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#1
13th June 2013, 03:46 AM
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Real estate spite (long, maybe boring)
So I closed on a vacation home last month, and got a very good deal—the house was reasonably priced, the mortgage was low (just under 3.5%), and I’m pleased, except there was a glitch at the closing that has me ticked off. The sellers were supposed to hand over, at the closing, two keys to the condo’s clubhouse, two debit cards to the condo’s café, and two ID cards, and this requirement was written in both the HOA documents that the sellers sent to me before the closing and were printed on the ID card themselves (“This card is the property of the HOA, and must be surrendered upon selling or renting the property…”). The sellers, who were the two adult offspring of the deceased occupant, did not show up at the closing, nor did they send a representative, but instead pre-signed (by fax) all the documents, so I brought up to the two gentlemen present (the lawyer with the title company, and my realtor) the fact that these required items were to be provided by the sellers and were not present.
I had been notified (by the HOA) in advance that it was my responsibility to see that the seller provided these items or else I would have to pay a fee for each of them, which came to $260. I paid this sum to the HOA upon getting photographed for the ID cards, and I notified my realtor (at the closing) that while I wouldn’t hold up the closing for $260, I thought I should be reimbursed, and he agreed to bring it up when he contacted the seller’s agent. In an attempt to make this long, complicated story shorter and simplified, the sellers were unwilling to pay me a nickel (although I provided copious documentation—my cancelled check, the HOA rules, etc.) and I just got off the phone with their attorney, who told me that I was seeking recourse for a done deal, and his clients didn‘t owe me squat. He maintained that his clients didn’t know how many keys they were supposed to turn over, never had any ID cards, etc. and if I had a complaint I should have brought it up at the closing. “To whom?” I asked, as neither his clients nor he were present at the closing. “You should have held off signing,” he informed, “until you got the keys and cards or the money you feel you were owed. If the $260 was so important to you, you should have postponed the signing of these documents until you got it.” I pointed out to him that the closing was valid only through that afternoon, and it would have cost me additional money if I had to re-negotiate the mortgage, re-apply for a new mortgage, etc. (That’s another story entirely—I had three months before the closing date, and I filled out all the forms as quickly as I got them, and it still took split second timing to get the closing done by the expiration date of the contract.) His response was that's my tough luck. And in a sense, it is. I can absorb the $260 (after all, I just laid out over a hundred times that much for the down payment and the closing costs) but it galls me to let these cheap bastards get away with cheating me out of this sum. When I mentioned to the lawyer that his clients would have to pay him more than the $260 to litigate this, and I would have to pay an attorney an equal amount, he advised me to walk away, but making them hire an attorney to defend their indefensible actions is the only way I can think of to hurt them. Further I will be living in this county, and can appear in court, and they will be living out of county (I don’t know where, but it was far enough that they didn’t appear at the closing) so it will probably be more onerous for them to defend this suit than for me to bring it. I would be happy if there were an arbitration or mediation board to settle this, but their attorney assured me that no such body existed—I will look through the mortgage papers to see if this is so. I faintly remember signing something about a mediation board to settle all disputes, but I’m not sure it was set up to address this situation. What would you do in this situation? Spend more than $260 to recover the $260 or take the hit? ETA: the arbitration paragraph seems to cover disputes with the title insurance company, not sure if inter-party disputes are covered. Also, I found that the sellers live about 1000 miles away. 
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#2
13th June 2013, 04:39 AM
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you are feeling spiteful & it seems justified so, sure, what the hell, spend the money.
or you could just enjoy your vacation home - bet it's nice.
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#3
13th June 2013, 04:45 AM
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One of those things you're just going to have to suck up, I'm afraid.
Looks like you're in one of those places where it's not necessary to have your own attorney present at closings. A good attorney would have handled small details like this in a way that was proactive and would have not had you in the position of needing to hold up the bigger deal to collect a measly $260.
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#4
13th June 2013, 05:03 AM
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$260? Take them to small claims court?
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#5
13th June 2013, 06:56 AM
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When I bought my first house many, many years ago, I did not complete a final walk through. The buying process was long and had turned contentious.
It had turned contentious because all of a sudden the sellers wanted more money, and we refused to pay more than the appraised price. So after much back and forth, the time came for closing. My husband and I were young and naive. During our first time through the house, everything looked great. They day we moved in, we found big holes in the bedroom doors and in a couple of walls. The stove was just filthy. Additionally, they had ripped out every single curtain rod and the brackets, which in this state, are considered a permanent fixtures, unless you clean up the damage by said removal. I immediately called my broker to complain, and she called their agent. I was told the same thing; tough shit; take us to court. Being young and having laid out a big sum of cash already, we opted not take them to court. It was a painful and expensive lesson. It would definitely cost you more money to take them to court. It would definitely inconvenience them, but it also inconvenience you.
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#6
13th June 2013, 07:07 AM
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I don't know about suing them, unless I was sure I could win. Since you signed off at closing, does that mean (legally) that you accepted the deal, that you were okay with not getting the keys and the cards? Maybe it's true that they didn't have the cards. Maybe the sellers signed the papers without reading them thoroughly, and didn't know everything they were supposed to do.
I'd still be pissed. You did everything you were supposed to do, and they didn't.
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#7
13th June 2013, 09:03 AM
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In this state, lawyers are not required in small claims court (which has a $5000 limit on claims). IIRC you pay a fee of around $50, and then both parties show up and explain things to the judge with no lawyers. So for another $50 you could make one or both of them travel 2000 miles and get chewed out by a judge. I think you should do it. But first, check the rules in your state.
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#9
13th June 2013, 09:51 AM
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If they don't show up it's an automatic judgement in your favor. Then with a court order in hand you should be able to sell the debt to a collections agency for a few pennies. You won't see much money, but setting the dogs on them would be worth it to me.
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#11
13th June 2013, 10:45 AM
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Seems like two choices to me. Let it go, or let it drag you (down, or into worse!).
Step back. You admit you can absorb this, so do so. Move on and set about enjoying your new place. Leave revenge to the Gods and justice to karma. No good comes from acting out of spite. Ever.
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#12
13th June 2013, 10:55 AM
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The way I look at it, if it's enough to cause aggro for Mental, it's enough to cause a little aggro right back. That's what small claims is for. It's not like a bounty hunter is going to kick down their door or anything.
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#13
13th June 2013, 11:24 AM
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Small claims it is, then. I will keep you posted.
Anyone have experience in small claims court beyond what's already been discussed? Just giving them agita opening the notice to appear in small claims court is some measure of payback.
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#14
13th June 2013, 11:24 AM
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Small claims court judgements show up on a credit report right? File a claim with the Court and then forget about it. You can therefore enjoy your new house knowing that one day that having that judgement on their report might bite them on the arse.
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#15
13th June 2013, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
That attorney is probably a miserable SOB whose wife is shtupping the pool boy. When she gives him an STD, he'll think back on what he did with this sale. Even if you win your judgment, it'll cost you some more money to try to collect it. It's not worth the time and trouble. Revel in the fact that you took the high road.
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#16
13th June 2013, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
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#17
13th June 2013, 11:59 AM
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#19
13th June 2013, 02:19 PM
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I don't think there are any court costs aside from the filing fee. So the most you could lose would be that. You want to verify all that while you're checking the rules in your state of course. Besides, it will cost each dirtbag at least that much to travel to the court, so they get gouged anyway. Even a loss is still a minor win.
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#20
13th June 2013, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
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#21
14th June 2013, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
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#22
14th June 2013, 09:41 AM
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If you get a judgement in your favor from small claims court you can use that to garnish wages. Ask me how I know this.
 You are also allowed to tack on your costs to the garnishment. You'll have to do a bit more legwork to get it done this way, but you'll get your money and it's teeth grindingly annoying to see a paycheck with money taken out over something you violently disagree you owe.
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#23
14th June 2013, 11:16 AM
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Keep in mind these are not nice people. The main thing that will prevent them from abusing more folks is if they get their asses in a wringer. So in a way, prosecuting to the limit now is actually good karma to all hose nice folks they will meet in the future.
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#24
14th June 2013, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
(It's a gated community, so they won't entering too easily, but especially not if their keys won't work.)
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#25
14th June 2013, 11:42 AM
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Another advantage to the wage garnishment thing--if the debt is satisfied in this manner it's up to you, the winner, to tell the court that the lien against your opponent is discharged. However, if you're a lazy fucking slob who can't be arsed to tell the court about this, it's possible that a home purchase or a refi might be held up pending proof there's no longer an outstanding judgement against the other person. Ask me how I know this.
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| Giraffiti |
| don't fuck with the judge |
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