HoH 6: Day 1

[Sherlock Holmes]

Originally Posted by The Flash

Oh, hi, Bear! Glad to see you back.
A Town slip is a slip by a Townperson that looks scummy to other players.
I missed Steven Universe's vote on Doctor French, and was going by the last tally.

Point of order: I use "town slip" to mean a post that unconsciously reveals a Town point of view, in the same way that "scum slip" means the opposite. For example, I am thinking that Harry's case on Ladybug, which involved him forgetting that scum don't have daychat, may well have been such a slip. The logic being that scum wouldn't be likely to forget they don't have daychat.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

Atticus's slip was being confused about scum teams, correct? This has been interpreted as not understanding the rules, and that misunderstanding being more likely for town than scum. I don't understand the votes there. Is there more to the case against Atticus?

Ladybug has posted quite a bit about why she feels this slip was scummy. I'm not really convinced by her argument, but my own concern is precisely that Atticus made this "mistake" because he thought it would make him look Town.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Originally Posted by Doctor French

A second tier scum read. I can see the slip as just poor word choice. The follow-up was pretty bad for an exoskeleton. But this is the smartest vote for me to make at this point anyway so being a scum read of any tier is a bonus

I agree. That followup was not nearly chitinous enough to protect his inner organs.

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Originally Posted by Doctor French

This is a solid scum read for me despite the lack of content. I tried to ask an open ended question to get Elsa to share some thoughts. I guess these are thoughts but very surface level. This player isn't even trying.

Why are Scum more likely not to try than Town?

[Number 5]

Posts by Atticus Finch:

Post 24: Hasn't received PM Post 46: joke Post 208: Expresses suspicion of Mantis, mentions they are trying too hard to appear new and inexperience Post 209: Votes Mantis [This is the "game over" slip] POst 219: Follow-up in which he realizes Producers are scum, too [the second slip] Post 364: Explains his posts; doesn't see Producers as equal to scum Post 369: Asked by Ladybug why he saw three [Mendie, Mantis, Number 5] as producers and not scum; replies because they are red (in the role PM thread) and identified as villains Post 374: Reitierates earlier position Post 375: Admits case on Mantis is weak, calls it a throwaway vote; supports Number 5's claim Post 376: Replies to Ladybug again, claims being instinctively hunting for scum Post 377: Replies to Ladybug again, speculates how he might be a producer Post 379: Replies to Bogatyr's question with "What?" Post 381: joke

Of the five votes on him, Mendie's appears to have no merit aside from wanting to stir the pot. Otherwise I can't find fault in any of the other votes. Initially I considered his slip as a confused Town action, and I reconsider my analysis.

[Steven Universe]

Originally Posted by Sherlock Holmes

This post has no point to make and no reason to exist.

I'm .... sorry .... I guess?

[Doctor French]

To the multi quoter, I'll look at your post closer tomorrow on PC when it's easier to respond to. I know when someone does that and I hit reply and quote the whole post addressed to several people it's annoying.

You did ask what haven't I answered, and I think other than not walking Bog through my meme, I've addressed everything asked of me. If you think otherwise point it out, but I have a feeling it's just the same question from Bog repeated you're seeing unanswered.

Also, I took your question as being asked in a derisive or sarcastic manner, and I hope that was the intent. If not, tell me.

And I think you, it might have been someone else, said something about me making judgments without sharing thought process. I'm not sure I know what you mean by that, and depending on the circumstance I may or may not want to share thought process. I generally do I think so I'd ask that you point to examples where I have not.

And that question was for the multi quoter, sorry can't remember who that was, not anyone else.

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by Sherlock Holmes

Point of order: I use "town slip" to mean a post that unconsciously reveals a Town point of view, in the same way that "scum slip" means the opposite. For example, I am thinking that Harry's case on Ladybug, which involved him forgetting that scum don't have daychat, may well have been such a slip. The logic being that scum wouldn't be likely to forget they don't have daychat.

This is what I call a townslip also

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by Sherlock Holmes

I agree. That followup was not nearly chitinous enough to protect his inner organs.

What an unfortunate typo.

[Number 5]

Originally Posted by Number 5

[vote]Atticus Finch[vote]

I started composing this after post 382 and now we're up to 489* Dr French has added her vote to Atticus. It sounds like a rationalization to save her own skin



*that's the last time I take a call while composing my post

[Mendie Taoma]

Originally Posted by Sherlock Holmes

re: Mendel's post, can you remind me when Mantis said they were ""new"", and why it would be scummy if they turned out to have been lying?

Mu.

and

Mu.

As in, I reject the premise.

1. This was never directly stated.

2. ..... When does Snuggling become a wink to a fellow scum on Day 1? And, to be clear, would be along the lines of "Us Insects need to stay together" or whatever?

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by Bicycle Repair Man

Why are Scum more likely not to try than Town?

Surface level thoughts in a one off post tells me the player is more likely busy scum than anything else. I think a lurksack townie would at least throw a vote down after at least looking at the last VC. Waiting until end of day to vote is scummy.

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by Bogatyr

So explain it FFS

If you can of course

I'm asking you to please drop it. It is wholly unimportant.

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by Steven Universe

I'm .... sorry .... I guess?

He's right.

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by Mendie Taoma

Mu.



and



Mu.



As in, I reject the premise.



1. This was never directly stated.



2. ..... When does Snuggling become a wink to a fellow scum on Day 1? And, to be clear, would be along the lines of "Us Insects need to stay together" or whatever?

Why would they need to do that though?

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by Number 5

I started composing this after post 382 and now we're up to 489* Dr French has added her vote to Atticus. It sounds like a rationalization to save her own skin







*that's the last time I take a call while composing my post

In part it is. I'm not super comfortable about the vote.

[Number 5]

Originally Posted by Sherlock Holmes

You later clarified that you actually meant the exchange between Bog and Dr. French, right? I'm not sure what you saw there, but I did note that some interactions between those two in the first few pages seemed a bit forced. Not something I'm actively pursuing but wanted to get it out there in case I perish early.

Yes, it goes back to post 332, where Bogatyr asks Dr French if she wants to chat

When I quoted Ladybug in post 382 the board removed Bogatyr's quote

[Number 5]

Originally Posted by Doctor French

I'm not super comfortable about the vote.

This seems to be apropos to your conduct toDay

[Sherlock Holmes]

Atticus: I'm voting for him. I can kind of see the slip case, I suspect an attempted faked townslip as mentioned above...but entirely aside from that: he came into the game announcing that he has FOUND THE SCUM TEAM ON DAY ONE!! And then once he gets a little for it, he completely deflates and backtracks. Makes me think he never believed those scumreads in the first place.

Bicycle Repair Man: no clear signs of towniness so far. But do you work on pennyfarthings??

Bogatyr: seems townie overall though as I said some interactions with Dr. French have somewhat pinged me. Not going to worry about until Day 3 or 4.

Buzz: would evict

Clarice: I've been away for a minute, so this is a bit stale, but: could you please clarify your understanding of the arguments for and against the cop claiming, and explain why you feel the arguments in favor were mistaken? Because your blanket opposition to the idea seems more like someone looking for easy townie points than like someone thinking through the pros and cons.

Don Quixote: really the very lurkiest of the players. Every post was super early and referred to trouble getting his PM.

Dr. French: Not necessarily townreading, but not interested in evicting in the short term.

Elsa: "looking for patterns and...HOPING"

Counting flowers on the wall It don't bother me at all Smokin' cigarettes and watchin' Captain Kangaroo Don't tell me I've nothin' to do

Would evict.

The Flash: A few posts really pinged me but then there was that one that I liked. Back to null I guess.

Harry: possible townslip keeping him off the short-term eviction list for now

Hiro: maybe too villiproducery to be a producillian?

Ladybug: Definitely not worrying about for a few Days.

Mantis: Town lean.

Mendie: Still think he's scum.

Mulan: lurker, has had a couple decent posts but overall wouldn't mind evicting

#5: claimed Cop

Simon: I like the cut of his jib. Town lean.

Steven Universe: Scum lean, would evict.

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by Number 5

This seems to be apropos to your conduct toDay

Explain please.

[Number 5]

Originally Posted by Sherlock Holmes

Ladybug has posted quite a bit about why she feels this slip was scummy. I'm not really convinced by her argument, but my own concern is precisely that Atticus made this "mistake" because he thought it would make him look Town.

I'm thinking it may have been an actual "honest" slip, regrettably committed by scum

(I've been there, I've seen it happen, and it throws the entire scum dynamic on its head)

[Number 5]

Originally Posted by Doctor French

Explain please.

Cite: your entire posting history

[Mendie Taoma]

Originally Posted by Doctor French

Why would they need to do that though?

Why would they need to ask "Why hasn't the cop claimed" ?


But, that player isn't a new player.

[Hiro Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Doctor French

To the multi quoter, I'll look at your post closer tomorrow on PC when it's easier to respond to. I know when someone does that and I hit reply and quote the whole post addressed to several people it's annoying.

You did ask what haven't I answered, and I think other than not walking Bog through my meme, I've addressed everything asked of me. If you think otherwise point it out, but I have a feeling it's just the same question from Bog repeated you're seeing unanswered.

Also, I took your question as being asked in a derisive or sarcastic manner, and I hope that was the intent. If not, tell me.

And I think you, it might have been someone else, said something about me making judgments without sharing thought process. I'm not sure I know what you mean by that, and depending on the circumstance I may or may not want to share thought process. I generally do I think so I'd ask that you point to examples where I have not.

And that question was for the multi quoter, sorry can't remember who that was, not anyone else.

The multi-quoter was me. As far as "what haven't you answered"; I was referring to statements like "I can get behind this" (post 26), "One post in particular stands out as town telling." (post 66), and "I voted there for another purpose. Just as my vote for Sherlock remains there for certain purposes." (post 123).

You make vague statements, implying that there is some thought process behind them, but you decline to share that process. You have asked a lot of questions of a lot of players, but you haven't actually given us anything.

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by Number 5

I'm reading this exchange as some form of handshaking



It's not changing my leans as of yet, but I am disturbed by it. Maybe this is acceptable in mafia but it was frowned upon before (when used by Town)

It just occurred to me what you might be having a problem with here. When Bog said do you want to chat she (I'm pretty sure I know who) wanted to interact on the forum at the same time. Biotop does this frequently (or at least his alts do) when he gets home from work late at night. He'll ask if anyone is around and if they want to chat. Or sometimes he'll set up a chat with a player at a particular time. On the board through posting in this thread. No one is suggesting off board communication. I'm certain I can speak for Bog on that. That wouldn't just be frowned upon. That would be forbidden.

[Bogatyr]

Originally Posted by Doctor French

I'm asking you to please drop it. It is wholly unimportant.

Not an acceptable response. You spent too much time perpetuating it.

[Bogatyr]

Originally Posted by Number 5

Yes, it goes back to post 332, where Bogatyr asks Dr French if she wants to chat

When I quoted Ladybug in post 382 the board removed Bogatyr's quote

to catch it up

Originally Posted by Bogatyr

I see evidence that they are trying to draw an investigation and that spells GodFather to me.
Wanna Chat?

I wanted every player to chat with me about it GG
Yes the Doctor was one obviously

[Number 5]

Originally Posted by Doctor French

It just occurred to me what you might be having a problem with here. When Bog said do you want to chat she (I'm pretty sure I know who) wanted to interact on the forum at the same time. Biotop does this frequently (or at least his alts do) when he gets home from work late at night. He'll ask if anyone is around and if they want to chat. Or sometimes he'll set up a chat with a player at a particular time. On the board through posting in this thread. No one is suggesting off board communication. I'm certain I can speak for Bog on that. That wouldn't just be frowned upon. That would be forbidden.

Remarkably, this is the best post I've read of yours. It's clear and gets to the point.

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by Hiro Protagonist

The multi-quoter was me. As far as "what haven't you answered"; I was referring to statements like "I can get behind this" (post 26), "One post in particular stands out as town telling." (post 66), and "I voted there for another purpose. Just as my vote for Sherlock remains there for certain purposes." (post 123).



You make vague statements, implying that there is some thought process behind them, but you decline to share that process. You have asked a lot of questions of a lot of players, but you haven't actually given us anything.

Every one of my votes serves a purpose. I'll try to catch a scum sometimes by voting a townie person and seeing if anyone follows and for what reason they follow. Or I'll join a late stage wagon to see if anyone bails. I just like to see what effect my vote has a lot of times. I'm not going to share that kind of thought process during the game. I know you know this. We've danced this dance before. You always call me evasive. It's just the way you read me. I'm not paying any different this game than any other except for the memes at the beginning.

[Number 5]

Originally Posted by Bogatyr

to catch it up

I wanted every player to chat with me about it GG
Yes the Doctor was one obviously

As I understand, to "chat" means to take place in this game and not on a separate board or in a separate thread

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Originally Posted by Hiro Protagonist

snip


I'm quoting Doctor French here, but they are not the only person whose done this...

I don't like it when people unvote "whoever I was voting for". It suggests that they don't actually remember where their vote is...which suggests that they don't really care too much about their vote. And the only reason I can think of for not caring who I am voting for is if I don't really care if their Scum or not.

Why not? several people have explained why they would prefer the Doctor to be evicted; what reason do you have for thinking they should stay?

I don't like this argument. I think Scum probably don't casually post that they do not remember for whom they voted. That's the kind of thing Town truthfully does.

Town have a job: to find Scum. Scum have a job: to fool Town. If either type of player is not doing their job it looks the same. Players who make a "mistake" in their roles for either alignment appear Scummy. And Town more often make casual mistakes because they are less worried about appearances.

I do not see the argument for a Godfather playing to attract the Cop on Day 1. It could get them exiled if they are not careful. It most surely could get them vigged. And if a Cop does get a Town read on a Godfather then that Godfather may well become the bulls-eye target for the other team's Night kill. If the Scum Doctor protects their Godfather and he/she (the Godfather) does not die overNight, then the vig or other Scum team can quickly figure out what is going on.

There are nineteen players. Wouldn't it be better for any Godfather to just blend in and play normally? There is much room to blend in here. Also Scum have not been able to discuss strategy. Maybe Doctor French is a rogue Godfather who plays their own way. But really...?

And what is the case against Doctor French other than that he is a Cop-snaring Godfather? I do not see any.

Thus, Hiro, I'd rather Doctor French not die toDay.

[Number 5]

Originally Posted by Doctor French

Every one of my votes serves a purpose. I'll try to catch a scum sometimes by voting a townie person and seeing if anyone follows and for what reason they follow. Or I'll join a late stage wagon to see if anyone bails. I just like to see what effect my vote has a lot of times. I'm not going to share that kind of thought process during the game. I know you know this. We've danced this dance before. You always call me evasive. It's just the way you read me. I'm not paying any different this game than any other except for the memes at the beginning.

And now we're back to your usual self. This may be your idiosyncratic style and other players might be accustomed to it, but it's pinging me as non-Townish

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by Number 5

And now we're back to your usual self. This may be your idiosyncratic style and other players might be accustomed to it, but it's pinging me as non-Townish

Yeah that's not on me.

[Bicycle Repair Man]

And yes Sherlock Holmes, I can fix pennyfarthings.

It's all in a day's work for... Bicycle Repair Man.

[Steven Universe]

Originally Posted by Doctor French

Every one of my votes serves a purpose. I'll try to catch a scum sometimes by voting a townie person and seeing if anyone follows and for what reason they follow. Or I'll join a late stage wagon to see if anyone bails. I just like to see what effect my vote has a lot of times. I'm not going to share that kind of thought process during the game. I know you know this. We've danced this dance before. You always call me evasive. It's just the way you read me. I'm not paying any different this game than any other except for the memes at the beginning.

You two know each other? I must have missed it being mentioned earlier that you are both aware of each other's real personas.

Care to elaborate?

[Doctor French]

I know I posted some reads earlier but not sure which post.

Off the top of my head, I know I had Bog as town and that's strengthened. I think Bog is town forever.

Steven Universe scum
Elsa scum
Bicycle man, dunno
Simon, town
Atticus, likely scum
Harry, not sure bc of possible townslip
Mantis, if this is the larper, probably town
Mulan dunno
Mendie dunno
Quixote, dunno but favoring scum
Flash, likely town but tricky scum if I'm right
Number 5, going back and forth, maybe a town lean
Hiro, if I'm right always scum read him unfairly usually because he scum reads me I think so probably town
Clarice, benefit of doubt she's town
I think I'm missing 4

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by Steven Universe

You two know each other? I must have missed it being mentioned earlier that you are both aware of each other's real personas.



Care to elaborate?

I have a pretty good guess who Hiro is. If you read a little more charitably and less cynically, you'll see there's no way we can absolutely know who each other is.

[Bogatyr]

Originally Posted by Number 5

As I understand, to "chat" means to take place in this game and not on a separate board or in a separate thread

Correct

[Doctor French]

Sherlock -- latest posts have been kind of townie I think

[Doctor French]

Ladybug, thinking town although can't remember anything recent

[Steven Universe]

Originally Posted by Doctor French

I have a pretty good guess who Hiro is. If you read a little more charitably and less cynically, you'll see there's no way we can absolutely know who each other is.

Well if you're not absolutely sure, then maybe don't use the word "always" when saying "you always call me evasive." That implies you are certain who Hiro is.

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by Steven Universe

Well if you're not absolutely sure, then maybe don't use the word "always" when saying "you always call me evasive." That implies you are certain who Hiro is.

Not only do I reject your suggestion, I will always think you are scum this game. You have contributed nothing but a weird defense and now this distraction. You could have used this to dig in and try to sort me, but the best you can come up with is "you're using words wrong." You are scum and you should be launched or vigged.

[Bogatyr]

Harsh

Town thoughts 'I can't trust anyone but me'

Scum thoughts ' I must convey that I suspect everyone but me while pushing those that are not part of my team' although snuggling is a thing.

too random probably my mind is in a place

[Mendie Taoma]

Originally Posted by Doctor French

If you read a little more charitably and less cynically, you'll see there's no way we can absolutely know who each other is.

Yes. But then, we shouldn't be holding grudges, let alone into our socks.

Sorry, did you want to claim that?

[Harry Dresden]

Originally Posted by Mendie Taoma

Mu.

and

Mu.

As in, I reject the premise.

1. This was never directly stated.

2. ..... When does Snuggling become a wink to a fellow scum on Day 1? And, to be clear, would be along the lines of "Us Insects need to stay together" or whatever?

For whatever it's worth, that did happen.

Originally Posted by Mantis

I don’t know most of you, but I feel obligated to not vote for Ladybug today. We insect-themed, Asian superheroes need to stick together!

I don't see the benefit though.

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by Bogatyr

Harsh



Town thoughts 'I can't trust anyone but me'



Scum thoughts ' I must convey that I suspect everyone but me while pushing those that are not part of my team' although snuggling is a thing.



too random probably my mind is in a place

Yeah that's a little fragmented. I don't understand your scum thoughts section, both parts. Scum wouldn't be smart to suspect everyone else, as in you've got to have a few town reads as scum in this size game. And I really don't understand how you see pocketing in my post. Unless you're talking about others who scum read Steven Universe and I'm trying to appeal to them, but I think I was the first to scum read Steven, so I don't know that that works.

I guess it's not as fragmented as I thought. I talked my way through it.

[Doctor French]

Originally Posted by Mendie Taoma

Yes. But then, we shouldn't be holding grudges, let alone into our socks.



Sorry, did you want to claim that?

Explain please.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Part of me thinks that Doctor French is somehow town.
But there are a lot of things that they are saying (like not voting til EOD is scummy) that is driving me towards a vote. I think it’s a clash of play styles.

But a lot of other players have jumped on them…. Could one be a non-town player?

(Have to think out loud, and dial up some pressure)

[Doctor French]

Another thing on the thought process thing. You don't have to believe what I say. You have to believe that I believe what I say. My process shouldn't matter to you. When I'm reading your posts that's one of the things in looking at. Do you or did you believe what you were posting.

That's one reason it was easy to scum read me for the that's interesting and I agree with you meme. The posts weren't interesting. And that came across. Thus, scum read. Even when you're doing it intentionally.

[Bogatyr]

I an really trying not to tunnel but the responses I am reading - I , and others, have asked questions- don't lead me to change my vote