Yeetmas 4 - Day 1 - Let's "Wrap" together, OK?

[Halfrize]

I hate trying to use image links on my phone because it is so much harder for some reason. I really should make an account on that other website instead of uploading everything to another forum and copying that

[Halfrize]

Originally Posted by Renata

Halfrize, you're cool by me.

I guess it might be a culture thing, but typically when I play, it is better to directly talk to the host and I just feel like I accidentally did something I wasn’t supposed to by not reading good enough and asking in the thread.

So I am worried with that I messed up the game.

I also think I shoulda better handled some of what happened in the thread instead of ignoring it. I am a guest and shouldn’t let my hosts fight like that, and so I feel that I am partially at fault for that as well

[raventhief]

You're being a fine guest!

[A Poor Shepherd Boy]

Why don't we all start over, emotion-wise. This is a game within a community and personally I love the players here. Sounds hokey, but this online Mafia game has been important to me, especially over the last couple of years, and I want new folks to enjoy it. We really are a good bunch and this game can sometimes reach into uncomfortable parts of the psyche. It's the nature of the beast.

I hope you stay pizza.

[Halfrize]

Originally Posted by raventhief

You're being a fine guest!

*hugs*🤗🫂

[raventhief]

Originally Posted by A Poor Shepherd Boy

Why don't we all start over, emotion-wise. This is a game within a community and personally I love the players here. Sounds hokey, but this online Mafia game has been important to me, especially over the last couple of years, and I want new folks to enjoy it. We really are a good bunch and this game can sometimes reach into uncomfortable parts of the psyche. It's the nature of the beast.

I hope you stay pizza.

Cosigned, plus one, all of it. We really are friendly and non toxic as a general rule, and I feel terrible that pizza wants to leave.

[Pleonast]

I guess I'm tone deaf or otherwise inured to any toxicity here. I apologize if anyone feels like I've crossed any lines; it was not mine intention at all. I really appreciate the little community we have here. I'm not really interested in playing mafia elsewhere.

[guiri]

Originally Posted by raventhief

Cosigned, plus one, all of it. We really are friendly and non toxic as a general rule, and I feel terrible that pizza wants to leave.

+2 after all it’s Xmas

[Mahaloth]

I want to continue the game as I worked on it and I legitimately look forward to my Holiday Game every year.

I think we need to:

- cool it with the tone of our "voices'
- be welcoming to our guests, who we hope will become our new regular players
- withhold insults or being overly critical about how others are playing

[Dizzymrslizzy]

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

I got other stuff to do, let me know if you need a towncase on any navy name.

You will have to @ me in order to make it happen. I did more than enough.

How about you flip your Orange on me to blue where I belong sweetypie.

You know I don't follow your "rules"

Just because we disagree on Guiri doesn't make me an Elf of Mariah. FWIW, I don't know if you are Scum either. You may be loud and proud, but you are loud and proud regardless.

I'm just super curious of what other Town role you may be.....I think it's more likely you are a scummy scum scum......

Honestly the fact that you are picking me apart with the other new "M" guy (sorry I don't know your name! LOL). when you know I don't follow your rules, nor do I ever step down when I think I'm right . It does make me go Hmmms.

[A Poor Shepherd Boy]

+ Tired easy "Scum wouldn't do that" critique instead of considering the actual game.

+ Probably wrong about pizza with earlier pile-on vote.

+ Wrong about me. Uses "meta" that I am playing too safe. Pot meet kettle.

[Dizzymrslizzy]

Originally Posted by raventhief

Cosigned, plus one, all of it. We really are friendly and non toxic as a general rule, and I feel terrible that pizza wants to leave.

I'm here too. I don't understand the toxicity......It's a game. We all play the way we see fit, and that's A'OK. I'll be totally honest, I'm not 100% sure what happened, but I see Pizza is upset and that upsets me a lot.

I vote for a reset of emotions as well.

[Dizzymrslizzy]

Quiet Texcat is a scummy Texcat.
Sad but true

[raventhief]

Originally Posted by Dizzymrslizzy

Quiet Texcat is a scummy Texcat.
Sad but true

I've seen quiet TexCat as a townCat before.

[Pleonast]

Originally Posted by A Poor Shepherd Boy

Uses "meta" that I am playing too safe.

I'm not sure what's "meta" about an observation of a player's posts in the current game.

[Mendie Taoma]

Originally Posted by Mahaloth

I want to continue the game as I worked on it and I legitimately look forward to my Holiday Game every year.

I think we need to:

- cool it with the tone of our "voices'
- be welcoming to our guests, who we hope will become our new regular players
- withhold insults or being overly critical about how others are playing

What did I miss?

[Mendie Taoma]

OOG

I came out as Transgender to my Mom yesterday.

Well. There was nothing negative that came of it. There was also, virtually nothing positive, either. No immediate reaction, at all. Close to nothing at all. Closer to a flat-line, ok. As if it was the non important half of a random factoid I had just brought up. Admittedly, she was mostly "I'm not sure what to do with this information." And to be fair, I remain that way, myself. And I'm the one who came out. FWIW, I think she understands the rationale and per se "Theory" as to why I came out now, as I did. That I need to have the freedom to explore and fully question who I am, and who I want to become, even if that includes the atypical, and non-normative. That I can be free to do the things I want to do, and not have these questions then.

But other than that, Mrs.Lincoln, how was the play?

Well, there was an interesting bonus round.

Tonight we had Chinese food. My fortune read as follows :

A surprise announcement will free you.

[A Poor Shepherd Boy]

Originally Posted by Pleonast

Sorting

Willing to vote for these, from most to least.
Askthepizzaguy: claimed scum.
guiri: too much twisting about; very skilled.
A Poor Shepherd Boy: playing too safely.
LightFoot: only posting on scum board.

Unwilling to vote for these, from most to least.
Kaiveran: uncountered claim.
Swammerdami: please post more. I need your help.
Mendie Taoma: playing from the gut.
Red Skeezix: argumentative in townie way.
Bashorian Clement: feels like townie.
Burma Shave: cute.
raventhief: definitely playing.
Halfrize: nothing incriminating.
JackieLikesVariety: not participating, but with Day One Newbie armor. Start giving us thoughts, something, anything.
TexCat: not participating.
gnarlycharlie: not participating.
Renata: good participation, but I'm not getting any read, which concerns me.
Dizzymrslizzy: too cool and non-committal.
mikomiya: plenty of posts and hints of the future, but little about who or not to execute.


but willing to switch to anyone on my vote list.

Sorry if that was not your intention, but that's how I read it as you didn't explain further.

Why are you willing to vote for Lightfoot for not participating but not, say, gnarlycharlie if not meta?

I am using meta and this read list is the easiest such list I ever remember seeing you post in all our years playing together. This is what I mean by playing it safe. You talk about everyone without actually saying anything. Even the heading of "sorting" is weird.

[Mahaloth]

Originally Posted by Mendie Taoma

OOG

I came out as Transgender to my Mom yesterday.




But other than that, Mrs.Lincoln, how was the play?

Well, there was an interesting bonus round.

Tonight we had Chinese food. My fortune read as follows :

Thank you for sharing. Is Mendie the main name now, or is Meeko still allowed? Hey, a non-reaction is probably one of the better ways to respond, all things considering.

[Mahaloth]

Originally Posted by Vote Counting Robot

Askthepizzaguy (5): Halfrize (24)[168], guiri (74)[543], Red Skeezix (124), Mendie Taoma (127), Swammerdami (140), Pleonast (298)[434], TexCat (443), Askthepizzaguy (518)
A Poor Shepherd Boy (2): JackieLikesVariety (426), Pleonast (434)
Texcat (1): Dizzymrslizzy (563)
Pleonast (1): Renata (146)[274], A Poor Shepherd Boy (561)
Apoorshepherdboy (1): Renata (548)
Dizzymrslizzy (1): Halfrize (224)[315], mikomiya (341), Halfrize (355)[537]
Red Skeezix (1): Bashorian Clement (30), A Poor Shepherd Boy (108)[122]
Mahaloth (0): Mahaloth (15)[15]
Kaiveran (0): Mendie Taoma (4)[33]
Guiri (0): Bashorian Clement (7)[30], Askthepizzaguy (97)[517], A Poor Shepherd Boy (122)[554], Renata (274)[548], Halfrize (318)[355]
Jackielikesvariety (0): Burma Shave (81)[246]

Still pizza at this point, about 23 hours left.

[Dizzymrslizzy]

Originally Posted by Mendie Taoma

OOG

I came out as Transgender to my Mom yesterday.




But other than that, Mrs.Lincoln, how was the play?

Well, there was an interesting bonus round.

Tonight we had Chinese food. My fortune read as follows :

OOG Love you Mendie. It's a lot for a parent to hear, and takes some time to process, but It sounds like your parents are processing, which is a good thing.

[Pleonast]

Originally Posted by A Poor Shepherd Boy

Sorry if that was not your intention, but that's how I read it as you didn't explain further.

If you're using meta, you know that I don't, so it's not a good explanation of anything I do. Of course, it's all wine anyway.

I don't have any comments on your assessment of me.

[Pleonast]

Originally Posted by Mendie Taoma

OOG

Best wishes!

[LightFoot]

The first thing I wanted to type would not help the situation so I said it out loud to get it off my chest.

The offenders and the offended have good reason to take a step back- But leaving the game defeats the spirit of our holiday game.

It appears we have a cop a doc and a vig claim.
welcome to D1

of course now I have to re-read the "leash the Vig" discussions and the PR suggestions in general.
Unfortunately I think alot of that is buried in pizza sauce* so any assistance is welcome.




*not intended as a slur

[Dizzymrslizzy]

Originally Posted by LightFoot

The first thing I wanted to type would not help the situation so I said it out loud to get it off my chest.

The offenders and the offended have good reason to take a step back- But leaving the game defeats the spirit of our holiday game.

It appears we have a cop a doc and a vig claim.
welcome to D1

of course now I have to re-read the "leash the Vig" discussions and the PR suggestions in general.
Unfortunately I think alot of that is buried in pizza sauce* so any assistance is welcome.




*not intended as a slur

I haven't even been able to keep track of who claimed what at this point. I don't have the bandwidth with work to go back and re-read 500 posts. I'd love the abridged version also.

I saw Kai claimed something? Cop?
Pizza claimed Town Power
Pleo Claimed Not Cop, Not Vig.

[raventhief]

Originally Posted by Mendie Taoma

OOG

I came out as Transgender to my Mom yesterday.




But other than that, Mrs.Lincoln, how was the play?

Well, there was an interesting bonus round.

Tonight we had Chinese food. My fortune read as follows :

Mendie

[raventhief]

@JackieLikesVariety

We really are nice.

[Renata]

Originally Posted by Mahaloth

Still pizza at this point, about 23 hours left.

I'll get a vote right one of these days.

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by Dizzymrslizzy

I haven't even been able to keep track of who claimed what at this point. I don't have the bandwidth with work to go back and re-read 500 posts. I'd love the abridged version also.

I saw Kai claimed something? Cop?
Pizza claimed Town Power
Pleo Claimed Not Cop, Not Vig.

Originally Posted by guiri

~
I apologise if I’ve contributed to your discomfort in this game. I’m the town doc and have probably been playing to protect my role more than to advance my wincon (and I suspect Dizzy has copped on to that) and if you really are a PR, you’re the vig and have been doing the same, leading us to pinging each other’s scumdar.

~.

andd this

[LightFoot]

I didn't see the .case. on Guiri
Pizza has votes for too much pineapple and too many anchovies- it seems
APSBoy is gaining ground - for reasons I wi now research.

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by JackieLikesVariety

this sounds right to me: I expected Scum to not want to be noticed and that's exactly what you have done, after initially being so helpful (thank you!). so I am voting on the theory that people will tell you who they are and you seem to not want to be noticed.

vote A Poor Shepherd Boy

ETA: I also think Pizza is scum but don't have an opinion about anyone else. Interesting to see how things progress.

Originally Posted by Pleonast

Let's keep things interesting.

Interesting seems to be the operative word here

[raventhief]

Originally Posted by LightFoot

Interesting seems to be the operative word here

How... Interesting.

[Burma Shave]

Update on suggested actions

Protect: Kaiveran
Cop check: Mendi Taoma Renata
Vig: Bashorian Clement gnarlycharlie
Wrap: ATPG? guiri? TexCat, A Poor Shepherd Boy, Swammerdami

Bad idea to wrap any player who has claimed, even though I don't fully trust any of those claims. Some more than others.

[Burma Shave]

OOG/

I wish I were rich

I'd be Little BoPeep


and buy my herding dog


Some sheep

[Dizzymrslizzy]

Originally Posted by LightFoot

andd this

Haha I didn’t even see this post! Thanks for the quote LF! Boo ya, although I’m sad Guiri had to claim D1

[Mendie Taoma]

Originally Posted by Mahaloth

Thank you for sharing. Is Mendie the main name now, or is Meeko still allowed? Hey, a non-reaction is probably one of the better ways to respond, all things considering.

Right off the bat, I am still keeping both accounts. And with that, both names, and differing pronouns. Perhaps this is the wrong way to look at it, but I came out, just to my Mom, [And you all, and a small handful of IRL friends. I'm out on a few discord servers, but those servers are Trans and or Furry servers, so, in a certain sense, I don't really consider it being "out" there, as, a vast majority of us, are there for those and similar reasons.]

Yeah. So, I mean, obviously, for this game, and other games "Mendie" is in, obviously use / tag / mention that name.

But, as there is a precedence for even other players to still be called by original names, outside of the above, to use the OG name, then, when it is required there, Meeko can still work.

----

As far as OOG / IRL goes, It's less simple.

Suffice to say that Mendie [complete with that spelling] has been my name from like 2011 (Yes. It's taken me a while. But, I came to that name, probably in 2010, but I can point to definite dated information with Feb 2011 on it, in relation to "" Mendie Raccoon "" being a name.

I'm attached to it, to say the least. As far as I can comprehend the term, my experiences with the name, then, now, always, provides euphoria for me, when I have the two seconds to think of the name in and of itself.

Not sure if I shared this yet, but, consider that the name is a pun, once separated right in half.

Ideally, in theory, I want to ask for, and be called Mendie IRL. I want to use She / Her. There are many things that I want to do here, that I know, will be met with varying levels of success.

The problem is, I know that no plan survives first contact with the enemy.

I'm currently looking at the few things that are the hat trick of things that are [relatively] safe, things I want to do, things I can do.

[LightFoot]

Originally Posted by Burma Shave

Update on suggested actions

Protect: Kaiveran
Cop check: Mendi Taoma Renata
Vig: Bashorian Clement gnarlycharlie
Wrap: ATPG? guiri? TexCat, A Poor Shepherd Boy, Swammerdami

Bad idea to wrap any player who has claimed, even though I don't fully trust any of those claims. Some more than others.

Are you willing to elaborate on your wrap choices?
or any of them?

[raventhief]

Originally Posted by Burma Shave

OOG/

I wish I were rich

I'd be Little BoPeep


and buy my herding dog


Some sheep

Please get some sheep for my border collie too. He thinks that's a lovely holiday gift..

[Kaiveran]

Yikes. Apologies for my prolonged absence.

So it looks like I'll only have tonight to really play this game. So be it.

Might take a while, I might have to space things out to eat and avoid burnout.

In the meantime, here's another ditty I feel is rather mood and season appropriate (s/o @A Poor Shepherd Boy).

[Halfrize]

its been like 45 min. and ive seen you do literally nothing all game.

[Red Skeezix]

[oog] If someone percieves my tone or play as toxic. I humbly apologize, it's not my intention. If you let me know privately or publicly (I don't care which) I will make a more direct apology and eat the crow. I really really wouldn't want to make any one uncomfortable or feel unwelcome. Sometimes i can come across too confrontational, and i promise its not intentional. [/oog]


I see a partial claim from pizza. looks like they claimed "Town Blank" and then departed and came back voted themself and departed again.

guiri - why did you fill in the blank there?

I'm fine with letting a vig claim remain unwrapped, if it's fake it won't stand for very long. But I don't see an actual claim, am I missing some hidden message?

Originally Posted by A Poor Shepherd Boy

(vote snip)

+ Tired easy "Scum wouldn't do that" critique instead of considering the actual game.

+ Probably wrong about pizza with earlier pile-on vote.

+ Wrong about me. Uses "meta" that I am playing too safe. Pot meet kettle.

2/3 of your case is because you think they are wrong about who they think is scum. That's not actually indicative of anything. This vote appears to be constructed backwards - like you are looking for reasons to vote for them because they were already suspicious/voting of you. This is very suspicious.

[A Poor Shepherd Boy]

Originally Posted by Red Skeezix

[oog] If someone percieves my tone or play as toxic. I humbly apologize, it's not my intention. If you let me know privately or publicly (I don't care which) I will make a more direct apology and eat the crow. I really really wouldn't want to make any one uncomfortable or feel unwelcome. Sometimes i can come across too confrontational, and i promise its not intentional. [/oog]


I see a partial claim from pizza. looks like they claimed "Town Blank" and then departed and came back voted themself and departed again.

guiri - why did you fill in the blank there?

I'm fine with letting a vig claim remain unwrapped, if it's fake it won't stand for very long. But I don't see an actual claim, am I missing some hidden message?

2/3 of your case is because you think they are wrong about who they think is scum. That's not actually indicative of anything. This vote appears to be constructed backwards - like you are looking for reasons to vote for them because they were already suspicious/voting of you. This is very suspicious.

When someone is wrong about you in Mafia there are two explanations. They are either wrong for innocent reasons, which happens much the time in this silly game. Or they are are wrong for nefarious reasons, which happens every time with Scum in mafia. I cannot tell for sure that Pleonast is wrong for nefarious reasons, but it is a place to start looking when other avenues hit blind alleys, as has happened late in this difficult Day.

I was wrong about guiri it seems, and I think I was wrong about you. I think I was right about pizza. I think I am probably right about raventhief being Town. And Halfrize being Town (the misguided Kaiveran vote).

Because he voted for me and we have a history, I did go looking for reasons Pleonast might be Scum. And I found them. I was unfocused sometimes skimming and not involved in a lot of Day 1 and most of that is on me. But I never played easy. When I look back at Pleonast's "case" against me there was of course nothing there, as was there nothing in the rest of that analysis post which I used as an example. Please go back and review his other posts or his claims from the previous two iterations of this game. And if you must vote for me and I die then at least make me a deal. If I flip Santa I get your vote Day 2 in absentia and you will use it on Pleonast if he still lives. Deal? Seems a fair trade. Nothing to lose if I am Scum and fair reparations should it be revealed I am not.

If I go down toDay it is no big loss to Town, but I do hope pizza comes back and vigs. I think he is much closer to being right on his analysis than wrong.

[Kaiveran]

POSTING!

Yeah, so this is gonna be in irregularly-sized pieces as I'll basically cut things off whenever I'm afraid of it getting cut off and/or forgetting what I wanted to say.

Also be warned that A LOT of this might be rather anachronistic and/or redundant until the last few posts, because I am cognizant of only the merest shred of the current gamestate. Please be patient.

Also, here are some weird things I say. If I say other weird things not listed here that you don't understand, feel free to ask me about them.

--------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by A Poor Shepherd Boy

As a newbie we are less likely to kill you off on Day1. Take advantage of the Newbie aura whatever your alignment! That aura will not last long so enjoy. Play. Post. Whether you are Town or Scum is irrelevant. It is just more fun to play and you can learn from other players' reactions to your posts and we can try and judge you from your commentary.

Originally Posted by A Poor Shepherd Boy

(snipped: for newbies, click the blue arrow thing at the top of this quote to read the original post in full.)

Super early but I get good gut vibes from these posts here. Looks like genuine attempts to be helpful to town and get the new peeps oriented rather than just whipping out some boilerplate for easy town points. Of course, scum can also pull this off convincingly if they're on the ball from the beginning...etc. etc. that's why I said "gut vibes". It's the first page and I gotta start somewhere. Don't be that kid in class (or do, I can't tell you your business.)

Originally Posted by Swammerdami

I'm GUESSING that the Elves know who the other Elves are but don't know the Careys. Vice versally, the Careys know the Careys but not the Elves.

Is that right, Mahaloth?

Is that it? I'm cooked? Spoilers, please!

You wanna know what's really funny?

In my abortive first attempt to read and/or wall-post at this game, I thought the votes cited here were like, actual-factual votes, just obscured for comedy. And I had picked from multiple pages too, so I spent what little time I had looking all over creation for those mysterious Swammi voters. Alas, they did not exist.

Anywhy...this is just Swammi being his own wonderful weird self, as far as I can glean. FTR, I would have found a pile on for this reason alone mildly suspicious.

Originally Posted by Pleonast

Mine was in the in box, but it looks legit.

I am not the Cop. The Cop should claim by the end of Day Two at the latest, if the Doc is still alive. Even waiting that long has risks, since it means the Cop could be Night-One-killed by chance. There are no role blockers in this game.

I am also not the Vig. The Vig should only kill someone who is assuredly scum, either as revealed by the Cop or if Town wraps the wrong half of a pair of conflicting claims. Do not take the chance of killing the Cop. It has happened before; don't be the one who does it again. Please consider that Night-killing teammates is the antithesis of team play.

Yeah, yeah, you don't want to be told how to play. But these rules make some actions very helpful and others very harmful. Play the game we're in.

Advise: softclaim-y stuff in or near the opening post like this is null for Pleo, i.e they do this as either alignment, meow.

The only thing that might give me pause here is the latter half of the Vidge theorizing. I might be biased since, y'know, I am the Cop and hard-claimed right away as soon as I established there were no RBs or Strongmen or anything else that might prevent me from getting at least one result from behind protect, but from Pleo's perspective it looks like they already pathed that line through what with the "waiting till Day 2 is risky" so I'm not sure how "Vigi killing Cop" is such a salient, specific concern here. Was this an intentional bamboozle so that I would come out with it right away and reduce the number of PRs they have to hunt to two?

...I'm not sure.

Originally Posted by Pleonast

Plurality vote in this game, and almost always in others.

This is an important bit of information. If a Scum player is alive at the end of the game, they've won. Staying alive is their goal. A Town player can be alive at the end of the game and still lose. It's useful for Town to stay alive, but it's not their goal. Thus, Scum players tend to try harder to stay alive than Town.

Again, not bad, but I don't feel the adversarial tone against Shepherd is warranted. Of course, this is MafiaWolf and things are gonna get heated, and he's technically spreading misinformation here, albeit a very very minor form of it. Not sure who this reflects on better or worse.

Originally Posted by Red Skeezix

Got my PM. Just read the rules. so there's that.

(snipped)

I consider this to be poor advice. It's not anti-team to uncover information in the game. It's pro-scum to keep information unverifiable. The vig is better at generating reliable and actionable information than the cop. Think about it, all info that the vig reveals is revealed to all, and is without question. In this game: If a vig hits scum, then great; if a vig hits town then we know that person was town and we get an extra wrap for the next day. The opportunity for more wraps is better, as I see it since it will eliminate the need to play the counter claim game, just wrap 'em both. We become an unbeatable townie when we have an overabundance of information. I'm not saying the vig should fire completely indiscriminately, but I would rather the vig use their ability to play the game strategically and generate actionable information within the game when opportunity arises, rather than as some would suggest only focus on killing scum.

From what I've read ahead, this post seems to be a bit controversial (to Pleo, at the very least). So I just wanna say, despite how reckless and gung-ho this might read at first blush, this is a very valid and long-standing approach on how the Vigilante should use their role. It's a very active go-getter approach, using the threat of a Vigi kill as a "Sword of Damocles" to get people to participate more, and discourage wolves from making big visible moves, lest they eat a bullet for it.

Of course, Pleo seems to advocate the opposing, more passive approach: an "extra elimination" that should only shoot players that player consensus and/or mechanical evidence strongly indicates is a wolf, and not shooting otherwise. While in this game, the multiple "wraps" are an obvious comeback mechanic which makes shooting wild and hitting town less of a deal-breaker, it still makes sense why town!Pleo would be wary of putting too much power in one player's fallible hands.

This is my first rodeo with Skeezix, so I'm unsure if the former approach is typical for them and/or their home community, but FMPOV it totally makes sense for the Vengelimination mechanic here to make that option even more attractive to them than usual.

Which one is correct? In my opinion, it's a trick question. No one approach to playing Vigilante is gonna fit all situations. It's always gonna depend on context: what other wolf-hunting tools are currently in the game, as well as how much your individual shots have the potential to make or break it.

Of course, it's totally up to the actual Vigilante what they do, as well as when, and why. I just want to give the Vigilante this advice:

• Be flexible, whatever your "default" approach. Take some time to seriously consider the current gamestate, and run the risk vs. benefit calculations on any potential shot choice.
• It's okay to be wrong – it's not okay to be wrong with no justification. You need to have at least some kind of real, positive evidence (i.e explaining what your suspect did, rather than what they could have been doing) against whoever you're killing, because you might well have to explain that case when it goes badly.
• Keep in mind the odds change as the game drags on. For example, right now with 19 players alive, you could literally pick a random name from the list and have only ~16% chance of hitting a Blue. But in a much smaller 8-9 player situation, where most of the Blues are still alive and trying to nail the last of the scum, you're chances of hitting them are [I]much higher[/I, and you're way more likely to fuck over town's chances of winning if you do. Adjust your play accordingly.

Originally Posted by TexCat

And the Doc can protect the Cop every night. So it makes sense for the Cop to claim and get protected.

I really don't like this piggyback off Pleo's post. It uses different words, but literally communicates zero additional info. Seems like "looking busy" to me.

(some more arguing about Vidge strategy and stuff)

Originally Posted by Bashorian Clement

we we we

The Pizzatells™ abide.

This is the first page and again, Skeez is an unfamiliar player, so I can make no judgements about BCs assessment here. I myself would not be so quick to pounce here – I am slightly biased due to the fact that I routinely do the same thing myself, especially when trying to set the strategic tenor for the game, as Skeezix seems to be doing here.

(FYI, I also do "interesting" pretty often, but usually spelled "inchresting" and in more of a jokey way, b/c usually it's clear from context what I mean.)

Originally Posted by Kaiveran

KAi checking in

Nobody messaged me about the game starting and I need to sleep

smell ya later

...much later, apparently.

[Kaiveran]

Originally Posted by Halfrize

its been like 45 min. and ive seen you do literally nothing all game.

1) Hey, an alien foxcat thing needs to eat too. And do laundry, and other pitiable banalities. Just like the rest of y'all.
2) I am not very quick on the draw in the first, as anyone here who's played with me likely knows. I'm very detail oriented and like to sit and chew things over in mind, probably to an unhealthy degree. Combine that with all kinds of RL bullshit and you get a very absent Kai.
3) I use the word "night" very loosely, as my sleep schedule has skewed way late as of...late.
4) I am an uncounterclaimed Cop.

[Kaiveran]

Originally Posted by LightFoot

The first thing I wanted to type would not help the situation so I said it out loud to get it off my chest.

The offenders and the offended have good reason to take a step back- But leaving the game defeats the spirit of our holiday game.

It appears we have a cop a doc and a vig claim.
welcome to D1

of course now I have to re-read the "leash the Vig" discussions and the PR suggestions in general.
Unfortunately I think alot of that is buried in pizza sauce* so any assistance is welcome.




*not intended as a slur

Excuse me?

[Kaiveran]

Originally Posted by Dizzymrslizzy

I haven't even been able to keep track of who claimed what at this point. I don't have the bandwidth with work to go back and re-read 500 posts. I'd love the abridged version also.

I saw Kai claimed something? Cop?
Pizza claimed Town Power
Pleo Claimed Not Cop, Not Vig.

Originally Posted by guiri

I recognise this is not a ploy.

I apologise if I’ve contributed to your discomfort in this game. I’m the town doc

Well that's fucking fantastic.

[Kaiveran]

So, if all this is true, with no funny business, that means we've literally had the worst possible start for town, with all Blues exposed D1.

Dare I believe this, in a situation were not everyone has been around to CC yet? (Unless I'm missing something.)

I dunno.

For what I've been able to backskim of the guiri/pizza thunderdome, it seems a bit inorganic in its progression? The pizza self-vote is really bizarre and uncharacteristic of what I know of him, especially after not insubstantial work he's put into the guiri case and his own defense.

I'm starting to tinfoil that guiri/pizza might be scumA/scumB, catching each other out on genuine scumhunting and driving each other into inescapable corners. In which case, they should still not be voted off today, and NO counterclaims should be made. If you are the real Vigilante, just shoot Pizza tonight and we can look at things with clearer vision moving forward.

Then again, I'm still ignorant of the lead up to this whole thing, so I should probably continue digging into it as much as possible.

[mikomiya]

Originally Posted by Kaiveran

So, if all this is true, with no funny business, that means we've literally had the worst possible start for town, with all Blues exposed D1.

Dare I believe this, in a situation were not everyone has been around to CC yet? (Unless I'm missing something.)

I dunno.

For what I've been able to backskim of the guiri/pizza thunderdome, it seems a bit inorganic in its progression? The pizza self-vote is really bizarre and uncharacteristic of what I know of him, especially after not insubstantial work he's put into the guiri case and his own defense.

I'm starting to tinfoil that guiri/pizza might be scumA/scumB, catching each other out on genuine scumhunting and driving each other into inescapable corners. In which case, they should still not be voted off today, and NO counterclaims should be made. If you are the real Vigilante, just shoot Pizza tonight and we can look at things with clearer vision moving forward.

Then again, I'm still ignorant of the lead up to this whole thing, so I should probably continue digging into it as much as possible.

I explored the idea of them being scum A and scum B the other day. At the time I could see it. With the new claim information I don't really know why either would fake claim in this situation as they'd just out themselves to the real power role and the opposing scum team would target them because they'd want to kill them whether they are truthfully town power or lying scum they need to kill too. I'm inclined to believe them both. It's not the most outlandish thing for power roles to play a bit weird and come off as scummy and both of them - who both appear to be well versed in mafia based on how they speak - picking up on the other one doing it.

To take your theory of them being scum A/scum B a bit further, it is my belief that if they are both lying, there will be zero night kills this night. The real town doctor will protect you because they know Guiri is lying. The real vig will shoot Pizza because they know Pizza is lying. Each scum team will shoot the other claim while doctoring their own. No kills will go through.

This is why I believe it's unlikely to be a lie. They'd have signed their own death for no gain midway through day 1.

[guiri]

Originally Posted by Red Skeezix

guiri - why did you fill in the blank there?

I apologised for my poor play, I don’t think Pizza’s self-vote or frustration was a scum ploy and wanted to make peace, and I still hope he comes back. His world-building was significantly dependent on me being scum so if he sees my claim, maybe he’ll be able to provide some insight before we’re both killed off.

[guiri]

Originally Posted by A Poor Shepherd Boy

When someone is wrong about you in Mafia there are two explanations. They are either wrong for innocent reasons, which happens much the time in this silly game. Or they are are wrong for nefarious reasons, which happens every time with Scum in mafia. I cannot tell for sure that Pleonast is wrong for nefarious reasons, but it is a place to start looking when other avenues hit blind alleys, as has happened late in this difficult Day.

In multiball scum don’t have to have nefarious reasons to make a case, they can truly scum hunt and be wrong for innocent reasons.