June 30, nationwide child kidnapping protests

[stormie]

Here is one place where many local protests are listed, as well as the big Washington DC protest: http://act.moveon.org/event/families-belong-together. If there is nothing nearby it's not too late to start something up, if you have that kind of chutzpah.

Captain Obvious says it's not about race, political party, or immigration stance. It's about evil. Come one, come all.

For you handypersons and crafty types, keep your sign text short and clear. Suggestions - "Where is My Child" "My Son was Taken" - keep it bipartisan, folks. Bible quotes OK

If your representatives have not repudiated child kidnapping, call them, email them, write them.
Find your Senators and Congresspersons

[wring]

Yeah, I thought we had federal laws against kidnapping. I guess not.

[Sunny Daze]

Thanks for the link. I leveraged the power of my incredibly huge social media network. (Well, I tried anyway).

I was excited to see that there's an event in my town. I'm taking the kids and going! Civic action here we go.

[stormie]

Another action is to contact Fox, stating that you object as a long time viewer, and that you are in the process of contacting their sponsors.
comments@foxnewsinsider.com

[Ludovic]

I'm thinking of going, this would be only my second rally/protest/whateveryouwanttocallit: I gathered in downtown Orlando 10 or so years ago to rally against the SSM-prohibiting amendment 2 (I remember it is 2 and not California's Prop 8 because we couldn't use the catchy slogan "straight against 8".)

The only reasons I might not attend are parking and fear that they will use the one or two overused and annoying protest shouting cadences. If anyone says "hey hey, ho ho" I will just turn around and leave.

[C2H5OH]

Originally Posted by Ludovic

If anyone says "hey hey, ho ho" I will just turn around and leave.

While shouting "Ludovic has got to go!"???

[Monstera deliciosa]

Thanks for the link stormie. My husband and I signed up for a protest near us.

[Ludovic]

I wonder if these will be cancelled now that there supposedly is an agreement to end this. Because even if there is an "agreement" we all know how much the administrations agreements are worth.

[JackieLikesVariety]

Originally Posted by Ludovic

I wonder if these will be cancelled now that there supposedly is an agreement to end this. Because even if there is an "agreement" we all know how much the administrations agreements are worth.

it's already served it's purpose: really revved up the racist base and wore out all the decent people just when they are about to steal our Social Security and Medicare.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Originally Posted by Ludovic

I wonder if these will be cancelled now that there supposedly is an agreement to end this. Because even if there is an "agreement" we all know how much the administrations agreements are worth.

Just to be clear, the Executive Order signed on Wednesday provides for families to be detained together, but doesn't mention anything about [edited to add: obeying] the Flores v. Reno settlement that requires that children be detained no longer than 20 days. It looks like Trump is trying to set up a situation to challenge Flores and make a case of detention of families for however long it takes for a case to be adjudicated (average wait for adjudication of an immigration case is somewhere in the neighborhood of 400 days.)

Originally Posted by Executive Order

It is also the policy of this Administration to maintain family unity, including by detaining alien families together where appropriate and consistent with law and available resources.

Originally Posted by Executive Order

(e) The Attorney General shall promptly file a request with the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California to modify the Settlement Agreement in Flores v. Sessions, CV 85-4544 (“Flores settlement”), in a manner that would permit the Secretary, under present resource constraints, to detain alien families together throughout the pendency of criminal proceedings for improper entry or any removal or other immigration proceedings.

This turns the principle of innocent until proven guilty on its head - refugees are treated as if they're lying about being refugees and imprisoned until an immigration court decides whether they're lying or not. If the problem were too many people not showing up for court, a better solution would be GPS tracking rather than imprisonment. The problem, in this case, is rather that Trump and Sessions want to hurt immigrants. That's plenty worth protesting, and I'm still planning on going June 30.

[C2H5OH]

Originally Posted by Flying Squid with Goggles

The problem, in this case, is rather that Trump and Sessions want to hurt immigrants.

No, it's not that they want to hurt immigrants, per se*, they don't give a shit about them one way or the other. It's that they want to "look tough on immigration" to play to all the people who voted for His Orangeness on the issue. This isn't a carefully thought-out policy designed to achieve an end like 'hurting immigrants so they stop wanting to come here', it's a no-thought-brain-fart intended entirely for show to appeal to the unthinking masses of Trumpkins. The actual immigrants are just props for the stage-show.

The problems with the policy are precisely because it wasn't 'thought out', but rather just cooked up on a whim and immediately enacted without any regard to the logistics of implementing it, leaving the people charged with enacting the policy to 'improvise something with inadequate resources or planning time'. Same sort of last-minute clusterfuck as the original "Muslim Ban".

* Well, maybe Sessions does, I don't know, but Trump just doesn't give a shit.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Originally Posted by C2H5OH

No, it's not that they want to hurt immigrants, per se*, they don't give a shit about them one way or the other.

Nobody spends that much time and energy trying to hurt people they don't give a shit about. It sounds cool when Howard Roark tells Ellsworth Toohey "I don't think of you at all" but the notebooks full of plans for whippings and recipes using tears belie that statement.

Originally Posted by C2H5OH

It's that they want to "look tough on immigration" to play to all the people who voted for His Orangeness on the issue. This isn't a carefully thought-out policy designed to achieve an end like 'hurting immigrants so they stop wanting to come here', it's a no-thought-brain-fart intended entirely for show to appeal to the unthinking masses of Trumpkins. The actual immigrants are just props for the stage-show.

Now this I agree with wholeheartedly - I don't think our opinions on far apart on this, I just think Trump is not actually Machiavellian on this issue and actually cares about it in a foolish and destructive way. He certainly doesn't care about these people's welfare. He cares about it because he believes they are an "infestation" - his own words.

[C2H5OH]

Originally Posted by Flying Squid with Goggles

Nobody spends that much time and energy trying to hurt people they don't give a shit about. It sounds cool when Howard Roark tells Ellsworth Toohey "I don't think of you at all" but the notebooks full of plans for whippings and recipes using tears belie that statement.

You seem to have missed what I meant. I meant that he doesn't give a shit one way or another about their suffering. He didn't spend any time or effort 'trying to hurt' them. He just pulled a policy out of his ass, without any thought at all to any consequences it might have on the immigrants. They're not 'people' to him, they're just props in a show he's putting on for his supporters. If some policy he pulls out of his ass to throw to his supporters actually helped immigrants, he wouldn't reject it on those grounds, as long as his supporters liked it. He doesn't care whether it hurts or helps them. All he cares about is if the policy enables him to tell his supporters "See? I did what I said I would" and they'll swallow it.

He's not actively trying to make them suffer. He's utterly incapable of understanding that they can experience suffering, so their suffering doesn't enter into his calculations at all. Only how it plays to his supporters is important to him.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

Originally Posted by C2H5OH

He's not actively trying to make them suffer. He's utterly incapable of understanding that they can experience suffering, so their suffering doesn't enter into his calculations at all. Only how it plays to his supporters is important to him.

I see what you mean - I'm not sure I share your assessment, but I think it is a distinct possibility. Thanks for elaborating a bit on it, though!

[Ganryu Kojiro]

The way I've heard it, they've been discussing this idea for a while (like, months) and intended it as a deterrent. So, yeah, they were thinking of ways to hurt people. Now, the general incompetence of the administration means that they didn't think through the logistics of it, and likely misjudged public perception.

I say likely because it's distinctly possible that the goal was to gin up tribal conflict. Support for one's own party hardens during big controversies, so it's actually a solid strategy in some times and places (albeit an awful way to govern).

[stormie]

Events are still on https://act.moveon.org/event/families-belong-together The problem is still the problem. Do something.

I hate crowds, shouting, media, standing around . . . Everyone should have their own reason. Mine is that I look conservative.


Monstra I haven't seen you in forever!

[Monstera deliciosa]

Originally Posted by stormie

Events are still on https://act.moveon.org/event/families-belong-together The problem is still the problem. Do something.

I hate crowds, shouting, media, standing around . . . Everyone should have their own reason. Mine is that I look conservative.


Monstra I haven't seen you in forever!

I am pretty much always here. I just seldom feel like I have something to contribute. I should probably just dive in anyway.

[stormie]

Only if you feel like it. We want are Monsteras happy

[Ludovic]

Originally Posted by stormie

I hate crowds, shouting, media, standing around . . . Everyone should have their own reason. Mine is that I look conservative.

I have all these reasons as well, plus the Florida heat (actually I don't mind standing around if not for the heat).

On the other hand, what really changes peoples' minds sometimes is hearing something unexpected from someone. For instance, from some time in the 90s until about 3 years before Black Lives Matter, I had it in my mind that while police discrimination, abuse, and Driving While Black was definitely a thing, I didn't think about it too much and thought it was rarer than it is. Then, I had a black co-worker who was a hardline conservative about almost everything, but this is real life and not politics or a talking head show, so everyone has their quirks. He was so conservative that he even took the conservative line against "thug culture" even though it is a racist dog whistle, and he said that he thought he got stopped by the cops more because he was black. That increased my awareness of police discrimination more than all the BLM protests did.

(He also thought global warming was a scam, Vince Foster was murdered, religion was a scam ... wait, WHAT? That was his other difference with conservatives. He was also a Palin fan and it was interesting seeing him discuss her with the other office conservative who considered himself an environmentalist (and rationalized hating Obama by blaming him for the BP oil spill), who was opposed to her and her "drill baby drill" mantra which was in turn his deviation from hardcore conservatism.)

[Monstera deliciosa]

Well, we went. Our local protest was outside Representative Peter Roskam's (R-IL) Barrington office. 375 people signed up, and I think most came. We were in front of the office building, on the side, and across the street. Lots of people passing in cars honked, waved, and gave the thumbs up. The cynical side of me still thinks the world is going to hell at breakneck speed, but it was heartening to see people who still care about others, and the country, and join with them for an hour.

IMG_20180630_130115515 by smartnstunning, on Flickr

I was even willing to wear all white, as we were asked, in public. For a thick girl, that's commitment.

[C2H5OH]

Originally Posted by Monstera deliciosa

by smartnstunning, on Flickr

I really like your bonsai. About 15 years ago, I tried to grow one. Several attempts. They all kept dying on me. The longest lasting one (a Jack Pine I grew from seed) only made it five years before it croaked. I'd only barely started shaping it.

[Monstera deliciosa]

Originally Posted by C2H5OH

I really like your bonsai. About 15 years ago, I tried to grow one. Several attempts. They all kept dying on me. The longest lasting one (a Jack Pine I grew from seed) only made it five years before it croaked. I'd only barely started shaping it.

Thanks you. Those are old pictures, and the plants are still going strong. They are not true bonsai; no root pruning or wiring involved. Jade plants do take well to shaping, though--which gives the look.

[Ludovic]

I did drive by the local one and there were hundreds of people there and nowhere to park, and this when it had just stopped downpouring in a deep red district.

[Inner Stickler]

I went to the rally in Minneapolis today. There were a lot of us and it felt pretty good to be doing something.

[stormie]

It went pretty well nationwide! Yay us!

(not that I have much hope anyway . . .)