I demand a tag audit too!

[mlerose]

Hellz yes!

[SoylentPopTart]

Originally Posted by Elyanna

Is it time for another episode of Badtz comics?

I bow to your majesty, my Queen.

[Taur]

Looks more like community theatre to me, Ely.

[Elyanna]

Hmm. Still not sure if there's enough new material to work with.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by SoylentPopTart

No way.
I say it's find out exactly how easy it is for the mods to police the tags while at the same time,.

Just to reiterate, it's a pain in the ass to police tags. On a one-off basis, no prob. But it'd take me 20 minutes or so to check all the tags in this thread alone. And that's not including the ones I'm gonna add.

[SoylentPopTart]

Because I like you (and I'm gunning for a custom title), I'll save you a minute or two and tell you that the 'I demand a pony!' tag is mine.

[hajario]

Originally Posted by Elyanna

Is it time for another episode of Badtz comics?

I should say so.

[Sybarite]

Originally Posted by Badtz Maru

It's just annoying to have someone judging serious life decisions like the one to put down that dog when they have no understanding or the situation or are misrepresenting it to be something it wasn't. I've always loved animals, the only charity I've ever worked for was the Humane Society, and that goes back to childhood when I helped my mother at a thrift store the Humane Society ran. I may be guilty of a lot of character flaws, but I've always tried my hardest to be kind to animals and having to have one put down that was not in pain or dying was one of the hardest decisions I've ever been a part of. I took a stray dog off the street and tried my hardest to take good care of it, and when it became obvious that we could not do that, instead of just dumping it in someone elses neighborhood or at the pound, we paid to have her euthanized humanely, and Radical Edward keeps nagging about it across multiple threads, probably because he realizes that it's a sensitive issue for me.

You are aware that you can't control what people think of you, right?

[Muskrat Love]

Originally Posted by Fenris

Just to reiterate, it's a pain in the ass to police tags. On a one-off basis, no prob. But it'd take me 20 minutes or so to check all the tags in this thread alone. And that's not including the ones I'm gonna add.

I was not aware it was more difficult for moderators to look up info on tags than other posts. I thought maybe you'd have a tool where you could select a tag and get a list of users that had used it, and vice-versa. Since tags were no longer anonymous, I was going to satisfy my curiosity about some of the tags and maybe use some of that info as ammunition, but I wouldn't want to put you through so much trouble. Since it's something that is a pain and has to be done on a tag-by-tag basis, I withdraw my request.

I do still think it sucks to have something that was assumed to be anonymous become, well, not anonymous, and that info only being available on request on a case-by-case basis. If looking up who made a tag was something available to anyone for any reason, it would be fairer, but I'm sure complaints that someone is stalking them will be taken more seriously coming from some posters as compared to, say, me.

[Muskrat Love]

Originally Posted by Sybarite

You are aware that you can't control what people think of you, right?

Sure you can. If I let someone accuse me of being a dog killer repeatedly without any response or explanation, some people would be bound to think that I was a killer of dogs. By calling him on it whenever he does, that will convince some (if not all people) that I am not a malicious dog murderer.

Any lie repeated enough times WILL be believed by some. The opposite is true - challenging a lie will prevent some people from believing it.

[brownie55]

Originally Posted by Badtz Maru

Sure you can. If I let someone accuse me of being a dog killer repeatedly without any response or explanation, some people would be bound to think that I was a killer of dogs. By calling him on it whenever he does, that will convince some (if not all people) that I am not a malicious dog murderer.

Any lie repeated enough times WILL be believed by some. The opposite is true - challenging a lie will prevent some people from believing it.

Doesn't matter. We all still think you are a troll. Dog killer is just a little icing on the cake.

[Muskrat Love]

Originally Posted by brownie55

Doesn't matter. We all still think you are a troll. Dog killer is just a little icing on the cake.

Not everyone things I'm a troll, and anyway - I think dog killer is a lot worse than troll.

[Uthrecht]

Originally Posted by Badtz Maru

I do still think it sucks to have something that was assumed to be anonymous become, well, not anonymous, and that info only being available on request on a case-by-case basis.

To be fair, it was brought up pretty early on that tags weren't truly anonymous - the author of the tag is in the message board's database, so that the system knows who put the tag on the thread. The point is that vB doesn't provide a simple UI interface to do this, and SQL searches require skill, access to the server and time. If a moderator doesn't have all three of these, that method is out. Sounds like they now have a roundabout method, but the description means it's fairly time-intensive.

[Fenris]

Looking up tags is enough of a pain in the ass that I think I've looked at like 5 tags to see who did them...ever--and all of those were in one or two threads to see if Giraffe was just drunk or something (totally possible) when he said that yeah, tags weren't 100% anon. Seriously--it's sloooooooow. I mean, don't get me wrong--it's not like hours per tag, but...y'know what? I'll time it. I'll edit this in a sec after I look up the "Hello Batdz" (since that's harmless and I won't tell in any case). ETA--took me about a minute from start to finish on a blazing fast connection. If I was at work, double that time at least.

Also, no mod has access to the SQL stuff unless there's stuff Haj and Giraffe haven't told me or Veb. So right now, Giraffe is the only one who could do the SQL search in terms of access, Giraffe and Haj are the only two who know how and I might be able to puzzle it out...if I had access to the Admin stuff...which I don't, Giraffe! (Just sayin')

If it were easy, I'd be tempted to look up who keeps leaving that "Fenris has a penris" tag...and then see if they wanna see it for themselves...maybe buy them roses or something..

[brownie55]

Originally Posted by Badtz Maru

Not everyone things I'm a troll, and anyway - I think dog killer is a lot worse than troll.

You're two, two, two twits in one!

This is going back to an old commercial, I hope you get the reference.

[Muskrat Love]

Wrong thread.

[Roo]

Originally Posted by Badtz Maru

This didn't stop her from getting on the pill as a teenager, but she said she felt really guilty about it and wondered how many zygotes she aborted.

Huh. But did she demand a tag audit?

[Mbossa]

Originally Posted by Fenris

If it were easy, I'd be tempted to look up who keeps leaving that "Fenris has a penris" tag...and then see if they wanna see it for themselves...maybe buy them roses or something..

_*flees*

[Muskrat Love]

Originally Posted by Roo

Huh. But did she demand a tag audit?

I have the "The RCC and Birth Control - A question for Catholics " thread open in another window and posted in the wrong one.

[Kat]

Originally Posted by Who_me?

I... I'm sorry. I tagged this thread. I didn't have the guts to come out and say it.

I tagged, "Hello, Badtz". It wouldn't let me say, "Hi, Badtz".

I tagged it, too! Sorry, Badtz, but my tag is 100% true.

[Radical Edward]

Originally Posted by Badtz Maru

The kids wanted a dog, my wife thought it would be a good idea to have one for security reasons, and we were afraid the dog was going to get run over as it didn't seem to have any fear of cars and had been roaming around our neighborhood for a few days.

There are pictures of the dog in the photo forum ("Post your dog's nose"). The dog is real, and to think that I would put that much work into a made-up story about a dog (posting pictures of it well in advance of posting a thread asking about how to restrain it, and then months later posting that it was put down) is almost sickly paranoid.

Your kids are stupid, your wife is a pussy bitch, and you, a dipshit by the way, could just as easily have called the local Animal Control who would come pick up the dog and put it down humanely after giving it a chance to find a home with someone who would have taken care of it and loved it. I'm not sickly paranoid (at least not about this) I'm merely looking at the bright side: there was never a dog, so you're only an imaginary dog-killer and a dirty troll. Fuck you, motherfucker.

[Dirx]

Longer draft deleted. Short version:

Radical Edward, I honestly considered you a reasonable poster until now. What the hell?

Everyone else: I really don't get this universal Badtz hate. I understand he apparently used to troll here and/or at the 'Dope. I say "apparently," because I either wasn't around, or didn't pay attention. And I don't fucking care, either. I don't see him trolling lately* (and no, you can't say threads like this are trolling, subtle or otherwise, ffs). The requests regarding tags are out of line at worst, and misguided at best, but if that's the worst he's doing, then I think he's pretty OK.


*Idunno, is he actively trolling in fora I don't frequent? Sports? DTP? PPR? Talk Like A...?






I'll probably regret this post, but whatever. I'm sick and tired of all the goddam drama that's been cropping up lately.

[Radical Edward]

Originally Posted by Dirx

Radical Edward, I honestly considered you a reasonable poster until now. What the hell?

Edward has zero tolerance for animal cruelty and stupidity. Also for Dogkiller Maru. Reason ain't got nothing to do with it. This is the goddamned pit, so LET THERE BE PITTING.

ETA: that thread you linked to was clearly trolling. If nothing else it was bait for someone (such as me) to come in and declare that it must have been Badtz who mutilated the cat himself because he's a cat-killer too. Uh, or something.



Dude, I was trying to troll the troll. I guess I'm not very good at it. But sshhhhhh. You're ruining it.

[BJMoose]

Originally Posted by Dirx

Longer draft deleted. Short version:

Radical Edward, I honestly considered you a reasonable poster until now. What the hell?

Everyone else: I really don't get this universal Badtz hate. I understand he apparently used to troll here and/or at the 'Dope. I say "apparently," because I either wasn't around, or didn't pay attention. And I don't fucking care, either. I don't see him trolling lately* (and no, you can't say threads like this are trolling, subtle or otherwise, ffs). The requests regarding tags are out of line at worst, and misguided at best, but if that's the worst he's doing, then I think he's pretty OK.


*Idunno, is he actively trolling in fora I don't frequent? Sports? DTP? PPR? Talk Like A...?






I'll probably regret this post, but whatever. I'm sick and tired of all the goddam drama that's been cropping up lately.

The problem with Badtz is he has these little sprees where his behavior is "unusual" but hard to classify. Is he being trollish? Is he being a jerk? Is he drunker than a skunk trying to mount a porcupine? Is he on some drama queen binge? He's a hard one to figure out.

And there are folks who seem to live for the opportunity to jump all over the likes of BM. I don't know what to make of them, either. Perhaps we should petition His Prehensileness for a Drama Queen subsubsub forum where these folks can diddle each other to their heart's content.

[srzss05]

Originally Posted by Badtz Maru

Any lie repeated enough times WILL be believed by some. The opposite is true - challenging a lie will prevent some people from believing it.

How does a disinterested third party know if the the first statement is a lie, or the "challenge"?

You still can't force people to believe that you are telling the truth just by saying so, and people will believe whatever they want to.

[WednesdayAddams]

Originally Posted by Dirx

Radical Edward, I honestly considered you a reasonable poster until now. What the hell?

Any woman who can calmly state her case and keep her cool whilst I'm ranting at her about her taste in musical artists and not hold a grudge is indeed reasonable. Animals are Edward's button. She's aware that they're completely at our mercy and that people are, as a general rule, bastard covered bastards with bastard filling. This does not detract from her reasonableness, so long as she isn't faced with one of the bastards harming one of the animals entrusted to their care.

I'll probably regret this post, but whatever. I'm sick and tired of all the goddam drama that's been cropping up lately.

Yeah, you're not alone. I know we're all still stinging a little bit, but it would be nice if we could move on.

[WednesdayAddams]

Oh, and well done on the tags. Fenris has a penris is my new favorite.

[Uthrecht]

That's an oldie but a goodie. I think it first popped sometime in April or May. Might even have been for the Boxing Day.

If it means I'll get flowers, I'll take the heat for it.

[The Superhero]

Originally Posted by Badtz Maru

Since tags were no longer anonymous, I was going to satisfy my curiosity about some of the tags and maybe use some of that info as ammunition, but I wouldn't want to put you through so much trouble. Since it's something that is a pain and has to be done on a tag-by-tag basis, I withdraw my request.

"Now that my request has been thoroughly and utterly shot down and openly mocked, I withdraw it."

aka

"You can't fire me, I quit!"

[Fish]

I use the tag system sporadically, if ever; I think in all this time I've created no more tags than could be counted on the fingers of one hand. I've posted none in this thread, none with Badtz's name in them, and I'll be happy to own up to any and all tags I've created.

That said: just as a point of administrative lore, when you look up a tag, what information is revealed? For instance, "obvious troll is obvious" has been used in 14 threads. If a mod audits that thread, does it tell you who created the tag itself, who added that tag to this specific thread, or both?

[Erasmus Darwin]

Originally Posted by Dirx

Radical Edward, I honestly considered you a reasonable poster until now. What the hell?

Seriously? A little while back, she was complaining about the evils of pregnant women and how it's their own damn fault for being pregnant so they don't deserve extra courtesy when it comes to offering them seats on public transportation.

I suppose you could say she's reasonable in-between the bouts of crazy, but I suspect that's true of even a lot of hardcore kooks.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by Fish

That said: just as a point of administrative lore, when you look up a tag, what information is revealed? For instance, "obvious troll is obvious" has been used in 14 threads. If a mod audits that thread, does it tell you who created the tag itself, who added that tag to this specific thread, or both?

...I don't know.

I'll check out 2 threads where "obvious troll is obvious" was used and see what happens. The poster(s?) will remain confidential

[Fenris]

The tags show who added them to the thread. There's no way to tell who invented a tag--looking at the oldest thread where it appeared won't prove it since (I think) that adding a tag won't update the thread.

[Fish]

Hmm ... and there's no guarantee that the first thread, that is to say the thread that comes first chronologically, is the first appearance of that tag. Threads need not be tagged in order.

[Uthrecht]

FYI, the way I would expect it on the database is that there would be one table that contained a list of all the tags currently in the system. Every time someone added a brand-new tag, it'd get an entry there. Then you'd have a second table that would be the list of every thread that tag was used in. This second table would have the user ID linked in. The first table might or might not (I'd think not, though). You need to know who added a tag reference to a thread, so that you can allow them to delete it again.

Unless the main tag table had user IDs in it, there would be no direct way to tell who originally created a tag. Even the oldest timestamp reference on the thread table wouldn't work because someone could have deleted their tag. Well, I suppose that gets into whether deleting tags cause logical or physical deletes, but no need to get complicated.

[Veb]

AFAIK the only way to check tags is thread-by-thread. We can look at the tags in particular thread and see who entered each one for that thread only. So if posters got on a "no u" kick (just making up something crazy here) we could tell who puy a "no u" tag in that specific thread and left it, i.e. didn't delete it later for some reason.

So there's no way to tell everybody who ever left a "no u" tag anywhere, in every thread. There's no way to tell all the tags an individual poster ever made. Well, short of searching each and every thread and there's no way I'd slog through all that without a pretty damned overwhelming reason. It wouldn't help to limit by posts made by an individual because people can read and tag in a thread without posting in it. Short of some nifty buttons Giraffe hasn't found yet, there aren't even halfway easy ways to do this stuff.

[SmartAleq]

Originally Posted by WednesdayAddams

Animals are Edward's button. She's aware that they're completely at our mercy and that people are, as a general rule, bastard covered bastards with bastard filling. This does not detract from her reasonableness, so long as she isn't faced with one of the bastards harming one of the animals entrusted to their care.

Also, Edward is a rescuer who has animals (one in particular) who've given her all kinds of grief but she doesn't just dump them or kill them because they're inconvenient--she just pays for the stitches, fixes the window, bears with the neighbors, keeps working on socializing the critters to make them more attractive to a new owner and does her best to keep her animals fed even when she's down on cash and can barely feed them and herself. Someone blithely going on about how they killed a dog for convenience is going to push her buttons mightily--as it does mine for similar reasons.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Uthrecht

Unless the main tag table had user IDs in it, there would be no direct way to tell who originally created a tag.

I can't think of any reason why the database would need to know that. If I created the tag "recipe thread," all the database needs to know is whether I can remove that tag from that specific thread. Users do not have the power to delete that tag from all threads; therefore, I see no reason (short of auditing such as we're discussing) why that first database would need to store a user ID.

[SoylentPopTart]

Originally Posted by Fish

I can't think of any reason why the database would need to know that. If I created the tag "recipe thread," all the database needs to know is whether I can remove that tag from that specific thread. Users do not have the power to delete that tag from all threads; therefore, I see no reason (short of auditing such as we're discussing) why that first database would need to store a user ID.

vBulletin never saw this crowd coming?

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by TVeblen

e. Well, short of searching each and every thread and there's no way I'd slog through all that without a pretty damned overwhelming reason.

And by "overwhelming reason", we don't mean "Waaah. I got butthurt!", we mean like "Someone's been posting my phone-number or street address." (which, before anyone gets a bright idea, I'm willing to bet (and push for) that being one of the few insta-IP ban offenses here. All the mods I've talked to and most of the posters care about personal privacy)

It wouldn't help to limit by posts made by an individual because people can read and tag in a thread without posting in it. Short of some nifty buttons Giraffe hasn't found yet, there aren't even halfway easy ways to do this stuff.

They don't exist in the Admin control panel I got to see over at 7's place. I thin you'd have to actually do a manual dig into the database and I only would have the vaguest idea where to start on that.

[Uthrecht]

Originally Posted by Fish

I can't think of any reason why the database would need to know that. If I created the tag "recipe thread," all the database needs to know is whether I can remove that tag from that specific thread. Users do not have the power to delete that tag from all threads; therefore, I see no reason (short of auditing such as we're discussing) why that first database would need to store a user ID.

I agree (and had mentioned I didn't really expect the main tags table to have the user ID in it). Either you're doing it for audit trail (which, mind you, is always a good idea) or you're giving the original tag creator special privileges.

Soylent, given what I'm hearing of the moderator tools for tags, it sounds like this was kind of an add-on. It wouldn't be impossible for there to be some kind of extra moderator app (it's my understanding vB can take plugins) to query information about tags. It's just likely that nobody uses it the way we do: they use it the way it was intended, as semi-boring content aggregators.

[Veb]

Originally Posted by SoylentPopTart

vBulletin never saw this crowd coming?

(proudly)

We have discovered heretofore unknown depths of butthurtness.

It's almost like being the first human eyes to see those enormous blind squid that glow in the dark.

[SoylentPopTart]

Originally Posted by Uthrecht

Soylent, given what I'm hearing of the moderator tools for tags, it sounds like this was kind of an add-on. It wouldn't be impossible for there to be some kind of extra moderator app (it's my understanding vB can take plugins) to query information about tags. It's just likely that nobody uses it the way we do: they use it the way it was intended, as semi-boring content aggregators.

I'm not surprised. Even though I'm sure the concept of tag indexing was invented by Xerox in the 50's, it seems like it's popularity is a relatively new thing. I probably should have said 'didn't see us coming!!!'

I'm no expert but I get the impression that the vBulletin databases are externalized so you could access them via SQL from the backend. I always had the impression that too much of that kind of tinkering is why Jerry struggled so much.

I'd rather not have tags then to drag our ad/moderation thru that bs. This is supposed to be fun.



Fenris, 7 let you see the admin control panel?!? Did you slip him a mickey?

[Uthrecht]

I just did some reviewing. Sounds like vBulletin uses MySQL and is programmed in PHP, and it sounds like that's what the modifications/add-ons/hacks use.

The database is likely externalized in that it's not within the message board software, yes. So you could go in with a SQL query analyzer (a bit time consuming), build an external application to run queries based on data (probably also a bit consuming), or build a PHP moderator/admin control panel add-on where you pull down a specific tag from the cloud, or a specific thread, and it returns back a list of who created what where. That actually sounds kind of fun.

[spaceweft]

Originally Posted by WednesdayAddams

... people are, as a general rule, bastard covered bastards with bastard filling.

You just brought a little tear of joy to my eye with that phrase. I love it and promise to feed it at least twice a day if I can keep it.

- Weft

[WednesdayAddams]

I'm glad you enjoyed it. Please feel free to gank it without guilt, as I did so from some tv show or other. It was the best piece of writing I'd heard in years.

[Islander]

Why do I punish myself like this? I read through 96 posts when I should be preparing bird food and packing. Major head slaps for me.

[SmartAleq]

Originally Posted by TVeblen

It's almost like being the first human eyes to see those enormous blind squid that glow in the dark.

_{Really, what possible evolutionary advantage could there be to a blind squid to glow in the dark? Nature is weird...}

[Muskrat Love]

Originally Posted by SmartAleq

Also, Edward is a rescuer who has animals (one in particular) who've given her all kinds of grief but she doesn't just dump them or kill them because they're inconvenient--she just pays for the stitches, fixes the window, bears with the neighbors, keeps working on socializing the critters to make them more attractive to a new owner and does her best to keep her animals fed even when she's down on cash and can barely feed them and herself. Someone blithely going on about how they killed a dog for convenience is going to push her buttons mightily--as it does mine for similar reasons.

We tried very hard to find a home for that dog. We are on waiting lists at several no-kill shelters and had been corresponding with a breed-specific rescue service. We were apologizing to neighbors for the damage that was being done and spending money repairing our landlords fence to keep the dog in for months, and we only put the dog down after it had knocked down an elderly lady. We were able to find homes for it's puppies because puppies are easy to find homes for - adult dogs that are not housetrained and destroy anything chewable they get their mouths on are not.

I posted here to get advice on finding the dog a home months before it was put down, and followed all the advice I was given. I do not think it would have been better, as Radical Edward said, to have called animal control as soon as the dog was spotted in the neighborhood. That would have just resulted in the dog dying a year earlier and in worse conditions than it did end up dying in. We live in Dallas, adult dogs very rarely get rescued from their shelters in the 48 hours they have before being killed, which is why we tried to find a no kill shelter that would take her.

[Muskrat Love]

Originally Posted by The Superhero

"Now that my request has been thoroughly and utterly shot down and openly mocked, I withdraw it."

aka

"You can't fire me, I quit!"

No, I assumed that it would be a relatively easy query. Now that I know that it is a laborous, time consuming thing, I'm not going to keep asking about it. Fenris provided an informational response to my request (instead of just saying "No, not going to do it") and that deserved an acknowledgement. I didn't want anyone to think I was still demanding something that was unreasonable to demand.