Judge Tosses Out Utah's Anti-Gay Marriage Bill

[Dirty Old Uncle Roger]

Originally Posted by Paul in Qatar

Yeah, no doubt about it, Civil Rights would not have happened without some serious pushing. This is the historical example that destroys the Libertarian worldview on this sort of thing.

Still, I would rather convince people than dictate to them.

So would I. Unless they are presently shitting on people.

Also,

"Can't you wait just one more generation for equal rights?"

[BrickaBracka]

Originally Posted by Dirty Old Uncle Roger

"Can't you wait just one more generation for equal rights?"

I think history bears out that nothing worth having was ever gained instantly. Time is often needed for truly positive change to be integrated into society.

Push it too fast, and the opponents make bigger and louder squawk noises and generally froth and foam at the mouth. This draws some ridiculous attention, makes the issue heated, and pushes off any meaningful change while the crazies lob their missiles.

[Dirty Old Uncle Roger]

Originally Posted by BrickaBracka

I think history bears out that nothing worth having was ever gained instantly. Time is often needed for truly positive change to be integrated into society.

Push it too fast, and the opponents make bigger and louder squawk noises and generally froth and foam at the mouth. This draws some ridiculous attention, makes the issue heated, and pushes off any meaningful change while the crazies lob their missiles.

I think history bears out that MLK was asked that very question while he was in the Birmingham jail. His response was something along the lines of finding it very unreasonable to wait a generation for something that's already his, and which is unlawfully being withheld from him.

[BrickaBracka]

Originally Posted by Dirty Old Uncle Roger

I think history bears out that MLK was asked that very question while he was in the Birmingham jail. His response was something along the lines of finding it very unreasonable to wait a generation for something that's already his, and which is unlawfully being withheld from him.

Yeah but that guy got shot...by one of his squawking opponents.

Point is, it will take time, a lot of time, by any measure. Be it 100 years, 200 years, or 50 years before it's a non-issue. When was DADT "officially unofficially" instituted in the military? Use that as a starting point for the timeline. We're at the, I dunno, 50 year point? 75 year point? I have no brains of that particular issue's inception. We're well and truly beyond 1 generation here. This is the next slavery-type civil rights issue. That was what, 400 years of slavery followed by some 100 years of quasi-citizenship until Jim Crow was abolished, followed by another 40 or 50 years of bogus racial prejudice, and here we are today - only the truly repugnant chimps are still actual racists. So 550 years give or take. (timeline specifically restricted to black slavery in america obviously)

We're moving towards an end goal, and I trust our society will be there before the turn of the next century, but I don't expect to see it before the end of my lifetime. Unless....you're only referring to America. Probably gonna come faster here. The law banning being gay in Uganda? Not likely to have unreasonable bias and hatred disappear there any time soon.

[Dirty Old Uncle Roger]

Originally Posted by BrickaBracka

Yeah but that guy got shot...by one of his squawking opponents.

Point is, it will take time, a lot of time, by any measure. Be it 100 years, 200 years, or 50 years before it's a non-issue. When was DADT "officially unofficially" instituted in the military? Use that as a starting point for the timeline. We're at the, I dunno, 50 year point? 75 year point?

Bill Clinton. So not quite 50 years.

[BrickaBracka]

Originally Posted by Dirty Old Uncle Roger

Bill Clinton. So not quite 50 years.

I didn't know that was a recent thing...for some reason I had it stuck in my head that it came from the 60's...

[Dirty Old Uncle Roger]

Originally Posted by BrickaBracka

I didn't know that was a recent thing...for some reason I had it stuck in my head that it came from the 60's...

Beginning of the country - Clinton ---> homosexuality is a crime under the UCMJ, to be treated like any other crime.

Clinton - Obama ---> Homosexuality means a discharge from service if it comes to light, but nobody is expected to pursue rumors or hints of homosexuality on the part of a servicemember.

Today ---> Homosexuality is not a concern for military discipline of any kind.

[pickle berry]

Originally Posted by Dirty Old Uncle Roger

"Can't you wait just one more generation for equal rights?"

No fucking kidding. Damn kids these days want everything now now now. Bunch of brats.