn’t gel with the general vibe I’ve got from Sky so far. Possible partner equity here. In D1#36 though, Sky finally follows through on things and votes X. (meaning Ken could’ve been saved if I had shown up!  ) For the game-specific reasons I cited Night 1, I consider this to be a significant pro-town move.They renege on this and go back to Kenough at D1#42, but that was quite close to deadline and everything, so I understand the frustration and willingness to compromise here. And then…we have D2#8. Oh lordy-loo, D2#fucking8. I’ve already laid into this post shortly after it was written so I won’t repeat myself. Even after it’s had time to ventilate, this post is still pretty fucking scummy in my view. I can excuse the earlier defense of X as a “what-if” moment. I can understand a paranoid townie not examining their hypothetical scum!Chip strategy to its conclusion(s) and believing I would make gonzo moves just for the fuck of it. But that fence-riding on Annie and the whole role-fishing smear are still god-awful. Basically, if I had scum!Skybreaker caught dead-to-rights right there and let him slip right through my fingers, I’m gonna feel like a total dumbass. I’m gonna try my best not to let that hypothetical scenario cloud my judgement, but I might not succeed, and I’m being frank about this so that you get my hermeneutics and maybe identify where my blind spots lie (hopefully not postgame after a scum win.) [I don’t recall if he ever named a partner for me either, but that’s what reading is for.] While we’re on the subject, however, I don’t think my assertion of Sky having “flipped positions” on X in D2#29 is viable anymore. If there’s a keystone to my lingering suspicion of Skybreaker, it’d be my D2#35. Basically, Skybreaker came across as responding to a known existential threat rather than a unknown quantity they still had to solve. Which, sure, maybe he actually believed I was an enemy of everything good and pure in that moment, but to have that confidence instantly based on that earlier moon logic, in a game this short on content, means that they operate very, very differently to the vast majority of townies I’ve ever seen. But I also don’t think Sky has squandered the town points for helping hit outside of the Snack Pack D1, as I tunnelingly assert in D2#47. In fact, until I brought it up, it looks like he’s spent the whole game without mentioning or letting slip thoughts about them even once. Not something a scumbag doing scummy things as brazen as the previous push for me could easily pull off, I reckon. D2#51, I think I should also account for the possibility that Sky went down Annie’s road legitimately. She’s town to the greatest degree of certainty that I have in this game. If it can happen to her, it can also happen to town!Skybreaker who, as far as I know, has even less info to go off. I’ll also fully admit that Sky’s D2#56 is not as terrible as I once thought, from the lens of assuming their claims are legit, but like, couldn’t they have spared a little ink going off about even one specific thing that made a Chip-Satan team viable? D2#67 is perhaps the most significant crack in the scum!Sky narrative thus far. Because if town!Sky believes that cop!Annie (remember, we still thought it was an alignment scan at this point) has investigated scum!Chip and is just stringing me along to squeeze out extra information, then their willingness to damn the torpedoes and go full steam ahead on me makes significantly more sense, even if the way they went about it was ridiculously overblown. It’s how they ignore my finely-crafted responses, thinking they’re all finely-crafted bullshit that Annie is going to take the lid off any moment. The revelation that this whole narrative is false seems to stop Sky right in their tracks. and D2#74 follows pretty logically from that. If Annie doesn’t have the result you think, then you might have gotten it all wrong. You don’t want to immediately drop the heat, but you do want to think twice. And Sky has. The Pumpkin Queen D1#39 is, to wit, Sally’s first game-relevant post. Defending X with zero-information on them could be white-knighting, but eh, I wouldn’t exactly hang my hat on it. I am suspicious of D1#40 though. This vote fits the bill more as scum dunking on Kenough (who was part of the Scooby-Doo Gang, remember, and early timidity in known townies is a well-worn bluetell.) Ken’s probing of me is clearly town motivated in retrospect, and unlike other votes so far there’s no real connection to how the cited behavior makes the votee scum (me, for instance) or how voting them benefits town (XASDWEJFOISJ). [Addendum: Now that I’ve finished D1, I can confidently say that Pumpkin’s vote on Ken does indeed come off looking the worst.] D2#40 sees her pop in the middle of a serious, consequential discussion with a jokey post. I guess the first sentence speaks to a willingness to probe Annie (which is the same protown impulse that X-A-E-I-O displayed), but immediately trying to downplaying busts my buttons. …and D2#77 sees her dunk on yet another townie after a long period of silence. No comment on anything prior. Almost like it was…wait for it…inconsequential to her. Because she wasn't threatened, and in fact hasn't been significantly threatened all fluff-posting game. Begging the question of why she never bothered to interrupt us eating each other. – And then, yeah, we have the stuff from toDay I've already noticed, such as the bogus halfway-massclaim, and the weird interaction with Sally that makes Satan look a little weird. It doesn't really change my overall estimation in the end though. I think the Pumpkin Queen has done an excellent job so far of hanging back and watching us destroy each other. It hasn't been a bad play, mind you. It hasn't been particularly obvious in the moment. But over time, there are too many chinks in the armor, plus too many reasons for the other two to be town, to ignore. Also, if I'm holding on to my grudge against Sky, then I believe Pumpkin Queen is their most likely partner, as they seem to have the least substantive interactions of any pair. That's about all I have to give today. I'll tell my fellow townies what I told Pleo last Night: if this fucks up, it's been interesting. And an honor.
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#82
25th October 2023, 12:52 PM
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Night Three at https://www.giraffeboards.com/showthread.php?t=60523
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Linear Mode
