Should I tell this girl the truth?

[The Man]

The Man is now a free man again!! Meaning single

I've been on a few dates here and there. There's this one chick I've known for about 10 years now. Been a pretty good friend. The other day she asks me "Why haven't you ever asked me out? Tell me the truth!" She was pretty serious about wanting to know the truth.

Well, the truth is that she's out of shape and doesn't know how to fix herself up. She dresses in boring clothes and could stand to lose about 20 pounds. She's about 5'5" and I would guess around 160-170 pounds.

That's the real reason why I don't ask her out, I'm not physically attracted to her.

Should I tell her the truth? I think if I did it might help her. Several of my buddies have made similiar comments, as in she would be cute if she was skinnier. (She also has a big nose but that doesn't bother me, though some of my buddies have said, not to her, that she'd look better with a nose job.) I think if she made more of an effort she'd have a lot more dates. She always complains that no one asks her out.

On the other hand I don't want to look like a jerk.

[KidVermicious]

Originally Posted by The Man

On the other hand I don't want to look like a jerk.

Too late.

[Radical Edward]

She's better off without you, asshole.

[SmartAleq]

Originally Posted by Radical Edward

She's better off without you, asshole.

Completely concur--therefore my answer is that, yes, you absolutely should tell her.

[Taur]

Originally Posted by SmartAleq

Completely concur--therefore my answer is that, yes, you absolutely should tell her.

My answer would be that The Troll Man tell her that he's known all along that he's not worthy of her and could they just leave it at that?

[eleanorigby]

How is the truth helpful here? You think she doesn't know she needs to lose weight? Do you have a functional cerebral cortex? How would telling her you don't find her 1. attractive and 2. she's overweight help her in the slightest?

But the others are correct: it would completely reveal you as the douche that you are, so please, by all means, go ahead and share your wisdom and honesty with her. And do post again once you can walk.

[hatesfreedom]

God knows I don't understand all the hate for your topic. It's not like women aren't just as shallow. Just tell her you've been friends too long and aren't attracted to her that way. It's probably the oldest line in the book.

[backyard]

I want to see a picture of you.

[Knee]

She's WAY better off without you and she doesn't need your worthless opinions. Learn to worry about shit that makes a difference.

[GreyCloud9]

Everyone likes different things, no it won't be helping her, other to say that "you aren't my type". I am about those specs, dress in hand me downs, and have NO PROBLEM finding someone to be with.

[hatesfreedom]

It's amazing how many women are white knighting for some faceless fatty whose only description is a height and weight. There must be some deeper underlying story to this, probably about their fathers penis.

[Knee]

Originally Posted by hatesfreedom

It's amazing how many women are white knighting for some faceless fatty whose only description is a height and weight. There must be some deeper underlying story to this, probably about their fathers penis.

I'm just against the OP. The guy is an asshole and nothing about this thread or any of the others he's ever started or commented in make me think otherwise, so my opinion stands. She's better off without him, so I've changed my mind - I hope he tells her whatever she really doesn't want to hear. EVERY woman is better off without this douchebag.

Doesn't it strike you as odd that he said nothing at all about what the girl was like? Does he even know this "friend" beyond what she looks like?

[Uthrecht]

Originally Posted by Knee

Doesn't it strike you as odd that he said nothing at all about what the girl was like?

I'm sure she has a lovely personality.

[Jaglavak]

Wow. Just a couple little flakes of chum in the water and it's a feeding frenzy.

[hatesfreedom]

Originally Posted by Knee

Doesn't it strike you as odd that he said nothing at all about what the girl was like? Does he even know this "friend" beyond what she looks like?

It is a little odd now that you mention it. You'd think there'd be a description at least of some personality quirks or something.

I have one girl who is sadly just a friend of mine. But I came up to her at work one day before she got out and said, "rawr i'm a stegosaurus!" and without batting an eye or looking up she replied, "does that mean you're old and horny?"

gosh what a lady. i swooned.

[transcriber]

Originally Posted by hatesfreedom

It is a little odd now that you mention it. You'd think there'd be a description at least of some personality quirks or something.

Why? She is a friend that he's not physically attracted to. Maybe she's a great girl that is totally unfuckable.

[KidVermicious]

Originally Posted by hatesfreedom

"rawr i'm a stegosaurus!"

Careful with that. I think it's been awhile since Dirx got any, what with being stuck in the Dakotas and all...

[Giraffe]

I don't see any good coming from telling a friend that you don't find them attractive. A persistent nuisance in a bar, sure. But someone you ostensibly like, I think it would be kinder to simply brush them off with a "don't think of you in that way", "value you as a friend", etc. platitude.

Now, if they were seriously not taking care of themselves in a specific way (e.g. never brushing their teeth), then you could potentially actually help them by giving them a heads-up. But a basic "you're not hot enough" is not at all helpful: most people already say that to themselves all the time. All you'll do is fuel her insecurities.

[Solfy]

See #5. ETA: And #4.

[eleanorigby]

Good article, Solfy.

[hatesfreedom]

eh, that's probably a good point. I still like fit women though.

[hatesfreedom]

I also want to know what qualifies as boring clothing and what qualifies as exciting clothing. Because no woman should have to wear heels. Devils shoes.

[Khampelf]

"Well, with your dumpy flabby midget body, frumpy wardrobe and huge beak, you look a lot like Opus the penguin. Do I look like the sort of freak that wants to fuck Opus the penguin?"

By all means, tell her what you think.

[Dragonlady]

Originally Posted by Khampelf

"Well, with your dumpy flabby midget body, frumpy wardrobe and huge beak, you look a lot like Opus the penguin. Do I look like the sort of freak that wants to fuck Opus the penguin?"

By all means, tell her what you think.

OHMIGOD, I love you SOOOO much!

[eleanorigby]

Yes, she did indeed ask. But, IME (and IMO) that doesn't mean she made herself open to devastating honesty. Tact is still needed, and some empathy as well.

This is probably playing with fire, but if the roles were reversed, what if she said to him, "I never asked you out because you're bald/short/fat."

I'm trying to stick with something that is as immediately visual as her weight. But, I am not sure this exact scenario would play out the same if the people were reversed.
While men can be plenty hurt by being called fat, IMO (IANAM), it is not as hurtful to them as it is to women. Women are judged on their weight their entire lives--and rarely to their benefit. The recent story about that mom who was written up in Vogue about publicly shaming her daughter for her weight and eating habits springs to mind.

I'm not trying to sidetrack the discussion. What I'm getting at is that for someone in this situation to be that honest with a woman has a more negative impact than in other areas of social validation. It'd be like a man asking a woman why she won't date him and her replying, "Because I was told you have a small dick." The 2 situations/set-ups aren't the same, but the IMPACT on the person is.

She may well be overweight. Hell, she may well be outright fat. I'm all for honesty, usually, but in this case, honesty gets you nowhere and loses you a friend. Couched in more tactful terms such as "I'm just not attracted to you." answers the same question, but spares her feelings. She already knows (oh, how she knows!) she is fat or overweight. I doubt she was looking for the true answer. I could be completely wrong, me not being her. All I can do is put myself in her shoes (difficult because I've never asked a man why he hasn't ever asked me out. At least not since my braces came off.) and go by my likely emotional response.

But the OP has already shown, multiple times over many threads, that he is not a compassionate or particularly empathic individual. So, I stand by my "white knighting" (hardly that) in saying that he probably should be brutally honest with her--but be prepared for blowback. And not only that, lose a friend in the process and spread needless hurt.


ETA: Sleeps said it better. And I agree that if she keeps pressing, then she has crossed a line and should get the truth.

[Scuba Ben]

Originally Posted by The Man

That's the real reason why I don't ask her out, I'm not physically attracted to her.

If said politely, that's sufficient.

But I recommend you spank/tickle/smooch/get your jollies before answering the question. And run away fast afterwards.

[Metallic Squink]

At the risk of sounding like I agree with The Man, I will say that I don't see the issue with telling someone (tactfully, I would hope) that they are not physically attractive. She specifically asked why The Man didn't want to go out with her. If he's honest and says it's her physical appearance, why is that bad? The bottom line is that some people are attractive to others and some aren't.

[iampunha]

Originally Posted by Metallic Squink

At the risk of sounding like I agree with The Man, I will say that I don't see the issue with telling someone (tactfully, I would hope) that they are not physically attractive. She specifically asked why The Man didn't want to go out with her. If he's honest and says it's her physical appearance, why is that bad? The bottom line is that some people are attractive to others and some aren't.

This is me.

I don't give unsolicited opinions about appearance unless someone looks hurt or dying.

But if I am asked for an opinion, the person requesting it has lost the right to be offended by reasonable commentary. "You're overweight" is, to me, an acceptable response to a concern about not being asked out. If the person doesn't physically interest you and that's why you're not asking them out, that's just honesty.

[Solfy]

There's a line between telling someone that they're not your physical type vs. telling them that they are flat out unattractive. I've seen enough improbable couples in life to know that for pretty much everyone out there, there's got to be someone they turn on.

[Sleeps With Butterflies]

I have serious doubts as to the seriousness of the OP, but I think a vague "We're friends, I don't think of you any way but that way" would be the way I would go. If pressed I'd say "you're just not my type, but a good friend."

If they kept at it I think I'd go ahead and let them know specifics because at that point they've crossed the line from appropriate to inappropriate questions and apparently want the hard truth.

I hope the people who are choosing to go with "you don't deserve her!" are doing this based on the OP's past and not the idea that one isn't allowed to have physical preferences.

[GreyCloud9]

Originally Posted by Sleeps With Butterflies

I have serious doubts as to the seriousness of the OP, but I think a vague "We're friends, I don't think of you any way but that way" would be the way I would go. If pressed I'd say "you're just not my type, but a good friend."

If they kept at it I think I'd go ahead and let them know specifics because at that point they've crossed the line from appropriate to inappropriate questions and apparently want the hard truth.

I hope the people who are choosing to go with "you don't deserve her!" are doing this based on the OP's past and not the idea that one isn't allowed to have physical preferences.

Really agree with this.

[Argyle Sock]

Originally Posted by The Man

That's the real reason why I don't ask her out, I'm not physically attracted to her.

You're no catch, yourself. It's time to start thinking "I'm not getting any younger or more attractive. I guess I have to take what I can get."

ETA: Especially with man-boobs as ridiculous looking as yours.

[hatesfreedom]

Originally Posted by Argyle Sock

"I'm not getting any younger or more attractive. I guess I have to take what I can get."

Ugh, what a horribly terrifying thing to have to say to yourself. I have the fears!

[eleanorigby]

Originally Posted by hatesfreedom

Ugh, what a horribly terrifying thing to have to say to yourself. I have the fears!

Why? It's just honest. None of us will be gracing the cover of Vogue or even Fishermen's Quarterly anytime soon. Take what I can get seems depressing; I'd say it's better to gauge expectations down to realistic possibilities.


General remark:

The more I think about that Cracked article Solfy linked to, the more it disturbs me. In a way, the entire article is sexist. Men drive the cars they do, build the buildings they do etc, for women-to gain their approval (so that they can have sex with them--read the piece; very thought-provoking). I don't buy it, mostly because women didn't ask for those cars or those buildings etc. And saying that "it's all done for you"--even war--makes women the gatekeepers. It's a way of shifting responsibility for the male's choices onto the female.


(of course, this door swings both ways--I do not mean to imply that it does not).

Sorry if this is a hijack.

[iampunha]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

The more I think about that Cracked article Solfy linked to, the more it disturbs me. In a way, the entire article is sexist. Men drive the cars they do, build the buildings they do etc, for women-to gain their approval (so that they can have sex with them--read the piece; very thought-provoking). I don't buy it, mostly because women didn't ask for those cars or those buildings etc. And saying that "it's all done for you"--even war--makes women the gatekeepers. It's a way of shifting responsibility for the male's choices onto the female.


(of course, this door swings both ways--I do not mean to imply that it does not).

They don't ask for them -- or turn them down. Or they do turn them down, but they usually don't all turn them down unless something's plain wrong with the man.

Men display resources. Women display fertility/bodily fun (though I believe the research suggests pretty strongly that the fun is a series of signs of fertility). If the system did not work, it would not be in place, no?

[Glazer]

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

Take what I can get seems depressing; I'd say it's better to gauge expectations down to realistic possibilities.

Does that mean I stand a chance?

[Flying Saucerian]

There's also the rather obvious point that the picture he'd post might not be one of himself.

[Jaglavak]

Originally Posted by hatesfreedom

Ugh, what a horribly terrifying thing to have to say to yourself. I have the fears!

It's only sporting. As your looks and couth start slipping, so should your standards.


ETA:

Originally Posted by eleanorigby

I'd say it's better to gauge expectations down to realistic possibilities.

Oh fine then, be diplomatic.

[hatesfreedom]

Too true, I suppose it doesn't really matter if they're attractive enough, witty, and have a good sense of humor.

Originally Posted by Jaglavak

It's only sporting. As your looks and couth start slipping, so should your standards.

We're men, our hair goes gray and women find us even more attractive. It's the best.

[Wolf Larsen]

The sweet spot for a guy seems to be about 40 and in good shape with some money. You can still pull the young hotties, especially the ones with daddy issues and you can also get women with personality.

[The Man]

Thanks to everyone who took the trouble to answer honestly, instead of coming in here slinging insults and trying to start a fight. Those people can fuck off to The Pit if they want to start a fight.

Since people are asking me to describe her personality and coming up with all kinds of crazy conspiracy theories where I didn't. Her personality's not the reason I'm not attracted to her, so not relevant. But there's things I like about her and things I don't. She'll sit down and watch sports in a group, she has a sense of humor, she doesn't mind watching the kind of movies I like. She's pretty smart. But she spends a lot of time reading, I like watching TV better. She's terrible at softball and poker, but she still wants to join us in our poker games. I feel bad for her coz she always loses. But she's great at pictionary. And like lots of women, she goes pet crazy. She has two dogs and two cats, and talks about getting a third cat. Wouldn't be so bad if her house wasn't covered in pet hair. She needs to vacuum more than once a week. Her roommate is a slob. If you have pets you still need to keep your place clean. I have a dog and my place doesn't smell like wet dog. There, happy?

Looks like most people are in favor of me telling her the truth. I'll do that and try to be tactful. If she's bugging me for an honest answer, I don't know why she shouldn't get one. Some chicks get so up in arms about telling a woman she could look better, and I hear the same chicks making fun of guys because they're losers, or live at home with their folks, or don't have a job making tons of money. If you dish it out, ya gotta be ready to take it. I'm sure the chicks in here that were all pissed off (just read the first , like, 5 or 10 posts in here) are the same kind of chicks that will have no problem ragging on a guy because he doesn't bring in the dough or whatever. So kiss my ass.

[Knee]

Originally Posted by The Man

Thanks to everyone who took the trouble to answer honestly, instead of coming in here slinging insults and trying to start a fight. Those people can fuck off to The Pit if they want to start a fight.

Since people are asking me to describe her personality and coming up with all kinds of crazy conspiracy theories where I didn't. Her personality's not the reason I'm not attracted to her, so not relevant. But there's things I like about her and things I don't. She'll sit down and watch sports in a group, she has a sense of humor, she doesn't mind watching the kind of movies I like. She's pretty smart. But she spends a lot of time reading, I like watching TV better. She's terrible at softball and poker, but she still wants to join us in our poker games. I feel bad for her coz she always loses. But she's great at pictionary. And like lots of women, she goes pet crazy. She has two dogs and two cats, and talks about getting a third cat. Wouldn't be so bad if her house wasn't covered in pet hair. She needs to vacuum more than once a week. Her roommate is a slob. If you have pets you still need to keep your place clean. I have a dog and my place doesn't smell like wet dog. There, happy?

Looks like most people are in favor of me telling her the truth. I'll do that and try to be tactful. If she's bugging me for an honest answer, I don't know why she shouldn't get one. Some chicks get so up in arms about telling a woman she could look better, and I hear the same chicks making fun of guys because they're losers, or live at home with their folks, or don't have a job making tons of money. If you dish it out, ya gotta be ready to take it. I'm sure the chicks in here that were all pissed off (just read the first , like, 5 or 10 posts in here) are the same kind of chicks that will have no problem ragging on a guy because he doesn't bring in the dough or whatever. So kiss my ass.

Come now, I was being honest, just like you said you were appreciative of. I'm pleasantly surprised to learn that you know something about the girl besides what she looks like and am even inclined to answer your question for real this time. I agree with the posters who said to be vague and gentle in your explanation unless she starts bugging you for a real answer (in which case I'm also all for the whole truth, albeit still worded nicely.) If it was just a one-time question it doesn't need a heavy-handed long explanation including a detailed analysis of the poor girl's BMI standings or whatever.

Are you sure you aren't just intimidated by her? She sounds way smarter than you

Another consideration - has she asked you more than once about this? Are you absolutely sure she wasn't just joking around and you aren't about to embarrass yourself by giving a real answer?

FYI, my boyfriend is a maintenance guy and I work in a call center. I don't worry or complain about who is "bringing in the dough" because it's mostly no one. I haven't met many gold diggers on the Geeb that I could pinpoint, come to think of it.

[Uthrecht]

Originally Posted by Knee

I haven't met many gold diggers on the Geeb that I could pinpoint, come to think of it.

I'm following Squink around to get a ride in her Benz.

[Knee]

Originally Posted by Uthrecht

I'm following Squink around to get a ride in her Benz.

Yeah but you follow anyone with something shiny; that doesn't count.

Originally Posted by Radical Edward

I was being completely serious. You're an asshole, and she deserves better than you.

The first advice I gave was tailored to The Man. The last post I made was advice I'd give to (almost) anyone else.

[Metallic Squink]

Originally Posted by Uthrecht

I'm following Squink around to get a ride in her Benz.

Well, I do have a reputation as a sugar mama so your chances of getting a ride are pretty good.

[Argyle Sock]

Originally Posted by Knee

Are you sure you aren't just intimidated by her? She sounds way smarter than you

So do they --->:scitard::duh::veb:

[Jaglavak]

Originally Posted by The Man

If you dish it out, ya gotta be ready to take it... So kiss my ass.

Oh, my. Thanks I needed that.


Meanwhile, for some reason this thread reminds me of a guy I used to work with. He hooked up with a hot little redhead one fine summer and seemed well on his way to settling down. But a couple months later when I saw him he was single again. Apparently she had gained something like 15 or 20 pounds in the months they were together. That was such a turnoff for him that he dumped her. He claims he tried to talk with her about it but she got all offended and went off on him.

After half an hour of listening to him rant and bloviate about fat chicks, I couldn't help but point out the substantial beer gut hanging over his belt.

Dude got all offended and stomped off. Oh yeah.

[Uthrecht]

Originally Posted by Jaglavak

Dude got all offended and stomped off. Oh yeah.

Okay, yeah, right. So, did you call the girl, or what?

[Jaglavak]

Didn't know her, we just met the once. For damn sure I wasn't getting her number out of him.

[iampunha]

Originally Posted by The Man

She's pretty smart. But she spends a lot of time reading, I like watching TV better.

At the risk of being late to the party with this, have you approached her on her level or suggested an activity that doesn't involve sitting and doing basically nothing movement-based except occasionally turning a page?

My wife will lie in bed and read for five hours, happily, undisturbed. I am still learning that unless we're having a fight (in which case she simply won't talk to me), interrupting her so long as I don't do it every five minutes is fine. So if you're up for a relationship where you aren't immediately massively attracted to her (I wasn't immediately massively attracted to the wife), see how she feels about being interrupted. Just make sure she's at the end of a chapter.