Twelve shot dead at Batman film premiere in Denver

[BJMoose]

Originally Posted by Khampelf

How does an unemployed graduate student afford several firearms, body armor, 6000 rounds of ammunition and explosives to booby trap an apartment. How did he know how?

Rich parents ("middle upper class" by one report) and the Internet.

Originally Posted by Ken S.

I hire and fire the cops. That's what's great about democratic government. Everyone working for the state is accountable to me. The government is not an "other." The government is us.

Ah, geez. Do you really think that you, personally, have that much pull? You can't even get this bunch of clowns to take you seriously. . . .

[SmartAleq]

Aaaaand the "Asshole Victim Blamer of the Day Award" goes to Arizona Senate candidate Russell Pearce, who thinks that everybody in the theater should have been strapped and ready for an OK Corral situation and because they weren't it's their own damned fault they're dead. Bonus "Fuck You, Shitbreath" points for the fact that he can't spell his way out of a moistened paper towelette. Anybody this breathtakingly clueless is obviously a shoo-in for Arizona. Here ya go, Russell, this one's AAALLLL for you:

[Tuckerfan]

Yeah, because in a darkened theater, when a second gunman pops up and starts shooting, everyone is going to think, "Oh, cool! He's going to take out the lunatic that's trying to kill us."

[Khampelf]

I've seen proof that the Aurora shooting was staged by the FBI to cast negative light on gun ownership right before the U.N. vote that will supersede the U.S. Constitution and make the Obamas a hereditary dictatorship.

[Half-Man/Half-French]

Originally Posted by Khampelf

Used to be. Used to be.
The government isn't in the business of representing citizens anymore. The government is in the business of keeping the government in power. The cast of characters changes, but the game remains the same. That's all a vote means anymore, what flavor of buttfucking you'd prefer for the next little while.

Next time a cop pulls you over and gives you a ticket, tell him "you're fired" and drive off. Then scream "I am the government" from the holding cell while waiting for morning court.

Oh, fucking please. It's called representative democracy, and has always worked like that in the States. Why do gun nuts so often happen to be reminiscing about a past that never fucking was?

I'd be curious to know when was the "breaking point" between good Ole American Democracy and today's Governmental tyranny, according to you, with illustrations for the dimwitted.

[Pencil]

Originally Posted by Half-Man/Half-French

I'd be curious to know when was the "breaking point" between good Ole American Democracy and today's Governmental tyranny, according to you, with illustrations for the dimwitted.

I can't answer for him but I think the 1930's would be right. Giving up the gold standard and creating the system of social security numbers doomed The Land of the Free™. At least that's the impression I get from libertarians.

[Khampelf]

Originally Posted by Half-Man/Half-French

Oh, fucking please. It's called representative democracy, and has always worked like that in the States. Why do gun nuts so often happen to be reminiscing about a past that never fucking was?

I'd be curious to know when was the "breaking point" between good Ole American Democracy and today's Governmental tyranny, according to you, with illustrations for the dimwitted.

Fuck you, frog.

You really think the congressmen have his electorate's best interests first and formost? Fucking please yourself.

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by Colonel Plink

Just say the word. I've introduced a few people to safe shooting.

I would only go with someone whose gun ownership I respect, but my neighbor is much more convenient.

You don't know the cops, either. And they're armed. Tell me they've (collectively) never had a round go beyond its intended target. Tell me there aren't some cops who are no better than criminals. Truth is, people who go to the trouble to actually test for and receive our concealed permits are going, by definition, to be a better class of Human Being than the criminal.

Oh, I don't really trust cops, either. I didn't mean to leave that impression. It's just that there is SOME accountability if a cop kills a civilian. Of course, once that happens, we all enter into the script of "let's pretend that we're really going to investigate this use of 'unnecessary force' <wink, wink> and whaddayaknow--it's always proved to have been ok!" Amazing, that.

And I don't believe for a minute that people who go to the "trouble" of actually testing for and receiving CC permits are ipso facto a better class of human being than a criminal.

As opposed to poaching?

No, as opposed to assholes who get drunk and go out for a weekend of "male bonding". As opposed to the state of Idaho (or is it Wyoming--cannot remember) who have decided to increase the number of wolves a hunter can bag AND allow trapping of same (I am more opposed to the trapping which is inhumane on every level). As opposed to the fucking yahoos who think nothing of killing as many animals as they can and do not use the animal for meat or anything else. As opposed to the canned hunts like our esteemed former VP went on where a blind child could be successful. As opposed to the mentality that Me, Human can kill anything because Me, Human aka the James Cameron view of the world ("I'm King of the World!").

I've applied for and been granted a license to kill a doe by the State Of Colorado. Is it cool with you if I kill a deer?

Cuz Colorado says they're cool with it.

If CO says and you hunt in CO (where on that godforsaken prairie do deer even live? I've seen antelope, but DEER?), by all means. I'm not the arbiter of hunting rules and regs. Doesn't mean I have to approve of them or think they're the wisest course to take in all instances (see Wyoming or Idaho above).

[eleanorigby]

Anyway, back to the thread. I am so very relieved that the guy who took the bullet for his GF is not the slimeball I was thinking. But now there are 2 families grieving his loss and his kids now don't have a father.

[Half-Man/Half-French]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

Anyway, back to the thread. I am so very relieved that the guy who took the bullet for his GF is not the slimeball I was thinking. But now there are 2 families grieving his loss and his kids now don't have a father.

Well, even if he was cheating on his wife, the guy that chooses to become a human shield to save his girl can't be called a slimeball.

[Ken S.]

Originally Posted by Khampelf

You really think the congressmen have his electorate's best interests first and formost? Fucking please yourself.

They have to run for reelection every two years. They don't have a choice about pleasing the electorate. You ARE the government. Always have been. Demonizing the government is demonizing democracy.

I know the government has to be evil for your fantasies to work out, but that just isn't ever going to be the case.

[Scuba Ben]

Over in Maryland, the Congressional district map just got referred by the courts to a referendum, because the districts were designed to make sure the incumbents did not have to please the electorate, just their political party.

Ken, your assignment is to write a 3,000 word paper on "gerrymandering." It's due Wednesday. Spelling, grammar, and proper references all count towards your grade. :scitard:

[Tug]

Originally Posted by Half-Man/Half-French

Well, even if he was cheating on his wife, the guy that chooses to become a human shield to save his girl can't be called a slimeball.

Agreed.

You guys heard about Dick Bag's gun jamming...with a 100-round mag, right.

They say he could get the death penalty, but I'd donate money to keep this guy alive and miserable for the rest of his or my life.

[hajario]

There is a picture of him in court today and he does indeed have red dyed hair. He looks more like Ronald McDonald than the Joker but that tidbit was correct.

[Fenris]

They keep saying (on every tv and radio station) that "He dyed his hair red to be like the Joker".

The Joker famously has green hair--I'm not being a fanboy here, but whatever the fuck his motivation was for his red-hair job, it wasn't to be like the Joker. And if he's a fanboy-crazy-type, he'd know that.

[Dragonlady]

Even *I* know it was the Riddler that had red hair.

At least that one time..

[Uthrecht]

At band camp.

[Steophan]

Originally Posted by Ken S.

They have to run for reelection every two years. They don't have a choice about pleasing the electorate. You ARE the government. Always have been. Demonizing the government is demonizing democracy.

You realise that this is an argument in favour of allowing the populace to remove their representatives, by what ever means necessary*, if at any point they stop acting according to the wishes of the people?

It's foolish to think that the US government could never become tyrannical. It is unlikely to happen in the near future, but no state lasts for ever, and the US will not be an exception.

*Please note "necessary" does not mean "guerilla warfare at the slightest provocation".

[Ken S.]

We already do have the means to remove them. It's called voting. No other means is necessary.

It's impossible for the US government to become tyrannical, because the people are in charge. I would ask again what you want to replace democracy with if you think it's so dangerous.

[SmartAleq]

Theoretically the people are in charge, however post Citizen's United the advantages are all to the corporations. They pretty much had it sewn up, because they pay the lobbyists and hand out the phat lobbying jobs to former congresscritters who toe the line and suck the dick like they're expected to, but now that they can pour unlimited amounts of money into any and every political race from dogcatcher on up they're essentially simply buying themselves home made congresscritters and getting them elected, then keeping them that way. Look at all the fascinating voter disenfranchisement legislation that's the only thing managing to pass gridlocked state and federal governing bodies--that's all about making sure the RIGHT (i.e., bought and paid for) candidates get elected. And if voter suppression doesn't work, Diebold will just make sure the voting machines cough up the right numbers.

I'm as much of a democracy booster as it's possible to be, but it's hopelessly naive to think our entire voting process hasn't been co-opted by the deep pocket pricks.

[Steophan]

Originally Posted by Ken S.

We already do have the means to remove them. It's called voting. No other means is necessary.

It's impossible for the US government to become tyrannical, because the people are in charge. I would ask again what you want to replace democracy with if you think it's so dangerous.

You are hopelessly naive.

I'm not talking about replacing democracy, I'm talking about what happens when democracy fails.

[Ken S.]

Fails to do what?

[Steophan]

Originally Posted by Ken S.

Fails to do what?

Even you aren't that stupid.

In a state of sufficient emergency, elections can, and should, be suspended. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that, in the distant future, this will occur in the US. It is less likely, but still possible, that some unscrupulous politicians will manufacture an emergency as a power grab. In that situation, democracy can legitimately be said to have failed.

As to whether this is how the US will ultimately collapse, I've no idea. It's likely so far in the future that predictions are meaningless. It will eventually happen, though, and it's unlikely to be pretty.

[eleanorigby]

That pic of Holmes in court shows him as such a nothing. The hair looks stupid, but I'm talking about the expression on his face.

Evil is supposed to look evil, but it's always very banal. He looks like a kid (which does not mean I don't want the full force of the justice system used upon him).

Now his mother is saying that the reporter who called her misunderstood her. I wonder about that.

[Ken S.]

Originally Posted by Steophan

Even you aren't that stupid.

In a state of sufficient emergency, elections can, and should, be suspended.

What a crock of shit.

It's not possible in the US, by the way.

[Ken S.]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

That pic of Holmes in court shows him as such a nothing. The hair looks stupid, but I'm talking about the expression on his face.

Evil is supposed to look evil, but it's always very banal. He looks like a kid (which does not mean I don't want the full force of the justice system used upon him).

Now his mother is saying that the reporter who called her misunderstood her. I wonder about that.

The mom was probably talking about the "you've got the right guy" remark.

The kid is probably schizophrenic, not evil. This is just mental illness. A malfunctioning brain.

I view these kinds of things as natural disasters like earthquakes or tornadoes. There's no real moral culpability, though the kid is still dangerous and needs to be isolated from society.

[Colonel Plink]

Originally Posted by SmartAleq

Aaaaand the "Asshole Victim Blamer of the Day Award" goes to Arizona Senate candidate Russell Pearce, who thinks that everybody in the theater should have been strapped and ready for an OK Corral situation and because they weren't it's their own damned fault they're dead. Bonus "Fuck You, Shitbreath" points for the fact that he can't spell his way out of a moistened paper towelette. Anybody this breathtakingly clueless is obviously a shoo-in for Arizona. Here ya go, Russell, this one's AAALLLL for you:

Jesus. To a man, the group assembled in the gun shop today said that there was no shot to take. Every swingin' dick in the place came to the same conclusion. That in the smoke-filled pandemonium of that place, there wasn't a thing a person or five could do with handguns against that red-haired freak. These are the most seriously gunned-up motherfuckers I know and they wouldn't have taken the shot.

[SmartAleq]

Any halfway intelligent person would know that in a situation like that all bringing out more guns would do is amp up the body count. It takes a clueless internet tuff guy to bluster and posture about how he woulda gone all Call of Duty on the shooter's ass and Saved The Day. Fucking morons. How much would I love to get a herd of those fucks together, give every last one of 'em an ostensibly loaded pistol and then open fire on 'em. With blanks. Everybody gots blanks. Then watch 'em pee themselves blind while crying for their mommies. Put it up on YouTube for reference any time they get going on this kind of crap.

_{...and yes, I'm quite aware that a blank can kill you, but a girl's gotta have SOME fun, dammit!}

[hilarity n. suze]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

That pic of Holmes in court shows him as such a nothing. The hair looks stupid, but I'm talking about the expression on his face.

Evil is supposed to look evil, but it's always very banal. He looks like a kid (which does not mean I don't want the full force of the justice system used upon him).

Now his mother is saying that the reporter who called her misunderstood her. I wonder about that.

Okay, this sounded odd to me, because the first time I heard that quote (and no, I didn't hear a recording of the actual conversation) it sounded like the mom said "you have the right person" and that she said that in answer to the question of whether this shooter was her son.

Because Holmes is a pretty common name, you know?

Then it quickly morphed into a "she knew he was eeeevil" thing. I swear it's like the kid game of Telephone.

[Anacanapuna]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

(paraphrasing) Yadda, yadda, yadda ... I don't trust cops ... blah, blah, blah ... hunting is stupid .... yadda, yadda, yadda ... no deer in eastern Colorado ... blah, blah, blah.

I can only address the last of these because the others are emotional reactions to things you've only seen on TV. But I can address the last one with some simple facts from our good friends at Wikipedia. At one time wapiti ranged all across North America, but agricultural and urban development have shrunk their range to Rocky Mountain west and Pacific northwest, although there are still naturally occuring elk herds in Kansas and Nebraska. White tail deer are found all across North and Centra America and the northern areas of South America. Mule deer are found pretty much everywhere west of the Mississippi, up into Canada and down into Mexico. Long story short: If you want to see deer, come sit on my deck early some morning. We've watched does and their fawns graze on my neighbor's property less than 100 feet from my back door. Plink could easily draw a deer tag for the wildlife recreation area just downt he road from me -- about a 15 minute drive form his house.

[eleanorigby]

Uh, ok, Apuna. I didn't get any of my post from watching TV.... Nowhere did I say hunting was stupid-hunting can help keep herds healthy. I did say that there are a LOT of dumb, drunk hunters out there. Is that incorrect?

I've been out in CO any number of times. I've lived there. And no offense, I'm sure there's an austere beauty to the eastern half of the state and all, but honestly, driving through it and around in it, it's hard to see where deer would be. You can see for miles: no shrub, no cover. That's all it meant and all I meant by it.

By all means, hunt deer. I like venison sausage. I don't think it's extreme to not want nursing does shot. YMMV.


Hilarity: That was the comment I was referring to. Call me crazy, but if a reporter called me and woke me up to tell me that someone with my son's name had shot up a movie theater, I would not reply with "You have the right person." Maybe the reporter didn't say that to the mom. But she went on to say she had to fly to CO right away, so I doubt the reporter had merely asked her to verify her son's address and general description. I don't think she knew he was eeeeevil. I think she probably knew he was troubled.

There are lots of mentally ill folks who would never raise a hand to hurt another person, ever. Yes, Holmes is mentally ill (I'm going out on a limb here with that one). I don't believe in the devil, but I do believe in evil. What he did was an evil act. If he had committed suicide, I would not have used the word evil. But he decided to hurt as many people as he could in his acting out of god knows what. IMO, that's evil.

[Ken S.]

Psychosis renders ordinary understandings of moral culpability moot. If a person is not apprehending reality accurately then the ability make rational or ethical decisions consistent with that reality are compromised. people are their brains, and if their brains are malfunctioning then there is no internal mechanism to correct it. They basically have no informed volition. If a person really thinks that he's defending himself from demons or aliens, or thinks he's in a video game, or thinks he's fighting in a war, then where is the ability for that to be a comprehending moral choice?

The Texas Tower killer was just a normal guy until he developed a massive brain tumor. He didn't choose to develop a massive brain tumor it just happened. Could happen to anybody.

[Steophan]

Originally Posted by Ken S.

What a crock of shit.

It's not possible in the US, by the way.

Yes, it is. It's not only possible, but necessary, in such a case where holding a fair election would be impossible.

More to the point, if the House, Senate, and President all agree to suspend elections indefinitely, and the armed forces follow the orders of their Commander in Chief, how exactly is democracy going to help you? Now, I doubt this will happen in the forseeable future, but to claim it's impossible is absurd.

[Ken S.]

They do not have the authority to make such an agreement, and the notion is ludicrous, but even if, for the sake of argument, something like that happened, Joe Bob's deer rifle isn't going to help you. If you're facing the full combined forces of the US military, you're a bug on a windshield. They don't even have to use people. They can kill you by remote control. You'd never even have anything to shoot at.

I'd support America, by the way. I'd happily take up arms against the traitors. Most people would be on my side.

[Scuba Ben]

There was discussion in yesterday's paper that the accused shooter was so much of a loner, that when he started ordering his weapons & equipment there was nobody around him to notice.

I think this supports the claim recently made on Slashdot, that the best way to prevent teenage loner boys from causing mayhem (cyber or shooting) is to get them girlfriends.

[hilarity n. suze]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

Hilarity: That was the comment I was referring to. Call me crazy, but if a reporter called me and woke me up to tell me that someone with my son's name had shot up a movie theater, I would not reply with "You have the right person." Maybe the reporter didn't say that to the mom. But she went on to say she had to fly to CO right away, so I doubt the reporter had merely asked her to verify her son's address and general description. I don't think she knew he was eeeeevil. I think she probably knew he was troubled.

Okay, if the phone rang at 5 a.m. and somebody said "There has been a shooting in Seattle, we are trying to confirm if you are the parent of Son of Suze or if you know who we should contact," I would probably say something like, "Yeah, you have the right person." A lot depends on the phrasing of the question, but fucking ABC News had already screwed up by finding what they thought was a hot story, that Jim Holmes was in the Colorado Tea Party (and they had the wrong Jim Holmes), so I have no idea how they phrased the question. Maybe "Are you the parent of a Sack of Shit in Aurora who's attending the University of Colorado, do we have the right person here?"

People are acting like the reporter asked her something like, "Some guy has shot up a theatre in Colorado, do you think that's your son?" Which I highly doubt is how it was phrased.

This was the first she'd heard of the shooting (being asleep and all).

Even if I thought my son was eeeeevil (which I don't) and even if I was half asleep (which I would be at that hour) if somebody called me and said, "A kid who sounds like your son has shot up a bunch of people in Seattle, is that him?" I would say no.

[Colonel Plink]

CAUTION! EXTREME THREAD DRIFT![QUOTE=eleanorigby;828748]
I've been out in CO any number of times. I've lived there. And no offense, I'm sure there's an austere beauty to the eastern half of the state and all, but honestly, driving through it and around in it, it's hard to see where deer would be. You can see for miles: no shrub, no cover. That's all it meant and all I meant by it...[QUOTE]

Meet me in Julesberg and we'll drive to Ft Morgan. You'll see. That's where the trees are.

But Muleys like the wide-open prairie. I've seen herds of up to 50 just east and south of the County Seat. Nary a tree in sight.

[/ETD]

[hilarity n. suze]

That was fast.

TMZ link: http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/24/james-...suit-shooting/

He's hitting the people with deep pockets. He wasn't hurt, but a friend was.

(Sure, he's psychologically scarred, but a lot of other people have it a lot worse. One couple, 23 and 21--he's in a medically induced coma and has at the very least lost his right eye, his wife, unhurt at the massacre, just gave birth to their first child.)

I dunno, I kind of have to question this dude suing Warner Bros. on account of the movie was particularly violent. Yeah, but (a) he knew that and went to see it anyway, and (b) he didn't really get to watch it, did he?

[Amp]

So someone is suing a movie company because they made a violent movie that apparently they enjoy watching so much that they went to a midnight showing. Ummmm...

[Colonel Plink]

Originally Posted by hilarity n. suze

That was fast.

TMZ link: http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/24/james-...suit-shooting/

Christ wept.

[kolga]

Keep in mind that any jackass can file a lawsuit about anything, and it's not even filed yet, so the likelihood of this ending up being anything real is about zero. Obviously, it takes a special brand of fuckwit to 1) come up with the idea for the lawsuit and 2) find an equally fuckwitted attorney to take the case, but nobody ever said that there weren't fuckwits about.

[Tuckerfan]

Speaking of fuckwits. . .

Timothy Courtois of Biddeford, Maine, had been stopped for speeding, and a police search of his car found an AK-47 assault weapon, four handguns, ammunition and news clippings about the mass shooting that left 12 people dead early Friday, authorities said.

In Southern California, a man at a Sunday afternoon showing of the film was arrested after witnesses said he made threats and alluded to the Colorado shooting when the movie didn’t start.

Los Angeles County sheriff’s deputies were called to a cinema complex in Norwalk after moviegoers said 52-year-old Clark Tabor shouted: “I should go off like in Colorado.” They said he then asked: “Does anybody have a gun?”

[ivylass]

Originally Posted by Khampelf

How does an unemployed graduate student afford several firearms, body armor, 6000 rounds of ammunition and explosives to booby trap an apartment. How did he know how?

Apparently, from our tax dollars.

[Mateomasfeo]

The pussification is almost complete....

[Ken S.]

Originally Posted by ivylass

Apparently, from our tax dollars.

He was awarded a federal grant based on merit. So what?

[Half-Man/Half-French]

Originally Posted by Mateomasfeo

The pussification is almost complete....

Thanks for keeping us informed on your tranny process and progresses.
Post some pics.

[BJMoose]

Originally Posted by Ken S.

He was awarded a federal grant based on merit. So what?

Perhaps you have little sense of irony.

The grant provided him $26,000 per year for living expenses. That isn't a heck of a lot, but his apartment building didn't look particularly high-rent to me. So, depending on how one wants to do the accounting, his spree may have been (unintentionally!) financed in part by federal money. But that is just a curiosity. Nothing more.

There are some more details on his academic career. He apparently dropped out last month (after beginning to assemble his arsenal) a few days after a mandatory oral exam. Last semester he was in a class called "Biological Basis of Psychiaric and Neurological Disorders", which adds a bit of substance to the speculation of some of us that he perhaps chose his particular academic path in hopes of being able to figure out why part of his brain was so fucked up.

[Chacoguy]

WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE!?!?

[Mako]

Originally Posted by Chacoguy

WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE!?!?

Nothing at all. They're acting out in exactly the way that people do when they're anonymous and there's no consequences.

[Amp]

Originally Posted by Mako

Nothing at all. They're acting out in exactly the way that people do when they're anonymous and there's no consequences.

That would be John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory.